Interesting comments on TV

[Tom Kunich]

They said that people are quitting corporate jobs by the thousands and starting their own business which are at least initially looking to be quite successful. The interesting thing is that none of these people have a college education. Seems that they appreciate learning through doing which Frank is absolutely opposed to. Franks thinks that the bike he rides which looks like it came from 1920, should be designed by someone with a PhD.

Well, his feelings must be really hurt by Felt being rated one of the best American bikes. Why, they don't have rack mounts!

[John B.]

But Tommy, Felt bikes are made in Asia... not the U.S.
https://bikexchange.com/bike-brands/felt-bicycles-review/
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 1 Dec 2021 08:33:31 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>They said that people are quitting corporate jobs by the thousands and starting their own business which are at least initially looking to be quite successful.

I don't know where you're getting the information that everyone is
starting their own business after they quit. Applications for new
business licenses certainly have increased, but the increase doesn't
cover the number that quit:
"BUSINESS FORMATION STATISTICS, OCTOBER 2021"
<https://www.census.gov/econ/bfs/pdf/bfs_current.pdf>
See graph on Pg 4. Oddly, the bulk of the startups are in retail,
which is also the sector that's having the most problems due to low
paying jobs. I'm not certain, but my guess(tm) is that the bulk of
these retail startups are where the former owner sells what's left of
the store to the employees.

According to the US Burro of Laborious Statistics, the average churn
is 3.0%/month.
<https://www.bls.gov/news.release/jolts.t04.htm>
Therefore, after about 33 months (a little less than 3 years),
EVERYONE will have quit their current jobs, gone into business for
themselves, and are living happily every after. Privatize the nation.
I like the concept. More on job turnover:
<https://www.bls.gov/news.release/jolts.toc.htm>

>The interesting thing is that none of these people have a college
>education.

None? All college graduates are staying on at their present employers
while non-graduates are starting new businesses? I don't think so:
"Another 3.9 million people quit their jobs in June and many are
getting higher-paying roles"
<https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/10/another-3point9-million-people-quit-their-jobs-in-june.html>
While average wage growth for all workers increased
just 1.5% in June compared to a year ago, it’s up
by 5.8% for job-switchers...
Just follow the money, which should be a clue.

Anyway, if you really want a college diploma, just print your own fake
diploma:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=fake+college+diploma&tbm=isch>
Since you claim to be able to do almost everything, you should have no
difficulty convincing any doubters that it's a real diploma.

Or, just get the T-Shirt:
<https://www.spreadshirt.com/shop/men/clothing/college+diploma/>

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Tom Kunich]

Perhaps you can point to me where I ever said that their carbon fiber bikes were made in America? You simply cannot hold yourself back from making stupid comments where ever you think you have some sort of opening? Is it your belief that Felt is a Chinese owned company?

[Tom Kunich]

You certainly are spending a great deal of time writing "I don't know" or "I'm not certain" (which is Jeff for "I don't know shit but will show it to everyone") You certainly are clever to think that if a new business is founded that it only employs a single person. It sort of really demonstrates the level of your intelligence for all to see and laugh at.

[John B.]

On Thu, 2 Dec 2021 08:21:12 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich

No, you said "Felt being rated one of the best American bikes" and I
said that they were made in Asia. What is where a company is
incorporated have to do with it?

Honda Motor Co., Inc. was established in Los Angeles, California in
1959, so Honda is an "American company"?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

You're right about Felt but these things can be
counterintuitive. For several years the motor vehicle with
the most USA content was a Toyota Camry.

Today, nine of the top twenty are 'Japanese' brands made in
US of A:
https://www.cars.com/articles/2021-cars-com-american-made-index-which-cars-are-the-most-american-437020/

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[John B.]

On Thu, 02 Dec 2021 17:22:49 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 12/2/2021 4:30 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 2 Dec 2021 08:21:12 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wednesday, December 1, 2021 at 2:28:46 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 1 Dec 2021 08:33:31 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>>>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> They said that people are quitting corporate jobs by the thousands and starting their own business which are at least initially looking to be quite successful. The interesting thing is that none of these people have a college education. Seems that they appreciate learning through doing which Frank is absolutely opposed to. Franks thinks that the bike he rides which looks like it came from 1920, should be designed by someone with a PhD.
>>>>>
>>>>> Well, his feelings must be really hurt by Felt being rated one of the best American bikes. Why, they don't have rack mounts!
>>>> But Tommy, Felt bikes are made in Asia... not the U.S.
>>>> https://bikexchange.com/bike-brands/felt-bicycles-review/
>>>
>>> Perhaps you can point to me where I ever said that their carbon fiber bikes were made in America? You simply cannot hold yourself back from making stupid comments where ever you think you have some sort of opening? Is it your belief that Felt is a Chinese owned company?
>>
>> No, you said "Felt being rated one of the best American bikes" and I
>> said that they were made in Asia. What is where a company is
>> incorporated have to do with it?
>>
>> Honda Motor Co., Inc. was established in Los Angeles, California in
>> 1959, so Honda is an "American company"?
>>
>
>You're right about Felt but these things can be
>counterintuitive. For several years the motor vehicle with
>the most USA content was a Toyota Camry.

Well, sort of. The Camry is manufactured in Japan, the United States,
Russia, Thailand, Malaysia, India, and Vietnam (:-)

>Today, nine of the top twenty are 'Japanese' brands made in
>US of A:
>https://www.cars.com/articles/2021-cars-com-american-made-index-which-cars-are-the-most-american-437020/
--

Cheers,

John B.

[sms]

On 12/2/2021 3:22 PM, AMuzi wrote:

<snip>

> You're right about Felt but these things can be counterintuitive. For
> several years the motor vehicle with the most USA content was a Toyota
> Camry.
>
> Today, nine of the top twenty are 'Japanese' brands made in US of A:
> https://www.cars.com/articles/2021-cars-com-american-made-index-which-cars-are-the-most-american-437020/

And a lot of "American brands" are made in Mexico. Personally, I don't
like how auto companies exports jobs to Mexico then import the vehicles
into the U.S.. Much better how the Japanese brands build factories in
the countries in which they are going to sell the vehicles.

[AMuzi]

Remove the excessive regulation and manufacturers will move
those factories and maquiladoras here in a heartbeat.

[sms]

Right-On!

Just let them dump toxic waste in U.S. rivers, instead of the Rio Grande
<http://digitalcollections.library.cmu.edu/awweb/awarchive?type=file&item=440941>.
Safe drinking water is way over-rated, just ask the former governor of
Michigan.

Then pay the U.S. auto workers $2.25 per hour instead of $21 per hour.

Easy solution to bring those assembly line jobs back to the U.S..

[AMuzi]

There's a continuum of incentives and disincentives. Else no
one would move them in the first place.

[Tom Kunich]

Leftists haven't the slightest idea of the impact of excess regulation on American working people. And really, they don't care.

[Tom Kunich]

Yeah, we've got you Scharf "The Magnificent" - Mexico doesn't allow the dumping of pollution. And of course reasonable regulations would be impossible to write. Why that might require someone that actually had some idea of the problem and not some dumbfuck like you who knows nothing about nothing but turns out to be the brother-in-law of some Congressman.

[John B.]

On Fri, 3 Dec 2021 05:59:44 -0800, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

At the time the Japanese companies started building car factories in
the U.S I believe that they did it to avoid the possibility of risking
new protectionist measures. At least that is what the New York Times
reported.
https://www.nytimes.com/1985/03/31/business/japan-s-made-in-america-cars.html

As for Mexico, I would guess that the cost of doing business and labor
are significantly lower there.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

True, but not all factors are positive. Property rights, the
civil courts, some quality of life facets are maybe not
positive depending on where in Mexico. (and for staff, even
minor criminal processes can be extremely dangerous)

Taking this back to bicycles, Schwinn built a facility in
Greenville MS which, by the numbers, ought to have solved a
lot of their problems. But competent engineering and
management staff were wan to relocate and hard to replace in
Greenville MS. Turned out to be a very large unexpected new
problem.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 3 Dec 2021 11:47:18 -0800, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

>Safe drinking water is way over-rated, just ask the former governor of
>Michigan.

Yep. For a clue of what the US might look like without clean water
regulations:

"3280 feet deep groundwater is contaminated in China/water and
cross-contamination is out of control"
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2cseicEu84>

If Mexico ever grows a manufacturing sector as big as China, expect it
to have the same problems as China.

[Tom Kunich]

On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 3:23:51 PM UTC-8, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Dec 2021 11:47:18 -0800, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
> wrote:
> >Safe drinking water is way over-rated, just ask the former governor of
> >Michigan.
> Yep. For a clue of what the US might look like without clean water
> regulations:
>
> "3280 feet deep groundwater is contaminated in China/water and
> cross-contamination is out of control"
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2cseicEu84>
>
> If Mexico ever grows a manufacturing sector as big as China, expect it
> to have the same problems as China.

I'm not at all surprised that you like to talk about things you don't know about. "Brown Water" is that which is the water leaving sewage treatment plants and is fit for drinking safely though no one wants to. Instead it is dumped into the oceans and evaporates into the air and falls out of the sky and considered the purest of the pure despite the fact that it is falling through polluted air.

[Jeff Liebermann]

The water contamination mentioned in the YouTube video did not come
from a sewage treatment plant. It came from raw agricultural, mining,
and industrial waste. Locally, we had a problem similar to China. A
local electronics plant decided that the proper way to dispose of some
nasty chemicals was to dump them into the sand behind the plant:
<https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/SiteProfiles/index.cfm?fuseaction=second.cleanup&id=0902226>
We even made the list of EPA Superfund sites:
<https://cumulis.epa.gov/supercpad/cursites/csitinfo.cfm?id=0902226>
Want that in your backyard?

No reputable sewage treatment plant delivers brown water. That's the
job of the local municipality, which might have a problem with dirt,
rust, or sediment incursion in the pipes:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=brown+drinking+water>
It's a serious problem depending on what enters the pipes. The water
pressure inside the pipes keeps the dirt from leaking INTO the pipes.
Lose water pressure, and you end up with dirt in the tap water. We
had the problem locally (SLVWD) when the Sept 2020 CZU Fire melted the
HDPE plastic water distribution pipes. Several areas were told to "Do
no drink, do not boil" the water because without testing, nobody
really knew what was in the water pipes. The big worry was benzene
from the melted plastic pipes.

[Tom Kunich]

Where did I say it did?

[John B.]

As an example of doing business in foreign countries, the company I
worked for had 1 "Personnel Person", with 1 secretary, to handle the
Immigration formalities of about 120 Expatriates and one more, with
secretary to handle all the other personnel affairs. Well over a
thousand individuals during one period.

I have no idea what it would require for a company of our size would
require in the U.S. but I've been told by others who had experience,
in the oil business, in the U.S., that our staff was "ridiculously
small".
--
Cheers,

John B.

[sms]

On 12/3/2021 12:08 PM, AMuzi wrote:

<snip>

> There's a continuum of incentives and disincentives. Else no one would
> move them in the first place.

The incentives were a) 1/10th the labor cost, and b) the ability to
pollute without any consequences.

[John B.]

On Fri, 03 Dec 2021 15:23:42 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 3 Dec 2021 11:47:18 -0800, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Safe drinking water is way over-rated, just ask the former governor of
>>Michigan.
>
>Yep. For a clue of what the US might look like without clean water
>regulations:
>
>"3280 feet deep groundwater is contaminated in China/water and
>cross-contamination is out of control"
><https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2cseicEu84>
>
>If Mexico ever grows a manufacturing sector as big as China, expect it
>to have the same problems as China.

Yup, China says that "poor or extremely poor quality increases to
59.6%, Chinese government say", but cheer up the U.S. catching up as
quickly as they can. I read that some 20% of water samples tested
contained one or more contaminates.
https://www.usgs.gov/news/quality-nation%E2%80%99s-groundwater
--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

You made that up just now. Do you have any direct experience
with manufacturing facilities in Mexico?

Labor is less expensive and dropping besides increased
productivity:
https://insights.tetakawi.com/what-is-the-labor-cost-of-manufacturing-in-mexico


Environmental regulation is similar to USA (not identical)
but not a free for all either.

https://insights.tetakawi.com/mexican-environmental-laws-unenforced-turmoil-or-evolving-success

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 3 Dec 2021 16:25:01 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich

Did what? Try hard to be specific. You wrote:
""Brown Water" is that which is the water leaving sewage
treatment plants and is fit for drinking safely though
no one wants to."

Is that what you're complaining about?

"EPA Effluent Guidelines"
<https://www.epa.gov/eg>

"EPA National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System (NPDES)"
<https://www.epa.gov/npdes>
See Municipal wastewater and Industrial wastewater.

"Primer for Municipal Wastewater Treatment Systems"
<https://www.epa.gov/sites/default/files/2015-09/documents/primer.pdf>

Maybe you would like to explain what your reply had to do with the
YouTube video of the ground water contamination problem in China,
which I suggested could become a problem in Mexico if its industry
grew to the size of China, or in the US in case the Republicans decide
to disassemble the various clean water laws and regulations.

[John B.]

On Fri, 03 Dec 2021 19:27:46 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>

Well, from what I read China has only one river catch fire so the U.S.
is still leading the pack, so to speak, with something like four, at
least one of which, the Cuyahoga, has burned several times, starting
in 1868 (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Tom Kunich]

Scharf continues to pretend that his imagination reflects reality. Tell us what pollution a copper mine presents?

[Tom Kunich]

Jeff, why do you continue to speak of things you don't understand or know the first thing about? Brown water is simply the effluent from sewage treatment plants after the bacterialogical breakdown of the sewage turns it into clean water and mud which is either released into the rivers etc. or carried to disposal sites and buried because the mud is extremely high in nitrogen and would burn plants if you tried to use it for fertilizer.

My brother worked in one of the plants and knew that a lot of brown water is used industrially as a cheap source of clean water.

But you can continue making a fool of yourself since you seem to enjoy it. Like John, all of your information comes from Googling things and taking whatever you wish to prove your point whether it is on subject or not.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 08:24:11 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Brown water is simply the effluent from sewage treatment plants after the bacterialogical breakdown of the sewage turns it into clean water and mud which is either released into the rivers etc. or carried to disposal sites and buried because the mud is extremely high in nitrogen and would burn plants if you tried to use it for fertilizer.

Thanks for the correction. Too bad looking up "brown water" with
Google results in a different definition:
<https://www.google.com/search?q="brown+water">

"Difference between blackwater and greywater"
<https://www.globalwatergroup.com.au/our-blog/difference-between-blackwater-and-greywater>
Blackwater: (...) It is also referred to as sewage
or brown water and can carry disease and bacteria,
both of which could be harmful.

>My brother worked in one of the plants and knew that a lot of brown water is used industrially as a cheap source of clean water.

Ask your brother again.

>...all of your information comes from Googling things and taking whatever you wish to prove your point whether it is on subject or not.

Partly true. I know very little about municipal water treatment. If
I don't know the answer, I look it up, usually with Google search.
However, if you don't have an answer, you guess, fabricate numbers,
contrive explanations, fail to substantiate your "facts", rarely
provide examples, and fail to provide sources and URL's that readers
can check to verify your information. That reminds me, did you ever
find your source for the reduction in abortions during the Trump
regime?
"I looked it up and there was a 54% reduction in abortions
in the under 18 year old group during the Trump Presidency."
If you "looked it up", you should be able to find it again.

[ 15 minutes wasted ]

[AMuzi]

An actual mining engineer worked for us for a couple of
years so I know a little about this. The primary crushing of
copper bearing rock is dramatically loud (and often 24 hours
too).

Although there are various processes the most common uses a
solution of sulfuric acid in the copper bearing slurry which
is plated into copper sheet. Scale that up and you have a
potential pollution problem.

Maybe not as toxic as cyanide reprocessing of gold mine
tailings but the scale is immense.

[John B.]

Try
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-indonesia-freeport-environment-idUSKBN1KF1I9
"A 2017 report by Indonesia’s Supreme Audit Agency (BPK) calculated
that Freeport’s decades-long operations at the mine in Indonesia’s
remote easternmost province of Papua had caused environmental damage
worth $13.25 billion."
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Sun, 5 Dec 2021 08:24:11 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich

Well Tommy, I suggest that looking something up is a far better thing
then just spouting lies and imaginary "facts" as you do.

I haven't bothered to actually keep count but from memory your posts
are in the vicinity of 99% Bull Shit.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Tom Kunich]

Copper mines are not in city centers where noise pollution is a problem. And distance rapidly lessens the noise level. It is a great deal less of a problem than you might think and you don't need sulfuric acid. I believe the major processes use simply water. Half of the world's copper comes from Arizona. I'm sure that Scharf sees Arizona as a cesspool of pollution. The separation of copper also yields Silicon and Iron.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 6 Dec 2021 10:36:42 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Half of the world's copper comes from Arizona.

Wrong (as usual):
<https://www.statista.com/statistics/264626/copper-production-by-country/>
<https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/news/top-five-copper-mining-countries/>
<https://investingnews.com/daily/resource-investing/base-metals-investing/copper-investing/copper-production-country/>
etc.
1. Chile
2. Peru
3. China
4. Democratic Republic of Congo
5. USA

For the US, Arizona produces the most copper.

Have you found your source of information where you declared that
abortions for under 18 year old women were dramatically reduced under
the Trump administration?

[John B.]

On Mon, 6 Dec 2021 10:36:42 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Strange isn't it that if as you tell us, "Half of the world's copper
comes from Arizona" that the ten largest copper mines in the world ARE
NOT in the U.S.

And the Wikki has it that Chile produces some 5,700.000 tons annually
while the U.S. produces only 1,200,000.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Mon, 06 Dec 2021 10:59:52 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 6 Dec 2021 10:36:42 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
><cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Half of the world's copper comes from Arizona.
>
>Wrong (as usual):
><https://www.statista.com/statistics/264626/copper-production-by-country/>
><https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/news/top-five-copper-mining-countries/>
><https://investingnews.com/daily/resource-investing/base-metals-investing/copper-investing/copper-production-country/>
>etc.
>1. Chile
>2. Peru
>3. China
>4. Democratic Republic of Congo
>5. USA
>
>For the US, Arizona produces the most copper.
>
>Have you found your source of information where you declared that
>abortions for under 18 year old women were dramatically reduced under
>the Trump administration?

Come now Jeff, Tommy don't need no stinking sources. Why he just waves
his arms the answers pop out of his mouth like squeezing a grape.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Tom Kunich]

On Sunday, December 5, 2021 at 9:38:40 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:

Trying to find the source of where it showed Arizona as the large single producer of copper, I discovered that Sulfuric acid is a byproduct of copper production. I was under the impression that you meant that it was used to purify the copper, the rocks containing copper are ground into a fine powder and they bubble air through it and the copper attaches to the O2 as copper oxide. This gives a finished ore of about 65% copper which is purified more by smelting. Somewhere the sulfides that always are part of the copper ore is used to manufacture sulfuric acid which must be used for industrial purposes.

[Tom Kunich]

On Monday, December 6, 2021 at 11:00:11 AM UTC-8, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Dec 2021 10:36:42 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Half of the world's copper comes from Arizona.
> Wrong (as usual):
> <https://www.statista.com/statistics/264626/copper-production-by-country/>
> <https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/news/top-five-copper-mining-countries/>
> <https://investingnews.com/daily/resource-investing/base-metals-investing/copper-investing/copper-production-country/>
> etc.
> 1. Chile
> 2. Peru
> 3. China
> 4. Democratic Republic of Congo
> 5. USA
>
> For the US, Arizona produces the most copper.
>
> Have you found your source of information where you declared that
> abortions for under 18 year old women were dramatically reduced under
> the Trump administration?

Chile and Peru combined do not mine as much copper as Arizona. I don't know what China does but I have never seen them mentioned as a producer.

I know that you like being a shit eating dog but all you had to do was look things up on the CDC https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/21/health/abortion-surveillance-cdc-2015-bn/index.html

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

A quick web search of copper mine pollution returns ~10M hits in .56 seconds. Here are the top two:

https://www.epa.gov/radiation/tenorm-copper-mining-and-production-wastes
"Copper mining wastes make up the largest percentage of metal mining and processing wastes generated in the United States. In-situ leaching can transport uranium and thorium into groundwater or surface water at the processing site. High levels of Technologically Enhanced Naturally Occurring Radioactive Materials have been found in the PLS of two in-situ leach operations in Arizona."

https://earthworks.org/issues/copper_sulfide_mining/
"The Bingham Canyon Mine, the largest open pit mine in the United States, will also generate water pollution in perpetuity from the mine’s waste rock piles. Mine operations have resulted in a plume of contaminated groundwater extending over 70 square miles, and the State of Utah filed a natural resource damage claim against the mine in 2008 for impacts to water and wildlife resources."

yeah yeah tommy, we know, you'll project your homoerotic fantasies about me and claim that nothing I say can be trusted because you keep hoping I'm gay. Tell ya what, If you're so convinced that pollution from copper mining is non-existent, prove us all wrong by taking a swim in the pool at the bottom of an open pit mine. We'll wait.....

[jbeattie]

FYI, bike content -- Butterfield Canyon goes up to the massive crater that is the Bingham Canyon copper mine, and it is a hell of a climb. Not that steep, but narrow, gravelly and blind turns -- and trucks. Coming down, I thought I was going to go off a cliff. https://tinyurl.com/ https://gatetoadventures.com/road-trip-to-bingham-canyon-mine-overlook/


-- Jay Beattie.

[jbeattie]

Hmmm. My link was munged: https://tinyurl.com/2bmzmdj3

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 6 Dec 2021 16:15:40 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich

<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Monday, December 6, 2021 at 11:00:11 AM UTC-8, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Mon, 6 Dec 2021 10:36:42 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Half of the world's copper comes from Arizona.
>> Wrong (as usual):
>> <https://www.statista.com/statistics/264626/copper-production-by-country/>
>> <https://www.nsenergybusiness.com/news/top-five-copper-mining-countries/>
>> <https://investingnews.com/daily/resource-investing/base-metals-investing/copper-investing/copper-production-country/>
>> etc.
>> 1. Chile
>> 2. Peru
>> 3. China
>> 4. Democratic Republic of Congo
>> 5. USA
>>
>> For the US, Arizona produces the most copper.
>>
>> Have you found your source of information where you declared that
>> abortions for under 18 year old women were dramatically reduced under
>> the Trump administration?

>Chile and Peru combined do not mine as much copper as Arizona. I don't know what China does but I have never seen them mentioned as a producer.

Permit me to introduce you to Google search. For copper production in
China, try:
<https://lmgtfy.app/?q=china+copper+production>
Any of the top hits should give you a clue that China is in the copper
production and exporting business.

>I know that you like being a shit eating dog but all you had to do was look things up on the CDC https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/21/health/abortion-surveillance-cdc-2015-bn/index.html

Finally. Unfortunately, you didn't read the CNN article:
The number of abortions among women 15-44 went
down 26%, from 15.9 to 11.8 abortions per 1,000
women. And the number of abortions per 1,000
live births went down by 19%, from 233 to 188.

The original source was this CDC report based on 2015 data, which was
released prior to Trump being elected in 2016:
"Abortion Surveillance - United States, 2015"
<https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/ss/ss6713a1.htm>

That seems to be considerably smaller than the 54% that you claim to
have found:
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/uwygKlOACjQ/m/JJI8TfctBAAJ>

"I looked it up and there was a 54% reduction in
abortions in the under 18 year old group during
the Trump Presidency."

There was no mention of an "under 18 year old group" in the CNN
article. The CNN article was dated Nov 21, 2018, which at best would
only include the first 2 years of the Trump presidency. However,
reading the origina abstract, it's really from the 2015 data. Nice
try, but the CNN article wasn't the source that you allegedly "looked
up".

Conclusion: You lied and tried to cover it up.

[ 25 minutes wasted ]

[John B.]

On Mon, 06 Dec 2021 18:46:14 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>

Yawn, and what's new?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

Pretty typical, A couple of years ago he made a claim that illegal aliens had raped ten women in massachusetts over the previous seven weeks. When challenged, he linked 4 websites, all over a year old, that listed three incidents, one of which was a cased that was subsequently dismissed because the alleged victim lied about the event.
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/cHtaaGGPBQQ/m/Qh0A1QnTAgAJ

That was the same thread where he claimed that Bank of America failed during the recession and was now wholly owned by the chinese.
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/cHtaaGGPBQQ/m/2YH-gyTRAgAJ

His response to both messages proving him wrong was that I don't know how to read.

After 20+ years on RBT, Tom is still under some delusion that people will simply believe anything he writes because he writes it.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

That sounds like it would be a blast to ride down.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 12/7/2021 6:13 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> After 20+ years on RBT, Tom is still under some delusion that people will simply believe anything he writes because he writes it.

Which, sadly, is exactly opposite of the truth. If he posts some fact, I
now assume it's wrong until proven otherwise.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Tom Kunich]

On Monday, December 6, 2021 at 5:33:59 PM UTC-8, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:

OK, now does everyone have this? Uranium and Thorium, both radioactive in their pure forms, are supposedly in enough abundant enough to pollute ground water. With WHAT? These are two of the heaviest elements that are not water soluble. 1. If they were in ANY measurable quantity they would be of commercial value and 2. If they are not of commercial value they are too heavy to pollute anything since they simply plunk down in place. Pollution from copper mines is from older purification methods that left sulfur compounds behind. Heavy metals are often all found in the same areas so you can find copper, iron and even gold in the same ore.

[Tom Kunich]

On Monday, December 6, 2021 at 6:08:53 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:

Weren't you afraid that Flunkmaster was correct and that you'd be killed by pollution?

[Tom Kunich]

I cycle on several roads up in the hills on which there are clear signs that say "NO TRUCKS" because they cannot make the turns. But I have seen large double semi's on there and watched them have to back and start and back and start finally getting around a turn and scrubbing the bark off of the Coastal Redwoods.

[sms]

On 12/6/2021 6:46 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

<snip>

> Conclusion: You lied and tried to cover it up.

Duh.

The sad thing is that he knows that it is all lies but his ego is so
huge that he cant bring himself to admit it.

[jbeattie]

No, I said I thought I was going to go off a cliff -- blind turns, no guard rails and a single-lane road with trucks, and a sketchy road surface -- at least near the top. https://tinyurl.com/yr4hmxx5 And looking down into a planet-sized crater, yes, one does wonder about pollution. https://tinyurl.com/yr4hmxx5

-- Jay Beattie.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

You tell us, sparky:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/toxic-montana-lakes-kills-hundreds-and-maybe-thousands-snow-geese-180961356/

The Berkeley Pit mined copper in the upper and central part of the Butte between 1955 and 1982, and is now filled with acidic and metal-rich water. "The Superfund site is death trap for the birds, a 900-foot-deep, highly acidic former open pit copper mine contaminated with heavy metals like cadmium, arsenic and cobalt."

Go ahead, take a dip there and prove us all wrong.

[Tom Kunich]

Tell us Flunkmaster, how are you posting this commandment against copper and silicon? I can weight for you to quote something about slavery in the Caribbean in 1750.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

it's called researching a topic rather than pulling bullshit out of my ass.

> this commandment against copper and silicon?

nothing I've written could be construed as a commandment. merely a response to you asking "Tell us what pollution a copper mine presents"

>I can weight for you to quote something about slavery in the Caribbean in 1750.

Good, go ahead and weight.

[Tom Kunich]

Plainly you don't understand that. To someone absolutely ignorant about science and engineering it doesn't even pass through your head that industry progresses from one advancement to another. That you CANNOT leave out any intermediate steps because they are what leads to the others. You think that this was pollution when it was the cleanest form of getting the materials at the time. That the science of chemistry was no better than that. I was born in the mid-40's before the wars were won. I have seen science progress at the speed of light because of those wars. But at the same time I saw England with entire swaths laying in ruins that took more than 30 years to rebuild. Advancement on one front generally means that a lot of effort is put there which means that a lot of effort is denied other areas of human endeavor. Intelligence to accomplish things are not spread equally among Homo Sapiens and there will ALWAYS be inequality. There will be people crying that they don't have enough simply because they cannot accomplish enough. That is the plight of ALL animals. If a fox is too stupid to catch a rabbit, he starves or learns how to catch a rabbit. All of the charity in the universe cannot change reality.

Homo Erectus no matter WHAT some dopey archeologist has to say about it, didn't have the intellectual ability to understand fire. How to start it and probably not how to maintain a fire that had been lit by some natural means. THERE ARE DAMN FEW PEOPLE on a planet of 3 trillion Homo Sapiens that can start a fire from scratch.

But YOU can find some stupid opinion piece that claims that there is pollution at a copper mine operated before the war. That a flock of geese (HELL MAYBE MILLIONS OF GEESE that never actually existed) were killed by pollution. Grow the fuck up.

[John B.]

I'm beginning that Tommy believes what he writes in many, maybe most,
cases.

Somebody wrote, years ago, "he only believes what he wants to be true"
which obviously applies to Tom's ranting's and ravings..

--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

I believe that I have mentioned the "Freeport Copper Mine" in
Indonesia which at one time was the richest copper mine, on a ton
basis, in the world. They are now being accused of pollution from the
chemicals leaching out of untold millions of tons of crushed rock from
the mining operation. Not from the actual copper refining.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

You're right, I don't understand what a "commandment against copper and silicon" is or how you "can weight".

> To someone absolutely ignorant about science and engineering it doesn't even pass through your
> head that industry progresses from one advancement to another. That you CANNOT leave out any
> intermediate steps because they are what leads to the others. You think that this was pollution
> when it was the cleanest form of getting the materials at the time. That the science of chemistry
> was no better than that.

It's a good thing I'm not ignorant about science or chemistry then, but then again I _am_ discussing such things with someone who thinks aluminum oxide is flammable, so I guess ignorance depends on your perspective.

> I was born in the mid-40's before the wars were won. I have seen science progress at the speed of
> light because of those wars. But at the same time I saw England with entire swaths laying in ruins
> that took more than 30 years to rebuild. Advancement on one front generally means that a lot of
> effort is put there which means that a lot of effort is denied other areas of human endeavor.
> Intelligence to accomplish things are not spread equally among Homo Sapiens and there will
> ALWAYS be inequality. There will be people crying that they don't have enough simply because
> they cannot accomplish enough. That is the plight of ALL animals. If a fox is too stupid to catch
> a rabbit, he starves or learns how to catch a rabbit. All of the charity in the universe cannot change reality.
>
> Homo Erectus no matter WHAT some dopey archeologist has to say about it, didn't have the intellectual
> ability to understand fire. How to start it and probably not how to maintain a fire that had been lit by some
> natural means. THERE ARE DAMN FEW PEOPLE on a planet of 3 trillion Homo Sapiens that can start a fire from scratch.

Feeble and mindless rant attempting to distract duly noted

> But YOU can find some stupid opinion piece that claims that there is pollution at a copper mine operated before the war.
>That a flock of geese (HELL MAYBE MILLIONS OF GEESE that never actually existed) were killed by pollution. Grow the fuck up.

"You're entitled to your own opinion, you're not entitled to your own facts" - Daniel Patrick Moynihan
lol...no, sparky, it wasn't an opinion piece. It was a factual event, widely reported, and even more widely studied. Besides that, the mine was in operation from 1955 and 1982. So unless you're talking about the war in afghanistan, you're wrong about that too.

Here are a couple of white papers researching the chemistry and the environmental impacts of the lake, but just do a google search on "berkely pit mine" :

https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1742-6596/1384/1/012025
"Quality levels till 2012 are:
- up to 122 meters: pH=2,57, C(Fe)=0,5g/l, C(Cu)=0,07g/l;
- lower than 122 meters: pH=2,37, C(Fe)=0,9g/l, C(Cu)=0,14g/l."

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiK-bzm5NL0AhUHmeAKHXwZClkQFnoECBIQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fsemspub.epa.gov%2Fwork%2F08%2F100008093.pdf&usg=AOvVaw0tCS1F1w11XVtHWMrZ0vFR
"A review of aerial photographs collected by drone and manned aircraft flights, including the cumulative number of dead birds collected prior to the imagery flights show that more than 2,900 waterfowl did not
respond to the hazing, remained in the Pit, and ultimately died as detailed in the Berkeley Mine Pit Snow Goose Assessment (USFWS, 2016) and Berkeley Pit – November 28, 2016 Event, Waterfowl Count Technical memo (Arcadis, 2017b)."

Here's a few more links:

https://phys.org/news/2016-12-thousands-geese-die-toxic.html

https://www.greatfallstribune.com/story/news/2017/11/24/fine-death-3-000-snow-geese-buttes-berkeley-pit-still-limbo/893706001/
"Nearly a year after at least 3,000 snow geese died in the toxic waters of a former open pit copper mine, the Environmental Protection Agency says it hasn't decided yet whether to fine the companies responsible for the site."

https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/12/berkeley-pit-geese/510089/
"In late November, a flock of migrating snow geese landed in a lake in Butte, Montana. Soon, they began to die. Because what they landed in was the Berkeley Pit, a Superfund site filled with acidic and metal-laden toxic waste from copper mining. The lake was “white with birds;” thousands died. Weeks later, as the story has gone viral, officials are still counting."

https://www.businessinsider.com/montana-birds-berkeley-pit-mining-snow-geese-2021-12
"A former copper mine in Montana has been flooding with toxic groundwater since the 1980s.
The water is so toxic that any birds that land on the lake get cooked from the inside out."

https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-montana-toxic-geese-20161207-story.html
"One of the chief concerns is that the pit water level will eventually reach the level of the natural water table. The former mine could then pollute nearby Silver Bow Creek and the headwaters of the Clark Fork River. Projections show that could happen by about 2020."

Thanks for the good laugh sparky. This forum will miss your lunacy when you're gone.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

Not exactly an isolated problem....

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17279451/
"Toxic mine drainage from Asia's biggest copper mine at Malanjkhand, India"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5579155/
"The chemistry and toxicity of discharge waters from copper mine tailing impoundment in the valley of the Apuseni Mountains in Romania"

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/10/3/copper-mine-threatens-jordans-largest-nature-reserve
"Copper mine threatens Jordan’s largest nature reserve"

[John B.]

On Tue, 7 Dec 2021 13:43:47 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich

Tommy, I believe that you post (above) demonstrates the fact that you
just don't have the mental facility to post here. Someone writes about
pollution from copper mines and you go on about homo erectus.

Really, you should take this up with your doctor as modern medicine
has developed some really great treatments for those of deteriorating
mental capacity.

--
Cheers,

John B.

[Tom Kunich]

On Tuesday, December 7, 2021 at 3:23:35 PM UTC-8, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> Thanks for the good laugh sparky. This forum will miss your lunacy when you're gone.

Well, you'll be dead and gone long before I will be. In the last 4 days I've done 3 rides for a total of 130 miles. You don't even ride a bike and haunt this site to call names as would be expected from your use of a pseudonym. Time for you to get another Booster.

[Tom Kunich]

And you demonstrate yet again that you haven't any idea what I just wrote since none of this means anything.

[jbeattie]

What planet is that? There are 7.9 billion humans on Earth (estimated 2021). You must be thinking of Uranus.

-- Jay Beattie.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

On Tuesday, December 7, 2021 at 8:24:00 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 7, 2021 at 3:23:35 PM UTC-8, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for the good laugh sparky. This forum will miss your lunacy when you're gone.
> Well, you'll be dead and gone long before I will be.

Even Texas knows you're wrong. From https://dshs.texas.gov/immunize/covid19/data/vaccination-status.aspx:
"Unvaccinated people aged 75 years and older were 12 times more likely to die than their vaccinated counterparts."

If I die before you, it will be from drafting a truck (I hit 42 and sustained ~40 for over a mile behind a box truck here: https://www.strava.com/activities/2411484946/analysis)

> In the last 4 days I've done 3 rides for a total of 130 miles. You don't even ride a bike

Ah the joys of retirement. If I weren't still gainfully employed and living in new england I'd be doing at least that. During the warmer months I typically get 100-150 miles per week depending on my training schedule - while working full time. This time of year I'm only getting ~3 hours outside, another two or so inside.

> and haunt this site to call names as would be expected from your use of a pseudonym.

lol...thanks for another laugh. Out of 68 posts in this thread (as of this posting) 19 of them are yours and you reduced yourself to name-calling 4 times at 3 different people.
- some dumbfuck like you (at Scharf)
- continue making a fool of yourself (at Jeff)
- you like being a shit eating dog (at jeff)
- Flunkmaster (actually used 3 times)

Then there were the following derisive comments (all in this thread):
- You simply cannot hold yourself back from making stupid comments
- really demonstrates the level of your intelligence for all to see and laugh at (btw - it wasn't jeff we were laughing at).
- I'm not at all surprised that you like to talk about things you don't know about
- Scharf continues to pretend that his imagination reflects reality
- why do you continue to speak of things you don't understand or know the first thing about?
- To someone absolutely ignorant about science and engineering it doesn't even pass through your head

I've called you sparky twice in this thread, and I have never called anyone but you and your ass-sucking sycophant names.... really don't think it's much of an issue in comparison.

> Time for you to get another Booster.

Yup, not available for me yet though. BTW Everyone I know (including all of my ~ 200 co-workers - company requirement) has been fully vaccinated. None of them have died (from anything, actually).

There is an abandoned open-pit mine in montana with a 900-foot-deep lake that I hear doesn't freeze over in the winter, why don't you prove how tough you are and go for a swim? According to you, it's perfectly safe.

[Frank Krygowski]

Or thinking _with_? :-)



--
- Frank Krygowski

[Tom Kunich]

Frank, must you always show a total disregard for facts? Buddy up with Flunkmaster who believes that science isn't a progressive object and tells us that pollution caused 100 years ago wasn't absolutely a part of the progress of energy development of the 21st century. As your statement about programming showed, your understanding of science doesn't even reach the 10th grade level.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

100 years ago? At least our reading comprehension is past the 10th grade level. I've already given you half a dozen references which list the operations at the berkelely pit between 1955 and 1982. Here's another:

https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/images/7108/berkeley-pit-butte-montana

" In 1955, copper mining in the area expanded with the opening of the Berkeley Pit. The mine took advantage of the existing subterranean drainage and pump network to lower groundwater until 1982, when a new owner suspended operations."

And yes, that's the same pit where ~3000 geese died in 2016. "The Berkeley Pit receives groundwater flowing through the surrounding bedrock and acts as a “terminal pit” or sink for these heavy-metal-laden waters, which can be as strong as battery acid."

+1 to Frank and Jay, for noting you're thinking _and_ talking out of uranus.

[Tom Kunich]

Why do you write about things you have no understanding of. WHAT in the hell do you think Terminal Pit means you moron?

[John B.]

Tommy, I really believe you need to see your doctor as it is becoming
obvious that your medication just isn't doing the job as you can no
longer read what is written and understand it. To illustrate,

You write "a planet of 3 trillion"

Frank replies, "There are (only) 7.9 billion humans on Earth"

and you reply, "pollution caused 100 years ago wasn't absolutely a
part of the progress..."

( a trillion is 1 million million while a billion is only 1 thousand
million)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

Which has exactly _what_ to to with the fact that you keep claiming I referred to a mining operation over 100 years old that was in operation from 1955 to 1982? Another of tom's feeble attempts at deflection duly noted.
Besides that, please point out where I wrote anything that even remotely resembles your claim that I reject the idea that science and technology are progressive.

Seriously, your flailing here is absolutely pathetic and pitiful.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

Not to mention the fact that he called an operation that functioned from 1955 to 1982 "over 100 years old", and still maintains that claim.


>

[Tom Kunich]

So you don't know what a terminal pit is and believe that you can avoid the question because my comment rounded 70 years off to 100? You are really pitiful.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

The definition of a terminal pit is irrelevant to the conversation, you nattering idiot (thanks jay). And there's no way you're going to convince me you ever saw the term "terminal pit" before you read it in my link*.

You're the one who made the claim "I have seen science progress at the speed of light", so yes, there's a huge difference in the mining techniques between 1921 to 1955, not to mention the progress from 1955 to 1982 unless of course _now_ you're going to claim there _isn't_ much difference in the mining techniques from 100 years ago to 1982. Go ahead, sparky, we all need a good laugh, go ahead and try to square up how one side of your ass is saying you can't compare the techniques from 100 years ago, but the other side is saying it's OK to ignore 40 to 70 years worth of progress. Gawd you are insufferably stupid.

*If you _had_ heard of a 'terminal mine' before you read my link, and it _was_ relevant to the conversation, you would have brought it up before I posted it because that's exactly the kind of arrogant little pissant you are. Grow the fuck up.

Try this against your "3 trillion" you fucking idiot. https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/

[Tom Kunich]

In other words, you have no idea what the hell you're talking about and so think that you have to change the subject. Your ignorance is exceeded only by your stupidity.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

the irony....

[John B.]

On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 07:35:48 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich

Rounding off??? 70 to 100??? Do you run about telling everyone that
you are 100 years old, given that you were born in 1944? And more to
the point, do they believe you?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 09:53:56 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich

" think that you have to change the subject"??? And this condemnation
comes from the champion of all subject changers (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

And he still hasn't square up how one side of his ass says you can't compare the techniques from 100 years ago, but the other side says it's OK to ignore 40 to 70 years worth of progress.

[Tom Kunich]

Isn't it odd that you can't make any sense at all and yet you post as if something your wrote had some sort of value to the group?

[slto...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, December 2, 2021 at 3:22:58 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/2/2021 4:30 PM, John B. wrote:
> > On Thu, 2 Dec 2021 08:21:12 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Wednesday, December 1, 2021 at 2:28:46 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
> >>> On Wed, 1 Dec 2021 08:33:31 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> >>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> They said that people are quitting corporate jobs by the thousands and starting their own business which are at least initially looking to be quite successful. The interesting thing is that none of these people have a college education. Seems that they appreciate learning through doing which Frank is absolutely opposed to. Franks thinks that the bike he rides which looks like it came from 1920, should be designed by someone with a PhD.
> >>>>
> >>>> Well, his feelings must be really hurt by Felt being rated one of the best American bikes. Why, they don't have rack mounts!
> >>> But Tommy, Felt bikes are made in Asia... not the U.S.
> >>> https://bikexchange.com/bike-brands/felt-bicycles-review/
> >>
> >> Perhaps you can point to me where I ever said that their carbon fiber bikes were made in America? You simply cannot hold yourself back from making stupid comments where ever you think you have some sort of opening? Is it your belief that Felt is a Chinese owned company?
> >
> > No, you said "Felt being rated one of the best American bikes" and I
> > said that they were made in Asia. What is where a company is
> > incorporated have to do with it?
> >
> > Honda Motor Co., Inc. was established in Los Angeles, California in
> > 1959, so Honda is an "American company"?
> >
> You're right about Felt but these things can be
> counterintuitive. For several years the motor vehicle with
> the most USA content was a Toyota Camry.
>
> Today, nine of the top twenty are 'Japanese' brands made in
> US of A:
> https://www.cars.com/articles/2021-cars-com-american-made-index-which-cars-are-the-most-american-437020/

These are STILL Japanese companies that had their start in the Democratized Japan after WW II. Of course we could always listen to that moron John who is convinced that Honda started out as a car company rather than a motorcycle company in Japan. He cannot hold back from showing the world what a fool he is.

[slto...@gmail.com]

On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 5:59:50 AM UTC-8, sms wrote:
> On 12/2/2021 3:22 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> <snip>

> > You're right about Felt but these things can be counterintuitive. For
> > several years the motor vehicle with the most USA content was a Toyota
> > Camry.
> >
> > Today, nine of the top twenty are 'Japanese' brands made in US of A:
> > https://www.cars.com/articles/2021-cars-com-american-made-index-which-cars-are-the-most-american-437020/

> And a lot of "American brands" are made in Mexico. Personally, I don't
> like how auto companies exports jobs to Mexico then import the vehicles
> into the U.S.. Much better how the Japanese brands build factories in
> the countries in which they are going to sell the vehicles.
"YOU" don't like, But then you're 100% for charging them crippling taxes and wages that forces these companies to move elsewhere. The ignorance of politicians knows no bounds.

[slto...@gmail.com]

On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 12:08:24 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/3/2021 1:47 PM, sms wrote:
> > On 12/3/2021 11:10 AM, AMuzi wrote:

> >> On 12/3/2021 7:59 AM, sms wrote:
> >>> On 12/2/2021 3:22 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>>
> >>> <snip>
> >>>
> >>>> You're right about Felt but these things can be
> >>>> counterintuitive. For several years the motor vehicle with
> >>>> the most USA content was a Toyota Camry.
> >>>>
> >>>> Today, nine of the top twenty are 'Japanese' brands made
> >>>> in US of A:
> >>>> https://www.cars.com/articles/2021-cars-com-american-made-index-which-cars-are-the-most-american-437020/
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> And a lot of "American brands" are made in Mexico.
> >>> Personally, I don't like how auto companies exports jobs to
> >>> Mexico then import the vehicles into the U.S.. Much better
> >>> how the Japanese brands build factories in the countries in
> >>> which they are going to sell the vehicles.
> >>

> >> Remove the excessive regulation and manufacturers will
> >> move those factories and maquiladoras here in a heartbeat.
> >
> > Right-On!
> >
> > Just let them dump toxic waste in U.S. rivers, instead of
> > the Rio Grande
> > <http://digitalcollections.library.cmu.edu/awweb/awarchive?type=file&item=440941>.
> > Safe drinking water is way over-rated, just ask the former
> > governor of Michigan.
> >
> > Then pay the U.S. auto workers $2.25 per hour instead of $21
> > per hour.
> >
> > Easy solution to bring those assembly line jobs back to the
> > U.S..

> There's a continuum of incentives and disincentives. Else no
> one would move them in the first place.

California and Michigan virtually pushed the car companies out of their states. And then the Federal government did the rest.

[slto...@gmail.com]

On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 5:22:25 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:

> On 12/3/2021 6:56 PM, sms wrote:
> > On 12/3/2021 12:08 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >
> > <snip>
> >

> >> There's a continuum of incentives and disincentives. Else
> >> no one would move them in the first place.
> >

> > The incentives were a) 1/10th the labor cost, and b) the
> > ability to pollute without any consequences.
> >

> You made that up just now. Do you have any direct experience
> with manufacturing facilities in Mexico?
>
> Labor is less expensive and dropping besides increased
> productivity:
> https://insights.tetakawi.com/what-is-the-labor-cost-of-manufacturing-in-mexico
>
>
> Environmental regulation is similar to USA (not identical)
> but not a free for all either.
>
> https://insights.tetakawi.com/mexican-environmental-laws-unenforced-turmoil-or-evolving-success

The hardest working manual laborers in the state of California are now the Hispanics. Companies won't even consider hiring Americans usually since they will NOT work. I was usually in high demand because I was easily the hardest working person on the staff.

[slto...@gmail.com]

On Sunday, December 5, 2021 at 9:38:40 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/5/2021 10:17 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:

> > On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 4:56:58 PM UTC-8, sms wrote:
> >> On 12/3/2021 12:08 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >>
> >> <snip>
> >>> There's a continuum of incentives and disincentives. Else no one would
> >>> move them in the first place.
> >> The incentives were a) 1/10th the labor cost, and b) the ability to
> >> pollute without any consequences.

> > Scharf continues to pretend that his imagination reflects reality. Tell us what pollution a copper mine presents?
> >

> An actual mining engineer worked for us for a couple of
> years so I know a little about this. The primary crushing of
> copper bearing rock is dramatically loud (and often 24 hours
> too).
>
> Although there are various processes the most common uses a
> solution of sulfuric acid in the copper bearing slurry which
> is plated into copper sheet. Scale that up and you have a
> potential pollution problem.
>
> Maybe not as toxic as cyanide reprocessing of gold mine
> tailings but the scale is immense.
My investigation of copper mining is that sulfuric acid is a byproduct of copper production and not actually used in the production. They grind the ORE into an extremely fine powder and put it in water and bubble AIR though it. This causes the O2 to capture the copper and CuO2 in a froth on top, which skimmed off as nearly pure copper which is then freed from the oxide with electrolysis.

As you can see with this process that Sulfuric acid (H2SO4) is generated as well. This CAN be either sold as the acid or used to purify pure sulfur.

[slto...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, December 7, 2021 at 8:11:49 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 12/7/2021 6:13 AM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > After 20+ years on RBT, Tom is still under some delusion that people will simply believe anything he writes because he writes it.
> Which, sadly, is exactly opposite of the truth. If he posts some fact, I
> now assume it's wrong until proven otherwise.
Frank, what is sad is how sick you are because your believed that education and not ability was the key to success. By all means run your mouth off. I accomplished more at one of the jobs I had than you did in your entire career.

[slto...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, December 7, 2021 at 8:58:04 AM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:

> On Tuesday, December 7, 2021 at 8:32:04 AM UTC-8, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, December 6, 2021 at 6:08:53 PM UTC-8, jbeattie wrote:
> > > On Monday, December 6, 2021 at 5:33:59 PM UTC-8, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:

> > > > On Sunday, December 5, 2021 at 11:17:09 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 4:56:58 PM UTC-8, sms wrote:
> > > > > > On 12/3/2021 12:08 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > <snip>
> > > > > > > There's a continuum of incentives and disincentives. Else no one would
> > > > > > > move them in the first place.
> > > > > > The incentives were a) 1/10th the labor cost, and b) the ability to
> > > > > > pollute without any consequences.
> > > > > Scharf continues to pretend that his imagination reflects reality. Tell us what pollution a copper mine presents?

> > > > A quick web search of copper mine pollution returns ~10M hits in .56 seconds. Here are the top two:
> > > >
> > > > https://www.epa.gov/radiation/tenorm-copper-mining-and-production-wastes
> > > > "Copper mining wastes make up the largest percentage of metal mining and processing wastes generated in the United States. In-situ leaching can transport uranium and thorium into groundwater or surface water at the processing site. High levels of Technologically Enhanced Naturally Occurring Radioactive Materials have been found in the PLS of two in-situ leach operations in Arizona."
> > > >
> > > > https://earthworks.org/issues/copper_sulfide_mining/
> > > > "The Bingham Canyon Mine, the largest open pit mine in the United States, will also generate water pollution in perpetuity from the mine’s waste rock piles. Mine operations have resulted in a plume of contaminated groundwater extending over 70 square miles, and the State of Utah filed a natural resource damage claim against the mine in 2008 for impacts to water and wildlife resources."
> > > >
> > > > yeah yeah tommy, we know, you'll project your homoerotic fantasies about me and claim that nothing I say can be trusted because you keep hoping I'm gay. Tell ya what, If you're so convinced that pollution from copper mining is non-existent, prove us all wrong by taking a swim in the pool at the bottom of an open pit mine. We'll wait.....
> > > FYI, bike content -- Butterfield Canyon goes up to the massive crater that is the Bingham Canyon copper mine, and it is a hell of a climb. Not that steep, but narrow, gravelly and blind turns -- and trucks. Coming down, I thought I was going to go off a cliff. https://tinyurl.com/ https://gatetoadventures.com/road-trip-to-bingham-canyon-mine-overlook/
> > Weren't you afraid that Flunkmaster was correct and that you'd be killed by pollution?

> No, I said I thought I was going to go off a cliff -- blind turns, no guard rails and a single-lane road with trucks, and a sketchy road surface -- at least near the top. https://tinyurl.com/yr4hmxx5 And looking down into a planet-sized crater, yes, one does wonder about pollution. https://tinyurl.com/yr4hmxx5

The problem isn't the road so much as not knowing what is coming around the next turn. The older I get the more that worries me. Too many people don't even wonder if there might be a car around the next turn in the wrong lane.

[AMuzi]

Thank you, I learned something. There are apparently
different processes for different copper-bearing ores (which
makes sense I just didn't know that).

Here's the chemistry:

https://chem.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Inorganic_Chemistry/Supplemental_Modules_and_Websites_(Inorganic_Chemistry)/Descriptive_Chemistry/Elements_Organized_by_Block/3_d-Block_Elements/1b_Properties_of_Transition_Metals/Metallurgy/The_Extraction_of_Copper

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[slto...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, December 7, 2021 at 3:27:31 PM UTC-8, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 7, 2021 at 6:10:25 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:

> > On Tue, 7 Dec 2021 08:30:06 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
> > <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > >On Monday, December 6, 2021 at 5:33:59 PM UTC-8, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:

> > >> On Sunday, December 5, 2021 at 11:17:09 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > >> > On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 4:56:58 PM UTC-8, sms wrote:
> > >> > > On 12/3/2021 12:08 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> > >> > >
> > >> > > <snip>
> > >> > > > There's a continuum of incentives and disincentives. Else no one would
> > >> > > > move them in the first place.
> > >> > > The incentives were a) 1/10th the labor cost, and b) the ability to
> > >> > > pollute without any consequences.
> > >> > Scharf continues to pretend that his imagination reflects reality. Tell us what pollution a copper mine presents?

> > >> A quick web search of copper mine pollution returns ~10M hits in .56 seconds. Here are the top two:
> > >>
> > >> https://www.epa.gov/radiation/tenorm-copper-mining-and-production-wastes
> > >> "Copper mining wastes make up the largest percentage of metal mining and processing wastes generated in the United States. In-situ leaching can transport uranium and thorium into groundwater or surface water at the processing site. High levels of Technologically Enhanced Naturally Occurring Radioactive Materials have been found in the PLS of two in-situ leach operations in Arizona."
> > >>
> > >> https://earthworks.org/issues/copper_sulfide_mining/
> > >> "The Bingham Canyon Mine, the largest open pit mine in the United States, will also generate water pollution in perpetuity from the mine’s waste rock piles. Mine operations have resulted in a plume of contaminated groundwater extending over 70 square miles, and the State of Utah filed a natural resource damage claim against the mine in 2008 for impacts to water and wildlife resources."
> > >>
> > >> yeah yeah tommy, we know, you'll project your homoerotic fantasies about me and claim that nothing I say can be trusted because you keep hoping I'm gay. Tell ya what, If you're so convinced that pollution from copper mining is non-existent, prove us all wrong by taking a swim in the pool at the bottom of an open pit mine. We'll wait.....
> > >

> > >OK, now does everyone have this? Uranium and Thorium, both radioactive in their pure forms, are supposedly in enough abundant enough to pollute ground water. With WHAT? These are two of the heaviest elements that are not water soluble. 1. If they were in ANY measurable quantity they would be of commercial value and 2. If they are not of commercial value they are too heavy to pollute anything since they simply plunk down in place. Pollution from copper mines is from older purification methods that left sulfur compounds behind. Heavy metals are often all found in the same areas so you can find copper, iron and even gold in the same ore.
> > I believe that I have mentioned the "Freeport Copper Mine" in
> > Indonesia which at one time was the richest copper mine, on a ton
> > basis, in the world. They are now being accused of pollution from the
> > chemicals leaching out of untold millions of tons of crushed rock from
> > the mining operation. Not from the actual copper refining.
> > --
> Not exactly an isolated problem....
>
> https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17279451/
> "Toxic mine drainage from Asia's biggest copper mine at Malanjkhand, India"
>
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5579155/
> "The chemistry and toxicity of discharge waters from copper mine tailing impoundment in the valley of the Apuseni Mountains in Romania"
>
> https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/10/3/copper-mine-threatens-jordans-largest-nature-reserve
> "Copper mine threatens Jordan’s largest nature reserve"
Dip shit strikes again - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_copper_production - tell me where Jordan is with the high production?

[slto...@gmail.com]

Tell me Frank, you don't understand exaggeration for effect? Does your mind only work to attempt to discover something to cry about like a little baby?

[John B.]

>These are STILL Japanese companies that had their start in the Democratized Japan after WW II.Of course we could always listen to that moron John who is convinced that Honda started out as a car company rather than a motorcycle company in Japan. He cannot hold back from showing the world what a fool he is.

Errr... I was living in Japan long before any USian even knew what a
Honda was. In fact a good friend owned a Honda Dream back when they
had a pressed steel frame and something like 3 screaming horsepower.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

No Tommy, sometimes copper is processed using acid. Here is an
explanation. With pictured even, to help you understand.

https://superfund.arizona.edu/resources/learning-modules-english/copper-mining-and-processing/processing-copper-ores
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

And silly old Tommy strikes again.

Tommy, the reference you are replying to talks about the plans to mine
Jordan's Largest Nature Reserve. NOT a copper mine.

I keep telling you, Adult Education classes might help you understand
what you read.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[sms]

On 12/11/2021 2:59 PM, John B. wrote:

<snip>

> I keep telling you, Adult Education classes might help you understand
> what you read.

That ship sailed a long time ago.

[Frank Krygowski]

Yet you changed jobs every couple years. I wonder: why they didn't keep you on?

- Frank Krygowski

[John B.]

On Sat, 11 Dec 2021 18:22:30 -0800, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

Well, Hope springs eternal
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Radey Shouman]

I have seen the bubble process Tom describes first hand, at the Santa
Rita copper mine in New Mexico. Picture a surrealistic bubble bath
commercial, only everything is grey. Smelled kind of like a visit to
the cooling tower, which is a relaxing sort of thing to do if you're not
responsible for it.

[slto...@gmail.com]

Shouldn't we ask our master chemist, Flunkmaster, why poor countries with open pit mines don't use lesser value byproducts and instead leave them behind in quantities to become pollutants?

Heavy metals tend to be found in the same areas and separating them depends on both the quantity and value of the metals in any given ore. What would you think a poor country would mine - copper or gold? Copper sulfate could be considered to be a pollutant, but

[Tom Kunich]

Because never having a real job in industry, you haven't even a passing idea of what the business was like. So why are you attempting to act like you know anything? As companies grew to the size where they could support a permanent R&D staff, I could stay until offered better money elsewhere. Maybe you think that I should stay at a job making $150,000/yr when offered $250,000 a year elsewhere. But then you're a teacher who probably never made over $60,000.

[Tom Kunich]

Metallurgy is a very basic chemistry. It is in the details where you define the profitability of the business.

[AMuzi]

As I understand the problem, it's not volition by the mine
management so much as the difference in the composition of
the ore(s).