A group ride

[NFN Smith]

I normally don't ride in groups. It's not so much that I'm not
interested, so much as it is of finding a group that matches my fitness
and skill levels, as well as timing of rides. If I'm riding by myself,
most of the time, I'm starting from home, and all I have to do is get
dressed, get on my bike and start riding. For a group event, a lot more
time, of getting the bike put in the car and then driving to the meeting
point (and then reverse at the end of the ride). For my current level
of fitness, the ride itself is probably pushing my limits, so I'm not
one that can ride several miles extra to/from the meeting point.

On Saturday, I did go out for a group event. It was a no-drop one, and
the distance wasn't too far. There was just enough hilly terrain that
the group broke up after a while (and before a regroup) there wasn't as
much group effect of efficiencies of riding together.

Because I ride in groups infrequently enough, I always have to spend a
little time adjusting to group etiquette. Follow distance, but also
signaling -- turns, stops and especially road hazards. Unfortunately,
when I ride alone, I sometimes tend to be oblivious about road hazards,
where I don't notice a hazard until when I ride over it. I hate when
that happens, and it's embarrassing if I miss something when somebody
else is behind me.

For this particular group, it's interesting that I've had people
explicitly notice my steel Bianchi, and ask about it. It's not really
old (early 2000s), and new enough to have Shimano STI shifters, but a
lot of the other people in the group are riding aluminum or carbon fiber
bikes with disk brakes and all that.

Hopefully things will work out where I can ride with this group again.

Smith

[Frank Krygowski]

A good friend of ours told us about a group ride she was on about a week
ago. As she related, two guys riding behind her were commenting in
detail about her very beautiful 1980s vintage touring bike - remarking
in her downtube shifters, her triple cranks, counting her 5 or 6 rear
cogs, etc. She felt weird that they didn't include her in the conversation.

Until one of them finally asked "Is that the bike you rode over the
Rockies on your long tour?" She said "On _one_ of my long tours."

One guy said "Wow." As if he didn't believe it could be possible.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Catrike Rider]

One of the many reasons I'll never ride in a group, is having to
listen idle jibber jabber like that. Oh yes, there are many more
reasons....

[Mark Cleary]

i would ride with a group if they left within the time I like, which is very early in the morning. Before sunrise on days I can. If the group was easy to get to and I did not have to drive to get there. If the group was within my fitness level. Truthfully this is just not going to happen and you get more miles and bang for the buck just riding from home. I have in the past gotten in on groups riding but I find the whole paceline thing and signals and process more that I like. Sometimes on a really steep hill I like to try and fly down and likewis just ease up the puppy. I don't think group rides work
Deacon mark

[Lou Holtman]

I don’t ride with strangers in a group. On weekdays I ride alone and on Sunday’s with friends. Max group size of 8 but most of the times around 5-6. We have meaningful conversations and don’t talk about equipment.

Lou

[Tom Kunich]

I very much used to like group rides until they began becoming group races. And that was when I was actually faster than all but one of the group. I liked to hang back with the group and converse. Now I probably wouldn't have the breath. But there are A and B rides out of many clubs.

[Catrike Rider]

On Fri, 4 Aug 2023 12:49:30 -0700 (PDT), Mark Cleary
<deaco...@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm not inclined to let other people decide when, where, and how fast
I ride, when and where I take a rest stop, and what's worse, sometimes
you have to pay to go on group rides. The idea that I'd pay someone to
tell me what to do isn't going to fly.

[John B.]

Along the same lines I've found that groups rides always end up with a
certain amount of competition - I'll get up the hill before you do -
and I'd rather ride at my tempo, whatever it is that morning. Some
days it is nose down and arse up.and push all the way and some days it
is a "take it easy day". And it is MY decision :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 8/4/2023 3:49 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
> ... you get more miles and bang for the buck just riding from home. I have

in the past gotten in on groups riding but I find the whole paceline
thing and signals and process more that I like. Sometimes on a really
steep hill I like to try and fly down and likewis just ease up the
puppy. I don't think group rides work

It depends on the group, of course, and on one's own preferences at the
time. I've had great fun in some pacelines and some speed or endurance
rides. But overall I've had much more fun on just friendly rides where
the objective is seeing the countryside, having pleasant conversations,
exploring new routes, etc.

It does take some cooperation. If the plan is to do (say) 40 miles at a
moderate pace, however the group defines that, the participants
shouldn't spontaneously change to 65 miles instead. Ditto for pace:
don't go way faster than agreed upon.

If the group has a "no drop" policy, someone should be kind enough to
watch out for newbies in over their head, or people who may be having a
terrible day. But at the same time, people should be able to correctly
assess their capabilities and not show up for a ride that's beyond their
strength level. That's also an act of kindness, so as to not ruin
others' rides.

As for "miles and bang for the buck," it depends what you're after. If
for some reason a person's motivation is to tailor their ride precisely
to their own desires, then of course they're welcome to ride solo. For
the Deacon, that would be like praying alone at home. But most people do
get value, learning, motivation etc. out of contact with others. That's
one reason we have churches, right?

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Catrike Rider]

On Sat, 05 Aug 2023 07:13:05 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
wrote:

I'd pay to not ride in a group, or worse, belong to a bicycle club and
attend one of their gossip events, on bicycles or otherwise.

[William Crowell]

I will never again go on a group ride. It's too dangerous. There are too many squirelly riders who will take you down.

[Catrike Rider]

On Sat, 5 Aug 2023 05:32:49 -0700 (PDT), William Crowell
<retrog...@gmail.com> wrote:

Indeed, and they're also often dangerous to other riders. I've been
run off the trail a couple of times by groups to too intent on
socializing to pay attention to what they're doing.

[Mark Cleary]

Frank that is quite a leap going from a group ride discussion to going to Church. I don't see the connection or analogy working out in any fashion. I have limited time with a bike to ride so I tailor to what I like and need. Praying at home alone is fine but by definition the Church is made up of the individuals that make up the body of Christ. The highest form of Worship is the Roman Catholic Mass. It is perfect offering that has unlimited benefits. It has zero to do with bang for you buck much less a group ride. There is no such thing as a private Mass that is an oxymoron since it is the Communion of the Saints.
Deacon Mark

[Roger Meriman]

Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> On 8/4/2023 3:49 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>> ... you get more miles and bang for the buck just riding from home. I have
> in the past gotten in on groups riding but I find the whole paceline
> thing and signals and process more that I like. Sometimes on a really
> steep hill I like to try and fly down and likewis just ease up the
> puppy. I don't think group rides work
>
>
> It depends on the group, of course, and on one's own preferences at the
> time. I've had great fun in some pacelines and some speed or endurance
> rides. But overall I've had much more fun on just friendly rides where
> the objective is seeing the countryside, having pleasant conversations,
> exploring new routes, etc.

That is my point of club rides, to be social and possibly to show folks
some of the Gravel stuff out there.

If I want to go fast I’ll go solo realistically while plenty are fitter
than me, I’m a experienced technical rider I’ll clear climbs others walk
and so on. Let alone my ability to drop off mountains!

>
> It does take some cooperation. If the plan is to do (say) 40 miles at a
> moderate pace, however the group defines that, the participants
> shouldn't spontaneously change to 65 miles instead. Ditto for pace:
> don't go way faster than agreed upon.
>
> If the group has a "no drop" policy, someone should be kind enough to
> watch out for newbies in over their head, or people who may be having a
> terrible day. But at the same time, people should be able to correctly
> assess their capabilities and not show up for a ride that's beyond their
> strength level. That's also an act of kindness, so as to not ruin
> others' rides.
>
> As for "miles and bang for the buck," it depends what you're after. If
> for some reason a person's motivation is to tailor their ride precisely
> to their own desires, then of course they're welcome to ride solo. For
> the Deacon, that would be like praying alone at home. But most people do
> get value, learning, motivation etc. out of contact with others. That's
> one reason we have churches, right?
>

Roger Merriman

[William Crowell]

As a confirmed atheist, I have a really hard time figuring out why you believe that kind of thing, Mark.

[Mark Cleary]

William you can believe anything you want but the Lord is talking to you and you just have not heard it yet. No problem it can happen but that is up to God.
Deacon Mark

[Catrike Rider]

On Sat, 05 Aug 2023 14:32:24 GMT, Roger Meriman <ro...@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> On 8/4/2023 3:49 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>>> ... you get more miles and bang for the buck just riding from home. I have
>> in the past gotten in on groups riding but I find the whole paceline
>> thing and signals and process more that I like. Sometimes on a really
>> steep hill I like to try and fly down and likewis just ease up the
>> puppy. I don't think group rides work
>>
>>
>> It depends on the group, of course, and on one's own preferences at the
>> time. I've had great fun in some pacelines and some speed or endurance
>> rides. But overall I've had much more fun on just friendly rides where
>> the objective is seeing the countryside, having pleasant conversations,
>> exploring new routes, etc.
>
>That is my point of club rides, to be social and possibly to show folks
>some of the Gravel stuff out there.

I don't ride to be social. One reason I do ride is for the relative
solitude it provides.

[NFN Smith]

Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 8/4/2023 3:49 PM, Mark Cleary wrote:
>> ...   you get more miles and bang for the buck just riding from home.

For my current level of fitness, just the defined ride is close to the
max I can handle.

>
>
> It depends on the group, of course, and on one's own preferences at the
> time. I've had great fun in some pacelines and some speed or endurance
> rides. But overall I've had much more fun on just friendly rides where
> the objective is seeing the countryside, having pleasant conversations,
> exploring new routes, etc.

That's definitely the kind of thing that I'm looking for.

>
> It does take some cooperation. If the plan is to do (say) 40 miles at a
> moderate pace, however the group defines that, the participants
> shouldn't spontaneously change to 65 miles instead. Ditto for pace:
> don't go way faster than agreed upon.

Agreed.

>
> If the group has a "no drop" policy, someone should be kind enough to
> watch out for newbies in over their head, or people who may be having a
> terrible day. But at the same time, people should be able to correctly
> assess their capabilities and not show up for a ride that's beyond their
> strength level. That's also an act of kindness, so as to not ruin
> others' rides.

And for this group, the ride organizer normally rides sweep at the back.
I rode with this group several times a few years back, and it's
definitely a friendly group. There are certainly riders that are faster
than others, but I get the sense of respect from the fastest ones toward
the slowest. And I was pleased to find that I was riding pretty much in
the middle of the group (around 19, I think).

>
> As for "miles and bang for the buck," it depends what you're after. If
> for some reason a person's motivation is to tailor their ride precisely
> to their own desires, then of course they're welcome to ride solo. For
> the Deacon, that would be like praying alone at home. But most people do
> get value, learning, motivation etc. out of contact with others. That's
> one reason we have churches, right?
>

I would agree. I ride plenty of miles by myself, and so riding with a
group occasionally is a nice change of pace. But for religious
expression, there are appropriate places for both private prayer as well
as group interaction. They're different, and one isn't a substitute for
the other.

Smith

[Frank Krygowski]

Sorry if that somehow offended you. One of my good friends is a Catholic
priest. Theological questions aside, he certainly sees the many benefits
of social interaction in a church setting. Many sociologists are also
well aware of those same benefits.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Catrike Rider]

On Sat, 5 Aug 2023 17:30:07 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 8/5/2023 10:21 AM, Mark Cleary wrote:

I evaluated church as a kid. It seemed to me then, as it does now, as
another fear based tactic to control people. I contemplated the
notion of where I cannot even imagine how much God loves me, but if I
don't do what the Sunday School teachers say, God will send me to the
horrors of Hell for eternity.

I think my first questions arose when I heard how Jesus said you
should pray quietly alone, instead of making a big production of it.

It kind of peeved me when some guy told me to bow my head so he could
speak for me. Even at seven or eight years old I was perfectly capable
of speaking for myself, so I ignored the guys ranting and raving and
contemplated on what I was going to do the rest of the day.

Mind you, I wasn't being an atheist, and today, being smart enough to
know that I don't know everything, I'm more of an agnostic. My
argument was, and still is, with the church(s). I was raised by
wonderful parents who attended church regularly, My mom played the
organ in church, which was founded in part by my great grandparents.

Oh, wait, the bicycle connection is that, over the years, I've ridden
bicycles to church, and recently, I put a new chain on a preacher's
son's bicycle.

[Mark Cleary]

Catrike, I want you to know that what you just said was incredibly great. I firmly believe that the Lord is in fact with you agnostic as it seems. Please keep riding your bike and being the person God intended you to be. Clearly you have heard His voice.
Deacon Mark

[John B.]

On Sat, 5 Aug 2023 05:32:49 -0700 (PDT), William Crowell
<retrog...@gmail.com> wrote:

In 2912 the California made a study of accidents in Los Angeles
County. There were a total of 4,637 "accidents" involving a bicycle
and an auto. Of these some 59% were deemed to be caused by the Cyclist
and 40% were the fault of the Auto.

Which would seem to be an indication of the safety in groups of
bicycles :-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

Perhaps the greatest argument against religion, or more specifically
the "Abrahamic religions" is the three major adherents have been
merrily slaughtering each other, "In the name of God!", for centuries.

In mitigation it must be said that this practice is not limited to the
Abrahamic religions but seems to be common to all human societies.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Catrike Rider]

On Sun, 06 Aug 2023 09:04:54 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
wrote:

To be clear, I'm not arguing against religion. I believe that in many
cases, it's a positive force. It's just that I can't accept what I
percieve as the dogmatic hypocracy of the organized religions.

Granted, that seems to work for some, but not for me.

[AMuzi]

Uh, Hindus and Moslems?
Or Han Chinese and everyone else?
Or Tutsis and Hutus for that matter.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[AMuzi]

We Stoics know the questions will be resolved in their own
time. I accept that.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 8/5/2023 9:33 PM, John B. wrote:
>
> In 2912 the California made a study of accidents in Los Angeles
> County. There were a total of 4,637 "accidents" involving a bicycle
> and an auto. Of these some 59% were deemed to be caused by the Cyclist
> and 40% were the fault of the Auto.
>
> Which would seem to be an indication of the safety in groups of
> bicycles :-)

I don't doubt your data. I strongly doubt your conclusions.

The vast majority of car-bike crashes involve just one cyclist and one
car. It has absolutely nothing to do with group riding.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Tom Kunich]

In Israel, the Christians are almost entirely Arabs with no axes to grind.

[Tom Kunich]

Paging down through the layers of rock in the Grand Canyon, there are NO intermediate species. So Evolution did not exist.

[Tom Kunich]

Just like Weddings or burials, groups of bicyclists are generally recognized as having group right of way. John is not a bicyclist and never was so he doesn't understand that. Furthermore, conclusions on fault in accidents is generally a he said, she said matter that is opinion more than legal findings.

That woman that hit me claimed that I came out of nowhere and she might very well have gotten away with it with anyone other than motorcycle cops.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 12:23:03 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>In Israel, the Christians are almost entirely Arabs with no axes to grind.

Amazing. Tom, you got something half correct.

Almost all the Christians are also Arab. However, there are those who
are still fighting the Crusades, where Arabs and Christians didn't do
well at beating swords into plowshares. This appears in the very
different ways that the Jews, Christians and Arabs view current
political issues. See the Pew report below:

"5 facts about Israeli Christians" (May 10, 2016)
<https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2016/05/10/5-facts-about-israeli-christians/>
"Christians currently make up just 2% of Israel’s adult population.
Indeed, as of 2010, Christians made up a small share (4%) of the
population in the Middle East-North Africa region as a whole."
<https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2016/02/PF_2016.03.08_israel-01-01.png>

The original report (March 8, 2016):
<https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2016/03/08/israels-religiously-divided-society/>
<https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2016/03/Israel-Survey-Full-Report.pdf>
(237 pages)
"Virtually all Muslims (99%) and Christians (96%) surveyed in Israel
identify as Arab."

Some later numbers:
"Christians in Israel" (2020)
<https://www.cbs.gov.il/en/mediarelease/Pages/2020/Christmas-2020-Christians-in-Israel.aspx>
"On the eve of Christmas 2020, approximately 180,000 Christians live
in Israel; they comprise about 2% of the State of Israel's
population."
"77.1% of the Christians in Israel are Arab Christians. They
constitute 7.1% of the total Arab population of Israel."

Score: 2 claims, 1 right, one wrong, neither substantiated.


--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 12:25:02 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Paging down through the layers of rock in the Grand Canyon, there are NO intermediate species. So Evolution did not exist.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 8/6/2023 3:25 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> Paging down through the layers of rock in the Grand Canyon, there are NO intermediate species. So Evolution did not exist.

Hmm. I'm wondering what you're visualizing, Tom. Are you saying current
species have always existed? That everything from trilobites to
tyrannosaurs never existed?

I'm just curious to see how you think.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Lou Holtman]

I'm always surprised that people deny evolution but believe that a higher power did all that over night.

Lou

[Tom Kunich]

Every place on Earth where they've been able to study the progression of species has the same problem - there are NO intermediate species. You can interpret that any way you like. Also at the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah where the bible said God destroyed these cities completely, the shards of pottery have been found to have a finish only found on pottery at the sites of thermonuclear weapons. So you are free to believe anything you like until judgement day. At that time your beliefs will be judged.

[Tom Kunich]

Lou, there is NO intermediate evolutionary steps for the large cat species found on every continent with climatic conditions that allow cats to live there. If you CANNOT find an intermediate species for the largest felines on Earth how do you propose that evolution can do anything but modify species for the changing climactic conditions? You can go on - what was the intermediate species for Bison that used to have herds that took days to pass Indian villages. Bears, horses etc.

We CAN see evolution, but its effects are very minor and the intermediate species that made the initial species is not there. There is NO intermediate species for man There were three or four humanoid species that went extinct and did NOT evolve into humans. Which is preposterous anyway since humans have only been here for some 2 hundred thousand years - completely insufficient time to evolve from the other humanoids.

Evolution scientists are stuck claiming that there are periods of massive and rapid evolution that are too quick to leave traces. And so large a change that intermediate species cannot be identified. You may believe in a carpenter that became a fisher of men or not. But you will be faced with it in the end. While I eschew organized religions, the Bible inevitably proves itself of more worth as a history book than most of the studied histories.

[John B.]

On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 15:13:10 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yes apparently evidence has been found of two cities apparently
bestrode by fire have been found but the destruction is, I believe
attributed to a meteor air burst as occurred in Russia, on the morning
of 30 June 1908 refereed to as "The Tunguska event".

If you want to attribute the destruction of the ancient cities to the
God of Abraham then you are certainly free to do so. But what about
the Tunguska event? Did the same God do that?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Sun, 6 Aug 2023 12:30:29 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Well Tommy I've ridden a bicycle in, lets see... Japan, Vietnam,
Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia.
Oh yes! In the U.S. too... New Hampshire, Florida and California.
Doesn't that count?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

Or the Shia and Sunni groups, or historically the Church of England
and the Catholic Church or the Mormans and about everyone else, or, or
or :-)

And even within the "Han" classification some language groups feel
superior to other language groups :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 8/6/2023 6:13 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Sunday, August 6, 2023 at 2:08:19 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 8/6/2023 3:25 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>
>>> Paging down through the layers of rock in the Grand Canyon, there are NO intermediate species. So Evolution did not exist.
>> Hmm. I'm wondering what you're visualizing, Tom. Are you saying current
>> species have always existed? That everything from trilobites to
>> tyrannosaurs never existed?
>>
>> I'm just curious to see how you think.
>>
>> --
>> - Frank Krygowski
>
> Every place on Earth where they've been able to study the progression of species has the same problem - there are NO intermediate species.

That's wrong, of course. Here's one well known example among hundreds:
https://equineguelph.ca/learn_objects/evolutiontimeline/timeline.html

Here's another:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felidae

and we can do this all evening.

I'm more interested in your views. Again, are you saying current

species have always existed? That everything from trilobites to

tyrannosaurs never existed? That the fossil record is a fake, planted by
God to test our faith?

Or are you saying that God stepped in and slew most of the ancient
species, then instantaneously replaced them with the ones we now see?

Please, do tell us your views.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Tom Kunich]

I see that your idea of a horse evolving into a larger faster horse more liable to escape predators is a clear demonstration of an intermediate species.

I don't know what God did but clearly you do so why don't you tell us?

[Frank Krygowski]

Ah, Tom, you're a wonder!

I so wish you'd answer the question. I don't plan to argue with you. I'm
just interested in examining your, um, unique modes of thinking.

- Frank Krygowski

[Tom Kunich]

And when you see and intermediate species between a pony and a full size horse one has to wonder what goes on in your mind.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 09:34:36 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>And when you see and intermediate species between a pony and a full size horse one has to wonder what goes on in your mind.

What were you expecting? Two different size horses joined together at
the shoulders?
<https://www.google.com/search?q=centaur&tbm=isch>

Size matters:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_horse>
Notice the evolutionary changes in size:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_horse#/media/File:Extinct_horses.jpg>

More of the same:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=evolution+of+the+horse&tbm=isch>
<https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=evolution+of+the+horse>

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 07 Aug 2023 13:26:30 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

Evolution continues with a little help from the safety committes:
<https://www.wheelhorseforum.com/topic/85194-surprise/?do=findComment&comment=847604>
This is certainly not intelligent design.

[Tom Kunich]

You really can't help yoiurself from each posting being more stupid than your last. https://nypost.com/2021/07/16/wikipedia-co-founder-says-site-is-now-propaganda-for-left-leaning-establishment/

[John B.]

On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 14:30:55 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yup, good old Larry Sanger is critical of the Wikki... You do know
that the Wikki group/company/ whatever kicked him out in 2002 and he
has been "critical" of the group ever since. What do they call
it?"Sour grapes"?

--
Cheers,

John B.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 14:30:55 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 1:26:38?PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 09:34:36 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >And when you see and intermediate species between a pony and a full size horse one has to wonder what goes on in your mind.
>> What were you expecting? Two different size horses joined together at
>> the shoulders?
>> <https://www.google.com/search?q=centaur&tbm=isch>
>>
>> Size matters:
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_horse>
>> Notice the evolutionary changes in size:
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_horse#/media/File:Extinct_horses.jpg>
>>
>> More of the same:
>> <https://www.google.com/search?q=evolution+of+the+horse&tbm=isch>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=evolution+of+the+horse>
>

>You really can't help yoiurself from each posting being more stupid than your last. https://nypost.com/2021/07/16/wikipedia-co-founder-says-site-is-now-propaganda-for-left-leaning-establishment/

Nice change of topic from the evolution of horses to politics. Do you
always change topics when you can't respond effectively? Please don't
assume that nobody notices.

Larry Sanger went on to found Conservapedia, an alternative, right
leaning equivalent of Wikipedia:
<https://www.conservapedia.com>
<https://www.conservapedia.com/Creation_vs._evolution_debates>
Since you don't seem to care about accuracy and facts, you should be
right at home.

There is also Citizendium:
<https://citizendium.org>
<https://citizendium.org/wiki/CZ:We_aren%27t_Wikipedia>
which is another online encyclopedia founded by Larry Sanger.

This is what Wikipedia thinks of these:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservapedia>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizendium>

Also try:
<https://www.britannica.com>

[Tom Kunich]

You believe that others actually take anything you have to say seriously. Believe me Twinkie - that ship sailed so long ago that the only responses you get are from people like Slocomb who has no credibility at all. You're not even worth the effort to laugh at.

But no worry, presently the deaths in the countries where they keep correct records are 30% above normal and it is all among the vaccinated. Remember what I said about an incurable AIDS-like disease. AIDS stands for Acquired ImmunoDeficiency Syndrome. Since you had cancer treatments, your immune system is already semi-crippled. I'll bet you can feel the spike proteins surging through your body with each throb of your heart. You might be lucky. Some people that waste their entire lives, get no exercise and pretend to do things they never did can still carry the extra load until they die a natural death. Maybe you'll be one of the lucky ones. But then you used a whole lot of luck surviving cancer. Until 60 years ago you would be dead from that cancer. The trouble with mRNA vaccines is that it embeds into a cell line the function of making one of the active components of the virus it is attempting to protect against. In case of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines it was the surface spike protein of the SARS-Cov-2 virus. As long as that cell line survives, it will pump out the spike protein and slowly overcome your immune system. Of course you might be lucky and have your immune system attack that specific cell line. But the numbers are against you. Pfizer made a profit but you will pay the price.

Seventy-two senators and 302 members of the House of Representatives cashed a check from the pharmaceutical industry ahead of the 2020 election — representing more than two-thirds of Congress, according to a new STAT analysis of records for the full election cycle.

Your representatives at work for you.

[John B.]

On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 17:17:01 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Ok Tom. A challenge! List the countries that have kept accurate
records and then show us the normal death rate and then the 30% above
normal deaths.

See, we think you are a psychopathic liar and here is your chance to
prove us wrong.

(Of course, we expect Tommy will take his usual path when challenged
and run away and hide his head for a few days and then return with his
usual lies and B.S.)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 8/7/2023 5:30 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Monday, August 7, 2023 at 1:26:38 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Mon, 7 Aug 2023 09:34:36 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> And when you see and intermediate species between a pony and a full size horse one has to wonder what goes on in your mind.
>> What were you expecting? Two different size horses joined together at
>> the shoulders?
>> <https://www.google.com/search?q=centaur&tbm=isch>
>>
>> Size matters:
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_horse>
>> Notice the evolutionary changes in size:
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_of_the_horse#/media/File:Extinct_horses.jpg>
>>
>> More of the same:
>> <https://www.google.com/search?q=evolution+of+the+horse&tbm=isch>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=evolution+of+the+horse>
>> --
>> Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
>> PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
>> Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
>> Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
>

> You really can't help yoiurself ...

Tom, are you embarrassed to explain your evolution views? Why not answer
the questions I asked?

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

Tom, are you embarrassed to explain your evolution views? Why won't you

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

Why wouldn't it be?

[Ted Heise]

On Sun, 06 Aug 2023 10:48:36 -0500,
AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> On 8/6/2023 2:46 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
> > On Sun, 06 Aug 2023 09:04:54 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:

> >> Perhaps the greatest argument against religion, or more
> >> specifically the "Abrahamic religions" is the three major
> >> adherents have been merrily slaughtering each other, "In the
> >> name of God!", for centuries.
> >>
> >> In mitigation it must be said that this practice is not
> >> limited to the Abrahamic religions but seems to be common to
> >> all human societies.
> >

> > To be clear, I'm not arguing against religion. I believe that
> > in many cases, it's a positive force. It's just that I can't
> > accept what I percieve as the dogmatic hypocracy of the
> > organized religions.
> >
> > Granted, that seems to work for some, but not for me.
>
> We Stoics know the questions will be resolved in their own
> time. I accept that.

+1

Or as my departed grandad used to say: "I've been a Cynic ever
since the Stoic brought me."

Regarding the group ride topic, I think somebody else complained
about other riders shifting six inches to the side. I submit that
if such a shift is enough to threaten you, your position is the
problem (i.e., you've overlapped your front wheel with the rider's
rear wheel.

--
Ted Heise <the...@panix.com> West Lafayette, IN, USA

[Frank Krygowski]

On 9/9/2023 10:39 AM, Ted Heise wrote:
>
> Regarding the group ride topic, I think somebody else complained
> about other riders shifting six inches to the side. I submit that
> if such a shift is enough to threaten you, your position is the
> problem (i.e., you've overlapped your front wheel with the rider's
> rear wheel.

I mentioned a woman who repeatedly, habitually twitched 6" left and
right as she rode. My point was it's a symptom of lack of control and/or
instability. I choose not to ride near someone whose control is that dodgy.

I'm surprised anyone would disagree.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Tom Kunich]

On Friday, August 4, 2023 at 8:43:03 AM UTC-7, NFN Smith wrote:
> I normally don't ride in groups. It's not so much that I'm not
> interested, so much as it is of finding a group that matches my fitness
> and skill levels, as well as timing of rides. If I'm riding by myself,
> most of the time, I'm starting from home, and all I have to do is get
> dressed, get on my bike and start riding. For a group event, a lot more
> time, of getting the bike put in the car and then driving to the meeting
> point (and then reverse at the end of the ride). For my current level
> of fitness, the ride itself is probably pushing my limits, so I'm not
> one that can ride several miles extra to/from the meeting point.
>
> On Saturday, I did go out for a group event. It was a no-drop one, and
> the distance wasn't too far. There was just enough hilly terrain that
> the group broke up after a while (and before a regroup) there wasn't as
> much group effect of efficiencies of riding together.
>
> Because I ride in groups infrequently enough, I always have to spend a
> little time adjusting to group etiquette. Follow distance, but also
> signaling -- turns, stops and especially road hazards. Unfortunately,
> when I ride alone, I sometimes tend to be oblivious about road hazards,
> where I don't notice a hazard until when I ride over it. I hate when
> that happens, and it's embarrassing if I miss something when somebody
> else is behind me.
>
> For this particular group, it's interesting that I've had people
> explicitly notice my steel Bianchi, and ask about it. It's not really
> old (early 2000s), and new enough to have Shimano STI shifters, but a
> lot of the other people in the group are riding aluminum or carbon fiber
> bikes with disk brakes and all that.
>
> Hopefully things will work out where I can ride with this group again.
>
> Smith

I ride largely by myself because the roads are now so bad around here that it is dangerous to ride near someone else. Especially on descents.

[Tom Kunich]

I just got back from a ride and one of the guys kept overlapping me. Now he did that several times when there was obvious right turns and he was to my right. And I didn't have room to swing wide. So I don't know how to deal with that. This guy is taking that Tour of Japan. He claimed that they were going to do 4,000 feet of climbing every day. He sure has never been to Japan before, Aside from Fujiyama there isn't a lot of mountains in Japan.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 9 Sep 2023 12:29:50 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>I just got back from a ride and one of the guys kept overlapping me. Now he did that several times when there was obvious right turns and he was to my right. And I didn't have room to swing wide. So I don't know how to deal with that. This guy is taking that Tour of Japan. He claimed that they were going to do 4,000 feet of climbing every day. He sure has never been to Japan before, Aside from Fujiyama there isn't a lot of mountains in Japan.

"My 14 Best Cycling Climbs in Japan (Hint - Not Mt Fuji!)"
<https://biketourjapan.com/14-best-cycling-climbs-in-japan/>

"Japan's Top Bike Climbs"
<https://pjammcycling.com/zone/203.Japans-Top-Bike-Climbs>

"Climbs in Japan by name"
<https://www.climbbybike.com/country/Japan/142>
"top 50 results displayed on map
- all results displayed in list below map."

"Discovering and Cycling Japan’s Biggest Climb"
<http://regex.info/blog/2018-09-03/2870>
<https://www.strava.com/activities/1807293383>
"Japan's highest paved road at Mt. Norikura, at an elevation of 2,717m
(8,914 ft)"

[John B.]

On Sat, 9 Sep 2023 12:29:50 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Even casual look would tell you that"

"About 73% of Japan is mountainous, with a mountain range running
through each of the main islands. Japan's highest mountain is Mount
Fuji, with an elevation of 3,776 m (12,388 ft). Japan's forest cover
rate is 68.55% since the mountains are heavily forested."
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Sat, 09 Sep 2023 13:45:25 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Sat, 9 Sep 2023 12:29:50 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
><cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>I just got back from a ride and one of the guys kept overlapping me. Now he did that several times when there was obvious right turns and he was to my right. And I didn't have room to swing wide. So I don't know how to deal with that. This guy is taking that Tour of Japan. He claimed that they were going to do 4,000 feet of climbing every day. He sure has never been to Japan before, Aside from Fujiyama there isn't a lot of mountains in Japan.
>
>"My 14 Best Cycling Climbs in Japan (Hint - Not Mt Fuji!)"
><https://biketourjapan.com/14-best-cycling-climbs-in-japan/>
>
>"Japan's Top Bike Climbs"
><https://pjammcycling.com/zone/203.Japans-Top-Bike-Climbs>
>
>"Climbs in Japan by name"
><https://www.climbbybike.com/country/Japan/142>
>"top 50 results displayed on map
>- all results displayed in list below map."
>
>"Discovering and Cycling Japan’s Biggest Climb"
><http://regex.info/blog/2018-09-03/2870>
><https://www.strava.com/activities/1807293383>
>"Japan's highest paved road at Mt. Norikura, at an elevation of 2,717m
>(8,914 ft)"

Much of Japan's political history was based in the fact that the Kanto
Plains - the area around where Tokyo was built - was isolated from
southern Japan by the so called Japanese Alps from Kyoto, the ancient
capital, where the Emperor and government was located.

--
Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 9/9/2023 3:29 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> I just got back from a ride and one of the guys kept overlapping me. Now he did that several times when there was obvious right turns and he was to my right. And I didn't have room to swing wide. So I don't know how to deal with that.

Did you think of asking him not to do that? In my experience, that works.

> This guy is taking that Tour of Japan. He claimed that they were going to do 4,000 feet of climbing every day. He sure has never been to Japan before, Aside from Fujiyama there isn't a lot of mountains in Japan.

Wow. Just wow.

--
- Frank Krygowski