BB Size for Campy Mirage Cranks
* * Chas
used with a 68mm BSC BB.
I think I've seen 111mm listed but I can't find the info anymore.
I want to use a Tange sealed bearing BB. they are available in 110mm and
113mm widths.
Chas.
A Muzi
use the Campagnolo 111 BB, about $5 more.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Donald Gillies
http://www.campagnolo.com/spares/spares07_B.pdf
But i see that although the catalogues specify the BB widths (111 mm
double, 115.5 mm triple), they no longer say if there is a drive-side
offset to the bottom brackets. Does anyone here have a list of the
offsets on the modern square-taper campy BB's (double and triple,
record/chorus and centaur/ACH/ACS) ?? Thanx,
- Don Gillies
San Diego, CA, USA
A Muzi
Modern BB sets are symmetric with few rare exceptions. When you see only
one dimension, overall length, assume symmetry.
* * Chas
"A Muzi" <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
news:12t9l0l...@corp.supernews.com...
This is an older square taper Mirage.
I've heard bad things about the older Campy sealed bearing BBs.
Chas.
Qui si parla Campagnolo
Inexpensive and long lasting..and the new for 2006, with 3 bearings,
Centaur is even better...111mm, ISO taper.
russell...@yahoo.com
Rare exceptions? 111mm is the length of the Campagnolo triple bottom
brackets. But the Record and Chorus 111mm is symmetric or asymmetric
while the 111mm Mirage/Veloce/Centaur/AC-H/AC-S bottom bracket is the
opposite. They are both 111mm but they are not interchangeable. You
match the bottom bracket and crankset. Maybe its rare for Shimano but
its been this wasy for the past 10-15 years with Campagnolo.
russell...@yahoo.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
$14.95 before 10% coupon at Nashbar. 68x111mm English. ISO/
Campagnolo taper designed to fit Campagnolo/ISO taper cranks. Not JIS
taper like your Tange bottom bracket.
ligh...@gmail.com
> Inexpensive and long lasting..and the new for 2006, with 3 bearings,
> Centaur is even better...111mm, ISO taper.
You mean 2007, right?
Jim Higson
The 2007 BB is Ultra-torque, not square taper. I think 2006 is right - IIRC,
that's the one that uses the cassette lockring tool instead of the six
notch tool.
A Muzi
>>> What width BB does a Campy Mirage double CR crankset require. This
> will be
>>> used with a 68mm BSC BB.
>> I think I've seen 111mm listed but I can't find the info anymore.
>>> I want to use a Tange sealed bearing BB. they are available in 110mm
> and
>>> 113mm widths.
> "A Muzi" <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> use the Campagnolo 111 BB, about $5 more.
* * Chas wrote:
> This is an older square taper Mirage.
> I've heard bad things about the older Campy sealed bearing BBs.
Really? What exactly? We haven't.
Nice product overall. Sure, the solid spindle version is a bit heavier.
These are also sold under other names such as "Real" with a good history.
* * Chas
I remember reading negative comments about problems with the early Campy
sealed bearing BB cartridges in this NG and other places. I don't recall
the details because they didn't apply to anything that I was using at the
time.
Glad to hear that this is a good product. I'm putting together an old
beater bike for riding in inclement weather, i.e. it might rain or it just
rained. ;-)
I'd go with a Phil BB but this is a very low budget project. I forgot that
Campy changed from ISO to their own taper ~1994.
The Campy BB means just another one use tool. I have a drawer full of
these kinds of tools.
Chas.
Ozark Bicycle
Does that drawer have a Shimano freewheel tool lurking inside?
* * Chas
<russell...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1171642459.4...@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 15, 11:54 pm, "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
> > "A Muzi" <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
> > > What width BB does a Campy Mirage double CR crankset require.
> > > This will be used with a 68mm BSC BB.
> > > I think I've seen 111mm listed but I can't find the info anymore.
> > > I want to use a Tange sealed bearing BB. they are available in
110mm
> > > and 113mm widths.
> >
> > use the Campagnolo 111 BB, about $5 more.
> >
> >
> This is an older square taper Mirage.
> I've heard bad things about the older Campy sealed bearing BBs.
>
> Chas.
>
>
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=&subcategory=&brand=1112&sku=4728&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=Shop%20by%20Brand%3A%20Campagnolo
>
> $14.95 before 10% coupon at Nashbar. 68x111mm English. ISO/
> Campagnolo taper designed to fit Campagnolo/ISO taper cranks. Not JIS
> taper like your Tange bottom bracket.
>
Thanks for reminding me about the Campy/ISO taper differences. This is the
first crank with the Campy tapers that I've acquired.
I've been using Phil, Shimano, IRD and Tange BBs. I would have used a Phil
BB except this is a low budget beater bike project for winter riding, i.e.
it just rained or it might rain.
At the rate I'm going our rainy season will be over before I get this
thing on the road. ;-)
Chas.
* * Chas
"Ozark Bicycle" <bicycle...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote in message
news:1171654986....@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
Do you mean one of the old big ones that have flats on top of the splines?
If so, yes I have one.
Shimano's 34 tooth freewheels were a lot lighter than Suntour's because
they had spokes on all on the larger cogs instead of holes. Used them for
early MTB and off road.
This tool would somewhat work with the low end Maillard FWs.
Chas.
A Muzi
>>> It used to be possible to answer such questions online, here :
>>> http://www.campagnolo.com/spares/spares07_B.pdf
>>> But i see that although the catalogues specify the BB widths (111 mm
>>> double, 115.5 mm triple), they no longer say if there is a drive-side
>>> offset to the bottom brackets. Does anyone here have a list of the
>>> offsets on the modern square-taper campy BB's (double and triple,
>>> record/chorus and centaur/ACH/ACS) ?? Thanx,
> On Feb 15, 6:08 pm, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> Modern BB sets are symmetric with few rare exceptions. When you see only
>> one dimension, overall length, assume symmetry.
russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Rare exceptions? 111mm is the length of the Campagnolo triple bottom
> brackets. But the Record and Chorus 111mm is symmetric or asymmetric
> while the 111mm Mirage/Veloce/Centaur/AC-H/AC-S bottom bracket is the
> opposite. They are both 111mm but they are not interchangeable. You
> match the bottom bracket and crankset. Maybe its rare for Shimano but
> its been this wasy for the past 10-15 years with Campagnolo.
I think we agree.
We agree there's a CHR-REC, currently produced, asymmetric 111 SqT BB*.
That's unusual today. How unusual? Name another one.
Not Tange. Not Shimano. Not FUNN. Not IRD. Not Sugino. Not SRAM.
Yes, Phil Wood will make up anything your heart desires but I'd consider
that custom. So the Chorus/Record is so rare it may be unique. I wrote
that and you apparently agree, yes?
[*] I really can't see or measure the left-right differential. They look
symmetric to me. Campagnolo-USA assures us they are offset. Is that why
you wrote "symmetric or asymmetric"?? I'm not excited about the putative
'asymmetry'. Classic offset spindles have the potential to be 'flipped'
for various chainline adjustments. The 111 CHR-REC won't give you a
useful difference. With their 'triple bearing' you could only flip the
Italian one anyway. And then to no avail.
--
Andrew Muzi
Ozark Bicycle
> "Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote in message
No, I mean the last generation tool. The one that will work with the
DA 7400 FWs and the currently available Shimano 7SP FWs.
russell...@yahoo.com
> <russellseat...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1171642459.4...@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 15, 11:54 pm, "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
> > > "A Muzi" <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
> > > > * * Chas wrote:
> > > > What width BB does a Campy Mirage double CR crankset require.
> > > > This will be used with a 68mm BSC BB.
> > > > I think I've seen 111mm listed but I can't find the info anymore.
> > > > I want to use a Tange sealed bearing BB. they are available in
> 110mm
> > > > and 113mm widths.
>
> > > use the Campagnolo 111 BB, about $5 more.
>
> > > Andrew Muzi
> > This is an older square taper Mirage.
> > I've heard bad things about the older Campy sealed bearing BBs.
>
> > Chas.
>
>
>
>
> > $14.95 before 10% coupon at Nashbar. 68x111mm English. ISO/
> > Campagnolo taper designed to fit Campagnolo/ISO taper cranks. Not JIS
> > taper like your Tange bottom bracket.
>
> Thanks for reminding me about the Campy/ISO taper differences. This is the
> first crank with the Campy tapers that I've acquired.
>
> I've been using Phil, Shimano, IRD and Tange BBs. I would have used a Phil
> BB except this is a low budget beater bike project for winter riding, i.e.
> it just rained or it might rain.
>
> At the rate I'm going our rainy season will be over before I get this
> thing on the road. ;-)
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
If its an infrequently ridden beater bike made up with whatever
components you can find, then the taper difference might not mean
much. Crank goes on a little more or less than its supposed to and
may or may not destroy the crank sooner or later than normal. If you
already have the JIS bottom brackets laying around, use them. If you
are buying a new bottom bracket, then might as well get the Campagnolo/
ISO one. Its only $15.
russell...@yahoo.com
> >> Donald Gillies wrote:
> >>> It used to be possible to answer such questions online, here :
> >>> http://www.campagnolo.com/spares/spares07_B.pdf
> >>> But i see that although the catalogues specify the BB widths (111 mm
> >>> double, 115.5 mm triple), they no longer say if there is a drive-side
> >>> offset to the bottom brackets. Does anyone here have a list of the
> >>> offsets on the modern square-taper campy BB's (double and triple,
> >>> record/chorus and centaur/ACH/ACS) ?? Thanx,
> > On Feb 15, 6:08 pm, A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> >> Modern BB sets are symmetric with few rare exceptions. When you see only
> >> one dimension, overall length, assume symmetry.
> > Rare exceptions? 111mm is the length of the Campagnolo triple bottom
> > brackets. But the Record and Chorus 111mm is symmetric or asymmetric
> > while the 111mm Mirage/Veloce/Centaur/AC-H/AC-S bottom bracket is the
> > opposite. They are both 111mm but they are not interchangeable. You
> > match the bottom bracket and crankset. Maybe its rare for Shimano but
> > its been this wasy for the past 10-15 years with Campagnolo.
>
> I think we agree.
> We agree there's a CHR-REC, currently produced, asymmetric 111 SqT BB*.
>
> That's unusual today. How unusual? Name another one.
>
> Not Tange. Not Shimano. Not FUNN. Not IRD. Not Sugino. Not SRAM.
> Yes, Phil Wood will make up anything your heart desires but I'd consider
> that custom. So the Chorus/Record is so rare it may be unique. I wrote
> that and you apparently agree, yes?
We have a different definition of rare. By your definition the Mazda
RX-7 is rare. Or at least the rotary engine version RX-7. It was the
only commercially produced car with a rotary engine. At least for
many decades. I saw them frequently enough that I did not consider
them too rare. Haven't looked but I bet there are a few of them
listed in the classifieds today. I suspect Madison still has more
than a few on the streets. If you see something every day or at least
every week and can buy it for not a lot of money every day of the
week, is it rare? Just because its the only one made a certain way
does not mean its rare. Are Brooks saddles rare because they are the
only leather tensioned saddle still made? Actually there may be the
Lepper brand still around.
On the Triple Bypass last year I saw quite a few Record and Chorus
triples using the supposedly rare 111mm asymmetric bottom bracket.
Hard to think of it as rare.
>
> [*] I really can't see or measure the left-right differential. They look
> symmetric to me. Campagnolo-USA assures us they are offset. Is that why
> you wrote "symmetric or asymmetric"?? I'm not excited about the putative
> 'asymmetry'. Classic offset spindles have the potential to be 'flipped'
> for various chainline adjustments. The 111 CHR-REC won't give you a
> useful difference. With their 'triple bearing' you could only flip the
> Italian one anyway. And then to no avail.
> --
> Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
> Open every day since 1 April, 1971- Hide quoted text -
* * Chas
news:1171660557....@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 16, 1:50 pm, "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
> > <russellseat...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >
> > Thanks for reminding me about the Campy/ISO taper differences. This is
the
> > first crank with the Campy tapers that I've acquired.
> >
> > I've been using Phil, Shimano, IRD and Tange BBs. I would have used a
Phil
> > BB except this is a low budget beater bike project for winter riding,
i.e.
> > it just rained or it might rain.
> >
> > At the rate I'm going our rainy season will be over before I get this
> > thing on the road. ;-)
> >
> > Chas.- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> If its an infrequently ridden beater bike made up with whatever
> components you can find, then the taper difference might not mean
> much. Crank goes on a little more or less than its supposed to and
> may or may not destroy the crank sooner or later than normal. If you
> already have the JIS bottom brackets laying around, use them. If you
> are buying a new bottom bracket, then might as well get the Campagnolo/
> ISO one. Its only $15.
>
Thanks, our rainy season lasts from November through April but last month
it didn't rain much at all.
I paid $25 for the crankset and chainrings.
Chas.
* * Chas
> On Feb 16, 2:21 pm, "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
> > "Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote in
message
> > > Does that drawer have a Shimano freewheel tool lurking inside?
> >
> > Do you mean one of the old big ones that have flats on top of the
splines?
>
> No, I mean the last generation tool. The one that will work with the
> DA 7400 FWs and the currently available Shimano 7SP FWs.
>
except for those old Shimano 34 T beasts.
Chas.
A Muzi
>>>>> It used to be possible to answer such questions online, here :
>>>>> http://www.campagnolo.com/spares/spares07_B.pdf
>>>>> But i see that although the catalogues specify the BB widths (111 mm
>>>>> double, 115.5 mm triple), they no longer say if there is a drive-side
>>>>> offset to the bottom brackets. Does anyone here have a list of the
>>>>> offsets on the modern square-taper campy BB's (double and triple,
>>>>> record/chorus and centaur/ACH/ACS)?
> A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>> Modern BB sets are symmetric with few rare exceptions. When you see only
>>>> one dimension, overall length, assume symmetry.
>> russellseat...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> Rare exceptions? 111mm is the length of the Campagnolo triple bottom
>>> brackets. But the Record and Chorus 111mm is symmetric or asymmetric
>>> while the 111mm Mirage/Veloce/Centaur/AC-H/AC-S bottom bracket is the
>>> opposite. They are both 111mm but they are not interchangeable. You
>>> match the bottom bracket and crankset. Maybe its rare for Shimano but
>>> its been this wasy for the past 10-15 years with Campagnolo.
> A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> I think we agree.
>> We agree there's a CHR-REC, currently produced, asymmetric 111 SqT BB*.
>> That's unusual today. How unusual? Name another one.
>> Not Tange. Not Shimano. Not FUNN. Not IRD. Not Sugino. Not SRAM.
>> Yes, Phil Wood will make up anything your heart desires but I'd consider
>> that custom. So the Chorus/Record is so rare it may be unique. I wrote
>> that and you apparently agree, yes?
>> [*] I really can't see or measure the left-right differential. They look
>> symmetric to me. Campagnolo-USA assures us they are offset. Is that why
>> you wrote "symmetric or asymmetric"?? I'm not excited about the putative
>> 'asymmetry'. Classic offset spindles have the potential to be 'flipped'
>> for various chainline adjustments. The 111 CHR-REC won't give you a
>> useful difference. With their 'triple bearing' you could only flip the
>> Italian one anyway. And then to no avail.
russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> We have a different definition of rare. By your definition the Mazda
> RX-7 is rare. Or at least the rotary engine version RX-7. It was the
> only commercially produced car with a rotary engine. At least for
> many decades. I saw them frequently enough that I did not consider
> them too rare. Haven't looked but I bet there are a few of them
> listed in the classifieds today. I suspect Madison still has more
> than a few on the streets. If you see something every day or at least
> every week and can buy it for not a lot of money every day of the
> week, is it rare? Just because its the only one made a certain way
> does not mean its rare. Are Brooks saddles rare because they are the
> only leather tensioned saddle still made? Actually there may be the
> Lepper brand still around.
> On the Triple Bypass last year I saw quite a few Record and Chorus
> triples using the supposedly rare 111mm asymmetric bottom bracket.
> Hard to think of it as rare.
OK, that's sensible and well considered. Would you have written
"singular" or "unique" CHR 3x BB instead of "rare exceptions" ?
My point was only that with _nearly every_ modern BB for square taper,
the OP can assume symmetry. (and you can assume it for practical
purposes even with a Chorus!)
--
Andrew Muzi
Ozark Bicycle
There was a non-rotary (i.e., non-Wankel engined) RX-7. Do provide
details!
> It was the
> only commercially produced car with a rotary engine.
Except for the NSU Ro 80, the Mazda Cosmo, Mazda RX-2, and Mazda RX-3,
all of which preceded the RX-7. And now, of course, there is the Mazda
RX-8.
> At least for
> many decades. I saw them frequently enough that I did not consider
> them too rare. Haven't looked but I bet there are a few of them
> listed in the classifieds today. I suspect Madison still has more
> than a few on the streets. If you see something every day or at least
> every week and can buy it for not a lot of money every day of the
> week, is it rare? Just because its the only one made a certain way
> does not mean its rare. Are Brooks saddles rare because they are the
> only leather tensioned saddle still made? Actually there may be the
> Lepper brand still around.
>
> On the Triple Bypass last year I saw quite a few Record and Chorus
> triples using the supposedly rare 111mm asymmetric bottom bracket.
> Hard to think of it as rare.
>
>
>
>
>
> > [*] I really can't see or measure the left-right differential. They look
> > symmetric to me. Campagnolo-USA assures us they are offset. Is that why
> > you wrote "symmetric or asymmetric"?? I'm not excited about the putative
> > 'asymmetry'. Classic offset spindles have the potential to be 'flipped'
> > for various chainline adjustments. The 111 CHR-REC won't give you a
> > useful difference. With their 'triple bearing' you could only flip the
> > Italian one anyway. And then to no avail.
> > --
> > Andrew Muziwww.yellowjersey.org
> > Open every day since 1 April, 1971- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Ozark Bicycle
> "Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1171659657.8...@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...> On Feb 16, 2:21 pm, "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
> > > "Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote in
>
> message
> <snip>> > > Does that drawer have a Shimano freewheel tool lurking inside?
>
> > > Do you mean one of the old big ones that have flats on top of the
> splines?
>
> > No, I mean the last generation tool. The one that will work with the
> > DA 7400 FWs and the currently available Shimano 7SP FWs.
>
> No, I've pretty much stuck with Atom/Regina splined FWs and Suntour FWs
> except for those old Shimano 34 T beasts.
>
>
Oh well...
I was asking because that Shimano tool shares the same spline as the
tool for Campy lockrings and some (many?) modern Campy BBs. Thought
you might be able to go with a Campy BB w/o buying another tool.
* * Chas
I have Shimano and Phil BB tools, but the Campy lock rings look like they
take an external fitting tool.
Chas.
Ozark Bicycle
> "Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1171665861.2...@j27g2000cwj.googlegroups.com...> On Feb 16, 4:21 pm, "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
> > > "Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote in
> message
>
> > >news:1171659657.8...@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...> On Feb
>
> 16, 2:21 pm, "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > > "Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote in
>
> > > message
> > > <snip>> > > Does that drawer have a Shimano freewheel tool lurking
> inside?
>
> > > > > Do you mean one of the old big ones that have flats on top of the
> > > splines?
>
> > > > No, I mean the last generation tool. The one that will work with the
> > > > DA 7400 FWs and the currently available Shimano 7SP FWs.
>
> > > No, I've pretty much stuck with Atom/Regina splined FWs and Suntour
> FWs
> > > except for those old Shimano 34 T beasts.
>
> > Oh well...
>
> > I was asking because that Shimano tool shares the same spline as the
> > tool for Campy lockrings and some (many?) modern Campy BBs. Thought
> > you might be able to go with a Campy BB w/o buying another tool.
>
> I have Shimano and Phil BB tools, but the Campy lock rings look like they
> take an external fitting tool.
>
Some do; others use the aforementioned Campy lockring spine which is
shared by the Shimano freewhwwl spline. (How did such a thing ever
happen!?! Isn't there some kind of modern rule against this??)
russell...@yahoo.com
Before your editing this is what I wrote. Odd how you conveniently
deleted my sentence of "At least for many decades."
"By your definition the Mazda
RX-7 is rare. Or at least the rotary engine version RX-7. It was
the
only commercially produced car with a rotary engine. At least for
* * Chas
> On Feb 16, 4:52 pm, "* * Chas" <verktygj...@aol.spamski.com> wrote:
> > "Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote in
> > I have Shimano and Phil BB tools, but the Campy lock rings look like
they
> > take an external fitting tool.
> >
>
> Some do; others use the aforementioned Campy lockring spine which is
> shared by the Shimano freewhwwl spline. (How did such a thing ever
> happen!?! Isn't there some kind of modern rule against this??)
>
Mafac and older Campy brake blocks interchange...
Mafac was the standard before upstart Campy made brakes. Campy blocks were
always too hard for easy braking. Fresh, soft Mafac brake blocks worked
pretty well in Campy brakes. ;-)
Chas.
Ozark Bicycle
> "Ozark Bicycle" <bicycleatel...@ozarkbicycleservice.com> wrote in message
Note the phrase "modern rule". Things used to be alot more
standardized/interchangable. Now, it seems, every manufacturer wants
to make something proprietary.
"It was interchangable with another brand?, I'm sorry Commissar, it
will never happen again." ;-)
Ozark Bicycle
It seemed you meant the "many decades" prior to the introduction of
the RX-8. In fact, it still seems that way. But you do have plausible
deniability, I guess.
BTW, how are you coming along with the production dates of the non-
Wankel engined RX-7s? ;-)
Pete Biggs
>> Inexpensive and long lasting..and the new for 2006, with 3 bearings,
>> Centaur is even better...111mm, ISO taper.
And takes a cassette tool.
> You mean 2007, right?
It's featured in the *2005* catalog.
~PB
Qui si parla Campagnolo
Used to have a NSU 1200(non wankel), the dealer has a Ro 80. I owned a
RX-2 also-fast car.