leg cramps at night, after cycling/exercising

[Gus]

It has been very hot and humid here of late. Couple days ago I just rode to
the library and back, maybe 10 miles but it was during the afternoon. And I
mowed some of my lawn with a reel mower human powered the same day.

That night had terrible leg cramp when tried to put down the recliner foot
support and got horrible shooting pain in my calf. I had tried to drink
lots of water (maybe 4-5 16 ounce glasses during the day) and ate half a
banana. Usually, eating a banana prevents the problem but not this time.
Funny, not so funny thing at the time, was I didn't even get the foot
support down it popped back up, so was stuck in the recliner with the foot
support up. Had to shimmy out trying to not bend my beg to make it cramp
again. After about 15 minutes made it to the fridge and ate half another
banana and drank a glass of water. But had the leg cramped again couple
times though not full blown searing pain.

What do you do to prevent leg calf cramps? And what do when you get one in
the middle of the night? I usually writhe in pain and try and massage it
and try to relax. Eventually, it stops.

[Wes Groleau]

On 07-19-2013 19:37, Gus wrote:
> What do you do to prevent leg calf cramps? And what do when you get one
> in the middle of the night? I usually writhe in pain and try and
> massage it and try to relax. Eventually, it stops.

I've found that standing up helps a little. I guess making the muscle
do its normal job reduces its abnormal contraction. Not by much though.

Massage, too.

--
Wes Groleau

“Thinking I'm dumb gives people something to
feel smug about. Why should I disillusion them?”
— Charles Wallace
(in _A_Wrinkle_In_Time_)

[Dan]

I get those, and that's what I do, too. Oddly, it's when I'm really
strong and in good shape for riding long and hard.

Hmm... Vegetables (got those magic phytochemicals)? Opiates?
Beer? Sex? Sleep? (I realize this latter is a bit of a catch-22.)

The body machine is a mysterious thing.

Trevor, what do you think?

[datakoll]

STRETCHING EXERCISES ! there are manuals.

visit EXRX online

more fluids, fresh vegtables,.

[Frank Krygowski]

On Friday, July 19, 2013 7:37:19 PM UTC-4, Gus wrote:
>
> What do you do to prevent leg calf cramps? And what do when you get one in
>
> the middle of the night?

As I said in another post, I do sometimes get after-ride leg cramps now. That never happened at all until age 50 or so. Occasionally, I have to sort of fight them off while riding, but that's fortunately rare.

After reading a lot on the subject of cramps, plus testing various remedies, here's my routine: First, my water bottles don't contain pure water. I put a few shakes of table salt, or (better, I think) salt substitute into my water. This is especially true on hot days.

Second, my after-ride drink is orange juice with added salt. For whatever reason, it tastes wonderful to me after a hot ride. I think it's giving me something I need (say, sodium & potassium).

Third, if I do get a cramp or the beginning of a cramp, a big spoonful of mustard seems to stop it within seconds. In fact, I now carry a few of those fast-food mustard packets, the thin plastic envelopes of mustard, in my handlebar bag. I can recall only once that I actually used one on a ride, but the stuff works so well for me that it's worth carrying.

The articles that recommended mustard pointed out that nobody seems to know why it works; but OTOH, cramping in general is poorly understood. It's unlikely that any chemical in the mustard makes it to the muscle, because when it works, mustard stops a cramp in seconds. But I guess I don't care much why it works. For me, it just does.

- Frank Krygowski

[Joe Riel]

I'll get cramps in the arches of my feet. After a hard ride I can
generally induce them by curling the foot down (this makes it hard to
stretch the quad, since a quad stretch tends to curl the foot and start
a cramp. I occasionally get them at night; the solution is to get out
of bed and stand on the afflicted foot until the cramp stops, usually
just a few seconds.

--
Joe Riel

[John B.]

On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 19:37:19 -0400, "Gus" <gus.o...@geemail.com>
wrote:

I had several bad sessions of leg cramps, particularly at night while
asleep. A friend recommended trying magnesium tablets and the cramps
stopped immediately after I took the first tablet. My supposition is
that a combination of the hot weather that caused me to sweat even
more then normal and my avoidance of salt due to high blood pressure
(I don't know if salt contains any significant amount of magnesium)
caused me to dehydrate and perhaps my electrolytes were out of
balance. But regardless, it worked for me.

I have also read that putting a bar of soap in the bed also stops them
for some people.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Sepp Ruf]

John B. wrote:

> On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 19:37:19 -0400, "Gus" wrote:
>
>> It has been very hot and humid here of late. Couple days ago I just rode to
>> the library and back, maybe 10 miles but it was during the afternoon. And I
>> mowed some of my lawn with a reel mower human powered the same day.
>>
>> That night had terrible leg cramp when tried to put down the recliner foot
>> support and got horrible shooting pain in my calf. I had tried to drink
>> lots of water (maybe 4-5 16 ounce glasses during the day) and ate half a
>> banana. Usually, eating a banana prevents the problem but not this time.
>> Funny, not so funny thing at the time, was I didn't even get the foot
>> support down it popped back up, so was stuck in the recliner with the foot
>> support up. Had to shimmy out trying to not bend my beg to make it cramp
>> again. After about 15 minutes made it to the fridge and ate half another
>> banana and drank a glass of water. But had the leg cramped again couple
>> times though not full blown searing pain.
>>
>> What do you do to prevent leg calf cramps? And what do when you get one in
>> the middle of the night? I usually writhe in pain and try and massage it
>> and try to relax. Eventually, it stops.

You obviously need to wear a Seattle leg helmet at night, those spasms could
throw you on the ground, you know.

> I had several bad sessions of leg cramps, particularly at night while
> asleep. A friend recommended trying magnesium tablets and the cramps
> stopped immediately after I took the first tablet. My supposition is
> that a combination of the hot weather that caused me to sweat even
> more then normal and my avoidance of salt due to high blood pressure
> (I don't know if salt contains any significant amount of magnesium)
> caused me to dehydrate and perhaps my electrolytes were out of
> balance. But regardless, it worked for me.

Unless you want to import some road salt, there is very little magnesium in
salt, even raw sea salt. Instead, try magnesium citrate or malate if
magnesium carbonate or eating more Mg-containing natural food isn't enough.

> I have also read that putting a bar of soap in the bed also stops them
> for some people.

I heard that a can of mustard gas makes one forget the cramps.

[John B.]

On Sat, 20 Jul 2013 11:53:34 +0200, Sepp Ruf <inq...@Safe-mail.net>
wrote:

The stuff I bought is labeled Chelated Magnesium (whatever that means)
and seems to do the trick.

By the way, sea water is said to contain about 1200 - 1300 PPM of
Magnesium so I would assume that the evaporated sea water we can buy
here may well contain the same amount.

>> I have also read that putting a bar of soap in the bed also stops them
>> for some people.
>
>I heard that a can of mustard gas makes one forget the cramps.

So, probably, will a quart of whiskey, but that may cause stomach
spasms :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[datakoll]

riders here smear mustard on bar tape !

seriously, if you stretch expertly, exercise he area appropriately then the area will not cramp if no medical problem exists.

if the muscle is stretched then the muscle is relaxed in a state where if nutritionally supplied as normal or better then the muscle will not suddenly contract.

maybe a biz op ? bikemustard ? has Kryg tried BenGay ? izzat the mustard effect ? do you do this in Paris or Lower Ohio ?

aha ! a mustard-bar video staring Mr Cork

mustard...eyeyehhahhahahha....

[Duane]

Stretching, hydration and electrolytes. But you can still cramp when the
muscle goes from heavy use to none like when topping a tough hill and
stopping your pedalling. Need to keep spinning.

On the sofa or in bed I don't know. I've had that too but usually when I'm
not drinking enough water or eating well. Only thing that ever helped with
that once it happened was walking it out.

--
duane

[datakoll]

right, like bonking is total cramping body wide where bonking is casued by low hydration, lowering blood fluidity, lower available total water supply adn thus whether present or not lower nutrients, as often thought of...electrolytes

muscle cramping bonks a specific muscluar area, stretching pre-relaxs the area.

stretching beginning the day, before and after riding.

this cure is usually effective. Mustard/muscle relaxants cover the real causes preventing true cure.

remeber the MUSTARD PLASTER ?

I'LL fetch one !

[datakoll]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-zL_KdbCRWOs/UZ0Scie_odI/AAAAAAAABLc/Mw2yHeXXTNA/s400/mustard+plasters.jpg

[Gus]

"Dan" <d...@t23.daisyheadmayzie.net> wrote in message
news:87ob9x5...@t23.daisyheadmayzie.net...

> "Gus" <gus.o...@geemail.com> writes:

>> What do you do to prevent leg calf cramps? And what do when you get
>> one in the middle of the night? I usually writhe in pain and try and
>> massage it and try to relax. Eventually, it stops.
>
> I get those, and that's what I do, too. Oddly, it's when I'm really
> strong and in good shape for riding long and hard.

I get them when exercising a lot of a sudden (such as spring), or suddenly
slow down exercising after had been a lot (such as late fall).

Bananas help a lot, usually prevent them; maybe I didn't eat enough the
other day. Had a half a small one... I wonder what farmers/laborers did
that did not have grocery stores and bananas and Gatorade in older times?

[thirty-six]

If you like bananas, eat a dozen. If you can't eat that many, try another fruit. I'm particularly fond of mangoes, but in the last year have feasted on bananas, pears and oranges. Stop eating meat, milk and grain and stay with fruits, greens and fats. Those spasms are likely due to calcium which has stuck in your lymph ducts and this could be due to low levels of circulatory fat and/or high protein intake. Carbohydrate restriction and lack of quality dietary fat will cause this. The best fat is that from oily fish. My difficulties with calf spasms have disappeared since eating sufficient herrings/kippers to maintain an oily skin. I also have a bottle of cod liver oil and take a swig if I'm out of fish and there seems to be some dryness in my skin.

After the skin is self oiling, skin massage becomes most effective. Brushing of the skin with a natural fibre scrubbing brush will encourage circulation. Keep at it so all the area is pink and warm.

Any greens will assist lymphatic movement. Mustard, cayenne, turmeric and horseradish seem perticularly good for lymphatic movement.

Go to bed, keep warm and rest well. Point toes for 20 seconds so as to stretch the lymph ducts. They should respond within a few minutes, but this may cause the same painful spasm. That's your cue to keep resting.

Low magnesium levels will also cause the problem and are likely if little or no organic vegetation is eaten. The fastest rem,edy is to make up a saturated brine from sea salt or magnesium chloride and spread it over lower legs and feet, and also take 10g of the dry salt in a quart of water and spread this out through the day.

Dandelion leaves or comfrey leaves are useful for making an infusion to drink or as a poultice. The common term for comfrey being knitbone, you should see that it assists in calcium movement. Dandelion root may also be roasted and ground and used as coffee. It is far better to do this yourself than purchasing the commercial product. The home roasted stuff really helps, the shop stuff is relatively inert.

When massaging the lumps of pain, simply press in the centre of the pain and hold for twenty to thirty seconds before slowly releasing pressure. Do not rub up and down when in spasm or that pain is sharp, just hold it with varying pressure.

Sunbathing also helps, preferably naked but you certainly want to get the sides of your thighs exposed and all the way up to your ribs. Tight waistbands will also restrict movement so use braces not a belt on your trousers, or wear dungarees or a blanket if you "can't" go naked.

Of all the stuff i have tried, the last was cod liver oil. It's pretty damn easy to keep it up and could save a lot of bother trying to sort out everything else, so if you can't get fish with 2mm of fat under their skin, I reckon cod liver oil alone may do the trick. Forget about dosage instructions, take a mouthful when required and follow it with an orange each day.

[thirty-six]

On Saturday, 20 July 2013 05:41:28 UTC+1, datakoll wrote:
> STRETCHING EXERCISES ! there are manuals.

Yes, but don't work unless one's insides are oiled up first.

>
>
>
> visit EXRX online
>
>
>
> more fluids, fresh vegtables,.

My experience is that one should forget about fluids and just eat fruit to satisfy "thirst". Every day, keep eating fruit until you shit.

[thirty-six]

On Saturday, 20 July 2013 05:57:31 UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On Friday, July 19, 2013 7:37:19 PM UTC-4, Gus wrote:
>
> >
>
> > What do you do to prevent leg calf cramps? And what do when you get one in
>
> >
>
> > the middle of the night?
>
>
>
> As I said in another post, I do sometimes get after-ride leg cramps now. That never happened at all until age 50 or so. Occasionally, I have to sort of fight them off while riding, but that's fortunately rare.
>
>
>
> After reading a lot on the subject of cramps, plus testing various remedies, here's my routine: First, my water bottles don't contain pure water. I put a few shakes of table salt, or (better, I think) salt substitute into my water. This is especially true on hot days.

Make it sea salt or magnesium chloride. About 10g per quart/litre. Use some fresh lemon and sugar to balance the taste

>
>
>
> Second, my after-ride drink is orange juice with added salt. For whatever reason, it tastes wonderful to me after a hot ride. I think it's giving me something I need (say, sodium & potassium).

Try pineapple juice mixed with tomato juice, a bit of sea salt and cayenne.

>
>
>
> Third, if I do get a cramp or the beginning of a cramp, a big spoonful of mustard seems to stop it within seconds. In fact, I now carry a few of those fast-food mustard packets, the thin plastic envelopes of mustard, in my handlebar bag. I can recall only once that I actually used one on a ride, but the stuff works so well for me that it's worth carrying.

Tube of Colman's English mustard helps me when I get suddenly tired.

>
>
>
> The articles that recommended mustard pointed out that nobody seems to know why it works; but OTOH, cramping in general is poorly understood.

Mustard like horseradish is a strong stimulant for the lymphatic system.

[thirty-six]

Disease management only. Your's is relatively mild and may be simply a matter of scrubbing your lower legs and feet with a scrubbing brush and clean water before going to bed and after rising. You may want to put on magnesium-oil castor oil or sesame oil as fits you best. You should probably make some investigatory massage to see if your lower legs are affected.

[thirty-six]

Table-salt is sodium chloride, an industrial by-product of magnesium extraction.
Use the waste NaCl2 for slug killing and eat those greens. Sea salt is known to reduce high blood pressure. Table-salt rarely causes a rise in BP in people susceptible.

>
>
>
> I have also read that putting a bar of soap in the bed also stops them
>
> for some people.

One could suspect that is generally reducing acidity but it's much better to wash you clothes and bedclothes in soap than a petroleum oil derived detergent.

[thirty-six]

That's good, that's your indication to eat fruit.

[thirty-six]

Be better in your socks. Washing socks in a saturated magnesium brine is not so messy.

[thirty-six]

On Saturday, 20 July 2013 13:07:11 UTC+1, Duane wrote:
> datakoll <data...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > riders here smear mustard on bar tape !
>
> >
>
> > seriously, if you stretch expertly, exercise he area appropriately then
>
> > the area will not cramp if no medical problem exists.
>
> >
>
> > if the muscle is stretched then the muscle is relaxed in a state where if
>
> > nutritionally supplied as normal or better then the muscle will not suddenly contract.
>
> >
>
> > maybe a biz op ? bikemustard ? has Kryg tried BenGay ? izzat the mustard
>
> > effect ? do you do this in Paris or Lower Ohio ?
>
> >
>
> > aha ! a mustard-bar video staring Mr Cork
>
> >
>
> > mustard...eyeyehhahhahahha....
>
>
>
> Stretching, hydration and electrolytes. But you can still cramp when the
>
> muscle goes from heavy use to none like when topping a tough hill and
>
> stopping your pedalling. Need to keep spinning.

Or lie sown and rest for an hour, fill your belly with fruit and coat your legs with magnesium-oil.

[Gus]

"Duane" <sp...@flarn.com> wrote in message
news:1194600118396014896....@news.eternal-september.org...

> Stretching, hydration and electrolytes. But you can still cramp when the
> muscle goes from heavy use to none like when topping a tough hill and
> stopping your pedalling. Need to keep spinning.
>
> On the sofa or in bed I don't know. I've had that too but usually when
> I'm
> not drinking enough water or eating well. Only thing that ever helped
> with
> that once it happened was walking it out.
>
> --
> duane

I drink a lot of water, more than other people. I seem to dehydrate easier
than others. I do sweat quite a bit... I've never had it happen during the
day or when riding or exercising. Only at night when asleep. I will try and
force myself to walk it off it in the future. Tbh, moving the leg feels
like it is going to rip the muscle; it feels so tightly wound up.

When I see hardcore athletes on TV on a very hot day pull up with a cramp,
it makes me wince because I know what that it feels like.

I should do more stretching. I've gotten lax about that. Thx.

[Gus]

"thirty-six" <thirt...@live.co.uk> wrote in message
news:e6710dcc-efba-44ef...@googlegroups.com...

If you like bananas, eat a dozen. If you can't eat that many, try another
fruit. I'm particularly fond of mangoes, but in the last year have feasted
on bananas, pears and oranges. Stop eating meat, milk and grain and stay
with fruits, greens and fats. Those spasms are likely due to calcium which
has stuck in your lymph ducts and this could be due to low levels of
circulatory fat and/or high protein intake. Carbohydrate restriction and
lack of quality dietary fat will cause this. The best fat is that from oily
fish. My difficulties with calf spasms have disappeared since eating
sufficient herrings/kippers to maintain an oily skin. I also have a bottle
of cod liver oil and take a swig if I'm out of fish and there seems to be
some dryness in my skin.

---
I've been a vegetarian since mid 80s. I still eat eggs once in a while, and
too much cheese. No fish though....

Go to bed, keep warm and rest well. Point toes for 20 seconds so as to
stretch the lymph ducts. They should respond within a few minutes, but this
may cause the same painful spasm. That's your cue to keep resting.

---
pointing my toes will cause it. I try to avoid pointing them because it
sometimes triggers. Also the motion of putting a recliner foot support back
down can do it, especially when it's a stiff one.

When massaging the lumps of pain, simply press in the centre of the pain and
hold for twenty to thirty seconds before slowly releasing pressure. Do not
rub up and down when in spasm or that pain is sharp, just hold it with
varying pressure.

---
I usually have rubbed up and down. The muscle actually feels like it's
twisting. Can't really think straight when it happens. All I can think is:
god, please making this ******* pain go away.

[Gus]

"Frank Krygowski" <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7e64d04f-9d3c-4c1c...@googlegroups.com...

---

Had never heard about mustard. Will try anything! I will keep a packet or
two in the nightstand. I kind of like mustard so not a problem.

I avoid salt. Not for bp, but have some salt sensitivity that started in
mid 30s. When I eat something salty, even just moderately, my tongue gets
kind of bloated and feels weird for a few hours. Highly citric things like
orange juice do this too. I buy the low sodium v8 and low acid oj. I think
maybe I had too much salt when I was younger? I notce that Gatorade and
PowerAde have some sodium. I should probably drink them watered down when I
feel it might happen after hard workout in hot weather. Maybe have some in
the evening or before bed. Might wake up to need to use the bathroom, but
better than waking up in pain.

[Sir Ridesalot]

On Friday, July 19, 2013 7:37:19 PM UTC-4, Gus wrote:

Hi Gus. Last year on a tour a guy rode 100 kms and after stopping had such severe cramps he had to be taken to emergency. Here's a link to the thread about it and that thread talks a lot about preventing cramping.

https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topicsearchin/rec.bicycles.tech/dehydration/rec.bicycles.tech/bP_eXNYlNwM

Hope this helps.

Cheers

[John B.]

On Sat, 20 Jul 2013 11:58:26 -0400, "Gus" <gus.o...@geemail.com>
wrote:

If the problem actually is a lack of magnesium (as mine seems to be)
it is likely that eating a diet made up largely of non-processed food
was the answer. Raw sea salt, i.e. dried sea water, contains magnesium
while processed salt may not. Whole grain cereals such as brown rice
and whole wheat contain magnesium while polished rice and white bread
contain little or none. Fresh green leaf vegetables contain magnesium,
etc.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per Gus:

>What do you do to prevent leg calf cramps? And what do when you get one in
>the middle of the night? I usually writhe in pain and try and massage it
>and try to relax. Eventually, it stops.

When I ask doctors, I get the impression that cramps are just not
studied very much and most doctors don't have much to say.

RE/Night cramps... I have gotten used to them. Yeah, they still hurt
like hell (especially the ones in the muscles from the inner side of the
knee to the groin)... but over time, the familiarity overcomes the fear.
You eventually come to realize that, no matter how much it hurts, it's
going to go away.
--
Pete Cresswell

[thirty-six]

On Sunday, 21 July 2013 02:25:46 UTC+1, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
> Per Gus:
>
> >What do you do to prevent leg calf cramps? And what do when you get one in
>
> >the middle of the night? I usually writhe in pain and try and massage it
>
> >and try to relax. Eventually, it stops.
>
>
>
> When I ask doctors, I get the impression that cramps are just not
>
> studied very much and most doctors don't have much to say.
>

Once the lymphatics are working well, there is no disease.

>
>
> RE/Night cramps... I have gotten used to them. Yeah, they still hurt
>
> like hell (especially the ones in the muscles from the inner side of the
>
> knee to the groin)... but over time, the familiarity overcomes the fear.
>
> You eventually come to realize that, no matter how much it hurts, it's
>
> going to go away.
>

I like not having cramps.

[Sepp Ruf]

Gus wrote:

> I wonder what farmers/laborers did
> that did not have grocery stores and bananas and Gatorade in older times?

Instead of imbibing "vegetarian athlete" soda, they ate dust.

"Added to about 10% of sodas in North America for decades, BVO has
reportedly led to soda-drinkers experiencing skin lesions, memory loss, and
nerve disorders. Interestingly, these are all the symptoms of overexposure
to bromine. What is most concerning is the fact that studies have found that
BVO can actually build up in human tissue, accumulating in large quantities
over long periods of soda consumption."

[datakoll]

try mixing mustard with hot water...

[Gus]

"Sir Ridesalot" <i_am_cyc...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:b5b6e7fe-852a-42a8...@googlegroups.com...

> Hi Gus. Last year on a tour a guy rode 100 kms and after stopping had such
> severe cramps he had to be taken to emergency. Here's a link to the thread
> about it and that thread talks a lot about preventing cramping.
>
> https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!topicsearchin/rec.bicycles.tech/dehydration/rec.bicycles.tech/bP_eXNYlNwM

Thanks, I will check it out.

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per thirty-six:

>Once the lymphatics are working well, there is no disease.

Can somebody explain where the lymph system comes in?
--
Pete Cresswell

[AMuzi]

On 7/21/2013 5:46 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
> Per thirty-six:
>> Once the lymphatics are working well, there is no disease.
>
> Can somebody explain where the lymph system comes in?
>

Besides harboring the Lyme parasite?

http://www.news.ucdavis.edu/search/news_detail.lasso?id=9922

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[thirty-six]

On Sunday, 21 July 2013 23:46:40 UTC+1, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
> Per thirty-six:
>
> >Once the lymphatics are working well, there is no disease.
>
>
>
> Can somebody explain where the lymph system comes in?
>

It is the major circulatory system in the human body. It manages to keep us healthy as long as we keep it healthy. It is the cleansing system, removing surplus minerals, toxins and foreign bodies from the muscle and organ fibres. Some being recycled back to the digestive tract, others being dumped out through the skin. It requires fats to lubricate the ducts and draw the minerals through the capillaries. Sea salt/seawater is also important in supporting it's function. While we feed our muscles with carbohydrate for power, we must also cleanse those muscles using fat and salt. It is the soap to our muscle-fibre. The ancients had it right and held both oil (usually olive) and salt (of the sea, not NaCl2) in high esteem.

[John B.]

So if you injure the lymph system you drop down dead while you can
live happily ever after if someone severs your arteries?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[thirty-six]

On Monday, 22 July 2013 00:13:07 UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
> On 7/21/2013 5:46 PM, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
>
> > Per thirty-six:
>
> >> Once the lymphatics are working well, there is no disease.
>
> >
>
> > Can somebody explain where the lymph system comes in?
>
> >
>
>
>
> Besides harboring the Lyme parasite?
>
>
>
> http://www.news.ucdavis.edu/search/news_detail.lasso?id=9922
>
>

a bio-warfare development of Plum Island.

[thirty-six]

No, the lymphatic system will recapillarize in areas of damage. One may drop down repeatedly with lymphatic congestion and the death is long and suffering.

> while you can
>
> live happily ever after if someone severs your arteries?

It's best not to allow the red fluid to escape. Blood pressure drops and clots should form. The injured will slowly rehydrate if the lymphatic system's content is fluid. Blood loss may be countered naturally as long as the injured remains resting.

Coconut water or ocean water is said to be an accurate plasma replacement. Maybe the coconut palm is the tree-of-life. I suspect that generally the palms do provide best nutrition. Coconut oil is said to be a facsimile of our natural skin oil. It's not so good as fish oil for getting stagnant lymph moving. Oily fish is so good for the lymphatics, one could base a religion on it (Vatican currently claims that intellectual property).

[thirty-six]

On Saturday, 20 July 2013 21:31:05 UTC+1, Gus wrote:
> "thirty-six" <thirt...@live.co.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:e6710dcc-efba-44ef...@googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> If you like bananas, eat a dozen. If you can't eat that many, try another
>
> fruit. I'm particularly fond of mangoes, but in the last year have feasted
>
> on bananas, pears and oranges. Stop eating meat, milk and grain and stay
>
> with fruits, greens and fats. Those spasms are likely due to calcium which
>
> has stuck in your lymph ducts and this could be due to low levels of
>
> circulatory fat and/or high protein intake. Carbohydrate restriction and
>
> lack of quality dietary fat will cause this. The best fat is that from oily
>
> fish. My difficulties with calf spasms have disappeared since eating
>
> sufficient herrings/kippers to maintain an oily skin. I also have a bottle
>
> of cod liver oil and take a swig if I'm out of fish and there seems to be
>
> some dryness in my skin.
>
> ---
>
> I've been a vegetarian since mid 80s. I still eat eggs once in a while, and
>
> too much cheese. No fish though....

Stop eating cheese, completely. Have real lemonade/lemon tea for breakfast and get your body alkaline so that it may dissolve the casein which restricts your circulation.

>
>
>
>
>
> Go to bed, keep warm and rest well. Point toes for 20 seconds so as to
>
> stretch the lymph ducts. They should respond within a few minutes, but this
>
> may cause the same painful spasm. That's your cue to keep resting.
>
> ---
>
> pointing my toes will cause it.

Not really cause.

> I try to avoid pointing them because it
>
> sometimes triggers.

That's better. That shows you it is the natural action, go with it.

> Also the motion of putting a recliner foot support back
>
> down can do it, especially when it's a stiff one.

Er, I stopped using them things as I got stuck. Just grab an orange and go to bed when rest is needed.

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> When massaging the lumps of pain, simply press in the centre of the pain and
>
> hold for twenty to thirty seconds before slowly releasing pressure. Do not
>
> rub up and down when in spasm or that pain is sharp, just hold it with
>
> varying pressure.
>
> ---
>
> I usually have rubbed up and down. The muscle actually feels like it's
>
> twisting. Can't really think straight when it happens. All I can think is:
>
> god, please making this ******* pain go away.

The best topical application when wanting immediate relief is probably magnesium-oil. Get a 1kg bag of magnesium chloride flakes and make up the "oil" yourself, it's simply a saturated brine. Keep a small bottle of the "oil" strung around your neck to use in emergency. I keep a bowl of the "oil" and dip my feet in, when I remember. It's been possibly a week since last time and I've now got some tightness while sitting so will soak my feet (20 minutes) today and make up a bottle of solution to drink.

My hand to my calf showed it to be cool and by sight it shows pale patches so the dry brush will by in order too to get the skin to purge.


The long term solution is minimising protein-foods and eating magnesium rich foods with good fats, not rancid "vegetable oil". If you are vegetarian by principle then ensure that your oils are only cold-pressed. Sweet almond, walnut and sesame oils seem to present good value. Coconut oil is theoretically best, although I feel it only targets skin, so does not deep cleanse and heavier oils are required in the major lymphatic ducts. Olive oil seems to be the best all-rounder (if we exclude fish oil) and not too heavy to drink. The dressing on your salad is likely as important as the greens themselves. I like to use fresh lime with the olive and also have some cider vinegar "with the mother".

I believe you can turn this around quite quickly (days) if you stick to eating fruits greens and natural fats with the leg scrubbing and magnesium-oil applications. Within a month you may not further experience any symptoms and that may continue as long as you continue to eat clean. Be glad you've not had it throughout your body, like me.

Although I said that there are some cheeses which may be eaten, I don't think you should chance getting the wrong stuff as even bad stuff can be hard to resist eating once it's cheese in the fridge. Have fresh or scratched olives to pick at.

[Sir Ridesalot]

Bllod clots won't form on most severed arteries until after the victim has bled to death. That's because of the pressure the heart pumps the blood at.

You really do have some very strange understandings of how the human body operates and is fed.

Cheers

[thirty-six]

Do you mean, dead as declared by a medical doctor, or really dead, that for which one does not recover after three days? You do understand doctors make "mistakes" don't you?

> That's because of the pressure the heart pumps the blood at.

The heart does not pump blood "at pressure", that's another misconception that's been festering since the Royal College of Physicians got there hands on medical-apparatus, more commonly known as conjurers prop's (properties). The heart pumps because of the ramp in mineral levels. It's in response to what's in the blood versus what is in the heart tissue and immediate connecting ducts.

>
>
>
> You really do have some very strange understandings

Let me make it clear to you. I have NO under-standing of general principlae of medical professionals.

> of how the human body operates and is fed.

I've been managing it much better than those that be registered medical men.
Perhaps it's because I am a living breathing man, not a Person (of commerce).

I know stuff most don't, stuff I've experienced, seen and touched, myself. My judgement may have been previously swayed due to the mesmerism of medical illusionary practice, but no more, I see clearly with free eyes.

[Sepp Ruf]

Sir Ridesalot wrote:
> On Monday, July 22, 2013 8:09:12 AM UTC-4, thirty-six wrote:

>> Coconut water or ocean water is said to be an accurate plasma replacement. Maybe the coconut palm
is the tree-of-life. I suspect that generally the palms do provide best
nutrition. Coconut oil is
said to be a facsimile of our natural skin oil. It's not so good as fish
oil for getting stagnant
lymph moving. Oily fish is so good for the lymphatics, one could base a

religion on it.


One could also base a religion on the coconut, but I wouldn't recommend it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/August_Engelhardt

> You really do have some very strange understandings of how the human body operates and is fed.

... unlike many homicidal medical doctors who seem to only have a
prescription pad.

[Duane]

On 7/22/2013 10:01 AM, thirty-six wrote:
> On Monday, 22 July 2013 14:26:19 UTC+1, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
>> On Monday, July 22, 2013 8:09:12 AM UTC-4, thirty-six wrote:
>>
>>> On Monday, 22 July 2013 12:32:11 UTC+1, John B. wrote:
>>
>>>
>>
>>>> On Mon, 22 Jul 2013 04:20:15 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>> <thirt...@live.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>> On Sunday, 21 July 2013 23:46:40 UTC+1, (PeteCresswell) wrote:
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>> Per thirty-six:
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>> Once the lymphatics are working well, there is no disease.
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>> Can somebody explain where the lymph system comes in?
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>> It is the major circulatory system in the human body. It manages to keep us healthy as long as we keep it healthy. It is the cleansing system, removing surplus minerals, toxins and foreign bodies from the muscle and organ fibres. Some being recycled back to the digestive tract, others being dumped out through the skin. It requires fats to lubricate the ducts and draw the minerals through the capillaries. Sea salt/seawater is also important in supporting it's function. While we feed our muscles with carbohydrate for power, we must also cleanse those muscles using fat and salt. It is the soap to our muscle-fibre. The ancients had it right and held both oil (usually olive) and salt (of the sea, not NaCl2) in high esteem.
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>> So if you injure the lymph system you drop down dead
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>> No, the lymphatic system will recapillarize in areas of damage. One may drop down repeatedly with lymphatic congestion and the death is long and suffering.
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>> while you can
>>
>>>
>>
>>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>> live happily ever after if someone severs your arteries?
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>> It's best not to allow the red fluid to escape. Blood pressure drops and clots should form. The injured will slowly rehydrate if the lymphatic system's content is fluid. Blood loss may be countered naturally as long as the injured remains resting.
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>> Coconut water or ocean water is said to be an accurate plasma replacement. Maybe the coconut palm is the tree-of-life. I suspect that generally the palms do provide best nutrition. Coconut oil is said to be a facsimile of our natural skin oil. It's not so good as fish oil for getting stagnant lymph moving. Oily fish is so good for the lymphatics, one could base a religion on it (Vatican currently claims that intellectual property).
>>
>>
>>
>> Bllod clots won't form on most severed arteries until after the victim has bled to death.
>
> Do you mean, dead as declared by a medical doctor, or really dead, that for which one does not recover after three days? You do understand doctors make "mistakes" don't you?
>
>> That's because of the pressure the heart pumps the blood at.
>
> The heart does not pump blood "at pressure", that's another misconception that's been festering since the Royal College of Physicians got there hands on medical-apparatus, more commonly known as conjurers prop's (properties). The heart pumps because of the ramp in mineral levels. It's in response to what's in the blood versus what is in the heart tissue and immediate connecting ducts.

Why the heart pumps doesn't seem pertinent to how it pumps. I've seen
severed arteries spraying blood. There is certainly some pressure behind
that.

>>
>>
>>
>> You really do have some very strange understandings
>
> Let me make it clear to you. I have NO under-standing of general principlae of medical professionals.
>
>> of how the human body operates and is fed.
>
>
> I've been managing it much better than those that be registered medical men.
> Perhaps it's because I am a living breathing man, not a Person (of commerce).
>
> I know stuff most don't, stuff I've experienced, seen and touched, myself. My judgement may have been previously swayed due to the mesmerism of medical illusionary practice, but no more, I see clearly with free eyes.
>

Commendable but are you saying that a severed limb is going to clot
before you bleed to death? Have you tried to stop the bleeding from
someone with a severed artery? You have to apply enough pressure to
stop the flow. Or am I misunderstanding what you're saying?

[AMuzi]

On 7/22/2013 9:01 AM, thirty-six wrote:
-snip snip snip-

>
> The heart does not pump blood "at pressure", that's another misconception ...
-snip-


I sincerely wish you never ever see a real arterial spurt.
Scary as hell even if it's the other guy and not your own.

[Sir Ridesalot]

I've seen is and ccontrary to Trevor's belief, there is a lot of pressure there and it's amazing how far blood from a severed artery will fly.

Cheers

[Duane]

Yeah, same here, unfortunately.

[(PeteCresswell)]

Per AMuzi:

>Besides harboring the Lyme parasite?
>
>http://www.news.ucdavis.edu/search/news_detail.lasso?id=9922

I meant in the context of cramps.
--
Pete Cresswell

[John B.]

On Mon, 22 Jul 2013 05:09:12 -0700 (PDT), thirty-six

Your explanation seem a bit confusing as you appear to be saying that
exsanguination may not cause death as long as the lymph system isn't
damaged and there is a coconut tree close by.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Gus]

"Frank Krygowski" <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7e64d04f-9d3c-4c1c...@googlegroups.com...

The articles that recommended mustard pointed out that nobody seems to
know why it works; but OTOH, cramping in general is poorly understood.

It's unlikely that any chemical in the mustard makes it to the muscle,
because when it works, mustard stops a cramp in seconds. But I guess I
don't care much why it works. For me, it just does.

---

I was at Penn Station couple days ago and got the artichoke sub, and a
couple mustard packets to go. Guldens. I'm almost looking forward to
getting a cramp so I can test the mustard solution.

I read a handful of websites that said mustard may work, like you said.
I put a couple packets on my nightstand.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/health/sc-health-0118-pharm-20120118,0,1026515.story

[somebody]

On Fri, 19 Jul 2013 19:37:19 -0400, "Gus" <gus.o...@geemail.com>

wrote:

>It has been very hot and humid here of late. Couple days ago I just rode to
>the library and back, maybe 10 miles but it was during the afternoon. And I
>mowed some of my lawn with a reel mower human powered the same day.
>
>That night had terrible leg cramp when tried to put down the recliner foot
>support and got horrible shooting pain in my calf. I had tried to drink
>lots of water (maybe 4-5 16 ounce glasses during the day) and ate half a
>banana. Usually, eating a banana prevents the problem but not this time.
>Funny, not so funny thing at the time, was I didn't even get the foot
>support down it popped back up, so was stuck in the recliner with the foot
>support up. Had to shimmy out trying to not bend my beg to make it cramp
>again. After about 15 minutes made it to the fridge and ate half another
>banana and drank a glass of water. But had the leg cramped again couple
>times though not full blown searing pain.
>

>What do you do to prevent leg calf cramps? And what do when you get one in

>the middle of the night? I usually writhe in pain and try and massage it
>and try to relax. Eventually, it stops.
>

I have had the same thing, cramps evening/night after long hot sweaty
ride. A potassium-containing salt substitute took care of it, use in
your favorite beverage while or after riding. Also good on popcorn.

"Sports" drinks seem to have the same stuff, but they cost more.

[lhend...@gmail.com]

Wow, thanks thirty -six for all the effort in responding, but I'm not convinced you have any idea what you are talking about. It has been very entertaining though. Please excuse me if I offend.