Bicycle Lubricants
Joe
What lubricants are recommended for the various parts of a bicycle?
In particular, wheels, bottom bracket, chain.
Also, recently, the oiling of the pedal spindle threads before screwing
the pedals into the crank arms was mentioned.
Jobst Brandt seemed to nix using lithium grease on the pedal spindle.
What lubricant is advisable for the threads on the various parts that are
screwed together?
Does anyone use paraffin wax for any of these?
Does anyone recommend/dis-recommend lithium grease for any of these?
Mentioning specific brand names for any lubes would be appreciated.
Thanks.
--- Joe
landotter
Grease on ball bearings. Brand matters little. Bikes are low speed
devices. Use whatever you like on the chain to keep it from making
noise. It does not matter.
Worry about brand name lubricants when putting oil in your car's
crankcase--an actual precision high speed doohickey.
I use cheap black grease on the hidden bearings and white lith for day
to day threads and such, as it doesn't smell like a Meineke.
Peter Cole
I use marine trailer grease for ball bearings, it's a pretty color and
smells ok. I use 2-stroke oil for my chain, because I always have some
on hand for the weed whacker. I use anti-seize for threaded fasteners
because I always have that, too.
thirty-six
> Topic: Bicycle Lubricants
>
> What lubricants are recommended for the various parts of a bicycle?
Traditional bicycle ball bearings are best lubricated by oil,
generally the thicker the better.
> In particular, wheels, bottom bracket, chain.
If you can get it in there and keep it wet it will do the job.
>
> Also, recently, the oiling of the pedal spindle threads before screwing
> the pedals into the crank arms was mentioned.
light (thin, low viscosity) oil.
> Jobst Brandt seemed to nix using lithium grease on the pedal spindle.
>
> What lubricant is advisable for the threads on the various parts that are
> screwed together?
light oil.
>
> Does anyone use paraffin wax for any of these?
you can dip spoke threads in hot paraffin wax, but I wouldn't use it
anywhere where torque is the means of judging a fasteners tension.
> Does anyone recommend/dis-recommend lithium grease for any of these?
Grease is useful in the chain, especially with a bushingless chain.
Ronko
4.231.171.106.dial1.losangeles1.level3.net>, no...@given.now says...
normally not in the rain, where it might be too light and come off
easily. Other than that it last a few hundred miles, easy to wipe the
chain fairly clean, and reapply. Seems to attract less dirt and road
grime than other lubes I've tried. YMMV
Qui si parla Campagnolo
Threads-any grease or antisieze. Chain-ProLink. Housing, der pivots,
freehub pawls-Mobil One. Bearing balls-grease, any grease. I like blue
marine grease or white lithium.
Qui si parla Campagnolo
Oil and gravity don't mix. If the oil is really thick, it's called
grease. Grease is oil in 'soap'.
Bill
formulated to stay put and do its job for a long time and many miles,
and to resist water intrusion, because people no longer service their
automobile wheel bearings regularly like they did in the old days.
Now they never pay any attention to their wheel bearings unless they
have to remove the drums or rotors in order to do a brake job, which
might be only every 10 years or more. And when they eventually do
remove the drums or rotors to fix their brakes, the wheel bearings are
almost always perfectly OK, having received proper lubrication the
entire time. Compared to such severe service, lubricating bike
bearings is nothing.
Chainsaw bar oil for the chain. It is specifically formulated to
cling to the chainsaw chain, despite high centrifugal forces trying to
throw it off. It stays on the chain the best of any available oil.
thirty-six
Yes, oil will drip unless contained, if the bearing is not moving.
Fortunatately all the hubs and bottom brackets I have used have the
bearing cup on the outside or use a seperate containment cap. This
mitigates the loss of lubricant to an acceptable level sufficient to
provide self clensing of the bearing unit. Grease must be pumped to
acheive the same effect.. Fluid greases are available which can
manage this which will require the fitting of a greasing port inbpound
of the bearing unit. Oiling can be accomplished with very good effect
from either side.
carl...@comcast.net
<retrog...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>Chainsaw bar oil for the chain. It is specifically formulated to
>cling to the chainsaw chain, despite high centrifugal forces trying to
>throw it off. It stays on the chain the best of any available oil.
Dear Bill,
A bicycle chain moves so slowly that oil isn't likely to fly off it.
Even at 90 rpm on a 53-tooth, bike chain moves only 2.6 mph.
A chainsaw moves its links at 60 mph, twenty times as fast:
http://sawmillchainsaws.com/sawfacts.htm
Motorcycle chains end up roughly in the middle, with a 52-tooth rear
sprocket moving chain at ~18 mph in a 60 mph zone.
90 * 53 links / minute = 4770 links per minute
1/2 inch / link * 4770 links / minute = 2385 inches / minute
2385 inches / minute * 60 minutes / hour = 143,100 inches / hour
(143,100 inches / hour) / (12 inches/foot ) = 11,925 feet / hour
(11,925 feet / hour) / (5280 feet/mile) = 2.6 mph chain speed
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
sergio
> A bicycle chain moves so slowly that oil isn't likely to fly off it.
> Even at 90 rpm on a 53-tooth, bike chain moves only 2.6 mph.
> A chainsaw moves its links at 60 mph, twenty times as fast:
Mind you dear Carl.
To be more convincing you ought to speak of accelerations, not
velocities.
Sergio
Pisa
Ken
> Topic: Bicycle Lubricants
>
> What lubricants are recommended for the various parts of a bicycle?
>
>
These guys have their own idea on the right lube for a certain
part ;-)
Jobst Brandt
>> Chainsaw bar oil for the chain. It is specifically formulated to
>> cling to the chainsaw chain, despite high centrifugal forces trying
>> to throw it off. It stays on the chain the best of any available
>> oil.
> A bicycle chain moves so slowly that oil isn't likely to fly off it.
> Even at 90 rpm on a 53-tooth, bike chain moves only 2.6 mph. A
> chainsaw moves its links at 60 mph, twenty times as fast:
http://sawmillchainsaws.com/sawfacts.htm
> Motorcycle chains end up roughly in the middle, with a 52-tooth rear
> sprocket moving chain at ~18 mph in a 60 mph zone.
> 90 * 53 links / minute = 4770 links per minute
> 1/2 inch / link * 4770 links / minute = 2385 inches / minute
> 2385 inches / minute * 60 minutes / hour = 143,100 inches / hour
> (143,100 inches / hour) / (12 inches/foot ) = 11,925 feet / hour
> (11,925 feet / hour) / (5280 feet/mile) = 2.6 mph chain speed
Chain saw oil is low viscosity fluid containing a volatile solvent
that evaporates to leave a sticky viscous lubricant after penetrating
the chain. Bicyclists often seek a chain lubricant that does not
readily make black prints on one's legs with slightest contact.
Chainsaw oil fills that demand. Chain speed on bicycles is enough to
make motor oil splatter on rear wheels and leave oil drops on rims to
collect dirt and affect rear braking.
Jobst Brandt
thirty-six
Automobile grease is formulated for roller bearings which run hotter
than cycle ball bearings. They also typically operate at a
considerably higher speed and lower stress. What suits the car is not
likely to suit the bicycle. The cycle bearing is grossly overloaded
in comparison, for weight is our enemy and the bearing sizes have been
designed with the best lubricant in mind, oil. Using anything less is
courting failure. Cycle bearing service is severe because of the low
speeds and high element pressure. Wear is not a significant problem
alone but fatigue of the balls and bearing tracks is. Good
lubrication will mitigate fatigue of the tracks if it removes wear
debris at the same time. The more often it is done, the longer the
bearing life. Frequency of oiling may be reduced as the bearing
becomes ultra smooth and so feww wear particles are generated.
thirty-six
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Water, Glycerin, Ozokerite, Cetearyl Alcohol, Santalum Album
(Sandalwood) Wood Extract, Phellodendron Amurense Bark Extract,
Hordeum Distichon (Barley) Extract, Polyglyceryl-10 Pentastearate,
Behenyl Alcohol, Sodium Stearoyl Lactylate, Stearic Acid, Cetyl
Esters, Glyceryl Stearate, Olive Fruit Unsaponifiables, Evodia
Rutaecarpa Fruit Extract, Peucedanum (Masterwort) Ostruthium Extract,
Linoleic Acid, Soy Sterols, Soy Phospholipids, Ergothioneine,
Dipotassium Glycyrrhizate, Bisabolol, Allantoin, Tocopheryl Acetate,
Menthol, Melaleuca Alternifolia (Tea Tree) Leaf Oil, Xanthan Gum,
Capric/Caprylic Triglycerides, Retinyl (Vitamin A) Palmitate,
Panthenyl (Provitamin B5) Triacetate, Tetrahexyldecyl (Vitamin C)
Ascorbate, Phenoxyehtanol, Caprylyl Glycol, Ethylhexylglycerin,
Hexylene Glycol, Cetearyl Methicone, Dimethicone.
* Fair Trade Ingredients whenever possible.
* Organic Sources whenever possible.
* Fragrance Free
* Natural As Possible
* No Animal Byproducts
INGREDIENTS WE WILL NEVER USE
Parabens
PPG - PolyPropylene Glycol
PEG - PolyEthylene Glycol
Propylene glycol
TEA-Triethanolamine
Ingredients Containing DEA (Diethanolamine)
Paraffin
Petrolatum
Mineral Oil
Petrolatum
Animal by Products
Aluminum
Artificial Colors
Diazolidinyl Urea (formaldehyde donor preservative)
DMDM Hydantoin (formaldehyde donor preservative)
Imidazolidinyl Urea (formaldehyde donor preservative)
Lanolin
Artificial Colors (D&C or FD&C)
Methylchloroisothiazolinone, or Methylisothiazolinone
Phthalates
+++++++++++++++++++++
Easier than this, wash body with Wrights coal tar soap which includes
tea tree oil. Use a brush and leave the suds for two minutes before
rinsing off. Wash your chamois with the same soap but dont remove all
the soap if using a genuine chamois. Dry the chamois before use,
hanging in the sun helps. If you must use a bit of slop, use cold
cream or zinc znd castor oil cream.
Any boils or pustules may be treated using acetone which dissolves the
sebum and permits the pores to function correctly. An application of
almond oil following acetone treatment will also assist.
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Jobst,
If the chain makes "contact" with your pants, it smears your pants
whether the oil is for chainsaws or sewing machines.
The extremely low chain speed of bicycles suggests that anything that
ends up on other surfaces is slow drip from excessive oil that hasn't
been wiped off.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
Chalo
>
> Bill wrote:
> >
> > Automobile wheel bearing grease for the hubs and bottom bracket. It is
> > formulated to stay put and do its job for a long time and many miles,
> > and to resist water intrusion, because people no longer service their
> > automobile wheel bearings regularly like they did in the old days.
> > Now they never pay any attention to their wheel bearings unless they
> > have to remove the drums or rotors in order to do a brake job, which
> > might be only every 10 years or more. And when they eventually do
> > remove the drums or rotors to fix their brakes, the wheel bearings are
> > almost always perfectly OK, having received proper lubrication the
> > entire time. Compared to such severe service, lubricating bike
> > bearings is nothing.
>
> than cycle ball bearings. They also typically operate at a
> considerably higher speed and lower stress. What suits the car is not
> likely to suit the bicycle. The cycle bearing is grossly overloaded
> in comparison, for weight is our enemy and the bearing sizes have been
> designed with the best lubricant in mind, oil. Using anything less is
> courting failure.
So what do you think about immersing the entire bike in hot lard when
not riding it? Would that work? I can only afford enough whale oil
to immerse it up to the bottom bracket.
Chalo
Bill
likely to fly off it."
Ordinary motor oil does fly off my chain, and winds up all over the
chainstays, rear rim and spokes and makes the rear brake squeak like
hell until it dissipates. I hate that!
Chalo
>
> Threads-any grease or antisieze. Chain-ProLink.
What about ProLink do you find to be noticeably better than other
chain lubes? I use Tri-Flow if I'm at work, Dupont Teflon dry wax
spray if at home. I've been satisfied with just about any kind of
chain lube as long as it isn't sticky (like motorcycle chain lube).
> Housing, der pivots, freehub pawls-Mobil One.
Motor oil? If so, what weight?
Chalo
Bill
lube as long as it isn't sticky (like motorcycle chain lube)."
Chalo, I'm sure you realize that stickiness (sometimes called
"tenaciousness" by oil companies) is sold as a virtue. I'm curious:
why don't you like sticky oil? Is there something undesirable about it
that I'm not aware of?
The place where oil tends to fly off the chain the most is at the
derailleur jockey wheels because they operate at a high rpm, which
tends to fling it off the jockey wheels themseves, plus the chain is
changing directions twice completely before it engages the rear cog.
It is being rapidly accelerated forward and backward it travels
through the jockey wheels, and that's where the oil tends to get flung
off the chain.
thirty-six
> Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:
>
>
>
> > Threads-any grease or antisieze. Chain-ProLink.
>
> What about ProLink do you find to be noticeably better than other
> chain lubes? I use Tri-Flow if I'm at work, Dupont Teflon dry wax
> spray if at home. I've been satisfied with just about any kind of
> chain lube as long as it isn't sticky (like motorcycle chain lube).
Ah, oil without oiliness, hmmm.
>
> > Housing, der pivots, freehub pawls-Mobil One.
>
> Motor oil? If so, what weight?
It's a fully synthetic motor oil without viscosity improvers, probably
0w30, maybe wider. It's what is called a shear stable oil, it is
reported as good for a chain lubricant. If you are going to use a
mineral oil on a bicycle then this is the choice one.
Jobst Brandt
>> Threads-any grease or anti-seize. Chain-ProLink.
> What about ProLink do you find to be noticeably better than other
> chain lubes? I use Tri-Flow if I'm at work, Dupont Teflon dry wax
> spray if at home. I've been satisfied with just about any kind of
> chain lube as long as it isn't sticky (like motorcycle chain lube).
>> Housing, der pivots, freehub pawls-Mobil One.
> Motor oil? If so, what weight?
Use 10W oil and wipe off excess after by pedaling backward while
running the chain through a suitable rag in a firm grip.
Don't use 90W gear oil because that will make a freewheel cluster a
solid block of grime, gear lubricant acting as excellent fly paper
that will pick up any dust the chain experiences. A caked FW cluster
is difficult to clean other than to immerse it in kerosene or paint
thinner until the cake dissolves and can be brushed out of the
sprockets.
Jobst Brandt
semi-ambivalent
The Finns eat whales, give them a call.
sa
thirty-six
Lard works, but I dont know for how long. Heating up a chain in
lard will certainly reduce friction and it wont drip off in typical
conditions. I suspect that it could also be used in wheel and crank
bearings but possibly for even shorter period than the chain. It
suffers quite easily from oxygen degeneration. It may be suitable for
a track meet or a weekend, but I wouldn't trust it any longer. BTW
lard looks even dirtier than when using motor oil.
thirty-six
In other words its easy to clean when you use a Regina can with
kerosene and so it never gets caked up. As soon as lumps start
forming you clean it. No problem. Scrape off bits until a rainy day
gives you time to do the cleaning.
thirty-six
It's your tyre condition you need to keep a check on. If they shown
signs of oil staining you need to scrub them clean with soap and hot
water or else the protective sidewall rubber breaks down leaving the
cords open to exposure.
thirty-six
Of modern mineral based lubricants the choice oil (other than Mobil 1)
would be a farm machinery oil having a SAE viscosity of 120. I used
this on an "Outrider" after greases and regular oils failed to give
the speed required for a race. The lack of suspension highlights the
lubrication requirements for friction reduction and also probably for
fatigue prevention. This was not a loaded soap as for grease but a
thickened oil. Dont know its precise categorisation, all I know is
that it was used for farm equipment. IThe oil was very dark, but not
black. Not only did we (2 up) win the race, we won by a considerable
margin, i think it may have been ten seconds on a two minute fall.
This was only 2 hours after it was obvious our machine possessed no
speed whatsoever. It seems our competitors did not not take the
challenge they offered too seriously, it cost them some Curly Wurleys
and a bag of Bassetts Jellies IIRC. It cost me (well , my mother) a
pair of jeans , because I managed to tear the knee out. I'd worn them
twice. It was a good day.
Chalo
>
> It's a fully synthetic motor oil without viscosity improvers, probably
> 0w30, maybe wider. It's what is called a shear stable oil, it is
> reported as good for a chain lubricant. If you are going to use a
> mineral oil on a bicycle then this is the choice one.
Can you recommend any particular dairy-based oils for bicycle chains,
Trevor? I was considering ghee, but then I wondered whether Trevor
might prefer triple-cream brie.
Chalo
thirty-six
It wouldn't surprise me if teat oil is castor oil which is suitable
for bicycle bearings and chains, it does not gum.
DougC
> Topic: Bicycle Lubricants
>
> What lubricants are recommended for the various parts of a bicycle?
>
>
I use Tri-Flow on the chain. It works well (teflon powder) but is runny
and smelly.
Generally I look for lubes that have teflon powder, or I add it if I
can't get it already in them. The only exception to this is for piston
engine lube, because the (solid) teflon ends up being harder than usual
on the piston rings.
> Also, recently, the oiling of the pedal spindle threads before screwing
> the pedals into the crank arms was mentioned.
>
> Jobst Brandt seemed to nix using lithium grease on the pedal spindle.
I have only ever used small amounts of whatever common oil or grease I
had close by on threads to prevent seizing. On all the non-bicycle
machinery I work on, I /always/ lube threads.
That said, I have read articles where testing showed that lubricating
oil /did/ significantly reduce how resistant the threads were to coming
loose.
I admit that "real" anti-seize might be a better choice, but I've never
seen problems with the "a bit of whatever oil/grease" method, so I keep
on doing it.
>
> What lubricant is advisable for the threads on the various parts that are
> screwed together?
>
> Does anyone use paraffin wax for any of these?
>
> Does anyone recommend/dis-recommend lithium grease for any of these?
>
> Mentioning specific brand names for any lubes would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --- Joe
For a general-purpose grease I like Super Lube multi-purpose-
http://www.super-lube.com/greases-ez-44.htm
(the "lubricating" grease has a slightly higher max temperature that's
not useful in this case)
This stuff is particularly resistant to separating, so it stays where
you put it very well. Cheap greases will separate over time or
temperature swings--the liquid runs off, leaving the gummy solid junk
that clumps up.
Another nice thing about Super Lube is that it is clear/off-white color,
so it doesn't leave nearly as bad of stains as some others (like Shimano
grease) do. It won't stain your skin at all, and only stains clothing
slightly darker.
(yer chains still going to get black though, because that's mostly road
dirt)
~
somebody
wrote:
>On 12/10/2009 9:22 PM, Joe wrote:
>> Topic: Bicycle Lubricants
>>
>> What lubricants are recommended for the various parts of a bicycle?
>>
>> In particular, wheels, bottom bracket, chain.
>>
>
>I use Tri-Flow on the chain. It works well (teflon powder) but is runny
>and smelly.
>
>Generally I look for lubes that have teflon powder, or I add it if I
>can't get it already in them. The only exception to this is for piston
>engine lube, because the (solid) teflon ends up being harder than usual
>on the piston rings.
>
Where do you get teflon powder? And is that what's in the teflon
lubes? Most of them look fairly clear.
thirty-six
> On Sat, 12 Dec 2009 05:29:21 -0600, DougC <dcim...@norcom2000.com>
That's because they only used a pin to scratch the baking tray. Make
sure your teflon grease has been loade4d by wire brushing for
effectual use. ;-) I've had better results with molybdenum
disulphide preparations where there are high static pressures involved
to overcome stiction. Most useful on a bicycle chain and would go
someway to protect a ball bearing should the oil become sparse.
thirty-six
Sorry, should have asked, a non-oily or an oily oil?
Qui si parla Campagnolo
'Dry' lube if applied the night before. Works well, lasts a long time.
There are zillions of good chain lubes out there, I sell a lot of
ProLink.
5w-15 for Mobil One. Doesn't get thick when it gets cold. great for
freewheel and freehub innards. Cheap as 'oils' go. A quart of TriFlow
is 3-4 times as much.
DougC
The teflon powder is a solid, but it is in microscopic particle sizes.
The liquid lubes purposefully don't contain a whole lot of it, because
the idea is that the lube will run freely enough that it will wash the
teflon into cracks that the teflon wouldn't otherwise manage to get to
on its own. If you can apply the lube directly to the target surface you
can go quite a bit crazier with it--but even at that, it still don't
take very much. A little teflon powder goes a long way.
The teflon powder you can buy online from Spurlock tools:
http://www.spurlocktools.com/id39.htm
I got the $60/24 oz jar and I'll probably never need more teflon for the
rest of my life. The jar is 3.5 inches diameter, 6.5 inches tall and
comes filled to within a half-inch of the top.
For as great as a solid lubricant as teflon is (better than moly-sulfide
or graphite) I was very surprised that there only seems to be one guy
/anywhere/ selling it in small quantities--and he sells it for tuning
pianos, of all things.
I had to phone my credit-card number in, and so I got to talk to the
fellow a bit. I didn't ask exactly what grade (particle size) the teflon
he sells is, but it is produced in different sizes and I don't know what
size the commercially-made lubes use anyway. It looks like flour,
basically. You can't see individual particles with the unaided eye,
they're far smaller than that.
He said that most of the teflon powder he sells is to people not using
it for pianos at all; many people using it as lubricant or as a mold
release. He noted he gets orders from all over the world for the stuff.
I asked where he got it from and he said that anyone can buy it directly
from DuPont distributors, but the minimum quantity is a 55-lb pail.
~
AMuzi
You raced wearing your mother's jeans? Figures.
Carry on, Trevor.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
thirty-six
No, I was about eleven years old, the jeans were mine, bought by my
mother. An Outrider was a skateboard like contraption with three
wheel axles instead of two.
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Bill,
No matter what the front RPM is, all rear sprockets spin at the same
RPM, namely the rear wheel RPM.
That's 125~250~375 RPM for 10~20~30 mph on a bicycle.
Chainsaw sprockets spin at ~15,000 RPM.
***
What "flies" off bicycle chains tends to be the lavish excess.
Most riders slather a hundred times more oil on their chains than
necessary. A single drop (or less) of oil will lubricate the hidden
pin-roller interface.
But it's impractical to lubricate just the unseen pin-roller
interface, so we just coat the whole chain quickly with oil.
We also tend to think that a _really_ well-oiled chain must last
longer or run more efficiently.
But any oil that can be seen is useless. Only the thin film of oil out
of sight between the pins and rollers does any good.
So most riders don't wipe the drool off their freshly oiled chain and
sprockets. Left overnight, the stuff will drip off onto the floor.
Then they complain that it's flying off.
Next step, search for a chain oil so expensive that they will apply
far less oil, which is so viscous that not much may actually get
between the pins and rollers.
I've been quite pleased since I switched to Dupont spray wax.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
datakoll
TRYING Pedro's 2.0 on the wheel studs following lugging up over
Loctite Walmart Blue or is thsat Walmart Loctite Blue.
Linseed wouldn't cut it at twilight in the swamp with Mr. Dually
cruisin'.
Tom Sherman °_°
> [...]
> Threads-any grease or antisieze. Chain-ProLink. Housing, der pivots,
> freehub pawls-Mobil One. Bearing balls-grease, any grease. I like blue
> marine grease or white lithium.
What about crank tapers?
--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.
Jobst Brandt
>> "A bicycle chain moves so slowly that oil isn't
>> likely to fly off it."
>> Ordinary motor oil does fly off my chain, and winds up all over the
>> chainstays, rear rim and spokes and makes the rear brake squeak like
>> hell until it dissipates. I hate that!
> No matter what the front RPM is, all rear sprockets spin at the same
> RPM, namely the rear wheel RPM.
> That's 125~250~375 RPM for 10~20~30 mph on a bicycle.
> Chainsaw sprockets spin at ~15,000 RPM.
> What "flies" off bicycle chains tends to be the lavish excess.
> Most riders slather a hundred times more oil on their chains than
> necessary. A single drop (or less) of oil will lubricate the hidden
> pin-roller interface.
> But it's impractical to lubricate just the unseen pin-roller
> interface, so we just coat the whole chain quickly with oil.
> We also tend to think that a _really_ well-oiled chain must last
> longer or run more efficiently.
> But any oil that can be seen is useless. Only the thin film of oil
> out of sight between the pins and rollers does any good.
> So most riders don't wipe the drool off their freshly oiled chain
> and sprockets. Left overnight, the stuff will drip off onto the
> floor.
> Then they complain that it's flying off.
> Next step, search for a chain oil so expensive that they will apply
> far less oil, which is so viscous that not much may actually get
> between the pins and rollers.
> I've been quite pleased since I switched to Dupont spray wax.
What improvement did you experience with "Spray Wax" a lubricant that
has the characteristics of chainsaw lubricant? It has a volatile
solvent that evaporates after application.
Jobst Brandt
Tom Ace
> No matter what the front RPM is, all rear sprockets spin at the same
> RPM, namely the rear wheel RPM.
Except sprockets on gearhubs.
Tom Ace
Jobst Brandt
The first explanation was that it didn't occur because the chain
didn't rotate fast enough. Then it was only at the rear sprocket, but
because bicyclists apply too much oil. But then when it got down to
the chain changing direction around the derailleur idlers, all bets
were off, although oil splatter in rear wheels is an age old problem
for which various dry lubricants or ones that dry after application
have been offered, even for track bicycles with no derailleur.
To say that bicyclists are incapable of properly applying oil to their
chains before wiping away any excess, is presumptuous, considering how
common the problem is for riders who lubricate their chains.
Jobst Brandt
thirty-six
That's always the place to start. Have you tried it as a chain
lubricant?
datakoll
door hasps
thirty-six
> Finish Line 'dry lube' with wax and maybe teflon is killer on sliding
> door hasps
I used Molyslip, cant remembeer when now. working indefinitely by
the looks.
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Jobst,
Drive train lasts longer, stays cleaner.
Hard to confuse a spray-on wax with chainsaw oil.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
dusto...@mac.com
Hey hey calm down, you two!
It's a spray wax *and* a chainsaw oil!
<http://www.hulu.com/watch/61320/saturday-night-live-shimmer-floor-
wax>
--D--y
datakoll
Moly. Are Moly additives dinosaurus after durable synthetic oil
polymers ?
FL teflon iza beaut caws its non staining, invisible on your Kestrel.
Moly's prob water soluble and grit sensitive but otherwise eternal.
That's the deal with dino lubes. Grit gets in then the stuff is a
bera to remove figuring actually removing it and its grit from all
nich and canyons...
Jobst Brandt
>> Drive train lasts longer, stays cleaner.
>> Hard to confuse a spray-on wax with chainsaw oil.
> Hey hey calm down, you two! It's a spray wax *and* a chainsaw oil!
I suspect the assessment of chin saw lubricant is theoretical. I've
lubed chainsaws with the best of them in my lumberjack days in Oregon.
Check the above web site if you don't believe chain saw lube is good
for bicycle chains,... and it sprays on.
Jobst Brandt
datakoll
graphite ENHANCED with uh what ? eyeeyhah you know... warm... graphite
glued to the bar...
the constant is, cycle chains and parts run slow and cool whereas
lubes for almost everthing else ceptin clockworks ....was design for
not cycle chains. This is not entirely logical but serves as a handy
rule for chalice seekers
tomato/pepper ect conveyor belt chain lubes where produce is conveyed
from truck offload thru cleaning, waxing, inspection and grading to
packing machinery and loading dock are chains running at bicycle
speeds, in cleaner conditions, but higher stress.
example for search starts. what is the stuff meant for as related to
cycle design and use.
enhanced with beeswax !
wouldnitbe - nanotech produces zero friction total gritphobia chain
lube ! enhanced off course.
Bill Sornson
> I suspect the assessment of chin saw lubricant is theoretical.
By...Mennen.
DougC
For general [metal] machinery oiling, moly is an okay lube (works better
than graphite in most situations, anyway) but it has one practical
problem in that it is BLACK,,,, and if you add very much of it to new
clean oil, it will darken the oil as if the oil is old or dirty.
Teflon doesn't cause that problem: teflon powder is white. If you only
add a bit it just disappears into the oil. If you add a whole bunch it
turns the (new, clean) oil a slightly milky-white color. Which does
change the oil's regular color somewhat, but changes it the /opposite/
way of being dirty.... so it doesn't prevent you from noticing when the
oil has really gotten dirty.
(-moly also badly stains your clothes and skin. I've got some around for
a pricey airgun because thats what they said to use. I don't use it for
anything else-)
~
landotter
Jobst, the Pedantic Lumberjack. The children's book writes itself. :-D
Jay Beattie
>
> - Show quoted text -
This is what Carl is using: http://tinyurl.com/ycqwyph Note the
price, which is really the product's best feature. Us bicyclejacks in
Oregon prefer something a little more robust for this time of year.
The Dupont product tends to wash off quickly in the rain and is not
particularly good at preventing rust. It's pretty good during the
summer, though. I still think ProLink is the simplest and best all-
season lubricant, although over-priced.
As for chain saw oil, I've used that too and have a bunch in my garage
-- but I apply it with a pump oil can. I could not imagine spraying
it without using a compressor, being that it is highly viscous and
tacky to prevent fly-off from the chain bar. It also is a dirt
magnet. It is a pretty good winter lubricant since it is good at
holding on to the chain and preventing rust.
BTW, were you really lubing chainsaw bar/chains in Oregon -- was this
before chain saws with oil pumps or pressurized oil reservoirs? I
throw some oil on the sprocket tip, but otherwise, the saw lubricates
itself, assuming that the oil holes haven't clogged, etc. -- Jay
Beattie.
landotter
I like the Dupont stuff in the dry for sure. I've been using CRC spray
white lith in the slop. The carrier helps it penetrate the chain. It
stays put for weeks.
thirty-six
> Topic: Bicycle Lubricants
>
> What lubricants are recommended for the various parts of a bicycle?
>
> In particular, wheels, bottom bracket, chain.
Depends who you ask.
See the Wipperman main catalogue for instance for lubrication of
industrial drive chains.
http://www.wippermann.com/data-live-wipperm/docs/pdf/Wippermann-catalogue-2007-E.pdf
pages 91 onwards. It does say that if you lube your chain using
manual application of oil, you need to do it every 8 hours.
It recommends molybdenum disulphide for furnace use, There is nothing
to suggest it would not be suitable for a bicycle. Experience shows
it to stick despite repeated rubbing and washing. An extract from the
catalogue follows.
• Oil or grease lubrication
Oils are normally used for continuous relubrication.
Grease is preferred, if the ambient air contains dust (lime,
talcum, flour etc.).
• Operating temperature
This is one of the most significant aspects of lubricant
selection. The decisive criterion is the temperature in the
chain bearing during operation.
• Viscosity
Viscosity must be high enough so that all the chain parts
are protected against wear and galling. However, despite
high viscosity the oil must be sufficiently capable of flow.
The following rules of thumb apply:
- Low bearing pressure, high chain
speed = low viscosity
- High bearing pressure, low chain
speed = high viscosity
- Low operating temperature = low viscosity
- High operating temperature= high viscosity
• Initial lubricant
It must have excellent corrosion protection qualities and
guarantee sufficient wear protection up to the first
relubrication. The envisaged operating conditions should
be taken into account.
• Load-bearing properties
Sufficient load-bearing properties of the lubricating oil film
help to reduce wear.
• Friction point wetting
The chain lubricant must be able to permeate the
lubrication gap autonomously
It also mention reduction of noise being a criteria for lubricant
selection. Choosing a differential, steering or gearbox oil is a good
choice and is immediately satisfying in this regard.
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Jay & LD,
That CRC spray looks interesting--thanks for the link.
But the Dupont works well for me, since I get flats more often than I
get wet on my daily ride.
Speaking of which . . .
A rare glass chip punctured my rear Kevlar-belt tire this afternoon, a
change from the usual goathead.
Surprisingly, the Slime tube lasted all the way home.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
datakoll
Joe - try Valvoline synthetic trans oil for chain lube. let dry
overnight or more before using. The Valvo is everyday road cycling in
a wide temp range, sticky lasting thru one rain event, cleans off,
doesn't smell, doesn't throw and has detergent capabilities ? Cheap.
decant into old Finish Line bottles. pack deray pully's with Castrol
marine wheel bearing grease from Walmart onshore
the marine is remarkable synth grease also good for worn bearings
everywhere.
linseed all exposed steel, Finish Line teflon all cables, cable
openiongs, brake pivots ect.
Never use lithium anything. WW2.
datakoll
head liners fermuh Big Apple/big Halo. went to Columbia Gorge for the
whatsit River RR, rumored as goat heavy, and found the air fouled. No
ride but escaped over the top to spectac scenery then bumbled onto
what the Hill's Stonehenge, which off course works as predicted !!!
eeyyyahahawhoha dwcks the halls with limbs of picts tra ect ect.
Colin B.
> On Fri, 11 Dec 2009 07:11:19 -0800 (PST), Bill
> <retrog...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>Chainsaw bar oil for the chain. It is specifically formulated to
>>cling to the chainsaw chain, despite high centrifugal forces trying to
>>throw it off. It stays on the chain the best of any available oil.
>
> Dear Bill,
>
> A bicycle chain moves so slowly that oil isn't likely to fly off it.
Maybe not from rotation, but a bicycle chain is also under relatively low
tension, and during shifting, can slop back and forth quite a bit. Hit a
rock while shifting, and how fast will the chain 'snap' back into place
(both vertically and horizontally)? I think this shaking is what is most
responsible for the stays getting greasy.
Colin
Colin B.
> Topic: Bicycle Lubricants
>
> What lubricants are recommended for the various parts of a bicycle?
>
> In particular, wheels, bottom bracket, chain.
Chain: Pro-Link by Pro Gold. Great dry stuff. Doesn't build up dirt, but
actually stays in the bearings and lubricates.
Jobst Brandt
>>> Chainsaw bar oil for the chain. It is specifically formulated to
>>> cling to the chainsaw chain, despite high centrifugal forces
>>> trying to throw it off. It stays on the chain the best of any
>>> available oil.
>> A bicycle chain moves so slowly that oil isn't likely to fly off
>> it.
> Maybe not from rotation, but a bicycle chain is also under
> relatively low tension, and during shifting, can slop back and forth
> quite a bit. Hit a rock while shifting, and how fast will the chain
> 'snap' back into place (both vertically and horizontally)? I think
> this shaking is what is most responsible for the stays getting
> greasy.
From the responses to this thread it seems few people use oil or even
maintain their own bicycles including chain lubrication. Oil spatter
on rims is an age-old problem, giving rise to many waxes and dry or
drying lubricants. Oil dissolved dissolved waxes splatter to the rear
wheel and does so mostly from the chain running over derailleur
idlers, with their small diameter. This also occurs i wet weather
when water makes any lubricant with dirt more mobile.
Ask a bike shop that maintains bicycles and they can tell you about
their dirty rear wheels.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/chain-care.html
Jobst Brandt
datakoll
FL sent a torpedo over when I switched to Valvo. Delores sent them ?
Mr T complained I was over using FL Epic when I complained about
splash. But the prob was in really hot conditions, the FL simply
disappeared at around 30 miles. So they said....
But the Valvo stays all day. If brake prep is applied than splash gets
spread out, worked to the edges and braking continues.
I have no idea why yawl make this so complex. Maybe its the strontium
90 not lead thgis time.
z
More likely due from a snapping effect of the oil's surface tension when
the chain and cog separate.
datakoll
LF
>
> >Chainsaw bar oil for the chain. ..
Carl,
FWIW, chainsaw lube looks a lot like Phil Wood Tenacious Oil to me.
Either works well on bike chains when applied sparingly, and wiping
off the excess.
Best,
Larry
datakoll
chain saw lube isn't tenacious, the stuff flies into orbit along with
wood chips.
Tenacious would clog the channel.
hot HOT gear lube with the supply opened wide works best but off
course is expensive in oil use.
carl...@comcast.net
> Topic:Bicycle Lubricants
>
>
> Thanks.
>
> --- Joe
Dear Joe,
Specifically, Bicyline--the only perfect lubricant that Zimmerman was
ever able to find!
http://i48.tinypic.com/2k2fqu.jpg
I have no idea how to pronounce "bicycline," whatever it was.
It had no gum, may have been a grease, and was supposed to replace the
popular graphite sticks and powders.
Zimmerman's testimonial is the 1892 equivalent of Lance Armstrong
endorsing a modern brand of chain oil or wax.
Scroll up for another Bicyline ad, along with its wretched
competitors, including graphite:
Our great-grandfathers carried oilers not just for chains, but for the
bottom bracket and hubs.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
Bad Idea
>
> Jobst, the Pedantic Lumberjack. The children's book writes itself. :-D-
. . . and dilettante engineer. The book is already written.
Tom Sherman °_°
--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.
Ozark Bicycle
<twshermanREM...@THISsouthslope.net> wrote:
> Bad Idea who? wrote:
> > On Dec 13, 9:58 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Jobst, the Pedantic Lumberjack. The children's book writes itself. :-D-
>
> > . . . and dilettante engineer. The book is already written.
>
> So snipes the anonymous person.
>
"Anonymity" does not diminish the truth of the statement.
AMuzi
>>>> Jobst, the Pedantic Lumberjack. The children's book writes itself. :-D-
>> Bad Idea who? wrote:
>>> . . . and dilettante engineer. The book is already written.
> Tom Sherman �_� <twshermanREM...@THISsouthslope.net> wrote:
>> So snipes the anonymous person.
Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> "Anonymity" does not diminish the truth of the statement.
Two anonymous snipes. Must be true, then.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Ozark Bicycle
> >>> On Dec 13, 9:58 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Jobst, the Pedantic Lumberjack. The children's book writes itself. :-D-
> >> Bad Idea who? wrote:
> >>> . . . and dilettante engineer. The book is already written.
> > Tom Sherman °_° <twshermanREM...@THISsouthslope.net> wrote:
> >> So snipes the anonymous person.
> Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> > "Anonymity" does not diminish the truth of the statement.
>
> Two anonymous snipes. Must be true, then.
>
Jumping on the "anonymous poster" Brandtwagon, Andrew?
Tom Sherman °_°
>>>> On Dec 13, 9:58 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Jobst, the Pedantic Lumberjack. The children's book writes itself.
>>>>> :-D-
>
>>> Bad Idea who? wrote:
>>>> . . . and dilettante engineer. The book is already written.
>
>> Tom Sherman �_� <twshermanREM...@THISsouthslope.net> wrote:
>>> So snipes the anonymous person.
>
> Ozark Bicycle wrote:
>> "Anonymity" does not diminish the truth of the statement.
>
>
> Two anonymous snipes. Must be true, then.
>
Ozark Bicycle is not that anonymous, since Carl Fogel wrote a
complaining letter to OB's parents.
Ozark Bicycle
<twshermanREM...@THISsouthslope.net> wrote:
> Andrew Muzi wrote:
> >>>> On Dec 13, 9:58 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> Jobst, the Pedantic Lumberjack. The children's book writes itself.
> >>>>> :-D-
>
> >>> Bad Idea who? wrote:
> >>>> . . . and dilettante engineer. The book is already written.
>
> >> Tom Sherman °_° <twshermanREM...@THISsouthslope.net> wrote:
> >>> So snipes the anonymous person.
>
> > Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> >> "Anonymity" does not diminish the truth of the statement.
>
> > Two anonymous snipes. Must be true, then.
>
> Ozark Bicycle is not that anonymous, since Carl Fogel wrote a
> complaining letter to OB's parents.
>
That first letter, which cost Carlita $8.34 to send, was a real hoot.
Carlita was so *earnest*. My dad and I had the best laugh in years
reading it. Unfortunately, after I told Fogel what a fool he was, a
series of semi-creepy letters, also posrmarked from Pueblo, Colorado
(but sent plain ol' 1st class mail), sterted arriving.
Spike
<bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote:
> On Dec 27, 9:21 am, Tom Sherman °_°
>
>
>
> <twshermanREM...@THISsouthslope.net> wrote:
> > Andrew Muzi wrote:
> > >>>> On Dec 13, 9:58 am, landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>> Jobst, the Pedantic Lumberjack. The children's book writes itself.
> > >>>>> :-D-
>
> > >>> Bad Idea who? wrote:
> > >>>> . . . and dilettante engineer. The book is already written.
>
> > >> Tom Sherman °_° <twshermanREM...@THISsouthslope.net> wrote:
> > >>> So snipes the anonymous person.
>
> > > Ozark Bicycle wrote:
> > >> "Anonymity" does not diminish the truth of the statement.
>
> > > Two anonymous snipes. Must be true, then.
>
> > Ozark Bicycle is not that anonymous, since Carl Fogel wrote a
> > complaining letter to OB's parents.
>
> reading it. snip
So it's hereditary?
Ozark Bicycle
IMO, insulting Mr. and Mrs. Fogel is totally uncalled for. Young Carl
was probably dropped on his head at the hospital.
What happened to *you*, "Spike"?