How to fix loosening downtube SIS shifter screw?

[Ed Treijs]

Used SIS downtube shifter for a 7-speed derailleur, screwed into
downtube shifter boss.

The screw holding the shifter to the downtube loosens with every
downshift. By the time it stops loosening, shifting has become really
bad. When the screw is tightened, shifting is good, but now it seems
to be loosening daily.

This is a used shifter, not sure of its type. It does not have the
ability to change to friction shifting. Probably a pretty basic 7-
speed SIS.

Any suggestions for fixing this problem? I am thinking of putting some
Lock-Tite on the screw tip.

[datakoll]

clean with denatured alcohol both male female using spiraled papertowel and/or brush if available. Like 2-3 times soaking screw in twist, clean paper each time.

then red locktite. place a drop on the male end, screw in and then out. Wait 5 minutes then apply 2-3 drops to female threads and onto the already treated male threads.

screw in to desired tightness, wait 10 seconds then tweak the male a wee bit more and hold the screw there for 10 seconds.

sacrifice a live chicken. throwing it under a bus is recommended.

[datakoll]

check the tube clamp before locktiting. could be the clamp is loose when the screw is temp tight.easy cure is a shim of poly water jug material.

[datakoll]

if you live in a cool wet area, heating the screw, moderately, with a hair dryer after installation or when holding it tight with a screwdriver-if you're compulsive, helps FIX the problem. Lock sells an 'accelerator' and an instant red locktite for compulsive swamp people

[Ed Treijs]

On May 23, 10:29 am, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> sacrifice a live chicken. throwing it under a bus is recommended.

Would a streetcar do? I have a choice.

> check the tube clamp before locktiting.

The shifters screw into brazed-on shifter bosses, there is no clamp
that I am aware of.

[datakoll]

extra points for vehicles carrying passengers !

with the frame mount try for a thorough thread cleaning but avoid soaking overflow with the alcohol could be paint on tube's ID surface. Local hardare or Grainger-online check for parts numbers-have round brushes to size. If not, a broken spoke filed sharp into a hook at the point is useable for thread scraping.

if going to Grainger's check the seatpost for rust...G has a brush for it.

[Sir Ridesalot]

Is this the shifter on the Chinook? If so, have you removed the
shifter for any reason before this problem started? A drop of locktite
should do the trick. Did this problem just start recently?

Cheers

[Ed Treijs]

On May 23, 12:30 pm, Sir Ridesalot <i_am_cycle_pat...@yahoo.ca> wrote:

> Is  this the shifter on the Chinook? If so, have you removed the
> shifter for any reason before this problem started? A drop of locktite
> should do the trick. Did this problem just start recently?

Yep, Chinook. No, never removed since we put it on. It was a problem
all along but seems to have gotten worse in the past couple of weeks.
It also depends on the number of shifts, since downshifting seems to
give it a chance to turn counterclockwise a bit. I've tightended that
screw a few times already.

Got some blue Loctite. Will clean up the threads and try the Loctite
tonight.

[datakoll]

GNAW bluemis for large bolts with large surface areas @ 3-4 feet

small fasteners 5mm> 6mm under pressure as on a rear touring rack ....#8> use RED.
also consider evaluating the current fastner strength maybe upgrading to a grade 5 or more if not chrome or stainless is accepotable as for the rack fasteners

a grade 5 fastener locked with RED would not break off turning out heat-as a worst case problem-the smalller surface areas allow hand tool turnout using RED.

RED and BLUE fix torn out threading but RED is more reliable....also a coupla bucks more.

[John B.]

There are a couple of finicky little washers that go under the screws.
See Shimano Docs for SL7800 shifter installation instructions.

--
Cheers,

John B.

[LF]

On Wednesday, May 23, 2012 9:45:13 AM UTC-4, Ed Treijs wrote:
> Used SIS downtube shifter <snip>

> The screw holding the shifter to the downtube loosens with every

> downshift.<snip> Any suggestions for fixing this problem? I am thinking of putting some Lock-Tite on the screw tip.

Ed,
Try BEESWAX.

Best,
Larry

[raamman]

use a hammer; they fix everything- just keep hitting till its fixed
good

[Ed Treijs]

On May 24, 7:12 am, John B. <johnbsloc...@gmail.com> wrote:

> >Got some blue Loctite. Will clean up the threads and try the Loctite
> >tonight.
>
> There are a couple of finicky little washers that go under the screws.
> See Shimano Docs for SL7800 shifter installation instructions.

Right, I was thinking this morning that there are probably some parts
missing. That was when I was applying the Loctite.

Well, with the screw reefed down and (hopefully) locked, the shifter
shifts accurately--just push/pull and the next click is the next gear
exactly. It's not a light action, which may be a function of missing
washers and overtightened screw. But, at this point, if it works,
that's good enough for me.

I think the front derailleur shifter is in the same "missing some
parts" condition. It shifts, but hardly lightly, and makes funny
groaning sounds. Nevertheless, it does not slip; nor does its screw
loosen. This again is an improvement over the previous shifter, whose
action was light, but which tended to downshift on its own.

[thirty-six]

On May 23, 3:37 pm, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> if you live in a cool wet area, heating the screw, moderately, with a hair dryer after installation or when holding it tight with a screwdriver-if you're compulsive, helps FIX the problem. Lock sells an 'accelerator' and an instant red locktite for compulsive swamp people

Hermetite red, gasket sealant, is quick and fills loose threads.
Glazier's putty which is chalk/clay(?) and linseed can also do
similar but for close threads we still have regular boiled linseed
oil.

I guess some rotten horse shit would be sticky enough.

[thirty-six]

Yep, I used gasket sealant on my Campag' stuff.

[Dan O]

On May 24, 4:12 am, John B. <johnbsloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 23 May 2012 10:45:25 -0700 (PDT), Ed Treijs
>

You might try something Mickey Mouse like a pair of washers made of
thin cardboard with one glossy side facing each other (like two pairs
of socks to slip against each other preventing blisters). ISTR one
thin metal and one poly or teflon washer in my old basic SIS 6-speed
shifter.

[Dan O]

Ah, that sounds like a good idea - maybe on the glossy interface of my
Mickey Mouse cereal-box washers.

[AMuzi]

One common failure mode for that series is that the six
teeny little zinc cast pegs on the back of the lever break
off and lodge in slots of the base washer. Remove lever
assembly, look on the back side. If that's your trouble, get
a pair of levers, they are cheap.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Ed Treijs]

On May 24, 5:16 pm, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

> One common failure mode for that series is that the six
> teeny little zinc cast pegs on the back of the lever break
> off and lodge in slots of the base washer. Remove lever
> assembly, look on the back side. If that's your trouble, get
> a pair of levers, they are cheap.

Hmm, need to find a bicycle shop with these sorts of things on hand.

My first attempt failed, but then I put on the Locktite twenty minutes
before riding. The screw started backing out.

Second attempt last night. This morning I discovered that the indexing
is off by one click at the low end, and further up it's the worst
combination of friction and index. I guess I'll take it off tonight.
Having a mystery shifter is a real nuisance in busy traffic with lots
of stoplights and rough roads. I really don't want to be trying to
coax the shifter to keep me in the right gear. Acceleration through
the gears is my competitive advantage (28-13 freewheel, 42/53 front,
start from first gear, click through the gears while maintaining a
cadence of 90-100).

[Dan O]

Competitive? You mean fighting (car) traffic? With lots of stop
lights?

For me, constantly derailing the chain to shift gears in traffic just
complicates matters (jeez especially reaching for a downtube lever?)
On the rare occasions that I absolutely have to stop, I usually only
drop to a 48/14 or maybe 48/16. Then I start off easy to get in
torque sync for a couple crank revolutions, then mash it side to side
and am quickly getting up to speed in a few more (revolutions), then
hammer away. Ride Bike - not fiddle with mechanical controls. The
competitve advantage is maneuverability; to exercise this you need
both hands on the bars and your body position free for hammer the
pedals.

I get my competitive advantage from anticipating the cagers
constraints, assessing my options that leverage the bicycle's
advantage in maneuverability, plan and execute alternatives that
circumvent those constraints, and leave the cagers to their own
problem, only using a few gears.

But yeah - you want shifting to be reliable and trouble-free in any
case.

[Ed Treijs]

On May 25, 11:54 am, Dan O <danover...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > On May 24, 5:16 pm, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
> > > One common failure mode for that series is that the six
> > > teeny little zinc cast pegs on the back of the lever break
> > > off and lodge in slots of the base washer. Remove lever
> > > assembly, look on the back side. If that's your trouble, get
> > > a pair of levers, they are cheap.
>
> > Hmm, need to find a bicycle shop with these sorts of things on hand.
>
> > My first attempt failed, but then I put on the Locktite twenty minutes
> > before riding. The screw started backing out.
>
> > Second attempt last night. This morning I discovered that the indexing
> > is off by one click at the low end, and further up it's the worst
> > combination of friction and index. I guess I'll take it off tonight.
> > Having a mystery shifter is a real nuisance in busy traffic with lots
> > of stoplights and rough roads. I really don't want to be trying to
> > coax the shifter to keep me in the right gear. Acceleration through
> > the gears is my competitive advantage (28-13 freewheel, 42/53 front,
> > start from first gear, click through the gears while maintaining a
> > cadence of 90-100).
>
> Competitive?  You mean fighting (car) traffic?  With lots of stop
> lights?

I have about 11 stop signs and 25 traffic lights on my commute
(depending on the direction, and whether I've remembered them all),
and possibly streetcars (stop when passengers unloading). And yes I
stop at stop signs and red lights. Plus the fun part of lane-splitting
between stopped cars when there's gridlock. Also slower bicyclists,
like those puttering along on Dutch-style bikes.

> For me, constantly derailing the chain to shift gears in traffic just
> complicates matters (jeez especially reaching for a downtube lever?)
> On the rare occasions that I absolutely have to stop, I usually only
> drop to a 48/14 or maybe 48/16.  Then I start off easy to get in
> torque sync for a couple crank revolutions, then mash it side to side
> and am quickly getting up to speed in a few more (revolutions), then
> hammer away.  Ride Bike - not fiddle with mechanical controls.  The
> competitve advantage is maneuverability; to exercise this you need
> both hands on the bars and your body position free for hammer the
> pedals.

My knees don't like mashing off a stop. I have certainly followed
many riders who follow your example. They may or may not catch up
later (the ones on Cervelos with team jerseys usually do, assuming
they stop at all), but I will drop them for at least half a block. At
stops, I check the chain positions of cyclists ahead of me, and plan
to get around the ones who are going to be starting off in an upper
gear.

Anyway, I am "Riding Bike". If I didn't want to fiddle with mechanical
controls, surely I'd walk? Now, "Ride Fixie", I (and my knees) will
reject.

> I get my competitive advantage from anticipating the cagers
> constraints, assessing my options that leverage the bicycle's
> advantage in maneuverability, plan and execute alternatives that
> circumvent those constraints, and leave the cagers to their own
> problem, only using a few gears.

Zippo maneuverability when it's gridlocked traffic, it's more like
threading the needle between side-view mirrors. Blowing through
traffic lights I consider uncool, though there are plenty of cyclists
who do that. I presume most are lucky when they don't hit pedestrians
or get run over by a car that's going through on the green.

[datakoll]

what you need is an 11 speed Nexus

https://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en&tab=gw#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=ebay+shimano-nexus&oq=ebay+shimano-nexus&aq=f&aqi=g-q1&aql=&gs_l=hp.3..0i22.27104.30612.1.35084.16.12.0.0.0.3.669.2413.3-2j1j2.5.0...0.0.Ol6ToRl_whQ&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=445ae1130d69390f&biw=1152&bih=635

using Locktite ensures you left parts out or didn't test

[Dan O]

On May 25, 12:02 pm, Ed Treijs <ed.toro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 25, 11:54 am, Dan O <danover...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > > On May 24, 5:16 pm, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
> > > > One common failure mode for that series is that the six
> > > > teeny little zinc cast pegs on the back of the lever break
> > > > off and lodge in slots of the base washer. Remove lever
> > > > assembly, look on the back side. If that's your trouble, get
> > > > a pair of levers, they are cheap.
>
> > > Hmm, need to find a bicycle shop with these sorts of things on hand.
>
> > > My first attempt failed, but then I put on the Locktite twenty minutes
> > > before riding. The screw started backing out.
>
> > > Second attempt last night. This morning I discovered that the indexing
> > > is off by one click at the low end, and further up it's the worst
> > > combination of friction and index. I guess I'll take it off tonight.
> > > Having a mystery shifter is a real nuisance in busy traffic with lots
> > > of stoplights and rough roads. I really don't want to be trying to
> > > coax the shifter to keep me in the right gear. Acceleration through
> > > the gears is my competitive advantage (28-13 freewheel, 42/53 front,
> > > start from first gear, click through the gears while maintaining a
> > > cadence of 90-100).
>
> > Competitive? You mean fighting (car) traffic? With lots of stop
> > lights?
>
> I have about 11 stop signs and 25 traffic lights on my commute

Wow, that's a lot. I don't think I encounter nearly that many traffic
controls in my ~30 mile commute.

> (depending on the direction, and whether I've remembered them all)

Now that's the thing for me; not so much direction, as route. If I
took the most popular roads (the ones that all the cagers like), I'd
see a lot more traffic controls. I am always looking for routes that
take me away from traffic. Less traffic means fewer traffic controls,
and the remaining ones don't matter so much.

,
> and possibly streetcars (stop when passengers unloading). And yes I
> stop at stop signs and red lights. Plus the fun part of lane-splitting
> between stopped cars when there's gridlock. Also slower bicyclists,
> like those puttering along on Dutch-style bikes.
>
> > For me, constantly derailing the chain to shift gears in traffic just
> > complicates matters (jeez especially reaching for a downtube lever?)
> > On the rare occasions that I absolutely have to stop, I usually only
> > drop to a 48/14 or maybe 48/16. Then I start off easy to get in
> > torque sync for a couple crank revolutions, then mash it side to side
> > and am quickly getting up to speed in a few more (revolutions), then
> > hammer away. Ride Bike - not fiddle with mechanical controls. The
> > competitve advantage is maneuverability; to exercise this you need
> > both hands on the bars and your body position free for hammer the
> > pedals.
>
> My knees don't like mashing off a stop. I have certainly followed
> many riders who follow your example. They may or may not catch up
> later (the ones on Cervelos with team jerseys usually do, assuming
> they stop at all), but I will drop them for at least half a block. At
> stops, I check the chain positions of cyclists ahead of me, and plan
> to get around the ones who are going to be starting off in an upper
> gear.
>

I didn't mean disdain. If you can shift 10-14 times while
accellerating through traffic, you have my respect.

> Anyway, I am "Riding Bike". If I didn't want to fiddle with mechanical
> controls, surely I'd walk? Now, "Ride Fixie", I (and my knees) will
> reject.
>

I just mean, for me, Ride bike is two wheels and handlerbars and
saddle and pedals. Propulsion and speed are necessary, but I don't
make rocket science out of it.

> > I get my competitive advantage from anticipating the cagers
> > constraints, assessing my options that leverage the bicycle's
> > advantage in maneuverability, plan and execute alternatives that
> > circumvent those constraints, and leave the cagers to their own
> > problem, only using a few gears.
>
> Zippo maneuverability when it's gridlocked traffic, it's more like
> threading the needle between side-view mirrors.

I use my maneuverability to take me completely out of the gridlock
(off-road is always a consideration - one of my favorite options, in
fact). Door zone makes me nervous.

> Blowing through
> traffic lights I consider uncool,

It is, kind of. But if a tree falls in the forest, and no one is
around to hear it... and even if someone does hear it, as long as it
doesn't fall on their head or block their path or give them a heart
attack...

> though there are plenty of cyclists
> who do that. I presume most are lucky when they don't hit pedestrians
> or get run over by a car that's going through on the green.

Colliding with stuff is an altogether separate thing from disobeying
traffic control.

[race...@yahoo.com]

I ran 6-speed SIS for over 100,000 km with downtube paddles. The 7-speed version has a stronger castellated index crown than the old sixers did (they would break off teeth). The brazed nut's threads can wear over the years, but the screw itself can share a bit of wear. Take a close look at the screw end. You can replace that screw if available or swap a better-condition used one.

Loctite 242 is "milder" than the high temp 272 and should do the job. Another possibility, if you are careful, is to "dimple" the last few threads of the screw, widening an edge to hold on to the brazed nut, a machinist's trick, this is one single line along the axis of the bolt, looking like a so-called "self-tapping" fastener.

It's best to have a spare replacement screw on hand, and to be methodical. Your goal is to feel slightly more resistance when installing the screw,rather than a loose fit- but not so much change that you could damage the existing threads of the nut! Having a wobbly screw damages the threads over time as it wobbles during shifting.

Bobby

[Ed Treijs]

Update....I disassembled and reassembled Sunday morning, making sure
the screw wasn't overtightened and that the indexing was working. Then
I left it to cure for close to 24 hours. This morning, everything is
working fine. Shifts are accurate and action is reasonably light. If
the screw doesn't shift or loosen, I think I'm good.

If this arrangement starts to fail again, I will replace the lot,
including the screw which has been stressed through repeated
tightenings and possibly overtightenings. It would be nice to get an
NOS set of seven speed shifters, preferably of the higher-end
versions. Realistically, it will be used parts.

[datakoll]

Friction shifters used h19ere are upscale Shimano from 1978.

Blue lock may loosen at the exterior allowing moisture creep. Red would be tighter...under a finish coat of linseed, a dab.

[datakoll]

Fixing loose thread, material worn beyond or at spec limits...as the problem is measurable is tril and error with success definite by a 3rd or 4th try.

Locktite exists for this end, the definite solution for the problem.

Used friction shifters are often NEW used, never used to wearing out. Look around online in geographic retirement areas. If you ask, someone will come forward with a new set in box.

[Chalo]

datakoll wrote:
>
> Fixing loose thread, material worn beyond or at spec limits...as the problem is measurable is tril and error with success definite by a 3rd or 4th try.
>
> Locktite exists for this end, the definite solution for the problem.

Loctite is probably not a good idea for fasteners that can only be loosened by means of a D-ring or a shallow screwdriver slot. Those things don't have a torque spec anyway. How you gonna take it back apart or adjust it a little tighter if you can't use any kind of wrench? Burn the paint off your downtube just so you can break the Loctite?

My thinking is if you need Loctite, something else is already wrong.

Chalo

[AMuzi]

> datakoll wrote:
>> Fixing loose thread, material worn beyond or at spec limits...as the problem is measurable is tril and error with success definite by a 3rd or 4th try.
>>
>> Locktite exists for this end, the definite solution for the problem.

Chalo wrote:
> Loctite is probably not a good idea for fasteners that can only be loosened by means of a D-ring or a shallow screwdriver slot. Those things don't have a torque spec anyway. How you gonna take it back apart or adjust it a little tighter if you can't use any kind of wrench? Burn the paint off your downtube just so you can break the Loctite?
> My thinking is if you need Loctite, something else is already wrong.

Indeed. Once the conversation turns to duct tape or locktite
for simple mechanical problems I usually just butt out of
the thread.

[John B.]

Or just use friction shifters, then you don't have to worry about 5,
7, 9, 10 or 11 speed. They work with everything :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[datakoll]

ehat's wrong hmmmm Friday/Mondaynat the works, supplier lied, works bought from 5 and 10 that day, owner removed screw rescrewed with wrond screw, owner cross threaded, owner is using totally wrong screw size.

me and you would throw the old screw into the can, run a tap down the frame screw, clean with CHOH then insert

DRUM ROLL PUHLEASE

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1152&bih=635&q=allen+screw+head&gbv=2&oq=allen+screw&aq=2&aqi=g4g-S6&aql=&gs_l=img.1.2.0l4j0i24l6.2508.8404.0.19546.13.12.1.0.0.0.350.2023.4j3j4j1.12.0...0.0.Eo97Z5iW4BQ

after locktiting , off course.

locktite not only keeps stuff from fallling off but with linseed sealers, prevents rusting

'dimpling' ? yawl gonna strip,out all the good threads on the way in ? whazzit ?

[Tom $herman (-_-)]

On 5/28/2012 1:54 PM, A. Muzi wrote:
>
> Indeed. Once the conversation turns to duct tape or locktite for simple
> mechanical problems I usually just butt out of the thread.

I am familiar with butted tubing, but butted threads? ;)

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731°N, 83.985007°W
Post Free or Die!

[Ed Treijs]

The problem is that I'm trying to use 25-year-old Shimano components,
or their modern updates. If I could get new-in-box downtube indexed
shifters at a reasonable price, I would go for that. I may even have
to rummage around used parts bins to find some good used shifters. In
the meantime, if Locktite keeps things functioning, well it's easier
to find Locktite than new 7-speed SIS shifters. Not the ideal
solution, but if it works....

[datakoll]

http://www.mcmaster.com/#

search bolts and nuts

the Hellwig rear anti-roll bar on muh Ford E250 uses tight threaded plated 1/2" nuts holding everyhting together as we roll down Ca-33.

Cautionsly threaded before app to see what threade tighter tighter stop ! GO NO FURTHER ! cleaned with CHOH, applied red loctite and torqued down...

like the granite headstone ads...

then coated with Rusto..

McMaster carries the nuts buy a couple net time thru...

Somehere,, if its Italy it must be Thursday....there was a woman hassling a dude about his bar covered with rust....his mother ?

She shouted "Gene's bar is painted black you stupid dork..your's is covered with brown rust."

Maybe she payed for it ?

[datakoll]

yeah these Hellwig nuts were an interestign mechanical tactile experience...with fingertips rolling the nut there came a definite progressive torque load to unnnnngh tight stop go no further with fingertips.

new thread producing machinery ? laser equipment ?

Nice. and obviously you get one shot at this and go home....Ford did not leave room for trial and error.

alternative action is useing reg nuts then using he tight threaded nuts for final screwups.

[AMuzi]

These ?
http://www.sdtrucksprings.com/images/load-pro-25%5B1%5D.pdf

Dunno, my car has IRS with coils:
http://www.corvaircorsa.com/tech/laterear.jpg

[Tom $herman (-_-)]

On 5/29/2012 2:18 PM, A. Muzi wrote:
> datakoll wrote:
>> yeah these Hellwig nuts were an interestign mechanical tactile
>> experience...with fingertips rolling the nut there came a definite
>> progressive torque load to unnnnngh tight stop go no further with
>> fingertips.
>>
>> new thread producing machinery ? laser equipment ?
>>
>> Nice. and obviously you get one shot at this and go home....Ford did
>> not leave room for trial and error.
>>
>> alternative action is useing reg nuts then using he tight threaded
>> nuts for final screwups.
>
> These ?
> http://www.sdtrucksprings.com/images/load-pro-25%5B1%5D.pdf
>
> Dunno, my car has IRS with coils:
> http://www.corvaircorsa.com/tech/laterear.jpg
>

My CBR600F4i has a coil-over rear shock with remote reservoir:
<http://www.royaltyracing.com/media/18/c0a8644a1358ca63c6c7431_m.JPG>

[David Scheidt]

Ed Treijs <ed.to...@gmail.com> wrote:

:The problem is that I'm trying to use 25-year-old Shimano components,

:or their modern updates. If I could get new-in-box downtube indexed
:shifters at a reasonable price, I would go for that. I may even have

If you're in the US, your local shop should be able to get you a set
of sunrace shifters. Index only rear, though. I think I paid 25
bucks the last time I bought some. Not as nice as the shimanos, but
new. and working.


--
sig 87

[race...@yahoo.com]

Loose Screws has a Shimano 7-speed index shifter available. They have the rear unit only. You can still use the existing lever with a careful reworking. Check this out: http://www.loosescrews.com/index.cgi?d=single&c=Shifter&sc=Miscellaneous%20Shimano&tc=Indexing%20Units&item_id=SH-6489802&id=686243618058

It's a long URL but this is for the exact listing. The assembly includes a new bolt.

Bobby

[datakoll]

probabbly. McMaster-Carr carry such ? I'm told the nuts are specifically made for hellwig. The McM C catalog would show a 'travel 'spec ? as the nut goes on so far before seizing unless I'm missing something.

IRS are equipped with anti-roll or sway bars: all I assume as IRS does get out of control at speed. Itsnot a beam axle thing. The hellwig in muh van functions in part as a five link member nit 100% but helping to control in all areas not only front end body roll.

[datakoll]

loosescrews gottem ! Rear only ? what would complicate a single pull on the front deray ?

[datakoll]

no sway bar on the tail heavy 'vair. Always eternally amazed how American car manufacturers would leave out basic equipment....until the Japs put a gun to their behinds.

Never drove one...I fly a Beetle...maybe a good not. I have ridden in 'Vairs but never noticed appreciable front end roll as with Ford products.

Back when Chevy suspension engineering was respected.

The equipment/price ceiling blows the Velo

Where would Fed regs go into effetc or equippped Velo production ?

4 coils/shocks and a bombproof battery/gravity charger...

CARNAGE !

[datakoll]

OOOPS


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