Single and dual pivot brakes

[Tom Kunich]

Those of you that use Campagnolo equipment probably know that fairly recently Campy has changed their road bike brake sets from double pivot at both ends to double on the front and single on the rear. Well, my Basso has the mixed set and the single pivot actually feels both more direct but stronger.

My question would be why Campy changed in the first place. I suppose because the double pivot has a flatter shoe to rim contact.

This would be a good question for Frank if he wasn't such an asshole that putting him in the kill file wasn't the least I could do.

Another problem that has come to the forefront is that the Moser has very tight geometry and gravel on the roads will pick up into the tight spaces between the tire and the seat tube or perhaps the tire and be underside of the brake and it feels like the brakes have been put on pretty hard.

The Basso has a lot more clearance and shouldn't have this problem. I am taking the Basso out for a test ride today, but I have to be careful because the chain is one link too short. I will have to buy a new chain so I don't end up with a chain that has several quick links in it.

I am expecting the Aliverti today so I will begin setting that up and deciding whether I will use the Chorus group on it or return to the Centaur 11.

[AMuzi]

Dual pivot have more braking power (albeit a softer lever
feel) while SP are lighter and adequate for rear wheel
braking (where skid usually happens before peak braking force).

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Roger Merriman]

That was Campagnolo’s reasoning for dual F and single R.

Happens with MTB and rotor sizes ie my MTB has 180/160mm.

I did notice the jump from single to dual, but it wasn’t a fair comparison
really since the single was 1980’s Suntour vs shimano 2008 ish dual pivots!

Roger Merriman

[Tom Kunich]

On the workstand the single feels better but under way the dual pivot plainly works better.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 9:16:03 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> Those of you that use Campagnolo equipment probably know that fairly recently Campy has changed their road bike brake sets from double pivot at both ends to double on the front and single on the rear. Well, my Basso has the mixed set and the single pivot actually feels both more direct but stronger.
>
> My question would be why Campy changed in the first place. I suppose because the double pivot has a flatter shoe to rim contact.
>
> This would be a good question for Frank if he wasn't such an asshole that putting him in the kill file wasn't the least I could do.
>
> Another problem that has come to the forefront is that the Moser has very tight geometry and gravel on the roads will pick up into the tight spaces between the tire and the seat tube or perhaps the tire and be underside of the brake and it feels like the brakes have been put on pretty hard.
>
> The Basso has a lot more clearance and shouldn't have this problem. I am taking the Basso out for a test ride today, but I have to be careful because the chain is one link too short. I will have to buy a new chain so I don't end up with a chain that has several quick links in it.
>

Tommy, didn't you just have a lengthy discussion with Andy about chain length and whether links are half or full and outer and inner links. Since you say your chain is one link too short, you apparently did not learn anything.

[Luns Tee]

On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 8:08:26 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> Dual pivot have more braking power (albeit a softer lever
> feel) while SP are lighter and adequate for rear wheel
> braking (where skid usually happens before peak braking force).

The other thing is that the dual-pivot calipers are rigidly centered while single-pivot calipers are sprung. This means a SP brake can track a wobbling rim with only light drag on the pad being pushed, whereas a DP caliper can drag forcefully, being unable to spring away from the rim. Rear rims can flex during out-of-saddle climbs, enough so that pros have been seen riding with the rear brake quick-release open.

Campagnolo used to have their brake quick release on the caliper, but moved it to the brake lever at some point. I don't recall the timing of this, but suspect it was motivated by the Delta brake which couldn't support a caliper QR. Whatever the motivation, it seems to have stuck ever since. One nice property of this design change is that opening the QR doesn't affect normal braking - i.e. you don't have to worry about closing the QR before need to use the brake again. Shimano did the same thing with Sante, and I think Exage, but seem to have generally stuck with caliper QRs. I never watched closely enough to see whether pros riding Shimano would also open their rear QRs, but with Campy, it was pretty visible.

-Luns

[Tom Kunich]

32 or 36 spoke wheels with very flexible rims used to be the standard. Now the rims are very stiff and if a rim is off a tenth of an inch you could feel it in the lever. I have a set of deep aero aluminum wheels and there is a mark on one of the times that you have to hold crosswise to sunlight to see and it almost SLAMS the brake on. So those wheels are now useless. I have been entirely unable to take a mark that small out of the rim. And yet I have no problem whatsoever with 10 year old Campy Eurus. Which weren't very good wheels.