"Grocery Getter" bike

[William Crowell]

During the 1973 gasoline crunch I assembled this 26"-wheel Royce Union girly bike to take grocery shopping after a neighbor gave it to me when he moved.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UHii79azD9rYiokPYzHo6tzfns5H2Dum/view?usp=sharing

I think this bike was built in the '60s. It has a steel cottered crank, 4 wire baskets with front and rear racks, and I added the hi-riser bars so it is built for comfort, not for speed. The frame seems to be quite well made. (I think I've heard somewhere that Royce Union frames were pretty good; opinions?) It can carry two large ("40-lb.") bags of groceries in the back and two smaller ("35-lb.") bags in front; that's a lot of groceries!

I haven't ridden this bike in years because gas has been readily available and I do like to drive my cars to go shopping. I probably should repurpose this bike somehow. Any suggestions? Maybe it could be my guinea pig sandblast frame, to see whether my sandblasting technique destroys too many frame details. Then again, I could always tie a broom handle across the frame as a fake top tube, like we used to do when I was a kid, in order to avoid being embarrassed by riding a girl's bike. As if I care at my age.

[Tom Kunich]

I have a touring/grocery bike as well. I consider it a POS since it is a steel bike lugged with bar end shifters that only people that can't ride like to use. But the bike was built to tour with and in that regard where performance is focused on carrying weight it is acceptable.

[Tom Kunich]

Around here one of the most important things on a grocery bike is a large and strong lock. You have to go into the store and if your bike isn't pinned solidly to something it won't be there when you come out. This will soon be coming to Frank's town as the love of his life, Biden, continues to secretly in the dead of night send criminals into his town. And he thinks that my place is a hell hole. One can only imagine what he will have to say when he is afraid to go on a bicycle ride.

[AMuzi]

The rest of the world take our bike inside or, where that's
not possible, shops elsewhere.
http://www.yellowjersey.org/877/pumpkjul.jpg

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Frank Krygowski]

On 2/8/2022 9:55 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> Around here one of the most important things on a grocery bike is a large and strong lock. You have to go into the store and if your bike isn't pinned solidly to something it won't be there when you come out. This will soon be coming to Frank's town as the love of his life, Biden, continues to secretly in the dead of night send criminals into his town. And he thinks that my place is a hell hole. One can only imagine what he will have to say when he is afraid to go on a bicycle ride.

Tom, we frequently ride to the grocery store. We don't even lock our
bikes. The most we've ever done is jam something like this into the
front brake lever:
https://randalputnam.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/sb.jpg

Can you please give me a specific date you think our pleasant and safe
community will turn into your hellhole? When that date arrives, I'd like
to update everyone on the accuracy of your prediction. Surely you'd like
that!


--
- Frank Krygowski

[sms]

On 2/8/2022 9:38 AM, AMuzi wrote:

<snip>

> The rest of the world take our bike inside or, where that's not
> possible, shops elsewhere.
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/877/pumpkjul.jpg

Depends where you live. In my area you can park a bike in front of a
store and with a decent lock, even just a cable lock, it'll still be
there when you come out. Or you can take it into the store. However if
you park at some public places, like our library, you'll either want a
really good lock or you can use the Bikeep system
<https://walkbikecupertino.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/library-bike-racks-Bikeep.jpg>.

I have a "grocery-getter" bike with racks and such to ride to the store
because it's more practical than a road bike. I can also Bromp to the
store and put the bicycle into the shopping cart.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

I had to blow up the picture of the headtube badge. But under the single star at the bottom of the headtube, it has "Made in Japan". I think the last word is Japan. Correct? I would assume Royce Union is English during the 1950s-1960s. But am I incorrect?

[William Crowell]

Right, Russell, that's what it says. It sure looks like a pretty decent frame.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 2/8/2022 12:38 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> The rest of the world take our bike inside or, where that's not
> possible, shops elsewhere.
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/877/pumpkjul.jpg

When commuting by bike, I've almost always been able to take my bike
into the workplace. The only exception was a year-long temporary
assignment that was something like 30 miles away - too far to bike
anyway. They had a guard at the gate who checked ID passes each morning,
so were pretty strict in general.

I did ride there on Bike To Work Day. I wasn't allowed to take the bike
in, but the guard was happy to keep an eye on the bike for me.

I remember wondering about this issue when I started teaching at this
university. Another faculty member who also rode to work advised me
"Don't ask! Just do it!" And of course he was right.

However, another faculty friend had a son who liked to bike to school.
For whatever reason, the campus security guy would not let him stash his
bike in his father's office. I think the logic was something like "If we
let one student take his bike indoors, all the other students will want
to do that."

But I'm a big fan of asking forgiveness - if necessary - instead of
permission.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[William Crowell]

Frank, I really have a wild hair up my buttocks about workout gyms. Usually they not only won't let you bring your bike inside, but they also object to your keeping a large lock and chain on the premises. I decided not to tolerate this kind of disrespect for the customer because it happened when I inquired about membership at 2 gyms around here. So I decided to forego the gym workout and just ride my bike instead. The devil may take the dambed gyms, as far as I am concerned. I guess I just don't need to get buffed that badly after all.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

In my democrat-run hellhole we don't lock our house or cars. In the 25 years I've been living here the only incident was about 15 years ago, when a neighbors kid down the street went into a bunch of the other unlocked cars in my neighborhood and stole loose change. One of my neighbors happened to see him in the act, turned on the porch light, then called his parents. They dragged him around the next day, made him give all the change back, and said he was available for the rest of the summer to mow my lawn for free.

[William Crowell]

Andrew, can you enlighten us at all about Royce Union bicycles?

[William Crowell]

You're lucky that the kid's parents were both on the same page with his punishment. These days the problem is that families are so unstable, and the parents are so busy sniping at each other, that they can't present a united front to their child, and the kid learns to exploit it and avoid the punishment.

[Ralph Barone]

I think that parking a bicycle outside of a gym is sending the message “Why
are you paying money to sweat indoors when you could sweat outside for
free.” No wonder they didn’t like you.

[Frank Krygowski]

I've never been a gym rat, but I recall watching someone drive around
and around a gym parking lot waiting to get a parking place close to the
door.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

Not really. They were sold in general merchandise stores,
not LBS, likely a USA brand badged on various bicycles as
I've seen examples very different from one another.

Aha! A web search shows that's exactly it:
https://www.reddit.com/r/bicycleculture/comments/i9sy2d/royce_union_history/

[Tom Kunich]

They were mass market bikes that originated in the US but when production got cheaper in Japan that's where they were produced.

[John B.]

Really Tom? You need a big strong lock in America?

Thank God I live in this little, primitive, country where you can ride
your bike to the market without a lock.

And before you reply, yes, I do see them. Every morning, usually the
older generation shopping for the days groceries.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

>> the message “Why

>> are you paying money to sweat indoors when you could sweat
>> outside for

>> free.†No wonder they didn’t like you.

>
> I've never been a gym rat, but I recall watching someone
> drive around and around a gym parking lot waiting to get a
> parking place close to the door.
>

That might be pathetic or, as happened to people I know,
driver may have been recovering from an injury with walking
impairment, on his way to cycle rehab. I don't know.

[Tom Kunich]

When my C40 crashed me into that ditch, I was barely walking and my friend came back and discovered me limping down the hill. That put me into physical therapy for a month and I had to park next to the door to make it to the elevator to get up to the third floor where the exercise machines were. Can't say I would buy another bike like that C40 with that thin carbon fork. Do you suppose that is where they got the idea for "compliance"?

[Roger Merriman]

My commute bike has D lock and cable, this said I don’t use it often but at
home. I do live in London which has some safe and some not so safe areas.

I do have a cafe lock for the MTB/Gravel bike which is handy for make sure
no one just walks away with it!

Roger Merriman

[Frank Krygowski]

I suppose that's possible, thanks. I should try to be less judgmental.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[sms]

On 2/8/2022 3:59 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:

<snip>

> My commute bike has D lock and cable, this said I don’t use it often but at
> home. I do live in London which has some safe and some not so safe areas.

<snip>

Same in most places. Property crime rates vary greatly among California
cities
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_locations_by_crime_rate#Cities_and_other_agencies>/

[Frank Krygowski]

True story from our life down south: We had a house with a carport, not
a garage. Our son's new Huffy (ten speed, 24" wheels) was parked in the
carport, but we supplied him with a chain and combination lock to lock
it to the house structure.

One day the bike disappeared. Turned out he was locking it, so he
thought; but he only wound the chain around the crank, not through the
frame. We felt bad, at least until two days later.

That's when a young boy (maybe 8?) from an adjacent neighborhood came
walking over with the bike. He was being led by his slightly older
sister who had him firmly by the ear.

She made him apologize for stealing the bike, which he did. Then she
said "I told him, 'You can't steal _that_ bike! That's a GOOD bike!'"


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Rolf Mantel]

Am 08.02.2022 um 20:48 schrieb funkma...@hotmail.com:
> On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 1:01:24 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 2/8/2022 9:55 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>
>>> Around here one of the most important things on a grocery bike is a large and strong lock. You have to go into the store and if your bike isn't pinned solidly to something it won't be there when you come out. This will soon be coming to Frank's town as the love of his life, Biden, continues to secretly in the dead of night send criminals into his town. And he thinks that my place is a hell hole. One can only imagine what he will have to say when he is afraid to go on a bicycle ride.
>> Tom, we frequently ride to the grocery store. We don't even lock our
>> bikes. The most we've ever done is jam something like this into the
>> front brake lever:
>> https://randalputnam.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/sb.jpg
>>
>> Can you please give me a specific date you think our pleasant and safe
>> community will turn into your hellhole? When that date arrives, I'd like
>> to update everyone on the accuracy of your prediction. Surely you'd like
>> that!
>>
> In my democrat-run hellhole we don't lock our house or cars.

My sister lives in a place like that. One day, the police came around
for some other purpose, did not find anything illegal and then wrote a
€20 ticket for "abetting potential car theft"; You must keep your car
locked when it's parked on a public road.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

In the US they get around that by calling car theft "unauthorized use" in most cases - usually reserved for kids joy-riding with no intent on reselling or chopping the car. Still, it seems a bit ridiculous to mandate locking your car. If a legit car thief wants to get into the car, locking it is but a small deterrent.

[William Crowell]

Yes, this girl's bike is getting a bit rusty, so I think next time I sandblast, it really wouldn't be too much trouble to take it down to bare metal, inspect the lugs, see if the head tube stampings remain legible after blasting, fillet-braze in a top tube and paint it with single-stage urethane over epoxy primer.

When I was a kid there were constant apocryphal stories about a boy being given a free bike, and getting all excited over it, only to find out to his great disappointment that it was a girl's bike. Did this appear in the Beverly Cleary book, "Henry and Beezus" or something? I can't remember for sure. In any event, it was every boy's nightmare scenario.

[AMuzi]

On 2/9/2022 9:08 AM, William Crowell wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 5:53:59 AM UTC-8, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 3:52:28 AM UTC-5, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>>> Am 08.02.2022 um 20:48 schrieb funkma...@hotmail.com:
>>>> On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 1:01:24 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>> On 2/8/2022 9:55 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Around here one of the most important things on a grocery bike is a large and strong lock. You have to go into the store and if your bike isn't pinned solidly to something it won't be there when you come out. This will soon be coming to Frank's town as the love of his life, Biden, continues to secretly in the dead of night send criminals into his town. And he thinks that my place is a hell hole. One can only imagine what he will have to say when he is afraid to go on a bicycle ride.
>>>>> Tom, we frequently ride to the grocery store. We don't even lock our
>>>>> bikes. The most we've ever done is jam something like this into the
>>>>> front brake lever:
>>>>> https://randalputnam.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/sb.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> Can you please give me a specific date you think our pleasant and safe
>>>>> community will turn into your hellhole? When that date arrives, I'd like
>>>>> to update everyone on the accuracy of your prediction. Surely you'd like
>>>>> that!
>>>>>
>>>> In my democrat-run hellhole we don't lock our house or cars.
>>> My sister lives in a place like that. One day, the police came around
>>> for some other purpose, did not find anything illegal and then wrote a

>>> €20 ticket for "abetting potential car theft"; You must keep your car

>>> locked when it's parked on a public road.
>> In the US they get around that by calling car theft "unauthorized use" in most cases - usually reserved for kids joy-riding with no intent on reselling or chopping the car. Still, it seems a bit ridiculous to mandate locking your car. If a legit car thief wants to get into the car, locking it is but a small deterrent.
> Yes, this girl's bike is getting a bit rusty, so I think next time I sandblast, it really wouldn't be too much trouble to take it down to bare metal, inspect the lugs, see if the head tube stampings remain legible after blasting, fillet-braze in a top tube and paint it with single-stage urethane over epoxy primer.
>
> When I was a kid there were constant apocryphal stories about a boy being given a free bike, and getting all excited over it, only to find out to his great disappointment that it was a girl's bike. Did this appear in the Beverly Cleary book, "Henry and Beezus" or something? I can't remember for sure. In any event, it was every boy's nightmare scenario.
>

On most of this earth, urban bicycles with open frame are
ridden by men and woman equally.

https://thisbigcity.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/osaka-bicycle.jpg

They don't look girlish, they look urban if not urbane.

[Lou Holtman]

The very popular ‘omafiets’ here is considered more or less an unisex bike. If it wasn’t for the stiffness the diamant frame is much less convenient. The bike I used as a paperboy was a ‘omafiets’. Very easy to hop off and on. It shimmyed like hell with full panniers. But that was fun. You wack the handlebar and there it went.

Lou

[Tom Kunich]

Scharf, simply continue to make your comments from a point of ignorance. Los Gatos is a rich are and over 600 property crimes, any of which could lead to acts of violence in a town of 30,000 is a HUGE crime rate in that sort of area. Going down the list for California it is plain to see that the Democrats have decided that the deader the people in their states are the better off their Democrat politicians are. This is exactly why people with money are leaving and taking their businesses with them.

Why don't you try to pass off the bullshit that crime was higher in the 1990's when the population was much smaller and then pretend that crime has been going down as the population in California exploded. Most people are honest and criminals are a limited part of the population. Or were until Gavin Loathsome took over.

[Tom Kunich]

Transportation cycling in most of the world is rather foreign to the US marketplace.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 2/9/2022 10:42 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> On most of this earth, urban bicycles with open frame are ridden by men
> and woman equally.
>
> https://thisbigcity.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/osaka-bicycle.jpg
>
> They don't look girlish, they look urban if not urbane.

My wife and I ride near-identical versions of this:
https://a4a6x6h8.stackpathcdn.com/folding-bikes/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/2022-NWT-Models-4.jpg

I don't know about "urban" or "urbane." To me, it looks pretty odd. But
it works pretty well!


--
- Frank Krygowski

[John B.]

On Wed, 09 Feb 2022 09:42:30 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 2/9/2022 9:08 AM, William Crowell wrote:
>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 5:53:59 AM UTC-8, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 3:52:28 AM UTC-5, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>>>> Am 08.02.2022 um 20:48 schrieb funkma...@hotmail.com:
>>>>> On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 1:01:24 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/8/2022 9:55 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Around here one of the most important things on a grocery bike is a large and strong lock. You have to go into the store and if your bike isn't pinned solidly to something it won't be there when you come out. This will soon be coming to Frank's town as the love of his life, Biden, continues to secretly in the dead of night send criminals into his town. And he thinks that my place is a hell hole. One can only imagine what he will have to say when he is afraid to go on a bicycle ride.
>>>>>> Tom, we frequently ride to the grocery store. We don't even lock our
>>>>>> bikes. The most we've ever done is jam something like this into the
>>>>>> front brake lever:
>>>>>> https://randalputnam.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/sb.jpg
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can you please give me a specific date you think our pleasant and safe
>>>>>> community will turn into your hellhole? When that date arrives, I'd like
>>>>>> to update everyone on the accuracy of your prediction. Surely you'd like
>>>>>> that!
>>>>>>
>>>>> In my democrat-run hellhole we don't lock our house or cars.
>>>> My sister lives in a place like that. One day, the police came around
>>>> for some other purpose, did not find anything illegal and then wrote a

>>>> €20 ticket for "abetting potential car theft"; You must keep your car

>>>> locked when it's parked on a public road.
>>> In the US they get around that by calling car theft "unauthorized use" in most cases - usually reserved for kids joy-riding with no intent on reselling or chopping the car. Still, it seems a bit ridiculous to mandate locking your car. If a legit car thief wants to get into the car, locking it is but a small deterrent.
>> Yes, this girl's bike is getting a bit rusty, so I think next time I sandblast, it really wouldn't be too much trouble to take it down to bare metal, inspect the lugs, see if the head tube stampings remain legible after blasting, fillet-braze in a top tube and paint it with single-stage urethane over epoxy primer.
>>
>> When I was a kid there were constant apocryphal stories about a boy being given a free bike, and getting all excited over it, only to find out to his great disappointment that it was a girl's bike. Did this appear in the Beverly Cleary book, "Henry and Beezus" or something? I can't remember for sure. In any event, it was every boy's nightmare scenario.
>>
>
>On most of this earth, urban bicycles with open frame are
>ridden by men and woman equally.
>
>https://thisbigcity.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/osaka-bicycle.jpg
>
>They don't look girlish, they look urban if not urbane.

Well, when you have the big basket on the front forks and the beer
case strapped on the back it is damned hard to swing your leg over all
that so a "girls bike" is far more practical (:-)

And over here, at least, it is usually the older generation riding to
the market for the daily provisions and as one ages the joints just
aren't as limber as the used to be (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 2:42:53 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
>
> Well, when you have the big basket on the front forks and the beer
> case strapped on the back it is damned hard to swing your leg over all
> that so a "girls bike" is far more practical (:-)
>
> And over here, at least, it is usually the older generation riding to
> the market for the daily provisions and as one ages the joints just
> aren't as limber as the used to be (:-)

My wife and I do a lot of our riding on our tandem. She's begun to have some trouble
swinging her leg high enough to clear a bike's saddle, but it's not a problem on the
tandem. I mount first and steady the bike. She can then put her left foot on the pedal at the
bottom, raising her up a few inches and making that swing easier. I suppose in future years
we can do the same while placing the cranks horizontal instead of vertical, gaining more
advantage if needed.

But for me in the front (or "captain") position, there's no such easy option. I've got to
have my left foot on the ground as kick my leg over my saddle. Or I can use the other
tandem captain's option, to swing my leg forward over the handlebars. (That has the option
of never accidentally kicking my stoker.) But either method requires a fair amount of
flexibility. Fortunately, I haven't yet run into a problem with that.

- Frank Krygowski

[John B.]

But Frank, based on the song Daisy Bell, which seems to date to 1892,
isn't the "girl" supposed to be "in the front"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Daisybell.jpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w98l2EFR6dE
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

Those were the days! It gave the guys a nice view. ;-)

- Frank Krygowski

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 1:22:55 PM UTC-6, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 2/8/2022 12:38 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> >
> > The rest of the world take our bike inside or, where that's not
> > possible, shops elsewhere.
> > http://www.yellowjersey.org/877/pumpkjul.jpg
> When commuting by bike, I've almost always been able to take my bike
> into the workplace.

I commuted to work at an office building. It was out in the suburbs. Casual business dress for employees. Polo style shirts and Docker pants. Roughly for the men. I was the only bike commuter in the building of about 200 or so people. I parked the bike outside in the small bike rack. Never even thought about bringing it inside. Of course it was also a single speed old 1970s bike so no need to even consider protecting it. Besides a cable lock during the work day. Building/bike had no people going by it to see, steal, the bike.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

Agree. Last year my brother locked the keys in the Ford 150. After screaming and moaning and cursing, he found a metal coat hanger, unwound it and stuck it down into the door by the glass and door handle. He was able to unlock the door. I would guess he saw someone where he used to work do the same thing after locking keys in the car. So unlocking cars seems to be fairly easy. With or without keys.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

I would guess "most of this earth" excludes the USA.

[John B.]

On Wed, 9 Feb 2022 19:57:25 -0800 (PST), "russell...@yahoo.com"
<ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 9:42:36 AM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 2/9/2022 9:08 AM, William Crowell wrote:
>> > On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 5:53:59 AM UTC-8, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> >> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 3:52:28 AM UTC-5, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>> >>> Am 08.02.2022 um 20:48 schrieb funkma...@hotmail.com:
>> >>>> On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 1:01:24 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> >>>>> On 2/8/2022 9:55 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Around here one of the most important things on a grocery bike is a large and strong lock. You have to go into the store and if your bike isn't pinned solidly to something it won't be there when you come out. This will soon be coming to Frank's town as the love of his life, Biden, continues to secretly in the dead of night send criminals into his town. And he thinks that my place is a hell hole. One can only imagine what he will have to say when he is afraid to go on a bicycle ride.
>> >>>>> Tom, we frequently ride to the grocery store. We don't even lock our
>> >>>>> bikes. The most we've ever done is jam something like this into the
>> >>>>> front brake lever:
>> >>>>> https://randalputnam.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/sb.jpg
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Can you please give me a specific date you think our pleasant and safe
>> >>>>> community will turn into your hellhole? When that date arrives, I'd like
>> >>>>> to update everyone on the accuracy of your prediction. Surely you'd like
>> >>>>> that!
>> >>>>>
>> >>>> In my democrat-run hellhole we don't lock our house or cars.
>> >>> My sister lives in a place like that. One day, the police came around
>> >>> for some other purpose, did not find anything illegal and then wrote a

>> >>> €20 ticket for "abetting potential car theft"; You must keep your car

>> >>> locked when it's parked on a public road.
>> >> In the US they get around that by calling car theft "unauthorized use" in most cases - usually reserved for kids joy-riding with no intent on reselling or chopping the car. Still, it seems a bit ridiculous to mandate locking your car. If a legit car thief wants to get into the car, locking it is but a small deterrent.
>> > Yes, this girl's bike is getting a bit rusty, so I think next time I sandblast, it really wouldn't be too much trouble to take it down to bare metal, inspect the lugs, see if the head tube stampings remain legible after blasting, fillet-braze in a top tube and paint it with single-stage urethane over epoxy primer.
>> >
>> > When I was a kid there were constant apocryphal stories about a boy being given a free bike, and getting all excited over it, only to find out to his great disappointment that it was a girl's bike. Did this appear in the Beverly Cleary book, "Henry and Beezus" or something? I can't remember for sure. In any event, it was every boy's nightmare scenario.
>> >
>> On most of this earth, urban bicycles with open frame are
>> ridden by men and woman equally.
>
>I would guess "most of this earth" excludes the USA.
>

Here, Thailand, I can't remember ever seeing a "urban" bike that had a
top tube. Sure we have guys all dressed up in the shorts, shoes and
jersey riding the multi speed bikes down the highway but a chap off to
the market for the groceries? Always a "step through".

--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

On 2/9/2022 9:54 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 7:53:59 AM UTC-6, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 3:52:28 AM UTC-5, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>>> Am 08.02.2022 um 20:48 schrieb funkma...@hotmail.com:
>>>> On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 1:01:24 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>> On 2/8/2022 9:55 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Around here one of the most important things on a grocery bike is a large and strong lock. You have to go into the store and if your bike isn't pinned solidly to something it won't be there when you come out. This will soon be coming to Frank's town as the love of his life, Biden, continues to secretly in the dead of night send criminals into his town. And he thinks that my place is a hell hole. One can only imagine what he will have to say when he is afraid to go on a bicycle ride.
>>>>> Tom, we frequently ride to the grocery store. We don't even lock our
>>>>> bikes. The most we've ever done is jam something like this into the
>>>>> front brake lever:
>>>>> https://randalputnam.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/sb.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> Can you please give me a specific date you think our pleasant and safe
>>>>> community will turn into your hellhole? When that date arrives, I'd like
>>>>> to update everyone on the accuracy of your prediction. Surely you'd like
>>>>> that!
>>>>>
>>>> In my democrat-run hellhole we don't lock our house or cars.
>>> My sister lives in a place like that. One day, the police came around
>>> for some other purpose, did not find anything illegal and then wrote a

>>> €20 ticket for "abetting potential car theft"; You must keep your car

>>> locked when it's parked on a public road.
>> In the US they get around that by calling car theft "unauthorized use" in most cases - usually reserved for kids joy-riding with no intent on reselling or chopping the car. Still, it seems a bit ridiculous to mandate locking your car. If a legit car thief wants to get into the car, locking it is but a small deterrent.
>
> Agree. Last year my brother locked the keys in the Ford 150. After screaming and moaning and cursing, he found a metal coat hanger, unwound it and stuck it down into the door by the glass and door handle. He was able to unlock the door. I would guess he saw someone where he used to work do the same thing after locking keys in the car. So unlocking cars seems to be fairly easy. With or without keys.
>

+1.
I once had a business partner who chronically locked herself
out of her CRX. After walking over to the library to peruse
the door diagram*, opening the locks was simple.

There is another effective deterrent:
https://tiremeetsroad.com/2020/06/12/would-be-carjackers-in-daly-city-thwarted-by-dodge-challenger-manual-transmission/

couple of those every week.

*pre InterWebs

[AMuzi]

On 2/9/2022 11:57 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Wed, 9 Feb 2022 19:57:25 -0800 (PST), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 9:42:36 AM UTC-6, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 2/9/2022 9:08 AM, William Crowell wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 5:53:59 AM UTC-8, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 3:52:28 AM UTC-5, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>>>>>> Am 08.02.2022 um 20:48 schrieb funkma...@hotmail.com:
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 1:01:24 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2/8/2022 9:55 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Around here one of the most important things on a grocery bike is a large and strong lock. You have to go into the store and if your bike isn't pinned solidly to something it won't be there when you come out. This will soon be coming to Frank's town as the love of his life, Biden, continues to secretly in the dead of night send criminals into his town. And he thinks that my place is a hell hole. One can only imagine what he will have to say when he is afraid to go on a bicycle ride.
>>>>>>>> Tom, we frequently ride to the grocery store. We don't even lock our
>>>>>>>> bikes. The most we've ever done is jam something like this into the
>>>>>>>> front brake lever:
>>>>>>>> https://randalputnam.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/sb.jpg
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Can you please give me a specific date you think our pleasant and safe
>>>>>>>> community will turn into your hellhole? When that date arrives, I'd like
>>>>>>>> to update everyone on the accuracy of your prediction. Surely you'd like
>>>>>>>> that!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In my democrat-run hellhole we don't lock our house or cars.
>>>>>> My sister lives in a place like that. One day, the police came around
>>>>>> for some other purpose, did not find anything illegal and then wrote a

>>>>>> €20 ticket for "abetting potential car theft"; You must keep your car

>>>>>> locked when it's parked on a public road.
>>>>> In the US they get around that by calling car theft "unauthorized use" in most cases - usually reserved for kids joy-riding with no intent on reselling or chopping the car. Still, it seems a bit ridiculous to mandate locking your car. If a legit car thief wants to get into the car, locking it is but a small deterrent.
>>>> Yes, this girl's bike is getting a bit rusty, so I think next time I sandblast, it really wouldn't be too much trouble to take it down to bare metal, inspect the lugs, see if the head tube stampings remain legible after blasting, fillet-braze in a top tube and paint it with single-stage urethane over epoxy primer.
>>>>
>>>> When I was a kid there were constant apocryphal stories about a boy being given a free bike, and getting all excited over it, only to find out to his great disappointment that it was a girl's bike. Did this appear in the Beverly Cleary book, "Henry and Beezus" or something? I can't remember for sure. In any event, it was every boy's nightmare scenario.
>>>>
>>> On most of this earth, urban bicycles with open frame are
>>> ridden by men and woman equally.
>>
>> I would guess "most of this earth" excludes the USA.
>>
> Here, Thailand, I can't remember ever seeing a "urban" bike that had a
> top tube. Sure we have guys all dressed up in the shorts, shoes and
> jersey riding the multi speed bikes down the highway but a chap off to
> the market for the groceries? Always a "step through".
>

+1
From the quotable Mr Berra, "You can see a lot by just
looking."

[Tom Kunich]

This is because most of the US workers live pretty far away from their jobs and the commute would be nearly impossible. But if I wanted to have an appointment with my neurologist, who is 25 miles away, before this lockdown bullshit, it would have been faster for me to commute to his office on a bicycle than fight the commute traffic that used to be going to Silicon Valley. Now Silicon Valley no longer exists.

[John B.]

On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 07:37:02 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 2/9/2022 9:54 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 7:53:59 AM UTC-6, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 3:52:28 AM UTC-5, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>>>> Am 08.02.2022 um 20:48 schrieb funkma...@hotmail.com:
>>>>> On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 1:01:24 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/8/2022 9:55 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Around here one of the most important things on a grocery bike is a large and strong lock. You have to go into the store and if your bike isn't pinned solidly to something it won't be there when you come out. This will soon be coming to Frank's town as the love of his life, Biden, continues to secretly in the dead of night send criminals into his town. And he thinks that my place is a hell hole. One can only imagine what he will have to say when he is afraid to go on a bicycle ride.
>>>>>> Tom, we frequently ride to the grocery store. We don't even lock our
>>>>>> bikes. The most we've ever done is jam something like this into the
>>>>>> front brake lever:
>>>>>> https://randalputnam.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/sb.jpg
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can you please give me a specific date you think our pleasant and safe
>>>>>> community will turn into your hellhole? When that date arrives, I'd like
>>>>>> to update everyone on the accuracy of your prediction. Surely you'd like
>>>>>> that!
>>>>>>
>>>>> In my democrat-run hellhole we don't lock our house or cars.
>>>> My sister lives in a place like that. One day, the police came around
>>>> for some other purpose, did not find anything illegal and then wrote a

>>>> €20 ticket for "abetting potential car theft"; You must keep your car

>>>> locked when it's parked on a public road.
>>> In the US they get around that by calling car theft "unauthorized use" in most cases - usually reserved for kids joy-riding with no intent on reselling or chopping the car. Still, it seems a bit ridiculous to mandate locking your car. If a legit car thief wants to get into the car, locking it is but a small deterrent.
>>
>> Agree. Last year my brother locked the keys in the Ford 150. After screaming and moaning and cursing, he found a metal coat hanger, unwound it and stuck it down into the door by the glass and door handle. He was able to unlock the door. I would guess he saw someone where he used to work do the same thing after locking keys in the car. So unlocking cars seems to be fairly easy. With or without keys.
>>
>
>+1.
>I once had a business partner who chronically locked herself
>out of her CRX. After walking over to the library to peruse
>the door diagram*, opening the locks was simple.
>
>There is another effective deterrent:
>https://tiremeetsroad.com/2020/06/12/would-be-carjackers-in-daly-city-thwarted-by-dodge-challenger-manual-transmission/
>
>couple of those every week.
>
>*pre InterWebs

Yes a very exotic and complex device - manual shift (:-)

It must be 30 years, or so, ago that I attempted to buy a new Toyota
sedan, in Bangkok, with manual shift and was told that "perhaps one
could be special ordered..."
I even have a 25 year old Isuzu pickup with auto.

Rather like the crank to start the motor. The younger generation is
too effete to manage (:-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

On 2/10/2022 4:40 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 07:37:02 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 2/9/2022 9:54 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 7:53:59 AM UTC-6, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 3:52:28 AM UTC-5, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>>>>> Am 08.02.2022 um 20:48 schrieb funkma...@hotmail.com:
>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 1:01:24 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2/8/2022 9:55 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Around here one of the most important things on a grocery bike is a large and strong lock. You have to go into the store and if your bike isn't pinned solidly to something it won't be there when you come out. This will soon be coming to Frank's town as the love of his life, Biden, continues to secretly in the dead of night send criminals into his town. And he thinks that my place is a hell hole. One can only imagine what he will have to say when he is afraid to go on a bicycle ride.
>>>>>>> Tom, we frequently ride to the grocery store. We don't even lock our
>>>>>>> bikes. The most we've ever done is jam something like this into the
>>>>>>> front brake lever:
>>>>>>> https://randalputnam.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/sb.jpg
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can you please give me a specific date you think our pleasant and safe
>>>>>>> community will turn into your hellhole? When that date arrives, I'd like
>>>>>>> to update everyone on the accuracy of your prediction. Surely you'd like
>>>>>>> that!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> In my democrat-run hellhole we don't lock our house or cars.
>>>>> My sister lives in a place like that. One day, the police came around
>>>>> for some other purpose, did not find anything illegal and then wrote a

>>>>> €20 ticket for "abetting potential car theft"; You must keep your car

>>>>> locked when it's parked on a public road.
>>>> In the US they get around that by calling car theft "unauthorized use" in most cases - usually reserved for kids joy-riding with no intent on reselling or chopping the car. Still, it seems a bit ridiculous to mandate locking your car. If a legit car thief wants to get into the car, locking it is but a small deterrent.
>>>
>>> Agree. Last year my brother locked the keys in the Ford 150. After screaming and moaning and cursing, he found a metal coat hanger, unwound it and stuck it down into the door by the glass and door handle. He was able to unlock the door. I would guess he saw someone where he used to work do the same thing after locking keys in the car. So unlocking cars seems to be fairly easy. With or without keys.
>>>
>>
>> +1.
>> I once had a business partner who chronically locked herself
>> out of her CRX. After walking over to the library to peruse
>> the door diagram*, opening the locks was simple.
>>
>> There is another effective deterrent:
>> https://tiremeetsroad.com/2020/06/12/would-be-carjackers-in-daly-city-thwarted-by-dodge-challenger-manual-transmission/
>>
>> couple of those every week.
>>
>> *pre InterWebs
>
> Yes a very exotic and complex device - manual shift (:-)
>
> It must be 30 years, or so, ago that I attempted to buy a new Toyota
> sedan, in Bangkok, with manual shift and was told that "perhaps one
> could be special ordered..."
> I even have a 25 year old Isuzu pickup with auto.
>
> Rather like the crank to start the motor. The younger generation is
> too effete to manage (:-)
>

Back to bicycles, same for adjustable-spring-tension rear
changers, pressed steel crank pins etc.

[John B.]

On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 17:32:40 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 2/10/2022 4:40 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 07:37:02 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2/9/2022 9:54 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 7:53:59 AM UTC-6, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 3:52:28 AM UTC-5, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>>>>>> Am 08.02.2022 um 20:48 schrieb funkma...@hotmail.com:
>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 1:01:24 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 2/8/2022 9:55 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Around here one of the most important things on a grocery bike is a large and strong lock. You have to go into the store and if your bike isn't pinned solidly to something it won't be there when you come out. This will soon be coming to Frank's town as the love of his life, Biden, continues to secretly in the dead of night send criminals into his town. And he thinks that my place is a hell hole. One can only imagine what he will have to say when he is afraid to go on a bicycle ride.
>>>>>>>> Tom, we frequently ride to the grocery store. We don't even lock our
>>>>>>>> bikes. The most we've ever done is jam something like this into the
>>>>>>>> front brake lever:
>>>>>>>> https://randalputnam.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/sb.jpg
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Can you please give me a specific date you think our pleasant and safe
>>>>>>>> community will turn into your hellhole? When that date arrives, I'd like
>>>>>>>> to update everyone on the accuracy of your prediction. Surely you'd like
>>>>>>>> that!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In my democrat-run hellhole we don't lock our house or cars.
>>>>>> My sister lives in a place like that. One day, the police came around
>>>>>> for some other purpose, did not find anything illegal and then wrote a

>>>>>> €20 ticket for "abetting potential car theft"; You must keep your car

>>>>>> locked when it's parked on a public road.
>>>>> In the US they get around that by calling car theft "unauthorized use" in most cases - usually reserved for kids joy-riding with no intent on reselling or chopping the car. Still, it seems a bit ridiculous to mandate locking your car. If a legit car thief wants to get into the car, locking it is but a small deterrent.
>>>>
>>>> Agree. Last year my brother locked the keys in the Ford 150. After screaming and moaning and cursing, he found a metal coat hanger, unwound it and stuck it down into the door by the glass and door handle. He was able to unlock the door. I would guess he saw someone where he used to work do the same thing after locking keys in the car. So unlocking cars seems to be fairly easy. With or without keys.
>>>>
>>>
>>> +1.
>>> I once had a business partner who chronically locked herself
>>> out of her CRX. After walking over to the library to peruse
>>> the door diagram*, opening the locks was simple.
>>>
>>> There is another effective deterrent:
>>> https://tiremeetsroad.com/2020/06/12/would-be-carjackers-in-daly-city-thwarted-by-dodge-challenger-manual-transmission/
>>>
>>> couple of those every week.
>>>
>>> *pre InterWebs
>>
>> Yes a very exotic and complex device - manual shift (:-)
>>
>> It must be 30 years, or so, ago that I attempted to buy a new Toyota
>> sedan, in Bangkok, with manual shift and was told that "perhaps one
>> could be special ordered..."
>> I even have a 25 year old Isuzu pickup with auto.
>>
>> Rather like the crank to start the motor. The younger generation is
>> too effete to manage (:-)
>>
>
>Back to bicycles, same for adjustable-spring-tension rear
>changers, pressed steel crank pins etc.

Pressed steel crank pins? do you mean those flat sided tapered pins
that you drove in with a hammer and then tightened the retaining nut?
I never had one come loose but hammering them out usually ruined them.
One time use only (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

On 2/10/2022 7:51 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 17:32:40 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 2/10/2022 4:40 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 07:37:02 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/9/2022 9:54 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 7:53:59 AM UTC-6, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>>>> On Wednesday, February 9, 2022 at 3:52:28 AM UTC-5, Rolf Mantel wrote:
>>>>>>> Am 08.02.2022 um 20:48 schrieb funkma...@hotmail.com:
>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 1:01:24 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 2/8/2022 9:55 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Around here one of the most important things on a grocery bike is a large and strong lock. You have to go into the store and if your bike isn't pinned solidly to something it won't be there when you come out. This will soon be coming to Frank's town as the love of his life, Biden, continues to secretly in the dead of night send criminals into his town. And he thinks that my place is a hell hole. One can only imagine what he will have to say when he is afraid to go on a bicycle ride.
>>>>>>>>> Tom, we frequently ride to the grocery store. We don't even lock our
>>>>>>>>> bikes. The most we've ever done is jam something like this into the
>>>>>>>>> front brake lever:
>>>>>>>>> https://randalputnam.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/sb.jpg
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Can you please give me a specific date you think our pleasant and safe
>>>>>>>>> community will turn into your hellhole? When that date arrives, I'd like
>>>>>>>>> to update everyone on the accuracy of your prediction. Surely you'd like
>>>>>>>>> that!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In my democrat-run hellhole we don't lock our house or cars.
>>>>>>> My sister lives in a place like that. One day, the police came around
>>>>>>> for some other purpose, did not find anything illegal and then wrote a

>>>>>>> €20 ticket for "abetting potential car theft"; You must keep your car

>>>>>>> locked when it's parked on a public road.
>>>>>> In the US they get around that by calling car theft "unauthorized use" in most cases - usually reserved for kids joy-riding with no intent on reselling or chopping the car. Still, it seems a bit ridiculous to mandate locking your car. If a legit car thief wants to get into the car, locking it is but a small deterrent.
>>>>>
>>>>> Agree. Last year my brother locked the keys in the Ford 150. After screaming and moaning and cursing, he found a metal coat hanger, unwound it and stuck it down into the door by the glass and door handle. He was able to unlock the door. I would guess he saw someone where he used to work do the same thing after locking keys in the car. So unlocking cars seems to be fairly easy. With or without keys.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> +1.
>>>> I once had a business partner who chronically locked herself
>>>> out of her CRX. After walking over to the library to peruse
>>>> the door diagram*, opening the locks was simple.
>>>>
>>>> There is another effective deterrent:
>>>> https://tiremeetsroad.com/2020/06/12/would-be-carjackers-in-daly-city-thwarted-by-dodge-challenger-manual-transmission/
>>>>
>>>> couple of those every week.
>>>>
>>>> *pre InterWebs
>>>
>>> Yes a very exotic and complex device - manual shift (:-)
>>>
>>> It must be 30 years, or so, ago that I attempted to buy a new Toyota
>>> sedan, in Bangkok, with manual shift and was told that "perhaps one
>>> could be special ordered..."
>>> I even have a 25 year old Isuzu pickup with auto.
>>>
>>> Rather like the crank to start the motor. The younger generation is
>>> too effete to manage (:-)
>>>
>>
>> Back to bicycles, same for adjustable-spring-tension rear
>> changers, pressed steel crank pins etc.
>
> Pressed steel crank pins? do you mean those flat sided tapered pins
> that you drove in with a hammer and then tightened the retaining nut?
> I never had one come loose but hammering them out usually ruined them.
> One time use only (:-)
>

Doing that job consistently well is an art (with many
subtleties). Unlike the home amateur, I have to be correct
and complete the first time.

[Frank Krygowski]

I don't believe I've ever heard anyone claim those cotter pins were better than
the usual alternatives.

- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

Overall they are not. But as with other procedures discussed
in the thread (and synchronizing multiple carburetors) it's
mostly a lost art.

[William Crowell]

I remember, when I was a kid, trying to pound crank cotters out with a hammer, thereby learning the hard way that you need to use a press. And not only is it getting hard to find anyone who knows what a uni-syn is, it is difficult to find anyone to work on carburetors at all. I was therefore forced to learn more than I ever wanted to know about how to tune up my Porsche 356, and how to keep the Thermoquads working correctly on my Mopars.

[Tom Kunich]

So you take an example of Andrew saying that was a workable solution (which was also very cheap) and tell us he said that it was BETTER than newer splined and expensive solutions? You never cease to amaze.

[Tom Kunich]

Look has returned to the one-piece crankset. So it isn't as if the idea was bad - only the application.

[Frank Krygowski]

No, Tom, that's not at ALL what I said. Sheesh!

If your wife won't talk to you, is there some neighborhood kid who can help you understand
what you read?

If you can't afford to hire that help, I'm sure I'm not the only one who would be willing to
chip in. Just let us know.

- Frank Krygowski

[Tom Kunich]

Frank you don't even know what you said. You're the one who should ask your wife to explain to you what you write. Andrew never said nor hinted that tapered pin cranks were better than the modern alternative. He said that they were useable. So why did you ignorantly write "I don't believe I've ever heard anyone claim those cotter pins were better than the usual alternatives." Or is your use of English so poor that you don't even understand that?

[Frank Krygowski]

Can anyone here explain this matter to Tom? I can't bring myself to try.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Tom Kunich]

You misunderstood Andrew, made a stupid response and can't bring yourself to admit it. That seems to be your entire life in a nutshell.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

We could try to explain that you were simply making a conversational comment.
We could also try to explain the importance of the word 'usual' in that comment.
We could also try to explain that Andrew subsequently agreed with you when he responded with "Overall they are not. "
I think we all know however that it would be an effort in futility, no matter how many times or whomever did the explaining, to such an extent that it would reflect an Einsteinian definition of insanity directed back on whomever would try. The best we could hope for is that he wouldn't respond, sort of like the fact that he still hasn't acknowledged that there is no such thing as Special Campagnolo Non-Stretch Cables.

[John B.]

Multiple Carbs?.... Well, the training wheels I can understand but
multiple carbs? And then speeding down the sidewalk going Roarrrr,
Roarrrrr?

Missus OMally will take a broom to you.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

Are you saying that RBT's very own Walter Mitty Kunich is off and
running with another of his fantasies?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

You miss the magnitude of the problem. Ask anyone under 30
to sharpen a blade.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

In my much younger Motorhead days I dated a woman who was a rather talented hands on mechanic. She had a 1972 MGB convertible that she had mounted dual side-draft webers. Anyone who knows of these systems understands not only the linkage synchronization, but also the fact that they tended to foul regularly. She and I were going to a club in boston one night, and the car started acting up. Without hesitation she pulled over into a gas station, whipped out the tools and commenced to opening up the carburetors. I should mention at this point that this was 1982 and we were going clubbing, so she was wearing a leopard print minidress. It was quite a sight, with her bent over under the hood working on the engine. I remember a couple of guys walked by and looked with surprise at her leopard print backside over the fender and gave a look of disapproval at me in the passenger seat. I remember saying "Unless you guys know how to tear down a weber side draft I suggest you keep moving". Interesting side note - we dropped by a local speed-shop once to pick up a new set of brake rotors for her. One of the mechanics shook my hand and said (classic new england accent) "Shes the only woman I evah met that can catch second geah rubbah".

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

This isn't a case of Mitty-ism, just everyday run-of-the-mill abject stupidity

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

Sharpen a blade? I am not under 30, but I know how to sharpen all the blades I interact with. Lawnmower, chisel, hand plane, wood turning. All need sharpening. I generally use white aluminum oxide grinding wheels (8"x1"), sandpaper on a belt sander (4"x24") and sandpaper on a disk (8") grits from 80 up to 600, whetstones, diamond stones, strops. Unfortunately it seems everything that needs sharpening needs a different method to get it optimally sharpened. Lawnmower blade gets the belt sander. Chisels and planes get the disk sander and stones and strops. Turning tools get the grinding wheels. I don't sharpen knives. But I'd probably start them on the disk and finish them on the stones and strop.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

Tommy, just to explain things to you, not that it will do any good, but you are the one who talked about modern methods of attaching the crank arms and bottom bracket. YOU, YOu, You, you. Frank compared the hammer in pin method to other methods used at the same time the hammer in pin method was used. He questioned whether the hammer in pin method was better than other 1940s, 1950s methods of attaching crank arms to bottom brackets. I have seen pictures as depicted in the link prior in this thread, but I am unaware of how they worked or what else was being used at the time. I consider it irrelevant today. Kind of like how ancient matchlock rifles worked. Or even how flintlock rifles worked. Not relevant to today. YOU are the one who added in the pointless controversy of comparing hammer in cotter pins to modern, current ways of attaching cranks to bottom brackets. You, you, you.

[Frank Krygowski]

Um... You're not mistaking "carbs" for playing cards in one's spokes,
are you?

Andrew's talking about carburetors.

Those of us with boxer engines do have to keep multiple carburetors
synchronized. In my case, two of them.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

YOLO! Change the heads and add the other two!

[John B.]

On the other hand I've got a friend, about 80 years old I'd imagine,
and sending e-mail is a task that he has his daughter help him with
(:-)

But sharpening a knife or other edged device? Why, you just take them
to the knife sharpening shop, don't you (:-?)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

Sorry, Andrew, I already had one of those, with four carbs to sync.
I was referring to my BMW R75/5.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[John B.]

I had a MG-B with twin carbs, SU I think, and frankly I don't remember
a great deal of problems with them. From memory they were rather
sensitive to the lubricant used in the "piston assembly" (or whatever
you call it) but other then that I don't remember a lot of trouble.'

As for "boxer" - we called them "horizontal opposed" in airplanes. I
thought that the modern versions used direct fuel injection?


--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

Sad to say, I know grown men who throw away drill bits and
buy a new one because they cannot sharpen one. I'm not
making this up.

[AMuzi]

It's called a 'dashpot'.

Right you are. A Corvair flat-six (auto or aero cam) is not
a 'boxer'.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/there-s-a-big-difference-between-a-boxer-and-flat-engine-85305.html

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

???????????????
Well.......... Not that I throw away a drill bit. Even if it is super duper dull. I'd still keep it. But sharpening a drill bit, I've never done that. Never ever even really thought about it. I've heard about it. Thankfully, or unthankfully, my most used drill bits are the little ones. And I usually always break them before they become dull. Big bits you can actually sharpen aren't used by me too much. And I'm usually drilling wood so dulling isn't really an issue. With metal, dull bits would be obvious a lot quicker I imagine.

[Frank Krygowski]

On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 6:09:22 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
>
> Sad to say, I know grown men who throw away drill bits and
> buy a new one because they cannot sharpen one. I'm not
> making this up.

Heck, AFAIK I'm the only guy I hang around with who sharpens drills.

One guy I know came to visit me from his home 700+ miles away. He brought his
drill bits so I would sharpen them.

- Frank Krygowski

[Joy Beeson]

On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 07:55:00 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> But Frank, based on the song Daisy Bell, which seems to date to 1892,
> isn't the "girl" supposed to be "in the front"?
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Daisybell.jpg
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w98l2EFR6dE

Reminds me of a story I wrote in the sixties. I wish I could read
more of the series, but it's a very sixties story and I no longer
remember enough to make it authentic.

In one of the background details that never made it onto paper, a
genetically-engineered girl and her foster mother escape on a
custom-built tandem. The girl is eighteen, but appears to be ten at
most, and is also destined to be shorter than average when mature. She
is much stronger than her mother.

So in picking the captain, which matters more: mass or muscle?

Well, in writing that down for the first time I answered the question:
they have always kept a low profile, and a kidback tandem would draw
much less attention than a tandem that declares that the captain could
bench-press a truck.

But suppose that physics is all the matters: who is the captain?

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

[Frank Krygowski]

On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 6:15:14 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 2/11/2022 8:03 PM, John B. wrote:
> >
> > As for "boxer" - we called them "horizontal opposed" in airplanes. I
> > thought that the modern versions used direct fuel injection?
> >
> >

> Right you are. A Corvair flat-six (auto or aero cam) is not
> a 'boxer'.
>
> https://www.autoevolution.com/news/there-s-a-big-difference-between-a-boxer-and-flat-engine-85305.html

I'd forgotten that distinction. So Boxer is a subset of Flat engines.

- Frank Krygowski

[Joy Beeson]

On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 12:57:43 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Here, Thailand, I can't remember ever seeing a "urban" bike that had a
> top tube. Sure we have guys all dressed up in the shorts, shoes and
> jersey riding the multi speed bikes down the highway but a chap off to
> the market for the groceries? Always a "step through".

It's much easier to mount a step-through without losing control of the
groceries, but my last bike trip to a store was five miles each way,
and I hope, before spring, to ride to a grocery fifteen miles away.

So I ride a bike which I once accompanied from Albany, New York, to
Warsaw, Indiana. (Years later, the one I was riding lost a bushing in
the brake bridge, so we moved my components onto my spouse's frame.)

Thirty miles nowadays is equivalent to a hundred miles back then.

[Joy Beeson]

On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 17:40:23 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

> You miss the magnitude of the problem. Ask anyone under 30
> to sharpen a blade.

Rather a long time ago, I thought that I wasn't sharpening my pocket
knives correctly. I found a book called "Tools and their uses",
intended to teach raw ignorant city-feller army recruits the absolute
basics of hand tools. I eagerly turned to "pocket knives", and all it
said was that they should be sharpened when they need it.

So there must have been a time when everyone knew how to sharpen a
pocket knife.

[John B.]

I certainly believe you. Years ago I was in the shop on a Sunday,
probably doing some "home job" and a bloke from the Fire Station
wandered in. He says he wonders if we have a bolt, a "fat thread"
bolt.

Well, I was at a bit of a loss over "fat threads" so I just wheeled
out the "scrap box" and told him to see if he could find one. He
scratched around for a while and came up with a bolt and says "yup,
this'll work" and I took a look.... a 3/8"- 16 bolt. Of course I told
the lads in the shop the story on Monday and for a while the term "fat
thread" and "skinny thread" were quite popular in the Machine shop
(:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

Back when I was an apprentice boy we had a drill sharpening machine so
I never learned the art until I was in the Air force and "cross
trained" into the Machine Shop where the Shop Chief (who by the way
had done his apprenticeship at Union Twist Drill Co.) made everyone
practice until they could do it. And it does take some practice (:-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

Well... I might comment, from the viewpoint of some 50 years of
marriage, there must be a reason that some men refer to their wives as
"SWMBO" (:-)

And... to check my facts, I just went and asked my wife, "Wife! Who's
the boss in this family?" And she replied, "Well, of course you are
darling!", "Now get your dirty feet off that clean rug!". (:-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

[Andre Jute]

On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 5:38:08 PM UTC, AMuzi wrote:
> >
> The rest of the world take our bike inside or, where that's
> not possible, shops elsewhere.
> http://www.yellowjersey.org/877/pumpkjul.jpg

>
> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>

Or we just move to the friendly, crime-free countryside. Ireland is super if expensive, Australia is great, New Zealand and Canada are a bit cold but likable, rural France and the South of France just back from the narrow coastal strip (but watch out for the shark-''craftsmen" preying on foreigners) are good if you can learn to speak French like a native (not necessarily of those parts -- I speak a pretty snooty kind of French, but nobody ever reacted to it except a butcher in Boulogne, where we shopped when we lived in the Forest of Devres at the other end of the France, who said, "Not many Englishmen can learn to speak 16th Arrondissement so naturally."), parts of Tuscany are still not too crowded, Portugal but not Spain which is full of angloyobs and loud Germans, parts of South America settled by Germans after WW2 are superbly ordered (try Paraguay).
>
Andre Jute
Pity Americans are so at odds with one another. America used to be a very agreeable place.
>

[Andre Jute]

On Tuesday, February 8, 2022 at 2:55:51 PM UTC, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Around here one of the most important things on a grocery bike is a large and strong lock.
>
I ride a bike the price of a very nice preloved BMW to the shops and leave it standing outside, tied to nothing, and it's always there when I come out of the shop. I don't even carry a lock on my bike.
>
The main contributor to my bike security is the stem, called the n'lock. You turn the key and that unlocks the stem from the steerer tube inside the head tube. The front wheel flops over, the bike appears broken and is in fact unrideable.
>
My original description and photos of the n'lock are at
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=3930.0
More, including current supplier link, here:
http://thorncyclesforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=14207.0
>
Andre Jute
A little, a very little thought will suffice. -- John Maynard Keynes
>

[Andre Jute]

On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 1:22:49 PM UTC, AMuzi wrote:
>
>...as with other procedures discussed

> in the thread (and synchronizing multiple carburetors) it's
> mostly a lost art.

> --
> Andrew Muzi
> <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971
>

Wasn't much choice. You learned to work with multiple Webers and a stethoscope (all other carburetors being not as good or more complicated to set) or Kugelfischer fuel injection which was either on or off, hugely frustrating. Anyone who could set three SU carbs wasn't just a genius, he was Superman. -- AJ
>

[Andre Jute]

On Saturday, February 12, 2022 at 2:15:14 AM UTC, AMuzi wrote:
>
> Right you are. A Corvair flat-six (auto or aero cam) is not
> a 'boxer'.
>

Seems like a lost cause splitting hairs over boxers and horizontally opposed engines.
>
> https://www.autoevolution.com/news/there-s-a-big-difference-between-a-boxer-and-flat-engine-85305.html
>
Are these guys for real? My first Porsche was a 356. That was a boxer and so were a whole string of 911's that followed the 356 and a VW Westphalia (a deluxe Kombivan) into which I fitted a turbo-boxer engine from a 911 my girlfriend trashed, which I kept at our German office as a fastmoving meeting room on the autobahn. Both flat engines and boxers were commonplace cars, too. I had a Citroen GS in which you could set 90mph averages from the Fens to Tuscany overnight if you didn't mind a bit of oil on the windshield, which I'd only bought as a spare parts car for a GS Rotary I acquired in a mistaken moment of technofreakery (it broke three times in a row before I reached the end of the dealer's street and he offered to give my money back) and which I kept to fill in when none of my three SMs were cooperating; I gave the GS to a cleaner at my college who ran errands for me and he still drove when I returned a decade later, and in Australia I drove a very lively Alfa-Sud, also c1200cc (Slow Johnny will look up its capacity for us), as a courtesy car, and returned it back only reluctantly. -- AJ

[Tom Kunich]

Exactly why do you feel the need to show that not only do you have a lack of elementary use of numbers but also a total inability to understand the written language?

[Tom Kunich]

Frank did nothing of the kind. Perhaps since you've seen "pictures" you'd like to tell us what the crank attachment methods were in the 40's?

[Tom Kunich]

This is so common that it is hard to get drill bits made of properly hardened steel. They are using high carbon steel that crystalizes and break off. And you have to buy a new one rather than sharpening the old.

[Tom Kunich]

On Friday, February 11, 2022 at 8:10:10 PM UTC-8, Joy Beeson wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 17:40:23 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > You miss the magnitude of the problem. Ask anyone under 30
> > to sharpen a blade.
> Rather a long time ago, I thought that I wasn't sharpening my pocket
> knives correctly. I found a book called "Tools and their uses",
> intended to teach raw ignorant city-feller army recruits the absolute
> basics of hand tools. I eagerly turned to "pocket knives", and all it
> said was that they should be sharpened when they need it.
>
> So there must have been a time when everyone knew how to sharpen a
> pocket knife.

As an example of how things are now - I've been in machine shops where they don't even know what a whet stone is.

[Tom Kunich]

Seems as how his entire usefulness here is using Google and telling me I don't know what I'm talking about because he can't find any Google references.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 2/11/2022 11:00 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
>
>
> But suppose that physics is all the matters: who is the captain?

And while we're on the subject of tandems, captains and stokers, here's
one of my favorite poems:

SHOVELIN' COAL

There are those who think the tandem is the instrument sublime
For the serious cycle-tourist, and the man concerned with time.
It has drive and rolls much faster as it gobbles up the track,
But it's quite another matter to the guy who sits in back...shovelin'
coal.

But just look at the advantages with twice the power at hand,
And half the wind resistance as it travels o'er the land.
The weight is less than double. This alone gives peace of mind.
But it's still another matter to the guy who sits behind...shovelin'
coal.

Yes, the man up front is master. It is he who shifts the gears.
He decides when brakes are needed, and on top of this he steers.
He can go the wrong direction and wind up in Timbuktu;
But refuses any protest from the guy who's number two...shovelin' coal.

It's just like a locomotive, with the front man engineer,
He sits back and shouts instructions to the fireman in the rear.
It's the way to run a railroad. With a bike it's not so sweet
To the sweating, swearing fellow on the secondary seat...shovelin' coal.

True, the pilots work the throttles while their partners work the flaps.
They are barely more than slaves -- a society of saps.
Co-pilots do the labor. They are not supposed to feel.
It's likewise with the suckers above the rearward wheel...shovelin'
coal.

His view ahead is blank and to peek would be a sin;
So he can't see where he's going -- only places where he's been.
He would love to lean to starboard when to port they make a turn,
But such pleasure is verboten to the fellow in the stern...shovelin'
coal.

Yet there will be retribution on some future day in hell,
When all tandem frames have melted, and the tandem leaders yell.
In agony they writhe, and some mercy they request;
But the back men just keep doing the thing they've done the
best...shovelin' coal.

Tony Pranses

------------------------

More bike poetry is at
http://www.bicyclinglife.com/NewsAndViews/BikePoetry.htm


--
- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

Not that difficult. There used to be a Trident in every
neighborhood.

[AMuzi]

Drill rod materials have never been better or more
consistent and material choice is broad and cheap. Besides
which we have TiN and CrN coatings. Of all the things to
bitch about in the modern world ( and I do!) this is not one
of them.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 07:04:21 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>This is so common that it is hard to get drill bits made of properly hardened steel. They are using high carbon steel that crystalizes and break off. And you have to buy a new one rather than sharpening the old.

As usual, 100.0% wrong.

It's hard to get inferior drill bits. Most if not all of what I see
for sale is quite good quality. It is possible to find inferior drill
bits if you look hard. Some of the junk in the hardware bargain bin
probably qualifies. However, these don't "break off" when they fail.
They are soft and bend a little before breaking. If you have a drill
bit that "wobbles" from being bent, you have one of these.

You can also accidentally purchase drill bits that are made for
drilling in specialty material. Usually, these will have a strange
looking point, lip, or edge. M35 Bits made for drilling titanium,
cast iron, and stainless include cobalt in the recipe and tend to
break if abused.
<https://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=6169>
Note that titanium plated drill bits are harder than cobalt. You can
sharpen cobalt drill bits, but once the titanium layer is gone, forget
about sharpening the bit.

Most commodity drill bits are made from M2 tool steel:
<https://hudsontoolsteel.com/technical-data/steelM2>
<https://waldunsteel.com/products/m2-high-speed-steel/>
M2 is 0.85% carbon. "High Carbon" between 0.6 to 1.0% carbon:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_steel#Higher-carbon_steels>
which puts M2 in the middle of the range making all commodity drills
"high carbon steel".

Also, please note that *ALL* steels are crystals. The various types
are distinguished by their crystal structure.
"Steels - The Structure of Engineering Steels"
<https://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=399>
M2 high speed tool steels are already crystalline. Using such steels
do not crystallize the steel because it is are already crystallized.

There are drill bits that are listed as "high speed steel", which are
generally made only for drilling wood or plastic. Their major claim
to fame is the low price. For example:
<https://www.harborfreight.com/power-tools/drill-driver-bits/high-speed-steel-drill-bit-set-13-pc-61723.html>
These don't "break off" but rapidly become dull if used to drill
through metal.



--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[John B.]

One bloke says, "Ask anyone under 30 to sharpen a blade"

Another bloke says, "I am not under 30, but I know how to sharpen
blades"

And then tommy says, "you have a lack of elementary use of numbers but
also a total inability to understand the written language.

Tell us Tommy. Are you insane? Or just stupid?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 07:01:28 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich

And thus speaks the expert... who wasn't even born in 1940.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Tom Kunich]

I still have the synchronizers in my desk right now. They aren't good for anything since everyone had to have a set to use every couple of months or so. So they're as common as pork chops.

[Tom Kunich]

Jeff, you don't know one damn thing about quality. Who in the hell do you think you're kidding?

[John B.]

On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 07:04:21 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Tommy, you apparently suffer from some sort of terminal stupidity as I
buy "high speed steel" drill bits from just about any shop that I
patronize - Home Pro, for an example that is available in the U.S.

And before you get all wound up, no "high speed Steel" is not "high
carbon steel".
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 12:20:12 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

While I know that you are generalizing I would quibble with a couple
of statements. Cast iron, at least the commonly used term, refers to a
rather soft material, 150-200BH (Brinell hardness) to as high as
210-260 BH.
see http://www.iron-foundry.com/castings-hardness.html

And "High Speed Steel" does, or did, refer to a material commonly used
in steel cutting tools - drills, machine tool "bits", etc.
https://www.griggssteel.com/what-is-high-speed-steel/
--
Cheers,

John B.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

???????? And why did you write this response? In my post above the only numbers I use are to describe the grits and sizes of grinding wheel stones and sand paper belts. I think I wrote in fairly simple to understand sentences too. So your post is related to what?