Use surgoens gloves UNDER cycling gloves?
m...@privacy.net
very cold that he wears cheap surgeons gloves UNDER his
regular gloves and it really keeps his hands warm yet
still allows nimble use of hands
anyone try this?
He says his hand do get wet from sweat but he can wear
much thinner gloves this way freeing his hands to do
things he cant do with bulky gloves
Chris
use a trash bag. The idea is the same, limit the breathability of your
layer to increase warmth.
Problem is, once you start to sweat, you get cold fast. I would not do
it.
Chris
Martin Borsje
Why that?
The sweat can not evaporate through the water and damp tight gloves.
Same principle as neoprene diving suit.
russell...@yahoo.com
The non breathable vinyl, rubber gloves trap the body's heat AND
moisture around the skin. Warm moisture initially. Very similar to
non breathable wind breakers. You trap the body's heat around the
body and in the insulating clothes you are wearing. And you trap the
moisture too. As long as you are working and generating heat, you
will stay warm trapping the heat and vapor near your skin. If you
stop doing any activity, then the moisture also trapped will cool down
and you will get cold. Whether you are wearing the vinyl gloves you
talk about, or the wind breaker. When I ride in the winter I use a
wind breaker jacket. It traps the body warmth near my skin and keeps
me warm during the ride. It also traps the moisture and I'm wet when
I get home. But warm because I don't stop working when riding in the
winter. Its ride until I'm done and inside the house.
joe
Yes, it helps quite a bit. I do the same with my feet with plastic
grocery bags on really cold days. I believe that the primary
mechanism by which it helps the hands/feet retain heat is through the
elimination of evaporation of sweat as evidenced by the build up of
moisture inside the gloves.
alan...@sbcglobal.net
Sort of.... a few weeks ago I came home with fingers totally numb
after a two hour ride in rain and wind, so I thought I'd try the local
hardware store, I found some women's gardening gloves, vinyl outside
with a thin layer of some fuzzy stuff inside. Put them on, pull the
cycling fingerless over them and I'm toasty and dry. Only problem,
store only had two colors: blue and pink....I think there were some
with little flowers all over them too. I took the blue since no one
around here has ever even heard of the Giro and that would be the only
way I could get away with wearing pink gloves.
ABS
m...@privacy.net
>> Problem is, once you start to sweat, you get cold fast. I would not do
>> it.
>>
>> Chris
>
>Why that?
>
>The sweat can not evaporate through the water and damp tight gloves.
>
>Same principle as neoprene diving suit.
My thoughts to.... so what if they sweat!
That's why they call it a vapor "barrier"!
m...@privacy.net
wrote:
>But warm because I don't stop working when riding in the
>winter. Its ride until I'm done and inside the house.
Same with gloves no?
You will be working until done riding so hands stay
warm even if wet? Yes?
m...@privacy.net
>Yes, it helps quite a bit. I do the same with my feet with plastic
>grocery bags on really cold days. I believe that the primary
>mechanism by which it helps the hands/feet retain heat is through the
>elimination of evaporation of sweat as evidenced by the build up of
>moisture inside the gloves.
Yep
I fm going to try it and see how well it works on my
next cold day bike ride
I really don't want to wear "bulky" lobster type mitts
and this idea may let me where thin gloves and still
have warm hands
Carl Sundquist
> On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 14:27:29 -0800 (PST), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> <russell...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> As long as you are working and generating heat, you
>> will stay warm trapping the heat and vapor near your skin. If you
>> stop doing any activity, then the moisture also trapped will cool down
>> and you will get cold. Whether you are wearing the vinyl gloves you
>> talk about, or the wind breaker. When I ride in the winter I use a
>> wind breaker jacket. It traps the body warmth near my skin and keeps
>> me warm during the ride. It also traps the moisture and I'm wet when
>> I get home. But warm because I don't stop working when riding in the
>> winter. Its ride until I'm done and inside the house.
>
>
> One of the first rules of serious cold weather survival training is DO
> NOT SWEAT! Work slow and easy, stay dry.
Kind of tough on an extended climb, especially with the reduced wind chill.
If you sweat while humping
> over the trail, you will freeze and die come night fall.
>
> However, on a practical basis as a cyclist, as long as you sweat and
> then get where it's warm, you're OK. I'd be cautious if you take long
> Winter rides since a tire loss, accident, or major equipment failure
> might result in an extended cold period that leaves you hypo'd.
>
Kenneth
Howdy,
You might want to check this:
http://www.warmlite.com/vb_shirt.htm
It is some information from a company that makes the finest
tents I have ever seen, and they really know something about
vapor barrier clothing.
All the best,
--
Kenneth
If you email... Please remove the "SPAMLESS."
Peter Rathmann
<russellseat...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> On Feb 5, 4:04 pm, m...@privacy.net wrote:
>
> > I had a friend who works on the railroad says when it
> > very cold that he wears cheap surgeons gloves UNDER his
> > regular gloves and it really keeps his hands warm yet
> > still allows nimble use of hands
>
> > anyone try this?
>
> > He says his hand do get wet from sweat but he can wear
> > much thinner gloves this way freeing his hands to do
> > things he cant do with bulky gloves
>
> The non breathable vinyl, rubber gloves trap the body's heat AND
> moisture around the skin. Warm moisture initially. Very similar to
> non breathable wind breakers. You trap the body's heat around the
> body and in the insulating clothes you are wearing. And you trap the
> moisture too. As long as you are working and generating heat, you
> will stay warm trapping the heat and vapor near your skin. If you
> stop doing any activity, then the moisture also trapped will cool down
> and you will get cold.
As long as you're using a sealed vapor barrier liner (such as the
surgical gloves) then the trapped moisture won't cool you down any
faster than you would cool down anyway. Normally moisture cools you
off because it evaporates and absorbs heat in the process. But inside
a vapor barrier it isn't evaporating.
I've used the same technique with a waterproof liner inside my
sleeping bag on cold nights and with plastic bags inside my socks
while riding. There is a slight buildup of moisture inside but it
stays warm and at body temperature.
Of course if you start overheating then the moisture buildup can
become a problem in itself - get rid of the vapor barrier once the
cold is no longer an issue.
Peter Cole
Vapor barriers are used to prevent condensed moisture from wetting
insulation. This is particularly important with insulations like down,
which lose effectiveness rapidly as they get damp. Many synthetics have
much better "wet warmth" and wicking.
My strategy is to layer gloves. When I am riding hard my hands will
often sweat even in very cold weather. I remove the outer layer under
that circumstance. I ride either fixed gear or bar-end shifters so I can
layer mitten shells which simplifies things enormously, especially in
extreme cold.
I've tried non-porous gloves and socks. I don't like the feeling.
Nitrile gloves are really cheap and it's good to have a box at hand, but
I wear them when I'm working on bikes rather than riding them.
russell...@yahoo.com
> "russellseat...@yahoo.com" <russellseat...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >But warm because I don't stop working when riding in the
> >winter. Its ride until I'm done and inside the house.
>
> Same with gloves no?
>
> You will be working until done riding so hands stay
> warm even if wet? Yes?
Maybe not with gloves. Your hands don't really work while riding.
Its not like you are clenching and unclenching them constantly while
riding. I think of clenching and unclenching as working your hands.
Your hands pretty much stay in the same position holding onto the bars
or hoods. You also don't move your hands from hoods to tops to drops
constantly while riding. So with hands the vapor barrier may not
really work. Best to have lots and lots of insulation for the hands.
For me anyway.
Carl Sundquist
Peter Cole
Now that's funny!
m...@privacy.net
>Nitrile gloves are really cheap
What the heck are nitrile gloves anyway?
russell...@yahoo.com
> Peter Cole <peter_c...@verizon.net> wrote:
> >Nitrile gloves are really cheap
>
> What the heck are nitrile gloves anyway?
The plastic vinyl surgeon gloves you can buy in a big box and then use
to clean your chain and other messy tasks.
Peter Cole
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Me,
Surgeons wear very thin gloves, thin enough to let them feel your
innards with a touch sensitive enough to detect bad news.
The gloves protect you from the bacteria crawling around on the
surgeon's skin, stuck to the hair, and lurking under the fingernails.
Unfortunately, some surgeons develop bad allergies to latex gloves,
which were the original material.
Nitrile is just another thin-glove material. It's cheaper than latex
and not likely to provoke allergic reactions because it's a synthetic
polymer, without the natural proteins in latex.
Why are they blue? The color helps to spot pinholes.
The gloves can be darned helpful with messy jobs, keeping your hands
clean while letting you do delicate work. You can buy them in
kleenex-box packs of a hundred for about $5.
But the gloves can become an amusing affectation:
http://www.parktool.com/images_inc/repair_help/roadposition01.jpg
Using nitrile gloves to protect your hands from touching a tape
measure while posing for pictures is just a way to remind the audience
that you're a _professional_ bicycle mechanic. (And the color does
match Park's blue logo fairly well.)
Here's an page illustrating how the fad developed:
http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=100
At first, the Park Tool mechanic changed the tire with his bare hands,
naked and unashamed in the black and white photos.
But later he began to grow fearful and donned blue gloves to protect
his delicate skin while holding a brand new inner tube and some shiny
tire valves.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
A Muzi
>> Nitrile gloves are really cheap
m...@privacy.net wrote:
> What the heck are nitrile gloves anyway?
Latex glove alternate for the latex allergic among us.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Chalo
They look like a variation of 1970s Vetter "Hippo Hands" for
motorcycles, which I'm sure were a copy of some earlier product.
There are functional equivalents available today.
http://www.hippohands.com/Products%20Description.htm
Chalo
Chalo
>
> But later he began to grow fearful and donned blue gloves to protect
> his delicate skin while holding a brand new inner tube and some shiny
> tire valves.
Maybe he was mounting an allergenic latex tube with a toxic nickel-
alloy valve stem.
Chalo
A Muzi
>> But later he began to grow fearful and donned blue gloves to protect
>> his delicate skin while holding a brand new inner tube and some shiny
>> tire valves.
Chalo wrote:
> Maybe he was mounting an allergenic latex tube with a toxic nickel-
> alloy valve stem.
Toxic metal valve. Once, could have been a funny line.
On the not humorous side, the lead in free-machining bronze valves make
bicycles (or replacement tubes, I assume) unsuitable for sale to
children under new rules starting next month. My daughter reports
suburban DC libraries are planning to ban children from the children's
sections until this is resolved (how many trace-of-lead books would a
kid have to eat to get a dangerous dose??)
russell...@yahoo.com
http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=160
And here we can see that bare hands are the appropriate method of
reinstalling a rear wheel on a quality bike with a rear dropout with
derailleur hanger and apparently a Campagnolo rear derailleur. Based
on the script I can see. Whereas in the next picture, its obviously a
junker bike with the bolted on rear derailleur hanger and Simplex(?)
rear derailleur and crappy paint job. Nitrile gloves are necessary to
touch this thing. And nitrile gloves are also necessary when
tightening the front axle nut on the same junker bike. As seen at the
bottom of the page.
Michael Press
Carl Sundquist <car...@cox.net> wrote:
Are they made in pink?
--
Michael Press
Michael Press
A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
As far as I know the pandemic lead poisoning in children
was entirely from lead acetate paint. Lead acetate is an
excellent pigment. It has a fine glowing white color. It
is opaque for thorough coverage in one coat of paint.
The problem is that children in indigent households are
starved for sweets, and lead acetate tastes sweet, so the
children would gnaw the paint off the woodwork. All the
rest of the lead scare is groundless.
Same for asbestos. Miners need protection, and the
toxicity is multiplied if the exposed person smokes.
Chemists used to keep a big carton of puffy asbestos
in the laboratory and reach in for handfuls as needed.
--
Michael Press
A Muzi
not Simplex, Shimano Tourney or similar
A Muzi
>>>> But later he began to grow fearful and donned blue gloves to protect
>>>> his delicate skin while holding a brand new inner tube and some shiny
>>>> tire valves.
>> Chalo wrote:
>>> Maybe he was mounting an allergenic latex tube with a toxic nickel-
>>> alloy valve stem.
>> Toxic metal valve. Once, could have been a funny line.
> A Muzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>> On the not humorous side, the lead in free-machining bronze valves make
>> bicycles (or replacement tubes, I assume) unsuitable for sale to
>> children under new rules starting next month. My daughter reports
>> suburban DC libraries are planning to ban children from the children's
>> sections until this is resolved (how many trace-of-lead books would a
>> kid have to eat to get a dangerous dose??)
Michael Press wrote:
> As far as I know the pandemic lead poisoning in children
> was entirely from lead acetate paint. Lead acetate is an
> excellent pigment. It has a fine glowing white color. It
> is opaque for thorough coverage in one coat of paint.
> The problem is that children in indigent households are
> starved for sweets, and lead acetate tastes sweet, so the
> children would gnaw the paint off the woodwork. All the
> rest of the lead scare is groundless.
>
> Same for asbestos. Miners need protection, and the
> toxicity is multiplied if the exposed person smokes.
> Chemists used to keep a big carton of puffy asbestos
> in the laboratory and reach in for handfuls as needed.
It's true that 'dose makes the poison' but we're in an era of 'zero
tolerance' and 'think of The Children' where rationality has fallen by
the way. New 2009 regulations prohibit items not certified lead free.
Chalo
>
> Same for asbestos. Miners need protection, and the
> toxicity is multiplied if the exposed person smokes.
> Chemists used to keep a big carton of puffy asbestos
> in the laboratory and reach in for handfuls as needed.
Pipefitters used to mix pipe insulation by hand in buckets and
barrels, with clouds of asbestos dust around them as a routine working
condition. Most of those guys are dead now, a lot of them from
mesotheliomas or asbestosis.
Not all asbestos is equal in its ability to cause cancer and other
medical problems. I understand the brown asbestos favored by the U.S.
Navy was particularly bad. Hence the unusually high incidence of
shipyard workers who perished from asbestos-related illness.
Having asbestos embedded in your house's materials is obviously not a
major problem, or our grandparents and parents would all have perished
of asbestos-related illness. It was in all kinds of stuff.
Chalo
A Muzi
>> As far as I know the pandemic lead poisoning in children
>> was entirely from lead acetate paint. Lead acetate is an
>> excellent pigment. It has a fine glowing white color. It
>> is opaque for thorough coverage in one coat of paint.
>> The problem is that children in indigent households are
>> starved for sweets, and lead acetate tastes sweet, so the
>> children would gnaw the paint off the woodwork. All the
>> rest of the lead scare is groundless.
Still Just Me wrote:
> The suggested input around here is from fine lead paint dust which is
> inhaled. The dust is said to wear off windows as they age and operate.
> Are you saying that's been disproved?
That dust accumulates on children's library book covers and used toys at
thrift stores?
Tom Sherman
No, vinyl gloves would be marked as "PVC". Nitrile gloves are thinner
and more flexible than PVC.
Nitrile rubber gloves are superior to latex in that there are fewer
allergy problems and nitrile rubber is NOT soluble in petroleum based
solvents.
--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
"Those who can't do, teach,
those who can’t teach, teach gym" - Anon.
Michael Press
Still Just Me <no...@nope.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 06 Feb 2009 14:23:19 -0800, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net>
> wrote:
>
> >As far as I know the pandemic lead poisoning in children
> >was entirely from lead acetate paint. Lead acetate is an
> >excellent pigment. It has a fine glowing white color. It
> >is opaque for thorough coverage in one coat of paint.
> >The problem is that children in indigent households are
> >starved for sweets, and lead acetate tastes sweet, so the
> >children would gnaw the paint off the woodwork. All the
> >rest of the lead scare is groundless.
>
> The suggested input around here is from fine lead paint dust which is
> inhaled. The dust is said to wear off windows as they age and operate.
>
> Are you saying that's been disproved?
Are you saying it is proven?
Sensible workers use dust masks as a matter of course
simply because any dust is an irritant, and prolonged
irritation of lung tissue is contraindicated.
What is the rate of lead absorption from breathing
paint dust compared to eating it?
--
Michael Press
Jay Beattie
Perhaps we should train our children not to gnaw the woodwork-- what
are we raising here? A race of indigent beaver-children?
The deal is that any house built before the late '70s has asbestos,
lead-based paint and many other known toxins -- like avacodo green
appliances and pink toilets. The house I was raised in was steam
heated, and we had lots of distinctive JM "blue mud" covered steam
pipes in the basement that we would whack with our ping pong paddles.
My lung function seems to be pretty good. I once heard Andrew Churg or
Norman Selikoff give a lecture (two heavy hitters in the world of
asbestos medicine), and one or the other said that efforts to remove
in-place asbestos were unnecessary and economically wasteful and
caused more harm than good. But that does not prevent legions of men
in bunny suits from making good money removing a non-hazard.-- Jay
Beattie..
Michael Press
Still Just Me <no...@nope.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 07 Feb 2009 16:13:34 -0800, Michael Press <rub...@pacbell.net>
> wrote:
>
> >> The suggested input around here is from fine lead paint dust which is
> >> inhaled. The dust is said to wear off windows as they age and operate.
> >>
> >> Are you saying that's been disproved?
> >
> >Are you saying it is proven?
> >Sensible workers use dust masks as a matter of course
> >simply because any dust is an irritant, and prolonged
> >irritation of lung tissue is contraindicated.
> >What is the rate of lead absorption from breathing
> >paint dust compared to eating it?
>
> I'm referring to the ingestion by children who are in older homes
> where there is lead paint on the windows. Children don't use dust
> masks. Note that I am not insisting it's been proven. I'm actually
> asking if it has been. The reason given for lead paint removal around
> here is to avoid this problem and the stories of children actually
> eating lead paint are now discounted.
>
> Again, I'm looking for information, not insisting on the accuracy of
> the above.
The problem arose when children ate paint with lead acetate
pigment. Lead acetate tastes sweet, but not as sweet as
cane sugar. Romans of the Roman empire kept lead acetate
in the pantry for sweetening.
Interior paint is formulated to remain intact, and not
form dust. I would be very surprised to discover that
interiors coated with lead paint presents a toxic hazard
when left to themselves. Exterior paint is formulated to
dust out at the surface to make a sacrificial layer to
the elements. That way exterior paint decays progressively
from the surface rather than all at once from surface to
base, thus better preserving the wood underneath and
preserving good looks.
--
Michael Press
Mike
>Nitrile is just another thin-glove material. It's cheaper than latex
It must be local thing as nitrile gloves in the UK are usually more
expensive than latex ones.
--
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Mike,
You're right and I was wrong--latex is cheaper than nitrile:
"High-grade non-latex gloves (such as nitrile gloves) also cost two or
more times the price of their latex counterparts, a fact that has
often prevented switching to these alternate materials in
cost-sensitive environments, such as many hospitals."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_gloves
$7.99 Pack of 100 large nitrile gloves:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=37051
$5.99 Pack of 100 large latex gloves:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=36118
The advantage of nitrile for home use is that it resists oils and
solvents and causes no allergic rashes.
At six to eight cents per glove, the extra four cents for nitrile is
probably worth while.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel