Durability tests on the 13 most popular 11-speed chains

[Andre Jute]

Dan Wood, the really useful cyclist in Oregon, has posted an interesting link on another forum.

Lennard Zinn, reporting on durability tests on the 13 most popular 11-speed chains conducted by Wippermann, found the strongest and the weakest chains, and produced a comparative cost per hour chart for ranking them. See it here:

https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/gear/we-went-to-germany-to-test-the-most-popular-bicycle-chains-heres-what-we-found_504284

Here's a related article on measuring chain wear accurately:

https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/gear/measuring-chain-wear-accurately_504301

Andre Jute
I still won't be buying an 11-speed derailleur gruppo

[jbeattie]

Uh, yah. That was in Velo News last issue. Don't you subscribe? BTW, Wippermann always wins the tests it performs. I think this was the second or third VeloNews Wippermann test in the last ten or so years.

-- Jay Beattie.

[Sepp Ruf]

jbeattie wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 7:02:21 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:

>> Lennard Zinn, reporting on durability tests on the 13 most popular
>> 11-speed chains conducted by Wippermann, found the strongest and the
>> weakest chains, and produced a comparative cost per hour chart for
>> ranking them. See it here:
>>
>> https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/gear/we-went-to-germany-to-test-the-most-popular-bicycle-chains-heres-what-we-found_504284
>>
>> Here's a related article on measuring chain wear accurately:
>>
>> https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/gear/measuring-chain-wear-accurately_504301

"After a run-in period, the chain is removed and cleaned with a solvent."
Why a solvent? Which solvent, and how much?
Why not use a bit of light lube on that rag pictured?

>> I still won't be buying an 11-speed derailleur gruppo

But what might be coming next? Before we know, AJ linking to a lighting test
involving friends-of-bumm?
https://www.rosebikes.de/document/5bc8e36b-9388-44e4-9a32-32211bd94002.pdf

Or their chain-lube test?
https://www.radfahren.de/test-teile/kettenoele-test/

> Uh, yah. That was in Velo News last issue. Don't you subscribe? BTW,
> Wippermann always wins the tests it performs. I think this was the second
> or third VeloNews Wippermann test in the last ten or so years.

The arrogant comments by Shimano or (Rohloff copycats) Campagnolo do not
inspire confidence their testing of other manufacturers' chains would be any
more trustworthy. We need a test involving American lube, US machinery, and
the meanest sand in the world from SE California!

[Andre Jute]

On Thursday, February 20, 2020 at 6:23:47 AM UTC, jbeattie wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 7:02:21 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
> > Dan Wood, the really useful cyclist in Oregon, has posted an interesting link on another forum.
> >
> > Lennard Zinn, reporting on durability tests on the 13 most popular 11-speed chains conducted by Wippermann, found the strongest and the weakest chains, and produced a comparative cost per hour chart for ranking them. See it here:
> >
> > https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/gear/we-went-to-germany-to-test-the-most-popular-bicycle-chains-heres-what-we-found_504284
> >
> > Here's a related article on measuring chain wear accurately:
> >
> > https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/gear/measuring-chain-wear-accurately_504301
> >
> > Andre Jute
> > I still won't be buying an 11-speed derailleur gruppo
>
> Uh, yah. That was in Velo News last issue.

Nah. I never read even the papers I wrote for; fast way to get ink on your fingers. Anything I need to know someone tells me. Anything I want to know I discover by asking someone who knows.

> Don't you subscribe? BTW, Wippermann always wins the tests it performs.

Of course they do. You should read a little history, Jay. The Germans always win. The entire EU is just a mechanism to enrich Germany; its monetary policy, and agricultural policy, in fact every one of its policies are aimed at giving the Germans their own way. You could probably get by by just reading old posts right here on RBT in which Andreas Oehler's name appears every time I complained that his favouritism was simply too blatant.

> I think this was the second or third VeloNews Wippermann test in the last ten or so years.

Now you tell me? Damn. Because of your slackness, I probably missed the 8-speed chain tests, a serious matter since I use only 8-sp chains, and in fact have a Wippermann Connex chain in my store.

Seriously: Notice the quality of Wippermann's test equipment and compare with that of Schmidt Maschinenbau, Oehler's employer. Notice that Wipperman has an engineer permanently on job to test their chains and the competition's chains. Notice that Wippermann, by your account have three times in the last decade invited an American magazine into their test facility, and presumably others in between.

There's more, but I'll save it for a serious forum; that's already enough to explain why I'm willing to go along with Wippermann three or four times as far as I would go with Oehler. But no, I doubt that my earlier good experience of Connex chains, or the Connex spare I have in my store, will wean me off the KMC chains that are one of the cornerstones of the refined end product of my bicycle's transmission.

> -- Jay Beattie.

Andre Jute
If I were paranoid, I'd think you withheld useful information from me on purpose

[Andre Jute]

On Thursday, February 20, 2020 at 8:25:10 AM UTC, Sepp Ruf wrote:
> jbeattie wrote:
> > On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 7:02:21 PM UTC-8, Andre Jute wrote:
>
> >> Lennard Zinn, reporting on durability tests on the 13 most popular
> >> 11-speed chains conducted by Wippermann, found the strongest and the
> >> weakest chains, and produced a comparative cost per hour chart for
> >> ranking them. See it here:
> >>
> >> https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/gear/we-went-to-germany-to-test-the-most-popular-bicycle-chains-heres-what-we-found_504284
> >>
> >> Here's a related article on measuring chain wear accurately:
> >>
> >> https://www.velonews.com/2020/01/gear/measuring-chain-wear-accurately_504301
>
> "After a run-in period, the chain is removed and cleaned with a solvent."
> Why a solvent? Which solvent, and how much?

Yes. That struck me too.

> Why not use a bit of light lube on that rag pictured?

Why use anything at all? See my opinion about this from when I first read Zinn's report at --
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=13719.msg102021#msg102021
-- by scrolling down until the second time you see a paragraph numbered "3".

> >> I still won't be buying an 11-speed derailleur gruppo
>
> But what might be coming next? Before we know, AJ linking to a lighting test
> involving friends-of-bumm?
> https://www.rosebikes.de/document/5bc8e36b-9388-44e4-9a32-32211bd94002.pdf

No Chinese flash lamps?

> Or their chain-lube test?
> https://www.radfahren.de/test-teile/kettenoele-test/

The answer to those pricey snake oils is: 1. Get hub gears. 2. Get a Hebie Chainglider. 3. Buy any KMC chain that turns you on. 4. Run the chain for its entire life inside the Chainglider on the factory lube. No muss, no fuss, no dirty hands.

> > Uh, yah. That was in Velo News last issue. Don't you subscribe? BTW,
> > Wippermann always wins the tests it performs. I think this was the second
> > or third VeloNews Wippermann test in the last ten or so years.
>
> The arrogant comments by Shimano or (Rohloff copycats) Campagnolo do not
> inspire confidence their testing of other manufacturers' chains would be any
> more trustworthy. We need a test involving American lube, US machinery, and
> the meanest sand in the world from SE California!

See my remarks above about whether lube is at all necessary.

The most vicious sand in the world comes from the Namib Desert. I've been in it, and I've been to Southern California, and the difference is off the chart.

Andre Jute
Connoisseur of deserts: I grew up in one.

[Tom Kunich]

They always win tests for wear because they're designed to wear the least if cost is no object. Is that hard to understand? All you do is use better materials. If price/performance is the object of the test they don't do that well. All of the Shimano chains are cheap for their wear rate.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 2/20/2020 6:35 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 19, 2020 at 10:23:47 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
>> BTW, Wippermann always wins the tests it performs. I think this was the second or third VeloNews Wippermann test in the last ten or so years.
>>
>

> They always win tests for wear because they're designed to wear the least if cost is no object. Is that hard to understand? All you do is use better materials. If price/performance is the object of the test they don't do that well. All of the Shimano chains are cheap for their wear rate.
>

Wipperman may win the tests we read about it performing, but that's
probably due to publication bias, not testing dishonesty.

I'd guess that if Wipperman did a test on their new chain and found it
wore out quicker than the competition's chains, they would improve on
their chain design. This would happen way before the chain was in
production.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Andre Jute]

Maybe that's true of the Shimano chains in the test (I wouldn't know -- it's twenty years since I last owned a derailleur bike), but it isn't true of Shimano's chain sets in the Nexus group. I say chain-seta, because I had to buy a new crankset (the chainring is attached to the crank) every time I changed the chain, and that was never at a longer interval than a thousand miles. You can imagine how pissed-off I was when It dawned on me that the bother and the expense would be a recurring theme.

Andre Jute
I'm an admirer of Shimano, but not of the peripheral components in their Nexus Gruppo.

[Mark Cleary]

I get 5-6k on a Shimano 11 speed and since I run Shimano the all Shimano drivetrain shifts the best. Cheap and work really why buy any other. I do like wipperman connex they got the quick link figured out the best.

Deacon mark cleary

[Tom Kunich]

On Monday, February 24, 2020 at 10:35:16 AM UTC-8, Mark Cleary wrote:
> I get 5-6k on a Shimano 11 speed and since I run Shimano the all Shimano drivetrain shifts the best. Cheap and work really why buy any other. I do like wipperman connex they got the quick link figured out the best.
>
> Deacon mark cleary

I agree pretty much with you but don't think that any other 11 speed chain isn't equally interchangeable and that all of them have the lift section of the links properly accomplished.

[lou.h...@gmail.com]

Half of my fleet is Campagnolo equipped and the other half Shimano. All 11 speed. I see no difference in shifting performance using a Shimano chain on the Campagnolo equipped bikes or vice versa. There is a price difference and a durability difference. A campagnolo Record chain last two times longer than a Ultegra chain but the Ultegra chain is half the price of a Record chain. Record chains are never on sale Ultegra chains regularly. I tried a KMC chain because it came pre lubed with my favorite wax lube. This saved me the initial cleaning of the factory lube of the new chain. I was really disappointed about the durability of this chain. Won't use them anymore. Will stick to Ultegra and/or Campagnolo Record chains.

Lou

[Andre Jute]

On Monday, February 24, 2020 at 9:32:41 PM UTC, lou.h...@gmail.com wrote:
> I tried a KMC chain because it came pre lubed with my favorite wax lube. This saved me the initial cleaning of the factory lube of the new chain. I was really disappointed about the durability of this chain. Won't use them anymore. Will stick to Ultegra and/or Campagnolo Record chains.

This is odd. KMC 8sp chains, in conjunction with a Chainglider to enclose the chain and running on the factory lube for the entire life of the chain plus steel chainrings to get rid of ground aluminium, nearly tripled the mileage I got on other chains, in particular the Shimano Nexus.

Andre Jute
YMMV

[lou.h...@gmail.com]

I can'T comment on that. It depends of course of the model and I compared the KMC chain with my Ultegra 11 speed and Record 11 speed chain experience. Normally I am not hard on chains especially in this case. It was on my Aeroad which I only use in dry conditions (CF rims and rim brakes). With a Record chain I check the wear maybe once every season with a Shimano Ultegra chain I have to pay more attention but with the used KMC chain I was too late and ruined my cassette after 3500 km.
YMMV.

Lou

[AMuzi]

There are several models/quality levels for each
specification of KMC chain. And there are rider service
conditions, load, environment which vary even more.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Tosspot]

In my experience the environment is the biggest factor in chain wear.
Dry miles only would at *least* double the life of my chains (I have one
DMO), a winter commute *eats* chains for breakfast, lunch and dinner :-(

[John B.]

On Tue, 25 Feb 2020 07:16:23 +0100, Tosspot <Frank...@gmail.com>
wrote:

And if you were to enclose your chain in a sealed and oil filled
"chain case" think how long it would last :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

[Andre Jute]

Quite. My experience, and the experience of others in the touring/commuting community is however that there is peak price/mileage point somewhere in the middle of the range. For me it falls at the X8-93 level. The cheaper chains don't bring a huge saving, the more expensive chains would only be justified at mileages that a masher like me will never see. I'm well satisfied with the KMC chains I used and don't hesitate to recommend them. (The most irritating thing about them is faintly ridiculous: the profusion of non-interchangeable quick-link specs.) That's why I was so surprised to hear that Lou had a less than satisfactory experience with them.

As always: chains are the cheapest part of most bicycle transmissions: they aren't worth agonising over: that is a leftover from when bicycling was the poor workingman's sport and transport.

Andre Jute
YMMV -- literally!

[Andre Jute]

The late great Jobst Brandt use to say that grinding paste was nothing except dust and oil, of which there is plenty around any bike.

> And if you were to enclose your chain in a sealed and oil filled
> "chain case" think how long it would last :-)
> --
> cheers,
>
> John B.

You should grow up and come forward into the twentieth century, Slow Johnny. The rest of us have already reached the twenty-first century.

There is no such thing in bicycles as a "chain in a sealed and oil filled 'chain case'" -- I don't know where you get these ignorant ideas. Surely it should be obvious even to an ignoramus like you that such a thing would be too heavy for bicycle use.

As for an ***enclosing*** chaincase (neither "sealed" nor "oil filled"), it nearly trebled my mileage per chain.

Andre Jute
I don't guess. I measure.