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Silca pump gauge repair how-to
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Tim McNamara
Sep 1, 2016, 1:08:38 AM9/1/16
to
My 20+ year old Silca Super Pista pump has, for the first time,
malfunctioned and needs repair. A few weeks ago I found a little
machine screw on the floor; not knowin gwhat it was, I put it on my
workbench. Today I discovered my Silca pump gauge wasn't reading
correctly. The needle will not return to zero. Indeed, tapping the
pump on the floor lightly caused the needle to bounce upwards rather
than down and it is now resting against the pin but on the wrong side.
I discovered that the screw I found is one of the two on the back of the
gauge. I can't find repair instructions online readily, so I figured
that someone where would know what to do. The pump seems to work fine
otherwise. Silca sells replacement gauges for $22, if it comes to that,
although I suspect it's a standard gauge that can be obtained elsewhere.
malfunctioned and needs repair. A few weeks ago I found a little
machine screw on the floor; not knowin gwhat it was, I put it on my
workbench. Today I discovered my Silca pump gauge wasn't reading
correctly. The needle will not return to zero. Indeed, tapping the
pump on the floor lightly caused the needle to bounce upwards rather
than down and it is now resting against the pin but on the wrong side.
I discovered that the screw I found is one of the two on the back of the
gauge. I can't find repair instructions online readily, so I figured
that someone where would know what to do. The pump seems to work fine
otherwise. Silca sells replacement gauges for $22, if it comes to that,
although I suspect it's a standard gauge that can be obtained elsewhere.
John B.
Sep 1, 2016, 4:29:29 AM9/1/16
to
mainly because conventional Bourdon Tube gauges usually have
adjustment devices and without a gauge testing service one never knows
whether the repaired gauge is even close to accurate.
If your pump looks like
https://silca.cc/products/silca-superpista-ultimate-floor-pump?variant=902502277
then physically fitting a new gauge shouldn't be a problem.
Common 0 - 200 psi air gauges are cheap as dirt, perhaps $5.00. But, a
gauge with a certified accuracy, maybe 2.5%, may be a bit costly, say
$22.59 :-)
See:
http://tinyurl.com/h3sh6nd
for more information.
--
cheers,
John B.
AMuzi
Sep 1, 2016, 8:55:07 AM9/1/16
to
tighten both of them (moderately, you're threading into a
brass block). If needed, lift the needle off and press it
back at the zero position. Try not to bend/move/alter the
bourdon tube[1] or its linkage in any way.
Now is a good time to check/tighten the two screws on the
very bottom as they work loose over years of use. You might
also remove the checkvalve and clear out any crud, a common
service issue on these.
[1] looks like a brass tortellini with soldered seams.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
jbeattie
Sep 1, 2016, 9:51:20 AM9/1/16
to
I look forward to hearing if Tim can get the needle reading correctly again. Jobst hypothesized that this problem occurred due to over-pressure when the presta valve stuck shut and air backed up into the pump rather than going into the tire.
-- Jay Beattie
Tim McNamara
Sep 1, 2016, 12:17:29 PM9/1/16
to
off, reset the pointer to rest against the stop, put the bezel back on
and tried pumping up a tire. The pump seems to work fine and to read
fairly accurately. 105 PSI on the Silca gauge corresponded to 102 PSI
on another hand-held gauge that I have. Of course I don't know the
absolute calibration of either and those two gauges have never perfectly
matched anyway; about the same as this.
While I was at it, I cleaned out the check valve which appeared to have
a couple of cat hairs stuck in it and popped out the plunger to spread
the leather out a smidge as it seemed a little loose in the tube. Pump
seems to be happy now, I have today and tomorow off in advance of Labor
Day weekend and the weather is absolutely freaking gorgeous, so time to
pump up the tires and go for a bike ride!
Thanks!
Jeff Liebermann
Sep 1, 2016, 1:40:04 PM9/1/16
to
On Thu, 01 Sep 2016 15:29:25 +0700, John B. <slocom...@gmail.xyz>
wrote:
>My experience with repairing gauges has not been wholly satisfactory
>mainly because conventional Bourdon Tube gauges usually have
>adjustment devices and without a gauge testing service one never knows
>whether the repaired gauge is even close to accurate.
Adjusting the typical bourdon tube gauge is difficult, but not
impossible. In general, if there's internal damage, it's easier and
better to replace the gauge. If you're lucky and the gauge has a zero
adjust, then just turn the screw and it should return to zero. Most
small diameter gauges, as found on a bicycle pump, lack easily
accessible adjustments.
Checking the calibration is easy, but you will need to have a known
good pressure gauge available. I built a brass manifold with two
Schrader valves, a Schrader to Presta valve adapter, and a 0-100 lb
digital pressure gauge. If you don't want to buy an accurate pressure
gauge, just install another valve stem and use a known good floor
pump. Then, all you do is pump the tire pump to a value that's in
your operating range, and compare readings between the reference gauge
and your floor pump.
However, that's probably overkill. Just take two Schrader valve stems
(see below) and attach them together with a 1/4NPT female to female
coupler. Do NOT insert the valves into the stems. Attach two tire
pumps. Pump up either pump and compare gauge readings.
If you need Presta, use an adapter. If you hate adapters, glue two
Presta valve stems together[1].
I'll post a photo when I find mine, but really, it's quite simple to
build.
Brass manifold or tee from the plumbing section of the hardware store.
<http://www.provacusa.com/assets/images/4waymanifold.jpg>
<https://img4.fastenal.com/productimages/440107-131280.jpg>
Two gas line pressure test fittings with Shrader valve stems.
<https://www.spudtech.com/images/products/airfill.jpg>
Schrader to Presta adapter (required if you have a Presta only pump).
<http://www.cantitoeroad.com/Valve-Adapter--Schrader-to-Presta_p_263.html>
Accurate gauge:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=digital+pressure+gauge+1/4+npt&tbm=isch>
If you don't like the astronomical prices, something more modest.
<https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=+pressure+gauge+1%2F4+npt>
[1]. Careful with this glue method as it could blow apart at high
pressures. Just be VERY careful with the glue job or maybe build a
brass "cage" for the stems using two brass washers and some careful
soldering.
--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
wrote:
>My experience with repairing gauges has not been wholly satisfactory
>mainly because conventional Bourdon Tube gauges usually have
>adjustment devices and without a gauge testing service one never knows
>whether the repaired gauge is even close to accurate.
impossible. In general, if there's internal damage, it's easier and
better to replace the gauge. If you're lucky and the gauge has a zero
adjust, then just turn the screw and it should return to zero. Most
small diameter gauges, as found on a bicycle pump, lack easily
accessible adjustments.
Checking the calibration is easy, but you will need to have a known
good pressure gauge available. I built a brass manifold with two
Schrader valves, a Schrader to Presta valve adapter, and a 0-100 lb
digital pressure gauge. If you don't want to buy an accurate pressure
gauge, just install another valve stem and use a known good floor
pump. Then, all you do is pump the tire pump to a value that's in
your operating range, and compare readings between the reference gauge
and your floor pump.
However, that's probably overkill. Just take two Schrader valve stems
(see below) and attach them together with a 1/4NPT female to female
coupler. Do NOT insert the valves into the stems. Attach two tire
pumps. Pump up either pump and compare gauge readings.
If you need Presta, use an adapter. If you hate adapters, glue two
Presta valve stems together[1].
I'll post a photo when I find mine, but really, it's quite simple to
build.
Brass manifold or tee from the plumbing section of the hardware store.
<http://www.provacusa.com/assets/images/4waymanifold.jpg>
<https://img4.fastenal.com/productimages/440107-131280.jpg>
Two gas line pressure test fittings with Shrader valve stems.
<https://www.spudtech.com/images/products/airfill.jpg>
Schrader to Presta adapter (required if you have a Presta only pump).
<http://www.cantitoeroad.com/Valve-Adapter--Schrader-to-Presta_p_263.html>
Accurate gauge:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=digital+pressure+gauge+1/4+npt&tbm=isch>
If you don't like the astronomical prices, something more modest.
<https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=+pressure+gauge+1%2F4+npt>
[1]. Careful with this glue method as it could blow apart at high
pressures. Just be VERY careful with the glue job or maybe build a
brass "cage" for the stems using two brass washers and some careful
soldering.
--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
Jeff Liebermann
Sep 1, 2016, 10:58:02 PM9/1/16
to
On Thu, 01 Sep 2016 10:39:59 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:
>I'll post a photo when I find mine, but really, it's quite simple to
>build.
I decided it was easier to build a new bicycle pump pressure gauge
comparator contraption than to remember whom I loaned it to[1]:
<http://www.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/misc/slides/Bicycle%20pump%20pressure%20gauge.html>
Those are 2 Schrader bicycle valves masquerading as gas line pressure
test fitting:
<https://www.plumbingsupply.com/testing.html#testgauge>
and a generic pressure gauge. All the fittings are 1/4" NPT. However,
the prices were a bit high at the local Ace Hardware store. $10 for
the gauge, $5/ea for the valves, and $8 for the Tee. Ouch.
It could have been built without the Tee and only one Schrader valve
head. To do that, you could just buy the above gas pipe test kit, and
plug up the pipe hole with a 3/4" NPT plug. However, I want to also
use it to compare two pump gauges, measure the pressure using an
external pressure source, and possibly install a small surge tank in
order to obtain more accurate pressure readings. Those all require
the 2nd fitting.
I previously mumbled something about removing the valves. Don't
bother. The pump head will hold the valve open. Also, my Blackburn
floor pump has a head with requires that the center pin in the head be
pushed inward, or the Presta side of the pump head will leak air.
Testing was easy. I just pushed down on the floor pump while watching
both gauges. There both read identically. Since the volume of this
affair is smaller than the volume of one pump stroke, this test is
rather quick and mostly effortless.
None of this will do anything to repair a broken gauge, but should be
quite adequate for testing any repairs or adjustments.
[1] I just realized that this is the 4th or 5th one of these that
I've built. I gotta learn to stop loaning them to friends.
wrote:
>I'll post a photo when I find mine, but really, it's quite simple to
>build.
comparator contraption than to remember whom I loaned it to[1]:
<http://www.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/misc/slides/Bicycle%20pump%20pressure%20gauge.html>
Those are 2 Schrader bicycle valves masquerading as gas line pressure
test fitting:
<https://www.plumbingsupply.com/testing.html#testgauge>
and a generic pressure gauge. All the fittings are 1/4" NPT. However,
the prices were a bit high at the local Ace Hardware store. $10 for
the gauge, $5/ea for the valves, and $8 for the Tee. Ouch.
It could have been built without the Tee and only one Schrader valve
head. To do that, you could just buy the above gas pipe test kit, and
plug up the pipe hole with a 3/4" NPT plug. However, I want to also
use it to compare two pump gauges, measure the pressure using an
external pressure source, and possibly install a small surge tank in
order to obtain more accurate pressure readings. Those all require
the 2nd fitting.
I previously mumbled something about removing the valves. Don't
bother. The pump head will hold the valve open. Also, my Blackburn
floor pump has a head with requires that the center pin in the head be
pushed inward, or the Presta side of the pump head will leak air.
Testing was easy. I just pushed down on the floor pump while watching
both gauges. There both read identically. Since the volume of this
affair is smaller than the volume of one pump stroke, this test is
rather quick and mostly effortless.
None of this will do anything to repair a broken gauge, but should be
quite adequate for testing any repairs or adjustments.
[1] I just realized that this is the 4th or 5th one of these that
I've built. I gotta learn to stop loaning them to friends.
John B.
Sep 2, 2016, 1:48:20 AM9/2/16
to
>On Thu, 01 Sep 2016 15:29:25 +0700, John B. <slocom...@gmail.xyz>
>wrote:
>
>>My experience with repairing gauges has not been wholly satisfactory
>>mainly because conventional Bourdon Tube gauges usually have
>>adjustment devices and without a gauge testing service one never knows
>>whether the repaired gauge is even close to accurate.
>
>Adjusting the typical bourdon tube gauge is difficult, but not
>impossible. In general, if there's internal damage, it's easier and
>better to replace the gauge. If you're lucky and the gauge has a zero
>adjust, then just turn the screw and it should return to zero. Most
>small diameter gauges, as found on a bicycle pump, lack easily
>accessible adjustments.
>
>Checking the calibration is easy, but you will need to have a known
>good pressure gauge available. I built a brass manifold with two
>Schrader valves, a Schrader to Presta valve adapter, and a 0-100 lb
>digital pressure gauge. If you don't want to buy an accurate pressure
>gauge, just install another valve stem and use a known good floor
>pump. Then, all you do is pump the tire pump to a value that's in
>your operating range, and compare readings between the reference gauge
>and your floor pump.
But how do you know that the calibration gauge is reading correctly?
>wrote:
>
>>My experience with repairing gauges has not been wholly satisfactory
>>mainly because conventional Bourdon Tube gauges usually have
>>adjustment devices and without a gauge testing service one never knows
>>whether the repaired gauge is even close to accurate.
>
>Adjusting the typical bourdon tube gauge is difficult, but not
>impossible. In general, if there's internal damage, it's easier and
>better to replace the gauge. If you're lucky and the gauge has a zero
>adjust, then just turn the screw and it should return to zero. Most
>small diameter gauges, as found on a bicycle pump, lack easily
>accessible adjustments.
>
>Checking the calibration is easy, but you will need to have a known
>good pressure gauge available. I built a brass manifold with two
>Schrader valves, a Schrader to Presta valve adapter, and a 0-100 lb
>digital pressure gauge. If you don't want to buy an accurate pressure
>gauge, just install another valve stem and use a known good floor
>pump. Then, all you do is pump the tire pump to a value that's in
>your operating range, and compare readings between the reference gauge
>and your floor pump.
Or your digital gauge, for that matter. A proper testing station will
include a dead weight tester to calibrate the calibration gauge(s) :-)
>
>However, that's probably overkill. Just take two Schrader valve stems
>(see below) and attach them together with a 1/4NPT female to female
>coupler. Do NOT insert the valves into the stems. Attach two tire
>pumps. Pump up either pump and compare gauge readings.
>
>If you need Presta, use an adapter. If you hate adapters, glue two
>Presta valve stems together[1].
>
>I'll post a photo when I find mine, but really, it's quite simple to
>build.
>
>Brass manifold or tee from the plumbing section of the hardware store.
><http://www.provacusa.com/assets/images/4waymanifold.jpg>
><https://img4.fastenal.com/productimages/440107-131280.jpg>
>
>Two gas line pressure test fittings with Shrader valve stems.
><https://www.spudtech.com/images/products/airfill.jpg>
>
>Schrader to Presta adapter (required if you have a Presta only pump).
><http://www.cantitoeroad.com/Valve-Adapter--Schrader-to-Presta_p_263.html>
>
>Accurate gauge:
><https://www.google.com/search?q=digital+pressure+gauge+1/4+npt&tbm=isch>
>If you don't like the astronomical prices, something more modest.
><https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=+pressure+gauge+1%2F4+npt>
>
>
>[1]. Careful with this glue method as it could blow apart at high
>pressures. Just be VERY careful with the glue job or maybe build a
>brass "cage" for the stems using two brass washers and some careful
>soldering.
--
John B.
Jeff Liebermann
Sep 2, 2016, 12:05:16 PM9/2/16
to
On Fri, 02 Sep 2016 12:48:18 +0700, John B. <slocom...@gmail.xyz>
wrote:
>But how do you know that the calibration gauge is reading correctly?
>Or your digital gauge, for that matter. A proper testing station will
>include a dead weight tester to calibrate the calibration gauge(s) :-)
Use The Force(tm) Luke!
It's actually quite easy. I drag myself over to the local
multiversity, prostate myself before the keeper of the calibration
lab, beg forgiveness for previous equipment damage, issue the required
bribe, and calibrate the indicated reading of my gauge against one of
their dead weight pressure tester:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=pressure+calibrator&tbm=isch>
I discovered that some of my cheap gauges exhibit some hysteresis
making calibration more difficult:
<https://www.dwyer-inst.com/articles/industry/powderbulk/understanding-pressure-sensor-accuracy/understanding-pressure-sensor-accuracy.cfm>
My piezo digital gauge doesn't have the problem.
Once I have a calibrated gauge, the rest of my gauges and pumps are
calibrate against it, usually just at key reference points, which
coincide with my favorite pressure settings for my various tires.
Hint: Don't use an automotive oil pressure gauge or sensor. They do
work and are very rugged, but they have horrible accuracy and
linearity problems. They also respond very slowly to changes in
pressure.
I wonder if the LBS could use this as a draw for the local cyclists.
Free bicycle pump gauge calibration. Bring in the pump, we supply the
equipment, and you do all the work. I suspect a fair number of pump
gauges have problems.
<https://www.google.com/search?q=bicycle+pump+pressure+calibration>
wrote:
>But how do you know that the calibration gauge is reading correctly?
>Or your digital gauge, for that matter. A proper testing station will
>include a dead weight tester to calibrate the calibration gauge(s) :-)
It's actually quite easy. I drag myself over to the local
multiversity, prostate myself before the keeper of the calibration
lab, beg forgiveness for previous equipment damage, issue the required
bribe, and calibrate the indicated reading of my gauge against one of
their dead weight pressure tester:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=pressure+calibrator&tbm=isch>
I discovered that some of my cheap gauges exhibit some hysteresis
making calibration more difficult:
<https://www.dwyer-inst.com/articles/industry/powderbulk/understanding-pressure-sensor-accuracy/understanding-pressure-sensor-accuracy.cfm>
My piezo digital gauge doesn't have the problem.
Once I have a calibrated gauge, the rest of my gauges and pumps are
calibrate against it, usually just at key reference points, which
coincide with my favorite pressure settings for my various tires.
Hint: Don't use an automotive oil pressure gauge or sensor. They do
work and are very rugged, but they have horrible accuracy and
linearity problems. They also respond very slowly to changes in
pressure.
I wonder if the LBS could use this as a draw for the local cyclists.
Free bicycle pump gauge calibration. Bring in the pump, we supply the
equipment, and you do all the work. I suspect a fair number of pump
gauges have problems.
<https://www.google.com/search?q=bicycle+pump+pressure+calibration>
John B.
Sep 2, 2016, 8:32:43 PM9/2/16
to
On Fri, 02 Sep 2016 09:05:14 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:
:-)
My experience is that most of the small cheap gauges do have errors,
but I would also guess that the average cyclists doesn't actually
care. My guess is that the average guy pumps the tires up to a number
between the big number and the little number embossed on the tire wall
and rides away contented.
At least, even here, there was sufficient discussion when the subject
came up to show, I believe that even the elite riders really aren't
really that knowledgeable about the effects of tire pressure.
But having said that, snake bite flats aside, what is the actual
importance of tire pressure? What will be the actual (not calculated)
difference in time for a, say 10 mile TT, with 10 psi more or less
pressure in the tires?
--
cheers,
John B.
wrote:
My experience is that most of the small cheap gauges do have errors,
but I would also guess that the average cyclists doesn't actually
care. My guess is that the average guy pumps the tires up to a number
between the big number and the little number embossed on the tire wall
and rides away contented.
At least, even here, there was sufficient discussion when the subject
came up to show, I believe that even the elite riders really aren't
really that knowledgeable about the effects of tire pressure.
But having said that, snake bite flats aside, what is the actual
importance of tire pressure? What will be the actual (not calculated)
difference in time for a, say 10 mile TT, with 10 psi more or less
pressure in the tires?
--
cheers,
John B.
Jeff Liebermann
Sep 2, 2016, 9:29:31 PM9/2/16
to
On Sat, 03 Sep 2016 07:32:38 +0700, John B. <slocom...@gmail.xyz>
wrote:
>My experience is that most of the small cheap gauges do have errors,
>but I would also guess that the average cyclists doesn't actually
>care.
I have a cute trick that sometimes gets their attention. This really
only works with a floor pump. Pump up a tire to some particular
pressure and stop. Read the gauge as accurately as possible. Now,
squeeze the tire on the sides to increase the pressure. For narrow
high pressure tires, it may be necessary use a pair of pliers,
C-clamp, or anything that will produce a visible increase in pressure.
Sitting on the bike will usually do the tricks. Release the clamp or
get off the bike and read the gauge again.
On the few floor pump gauges that I've done this on, I can usually get
about 1 to 3 lb difference in reading. The hysteresis effect is more
obvious on low tire pressures than on high pressures. I once found an
ancient gauge that produced a 5 lb difference at about 45 lbs.
You can also do it from the other direction. If you fill a tire with
air and watch the gauge, the reading starts out high while pumping,
and then drops a little when you stop pumping. That's approaching the
final value from above (high -> low). However, when you just apply a
tire pressure gauge to the tire, the final value is approached from
below (low -> high). Assuming no leaks, the difference between the
two is the hysteresis of the gauge.
Another fun test is to measure the tire pressure when cold. Then, go
for a ride and measure it again when warm.
Of course, there's been some research:
<http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/12/bikes-and-tech/resistance-futile-tire-pressure-width-affect-rolling-resistance_355085>
Scroll down to "Inflation pressure versus rolling resistance". The
largest change in rolling resistance was 1.6 watts out of about 48
watts or about 3% overall. Not a big deal.
The consensus seems to be don't bother:
<https://janheine.wordpress.com/2015/01/26/the-tire-pressure-revolution/>
Of all our research on tires, the most revolutionary
finding is this: Tire pressure has almost no effect
on a tire’s speed. We did not believe it at first,
either, so we’ve tested it numerous times. It’s been
confirmed numerous times, with different methodologies.
(The reader comments are quite interesting and worth reading).
>My guess is that the average guy pumps the tires up to a number
>between the big number and the little number embossed on the tire wall
>and rides away contented.
I guess I'm below average. I overpressure by about 10 psi, and let
the tire and valve leak air along my ride. I usually arrive with
insufficient pressure, but the average pressure along the ride is
about right.
>At least, even here, there was sufficient discussion when the subject
>came up to show, I believe that even the elite riders really aren't
>really that knowledgeable about the effects of tire pressure.
I vaguely recall one discussion in this newsgroup on the pressure loss
caused by disconnecting the pump head. The OP apparently thought is
was sufficiently significant to worry about. I thought differently,
but managed to feed the fire sufficiently to keep the discussion going
for about a week.
>But having said that, snake bite flats aside, what is the actual
>importance of tire pressure? What will be the actual (not calculated)
>difference in time for a, say 10 mile TT, with 10 psi more or less
>pressure in the tires?
Sorry. No data, clue, or experience. I can only estimate the effect.
What might be useful is recording the times and tire pressures of all
the bicycles that cross the finish line after a race and see if there
is any correlation. However, due to the measurement errors and
uncontrolled conditions, the results will probably be meaningless.
wrote:
>My experience is that most of the small cheap gauges do have errors,
>but I would also guess that the average cyclists doesn't actually
>care.
only works with a floor pump. Pump up a tire to some particular
pressure and stop. Read the gauge as accurately as possible. Now,
squeeze the tire on the sides to increase the pressure. For narrow
high pressure tires, it may be necessary use a pair of pliers,
C-clamp, or anything that will produce a visible increase in pressure.
Sitting on the bike will usually do the tricks. Release the clamp or
get off the bike and read the gauge again.
On the few floor pump gauges that I've done this on, I can usually get
about 1 to 3 lb difference in reading. The hysteresis effect is more
obvious on low tire pressures than on high pressures. I once found an
ancient gauge that produced a 5 lb difference at about 45 lbs.
You can also do it from the other direction. If you fill a tire with
air and watch the gauge, the reading starts out high while pumping,
and then drops a little when you stop pumping. That's approaching the
final value from above (high -> low). However, when you just apply a
tire pressure gauge to the tire, the final value is approached from
below (low -> high). Assuming no leaks, the difference between the
two is the hysteresis of the gauge.
Another fun test is to measure the tire pressure when cold. Then, go
for a ride and measure it again when warm.
Of course, there's been some research:
<http://velonews.competitor.com/2014/12/bikes-and-tech/resistance-futile-tire-pressure-width-affect-rolling-resistance_355085>
Scroll down to "Inflation pressure versus rolling resistance". The
largest change in rolling resistance was 1.6 watts out of about 48
watts or about 3% overall. Not a big deal.
The consensus seems to be don't bother:
<https://janheine.wordpress.com/2015/01/26/the-tire-pressure-revolution/>
Of all our research on tires, the most revolutionary
finding is this: Tire pressure has almost no effect
on a tire’s speed. We did not believe it at first,
either, so we’ve tested it numerous times. It’s been
confirmed numerous times, with different methodologies.
(The reader comments are quite interesting and worth reading).
>My guess is that the average guy pumps the tires up to a number
>between the big number and the little number embossed on the tire wall
>and rides away contented.
the tire and valve leak air along my ride. I usually arrive with
insufficient pressure, but the average pressure along the ride is
about right.
>At least, even here, there was sufficient discussion when the subject
>came up to show, I believe that even the elite riders really aren't
>really that knowledgeable about the effects of tire pressure.
caused by disconnecting the pump head. The OP apparently thought is
was sufficiently significant to worry about. I thought differently,
but managed to feed the fire sufficiently to keep the discussion going
for about a week.
>But having said that, snake bite flats aside, what is the actual
>importance of tire pressure? What will be the actual (not calculated)
>difference in time for a, say 10 mile TT, with 10 psi more or less
>pressure in the tires?
What might be useful is recording the times and tire pressures of all
the bicycles that cross the finish line after a race and see if there
is any correlation. However, due to the measurement errors and
uncontrolled conditions, the results will probably be meaningless.
Frank Krygowski
Sep 2, 2016, 11:46:38 PM9/2/16
to
On 9/1/2016 12:17 PM, Tim McNamara wrote:
>
>
> Well, putting the screw back in was easy. I popped the plastic bezel
> off, reset the pointer to rest against the stop, put the bezel back on
> and tried pumping up a tire. The pump seems to work fine and to read
> fairly accurately. 105 PSI on the Silca gauge corresponded to 102 PSI
> on another hand-held gauge that I have. Of course I don't know the
> absolute calibration of either and those two gauges have never perfectly
> matched anyway; about the same as this.
A few years ago, I used a laboratory dead weight pressure tester to
>
>
> Well, putting the screw back in was easy. I popped the plastic bezel
> off, reset the pointer to rest against the stop, put the bezel back on
> and tried pumping up a tire. The pump seems to work fine and to read
> fairly accurately. 105 PSI on the Silca gauge corresponded to 102 PSI
> on another hand-held gauge that I have. Of course I don't know the
> absolute calibration of either and those two gauges have never perfectly
> matched anyway; about the same as this.
check the calibration on my collection of tire pressure gauges. To my
surprise, the most accurate were the pencil-style gages, the ones based
on a simple coil spring and piston. My floor pump (an ancient metal
Nashbar model with bourdon tube gage) was off by 7 psi, reading 100 psi
at a true 93 psi. A pocket sized Zefal gage with a dial was off by
nearly as much.
It is possible to calibrate bourdon tube gages, but I just used a magic
marker to write "Add 7 psi" on the side of the pump. Really, even a 7
percent discrepancy makes little difference when riding.
--
- Frank Krygowski
Frank Krygowski
Sep 3, 2016, 12:07:57 AM9/3/16
to
On 9/2/2016 12:05 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
>
> I wonder if the LBS could use this as a draw for the local cyclists.
> Free bicycle pump gauge calibration. Bring in the pump, we supply the
> equipment, and you do all the work. I suspect a fair number of pump
> gauges have problems.
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=bicycle+pump+pressure+calibration>
Some years ago, our bike club ran a sort of picnic-plus-ride event at a
>
>
> I wonder if the LBS could use this as a draw for the local cyclists.
> Free bicycle pump gauge calibration. Bring in the pump, we supply the
> equipment, and you do all the work. I suspect a fair number of pump
> gauges have problems.
> <https://www.google.com/search?q=bicycle+pump+pressure+calibration>
local park, which included several bike-oriented games. In addition to
a slow bike race, a heaviest bike award, a bicycle rim toss game, etc.
we had a tire pumping contest.
Each contestant started with his own deflated tire and his own pump. The
objective was to pump the tire to 100 psi without using a gage. As I
recall, there were several people who got within just a couple psi... at
least, according to the not-officially-calibrated gage we used!
Further off-topic: Another contest was a flat tire changing race,
starting with a deflated front tire on a bike. The objective was to
pull the wheel, completely remove the tube, then replace it, remount the
tire, inflate to riding pressure and remount the wheel. The winner (a
guy who has the reputation of being the best pro bike mechanic in our
area) completed the task in less than a minute. Nobody else came close.
--
- Frank Krygowski
John B.
Sep 3, 2016, 1:49:24 AM9/3/16
to
On Fri, 02 Sep 2016 18:29:32 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:
Meaningless? I am amazed sir. Amazed! Any set of number can be used to
prove something, and in many cases both the pro and con sides of the
question. I am a great believer in the Mark Twain quote:
"Figures often beguile me, particularly when I have the arranging of
them myself".
--
cheers,
John B.
wrote:
prove something, and in many cases both the pro and con sides of the
question. I am a great believer in the Mark Twain quote:
"Figures often beguile me, particularly when I have the arranging of
them myself".
--
cheers,
John B.
John B.
Sep 3, 2016, 1:52:33 AM9/3/16
to
calibrate it :-)
--
cheers,
John B.
Graham
Sep 3, 2016, 5:22:58 AM9/3/16
to
"John B." <slocom...@gmail.xyz> wrote in message news:oq5ksbtnbg5uuuu5e...@4ax.com...
[snip]
> But having said that, snake bite flats aside, what is the actual
> importance of tire pressure? What will be the actual (not calculated)
> difference in time for a, say 10 mile TT, with 10 psi more or less
> pressure in the tires?
Too many variables to isolate the effect by simply comparing times. From experience I have tried various pressures in my Vittoria Corsa slicks and settled on 125psi front and back for most of our local courses. I must admit this is more by feel than measurement.
> importance of tire pressure? What will be the actual (not calculated)
> difference in time for a, say 10 mile TT, with 10 psi more or less
> pressure in the tires?
I started from the premise that on a smooth surface rolling resistance falls with increasing pressure but on a real surface it goes through a minimum as pressure increases. The reason cited for the apparent increase in rolling resistance beyond the minimum being the increased vertical travel of the bike as it starts to lift off over the surface imperfections rarther than them being absorbed by the tyre. As the energy required to lift the bike has to come from your pedalling effort and is lost to propelling the bike forward you travel slower. You can certainly feel the increase in vibration through the aero bar pads on a particular course ridden at different pressures.
After one course "suffered" from a chip seal treatment times were definitely slower. A number of riders including myself tried dropping our tyre pressures and the general concensus was that we got some of our lost time back but difficult to quantify due to changes in temperature, atmospheric pressure and wind speed and direction between races. The bike certainly felt better on that course with around 10psi less in the tyres.
Graham.
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
Jeff Liebermann
Sep 3, 2016, 5:22:15 PM9/3/16
to
On Sat, 03 Sep 2016 12:49:19 +0700, John B. <slocom...@gmail.xyz>
wrote:
>Meaningless?
Yep. 96.72% of all figures are meaningless (or contrived for the
occasion).
>I am amazed sir. Amazed! Any set of number can be used to
>prove something, and in many cases both the pro and con sides of the
>question.
Way back in High Skool, I was on the forensics (debating) team. As
part of the exercise, we were assigned some manner of debatable issue.
Which side of the issue was selected at random. We were expected to
effectively debate both sides on any argument. During my research, I
would accumulate as many numbers as I thought necessary. It didn't
matter much what the numbers showed, as I could massage my favored
conclusions to fit almost any data.
>I am a great believer in the Mark Twain quote:
> "Figures often beguile me, particularly when I have the arranging of
>them myself".
I know people who prefer to judge by the source instead of by the
validity of the argument. That's much easier than applying the
necessary logic or taking the time to think.
"Trust me" (Jimmy Carter).
wrote:
>Meaningless?
Yep. 96.72% of all figures are meaningless (or contrived for the
occasion).
>I am amazed sir. Amazed! Any set of number can be used to
>prove something, and in many cases both the pro and con sides of the
>question.
part of the exercise, we were assigned some manner of debatable issue.
Which side of the issue was selected at random. We were expected to
effectively debate both sides on any argument. During my research, I
would accumulate as many numbers as I thought necessary. It didn't
matter much what the numbers showed, as I could massage my favored
conclusions to fit almost any data.
>I am a great believer in the Mark Twain quote:
> "Figures often beguile me, particularly when I have the arranging of
>them myself".
validity of the argument. That's much easier than applying the
necessary logic or taking the time to think.
"Trust me" (Jimmy Carter).
John B.
Sep 4, 2016, 12:46:56 AM9/4/16
to
On Sat, 03 Sep 2016 14:22:17 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:
>On Sat, 03 Sep 2016 12:49:19 +0700, John B. <slocom...@gmail.xyz>
>wrote:
>
>>Meaningless?
>
>Yep. 96.72% of all figures are meaningless (or contrived for the
>occasion).
>
>>I am amazed sir. Amazed! Any set of number can be used to
>>prove something, and in many cases both the pro and con sides of the
>>question.
>
>Way back in High Skool, I was on the forensics (debating) team. As
>part of the exercise, we were assigned some manner of debatable issue.
>Which side of the issue was selected at random. We were expected to
>effectively debate both sides on any argument. During my research, I
>would accumulate as many numbers as I thought necessary. It didn't
>matter much what the numbers showed, as I could massage my favored
>conclusions to fit almost any data.
>
Years ago I discovered that a one inch thick pile of (preferably green
and white striped) fan-fold computer paper covered with numbers could
be used as evidence of almost anything :-)
>>I am a great believer in the Mark Twain quote:
>> "Figures often beguile me, particularly when I have the arranging of
>>them myself".
>
>I know people who prefer to judge by the source instead of by the
>validity of the argument. That's much easier than applying the
>necessary logic or taking the time to think.
>"Trust me" (Jimmy Carter).
--
cheers,
John B.
wrote:
>On Sat, 03 Sep 2016 12:49:19 +0700, John B. <slocom...@gmail.xyz>
>wrote:
>
>>Meaningless?
>
>Yep. 96.72% of all figures are meaningless (or contrived for the
>occasion).
>
>>I am amazed sir. Amazed! Any set of number can be used to
>>prove something, and in many cases both the pro and con sides of the
>>question.
>
>Way back in High Skool, I was on the forensics (debating) team. As
>part of the exercise, we were assigned some manner of debatable issue.
>Which side of the issue was selected at random. We were expected to
>effectively debate both sides on any argument. During my research, I
>would accumulate as many numbers as I thought necessary. It didn't
>matter much what the numbers showed, as I could massage my favored
>conclusions to fit almost any data.
>
and white striped) fan-fold computer paper covered with numbers could
be used as evidence of almost anything :-)
>>I am a great believer in the Mark Twain quote:
>> "Figures often beguile me, particularly when I have the arranging of
>>them myself".
>
>I know people who prefer to judge by the source instead of by the
>validity of the argument. That's much easier than applying the
>necessary logic or taking the time to think.
>"Trust me" (Jimmy Carter).
--
John B.
Jeff Liebermann
Sep 4, 2016, 12:45:50 PM9/4/16
to
On Sun, 04 Sep 2016 11:46:50 +0700, John B. <slocom...@gmail.xyz>
wrote:
>Years ago I discovered that a one inch thick pile of (preferably green
>and white striped) fan-fold computer paper covered with numbers could
>be used as evidence of almost anything :-)
Preponderance of evidence, also known as weight of evidence, only
works in civil trials. In criminal cases, the decision of the jury
has to be unanimous.
<http://dictionary.law.com/default.aspx?selected=1586>
I believe that's also where the "scales of justice" originated.
<https://www.google.com/search?q=scales+of+justice&tbm=isch>
Modern justice is dispensed by the dollar, not by the pound.
Locally, the courts now require that all court documents be submitted
electronically, thus reducing the paper problem. I'm not sure of the
effect, but the local stationary stores haven't sold green bar paper
in many years. I guess justice will now be dispensed by the megabyte
(and the dollar).
wrote:
>Years ago I discovered that a one inch thick pile of (preferably green
>and white striped) fan-fold computer paper covered with numbers could
>be used as evidence of almost anything :-)
works in civil trials. In criminal cases, the decision of the jury
has to be unanimous.
<http://dictionary.law.com/default.aspx?selected=1586>
I believe that's also where the "scales of justice" originated.
<https://www.google.com/search?q=scales+of+justice&tbm=isch>
Modern justice is dispensed by the dollar, not by the pound.
Locally, the courts now require that all court documents be submitted
electronically, thus reducing the paper problem. I'm not sure of the
effect, but the local stationary stores haven't sold green bar paper
in many years. I guess justice will now be dispensed by the megabyte
(and the dollar).
John B.
Sep 4, 2016, 7:31:53 PM9/4/16
to
On Sun, 04 Sep 2016 09:45:44 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:
>On Sun, 04 Sep 2016 11:46:50 +0700, John B. <slocom...@gmail.xyz>
>wrote:
>
>>Years ago I discovered that a one inch thick pile of (preferably green
>>and white striped) fan-fold computer paper covered with numbers could
>>be used as evidence of almost anything :-)
>
>Preponderance of evidence, also known as weight of evidence, only
>works in civil trials. In criminal cases, the decision of the jury
>has to be unanimous.
><http://dictionary.law.com/default.aspx?selected=1586>
>I believe that's also where the "scales of justice" originated.
><https://www.google.com/search?q=scales+of+justice&tbm=isch>
>Modern justice is dispensed by the dollar, not by the pound.
>
>Locally, the courts now require that all court documents be submitted
>electronically, thus reducing the paper problem. I'm not sure of the
>effect, but the local stationary stores haven't sold green bar paper
>in many years. I guess justice will now be dispensed by the megabyte
>(and the dollar).
Regarding civil law, I once read a science fiction story about some
distant planet where civil cases were extremely rare. It seems that
the inhabitants of the planet wee a bit on the "wild side" and when
the judge announced his findings in a case the spectators at the trial
leaped from their seats and literally tore the losing attorney apart.
I'm not sure whether that is applicably on all cases but it does seem
appropriate in some :-)
--
cheers,
John B.
wrote:
>On Sun, 04 Sep 2016 11:46:50 +0700, John B. <slocom...@gmail.xyz>
>wrote:
>
>>Years ago I discovered that a one inch thick pile of (preferably green
>>and white striped) fan-fold computer paper covered with numbers could
>>be used as evidence of almost anything :-)
>
>Preponderance of evidence, also known as weight of evidence, only
>works in civil trials. In criminal cases, the decision of the jury
>has to be unanimous.
><http://dictionary.law.com/default.aspx?selected=1586>
>I believe that's also where the "scales of justice" originated.
><https://www.google.com/search?q=scales+of+justice&tbm=isch>
>Modern justice is dispensed by the dollar, not by the pound.
>
>Locally, the courts now require that all court documents be submitted
>electronically, thus reducing the paper problem. I'm not sure of the
>effect, but the local stationary stores haven't sold green bar paper
>in many years. I guess justice will now be dispensed by the megabyte
>(and the dollar).
distant planet where civil cases were extremely rare. It seems that
the inhabitants of the planet wee a bit on the "wild side" and when
the judge announced his findings in a case the spectators at the trial
leaped from their seats and literally tore the losing attorney apart.
I'm not sure whether that is applicably on all cases but it does seem
appropriate in some :-)
--
cheers,
John B.
Jeff Liebermann
Sep 4, 2016, 9:18:03 PM9/4/16
to
On Mon, 05 Sep 2016 06:31:50 +0700, John B. <slocom...@gmail.xyz>
wrote:
>Regarding civil law, I once read a science fiction story about some
>distant planet where civil cases were extremely rare. It seems that
>the inhabitants of the planet wee a bit on the "wild side" and when
>the judge announced his findings in a case the spectators at the trial
>leaped from their seats and literally tore the losing attorney apart.
>
>I'm not sure whether that is applicably on all cases but it does seem
>appropriate in some :-)
It's called "loser pays" in Europe and other parts of the civilized
world. However, in the wild west, also known as the USA, the object
of the game is to outspend and bankrupt your opponent in a civil
trial. Last man standing is deemed the winner of the case as the
opposition runs out of cash to pursue attorney fees, court fees,
witness fees, investigation fees, research fees, records production
and reproduction fees, bribes, political contributions, and other
costs of litigation. It's not unusual to spend more than the value of
any possible court awarded damages.
I haven't seen any cases where the spectators assault the loser. More
commonly, they assault or sue the winner in the hope of getting a
piece of the award to just go away. However, I have seen judgments
where both parties were seriously tempted to assault the judge. Ever
notice that "blind justice" carries a sword for self defense?
<https://www.google.com/search?q=blind+justice&tbm=isch>
Sometimes, I suspect that trial by combat was a more economical and
possibly equitable method.
wrote:
>Regarding civil law, I once read a science fiction story about some
>distant planet where civil cases were extremely rare. It seems that
>the inhabitants of the planet wee a bit on the "wild side" and when
>the judge announced his findings in a case the spectators at the trial
>leaped from their seats and literally tore the losing attorney apart.
>
>I'm not sure whether that is applicably on all cases but it does seem
>appropriate in some :-)
world. However, in the wild west, also known as the USA, the object
of the game is to outspend and bankrupt your opponent in a civil
trial. Last man standing is deemed the winner of the case as the
opposition runs out of cash to pursue attorney fees, court fees,
witness fees, investigation fees, research fees, records production
and reproduction fees, bribes, political contributions, and other
costs of litigation. It's not unusual to spend more than the value of
any possible court awarded damages.
I haven't seen any cases where the spectators assault the loser. More
commonly, they assault or sue the winner in the hope of getting a
piece of the award to just go away. However, I have seen judgments
where both parties were seriously tempted to assault the judge. Ever
notice that "blind justice" carries a sword for self defense?
<https://www.google.com/search?q=blind+justice&tbm=isch>
Sometimes, I suspect that trial by combat was a more economical and
possibly equitable method.
Jeff Liebermann
Sep 4, 2016, 9:44:19 PM9/4/16
to
>A few years ago, I used a laboratory dead weight pressure tester to
>check the calibration on my collection of tire pressure gauges.
Yep, that's what I used.
>check the calibration on my collection of tire pressure gauges.
>To my
>surprise, the most accurate were the pencil-style gages, the ones based
>on a simple coil spring and piston. My floor pump (an ancient metal
>Nashbar model with bourdon tube gage) was off by 7 psi, reading 100 psi
>at a true 93 psi. A pocket sized Zefal gage with a dial was off by
>nearly as much.
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/misc/slides/bicycle-pumps.html>
(Missing are 3 floor pumps, 1 foot pump, various automotive tire
inflators, and a few home made electric inflators).
>It is possible to calibrate bourdon tube gages, but I just used a magic
>marker to write "Add 7 psi" on the side of the pump. Really, even a 7
>percent discrepancy makes little difference when riding.
<http://www.academia.edu/14648443/CALIBRATION_OF_BOURDON_GAUGE>
it seems that the calibration is roughly a percentage of the indicated
pressure, rather than a percentage of full scale.
Incidentally, the error found in the last reading was 5.9
kNewtons/meter^2 which is 0.86 psi. Looks like the gauge they were
testing is much better than the most bicycle pumps. The table also
shows zero hystersis, much better than the few gauges I've checked.
jbeattie
Sep 5, 2016, 2:15:00 PM9/5/16
to
On Sunday, September 4, 2016 at 6:18:03 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Sep 2016 06:31:50 +0700, John B. <slocom...@gmail.xyz>
> wrote:
>
> >Regarding civil law, I once read a science fiction story about some
> >distant planet where civil cases were extremely rare. It seems that
> >the inhabitants of the planet wee a bit on the "wild side" and when
> >the judge announced his findings in a case the spectators at the trial
> >leaped from their seats and literally tore the losing attorney apart.
> >
> >I'm not sure whether that is applicably on all cases but it does seem
> >appropriate in some :-)
>
> It's called "loser pays" in Europe and other parts of the civilized
> world. However, in the wild west, also known as the USA, the object
> of the game is to outspend and bankrupt your opponent in a civil
> trial. Last man standing is deemed the winner of the case as the
> opposition runs out of cash to pursue attorney fees, court fees,
> witness fees, investigation fees, research fees, records production
> and reproduction fees, bribes, political contributions, and other
> costs of litigation. It's not unusual to spend more than the value of
> any possible court awarded damages.
>
There are plenty of "loser pays" statutes -- any claim under the employment laws, landlord tenant, consumer fraud, most IP statutes, debt collection, etc., etc. Personal injury claims over a certain dollar amount typically don't include a right to fees -- just the fear of a giant judgment -- except in Colorado and some other states with aggressive tort reform statutes: http://www.denverpost.com/2016/06/30/cinemark-aurora-theater-shooting-victims-legal-fees/
> On Mon, 05 Sep 2016 06:31:50 +0700, John B. <slocom...@gmail.xyz>
> wrote:
>
> >Regarding civil law, I once read a science fiction story about some
> >distant planet where civil cases were extremely rare. It seems that
> >the inhabitants of the planet wee a bit on the "wild side" and when
> >the judge announced his findings in a case the spectators at the trial
> >leaped from their seats and literally tore the losing attorney apart.
> >
> >I'm not sure whether that is applicably on all cases but it does seem
> >appropriate in some :-)
>
> It's called "loser pays" in Europe and other parts of the civilized
> world. However, in the wild west, also known as the USA, the object
> of the game is to outspend and bankrupt your opponent in a civil
> trial. Last man standing is deemed the winner of the case as the
> opposition runs out of cash to pursue attorney fees, court fees,
> witness fees, investigation fees, research fees, records production
> and reproduction fees, bribes, political contributions, and other
> costs of litigation. It's not unusual to spend more than the value of
> any possible court awarded damages.
>
BTW, except in bench trials, juries set the dollar amount of the judgment, subject to whatever caps might exist in a particular state. Juries are given instructions and render verdicts. The right to a jury trial in civil cases is guaranteed under most state constitutions. Juries are appropriate for resolving certain disputes and not others.
-- Jay Beattie.
Jeff Liebermann
Sep 6, 2016, 11:28:57 AM9/6/16
to
On Mon, 5 Sep 2016 11:14:58 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com>
wrote:
>There are plenty of "loser pays" statutes -- any claim under the employment
>laws, landlord tenant, consumer fraud, most IP statutes, debt collection,
>etc., etc. Personal injury claims over a certain dollar amount typically
>don't include a right to fees -- just the fear of a giant judgment
>-- except in Colorado and some other states with aggressive tort reform statutes:
> http://www.denverpost.com/2016/06/30/cinemark-aurora-theater-shooting-victims-legal-fees/
>
>BTW, except in bench trials, juries set the dollar amount of the judgment,
>subject to whatever caps might exist in a particular state. Juries are
>given instructions and render verdicts. The right to a jury trial in civil
>cases is guaranteed under most state constitutions.
>
>-- Jay Beattie.
As I understand it, both parties only pay their own attorney fees. I'm
not sure how the court costs and various fees are distributed.
"Attorney Fees: Does the Losing Side Have to Pay?"
<http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/attorney-fees-does-losing-side-30337.html>
"In the United States, the general rule (called the American Rule)
is that each party pays only their own attorney's fees, regardless
of whether they win or lose."
Of course, there are exceptions to everything in the US legal system:
"U.S. courts do have significant discretion when it comes to
the awarding of attorneys' fees, and while judges do not generally
like departing from the American Rule, they may require a losing
side to pay the other's attorneys' fees in certain limited
situations."
In other words, the judge and/or jury can stick the loser with all the
costs if they're so inclined or vindictive.
>Juries are appropriate
>for resolving certain disputes and not others.
Yep. If you're innocent, let the judge decide. If you're guilty, get
a jury, which tends to rule more on emotion and preconceived
impressions than a judge.
How did we ever get this far off topic?
Never mind... I don't want to know. Probably my fault.
wrote:
>There are plenty of "loser pays" statutes -- any claim under the employment
>laws, landlord tenant, consumer fraud, most IP statutes, debt collection,
>etc., etc. Personal injury claims over a certain dollar amount typically
>don't include a right to fees -- just the fear of a giant judgment
>-- except in Colorado and some other states with aggressive tort reform statutes:
> http://www.denverpost.com/2016/06/30/cinemark-aurora-theater-shooting-victims-legal-fees/
>
>BTW, except in bench trials, juries set the dollar amount of the judgment,
>subject to whatever caps might exist in a particular state. Juries are
>given instructions and render verdicts. The right to a jury trial in civil
>cases is guaranteed under most state constitutions.
>
As I understand it, both parties only pay their own attorney fees. I'm
not sure how the court costs and various fees are distributed.
"Attorney Fees: Does the Losing Side Have to Pay?"
<http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/attorney-fees-does-losing-side-30337.html>
"In the United States, the general rule (called the American Rule)
is that each party pays only their own attorney's fees, regardless
of whether they win or lose."
Of course, there are exceptions to everything in the US legal system:
"U.S. courts do have significant discretion when it comes to
the awarding of attorneys' fees, and while judges do not generally
like departing from the American Rule, they may require a losing
side to pay the other's attorneys' fees in certain limited
situations."
In other words, the judge and/or jury can stick the loser with all the
costs if they're so inclined or vindictive.
>Juries are appropriate
>for resolving certain disputes and not others.
a jury, which tends to rule more on emotion and preconceived
impressions than a judge.
How did we ever get this far off topic?
Never mind... I don't want to know. Probably my fault.
Gregory Sutter
Sep 8, 2016, 4:14:27 AM9/8/16
to
On 2016-09-01, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> On 9/1/2016 12:08 AM, Tim McNamara wrote:
>> My 20+ year old Silca Super Pista pump has, for the first time,
>> malfunctioned and needs repair.
>
> On 9/1/2016 12:08 AM, Tim McNamara wrote:
>> My 20+ year old Silca Super Pista pump has, for the first time,
>> malfunctioned and needs repair.
>
> Unless it was badly smacked around, replace the screw,
> tighten both of them (moderately, you're threading into a
> brass block). If needed, lift the needle off and press it
> back at the zero position. Try not to bend/move/alter the
> bourdon tube[1] or its linkage in any way.
>
> Now is a good time to check/tighten the two screws on the
> very bottom as they work loose over years of use. You might
> also remove the checkvalve and clear out any crud, a common
> service issue on these.
>
> [1] looks like a brass tortellini with soldered seams.
Thanks, Andy; yesterday I disassembled, cleaned andlubed my
> tighten both of them (moderately, you're threading into a
> brass block). If needed, lift the needle off and press it
> back at the zero position. Try not to bend/move/alter the
> bourdon tube[1] or its linkage in any way.
>
> Now is a good time to check/tighten the two screws on the
> very bottom as they work loose over years of use. You might
> also remove the checkvalve and clear out any crud, a common
> service issue on these.
>
> [1] looks like a brass tortellini with soldered seams.
Silca pump, which now works much better. Leather washer was
still well-lubed and supple, so the leakage was via the dry
gasket on the check valve.
Does anyone know where I can get a top spring for this pump,
shown here (second image)? Mine's missing.
http://www.terapeak.com/worth/vintage-silca-floor-pump-presta-15-bar-240-psi-black-made-in-italy/391375008872/
--
Gregory S. Sutter Mostly Harmless
Gregory Sutter
Sep 8, 2016, 4:20:05 AM9/8/16
to
On 2016-09-02, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Sep 2016 12:48:18 +0700, John B. <slocom...@gmail.xyz>
> wrote:
>
>>But how do you know that the calibration gauge is reading correctly?
>
> On Fri, 02 Sep 2016 12:48:18 +0700, John B. <slocom...@gmail.xyz>
> wrote:
>
>>But how do you know that the calibration gauge is reading correctly?
>
> It's actually quite easy. I drag myself over to the local
> multiversity, prostate myself before the keeper of the calibration lab
Santa Cruz is a special place indeed if that kind of behavior is what
> multiversity, prostate myself before the keeper of the calibration lab
gets you assistance at the university, you perv!
(ITYM prostrate.)
--
Gregory S. Sutter Mostly Harmless
http://zer0.org/~gsutter/
AMuzi
Sep 8, 2016, 9:15:17 AM9/8/16
to
and in fact my own (very old) Silca and the ones we sell
here don't have that.
Jeff Liebermann
Sep 8, 2016, 12:16:03 PM9/8/16
to
On Thu, 08 Sep 2016 03:19:58 -0500, Gregory Sutter <gsu...@zer0.org>
wrote:
>On 2016-09-02, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 02 Sep 2016 12:48:18 +0700, John B. <slocom...@gmail.xyz>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>But how do you know that the calibration gauge is reading correctly?
>>
>> It's actually quite easy. I drag myself over to the local
>> multiversity, prostate myself before the keeper of the calibration lab
>
>Santa Cruz is a special place indeed if that kind of behavior is what
>gets you assistance at the university, you perv!
>
>(ITYM prostrate.)
Oops. I had my cancerous prostate surgically removed many years ago
which makes me think in those terms. I would consider offering body
parts in trade for a gauge calibration, but suspect I would be getting
the losing part of the bargain. Conventional bribes seem to work well
enough.
wrote:
>On 2016-09-02, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
>> On Fri, 02 Sep 2016 12:48:18 +0700, John B. <slocom...@gmail.xyz>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>But how do you know that the calibration gauge is reading correctly?
>>
>> It's actually quite easy. I drag myself over to the local
>> multiversity, prostate myself before the keeper of the calibration lab
>
>Santa Cruz is a special place indeed if that kind of behavior is what
>gets you assistance at the university, you perv!
>
>(ITYM prostrate.)
which makes me think in those terms. I would consider offering body
parts in trade for a gauge calibration, but suspect I would be getting
the losing part of the bargain. Conventional bribes seem to work well
enough.
Gregory Sutter
Sep 8, 2016, 1:23:50 PM9/8/16
to
That spring keeps the pump handle from going "clunk" at the bottom
of every stroke, analogously to the internal spring, just above the
leather washer, which does the same at the top of each stroke.
--
Gregory S. Sutter Mostly Harmless
http://zer0.org/~gsutter/
John B.
Sep 8, 2016, 9:02:10 PM9/8/16
to
predating the 10 Speed English Racer :-). I'd always assumed it was to
prevent an enthusiastic pumper from banging the pump plunger down on
the bottom of the pump cylinder.
--
cheers,
John B.
AMuzi
Sep 9, 2016, 8:28:38 AM9/9/16
to
tires inflated.
Jeff Liebermann
Sep 9, 2016, 1:31:06 PM9/9/16
to
>Hardware store? It's not clear to me what that spring does
>and in fact my own (very old) Silca and the ones we sell
>here don't have that.
My guess(tm) is that the spring is lawyer repellent. If your hand
>and in fact my own (very old) Silca and the ones we sell
>here don't have that.
comes to a sudden stop at the end of travel, you could injure yourself
from the impact. Someone may have complained or sued, resulting in
the added spring to slow down the plunger. The impact might also
break some internal plastic parts.
John B.
Sep 9, 2016, 7:38:03 PM9/9/16
to
On Fri, 09 Sep 2016 10:31:05 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:
>On Thu, 08 Sep 2016 08:15:13 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>>Hardware store? It's not clear to me what that spring does
>>and in fact my own (very old) Silca and the ones we sell
>>here don't have that.
>
>My guess(tm) is that the spring is lawyer repellent. If your hand
>comes to a sudden stop at the end of travel, you could injure yourself
>from the impact. Someone may have complained or sued, resulting in
>the added spring to slow down the plunger. The impact might also
>break some internal plastic parts.
I saw the upper spring on hand pumps way back when I was a kid -
before the "sue you" mania began, way back when they were known as
"tire pumps" and people used them to up all kinds of tires, not just
bicycle tires.
--
cheers,
John B.
wrote:
>On Thu, 08 Sep 2016 08:15:13 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>>Hardware store? It's not clear to me what that spring does
>>and in fact my own (very old) Silca and the ones we sell
>>here don't have that.
>
>My guess(tm) is that the spring is lawyer repellent. If your hand
>comes to a sudden stop at the end of travel, you could injure yourself
>from the impact. Someone may have complained or sued, resulting in
>the added spring to slow down the plunger. The impact might also
>break some internal plastic parts.
before the "sue you" mania began, way back when they were known as
"tire pumps" and people used them to up all kinds of tires, not just
bicycle tires.
--
cheers,
John B.
John B.
Sep 9, 2016, 8:14:19 PM9/9/16
to
of the cylinder, it simply slows the stroke down as it approaches the
bottom of the stroke.... so it doesn't bang against the bottom of the
cylinder. http://tinyurl.com/z7hxujg
--
cheers,
John B.
Gregory Sutter
Sep 10, 2016, 12:43:40 AM9/10/16
to
--
Gregory S. Sutter Mostly Harmless
http://zer0.org/~gsutter/
Tim McNamara
Sep 10, 2016, 10:29:46 PM9/10/16
to
> The impact might also break some internal plastic parts.
One of the reasons I have kept this pump for 25+ years is that there are
no internal plastic parts. Steel, brass, leather, n O-ring or two.
Hmm, though, now that I think about it vaguely remember a nylon washer
or something down there at the business end of the plunger... But
sturdy enough for decades of service- hopefully it will see me out, just
another 30 or so years probably. Seems like it should last, after this
bit of a scare.
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