The ten most counter-productive/stupid assumptions in cycling

[Andre Jute]

We'll arrange them in order of dumbness (aka Krygowski Factor) later. For the time being let us just make a list:

1. Everybody wants to reduce the weight of bis bicycle. Nonsense. On a heavier bike you get more exercise in less time.

2. Cyclists are second-class road users who need to keep up with cars. Crap. Cyclists don't need licenses. Cars are on the road on sufferance and need to be licensed because they are fundamentally dangerous, as are their drivers, who also need licenses they are required to keep on them at all times to prove that they are permitted to operate a dangerous tol. It is time for cyclists to take back the roads that belong to them.

3. Lowest common denominator lamps for German hausfraus who cycle at 9mph are good enough for everyone on all roads. Fat German legislators who've never been on a bike in their lives say so, so it must be right. This is too ludicrous even to be sarcastic about. Included in this particular piece of idiotic illogic is the assumption that cyclists, being second class motorists, should be fobbed off with low beams so they don't irritate motorists even it the result is that this dumb attitude exposes the cyclist to greater danger than necessary.

4. If you can't keep up 20mph you shouldn't be on the road. Crap. See 2 above. This is a particular delusion of the roadies.

5. FILL IN YOUR PET CYCLING/CYCLISTS' STUPIDITY HERE

Andre Jute
Happy to provide a public service

[Andre Jute]

5. If we even discuss these matters, we give aid and comfort to the those claim cycling is dangerous. This is my candidate for the crowning dilly of them all, Krygowski Factor 10, which isn't surprising as it was invented by the crowning dilly himself, Krygo the "spokesman for cyclists".

6. Another Krygo Factor Ten Dumbosity: if you wear a helmet, you give aid and comfort to the people who claim cycling is dangerous.

The "logic" of 5 and 6 above is "'If you aren't with us, you're against us", which is clearly fascist, totalitarian logic, straight from the bunker of permanent losers.

7. FILL IN YOUR PET CYCLING/CYCLISTS' STUPIDITY HERE

Andre Jute
Providing a public health service

[Duane]

All good Andre but from a different perspective:

7: If you don't ride a bike exactly like me and use it for exactly the
same thing you must wear purple shorts and carry your bike around on you
car until you find a nice park to play in. You can't be a serious cyclist.

8: There is such a thing as "ordinary cycling" and it happens to be
exactly what I do. So if you don't do that, STFU.


> 9. FILL IN YOUR PET CYCLING/CYCLISTS' STUPIDITY HERE

[sms]

On 8/18/2013 11:28 PM, Andre Jute wrote:

> 3. Lowest common denominator lamps for German hausfraus who cycle at 9mph are good enough for everyone on all roads.

That's unfair since even German cyclists don't like those regulations
and the lamps that the regulations limit them to using. They find ways
around them.

At least in the U.S. an increasing number of people simply find ways
around laws that, while well-meaning, are often impractical. From
dishwasher detergent to toilets to shower heads, people just find ways
around dumb laws, and clearly they're doing it in regards to StVZO as well.

It's almost a game where legislators come up with stupid laws and
everyone else finds ways around them.

[T0m $herman]

9. Jute has a clue.

10. Scharf has a clue.

--
T0m $herm@n

[Wes Groleau]

On 08-19-2013 02:28, Andre Jute wrote:
> 1. Everybody wants to reduce the weight of bis bicycle. Nonsense. On a heavier bike you get more exercise in less time.

I am sure there are people who don't care about exercise. My bike is
for transportation, not for exercise, although using it gives me more
exercise than I need. On the other hand, though I would like it
lighter, I am distinctly uninterested in the sort of prices one pays
for lightness.

--
Wes Groleau

“Brigham Young agrees to confine himself to one woman,
if every member of Congress will do the same.”
— Weekly Republican, 1869

[James]

On 20/08/13 15:41, Wes Groleau wrote:
> On 08-19-2013 02:28, Andre Jute wrote:
>> 1. Everybody wants to reduce the weight of bis bicycle. Nonsense. On a
>> heavier bike you get more exercise in less time.
>
> I am sure there are people who don't care about exercise. My bike is
> for transportation, not for exercise, although using it gives me more
> exercise than I need. On the other hand, though I would like it
> lighter, I am distinctly uninterested in the sort of prices one pays
> for lightness.
>

It's all relative. Define lightness.

--
JS

[Wes Groleau]

On 08-20-2013 02:10, James wrote:
> It's all relative. Define lightness.

Better yet, use numbers instead of descriptors.

My bicycle weighs about twenty kilograms, and it would cost over a
thousand U.S. dollars to replace it, much more to get one lighter.

Three times for less than that, I've bought a car that lasted for a long
time. The cheapest one, $200, lasted a few years. In fact, it was
running quite well when I traded it in.


--
Wes Groleau

Nobody believes a theoretical analysis — except the guy who did it.
Everybody believes an experimental analysis — except the guy who did it.
— Unknown

[Andre Jute]

On Tuesday, August 20, 2013 6:41:51 AM UTC+1, Wes Groleau wrote:
> On 08-19-2013 02:28, Andre Jute wrote:
>
> > 1. Everybody wants to reduce the weight of bis bicycle. Nonsense. On a heavier bike you get more exercise in less time.
>
>
>
> I am sure there are people who don't care about exercise. My bike is
>
> for transportation, not for exercise, although using it gives me more
>
> exercise than I need. On the other hand, though I would like it
>
> lighter, I am distinctly uninterested in the sort of prices one pays
>
> for lightness.

I don't commute, and I don't race. I have a bicycle specifically for exercise. My time is also quite limited. I noticed the other day when I took off a pannier full of accumulated stuff that my heart rate didn't reach the desired plateau on a familiar hill. I put the pannier back on for the heath of my heart.

> “Brigham Young agrees to confine himself to one woman,
>
> if every member of Congress will do the same.”
>
> — Weekly Republican, 1869

LOL!

Andre Jute

[Andre Jute]

That's simple. We has put the components of the concept lightness on the table: they are the absence of mass, the cost of achieving that absence, and the resulting lack of longevity. Generally it can be stated taht: Lightness is an engineering quality related to reliability in proportion to the amount of money you have to spend on fancy materials, development and luck. If you have only a little money, lightness causes reliability to be negative. If you have much money to invest in lightness, reliability may at first seem normal, but will eventually acquire a negative trend.

Lightness is therefore an evil.

[(PeteCresswell)]

10) Special shoes are required for cycling.
--
Pete Cresswell

[John White]

In article <kuv28g$63h$1...@dont-email.me>,

Wes Groleau <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote:

> My bicycle weighs about twenty kilograms, and it would cost over a
> thousand U.S. dollars to replace it, much more to get one lighter.

Really? I haven't been paying attention to what sort of bike you have,
but that's quite a lot. Batteries included?

[John White]

In article <jccw-2D1A56.0...@news.eternal-september.org>,

Oops - I wasn't clear that I think the weight is quite a lot, not
(necessarily) the dollars.

[Duane]

Wouldn't want to carry it up a hill. But if you don't climb...

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 20 Aug 2013 16:10:28 +1000, James <james.e...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>It's all relative. Define lightness.

Lightness: The negative characteristic of a bicycle component or
system intended to fail immediately after the end of a race, ride, or
warranty.

Lightness is achieved by the judicious use of materials, marginal
designs, drilling, computer simulations, and advertising hype. Optimum
lightness is when the bicycle completely and totally self destructs at
the pre-calculated end time. Any surviving components are deemed to
be over designed and in need of redesign to add additional lightness.

While lightness does tend to be proportional to mass (weight), the
more correct units of measure are the amounts of time or distance
traveled between the end of the race, ride, or warranty, and the first
component failure. The ideal lightness value of zero is when
something fails immediately after crossing the finish line, or when
the component warranty expires. Lightness values of 1 hour or 1 km
are considered quite good. Lightness values of several years or
thousands of km are considered highly inferior and in desperate need
of redesign to increase lightness.

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 18 Aug 2013 23:28:03 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
<fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>5. FILL IN YOUR PET CYCLING/CYCLISTS' STUPIDITY HERE

Only one stupidity?

6. Cycling is relaxing. Perhaps that's true if you're the only
bicycle on the road. But, if you share the road with everything else
that moves, it tends to be more stressful.

7. Bicycles are fully optimized and cannot be improved. Bicycles
have been around in its present from since the late 19th century.
Every possible combination of geometry, propulsion, construction, and
design have been tried and either accepted or rejected. The only room
for additional progress is in better materials and optimization for
specific applications.

8. For every gram removed to improve lightness, at least 10 grams are
added to the bicycle lock.

9. The most important characteristic of a bicycle is its color. The
best colors seem to be those patterned after human vomit. The
connection currently escapes me.

10. Bicycles use standardized and interchangeable components. That
may have been true, but Shimano is doing it's best to demonstrate
otherwise with incompatible component groups.

11. Suspension springs and shocks are useful for bicycle acrobatics
and if you only ride downhill on trails or stairs. They also look
good in the bike shop window to attract customers. Otherwise, they
just add weight.

12. Water bottles are full of everything imaginable, except water. I
use my bottles for tissue paper, small parts, loose change, cell
phone, batteries, etc. If I want water, I find a water fountain (or
water hose).

13. The idea bicycling posture is in an aerodynamic crouch. Well, at
above about 15 km/hr, that makes sense because the wind resistance is
significant. However, at fairly low recreational riding speeds, the
cramped posture causes un-necessary back pains, etc. If you ride
mostly slowly, convert the bicycle to a "comfort bike" with a more
upright posture.

14. Until now, there was no good reason to ride with hands on the
handlebars. At best, one could fold one's hands across the chest or
on top of one's head. However, technical progress has made no-hands
riding practice a necessity. Texting while riding may be officially
frowned up, it's a useful skill that is handy for emergencies, such as
being late for a capuchino at the coffee shop.

[sms]

On 8/20/2013 8:41 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

> 14. Until now, there was no good reason to ride with hands on the
> handlebars. At best, one could fold one's hands across the chest or
> on top of one's head. However, technical progress has made no-hands
> riding practice a necessity. Texting while riding may be officially
> frowned up, it's a useful skill that is handy for emergencies, such as
> being late for a capuchino at the coffee shop.

That's just ridiculous. With a handlebar mounted cup holder and a
leakproof cup, it's better just to enjoy that coffee beverage while riding.

[Frank Krygowski]

On Tuesday, August 20, 2013 10:55:21 AM UTC-4, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
> Lightness is achieved by the judicious use of materials, marginal
>
> designs, drilling, computer simulations, and advertising hype. Optimum
>
> lightness is when the bicycle completely and totally self destructs at
>
> the pre-calculated end time. Any surviving components are deemed to
>
> be over designed and in need of redesign to add additional lightness.

Oliver Wendell Holmes nailed that concept back in the 1800s. See
http://holyjoe.org/poetry/holmes1.htm

- Frank Krygowski

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 20 Aug 2013 09:41:23 -0700, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

You forgot the link:
<http://bicyclecoffeesystems.com>

That depends on the beverage. Coffee is probably acceptable for
no-hands riding, but carbonated soda will go volcanic. I also prefer
to skim the cream off the top of my hot chocolate before consuming the
liquid. It just doesn't taste right when mixed. My tea infusion goes
much to quickly when agitated. Also, I prefer to drink my acidic and
hot beverages from glass containers. Glass doesn't add that
biphenol-A taste and is much easier to clean. However, I haven't
found an affordable glass water bottle yet. Stainless steel works,
but must be insulated to keep from burning my hands. The lack of
volumetric capacity and the occasional metallic taste, make stainless
a dubious proposition.

This is a possibility:
<http://www.bottlesupglass.com>
2.7" dia for $27. 3.0" dia for $30.
The de facto standard water bottle is 3.0" diameter.
However, I don't like the cap. It's too crude, not splash proof,
doesn't have a siphon/straw option, and looks flimsy. It can probably
be opened with one hand, but would be difficult to close with one
hand. It's probably a step forward for bicycle mobile culinary
adventure, but could benefit from some improvements.

Presumably, you're installed an automotive style cup holder on your
handlebars, so that adding some of the usual coffee additives can be
done easily. Having both hands available would be a big improvement
for such things as tearing open the sugar bag. However, you plan to
do the bicycle mobile barista thing in style, I suspect that zero
gravity space implements, which are designed to be splash and leak
proof, operated wearing gloves, orientation insensitive, and idiot
proof, might be useful.

[sms]

Capacity isn't an issue, and I haven't ever had a problem with a
metallic taste from stainless steel, at least with coffee. Maybe with
tea it's more of an issue.

You'll have to order from Australia:
<http://www.bingssafesolutions.com.au/770ml-Thermos-Insulated-water-Bottle-p23.html>

> Presumably, you're installed an automotive style cup holder on your
> handlebars, so that adding some of the usual coffee additives can be
> done easily.

No, just a bicycle style cup holder.

> Having both hands available would be a big improvement
> for such things as tearing open the sugar bag. However, you plan to
> do the bicycle mobile barista thing in style, I suspect that zero
> gravity space implements, which are designed to be splash and leak
> proof, operated wearing gloves, orientation insensitive, and idiot
> proof, might be useful.

What I haven't figured out yet is brewing on the bicycle. Sadly, a 3W
dynamo won't boil water, or at least not much water. I suppose that a
propane stove could be used.

[James]

On 20/08/13 16:27, Wes Groleau wrote:
> On 08-20-2013 02:10, James wrote:
>> It's all relative. Define lightness.
>
> Better yet, use numbers instead of descriptors.
>
> My bicycle weighs about twenty kilograms, and it would cost over a
> thousand U.S. dollars to replace it, much more to get one lighter.
>

A 20 kg bike, eh. Does it have an electric motor and batteries?

Can you post a picture to flickr or something and send a link?

Is it perhaps a bullitt?

--
JS

[Jay Beattie]

http://tinyurl.com/mb22lxe

-- Jay Beattie.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 20 Aug 2013 18:15:20 -0700 (PDT), Jay Beattie
<jbea...@lindsayhart.com> wrote:

>http://tinyurl.com/mb22lxe
>-- Jay Beattie.

More coffee bicycles:
<http://www.flickr.com/photos/portlandpedalworks/sets/72157633197559214/>
<http://www.flickr.com/photos/portlandpedalworks/sets/>
Maybe add a "cow catcher" to clear the lane ahead?

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 20 Aug 2013 12:12:49 -0700, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

>Capacity isn't an issue, and I haven't ever had a problem with a
>metallic taste from stainless steel, at least with coffee. Maybe with
>tea it's more of an issue.

That's because you don't mix your coffee with battery acid, or add a
full squeezed lemon to your tea.

>You'll have to order from Australia:
><http://www.bingssafesolutions.com.au/770ml-Thermos-Insulated-water-Bottle-p23.html>

Are thermos bottles (Dewar flasks) strong enough to survive on a
bicycle? I've ended up with several glass and vacuum thermos
containers full of broken glass when going camping. Lots to choose
from:
<https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=glass+thermos+bottle>
Ah... made for tea:
<http://www.adoctorandanurse.com/tea-bottle-thermos/>
<http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000SZNWD4>

>> Presumably, you're installed an automotive style cup holder on your
>> handlebars, so that adding some of the usual coffee additives can be
>> done easily.
>
>No, just a bicycle style cup holder.

Ok, that works. Anything that produces a stable platform for mixing
and stirring should work. Gyro stabilized?

>What I haven't figured out yet is brewing on the bicycle. Sadly, a 3W
>dynamo won't boil water, or at least not much water. I suppose that a
>propane stove could be used.

Propane will probably be the most practical. Coleman and others have
propane powered coffee makers for the camping market (in both glass
and metal):
<http://www.coleman.com/product/2000008430>
<http://www.walmart.com/ip/Coleman-Portable-Propane-Coffee-Maker/16472404>
However, you could also throw some kindling into a bowl, start a fire,
and use that to boil the water. I used to have a stainless barbeque
that which clamps onto the vessel rail.

[Sir Ridesalot]

I saw a lot of tricycles there but not many in any Bi Cycles. VBG LOL ;<)

Cheers

[Wes Groleau]

I never claimed it is light. In fact, I explicitly said lighter would
be nice. But the price of lighter certainly is NOT nice.

As for the hills, I guess I've gotten used to them. But I certainly
don't _carry_ it up hill!

--
Wes Groleau

Words of the Wild Wes
http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/WWW

[Wes Groleau]

On 08-20-2013 03:37, Andre Jute wrote:
> I don't commute, and I don't race. I have a bicycle specifically for exercise. My time is also quite limited. I noticed the other day when I took off a pannier full of accumulated stuff that my heart rate didn't reach the desired plateau on a familiar hill. I put the pannier back on for the heath of my heart.

It's not that my time is limited--I have the same number of hours per
day that you do. It's more that my activities are not sufficiently
limited. :-)

Consequently, I feel that I don't have time for exercise beyond the
side-effects of getting from place to place. Since the cardiologist
says that part of me is better than most my age and my rest pulse can
get below fifty, I figure said side-effects are adequate.

[Wes Groleau]

On 08-20-2013 11:41, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> 6. Cycling is relaxing. Perhaps that's true if you're the only
> bicycle on the road. But, if you share the road with everything else
> that moves, it tends to be more stressful.

I will deny both extremes. I get neither stress nor relaxation
from it. I just get to where I want to go.

[Duane]

Lol. No, carrying it up the hill is an expression meaning that you have to
push the extra weight. I was joking. I have people in my group with some
heavy steel bikes that climb better than I do.

--
duane

[Duane]

Wes Groleau <Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote:
> On 08-20-2013 11:41, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> 6. Cycling is relaxing. Perhaps that's true if you're the only
>> bicycle on the road. But, if you share the road with everything else
>> that moves, it tends to be more stressful.
>
> I will deny both extremes. I get neither stress nor relaxation
> from it. I just get to where I want to go.

I would say the opposite. One reason for commuting is that it's a lot less
more relaxing after work than sitting in a traffic jam. Except for when
encountering lunatic drivers. So I think it can be both.

--
duane

[Joy Beeson]

On Tue, 20 Aug 2013 09:04:24 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid>
wrote:

> 10) Special shoes are required for cycling.

Well, seeing as I don't wear shoes at all when I'm not cycling . . .

I have special shoes for the country and change into my other special
shoes at the city limits. My last "long" ride was spoiled because I
forgot my country shoes. Still was out for five or six hours, but
spent some of it walking around, eating supper twice, eating shaved
ice, buying milk, etc.


--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://www.debeeson.net/joy/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 20 Aug 2013 19:52:21 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
<i_am_cyc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:

>I saw a lot of tricycles there but not many in any Bi Cycles. VBG LOL ;<)

If two wheels are good, 3 wheels must be better. However, for the
ultimate, there's 4 wheels (quadricycle):
<https://www.google.com/search?q=quadricycle&tbm=isch>
And yes, there are 5+ wheel machines (pentacycle, hexacycle,
octocycle):
<https://www.google.com/search?q=pentacycle&tbm=isch>

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 21 Aug 2013 00:10:05 -0400, Wes Groleau
<Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote:

>On 08-20-2013 11:41, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> 6. Cycling is relaxing. Perhaps that's true if you're the only
>> bicycle on the road. But, if you share the road with everything else
>> that moves, it tends to be more stressful.
>
>I will deny both extremes. I get neither stress nor relaxation
>from it. I just get to where I want to go.

Like the law of conservation of energy, I believe in the law of
conservation of stress. The amount of stress in the universe is
constant. I you relieve yourself of stress by riding, you are
transferring your excess stress to the frustrated automobile drivers
following behind you. If you are accumulating additional stress, you
are transferring surplus stress from drivers trying to kill you.

Fortunately, you seem to have reached a stable and hopefully optimum
stress level since you arrive with your stress level unchanged. I
presume this is done by varying route to deliver equal levels of
stress accumulation and relief.

[Dan O]

On Wednesday, August 21, 2013 3:18:56 AM UTC-7, Duane wrote:

I get a healthy dose of a psychologically nutritious mixture of
experiences in my regular commuting. There are miles of countryside
with no other traffic in earshot, but there is a regular dose of rush
hour city road warfare (and lots of stuff somewhere in between).

The former can be perfect for:

<http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200810/the-art-now-six-steps-living-in-the-moment>

The latter is not all bad, though. Stress is not all bad. Getting
amped up to rock rush hour traffic "exercises" stress response, and -
especially in the course of extended physical exertion - I believe,
can actually *relieve* tension in the long run.

The relaxing is deeper when you have something to relax from, the
stress of taking the bull by the horns is pure, and you get stuff
out of your system. It's cathartic.

(I might not feel the same if it weren't for all those wonderful
zen hours talking to the cows as I cycle past :-)

(Look there! I used the word "cycle". Here it fits - not as a
word for the act of riding a bicycle, but the act of being in a
world that keeps turning.)

[Dan O]

On Tuesday, August 20, 2013 12:12:49 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:

<snip>

[coffee]

>
> What I haven't figured out yet is brewing on the bicycle. Sadly, a 3W
> dynamo won't boil water, or at least not much water. I suppose that a
> propane stove could be used.

Hot drinks back at the lodge. You're never far from a spider...
or a Starbucks.

I carry a little three-pack of Starbucks Via instant coffee in my
messenger bag - the little cardboard holder stiffens the bag pocket
and helps (maybe) keep Mojo Bars in there from getting smooshed.

[thirty-six]

On Monday, 19 August 2013 07:28:03 UTC+1, Andre Jute wrote:

> 5. FILL IN YOUR PET CYCLING/CYCLISTS' STUPIDITY HERE
>
>
>

> Andre Jute
>
> Happy to provide a public service

LOL

[Andre Jute]

Di you mention the C word? You'll be tarred and feathered!

We don't say "Cardiologist" here. You can accuse RBT poster of impeccably standing of shaving their legs, and nobody notices. But if you accuse them of knoving a cardiologist...

Andre Jute

[Wes Groleau]

On 08-21-2013 13:47, Andre Jute wrote:
> We don't say "Cardiologist" here. You can accuse RBT poster of impeccably standing of shaving their legs, and nobody notices. But if you accuse them of knoving a cardiologist...

"I'm gonna say it again--you're no good..." oops, wrong song

I have a thyroid condition which somehow caused chest pains.
So until we figured that out, I had all sorts of tests and procedures
with the _____________ always ending up puzzled because they couldn't
find anything.

--
Wes Groleau

“Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity.
But I'm not so sure about the universe.”
— Albert Einstein

[Jay Beattie]

On Wednesday, August 21, 2013 9:21:26 AM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Aug 2013 19:52:21 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
>
> <i_am_cyc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
>
>
>
> >I saw a lot of tricycles there but not many in any Bi Cycles. VBG LOL ;<)
>
>
>
> If two wheels are good, 3 wheels must be better. However, for the
>
> ultimate, there's 4 wheels (quadricycle):
>
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=quadricycle&tbm=isch>
>
> And yes, there are 5+ wheel machines (pentacycle, hexacycle,
>
> octocycle):
>
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=pentacycle&tbm=isch>

Here is a two-wheeler: http://trailheadcoffeeroasters.com/

http://www.dearcoffeeiloveyou.com/trailhead-coffee-cruiser/

The guy who owns the company is a friend of a friend who I used to ride with before he got busy with the shop -- among other things. He makes a spectacular espresso blend and was the guy who got me interested in home brew espresso -- another expensive hobby.

-- Jay Beattie.

[Wes Groleau]

On 08-21-2013 12:29, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> Fortunately, you seem to have reached a stable and hopefully optimum
> stress level since you arrive with your stress level unchanged. I
> presume this is done by varying route to deliver equal levels of
> stress accumulation and relief.

It's more that I don't accumulate stress, therefore there's none to be
relieved. Mostly. Once in a great while I encounter a motorist who's
enough of an @$$4073 to affect me, but I just cuss 'em out and quickly
forget about 'em.

--
Wes Groleau

If you put garbage in a computer nothing comes out but garbage.
But this garbage, having passed through a very expensive machine,
is somehow ennobled and none dare criticize it.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 21 Aug 2013 10:47:30 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
<fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>We don't say "Cardiologist" here. You can accuse RBT poster of
>impeccably standing of shaving their legs, and nobody notices.
>But if you accuse them of knoving a cardiologist...
>
>Andre Jute

One minor benefit of visiting the cardiologist is that I'm able to use
one of my favorite retorts:
"I have no heart. It's been bypassed".
I had my inside plumbing rebuilt in 2002.
<http://www.LearnByDestroying.com/crud/surgery.txt>

[Andre Jute]

On Thursday, August 22, 2013 7:01:27 AM UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Aug 2013 10:47:30 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
>
> <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >We don't say "Cardiologist" here. You can accuse RBT poster of
>
> >impeccably standing of shaving their legs, and nobody notices.
>
> >But if you accuse them of knoving a cardiologist...
>
> >
>
> >Andre Jute
>
>
>
> One minor benefit of visiting the cardiologist is that I'm able to use
>
> one of my favorite retorts:
>
> "I have no heart. It's been bypassed".
>
> I had my inside plumbing rebuilt in 2002.
>
> <http://www.LearnByDestroying.com/crud/surgery.txt>

Er, thanks, Jeff.

[Andre Jute]

Laughter is a form of catharsis too.


19. Cycling is a serious business. Proper cyclists appear grim at all times. Proper cyclists are so wrapped up in their seriousness, they don't greet anyone or achnowledge their existence in any way.

Andre Jute

[davethedave]

http://www.thecoffeebrewers.com/asglal1onlee.html



--
davethedave

[davethedave]

Bullits with full regalia of base, sides and child seat come in at around
30 + kg.

The child seat is a weighty thing indeed.
--
davethedave

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Joy Beeson:

>> 10) Special shoes are required for cycling.
>
>Well, seeing as I don't wear shoes at all when I'm not cycling . . .
>
>I have special shoes for the country and change into my other special
>shoes at the city limits. My last "long" ride was spoiled because I
>forgot my country shoes. Still was out for five or six hours, but
>spent some of it walking around, eating supper twice, eating shaved
>ice, buying milk, etc.

Poor wording on my part.

SHB: 10) Cycling-specific shoes are required for cycling.

I've got shoes that are uncomfortable for cycling and shoes
that are comfortable for cycling.... but they aren't
cycling-specific. My guess is that a sufficiently-rigid
sole is a major ingredient in the shoes that work.
--
Pete Cresswell

[Dan]

And I still ride barefoot a lot and have a good time doing it;
but bike specific shoes have enhanced my bicycling experience
phenomenally - possibly more than any other single thing. So
this is not a downside AFAIC (and not required in any case).

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 21 Aug 2013 23:56:39 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
<fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>> One minor benefit of visiting the cardiologist is that I'm able to use
>> one of my favorite retorts:
>> "I have no heart. It's been bypassed".
>> I had my inside plumbing rebuilt in 2002.
>> <http://www.LearnByDestroying.com/crud/surgery.txt>

>Er, thanks, Jeff.

Y'er conditionally welcome. I highly recommend the procedure. For
several years prior to having the bypass surgery, I was feeling
lethargic, lacking in energy, and ran out of breath far too easily. A
sprint through traffic would end with me gasping for breath.
Additional exercise seemed to make things worse, not better. After I
recovered from the surgery and I regained my strength, I was able to
do all the normal physical things, without premature exhaustion. It
was like rolling back the clock 10-15 years.

I'm not suggesting that you volunteer for a heart bypass operation to
gain a cycling performance boost. However, if medical circumstance
seem to warrant such surgery, I suggest that you consider the medical
benefits as a good thing. Your results may vary. See your
cardiologist for details and pricing information.

[AMuzi]

Indeed.

I certainly like silk-wool blend suits, skinny ties and real
leather dress shoes[1] but I also like wool jerseys, lycra
jerseys, wool shorts, lycra shorts and of course my SiDis,
all on different days for different activities.

Speaking of which, my Russian type dead rabbit hat is a
wonderful thing for cycling half the year, just not in August.

[1]used clothing from dead people is a wonderful, boundless
and surprisingly cheap resource.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[datakoll]

5. eeeyahhahhahhahhah hhhhh


dgf nfndh7 hfhy thryhh dgdhs !

[Andre Jute]

On Thursday, August 22, 2013 8:00:32 AM UTC+1, Andre Jute wrote:

> Laughter is a form of catharsis too.
>
> 19. Cycling is a serious business. Proper cyclists appear grim at all times. Proper cyclists are so wrapped up in their seriousness, they don't greet anyone or achnowledge their existence in any way.

A note from a lurker reminds me that there's nothing new in this, that even Jobst Brandt, a pretty serious engineer, was irritated by the social awkwardness of too many cyclists, in particular their surliness about greetings. Yeah, I too remember Jobst making a point of it on RBT a few years ago.

Andre Jute

[John B.]

Strange. Over here you can pretty well depend on every "Local"
"recreational" rider you meet either waving or shouting "hello".
("hello" being a term used to answer telephones or in addressing
foreigners :-)

"Transportational" riders seldom speak or wave. One assumes that as
they are simply going to the market as they have for the past 40 years
or so that they don't consider themselves as part of a brotherhood, or
perhaps it is that they haven't yet been introduced :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[datakoll]

TRY WIDER BARS N BREATHING EXERCISES

this is too serious, a wake.

[datakoll]

19. new exotic wheels produce grimer serious riders. I wonder if the cost/satisfaction ratio is less than expected.

[Wes Groleau]

On 08-22-2013 19:09, Andre Jute wrote:
> A note from a lurker reminds me that there's nothing new in this, that even Jobst Brandt, a pretty serious engineer, was irritated by the social awkwardness of too many cyclists, in particular their surliness about greetings. Yeah, I too remember Jobst making a point of it on RBT a few years ago.

A prefer the other kind of stereotyping.

--
Wes Groleau

“To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation
of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical.”
— Thomas Jefferson

[Wes Groleau]

On 08-22-2013 21:05, John B. wrote:
> "Transportational" riders seldom speak or wave. One assumes that as
> they are simply going to the market as they have for the past 40 years

I wave, but I'm both too lazy and too introverted to yell across the
street at someone. (see below)

--
Wes Groleau

He that is good for making excuses, is seldom good for anything else.
— Benjamin Franklin

[sms]

I recall seeing Jobst riding in the Santa Cruz mountains. He went by
pretty fast and someone in the group I was in said "there goes Jobst" or
something like that. There was no opportunity to greet him.

[John B.]

On Thu, 22 Aug 2013 22:55:47 -0400, Wes Groleau
<Grolea...@FreeShell.org> wrote:

>On 08-22-2013 21:05, John B. wrote:
>> "Transportational" riders seldom speak or wave. One assumes that as
>> they are simply going to the market as they have for the past 40 years
>
>I wave, but I'm both too lazy and too introverted to yell across the
>street at someone. (see below)

They usually wave from across the road and say "hello" as they pass

[Duane]

datakoll <data...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> 19. new exotic wheels produce grimer serious riders. I wonder if the
> cost/satisfaction ratio is less than expected.

Maybe there's a crosswind.
--
duane

[datakoll]

> Maybe there's a crosswind.

oo o o o o . ..

common prob. large quantity in middle wants up but cannuh go so frustrated aggressive.

reason for usually lack of ability for understanding probs.

diminshing returns.

how does the Simon song go ?

when Jute dies, suggest place Jute on raft, set afire with lancia gas n put him on a falling tide.

[Duane]

On 8/23/2013 8:25 AM, datakoll wrote:
>
>> Maybe there's a crosswind.
>
> oo o o o o . ..
>
> common prob. large quantity in middle wants up but cannuh go so frustrated aggressive.
>
> reason for usually lack of ability for understanding probs.
>
> diminshing returns.

Have a friend that does TTs. Came with me on a climb but forget to take
off his aero wheels from the TT the night before. Going down a hill he
startled me by braking. His bike was turning into a sail with the
strong crosswinds.

Me, being a poor boy I have to pick the one that works best in all cases
so I do TTs without aero. Not going to win them anyway. For me it's
about charting my own improvement.

> how does the Simon song go ?
>
> when Jute dies, suggest place Jute on raft, set afire with lancia gas n put him on a falling tide.
>

Not sure what this has to do with Andre...

[Jay Beattie]

Jobst didn't complaint that people were not social but that they spoke of rides as "grueling" or epic or turned everything in to great personal efforts or traumas.

-- Jay Beattie.

[sms]

On 8/23/2013 7:32 AM, Jay Beattie wrote:

<snip>

> Jobst didn't complaint that people were not social but that they spoke of rides as "grueling" or epic or turned everything in to great personal efforts or traumas.

I still consider Tunitas Creek Road as grueling. Repeating to myself
over and over "I will not walk, I will not walk. But at the top, I would
say, "that was easy."

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per John B.:

>"Transportational" riders seldom speak or wave. One assumes that as
>they are simply going to the market as they have for the past 40 years
>or so that they don't consider themselves as part of a brotherhood, or
>perhaps it is that they haven't yet been introduced :-)

I have mixed feelings every time some merchant (who saw me ride up on a
bike) says something like "Nice day for a bike ride!" or "Have a nice
ride."

--
Pete Cresswell

[Duane]

Saturday's ride in the Laurentians (Morin Heights) was certainly
grueling. Several places where I had that same discussion about not
walking. There was not really a top as there were several hills. But
at the end of the ride, I didn't say that was easy. I did say that I
was happy to have done it and it wasn't as bad as I thought.

Not every ride is grueling but some days...

[Jay Beattie]

Some rides are clearly grueling. Jobst just had this thing about pretenders. He was well known in the '70s for flogging national class racers through the Santa Cruz mountains -- racers who dropped me like a lead brick. Jobst knew grueling, but he didn't like to hear recreational riders puffing about riding a century or completing a climb he could do on a fixed gear (e.g. Mt. Hamilton). It was a snobby reaction, but then again, his ride reports did focus on the beauty or novelty of a climb and not it's "grueling-ness." He did think riding should be for enjoyment, but he also liked the whole "hard man" persona. Think about going on a ride that is well within your ability with some recreational riders who are huffing and puffing and straining to get to the top. Then listening to them talk about the epic climb, personal pain and suffering, difficulty, etc. Meanwhile, you're thinking, hey, why are these guys complaining. The lupines were out, I saw a deer. It was a beautiful day. Totally different perspectives.

-- Jay Beattie.

[Duane]

I get to do that every year when I do the group leader volunteer for the
club. Usually take out a group at a level below my average so I can
show them how we deal with group riding. Personally, I like to see them
talking about how they were able to do the ride that they found hard.
It means they like it and will continue. Dissing someone having trouble
on a ride I can easily do is snobbish. To me pretenders are the ones
thinking that they can handle things and then finding out that they
can't when you have to pull their butts back through the 50k headwinds.
And then they talk about how it wasn't that bad. lol.

[Jay Beattie]

Totally O.T. regarding grueling rides. Last week, my ride was in a car driving up Big Cottonwood Canyon outside of Salt Lake City. My wife and I were in town, dropping my son off at the University of Utah. Anyway, the canyon is a 15 mile Sierra-like climb averaging 7-8% with some 10-15% jumps. It's about 4,500 foot elevation gain with a peak elevation just under 9,000, IIRC. There were lots of cyclists, and I wanted to be one of them . . . but, I was doing the driving thing. The grueling part is that two or three of the cyclists were hand-cycling. Then there were two groups of cross-x skiers (one male and one female) who were double poling UP the canyon on roller skis. Incroyable. I'm taking my bike the next time and will undoubtedly get slaughtered by the elevation. Coming from sea level is tough, let alone 15 miles of pretty continuous climbing.

-- Jay Beattie.

[datakoll]

VERY human....prob Terran.

people, esp people during n after exhaustive exercise are not articulate nor math capable. Divide riders into intellectual and not, add ex...that's what you here.

Myself, a preppie bohemian from the NE am submerged in Florida culture...as Terkel: 'a plugged up toliet.' Hear majority life's experience is high school n mil service. That's it. The ongoing conversation concerns how people's assholes smell.

Whatever riders are doing is what concerns them.. ..man against himself, vs Lance et al as a Mitty Challenge....so what do you talk abt ?

As Beattie, what percentage aesthetic arty types group ride ? As JB, prob alone.

JB OD'd.

[datakoll]

Chapter 5

LIFE WITHOUT JUNIOR

[datakoll]

one I'd enjoy is the Tour of Crater Lake.

not GRUELING.

ALL YAWL do is talk abt climbing. Yawl nuts.

[Wes Groleau]

Oh. Well, I wouldn't know, as I've never had anyone pass me.
And I've almost never passed anyone else.

--
Wes Groleau

“There are more people worthy of blame
than there is blame to go around."

[Duane]

I'm not gonna disagree wit dat.
--
duane

[Duane]

Sounds gruelling all right. . My ride in the Laurentians was a bit over
1400 meters total ascent. 1 cat 4 and 5 cat 5 hills. The rest all rollers.
Around 100k distance. Tough ride for me as I'm not a big climber though
I'm improving. What I remember most was the crummy roads on the descents.
But it was a good feeling to finish it.

I'm signed up for a race in September called the Defi Velo Mag that is 1800
meter ascent and 105 k. Intention is to force myself to learn how to
climb. But if I see guys roller skiing up those hills I will scream. Lol.



--
duane

[Dan]

For me it's about 50/50. Roughly and variably about half
of the bicyclists I encounter - and I'm not talking about
like Portland or some such where you see a bicyclist every
second or so; I'm talking about riding alone amongst motor
traffic like the last surviving transportation bicyclist,
when you see another coming your way and feel a wave of
brotherhood and connection and community coming on - roughly
half respond in some sort of kind to my wave or nod or maybe
just smile.

Hmm... in thinking about it, seems not many beat me to the
overture.

The most satisfying are when you see each other coming, and
perceive that same feeling in each other and both know the
smile and wave are coming and then there it is and then
you've passed and both continue on feeling less alone.

It doesn't really bother me too much if they don't; it just
makes me wonder what they're wrapped up in.

It's kind of the same, but different, walking on the sidewalk.
Here in Mayberry it's completely natural to smile and greet
*anybody* you meet - not even forced or phony or contrived.
In the city where I work, though, people mostly just walk by
without any acknowledgment - like you were a ghost (unless they
want to bum a cigarette). Different because I don't see the
same distinction between locales on my bike - it's just an
interpersonal crapshoot wherever we are. In fact, in the city
it almost seems like people are *more* glad to find a fellow.
Maybe that "amongst motor traffic" thing.

[Andre Jute]

That's probably just envy speaking, Pete. I remember walking off a mountain once and being stopped in the carpark no fewer than four times by people who climbed out of their comfortable cars to tell me that one day they too would climb that mountain in all weathers. (If they did, they would die on it; they were sitting thirty paces from the wall with the plaques to the climbers who hadn't made it.) I was cold and wet and miserable and just wanted dry clothes and a hot drink and a pub with a fire, and was hard put to be gracious to them, though I managed, just.

Andre Jute

[Dan]

Duane <sp...@flarn.com> writes:

> datakoll <data...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> one I'd enjoy is the Tour of Crater Lake.
>>

You and me both.

>> not GRUELING.
>>

Except I would want to ride up there first (and
then down :-)

>> ALL YAWL do is talk abt climbing. Yawl nuts.
>
> I'm not gonna disagree wit dat.

I never would, either. (+1)

[Andre Jute]

On Saturday, August 24, 2013 1:30:09 AM UTC+1, Dan wrote:

> It's kind of the same, but different, walking on the sidewalk.
>
> Here in Mayberry it's completely natural to smile and greet
>
> *anybody* you meet - not even forced or phony or contrived.
>
> In the city where I work, though, people mostly just walk by
>
> without any acknowledgment - like you were a ghost (unless they
>
> want to bum a cigarette). Different because I don't see the
>
> same distinction between locales on my bike - it's just an
>
> interpersonal crapshoot wherever we are. In fact, in the city
>
> it almost seems like people are *more* glad to find a fellow.
>
> Maybe that "amongst motor traffic" thing.

I live in a countryside like that. It is considered anti-social not to stop and pass the time of day. Motorists who don't know me from Adam raise a finger or several on the steering wheel. It's just some of the cyclists who're surly. (If Franki-boy weren't hanging around claiming that mentioning cyclist's fear gives aid and comfort to cyclists killed by cars who shouldn't have let it happen to them because he says it isn't so, I'd mention that they appear to be rigid with fear. Sorta like expecting someone locked into the tiger's cage at the zoo to give you a friendly greeting when you turn up to watch him being eaten.)

Andre Jute

[Dan]

Jay Beattie <jbea...@lindsayhart.com> writes:

> On Friday, August 23, 2013 11:12:07 AM UTC-7, Duane wrote:
>> On 8/23/2013 10:50 AM, sms wrote:
>> > On 8/23/2013 7:32 AM, Jay Beattie wrote:

>> > <snip>

>> >> Jobst didn't complaint that people were not social...

Um...

> ... but that they spoke

>> >> of rides as "grueling" or epic or turned everything in to great
>> >> personal efforts or traumas.

That's true.

>> > I still consider Tunitas Creek Road as grueling. Repeating to myself
>> > over and over "I will not walk, I will not walk. But at the top, I would
>> > say, "that was easy."
>> >
>> Saturday's ride in the Laurentians (Morin Heights) was certainly
>> grueling. Several places where I had that same discussion about not
>> walking. There was not really a top as there were several hills. But
>> at the end of the ride, I didn't say that was easy. I did say that I
>> was happy to have done it and it wasn't as bad as I thought.
>>
>> Not every ride is grueling but some days...
>
> Some rides are clearly grueling. Jobst just had this thing about pretenders. He was well known in the '70s for flogging national class racers through the Santa Cruz mountains -- racers who dropped me like a lead brick. Jobst knew grueling, but he didn't like to hear recreational riders puffing about riding a century or completing a climb he could do on a fixed gear (e.g. Mt. Hamilton). It was a snobby reaction, but then again, his ride reports did focus on the beauty or novelty of a climb and not it's "grueling-ness." He did think riding should be for enjoyment, but he also liked the whole "hard man" persona. Think about going on a ride that is well within your ability with some recreational riders who are huffing and puffing and straining to get to the top. Then listening to them talk about the epic climb, personal pain and suffering, difficulty, etc. Meanwhile, you're thinking, hey, why are these guys complaining. The lupines were out, I saw a deer. It was a beautiful day. Totally different perspectives.
>

Being self-absorbed with the "hard man" thing is for noobs.
The grueling just goes with the territory once you're a
hardcore bicyclist. A higher level of enlightenment takes
the grueling in stride and digs the lupines.

[Andre Jute]

On Friday, August 23, 2013 3:53:37 AM UTC+1, Wes Groleau wrote:
> On 08-22-2013 19:09, Andre Jute wrote:
>
> A prefer the other kind of stereotyping.
>

Damn right too. I wasn't even there when it happened, Sergeant.

Andre Jute

[Andre Jute]

On Friday, August 23, 2013 7:12:07 PM UTC+1, Duane wrote:

> Not every ride is grueling but some days...

If I ate gruel more often, I'd find fewer rides gruelling.

Andre Jute

[Andre Jute]

On Friday, August 23, 2013 10:44:12 PM UTC+1, Jay Beattie wrote:

> Totally O.T. regarding grueling rides. Last week, my ride was in a car driving up Big Cottonwood Canyon outside of Salt Lake City. My wife and I were in town, dropping my son off at the University of Utah. Anyway, the canyon is a 15 mile Sierra-like climb averaging 7-8% with some 10-15% jumps. It's about 4,500 foot elevation gain with a peak elevation just under 9,000, IIRC. There were lots of cyclists, and I wanted to be one of them . . . but, I was doing the driving thing. The grueling part is that two or three of the cyclists were hand-cycling. Then there were two groups of cross-x skiers (one male and one female) who were double poling UP the canyon on roller skis. Incroyable. I'm taking my bike the next time and will undoubtedly get slaughtered by the elevation. Coming from sea level is tough, let alone 15 miles of pretty continuous climbing.
>
> -- Jay Beattie.

No, no, no! Only a lawyer would get it so arse about end. The gruelling bit is driving your car to the top so slowly, all those idiot cyclists going UP breaking your speed every time you see a good corner to squeal around and practice your handbrake turns. Then you unleash the bike from the car, and you unleash the speed down the hill. That's the proper, efficient way an engineer does the job.

I remember probably forty years ago riding a ten-speed (probably a Peugeot -- my PA bought the bikes) down a mountain in Montana, a superb road surface, beautifully cambered sweeping turns. I wished it would go on forever.

Funny thing, I don't remember the ride to the top, which probably was gruelling. The next day in New York I had to come down the stairs from the mezzanine over our reception crabwise, one step at a time, holding onto the bannister, because all my muscles hurt like the worst case of flu ever. That would no doubt have irritated Jobst!

Andre Jute

[Dan]

Hey, writing is *your* job ;-)

[Andre Jute]

On Monday, August 19, 2013 7:28:03 AM UTC+1, Andre Jute wrote:
> We'll arrange them in order of dumbness (aka Krygowski Factor) later. For the time being let us just make a list:
>
>
>
> 1. Everybody wants to reduce the weight of bis bicycle. Nonsense. On a heavier bike you get more exercise in less time.
>
>
>
> 2. Cyclists are second-class road users who need to keep up with cars. Crap. Cyclists don't need licenses. Cars are on the road on sufferance and need to be licensed because they are fundamentally dangerous, as are their drivers, who also need licenses they are required to keep on them at all times to prove that they are permitted to operate a dangerous tol. It is time for cyclists to take back the roads that belong to them.
>
>
>
> 3. Lowest common denominator lamps for German hausfraus who cycle at 9mph are good enough for everyone on all roads. Fat German legislators who've never been on a bike in their lives say so, so it must be right. This is too ludicrous even to be sarcastic about. Included in this particular piece of idiotic illogic is the assumption that cyclists, being second class motorists, should be fobbed off with low beams so they don't irritate motorists even it the result is that this dumb attitude exposes the cyclist to greater danger than necessary.
>
>
>
> 4. If you can't keep up 20mph you shouldn't be on the road. Crap. See 2 above. This is a particular delusion of the roadies.
>
>
>
> 5. FILL IN YOUR PET CYCLING/CYCLISTS' STUPIDITY HERE
>
>
>
> Andre Jute
>
> Happy to provide a public service

31. I ride on a Mobius Strip. All directions are up. Cycling is about climbing until you hurt. If you don't climb until you hurt, you're a Fred.

I live up a steep hill, and beyond my house all the best routes start with even steeper hills. There's nowhere I can ride without crossing valleys, which means hills on the other side. The descents are spectacular, and the countryside is very beautiful, but none of it is flat.

Seriously, it's like an interval course designed to raise my respiration rate to exactly 116bpm, which is where my cardiologist wants it, with calmer phases and, on one favorite ride on a piece of road so steep I teeter on the edge of balance, at 120bpm for a few seconds. I always feel pretty good after these rides.

Andre Jute

[Dan]

Good insight. I hadn't really thought of that, but now that
you mention it, it fits the indications of some. And that's
a genuine thing.

[Dan]

Andre Jute <fiul...@yahoo.com> writes:

> On Friday, August 23, 2013 10:44:12 PM UTC+1, Jay Beattie wrote:
>
>> Totally O.T. regarding grueling rides. Last week, my ride was in a car driving up Big Cottonwood Canyon outside of Salt Lake City. My wife and I were in town, dropping my son off at the University of Utah. Anyway, the canyon is a 15 mile Sierra-like climb averaging 7-8% with some 10-15% jumps. It's about 4,500 foot elevation gain with a peak elevation just under 9,000, IIRC. There were lots of cyclists, and I wanted to be one of them . . . but, I was doing the driving thing. The grueling part is that two or three of the cyclists were hand-cycling. Then there were two groups of cross-x skiers (one male and one female) who were double poling UP the canyon on roller skis. Incroyable. I'm taking my bike the next time and will undoubtedly get slaughtered by the elevation. Coming from sea level is tough, let alone 15 miles of pretty continuous climbing.
>>

>

> No, no, no! Only a lawyer would get it so arse about end. The gruelling bit is driving your car to the top so slowly, all those idiot cyclists going UP breaking your speed every time you see a good corner to squeal around and practice your handbrake turns. Then you unleash the bike from the car, and you unleash the speed down the hill. That's the proper, efficient way an engineer does the job.
>

Probably so, but the thought that always crosses my mind when
I perceive motorists lacking appreciation for my "hard man"
status as I descend with no hands drinking water is, "Hey, I
didn't ride the chair lift to the top."

> I remember probably forty years ago riding a ten-speed (probably a Peugeot -- my PA bought the bikes) down a mountain in Montana, a superb road surface, beautifully cambered sweeping turns. I wished it would go on forever.
>

I remember riding my brakeless JC Higgins down the paved curves
by the Country Club.

Speaking of going on forever and gruel(l)ing: That's exactly
how I approach my morning warmup climb (~150 vertical feet of
14-15% grade five minutes out the door). I imagine what life
would be like if I had to keep climbing like that continuously
for the rest of my (hopefully long) life. (It does not good to
think ahead to the end of the misery. Live in the moment.)

Not sure how I'd do climbing whole mountians - I'm conditioned
for what I do.

> Funny thing, I don't remember the ride to the top, which probably was gruelling. The next day in New York I had to come down the stairs from the mezzanine over our reception crabwise, one step at a time, holding onto the bannister, because all my muscles hurt like the worst case of flu ever. That would no doubt have irritated Jobst!
>

Going bag o' spanners at the crest will do that - washes away
concsiousness and reboots awareness. I like to do an exercise
going down stairs - only one leg at a time, balancing, with my
eyes closed, feeling for the next step with the other foot.
It's very difficult at first and for some time, but really
develops balance and core strength / focus.

[Dan]

Andre Jute <fiul...@yahoo.com> writes:

> On Monday, August 19, 2013 7:28:03 AM UTC+1, Andre Jute wrote:
>>

<snip>

>
> 31. I ride on a Mobius Strip. All directions are up. Cycling is about climbing until you hurt. If you don't climb until you hurt, you're a Fred.
>
> I live up a steep hill, and beyond my house all the best routes start with even steeper hills. There's nowhere I can ride without crossing valleys, which means hills on the other side. The descents are spectacular, and the countryside is very beautiful, but none of it is flat.
>
> Seriously, it's like an interval course designed to raise my respiration rate to exactly 116bpm, which is where my cardiologist wants it, with calmer phases and, on one favorite ride on a piece of road so steep I teeter on the edge of balance, at 120bpm for a few seconds. I always feel pretty good after these rides.
>

My area is quite a bit like yours except we have no Leprechauns.
Same latitude, near the ocean, valleys, etc. And then there's
that feeling, too. As I have come to realize that we humans do
not share the same internal experience that I had thought, it's
reassuring to hear that we sometimes do,

[Joy Beeson]

On Fri, 23 Aug 2013 12:51:08 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid>
wrote:

> I have mixed feelings every time some merchant (who saw me ride up on a
> bike) says something like "Nice day for a bike ride!" or "Have a nice
> ride."

They always say "be careful out there" to me. I always say "I took
the how-to-be-careful course *twice*"

Since I never mastered the instant right turn, I'd take it a third
time if there were an instructor in this county.

Reminds me of avoiding a left-hooking driver first and seeing him
later. I said to the captain of the bike I was following "I didn't
know you could instant-turn a tandem." He said, "Neither did I."


--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://www.debeeson.net/joy/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

[Dan]

Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> writes:

> On Fri, 23 Aug 2013 12:51:08 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid>
> wrote:
>
>> I have mixed feelings every time some merchant (who saw me ride up on a
>> bike) says something like "Nice day for a bike ride!" or "Have a nice
>> ride."
>
> They always say "be careful out there" to me.

[Dan flies in the face of all usenet standing by replying thus]

Me, too. HA!! :-)

> I always say "I took
> the how-to-be-careful course *twice*"
>

I must have been smoking in the boys' room that day.

> Since I never mastered the instant right turn, I'd take it a third
> time if there were an instructor in this county.
>

Physics are what they are. The "quick turn" isn't always
feasible or adequate. There may be times you have to fly
and roll.

> Reminds me of avoiding a left-hooking driver first and seeing him
> later.

Huh? Okay, you've set the hook...

> I said to the captain of the bike I was following "I didn't
> know you could instant-turn a tandem." He said, "Neither did I."
>

Okay, I get it now - outside my experience. Together
our experiences create real synergy. "Ride, Captain, Ride."

(Both Sides Now)

[Andre Jute]

On Saturday, August 24, 2013 4:57:14 AM UTC+1, Dan wrote:
>
> My area is quite a bit like yours except we have no Leprechauns.
>
> Same latitude, near the ocean, valleys, etc. And then there's
>
> that feeling, too. As I have come to realize that we humans do
>
> not share the same internal experience that I had thought, it's
>
> reassuring to hear that we sometimes do,

Yo, man, greetings across the water.

[T0m $herman]

On 8/23/2013 11:44 PM, Dan wrote:
>> >Since I never mastered the instant right turn, I'd take it a third
>> >time if there were an instructor in this county.
>> >
> Physics are what they are. The "quick turn" isn't always
> feasible or adequate. There may be times you have to fly
> and roll.
>

Look farther to the inside of the turn than you want to go, and give the
handlebar a good push with your right arm (for a right turn).

--
T0m $herm@n

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Dan:

>It's kind of the same, but different, walking on the sidewalk.
>Here in Mayberry it's completely natural to smile and greet
>*anybody* you meet - not even forced or phony or contrived.
>In the city where I work, though, people mostly just walk by
>without any acknowledgment - like you were a ghost (unless they
>want to bum a cigarette).

That brings the scene in Crocodile Dundee to mind where he's on an NYC
street for the first time and greeting everybody who passes.

I have a neighbor who used to live in or very close to NYC and he said
that, aside from having so much more time available in his day because
of the shorter commute, the biggest adjustment he had to make after
moving here was understanding that people who greeted him in passing
didn't have an agenda... they were just greeting him.
--
Pete Cresswell

[thirty-six]

On Thursday, 22 August 2013 14:30:39 UTC+1, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
> Per Joy Beeson:
>
> >> 10) Special shoes are required for cycling.
>
> >
>
> >Well, seeing as I don't wear shoes at all when I'm not cycling . . .
>
> >
>
> >I have special shoes for the country and change into my other special
>
> >shoes at the city limits. My last "long" ride was spoiled because I
>
> >forgot my country shoes. Still was out for five or six hours, but
>
> >spent some of it walking around, eating supper twice, eating shaved
>
> >ice, buying milk, etc.
>
>
>
> Poor wording on my part.
>
>
>
> SHB: 10) Cycling-specific shoes are required for cycling.
>
>
>
> I've got shoes that are uncomfortable for cycling and shoes
>
> that are comfortable for cycling.... but they aren't
>
> cycling-specific. My guess is that a sufficiently-rigid
>
> sole is a major ingredient in the shoes that work.
>
> --
>
> Pete Cresswell

or flat pedals, like as wot is on exorcised bikes.

[(PeteCresswell)]

>. My guess is that a sufficiently-rigid
>>
>> sole is a major ingredient in the shoes that work.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Pete Cresswell
>
>or flat pedals, like as wot is on exorcised bikes.

I ride BMX flats on all my bikes except the SS.

But I still find them uncomfortable unless my shoe soles have a certain
amount of rigidity. Maybe it's just me...
--
Pete Cresswell

[Radey Shouman]

Reminds me somehow of my only trip to Texas A&M, a strange milieu, at
least at the time (80s). This was back when they still built a giant
tower of logs and burnt it down every homecoming -- the thing was about
half finished. The campus was full of ROTC cadets, and, while in
uniform, they were apparently required to verbally greet anyone in
civvies, in lieu of a salute.

Many of them delivered a normal greeting, such as a person might do of
his own volition. But some of them didn't seem very happy, and would
look you in the eye and produce a completely inarticulate grunt.


--

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Radey Shouman:

>Reminds me somehow of my only trip to Texas A&M, a strange milieu, at
>least at the time (80s). This was back when they still built a giant
>tower of logs and burnt it down every homecoming -- the thing was about
>half finished. The campus was full of ROTC cadets, and, while in
>uniform, they were apparently required to verbally greet anyone in
>civvies, in lieu of a salute.
>
>Many of them delivered a normal greeting, such as a person might do of
>his own volition. But some of them didn't seem very happy, and would
>look you in the eye and produce a completely inarticulate grunt.
>

Sounds like a lot of retail outlets these days - except that the
greetings are always faux-pleasant.

But it still creeps me out.
--
Pete Cresswell

[datakoll]

In an older edition ? of

http://books.google.com/books?id=wbQR2rlAwA8C&printsec=frontcover&dq=rodale+road+bicycling&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Y1gZUvXgCYL49gSo8ICIBQ&ved=0CEkQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=rodale%20road%20bicycling&f=false

there is a story abt a duel tween two riders for THE RACE ACROSS AMERICA.

Story in Rodale's book describes the training regimine of the challenger, who won. by default if I remeber.

For grueling, you should find n read this excellent book.

BTW, in finding the link in GooBooks, Goo then sent the following...

http://beginnertriathlete.com/discussion/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=491307&page=1&pagesize=25#M4769885

https://www.google.com/#fp=5aa0a42c857c6254&q=recbicylestech

[Dan]

Service industry interpersonal interaction is an interesting thing.
It's required - part of the job - a *big* part of the job - so it can
tend to be "forced". But it's a natural fit for many people, so it's
very often natural and genuine, too.

Many customers patronize services not so much for a service that is
reasonable to expect can be "purchased", but for the interpersonal.
That's all well and good (sort of) when it comes naturally as a
cnincidental side effect of some legitimate, if ostensible, service
thransaction relationship. Here we have people needing to buy
something and we have people selling a service and maybe they *also*
have a genuine interpersonal relationship in the process. Nothing
wrong with that, unless the customer feels entitled to the inter-
personal because of their money-in-hand, which is a situation loaded
for trouble even if they do go away satisfied, consequential to a
genuine, natural - or phony, contrived - interpersonal interaction.

Problem comes when it's not natural; and that doesn't make the person
in the job incompetent or rude - just not suited to the nature of
the "job" (prositution, anyone?) Not a problem when the customer
understands this, appreciates the conscientious fulfilment of the
legitimately saleable advertised service (too often the business
advertises service that is implied to satisfy interpersonal needs,
and too many people don't see the perversion in that) and doesn't
expect or demand a personal relationship just because they've brought
money. But customers are conditioned to expect the interpersonal -
genuine or not - and too many get in a huff when they don't get it.
They complain that so-and-so was "rude"; the boss steps in and tells
so-and-so they're not providing satisfactory customer service, sends
them up the road, and tries in the spirit of continuous improvement
to replace them with a "better" employee, and the cycle reinforces
itself.