Deburring eyelet less spoke holes
jay
mistakenly thought that it was a single eyeleted rim. Before starting
the actually lacing, I deburred the spoke holes on the inner tube side
as I always do w/ a single eyeleted rim. Then I noticed considerable
burrs around the nipple holes. I tried using a hand held cutting /
scraping type deburring tool w/ two different cutting devices. They
probably got 50% of the burrs. Then I tried my Dremmel tool w/ 2
different pointed aluminum oxide stones. The result was that they both
detached from their steel shafts.
My questions are this;
1, Do wheel builders who regularly use eyelet less rims bother to
remove the burrs? 2. If so, how is it done quickly &
efficiently?
Any advice gladly considered.
jim beam
consider the merits of even deburring at all. it removes material at
precisely the point of maximum load, thus potentially affecting fatigue
life if you don't get it right..
Ben C
But might a burr not be a good place for fatigue to start?
jim beam
it might, but consider that it's an excess of material, not a
deficiency. reaming out a hole removes material, and done inexpertly
[to the extent of losing dremel stones] you're pretty much assured of
causing more problems than you solve.
another thought for you ben, if the rim is eyeletted, what is under the
eyelet?
Ben C
Presumably a dirty great burr. But what you don't see can't hurt you
right.
jim beam
right.
Jobst Brandt
> I'm building a 700C front wheel using a Velocity Dyad rim. I
> mistakenly thought that it was a single eyeleted rim. Before
> starting the actually lacing, I deburred the spoke holes on the
> inner tube side as I always do with a single eyeleted rim. Then I
> noticed considerable burrs around the nipple holes. I tried using a
> hand held cutting and scraping type deburring tool with two
> different cutting devices. They probably got 50% of the burrs.
> Then I tried my Dremel tool with 2 different pointed aluminum oxide
> stones. The result was that they both detached from their steel
> shafts.
> My questions are this;
> 1. Do wheel builders who regularly use eyelet less rims bother to
> remove the burrs?
> 2. If so, how is it done quickly & efficiently?
> Any advice gladly considered.
I am interested in what you think these aluminum rim burrs have that
needs removing. What I find missing is a steel eyelet on which the
spoke nipple can be rotated under tension while truing and tensioning
the wheel. I believe brass spoke nipples are tough enough to yield
burrs into reasonable supports for them, but whether the rim can
sustain the concentrated load in the long term is questionable. You
see to what extents some rim manufacturers go to make their rim beds
thicker at the spoke holes.
Jobst Brandt
someone
Burnish them using a cone shape, rock the drilling machine around to
cover different angles. Do both sides if you can. Use a rim/nipple
washer if you think the rim wall is thin (less than 1/16" or 1.6mm is
a good start although I may go down to 3/64" or 1mm on a dual wall).
jay
Jobst
I, like you prefer dbl. eyeleted rims. But if not double at least
single. However, I also like offset (asymmetrical) rims for rear
wheels. So far as I know there are no dbl. eyeleted offset rims made.
But I'm going a little off topic.
I bought these rims in error having gotten a Dyad from Rivendell W/
single eyelets in the past, & thinking all Dyads are single eyelet.
Having said that, I decided to use them anyway. I know Peter & other
successful wheel builders uses Velocity rims regularly.
I see the logic of your & Beam's comments, which I hadn't thought of.
My logic went like this:
It doesn't strike me as good for the longevity of the brass nipples
to be turned against these burrs. However, whether or not this is
true, I know it's never a good thing for a bolt & nut to have a burr
(s) between any of the faying surfaces to compress & reduce the
tension.
After considering both points of view, I think I errored in removing
the burrs @ the nipple / rim faying surface. But I have already built
it into a wheel, I'm going to put it into service. I'm curious to see
how it goes.
Thank You both for your input
BTW I'm still looking for the most efficient way to deburr the holes
on the tube side.
someone
4"x4" timber screwed to bench with end projecting 4", stuffed leather
pad stuck to top face of projection. Rest the rim on the pad and use
large 'centre punch' and twist in the hole. Use three different angles
if necessary. Brush pad clear of swarf to prevent rim scratching when
moving to next hole. Failing that use a custom punch with a locating
centre backed up with a former cut into timber end grain topped with
leather. Your usual working practice should enable you which you
choose.
someone
twenty bucks of ignorance.
someone
> Jay Drew wrote:
> > I'm building a 700C front wheel using a Velocity Dyad rim. I
> > mistakenly thought that it was a single eyeleted rim. Before
> > starting the actually lacing, I deburred the spoke holes on the
> > inner tube side as I always do with a single eyeleted rim. Then I
> > noticed considerable burrs around the nipple holes. I tried using a
> > hand held cutting and scraping type deburring tool with two
> > different cutting devices. They probably got 50% of the burrs.
> > Then I tried my Dremel tool with 2 different pointed aluminum oxide
> > stones. The result was that they both detached from their steel
> > shafts.
> > My questions are this;
> > 1. Do wheel builders who regularly use eyelet less rims bother to
> > remove the burrs?
> > 2. If so, how is it done quickly & efficiently?
> > Any advice gladly considered.
>
> I am interested in what you think these aluminum rim burrs have that
> needs removing.
Ignorance.
> What I find missing is a steel eyelet on which the
> spoke nipple can be rotated under tension while truing and tensioning
> the wheel.
An experienced wheelbuilder does not require eyelets, only machines do
to reduce torque requirements in automated setups.
> I believe brass spoke nipples are tough enough to yield
> burrs into reasonable supports for them, but whether the rim can
> sustain the concentrated load in the long term is questionable.
Except on lightweight rims, which should use nipple washers, the rim
does support the nipple head long term when spoke tension is
reasonable.
>You
> see to what extents some rim manufacturers go to make their rim beds
> thicker at the spoke holes.
>
A change in extrusion die can provide good nipple head support on a
thin walled rim without recourse to washers or eyelets, reducing
manufacturing costs. Dimpling of the rim wall is another option but
is generally used on thicker walled rims. Combined with piercing to
thicken up the area of a nipple bed, I think this technique could be
used with success on a thin walled rim.
Chalo
>
> 1, Do wheel builders who regularly use eyelet less rims bother to
> remove the burrs?
> 2. If so, how is it done quickly & efficiently?
If the burr is raised on the nipple head side, I remove it, to provide
a better bearing surface for the nipple. The best tool for this is a
small single-flute 90 degree countersink, but a drill with 118 degree
point is acceptable if used gently and skilfully. (You know who you
are in this regard.)
Most often, rim holes are drilled from the outer diameter, and thus
the nipple heads are not confronted with significant burrs (those
having been pushed to the inside of the rim).
If you have a good tool like a 1/4" or 5/16" single flute 82 degree or
90 degree countersink, then it would be a good idea to prep a plain
drilled rim by lightly chamfering the spoke holes. That would allow
the nipples to emboss bearing surfaces into the rim with less
displacement of the aluminum, and less deposition of nickel and brass
particles into the surface of the rim. Most plain drilled rims are
thick enough to withstand (robotic) building with dry components and
no finish prep, but tensioning and truing will go easier with careful
chamfering and lube.
Chalo
rruff
> 1, Do wheel builders who regularly use eyelet less rims bother to
> remove the burrs? 2. If so, how is it done quickly &
> efficiently?
I use a 0.25 inch spherical carbide burr mounted in an electric drill
to chamfer the nipple seat.
IMO no-eyelet rims with a triangular shape and thick nipple bed (like
the Dyad) tend to be very resistant to cracking, compared to single-
eyelet rims. They also build up very nicely.
rruff
> Jobst
> I, like you prefer dbl. eyeleted rims. But if not double at least
> single. However, I also like offset (asymmetrical) rims for rear
> wheels. So far as I know there are no dbl. eyeleted offset rims made.
> But I'm going a little off topic.
I think you will find that single eyelet rims and OC rims tend to be
problematic (prone to cracking). Not necessarily in principal, but in
execution. I prefer well designed no-eyelet rims with no OC.
someone
I fear the skill of building up lightweight metal rimmed wheels has
much diappeared. Such a shame that so many will turn away from
cycling because of stiff racing rims with high pressure narrow tyres.
Still not much choice in 25mm HP tyres in the shops. 23mm is pretty
much the standard accepted racing tyre now, god help you if you need a
28mm for the rear.
rruff
> I fear the skill of building up lightweight metal rimmed wheels has
> much diappeared. Such a shame that so many will turn away from
> cycling because of stiff racing rims with high pressure narrow tyres.
> Still not much choice in 25mm HP tyres in the shops. 23mm is pretty
> much the standard accepted racing tyre now, god help you if you need a
> 28mm for the rear.
You can get plenty of 25mm supple racing tires... the Corsa CX being
probably the nicest. But what does this have to do with deburring
rims?
someone
Not locally, which is why I'll keep looking for good quality cheap
tub's. If I can get the response I have found with my sprint setup,
I'll likely switch back to wired tyres. I've given my answers on
deburring rims, I'd prefer rims not to require this at all and have
posted my thoughts on that elsewhere. Namely, pierce them.
someone
wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Sep 2009 00:26:02 -0700 (PDT), someone
>
> <thirty-...@live.co.uk> wrote:
> >Not locally, which is why I'll keep looking for good quality cheap
> >tub's. If I can get the response I have found with my sprint setup,
> >I'll likely switch back to wired tyres. I've given my answers on
> >deburring rims, I'd prefer rims not to require this at all and have
> >posted my thoughts on that elsewhere. Namely, pierce them.
>
> washers), that has to be about the worst setup I've ever worked on.
> The washers are a pain to get fitted and if you lose one off the
> nipple, it ends up inside the rim where you spend five minutes fishing
> it out.
With increasing experience I'm sure you could devise a way to
compensate for your fumbling.