Shimano & Campagnolo Road Brake efficiency
Ronko
Campy 10sp Alloy Chorus shifters and matching double-pivot Chorus
brakes (pre Skeleton). I have another similiar geometry road bike
(aluminum, carbon stays) with Shimano DA7700 shifters and Ultegra
6600 brakes. The Shimano bike stops better, it has more stopping
power and it feels snappier. Curious, I switched the front brakes. With
the Campy Chorus 10sp shifters (alloy group) the Ultegra brake isn't
the same snappy, quick stopping self. The Chorus brake on the
Shimana DA7700 shifter bike feels better than on the Campy bike, it
is snappier and stops better. In terms of modulation both
combinations work well and are controllable and do not go from no
braking to instant braking.
Various local bike shops & mechanics have various opinions some of
which are: Campy brakes are generally not as good as Shimano
which I have found in my specific case not to be true. Campy brakes
are better than Shimano in that they modulate better and are equal
in stopping power. No one believes Campy brakes stop better than
Shimano. Personally because of the general quality of Campy
equipment I am inclined to believe both Shimano and Campy are
equal in stopping power.
The Shimano STI shifter does bend out naturally from the housing,
the Campy Ergo levers are parallel with their housing. Perhaps the
Shimano just fits my hand better? I don't believe its the stiffness of
the metal or anything like that because Campy makes very good
stuff. Both bikes have good cable sets, properly routed and lubricated.
Also a 3rd bike with DT shifters has old 105 brake levers and another
6600 set of brakes, this bike stops very precisely and well, certainly
better than the all Campy Chorus alloy group bike.
Has Campy changed the design of their Shifters with newer models?
Comments? Ideas? Similiar Experiences?
Norman
> Comments? Ideas? Similiar Experiences?
http://score.kings.k12.ca.us/lessons/wwwstats/confounding.variables.html
Joe
"Norman" <invasiv...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b47e9bd1-a595-41a3...@h10g2000vbm.googlegroups.com...
On Nov 19, 1:59 pm, Ronko <ronkreu...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Comments? Ideas? Similiar Experiences?
http://score.kings.k12.ca.us/lessons/wwwstats/confounding.variables.html
Hence the birth of the the phrase "Confound it!"
Chalo
>
> I have one road bike (steel) with a 2000
> Campy 10sp Alloy Chorus shifters and matching double-pivot Chorus
> brakes (pre Skeleton). I have another similiar geometry road bike
> (aluminum, carbon stays) with Shimano DA7700 shifters and Ultegra
> 6600 brakes. The Shimano bike stops better, it has more stopping
> power and it feels snappier. Curious, I switched the front brakes. With
> the Campy Chorus 10sp shifters (alloy group) the Ultegra brake isn't
> the same snappy, quick stopping self. The Chorus brake on the
> Shimana DA7700 shifter bike feels better than on the Campy bike, it
> is snappier and stops better. In terms of modulation both
> combinations work well and are controllable and do not go from no
> braking to instant braking.
>
> Various local bike shops & mechanics have various opinions some of
> which are: Campy brakes are generally not as good as Shimano
> which I have found in my specific case not to be true. Campy brakes
> are better than Shimano in that they modulate better and are equal
> in stopping power. No one believes Campy brakes stop better than
> Shimano. Personally because of the general quality of Campy
> equipment I am inclined to believe both Shimano and Campy are
> equal in stopping power.
I can't comment specifically in regard to short reach caliper brakes,
because none of them accommodate reasonably sized tires for a full
sized adult and thus I can't use them.
But I can observe that people are quick to confuse lever response with
braking power. That's why many folks erroneously believe hydraulic
discs are more powerful than cable-actuated discs, or linear-pull
brakes are more powerful than cantilevers. They have more dramatic
lever response, but that has little to do with maximum braking
power.
From what you describe, it sounds like Shimano drop bar levers have a
higher mechanical advantage than Campagnolo levers. That's a mixed
blessing, considering the short cable throw of road levers generally
speaking. It means you have less potential rim clearance to work
with, and more likelihood of bottoming the levers before full braking
power is attained. But in a tidy, well adjusted system that has short
cable runs, high mechanical advantage means more braking with less
lever effort.
Some brakes that have relatively poor lever response, like U-brakes
and drum brakes paired with flat bar levers, can exhibit far greater
maximum stopping power than calipers that come on stronger at the
outset. But they take a more forceful grip.
Chalo
BobT
"Ronko" <ronkr...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:he44i0$pdv$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
What does "stops better" mean?
How did you assess "stopping power"?
BobT
Ronko
RobertLee...@THISSuddenLink.net says...
my definition of better. Additionally the meaning of "better" in this instance
is a shorter stopping distance regardeless of force applied.
Stopping power: Less force is required means greater power in this
instance.
Snappier: Too subjective so will have to leave up to your imagination.
Snappier on return would have no affect on actuation, only release so
clearly I either should have attempted to quantify this further or delete. The
Chorus shifters according to this definition are not quite as snappy but this
does not affect braking as it it on the return.
Frank Krygowski
>
> Stops better: For an equal amount of force the stopping distance is shorter,
> my definition of better. Additionally the meaning of "better" in this instance
> is a shorter stopping distance regardeless of force applied.
I'm not much of a fan of either of those, at least in the general
sense.
Definition #1 seems to call for maximum mechanical advantage in the
braking system. But I think there is such a thing as too much
mechanical advantage. I think a person should have to squeeze fairly
hard in order to stop very quickly.
I remember my dad's 1959 Pontiac with hair-trigger power brakes.
Anything but the lightest foot pressure could cause a skid.
Similarly, I recall a novice bike rider trying to stop quickly using
just-introduced Shimano dual pivots, and going over the bars. She
said immediately afterward, "I just squeezed the levers as hard as I
could."
And that's all besides the secondary disadvantage of high mechanical
advantage, which is less brake shoe travel thus more sensitivity to
wheels being out of true.
Regarding #2: Stopping distance is largely separate. A brake that
requires a harder lever squeeze can stop you just as short as a brake
that requires less lever force.
- Frank Krygowski