Air-B tubes prone to fail?
Art Wong
have heard reports from other riders that failures at the stem are too
common. Also, on a few occassions, I've taken a new tube out of the
package to find that the walls of the tube are stuck together (no air can
be pumped in). I've to carefully peel apart the tubes to use them.
Patrick McNally
Wong) wrote:
I've had probably 6 tubes fail at the stem. They're not worth it.
Check out the Madison tubes
---------------------------
Patrick McNally
p-mc...@nwu.edu
Andrew Marshall
wo...@LLNL.GOV (Art Wong) wrote:
>
>Has anyone found the Air-B (700x20, 49g) tubes to be
>prone to fail? I have heard reports from other riders
>that failures at the stem are too common. Also, on a
>few occassions, I've taken a new tube out of the
>package to find that the walls of the tube are stuck
>together (no air can be pumped in). I've to carefully
>peel apart the tubes to use them.
Well on my mountain bike I've had the same Air-b on the back
for almost two years. the front however...
four tubes in the same amount of time, two of those blow-outs
happened just after inflation, (45lbs. with a good hand pump)
every time at the seam. I've given up and am going back to
Continentals. They may be heavyer but it is far easyer to ride
a bike than push it.
and...@passport.ca
Neal Stoughton
their customer service, they said that failures often occur
because typical rim tape such as Velox deforms and creates
indentations where the spoke holes are. Air B stated that they
are planning to manufacture their own rim tape to solve this
problem.
Dave Blake
They gave these out at a race last year (off-road) to the expert racers.
The next week several of the top ten racers had flats on their Air-Bs. I am
told they split at the seam and that the problem can be overcome with
sufficient amounts of baby powder, but there were a lot of AirB flats last
year.
Dave Blake
Pete Ruckelshaus
: Yes, I have had problems. In conversation with someone with
Unlike everyone else, it seems, I have not had any problems with Air-B
tubes; I have them in my road wheels, my ATB wheels, and I had them in my
tandem (when I still had it). I spoke to Air-B at the Philly Interbike,
and they told me they were making a kevlar reinforced rim tape that was
woven. I told them that I use fiberglass reinforced packing tape as a
rim strip, and they said that was the next best thing.
I have several thousand mile on Air-B tubes with no flats or valve
failures. Maybe I'm just lucky (I'd like to think so anyway).
They DO give a softer, more compliant ride than Butyl tubes (IMO).
Pete
Mark Chandler
>Neal Stoughton (ne...@par.univie.ac.at) wrote:
>: Yes, I have had problems. In conversation with someone with
>: their customer service, they said that failures often occur
>: because typical rim tape such as Velox deforms and creates
>: indentations where the spoke holes are. Air B stated that they
>: are planning to manufacture their own rim tape to solve this
>: problem.
>Unlike everyone else, it seems, I have not had any problems with Air-B
Ditto.
>tubes; I have them in my road wheels, my ATB wheels, and I had them in my
>tandem (when I still had it). I spoke to Air-B at the Philly Interbike,
>and they told me they were making a kevlar reinforced rim tape that was
>woven. I told them that I use fiberglass reinforced packing tape as a
>rim strip, and they said that was the next best thing.
Their tape is out. It's called Kev-Tex and is sold in two roll sets.
There's one width for mtb rims, and another for road rims (or ridiculously
narrow mtb rims). I think it's $8-10 a set. It's a mixture of latex
and kevlar, and seems to wrk quite well.
>I have several thousand mile on Air-B tubes with no flats or valve
>failures. Maybe I'm just lucky (I'd like to think so anyway).
My only flat has been a HUGE thorn that would have gone through any
tube. But, I patched the Air-B tube with a normal Rema patch kit
and it's now a spare.
>They DO give a softer, more compliant ride than Butyl tubes (IMO).
Yes. I find I have to run about 5psi more in my mtb tires. Combine
them with a supple, high thread count tire (like the IRCs), and you
get a really compliant ride.
>Pete
--
Mark Chandler Concord, California m...@crl.com
Martin O'Toole
>
>>They DO give a softer, more compliant ride than Butyl tubes (IMO).
>
>Yes. I find I have to run about 5psi more in my mtb tires. Combine
>them with a supple, high thread count tire (like the IRCs), and you
>get a really compliant ride.
>
>>Pete
>
>
>--
>Mark Chandler Concord, California m...@crl.com
>
gotten around the spontaneous burstage problem. Not with Air-Bs, not
with Madisons, and not with Clements. Pity.
I swear they probably all come from the same factory anyway.
-Matt
Mark Chandler
No, a couple of years ago, Delta sold Air-Bs under the Delta label.
Now, Air-B tubes are sold only under their own name. The Delta,
Ritchey, and Clement either are, or were, made in the same factory
in Taiwan. Only Air-B uses an extrusion process to apply the butyl,
the others use dipping.
>-Matt
Rod Casemore
I rode with these tubes for a while... weight saving was the reason, and
found them totally unrealible. They were pourous and always lost air
presure and I experienced failure from valve stem ripping out. For the
money they ask, my opion is they should give all away.
mark petry
>
>
>
> wo...@LLNL.GOV (Art Wong) wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Has anyone found the Air-B (700x20, 49g) tubes to be
> >prone to fail? I have heard reports from other riders
Damn Right. These things are DEATH! DONT use them. They tend to
blow out at the worst possible time and the nature of the material is
such that they fracture **BANG!!** and if thats on the front you are
talking about a total and immediate loss of control.
The manufacturer/importer (Madison or Merry Sales Co) will not
even respond to queries about the tubes failure rate, and the
bike magazines ignore letters to the editor on this subject for
fear of endangering their precious advertising revenue.
I have been cycling for 25 years and have mounted thousands of
tires. I lost 3 of these things in a row and the 3rd one caused
an ingury accident.
Youve been warned.
>
>
Tom Meyer
>found them totally unrealible. They were pourous and always lost air
>presure and I experienced failure from valve stem ripping out. For the
>money they ask, my opion is they should give all away.
You must be mistaken. A recent blurb in Bike Nashbar clearly states
that they have "six times better pressure retention than latex tubes"
which I take to mean they take six times longer to lose the same amount
of pressure.
-- Tom Meyer
Samuel Choy
weeks. I haven't been riding my bike that much b/c of this wierd constant
rain in California. I don't ever remember this much rain. Anyways... my
problem.... My air-bs are leaking somehow. They're fairly new... er...
maybe 2 months old and they've only been ridden 2-3 times off road.
Anybody else have this problem? Pretty sure it's not a torn or something
since it went flat within the first 3 weeks that I had them. (I didn't
even ride the bike when I first got them, didn't have time and that rain...)
Patrick McNally
Choy) wrote:
Any non-butyl tube will lose air MUCH faster than a butyl tube.
Real latex tubes need to be inflated daily and will go flat ina matter
of days.
---------------------------
Patrick McNally
p-mc...@nwu.edu
rm...@lehigh.edu
>
>You must be mistaken. A recent blurb in Bike Nashbar clearly states
>that they have "six times better pressure retention than latex tubes"
>which I take to mean they take six times longer to lose the same amount
>of pressure.
>
>-- Tom Meyer
I use the ultralight tubes and there is no doubt that they loose air -- fast.
This is really no big deal. I have found them much lighter and more durable
that butyl tubes and have never had a valve stem failure.
\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//\\//
Rafael Raban ,__o ,__o _____ ,__o
ph. (610) 758-0039 _- \ <, _- \ <, ____ _- \ <,
Lehigh University ( ) / ( ) ( ) / ( ) _____ ( ) / ( )
Material Science & Engineering breakaway
e-mail: rm...@lehigh.edu
Chuan Chew
> No, a couple of years ago, Delta sold Air-Bs under the Delta label.
> Now, Air-B tubes are sold only under their own name. The Delta,
> Ritchey, and Clement either are, or were, made in the same factory
> in Taiwan.
No, Thailand, in the Clement factory. DT "Detex" tubes are made there too.
> Only Air-B uses an extrusion process to apply the butyl,
> the others use dipping.
I have two questions: how does the butyl-coating extrusion process work, and
how is it superior to dipping (if it is superior)?
>
> >-Matt
>
> --
> Mark Chandler Concord, California m...@crl.com
>
Chuan
- sent via an evaluation copy of BulkRate (unregistered).
Mark Hickey
> I've had a slight problem with mine. Mine seem to go flat after a couple of
> weeks. I haven't been riding my bike that much b/c of this wierd constant
> rain in California. I don't ever remember this much rain. Anyways... my
> problem.... My air-bs are leaking somehow. They're fairly new... er...
> maybe 2 months old and they've only been ridden 2-3 times off road.
> Anybody else have this problem? Pretty sure it's not a torn or something
> since it went flat within the first 3 weeks that I had them. (I didn't
> even ride the bike when I first got them, didn't have time and that rain...)
Latex tubes all go flat pretty quickly - I run the Ritchey Butex tubes
which have a thin butyl rubber liner, which keeps air for about a week.
I also have a cat (named Campy) who hates MTBs and uses the tires to
sharpen her claws on - 3 pinholes in one tube last time... :-(.
Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
TIM...@news.delphi.com
a *49 gram* inner tube. Condoms are thicker latex than that! Use the
slightly heavier version (~65 grams). I'm 200 lbs and have no more trouble
with these tubes than regular butyls from conti or Specialized.
For heaven's sake, there are places to try to shave weight and then there
are places *not* to!
Mark Obsniuk
>I use the ultralight tubes and there is no doubt that they loose air -- fast.
>This is really no big deal. I have found them much lighter and more durable
>that butyl tubes and have never had a valve stem failure.
I have used those stupid latex tubes several times.(one never learns) I
was on my way back from one ride an hour after we finished there was this
bang and SSSSSSSS. When I got home I checked the tire and tube. The seam
had given on half of the tube. That is as in the circumfrance.
Mark
Mike Locke
Obviously there are some major misconceptions about the expected performance
of latex inner tubes out there.
Latex inner tubes lose air pressure because they are porous. Air-B tubes
are less porous than other latex inner tubes. On my 700CX20 wheels, my
Air-Bs lose about 10psi per day, while my Continental latex inner tube
loses about 25 psi per day. I beleive you will find this described on
the outside of the box that the inner tubes come in.
Latex is thin, compliant, stretches more easily than butyl, and is harder
to cut for a given thickness than butyl. These points are the basis of
the claims that the tubes are more flat resistant.
Despite what Jobst says, latex tubes do shift around a little. If you have
aero style rims the tube will develop friction marks around the spoke
hole dimples. Also, after riding under hot conditions, the tubes may
stick to the tire; although I've never had one stick so hard that it
seemed in danger of tearing. I baby powder my tube/tire, and this seems
to reduce both of the above problems.
Many of the complaints of increased flats and torn valves are probably
traceable to failure to reinflate the tire *EVERY DAY*. This ritual is
a must with latex inner tubes.
--
--
S'later, Mike Locke
Tom Hertenstein
I hope you're joking about this. From what I can tell, no one at Nashbar
knows what the hell they're talking about anyway. They probably copied
this down blindly from some over-enthusiastic product literature. Air-B
tubes, like all latex, lose air faster than normal tubes, even if Air-B's
are a little bit better. This is my experience, at least.
Tom
Mark Chandler
OK, here goes...
Air-B tubes are latex and butyl. The butyl keeps the air from leaking
as quickly as a pure latex tube. Yes, the Air-Bs leak more than regular
butyl tubes, but not as much as a *pure* latex tube.
>Tom
Joshua_Putnam
>>I rode with these tubes for a while... weight saving was the reason, and
>>found them totally unrealible. They were pourous and always lost air
>>presure
>You must be mistaken. A recent blurb in Bike Nashbar clearly states
>that they have "six times better pressure retention than latex tubes"
>which I take to mean they take six times longer to lose the same amount
>of pressure.
Six times longer than a standard latex tube still isn't very long
compared to an ordinary butyl tube. Latex tubes are very porous,
and a sixfold improvement would still leave a tube very porous.
Don't use latex or butylized latex if you don't check your
pressure before every ride.
--
Jo...@WOLFE.net is Joshua Putnam / P.O. Box 13220 / Burton, WA 98013
"My other bike is a car."
Bike parts for sale: finger Joshua...@gonzo.wolfe.net for list.
Martin O'Toole
I find I need to top Air-Bs off every day instead of once a week. This
I don't mind, considering the lighter weight I can actually feel and the
superior ride quality. I wouldn't mind the occasional pinch flat that I
never get with normal tubes either. It's this spontaneous poppage thing
that keeps me from using them. Usually it's at the valve stem or the
seam, but not always. Sometimes it happens on a smooth trail without a
thorn, rock, or bump in sight. Sometimes it even happens when the bike
is sitting in a roof rack on top of my car.
These things don't work, and that's a pity. They probably could be made
to work well if someone bothered with quality control, etc. But as long
as people believe everything they read in ads and continue to buy shoddy
products, why should Air-B even care?
Zach Kaplan
were no lighter than the butyl tubes they replaced. I detected no
difference in ride quality. The first tube worked fine for several
months and then deflated with a long hiss while parked in the sun on a
hot day. Upon repairing it there was no obvious sign of a hole but in
one spot the inner coating had delaminated from the latex. Air-B gave
me a free replacement tube after I sent this back.
The second failure was potentially more serious. After a day of hard
riding, the front tube blew with a loud explosion. Luckily the bike
was parked. I just can't risk a next time when I might actually be
riding the bike.
James Sanderson
On my third ride I was jumping over a log on a descent and when I landed
the front tire blew sending me on a power slide on my face. The tube
had three punctures on the rim side of the tube, I presume it was caused
by the spokes. I don't know what sort of rim tape I have, but it works
ok for butyl tubes. Oddly, I still have the Air B in the rear and have
had no problems even though this wheel generally takes more abuse.
jrs
bd...@lehigh.edu
:
My friends bike had a set of air-b's too until one day when we were both
doing last minute adjustments before riding and the front tube went "POW"
while the bike was just sitting there. We opened up the tire and there
was a 4 inch hole it it! Up until that point I thought they were a good
product because I had an air-b that I was able to patch 14 times (really)
without any problems. But not 10 minutes later my friends back tire blew
too! Taking this as a sign, we both decided to take the trials bikes out
for a spin instead ;) Anyways, I swithced both of mine to butyls after
that and neither of us has bought an air-b after that.
brian
Martin O'Toole
Experiences really similar to my own! -Matt
dwe...@ibm.net
claim to notice any difference in the ride due to a weight difference, but I've had
very good experience in terms of punctures and flats. In combination with Kevlar
tires, I rarely have flats. On the downside, the latex tubes loose air more quickly
than regular tires, so I find myself checking the pressure and adding air
every 2 or 3 days.
-Danny.
tu...@delphi.com
the same place. Where the two ends of the tube are vulcanized together.
In one case my tire was fine at home and over night but when I arrived at
the trailhead it was flat. ARRGH!!!!
I think these problems are due to a bad run at the factory as I've used
this type of tube for the last three years with no undue problems.
Still... ARRRGH!!!
Martin O'Toole
Your experience mirrors mine. Let's hear it for quality control! ;-(
ARRRGH! -Matt