composite integrity

[amop...@aol.com]

I've heard that bikes should not be stored near electrical motors -- such as furnaces, fans etc -- because the ozone created by the motor can degrade paint and rubber. Is this true? (I commute to
work and store my bike in the boiler room) Also, would there be any impact on a carbon fiber frame stored in the same conditions? Thanks in Advance -- Bob

~~~~"There's always slack somewhere." -- Harry Houdini~~~~

Bob (AmOp...@aol.com)

[amop...@aol.com]

I've heard that bikes should not be stored
near electrical motors -- such as
>furnaces, fans etc -- because the ozone
created by the motor can degrade

paint and rubber. (actually it's in the Schwinn manual)

[David Pottage]

amop...@aol.com wrote:
>
> I've heard that bikes should not be stored
> near electrical motors -- such as
> >furnaces, fans etc -- because the ozone
> created by the motor can degrade
> paint and rubber. (actually it's in the Schwinn manual)
> Is this true?
> (I commute to work and store my bike in the boiler room)
> Also, would there be any impact on
> a carbon fiber frame stored in the same conditions?
> Thanks in Advance -- Bob

I think that's Schwinn's lawers covering themsleves.

properly adjusted electric motors produce hardy any ozone, most other
electrical devices don't produce any. In most states there are strict
laws that limit ozone concentration. The suppler of the equipment, your
employer and your landlord will all be bound.

In any case, if the paint on this supposedly hazardous equipment is OK,
paint on object further away should be a no risk.

Worry about heat & sunlight more.

--

David Pottage

1st Year Chemistry Postgraduate Student, University of Southampton,
Southampton SO17 1BJ, U.K. email: d.e.p...@soton.ac.uk

[Thomas H. Kunich]

In article <3354DB...@soton.ac.uk>,
David Pottage <d.e.p...@soton.ac.uk> wrote:

>properly adjusted electric motors produce hardy any ozone,

I find this interesting. How do you "properly adjust" an electric
motor?

Ozone is generated around electric coronas and arcs. Most modern
motors are brushless and don't generate sparks or corona. The ozone
production was because of the commutators on DC motors.

[Jobst Brandt]

Bob (who?) writes:

> I've heard that bikes should not be stored near electrical motors --
> such as >furnaces, fans etc -- because the ozone created by the
> motor can degrade paint and rubber. (actually it's in the Schwinn
> manual) Is this true? (I commute to work and store my bike in the
> boiler room) Also, would there be any impact on a carbon fiber frame
> stored in the same conditions?

Don't leave it near the furnace. Being carbon, like coal, the furnace
will eat your bike, thinking that it is fuel. Don't worry about the
ozone, it is in a great hurry to get to the ionosphere to replenish
the ozone hole.

Jobst Brandt <jbr...@hpl.hp.com>

[bere...@caent11.esa.lanl.gov]

In article <19970415145...@ladder01.news.aol.com> amop...@aol.com writes:

> I've heard that bikes should not be stored
> near electrical motors -- such as
> >furnaces, fans etc -- because the ozone
> created by the motor can degrade
> paint and rubber. (actually it's in the Schwinn manual)
> Is this true?
> (I commute to work and store my bike in the boiler room)
> Also, would there be any impact on
> a carbon fiber frame stored in the same conditions?

> Thanks in Advance -- Bob

Don't know about the paint and rubber, but I haven't been able to find
anything on ozone and graphite/epoxy. Organics (epoxy matrix, Kevlar
fibers, but not graphite fibers) are subject to attack by atomic
oxygen (Low Earth Orbit environment). All of the references I could
find on oxidation of organic composites dealt with atomic oxygen, not
ozone. In 10 years of working with composites, I have never heard of
ozone being a concern for composites. The X-33 and X-34 reusable
launch vehicles will be the first structures to spend a significant
amount of time in the stratosphere, so I expect those programs will
eventually develop some data on composites and ozone.
--
Barry Berenberg
Los Alamos National Laboratory
ESA-DE
bere...@lanl.gov

[Jeremy Dowdall]

Jobst Brandt (jbr...@hpl.hp.com) wrote:
:
: Don't leave it near the furnace. Being carbon, like coal, the furnace

: will eat your bike, thinking that it is fuel. Don't worry about the
: ozone, it is in a great hurry to get to the ionosphere to replenish
: the ozone hole.
:
: Jobst Brandt <jbr...@hpl.hp.com>

I'm not saying your wrong, I just don't get it. I've always tried to keep
my bikes (carbon, al and chromo) away from furnaces and such because of
the ozone and the tires, but I haven't heard about this problem - we
actually used store coal near the oil furnace and hot water heater. How
does the furnace damage the carbon (granted it be kept *outside* :))?

thanx,
jeremy...

[bqi...@aol.com]

Actually, Jobst is close, but not exactly correct. The problem is the synergy between the ozone created by the fan motor and the hydrocarbon elements
in the furnace fuels (gas, coal, or oil - no real difference). This synergy accelerates
the degeneration of the carbon 14 isotopes in the frame, causing premature aging of
the carbon fibers. If you want your frame to stay "healthy", give it plenty of fresh air
and sunshine. Keep riding! Bill

<\ __ ,__o Bill Yoder
\bob__|_ /\_<, If I'm not towin',
... (*) (*)/'(*) I'm probably not goin'

[Garry Lee]

> Actually, Jobst is close, but not exactly correct. The problem is the
synergy between the ozone created by the fan motor and the hydrocarbon
elements
> in the furnace fuels (gas, coal, or oil - no real difference). This
synergy accelerates
> the degeneration of the carbon 14 isotopes in the frame, causing
premature aging of
> the carbon fibers. If you want your frame to stay "healthy", give it
plenty of fresh air
> and sunshine. Keep riding! Bill
>
> <\ __ ,__o Bill Yoder
> \bob__|_ /\_<, If I'm not towin',
> ... (*) (*)/'(*) I'm probably not goin'
>

Rubbish!

What's at work here is the igneocentric carboniferogenic principle of
Pffaffembaum. This was discovered by Pffaffenbaum during rocket research at
Peenemunde inn about 1943. At the time the Nazis where experimenting with
carbon fibre rockets for lightness but instead they decided to manufacture
them from Columbus tubing which was readily supplied by their ally, Italy.
Incidentally, Shimano started off as a rocket scientist but started making
fishing reels when one of his rockets went off course and killed a record
trout.. The rest is history.

[Bob Lambert]

Garry Lee wrote:
>
> > Actually, Jobst is close, but not exactly correct. The problem is the

lots of stuff snipped

I suspect that Jobst is correct. Although I have only visited the US
four times, I have seen many American films that feature boilers.
Without exception the boilers were sinister malevolent devices that
lurked in basements and frightened children. Often the boiler would open
and try to consume the child. The door at the top of the basement
stairs never opens from the inside so that people can be trapped in the
basement until the boiler can get them.

Don't put the bike near the boiler, don't go near the boiler, don't go
into the basement. To be safe, come and live in the UK where we have
tine harmless boilers that hang on kitchen walls like one of the family.

Hope this helps'

Bob

[Jeremy Dowdall]

Bob Lambert (B.La...@uk22p.bull.co.uk) wrote:
: I suspect that Jobst is correct. Although I have only visited the US

: four times, I have seen many American films that feature boilers.
: Without exception the boilers were sinister malevolent devices that
: lurked in basements and frightened children. Often the boiler would open
: and try to consume the child. The door at the top of the basement
: stairs never opens from the inside so that people can be trapped in the
: basement until the boiler can get them.

ahhh, another "Simpsons" fan :)