To pivot or not to pivot? Is my rear derailleur mounted correctly?
David Farber
http://webpages.charter.net/mrfixiter/images/Azuki/
This is an old 10 speed road bike from the '70's. In photo 1, if you push on
the lower gear in the direction shown, the arm pivots on its mount.
In photo 2, that arm does not pivot if you push in the same place as shown
in photo 1. However, if I loosen the screw (shown in photo 3) in the
non-pivoting arm just a smidgen, that arm pivots too. Also, the washer shown
in the picture mounts under the screw head. There is no washer on the other
side of the derailleur (missing perhaps?) that attaches to the frame (see
picture 4)
I initially thought since the screw threads don't go all the way up to the
top of the head, that that part of the derailleur should pivot, and since it
didn't pivot, something was worn out. But I thought I'd ask the experts and
find out for sure.
Thanks for your reply.
--
David Farber
Los Osos, CA
James
Nice pics!
That part (where the derailleur bolts to the frame) pivots on most
others I've seen.
Often there is a spring washer (circlip) that fits in a groove in the
bolt, to prevent it from tightening against the frame hanger.
It could be that this is just missing, or that the shank of the bolt
that is not threaded, is expected to meet the face of the hanger and not
move past the surface of the hanger.
It looks like the surface of the hanger might allow the bolt to screw in
too far.
Either a washer, or perhaps a light file of the hanger face to yield a
nice flat surface that the bolt comes to rest against, and not screw in
too far. Maybe even just remove the paint! It might be binding on
that. Keep oiled so that it doesn't rust.
You might even remove any dirt or perhaps a little metal from the mating
surface of the derailleur, to allow a clearance.
No doubt someone like AMuzi will have more or better advice.
Regards,
James.
AMuzi
(patent hadn't expired yet).
Suntour assembled the top pivot with thin shims. Add shims
to tighten, subtract to loosen. See if that shim is actually
two or more stuck together. If so, remove a thin one. If
not, i.e., if there's only one shim, take out the shim and
see if it has good movement or too much play. Lube pivot of
course.
Way back in the dark ages any decent bike shop would have a
selection of these but now you'll need a sacrificial Suntour
changer for extra shims.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
thirty-six
First try flipping the washer. Second, take the paint off the hanger,
carefully with a knife, a scraper or file. Thirdly, thin the washer a
little.
Tom Ace
> In that era the top bolt does pivot but doesn't spring
> (patent hadn't expired yet).
>
> Suntour assembled the top pivot with thin shims. Add shims
> to tighten, subtract to loosen. See if that shim is actually
> two or more stuck together. If so, remove a thin one. If
> not, i.e., if there's only one shim, take out the shim and
> see if it has good movement or too much play. Lube pivot of
> course.
When it mounts to threads integral to the dropout as
shown in the pics here, doesn't the bolt have to be tight?
If it's loose enough to allow easy pivoting, it is loose
enough to unscrew. I have one of these on my tandem
and I keep it tight enough that it doesn't pivot in use.
It works fine for me that way.
Tom Ace
James
> On Sep 7, 7:07 pm, AMuzi<a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> In that era the top bolt does pivot but doesn't spring
>> (patent hadn't expired yet).
>>
>> Suntour assembled the top pivot with thin shims. Add shims
>> to tighten, subtract to loosen. See if that shim is actually
>> two or more stuck together. If so, remove a thin one. If
>> not, i.e., if there's only one shim, take out the shim and
>> see if it has good movement or too much play. Lube pivot of
>> course.
>
> When it mounts to threads integral to the dropout as
> shown in the pics here, doesn't the bolt have to be tight?
Tight in the frame, yes.
> If it's loose enough to allow easy pivoting, it is loose
> enough to unscrew.
There is supposed to be a clearance between the derailleur body and the
frame so it can pivot on the bolt shank.
--
JS.
kolldata
The Suntour pivots once only not twice as Shimano's killer design
bringing this adjustment to prominence for operation. The barrel
mechanismcan be taken apart and cleaned, lubed. Finish Line Wax with
teflon is a good lube for the pivot movement if applied every ride.
Check the metallurgy in the cage if you have a top end model-extra
machining obvious: supremely rebendable and necessary with that one
pivot action.
buy a spare Deore for in stock...try Nashbar and Jenson.
All the Suntour equipment is obsolete and brittle. Look to a complete
upgrade over 7000 miles
AMuzi
Play is adjusted on the outside face of the body (underneath
the bolt head) with shims. Not as annoying as Jaguar E Type
V12 valve shims, but tedious in its own way.
Several shim thicknesses and several bolt configurations.
Later pre-top-spring series had a cute but hard to adjust
recessed locking collar on the back side of the body.
David Farber
familiar with the evolution of these types of parts. I removed, cleaned, and
lubed the screw and the shaft so there's no binding there. In summary is it
correct to say that this part (is the correct term hanger?) is supposed to
pivot and either the crud on the frame or the thickness of the shim is
causing the hanger to freeze up?
David Farber
Hi Tom,
It sounds like we have the identical situations. Yes, the screw will slowly
loosen more and more if not tightened down completely. No doubt, the bike
does shift gears when the screw is tightened all the way. Though sometimes
the chain does seem to take a while to find the next gear. I don't have
fancy click shifters. It's just the old shift style lever which is
continuously variable and you have to guess how far to advance it to change
gears. Then, you need to make small adjusting movements so the chain stops
making noise.
Tom Ace
> Lots of terrific answers here. Thank you. I am just a casual cyclist and not
> familiar with the evolution of these types of parts. I removed, cleaned, and
> lubed the screw and the shaft so there's no binding there. In summary is it
> correct to say that this part (is the correct term hanger?) is supposed to
> pivot and either the crud on the frame or the thickness of the shim is
> causing the hanger to freeze up?
The shoulder on the bolt (after where the threads end)
is only slightly larger in diameter than the peaks of the
threads. Some other derailleurs of that era had larger
shoulders on their bolt.
For pivoting to work as people have described here,
the bolt's shoulder has to tighten against the dropout.
From the pics your dropout looks eroded in that area,
and the bolt may not be contacting it as intended.
In any case, I don't think you'd see much improvement
in shifting if you managed to let the derailleur pivot in use.
The V-GT Luxes I've seen have a screw (not visible in your
pic, so I'm not sure if it is there in yours) for limiting how
far the derailleur can pivot counterclockwise. The end of
the screw contacts the dropout. Even if you're keeping
the mounting bolt tight and the derailleur doesn't pivot in
use, the screw is still useful for adjusting what (fixed)
position the derailleur sits at.
Tom Ace
thirty-six
The derailleur body is meant to swing upon the mounting screw when
requiring fast wheel changes during racing. With the derailleur swung
back, the wheel should drop out (after releasing the axle). I use
(have used) an old derailleur during winter months to cope with snow
and ice and have the mounting screw tight on the derailleur body to
eliminate any play because there is enough play everywhere else in
that derailleur. If you are not racing there is no absolute
requirement to have the derailleur freely swinging. Punctures (with
wired-on tyres)should be repaired without removing the wheel, for
greatest reliability. So don't get too worried about it, there are
good reasons to have it either way.
Frank Krygowski
on two of my bikes.
In normal operation, that derailleur should not rotate counterclockwise
about the top pivot. It pivots only clockwise, and only when you pull
the entire derailleur body back when removing or reinstalling the rear
wheel.
When you let go of the derailleur after reinstalling the wheel, it
should snap forward (counterclockwise) until it hits a stop, and always
stay in that same position. There's an adjusting screw to fine-tune
where it hits that stop, but it's usually not very critical, in my
experience.
More modern derailleurs swing (and have springs) at both pivots you
showed. That's needed with "index shifting" (i.e. click shifting). But
you have "friction shifting" (i.e. no clicks) and that old derailleur
works well with that system.
--
- Frank Krygowski
thirty-six
to see a connection other than marketing.
But
> you have "friction shifting" (i.e. no clicks) and that old derailleur
> works well with that system.
design (not marketting)capacity.
AMuzi
Bolt is tight, body moves.
For a Suntour changer equipped with bolt on hanger (the
Sheldon Brown-ism is 'claw' !) you'd have a longer bolt with
a locknut on the back side. Those are painlessly quick to
lube adjust and lock without even removing the wheel.
AMuzi
of the body is parallel to the chainstay. You're right, it
usually is not at all critical, close is OK
[2] read 'said' for those who are not in denial of Suntour's
unfortunate demise.
AMuzi
constant distance from the sprockets, notably even across
various sized front chainrings. It's one of the many design
aspects which allow dependable index shifting, this
particular one from Lucien Juy.
thirty-six
around during selection making engagement slow. Is there any dual
pivot rear derailleur with a damper on the top spring so its action is
slow compared to the cage spring and so not creating a tug of war
between them?
AMuzi
David Farber
adjusted the pivot screw as you described though it wasn't very easy to tell
when the two pieces were parallel.
Referring back to the photos with some new ones added,
www.webpages.charter.net/mrfixiter/images/Azuki
I have another question. When I removed the screw in photo 1 to clean out
the insides, I discovered the coiled spring in there that applies tension to
the chain. When you disassemble that part, the spring can be removed from
the shaft. Long story short, when you reassemble the spring into the
cylinder, there is a post with 6 different detents. See photo 5, with spring
removed, and photo 6, with spring "installed." The reason I put installed in
quotes is because you have to preload the spring before you insert it in the
cylinder.
In photo 7, there are two holes at the base of the cylinder. The other end
of the spring fits into either of these two holes. When you combine the
options of those two holes on one end of the spring and then the combination
of possible detents at the other end of the spring, you have a whole lot of
spring tensions from which to select. Is there some rule of thumb for this?
Of course I didn't photograph it before I disassembled it.
AMuzi
You turned to the harder path back at the last fork.
Normally, one removes the cage stop screw first. After the
spring unwinds, note the position of the cage and set it at
the same position when reassembling after cleaning[1].
Next, wind the cage spring and then screw in the stop screw.
Same process for Campagnolo, Zeus, most models of the era.
Most Suntour models start with the lower pulley up to the
right about 1:00 or 2:00 to the nameplate. Simplex have a
nicely stamped pointer on the bolt so one might easily line
up the cage, lock it in place and then wind the spring. Of
course Simplex are no longer with us.
[1] or at least make note of it so any necessary or intended
changes have some known starting point.
thirty-six
shit, so it hadn't been done, two hours ago?
jgetsoian
David:
I road these Sun Tour derailleurs for years. It is supposed to pivot
back for wheel removal against the spring loading of a torsion spring
embedded in the mounting hub around the mounting bolt, it is NOT
supposed to swing when shifting. There is supposed to be a set screw
that catches the notch at the 7 o'clock position on the 'drop-put' part
of the mount(seen in your 3rd picture) which adjusts the angle of the
body of the derailleur. You adjust the body angle to bring the body as
nearly parallel as possible to the tangent line on the cogs where they
lie under action of the derailleur. This is hard to explain but actually
easy to see.Or if that doesn't make sense, just make it parallel to the
lower rear stay - it won't affect the shifting much anyway.
When riding the torsion spring holds the derailleur hard against the
stop and it does not pivot (at least not at that joint) when shifting.
j getsoian
David Farber
> On 09/07/2011 08:11 PM, David Farber wrote:
>> Pictures of the problem are here:
>>
>> http://webpages.charter.net/mrfixiter/images/Azuki/
>>
>> This is an old 10 speed road bike from the '70's. In photo 1, if you
>> push on the lower gear in the direction shown, the arm pivots on its
>> mount. In photo 2, that arm does not pivot if you push in the same place
>> as
>> shown in photo 1. However, if I loosen the screw (shown in photo 3)
>> in the non-pivoting arm just a smidgen, that arm pivots too. Also,
>> the washer shown in the picture mounts under the screw head. There
>> is no washer on the other side of the derailleur (missing perhaps?)
>> that attaches to the frame (see picture 4)
>>
>> I initially thought since the screw threads don't go all the way up
>> to the top of the head, that that part of the derailleur should
>> pivot, and since it didn't pivot, something was worn out. But I
>> thought I'd ask the experts and find out for sure.
>>
>> Thanks for your reply.
>
> David:
>
> I road these Sun Tour derailleurs for years. It is supposed to pivot
> back for wheel removal against the spring loading of a torsion spring
> embedded in the mounting hub around the mounting bolt, it is NOT
> supposed to swing when shifting.
There is supposed to be a set screw
> that catches the notch at the 7 o'clock position on the 'drop-put'
> part of the mount(seen in your 3rd picture) which adjusts the angle
> of the body of the derailleur.
http://webpages.charter.net/mrfixiter/images/Azuki/
Is the screw I highlighted in photo 8 the set screw I should turn? The 3rd
picture is a picture of the screw. Did you mean photo 2? And the lines I
highlighted in black in photo 9, are those supposed to be parallel? I think
if I can figure out where the "drop-put" part is, I'll understand what is
going on.
You adjust the body angle to bring the
> body as nearly parallel as possible to the tangent line on the cogs
> where they lie under action of the derailleur. This is hard to
> explain but actually easy to see.Or if that doesn't make sense, just
> make it parallel to the lower rear stay - it won't affect the
> shifting much anyway.
> When riding the torsion spring holds the derailleur hard against the
> stop and it does not pivot (at least not at that joint) when shifting.
>
> j getsoian
David Farber
I've taken a zoomed out picture and added it to the other photos.
http://webpages.charter.net/mrfixiter/images/Azuki/
Can you tell by looking at photo 9 whether or not things look aligned
correctly? I'm not understanding what two reference points to use for the
1:00-2:00 setting.
AMuzi
With the cage stop screw out of the derailleur altogether,
but with the derailleur otherwise complete and assembled,
the cage spring will be slack.
Assuming the nameplate is a horizontal baseline for our
purposes, i.e., a line from 9:00 to 3:00, the lower roller
will be at roughly 1~2:00 before winding the spring.
If it is, wind the spring and then install the cage stop screw.
If it is not, disassemble the cage pivot assembly and
reassemble until it is in that position or at least close
(or in whatever position the factory originally set it, if
known). Then wind the cage spring and replace the cage stop
screw.
Hope that's helpful.
kolldata
I'm sorry to be unclear. I'm sorry to be unclear. I'm sorry to be
unclear. I'm sorry to be unclear......
WITH THE humor and knowledge from dealing with these %^^RFF!!#$
%REE321000000 rear deraileurs indeed.
and page 2.....maleable cage metal....
lookit what the home mnechanic with his new Suntour equipped bicycle
has to deal with...
and 'that's why' as the local timber eaters speak, ST has died more
opr less. See Frank Berto "SUNSET FOR SUNTOUR"
SAY DAVE WANNA BUY A FEW like new Suntour era tools ? complete set
more or less.
butbutbut I accumulated 3 sets from dumpster diving. My Storage Area,
the inimitable Safe-T-Storage of Fort Myers Beach (online) had folk
going north or into the hole with surplus and unused bicycles so off
to me, owner of the last 544.
the three deray, despite considerable clean and lube, fractured
looking like something crystalline in the pour.
Trevor needs the paddle shifter computer or a Hotchkiss rig.
and a good SPRONG, Dave !
kolldata
nice windup at the cogs over a free running low drag freewheel...nice.
David Farber
"AMuzi" <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
news:j4dju4$tb7$1...@dont-email.me...
that says angle adjustment?
AMuzi
>>>>>>>> Pictures of the problem are here:
>>>>>>>> http://webpages.charter.net/mrfixiter/images/Azuki/
>>>>>>>> This is an old 10 speed road bike from the '70's. In photo 1, if
>>>>>>>> you push on
>>>>>>>> the lower gear in the direction shown, the arm pivots on its
>>>>>>>> mount. In photo 2, that arm does not pivot if you push in the same
>>>>>>>> place
>>>>>>>> as shown
>>>>>>>> in photo 1. However, if I loosen the screw (shown in photo 3) in
>>>>>>>> the non-pivoting arm just a smidgen, that arm pivots too. Also,
>>>>>>>> the washer shown
>>>>>>>> in the picture mounts under the screw head. There is no washer on
>>>>>>>> the other
>>>>>>>> side of the derailleur (missing perhaps?) that attaches to the
>>>>>>>> frame (see picture 4)
>>>>>>>> I initially thought since the screw threads don't go all the way
>>>>>>>> up to the
>>>>>>>> top of the head, that that part of the derailleur should pivot,
>>>>>>>> and since it
>>>>>>>> didn't pivot, something was worn out. But I thought I'd ask the
>>>>>>>> experts and
>>>>>>>> find out for sure.
>>>>>>> I'll pile on, to be sure you understand. I've got that same
>>>>>>> derailleur on two of my bikes.
>>>>>>> In normal operation, that derailleur should not rotate
>>>>>>> counterclockwise about the top pivot. It pivots only clockwise,
>>>>>>> and only when you pull the entire derailleur body back when
>>>>>>> removing or reinstalling the rear wheel.
>>>>>>> When you let go of the derailleur after reinstalling the wheel, it
>>>>>>> should snap forward (counterclockwise) until it hits a stop, and
>>>>>>> always stay in that same position. There's an adjusting screw to
>>>>>>> fine-tune where it hits that stop, but it's usually not very
>>>>>>> critical, in my experience.
>>>>>>> More modern derailleurs swing (and have springs) at both pivots you
>>>>>>> showed. That's needed with "index shifting" (i.e. click
>>>>>>> shifting). But you have "friction shifting" (i.e. no clicks) and
>>>>>>> that old derailleur works well with that system.
>>>>>> Suntour says[1] adjust top pivot screw such that nameplate
>>>>>> of the body is parallel to the chainstay. You're right, it
>>>>>> usually is not at all critical, close is OK
>>>>>> [2] read 'said' for those who are not in denial of Suntour's
>>>>>> unfortunate demise.
>>>>> I removed the shim. Put the screw back in. Now it pivots perfectly. I
>>>>> adjusted the pivot screw as you described though it wasn't very easy
>>>>> to tell when the two pieces were parallel.
>>>>> Referring back to the photos with some new ones added,
>>>>> www.webpages.charter.net/mrfixiter/images/Azuki
>>>>> I have another question. When I removed the screw in photo 1 to
>>>>> clean out the insides, I discovered the coiled spring in there that
>>>>> applies tension to the chain. When you disassemble that part, the
>>>>> spring can be removed from the shaft. Long story short, when you
>>>>> reassemble the spring into the cylinder, there is a post with 6
>>>>> different detents. See photo 5, with spring removed, and photo 6,
>>>>> with spring "installed." The reason I put installed in quotes is
>>>>> because you have to preload the spring before you insert it in the
>>>>> cylinder. In photo 7, there are two holes at the base of the cylinder.
>>>>> The
>>>>> other end of the spring fits into either of these two holes. When
>>>>> you combine the options of those two holes on one end of the spring
>>>>> and then the combination of possible detents at the other end of the
>>>>> spring, you have a whole lot of spring tensions from which to
>>>>> select. Is there some rule of thumb for this? Of course I didn't
>>>>> photograph it before I disassembled it.
>>>> You turned to the harder path back at the last fork.
>>>> Normally, one removes the cage stop screw first. After the
>>>> spring unwinds, note the position of the cage and set it at
>>>> the same position when reassembling after cleaning[1].
>>>> Next, wind the cage spring and then screw in the stop screw.
>>>> Same process for Campagnolo, Zeus, most models of the era.
>>>> Most Suntour models start with the lower pulley up to the
>>>> right about 1:00 or 2:00 to the nameplate. Simplex have a
>>>> nicely stamped pointer on the bolt so one might easily line
>>>> up the cage, lock it in place and then wind the spring. Of
>>>> course Simplex are no longer with us.
>>>> [1] or at least make note of it so any necessary or intended
>>>> changes have some known starting point.
>>> I've taken a zoomed out picture and added it to the other photos.
>>> http://webpages.charter.net/mrfixiter/images/Azuki/
>>> Can you tell by looking at photo 9 whether or not things look aligned
>>> correctly? I'm not understanding what two reference points to use for the
>>> 1:00-2:00 setting.
>> With the cage stop screw out of the derailleur altogether, but with the
>> derailleur otherwise complete and assembled, the cage spring will be
>> slack.
>> Assuming the nameplate is a horizontal baseline for our purposes, i.e., a
>> line from 9:00 to 3:00, the lower roller will be at roughly 1~2:00 before
>> winding the spring.
>> If it is, wind the spring and then install the cage stop screw.
>> If it is not, disassemble the cage pivot assembly and reassemble until it
>> is in that position or at least close (or in whatever position the factory
>> originally set it, if known). Then wind the cage spring and replace the
>> cage stop screw.
>> Hope that's helpful.
> Which screw is the cage stop screw? Is it the one I have marked in photo 8
> that says angle adjustment?
pivot spring from unwinding. Analogous to a Campagnolo #811
or 811a.
David Farber
"kolldata" <data...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:d6db0e9f-77b6-4866...@p25g2000pri.googlegroups.com...
David Farber
I've added two photos. Does photo 11 show the approximate 1:00-2:00
position?
Frank Krygowski
done probably three.
But a couple general tips, for the future (and not only bike
projects):
1) It's better to use the digital camera for your own reference,
before you disassemble, and as you disassemble.
2) This isn't rocket science. Except for low gear limit and high gear
limit screws, most adjustments aren't critical. You can do this! Use
some trial and error!
The first time I took one of those apart, it was because the torsion
spring's end tang had broken off. I had no way to tell what preload
tension was appropriate. So I bent a new tang into the end of the
spring, and tried different hole and slot positions until it felt
right.
That derailleur is still in use over 30 years later.
- Frank Krygowski
David Farber
The bike shifts fairly well. I figured as long as I was cleaning it up a
bit, I'd adjust it the way it was supposed to be. If not, I can put it back
together in 10 minutes and ride it the way it was.
Peter Cole
derailer? Things have come a long way since then.
AMuzi
product but rather his intellectual curiosity. I could be wrong.
David Farber
"Peter Cole" <peter...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:j4fmm6$c95$2...@dont-email.me...
If it needed replacing, I'd replace it. No one has suggested replacing it
until now. It certainly functions properly. I am just curious about the
mechanics of it. I am neither a bicycle mechanic nor a serious rider. I
don't have the experience of having looked at any other disassembled
derailleurs. I started out with a question which I thought would have a
simple answer. It was nice to see so many helpful and expert responses. I
was able to correct the stuck hanger by removing the shim under the screw.
Then I disassembled the cage which holds the torsion spring to clean it out.
I didn't take note of the position of the device before I removed the screw
which holds it under tension. I received some nice tips on how to realign
it. As one person said, easy to do, not so easy to explain on a newsgroup.
Even if I don't align it by the book, it may already be that when I
reassembled it, common sense allowed me to get it close enough. I would just
like to be able to verify that fact. Also, I know more about bicycle
mechanics now than I did before I posted my question and that is quite
satisfying.
Thanks for your reply.
Dan O
cameras :-)
What I learned is to analyze the assembly as you take it part, to
understand why it's put together the way it is, and then don't let a
basket case sit too terribly long (many months) after that.
"\"T°m Sherm@n >
> [...]
I would guess thousands.
--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731°N, 83.985007°W
I am a vehicular cyclist.
thirty-six
Have a careful look at the outer cage plate. It seems virtually
intact as regards anodising, this appears to be a relatively unused
example. I wonder if SR have a museum.
thirty-six
Ok, I shoulda done the close-up thingy. It is scarred, but that's no
bad thing. I don't know much about modern derailleurs that appear to
be made out of foil and plastic, but at least with these old things
you knew you could wallop them and expect them to work after you'd
pulled the grit from your arse. I'm not a fan of the one axis for
cage and jockey but my BL seemed to work well, better than the Campag
980 which was on before.
jgetsoian
Sorry about the type - the word was drop-out" which is the term for the
piece of the frame that holds the wheel and derailleur.
Yes in picture 8 the screw you highlighted is the angle screw. Sounds
like you have it figured out to me. The idea of the angle adjustment is
to keep the parallelogram action of the derailleur along a line where it
maintains the smallest distance from the upper chain idler to the cogs
rather than the cog moving forward or backward with respect to the cogs
at either end of the shifting range. As has been noted, it's not an
adjustment that makes a lot of difference really.
Happy riding.
j. getsoian
jgetsoian
> On Sep 8, 5:16 pm, Frank Krygowski<frkrygowREM...@gEEmail.com> wrote:
>>> Pictures of the problem are here:
>>
>>> http://webpages.charter.net/mrfixiter/images/Azuki/
>>
>>> This is an old 10 speed road bike from the '70's. In photo 1, if you push on
>>> the lower gear in the direction shown, the arm pivots on its mount.
>>
>>> In photo 2, that arm does not pivot if you push in the same place as shown
>>> in photo 1. However, if I loosen the screw (shown in photo 3) in the
>>> non-pivoting arm just a smidgen, that arm pivots too. Also, the washer shown
>>> in the picture mounts under the screw head. There is no washer on the other
>>> side of the derailleur (missing perhaps?) that attaches to the frame (see
>>> picture 4)
>>
>>> I initially thought since the screw threads don't go all the way up to the
>>> top of the head, that that part of the derailleur should pivot, and since it
>>> didn't pivot, something was worn out. But I thought I'd ask the experts and
>>> find out for sure.
>>
>> on two of my bikes.
>>
>> In normal operation, that derailleur should not rotate counterclockwise
>> about the top pivot. It pivots only clockwise, and only when you pull
>> the entire derailleur body back when removing or reinstalling the rear
>> wheel.
>>
>> When you let go of the derailleur after reinstalling the wheel, it
>> should snap forward (counterclockwise) until it hits a stop, and always
>> stay in that same position. There's an adjusting screw to fine-tune
>> where it hits that stop, but it's usually not very critical, in my
>> experience.
>>
>> More modern derailleurs swing (and have springs) at both pivots you
>> showed. That's needed with "index shifting" (i.e. click shifting).
>
> to see a connection other than marketing.
>
>> you have "friction shifting" (i.e. no clicks) and that old derailleur
>> works well with that system.
>
> design (not marketting)capacity.
I rode on of these VGTs with a six speed hub and indexed downtube
shifters on one of my bikes and it worked quite well. Then I got old and
too lazy to reach down and went to Campy Aero.... ;)
thirty-six
It does. How close the jockey lies to the intended shift determines
how quickly it shifts. Too close and it's going to get hung up and
stick in the current gear. Too far and you need to overshift to get
the chain to disengage the current gear. So you either set it close
for early shifts or standard for centred shifts. With the co-axial
cage and jockey pivots it's best to make it a slightly early shift.
There is also minimum wraparound to consider which should be seven
sprocket teeth at full engagement. This is where Suntour was better
than Campag when shifting on the small sprockets under load. You play
around with chain length, axle position and the angle adjustment until
finding the best shifting for the critical gears of the day. After a
few trials you should be in a position where the angle adjustment
screw will optimise for the climbing gears and then close in the
paralellogram for quicker shifting at the speedier end if you don't
need the big un.
kolldata
> "kolldata" <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
off course ! the deray screws.....donut force. if the screw doesn't
movbe anything right off, look for a caws eg lift the deray backwards
then try turning the screw.
ASheldon Brown at Harris Cyclery online probably covers the
adjustment. get the cable slack right for coherent shifts-see Brown-
and adjust the front back motion to keep the chain from dragging. For
which you need the correct link count.
As for the tools, I bought tools for a 1978? carbon steel Japanese
sport tourer equipoped with top end Suntour. After 15-20K miles, an
upgrade went in for all systems leaving the frame(painted inside and
out) and headset nuts. If I replace the quill headset with a
threadless.....all those old tools now have no meaning.
Let see I'll post a photo link. I'm at a northern bike touring
terminus on San juan Island, summer prob setting at this time now. Run
into several riders while taking photos who had bused in then bought
THESE used bikes in the Seattle/Portland area for peanurts or so was
said.
kolldata
> - Show quoted text -