Bernie Mikkelsen
Tom Kunich
Brewster Fong
> Anyone know if he's moved his shop and if so where to?
Yes, according to his website, he's moved to
"We have moved to Hangar 22, next to Hangar 1 in the Creative
Technologies building"
http://www.mikkelsenframes.com/
Here's a map:
http://tinyurl.com/n78gg8
Good Luck!
Tom Kunich
news:7ce66383-3afd-40ad...@b14g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
Hmm, looked at his website a couple of days ago and there wasn't anything
like that there. Thanks Brewster.
Dang, I rode RIGHT by his place on Sunday but apparently he doesn't have any
signs up yet.
jim beam
> Anyone know if he's moved his shop and if so where to?
>
i have personal experience with mikkelsen, and while he knows how to
make a pretty weld, but he doesn't know a damned thing about mechanical
principles or materials.
http://www.classicrendezvous.com/USA/Ed_Litton.htm is a /much/ better bet.
Tom Kunich
news:9cKdnb9NELSbu9HX...@speakeasy.net...
Jim, do you suppose that Schwinn knew mechanical principles?
jim beam
i suppose that they had him on contract as a welder. and he's good at
that.
but unlike you apparently, i have [briefly] owned a mikkelsen frame. he
doesn't know mechanical principles in terms of tube selection, stress
risers, loading or stiffness. absolutely the worst frame i've ever seen.
litton on the other hand is [apparently] /still/ under contract with
bianchi. bianchi know more about bikes than schwinn.
Tom Kunich
> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>> Jim, do you suppose that Schwinn knew mechanical principles?
>
> i suppose that they had him on contract as a welder. and he's good at
> that.
>
> but unlike you apparently, i have [briefly] owned a mikkelsen frame. he
> doesn't know mechanical principles in terms of tube selection, stress
> risers, loading or stiffness. absolutely the worst frame i've ever seen.
Bernie's big error is that he builds bikes that people ask for. Litton won't
do that.
> litton on the other hand is [apparently] /still/ under contract with
> bianchi. bianchi know more about bikes than schwinn.
1) Litton is one of the best frame builders around. Yet he only gets about 3
or 4 orders for frames a year and has to survive on repair and painting
work.
2) Every SINGLE Bianchi racing shop steel bike from them I've seen has
broken tubes. And that's about a half dozen. Does that sound competent to
you?
jim beam
> "jim beam" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:EdydnUUuY_FFttHX...@speakeasy.net...
>> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>
>>> Jim, do you suppose that Schwinn knew mechanical principles?
>>
>> i suppose that they had him on contract as a welder. and he's good at
>> that.
>>
>> but unlike you apparently, i have [briefly] owned a mikkelsen frame.
>> he doesn't know mechanical principles in terms of tube selection,
>> stress risers, loading or stiffness. absolutely the worst frame i've
>> ever seen.
>
> Bernie's big error is that he builds bikes that people ask for. Litton
> won't do that.
>
>> litton on the other hand is [apparently] /still/ under contract with
>> bianchi. bianchi know more about bikes than schwinn.
>
> 1) Litton is one of the best frame builders around. Yet he only gets
> about 3 or 4 orders for frames a year and has to survive on repair and
> painting work.
perfect for the average r.b.t denizen then - no marketing and actual
engineering!
>
> 2) Every SINGLE Bianchi racing shop steel bike from them I've seen has
> broken tubes. And that's about a half dozen. Does that sound competent
> to you?
do you mean that every broken bianchi is, er, broken, or do you mean
that every bianchi breaks? because the latter is patently untrue.
Tom Kunich
> Tom Kunich wrote:
>> 2) Every SINGLE Bianchi racing shop steel bike from them I've seen has
>> broken tubes. And that's about a half dozen. Does that sound competent to
>> you?
>
> do you mean that every broken bianchi is, er, broken, or do you mean that
> every bianchi breaks? because the latter is patently untrue.
Did you miss where it said, "racing shop"? These were supposedly the finest
Bianchi's made but ALL of them I know of broke within a couple of years.
Bianchi tends to overheat the tubing when they're soldering lugged frames
together.
Andre Jute
Why do you think I'm so keen on Dutch frames? Even my latest German
bike has a frame brazed in The Netherlands by Van Raam. Can't go wrong
with craftsmen who, before they even started accumulating their
decades of experience, served a 7 year apprenticeship. So what if the
resulting frame costs a little more? It's still only a third of the
price of a dull Waterford ripoff.
Andre Jute
Not everything in materials is dreamt of in Timoshenko
jim beam
so why hasn't mine broken? or any of the bianchi's of my friends? and
when was the last time bianchi brazed a frame???
Tom Kunich
You have a racing shop Bianchi? Let's note that almost all of the steel
Bianchis sold in the USA are Taiwanese bikes and not Italian bikes.
AMuzi
uh, last week?
http://www.yellowjersey.org/dolo9a.jpg
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Tom Kunich
news:h2lvm0$3hj$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
From the failures I see on these brazed Bianchis I get the idea that they're
being made out on the assembly line and not in the racing shop as they
claimed. The higher quality tubing used for the racing bikes is a heck of a
lot more sensitive to that assembly line practice of having the frames on
the turntable being sprayed with flame for the entire time they're on that
thing.
And yet the Taiwanese Bianchis I've seen seem to be very reliable though a
bit heavier.
David White
I have known Ed Litton for over 20 years. I spoke with him just last
week. Ed is a great guy and knows what he is doing. However, it should
be pointed out that Ed was originally taught by Bernie (who in turn was
taught by Eisentraut).
I should also point out that Ed, for a very long time, was the repair
guy for Bianchi in the US. If anyone could give you feedback on the
quality of these frames, it is Ed. Suffice it to say that all makers
likely leave occasional lemons behind and Bianchi is not exempt. Ed did
show me several frames in for repair that I was amazed even got out of
the factory. That said, a few frames out of thousands is not bad. I
recall that folks used to say don't buy an American car made on a
Monday. Perhaps the same is true for Italian bikes.
Ryan Cousineau
David White <white...@fastmail.us> wrote:
The usual jest is that when Bianchi started outsourcing its entry-level
frames to Taiwan, the quality of those frames was better (or at least
more consistent) than the Italian frames.
I make no submission about what recent Bianchi frames look like. I have
owned two: a nice and sturdy Japanese-made frame from the early 80s*,
and a nice and pretty Bianchi Rita (aluminum 29er singlespeed) made
quite recently, and probably in Taiwan, too.
*This is probably not the archetypal "Japanese Bianchi" that Sheldon
mentions here:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/japan.html#bianchi
The best info I have is the Canadian distributor imported these and
badged them as Bianchis. I assume this wasn't done in other countries,
even including the US.
--
Ryan Cousineau rcou...@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
jim beam
> jim beam wrote:
>> Tom Kunich wrote:
>>> Anyone know if he's moved his shop and if so where to?
>>>
>>
>> i have personal experience with mikkelsen, and while he knows how to
>> make a pretty weld, but he doesn't know a damned thing about
>> mechanical principles or materials.
>>
>> http://www.classicrendezvous.com/USA/Ed_Litton.htm is a /much/ better
>> bet.
>
> I have known Ed Litton for over 20 years. I spoke with him just last
> week. Ed is a great guy and knows what he is doing. However, it should
> be pointed out that Ed was originally taught by Bernie (who in turn was
> taught by Eisentraut).
you're trying to imply that because bernie taught ed along the way, that
the only stuff ed knows is what bernie taught him - which is a total
logical disconnect.
i can't say i know ed personally, but we have spoken, and i discussed my
opinion on mikkelsen frames and bernie's apparent lack of understanding
of mechanical principles. ed responded to the effect of: "yes, that's
why we parted ways". i've spoken with bernie too btw, and while he's a
nice enough guy, he yaks endlessly, and no amount of yakking compensates
for his lack of knowledge.
jim beam
wow - retro...
Tom Kunich
news:X6-dnTv6qOKlOdPX...@whidbeytel.com...
>
> I have known Ed Litton for over 20 years. I spoke with him just last week.
> Ed is a great guy and knows what he is doing. However, it should be
> pointed out that Ed was originally taught by Bernie (who in turn was
> taught by Eisentraut).
Bernie is a good maker. But as I stated - he will suggest the proper sort of
bike for a person but many people have their own ideas of what they want and
Bernie won't argue with them. He'll build what they ask for. And if that
means that there's a lousy bike out there with his name on it, he just says
that's what the customer wanted and the customer is always right. Even when
he's wrong.
> I should also point out that Ed, for a very long time, was the repair guy
> for Bianchi in the US. If anyone could give you feedback on the quality of
> these frames, it is Ed. Suffice it to say that all makers likely leave
> occasional lemons behind and Bianchi is not exempt. Ed did show me several
> frames in for repair that I was amazed even got out of the factory. That
> said, a few frames out of thousands is not bad. I recall that folks used
> to say don't buy an American car made on a Monday. Perhaps the same is
> true for Italian bikes.
I've had two non-racing shop Bianchis break on me and have seen, as I said,
a half dozen racing shop Bianchis with frame failures that suggested
overheating of the tubing around the braze joints.
However, the two non-racing shop Bianchis that broke had both had repairs
done to them from accidents involving repairs to the frame.
Tom Kunich
>
> i've spoken with bernie too btw, and while he's a nice enough guy, he yaks
> endlessly, and no amount of yakking compensates for his lack of knowledge.
Apparently you're unaware that he doesn't talk much anymore.
jim beam
> "David White" <white...@fastmail.us> wrote in message
> news:X6-dnTv6qOKlOdPX...@whidbeytel.com...
>>
>> I have known Ed Litton for over 20 years. I spoke with him just last
>> week. Ed is a great guy and knows what he is doing. However, it should
>> be pointed out that Ed was originally taught by Bernie (who in turn
>> was taught by Eisentraut).
>
> Bernie is a good maker. But as I stated - he will suggest the proper
> sort of bike for a person but many people have their own ideas of what
> they want and Bernie won't argue with them. He'll build what they ask
> for. And if that means that there's a lousy bike out there with his name
> on it, he just says that's what the customer wanted and the customer is
> always right. Even when he's wrong.
well, i gave him free reign to design and build me a steel mtb frame.
it was utter garbage. being as he'd been highly recommended, my only
directives were size and "make it stiff" so it's not like i was telling
him his own job. big mistake - the down tube was massively
[ridiculously - it was literally squeezed down to about 20mm] ovalized
at the bb compromising torsional stiffness, the chain stays were mounted
off center, the seat stays were unevenly fixed to the seat tube, the top
tube was ridiculously skinny, and the head tube was the thinnest [and
thus least stiff] that i have ever seen, even on road a bike, let alone
an heavily stressed mtb. it really was a joke.
>
>> I should also point out that Ed, for a very long time, was the repair
>> guy for Bianchi in the US. If anyone could give you feedback on the
>> quality of these frames, it is Ed. Suffice it to say that all makers
>> likely leave occasional lemons behind and Bianchi is not exempt. Ed
>> did show me several frames in for repair that I was amazed even got
>> out of the factory. That said, a few frames out of thousands is not
>> bad. I recall that folks used to say don't buy an American car made on
>> a Monday. Perhaps the same is true for Italian bikes.
>
> I've had two non-racing shop Bianchis break on me and have seen, as I
> said, a half dozen racing shop Bianchis with frame failures that
> suggested overheating of the tubing around the braze joints.
>
> However, the two non-racing shop Bianchis that broke had both had
> repairs done to them from accidents involving repairs to the frame.
many brands of steel frames break, not just bianchi. "overheating" is
just denial for the misconception that steel is infallible.
jim beam
you're right, i am. cos' he sure did when i spoke with him.
Bill
like Reynolds 751. I don't see any way to get it hot enough (i.e.,
red hot) to melt brass without overheating it. I don't have any
problem with brazing Reynolds 531 and Columbus SLX, though. Over the
years, those tubes seem to have had enough thickness and inherent
strength to withstand being heated red hot.
Give me a silver-soldered lugged frame any day. You don't need to get
the tubing red hot in order to melt the silver solder and get it to
flow.
If you want some REALLY strong tubes, use chrome vanadium ones.
They're quite a bit stronger than chrome moly, but also much more
expensive. Since there is less demand for such expensive tubing, fewer
diameters and gauges are available, and it may not even be commonly
available as butted.
John and Horace Dodge popularized the all-steel car body in the
'teens. Since it was a new method, they weren't sure how strong it
had to be, so they made it of chrome vanadium steel just to make
sure. Junkyard crushers had a very hard time smashing them. Smart
junkyard owners wouldn't even try to crush a DB because it would often
damage their crushing machines.
jim beam
so which is stronger, a 0.25mm plate of chrome vanadium, or a 1mm plate
of chrome molybdenum?
and a 753 tube at 900' is how much hotter than a 531 tube at 900'?
Tom Sherman °_°
> I really don't like lugged, brazed frames made of super-thin tubing
> like Reynolds 751. I don't see any way to get it hot enough (i.e.,
Do you mean Reynolds 753? That was supposed to be brazed with silver.
--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.
Bill
silver."
Thanks for the correction, Tom.