Stuck seatpost - a new idea?

[Frank Krygowski]

Stuck seatposts have been discussed here many times over the years.
Apparently, the most common situation is an aluminum post stuck in a
steel frame.

I've never had the problem, but a good friend of mine who lives over an
hour away has the problem now. He's not an expert on mechanical things.
(For example, after he sent me a photo of the seatpost/seat tube
juncture, I said "Well, your seatpost is aluminum..." and he replied
"How do you know that?") Penetrating oil and much tugging and twisting
on the saddle has done him no good.

Anyway, I pointed him to Sheldon Brown
http://sheldonbrown.com/stuck-seatposts.html
and I think he may now be trying to have some ammonia trickle into the
joint.

But I'll be visiting in a couple weeks, and I'm wondering if this has
been tried: Finding or boring a section of steel pipe with an ID just
larger than the seatpost diameter (27.2mm in his case), splitting it
longitudinally, re-assembling and very lightly clamping it around the
protruding seatpost, then using it as a support to pry, lever or jack
the saddle and seatpost upward. The pipe would transfer the compressive
reaction load to the top edge of the steel seat tube.

I imagine I'd need a steel plate under the saddle. I can conceive of an
arrangement of screw threads to do the lifting, using nuts welded to the
steel pipe so as to support the lower end of bolts. But again, I've got
no experience with this repair, so perhaps the force doesn't need to be
very great?

I'll be visiting only for a few hours, so I'll have just one chance to
help him out. Anybody know if this method has ever succeeded?

--
- Frank Krygowski

[avag...@gmail.com]

uh yeah look thru RBT archives there's long uh you know post on this.

I deal with rust doing auto maintenance and restoration. In the rust belt, I had mated steel and aluminum as splash guards. The ion trading between steel and aluminum goes way beyond rust in mass, solidity and adhesion: beyond concrete into a very hard successful epoxy bond worthy of orbital use ages.

http://goo.gl/sRRslq

I've soaked forks/head tubes, in ammonia and oils (separately) for weeks: solid tight not map gas and 02 with leverages world nit loosen the bond ...over a significant surface. Remember the surface.

I haven't figures the molecular weights of the steel-aluminum ion deposit but you're encouraged to weigh the reactions and report back. Comparing against a few oxygen and water molecules

[James]

Seat posts are cheap. Why not cut the end off so that the steel tube
can slide over the seat post without needing to split it longitudinally,
which would weaken it I'm sure.

I'd then tap a thread inside the seat post, and with the tube slightly
longer than the seat post, and with a plate with a hole as a stiff
washer, try to pull the seat post out as you describe.

--
JS

[John B. Slocomb]

It depends greatly on how long things have been assembled.

Some time ago I bought a used Japanese bike, that from the derailers
and other bits seemed to be 20 years old or thereabout. In trying to
get the seat post out I tried everything I could think of and finally
resorted to making a boring bar with a cutting head the diameter of
the I.D. of the seat tube and boring it out. Things didn't go
perfectly and I was left with a paper thin layer of aluminum bonded to
part of the lower portions of the seat tube which I was able to chisel
out (with a specially made very long chisel :-) From the remains it
was apparent that the tube had essentially bonded to the steel seat
tube.

I do not believe that the frame will withstand the force needed to
pull a firmly stuck seat tube.

I did read an article about a couple (I think it was) that removed an
aluminum seat post by plugging the frame tubes and pouring in some
chemical that reacted with aluminum but not with steel.

I did try a acid, I don't remember what now, but it didn't seem to
accomplish much, but the article I mentioned (it might have been a you
tube) definitely ended in success.

I tried: adapting an impact wrench to the seat tube, a rivet gun
applied to drive the post into the frame - thinking it would "break
the bond" so to speak, and finally a 24 inch pipe wrench on the post,
which after all the other tortures finally twisted the post off.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[avag...@gmail.com]

ah frank, ura machinist ?

fab a holder for a narrow hacksaw blade stick into the seat post ID...

cutting seat post wall in 2-3 places then adding ammonia then tapping with a punch is the way togo.

while there build a small shop for eyeglass and helmet mounted mirrors from solderable unbreakable aluminum.

the ammonia problem is elementary...there's no way to deliver ammonia to the ion exchange areas !

n not an H202 level reaction eg

[avag...@gmail.com]

nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

linseed oil mixed with aluminum antiseize

or

https://www.google.com/#q=dissolving+aluminum+hydroxide

[AMuzi]

If you're going to attempt a mechanical removal at that
level of corrosion ( and I heartily encourage you especially
since owner seems not to have much experience in the area)
you might cut the top of the post and slip a steel bar
inside so the post doesn't crush and tear when you clamp and
twist it.

In my experience the last infallible resort is that the
aluminum post melts well before any damage to the steel frame.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[AMuzi]

Oxides are bigger than metals.
There's the problem in a nutshell.

[Doc O'Leary]

For your reference, records indicate that

John B. Slocomb <sloc...@invalid.com> wrote:

> From the remains it
> was apparent that the tube had essentially bonded to the steel seat
> tube.

I wonder by what process. What we really need is a material scientist
who can say what is actually happening so that we can devise a proper
solution.

> I tried: adapting an impact wrench to the seat tube, a rivet gun
> applied to drive the post into the frame - thinking it would "break
> the bond" so to speak, and finally a 24 inch pipe wrench on the post,
> which after all the other tortures finally twisted the post off.

Not yet mentioned: heat and/or chill the frame so that there is a
significant difference in the thermal expansion of the two metals.

--
"Also . . . I can kill you with my brain."
River Tam, Trash, Firefly

[Frank Krygowski]

You're right, that would be easier, if he's willing to destroy his
seatpost.

It occurs to me, I don't know if the lower saddle mounting lug (or
whatever you'd call it) is cast as one piece with the seatpost tube, or
simply pressed in. If it's the latter, that joint might not resist much
tensile force. So I might end up drilling a transverse hole through the
post anyway.

Bonus! His bike would then be 3 grams lighter!

I wish I had an idea of how much force is needed. On one hand, it's
clearly more than he could exert by twisting and tugging on the saddle.
On the other hand, the bike's (IIRC) only about 3 years old, so
corrosion etc. shouldn't be very bad.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

On 11/10/2014 8:32 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>
>
> If you're going to attempt a mechanical removal at that level of
> corrosion ( and I heartily encourage you especially since owner seems
> not to have much experience in the area) you might cut the top of the
> post and slip a steel bar inside so the post doesn't crush and tear when
> you clamp and twist it.

Good idea, if it comes to that. This is another guy whose house lacks
the very useful boxes of metal stock that I keep around here. I guess I
can take along an assortment of steel bars and pipes, hoping for one
that fits.

>
> In my experience the last infallible resort is that the aluminum post
> melts well before any damage to the steel frame.

I saw that impressive photo on your website. But I'm sure he'd prefer
not having to repaint his frame. I sure hope things come out easier.

There are some cool YouTube videos showing people in haz-mat suits
dissolving seatposts via harsh chemicals. His daughter is a chemistry
student, so that could be educational. But that method seems to take
several hours.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[John White]

In article <m3qn8c$17i$1...@dont-email.me>,

Impact is the usual answer for frozen things like nuts and studs. How
about just taking the seat off and giving the top of the seat post a few
whacks with a hammer?

[Sir Ridesalot]

I've got really stuck setposts out (destructively for the post though) by cuttin off tthe top of the post then rapidly cooling the interior of the post whilst simultaneously using a hot air gun to heat the steel frame in the area where the post is. The aluminium post cools and shrinks and the steel seat tube heats and expands. A helper to hold onto the wrench or whatever you use to turn the seatpost is a big help. Sometimes tapping the wrench as you work will cause the post to suddenly break loose.


Good luck.

[russell...@yahoo.com]

I'd suggest taking out the bottom bracket and cranks. Then pouring a quart or so of penetrating oil down the seattube. Let it sit a week or a month. Then use a pipe wrench on the seatpost and/or hit the seatpost with a hammer. Let the oil have time to work.

[Lou Holtman]

Sir Ridesalot schreef op 10-11-2014 19:48:

Lube the f*cking seatpost from time to time to avoid this kind off
situations. I spent four hours once to saw, file, pry out a stuck
seatpost of a friends bike. Recently I asked him if he lubed the new one
recently. 'yeah I have to do that..' Sigh.....

Lou

[avag...@gmail.com]

http://goo.gl/ebxMTC
http://goo.gl/GCz7nl

http://goo.gl/5GvYub

http://goo.gl/QKiChw


gee whiz damn shame awl doahn read my posts.

It's the surface area np...like red locktite on small bolts visavee red loctite on large bolts

I am at a loss for figuring reaction rates but will go with electons/weight nucleus and aluminum oxide forming next to instantly when Al is gouged fresh.
Guess is when 2 spaces, Fe and Al are open the al fills first and with more POW more pressure...then the AlOH reaction involves a trading of ions to corrode the Al...lets see back to Images...

Ugh nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

http://goo.gl/RJGWbs

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 21:13:07 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>But I'll be visiting in a couple weeks, and I'm wondering if this has
>been tried: Finding or boring a section of steel pipe with an ID just
>larger than the seatpost diameter (27.2mm in his case), splitting it
>longitudinally, re-assembling and very lightly clamping it around the
>protruding seatpost, then using it as a support to pry, lever or jack
>the saddle and seatpost upward. The pipe would transfer the compressive
>reaction load to the top edge of the steel seat tube.

I don't think you can clamp down on the aluminum seat post with enough
pressure. If you try to pull or rotate the assembly by the clamp, I
think it will slip. If the seat post is fluted, you might get a
decent grip. Or, just drill a hole in the seat tube.

>I imagine I'd need a steel plate under the saddle. I can conceive of an
>arrangement of screw threads to do the lifting, using nuts welded to the
>steel pipe so as to support the lower end of bolts. But again, I've got
>no experience with this repair, so perhaps the force doesn't need to be
>very great?

My limited experience with extracting seat posts suggests that the
extraction force is greater than what it takes to bend the frame.

>I'll be visiting only for a few hours, so I'll have just one chance to
>help him out. Anybody know if this method has ever succeeded?

No clue.

If you only have a few hours, turn the bike over and clamp the seat
post in a bench vice. Fill the seat tube with penetrating oil. Let
sit a while. Then rotate the frame using a 2x4 for leverage.
Hopefully, you won't bend the frame. Once it's broken free, try a
slide hammer pilot bearing puller to extract the seatpost. Something
like this but with longer teeth:
<http://tetoolsusa.com/tools/images/2-1170.jpg>
or something crude like this:
<https://www.flickr.com/photos/singlespeedoutlaw/760980580/>

Tools for seat post removal:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=seat+post+removal+tool&tbm=isch>

Good luck.

Frank: I have the ebay vehicle detector in hand. I made a loop and
found that it runs at about 60KHz. However, I've been sick and
overworked lately, and have little spare time. Sorry(tm).

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[avag...@gmail.com]

try this one

http://goo.gl/CFQUwP

back to work

[AMuzi]

On 11/10/2014 1:50 PM, avag...@gmail.com wrote:
>-snip-

> gee whiz damn shame awl doahn read my posts.

you may have poisoned the waters again with your comments to
Mr Cleary.

[Sir Ridesalot]

Kind of hard to lube someone's stuck seatpost if that seatpost won't move. I lubricate mine once a year when I do my annual checkup.

Cheers

[avag...@gmail.com]

WINTER COMES OVER THE HILL

THE COLDNESS DRIVES HUMOR INTO THE TILL

SUMMER'S HEAT

WINTER'S BITTER CHILL

THE CONTRADICTIONS OF HUMOR SHRED IN THE MILL

REALITY SUFFERS BY HEARTH'S BLAZING LIGHT

LET US LAUGH

WHEN MACHINISTS SHRED

POSTS IN THE NIGHT

[Frank Krygowski]

On 11/10/2014 2:50 PM, avag...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> gee whiz damn shame awl doahn read my posts.

Well, sometimes we try...


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

On 11/10/2014 2:55 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sun, 09 Nov 2014 21:13:07 -0500, Frank Krygowski
> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>> But I'll be visiting in a couple weeks, and I'm wondering if this has
>> been tried: Finding or boring a section of steel pipe with an ID just
>> larger than the seatpost diameter (27.2mm in his case), splitting it
>> longitudinally, re-assembling and very lightly clamping it around the
>> protruding seatpost, then using it as a support to pry, lever or jack
>> the saddle and seatpost upward. The pipe would transfer the compressive
>> reaction load to the top edge of the steel seat tube.
>
> I don't think you can clamp down on the aluminum seat post with enough
> pressure. If you try to pull or rotate the assembly by the clamp, I
> think it will slip. If the seat post is fluted, you might get a
> decent grip. Or, just drill a hole in the seat tube.

I may not have described my plan clearly enough. The split steel pipe
is not intended to clamp the seatpost. Quite the opposite; it needs to
allow the seatpost to slide axially through it.

Ideally, radial forces on the seatpost would be negligible, and present
at all only to keep the pipe concentric with the seatpost. Major forces
would be axial to the post: tensile on the post, with a reactive
compressive force on the steel tube. The steel tube and its attached
hardware would be pushing down on the top edge of the seat cluster (i.e.
the bike frame) and simultaneously pushing up on the saddle and
seatpost, possibly via a simple screw mechanism.

>
> Frank: I have the ebay vehicle detector in hand. I made a loop and
> found that it runs at about 60KHz. However, I've been sick and
> overworked lately, and have little spare time. Sorry(tm).

No worries. Take your time, and thanks.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[avag...@gmail.com]

yeah my cars all had/have drum brakes tho I surfed into a packaged front end wit discs for the 544. So, with the ther stuff going on I went thru the maintenance routine on my van getting into disc brakes.

I'm impressed. The fronts went OK without new pads but I canna get new pads onto the rears: too much grease, lack of jiggle jiggle alignment pins going going in, damage , maybe leave pins loose to turn ? I dunno. Very little info there. The Ford forum threw me out....

However, there is maintenance happening.

See the bike. See the seat post ? What does it do? like a children's book to paraphrase Lou.

But wait. Let me compare thee to a summer's day....or a horses ass...or a rose would smell as sweet.....

We read posters claiming mechanical knowledge ripping past my pithy...harharhar pithy getit pithy...ok...observation that you can yammer all day about this solution or that but expletive deleted WTF are you pouring it on ? a small extremely narrow ring of crystalline exudation from corrosion that's pressuring the two walls of post and tube.

n these dullards with whom you deign conversation believe theirsolution is gonna chew thru the structure for ... ? and pop out comes the post.

hey gimme a break wudja ?

so how do these homebrew LED setups compare to cateye ?

izzit tru cateye puts out twice the lumens at 3x the cost ?

what I was getting at atomically ...not knowing what actually just throwing the idea out...maybe a metallurgist would come by..is FeO kinda lays flat taking a fairly long time to seriously jam the works. But Al-FE plus water and oxygen may not lay flat but develop a cube pshing against the wall in a faster reaction. As the last cube forms up n the last not quite enough space with two more wanna be cubes behind....thiss mooore than FeO but I doahno of this hypothesis is accurat

[John B. Slocomb]

On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 15:53:03 +0000 (UTC), Doc O'Leary

Yes there is. Aluminum seat posts expand more than steel seat tubes
:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[avag...@gmail.com]

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

and with extensive corrosion, ion loss to the steel, tubing expands at a faster rate due to less internal cohesion !

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 18:30:23 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>I may not have described my plan clearly enough. The split steel pipe
>is not intended to clamp the seatpost. Quite the opposite; it needs to
>allow the seatpost to slide axially through it.

Oh. I assumed a different mechanism.

>Ideally, radial forces on the seatpost would be negligible, and present
>at all only to keep the pipe concentric with the seatpost. Major forces
>would be axial to the post: tensile on the post, with a reactive
>compressive force on the steel tube. The steel tube and its attached
>hardware would be pushing down on the top edge of the seat cluster (i.e.
>the bike frame) and simultaneously pushing up on the saddle and
>seatpost, possibly via a simple screw mechanism.

Won't work. You're pushing against the edge of the top tube with
whatever clamping contrivance you're fabricating. It's not strong
enough.

I had the same idea at one point and did roughly the same thing. I
fashioned a split length of steel tubing, that matched the contour of
the end of the top tube as best I could with a pneumatic hand grinder.
I had two hose clamps around the steel tubing, as close to the top
tube as possible. When I began applying pressure to the seat post
using a screw jack with a toggle link on the end, I watched the top
tube slowly begin to peel outward and mushroom. I stopped before I
destroyed the top tube. The problem is that the top tube is just not
thick enough to withstand the axial pressure without bending sideways.
The top tube edge is also slightly rounded, making it easier to peel.
I did no better when I ground a step on the inside edge of the split
steel tube, which bent the seat tube inward, causing it to clamp and
lock the seat tube. Not recommended.

I also ruined another frame with a similar non-functional method. I
attached a 1/4" steel plate to the seat post saddle screw using the
stock M8(?) bolt. I then stuffed jack screws on both sides of the
seat post and secured them to the top tube and to a plate attached
over the rear brake bosses. The seat post didn't move, but I did
manage to ding the top tube and partly shear off both brake bosses.
Not recommended.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 20:06:32 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:
(...)

On my way home, I thought of yet another way to unstick the seat post.
I used this method to extract swollen leaky D cell batteries from
aluminum Maglite flashlights, so I suspect it might work with a stuck
seat post.

You need an oscillating (20 KHz) multi-malfunction power tool, usually
used to scrape off paint and gouge into everything it touches:
<http://www.harborfreight.com/oscillating-multifunction-power-tool-68861-8493.html>
<http://www.harborfreight.com/variable-speed-multifunction-power-tool-67537.html>
Also get a replacement blade:
<http://www.harborfreight.com/1-38-in-HCS-Multi-Tool-Plunge-Blade-61816.html>
Find an old tape measure blade, and break off a 1ft section. The arc
of the tape measure blade will not match that of the seat post, but it
will bend to fit. Somehow, attach the tape blade to the vibrating
blade surface. I used epoxy, but that didn't last. Slip the tape
measure blade between the seat post and the seat tube and fire up the
oscillating power tool. The tape measure blade should be thin enough
to fit into the gap, and push the rust and oxide crud out of the way.

Disclaimer: I haven't tried this yet (except on a flashlight).

[Sir Ridesalot]

If you could get something as thick as a taoe measure blade between the seatpost and the seat tube then the seat post wouldn't br dtuck in the first place. You'd also be able to get a lubricant in there. If a post is really stuck there often isn't even enough room for the lubricant to even work its way along the entire length of the post inside the frame which is why the lubricant/penetrating oil idea often doesn't work either. I wonder if strngly vibrating the frame/seat post are for a while would loosen it a bit.

Ride the bike with the seat binder bolt out until tthe post moves then apply oil to lube tthe interface and then remove the post?

Cheers

[jbeattie]

On Monday, November 10, 2014 9:46:14 PM UTC-8, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 20:06:32 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
> wrote:
> (...)
>
> On my way home, I thought of yet another way to unstick the seat post.
> I used this method to extract swollen leaky D cell batteries from
> aluminum Maglite flashlights, so I suspect it might work with a stuck
> seat post.
>
> You need an oscillating (20 KHz) multi-malfunction power tool, usually
> used to scrape off paint and gouge into everything it touches:
> <http://www.harborfreight.com/oscillating-multifunction-power-tool-68861-8493.html>
> <http://www.harborfreight.com/variable-speed-multifunction-power-tool-67537.html>
> Also get a replacement blade:
> <http://www.harborfreight.com/1-38-in-HCS-Multi-Tool-Plunge-Blade-61816.html>
> Find an old tape measure blade, and break off a 1ft section. The arc
> of the tape measure blade will not match that of the seat post, but it
> will bend to fit. Somehow, attach the tape blade to the vibrating
> blade surface. I used epoxy, but that didn't last. Slip the tape
> measure blade between the seat post and the seat tube and fire up the
> oscillating power tool. The tape measure blade should be thin enough
> to fit into the gap, and push the rust and oxide crud out of the way.
>
> Disclaimer: I haven't tried this yet (except on a flashlight).
>

And while you're at Harbor Freight: http://www.harborfreight.com/11-piece-adjustable-hand-reamer-set-38577.html

Also get a six pack on the way home. Or two.

-- Jay Beattie.

[AMuzi]

Looks just like a tool in the web image!

A set of quality American made replacement blades for one
Starrett letter H reamer costs about that much. The full set
is $1300 (I just looked, wow. Mine are old, I had no idea)

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 09:51:29 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 11/11/2014 9:16 AM, jbeattie wrote:
>> And while you're at Harbor Freight: http://www.harborfreight.com/11-piece-adjustable-hand-reamer-set-38577.html

>Looks just like a tool in the web image!
>
>A set of quality American made replacement blades for one
>Starrett letter H reamer costs about that much. The full set
>is $1300 (I just looked, wow. Mine are old, I had no idea)

The price also caught my attention. I have a few odd adjustable hand
reamers that cost me about $35/ea for "imported" quality:
<http://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn/Holemaking/Reamers/Adjustable-Expansion-Reamers/Hand-Adjustable-Reamers?navid=12106304>
For 11 of these, that would be $385 for the set. My only problem is
that literally everything I've purchased from Harbor Freight has been
marginal junk. I've had a few winners, but mostly they're use once,
and toss. Repair parts are generally unavailable. However, at 1/3
the price of real tools, it's difficult to ignore for tools that will
only be used occasionally. Caveat emptor (let the buyer beware).

In the past, I've used a pilot drill to drill out the seat post.
<http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41p-lJZjR-L._SY300_.jpg>
A local machine shop had the job and asked me to "help" (while I was
working on their computah). The drill (actually an end mill) was easy
enough, but they had to make a custom pilot tip. The frame was
clamped into the general area of the tail stock on a lathe, and the
drill inserted in the chuck. It ended up about 2" short, so they had
to attach an extension to the drill. It took about 2 hrs to setup,
and 15 minutes to drill out the seat post. The result was a thin
aluminum tube, which still had to be slit and "peeled" away from the
seat tube. The frame and paint were undamaged.

[AMuzi]

When I was working for Ray Gasiorowski I once shot one of these:
http://www.gandmtools.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/DSCF4228.jpg

out the side of a freshly painted custom frame. He didn't
kill me.

[jbeattie]

Dude, you could buy like 20 sets at Harbor Freight. What are you thinking?

I consider a Harbor Freight purchase a success if the product does not fall apart while I'm looking at it in the parking lot before driving home. If it actually works at home, then it is a highly successful purchase. I never expect it to work well or last very long.

By the way, does the seat post really have to be removed? Just think of it as a really high end Time frame. Make a little post to slide in the post -- or over the post, like a Trek. Go modern!


-- Jay Beattie.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 22:31:55 -0800 (PST), Sir Ridesalot
<i_am_cyc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:


>If you could get something as thick as a tape measure blade between the

>seatpost and the seat tube then the seat post wouldn't br dtuck in the
>first place.

Good point. I just measured a 1" wide tape measure at 0.005"
(0.127mm). I haven't tried it yet, but I think I can slip that into a
seat post with the seat bolt loose. I don't have an inside micrometer
handy to measure the ID of the seat tube and my calipers are producing
inconsistent numbers.

Note: You can expand the gap by cooling the aluminum seat post (using
dry ice) and heating the steel frame (using a hot air gun that
hopefully won't scorch the paint).

>You'd also be able to get a lubricant in there.

The idea is for the tape measure (spring steel) blade to force its way
through the oxides and corrosives, which gouging the aluminum
slightly. Maybe file some teeth into the end and edges.

>If a post is really stuck there often isn't even enough room for the
>lubricant to even work its way along the entire length of the post
>inside the frame which is why the lubricant/penetrating oil idea often
>doesn't work either.

That's probably because most people use the wrong stuff. What you
want is penetrating oil with a dash of acid to eat the rust. This
week, I'm using:
<http://blastercorp.com/PB_Blaster.html>
which is mostly naphtha and a little phosphoric acid.

Fun testing various WD-40 clones:
<https://www.engineeringforchange.org/news/2012/08/14/how_to_make_penetrating_oil.html>

>I wonder if strngly vibrating the frame/seat post are for a while
>would loosen it a bit.

Probably yes. Grab a pneumatic impact wrench. Clamp the frame to the
workbench. Fasten the seat tube onto the drive socket (somehow), and
bang away in both direction. I wonder if there's a market for impact
wrench to seat post adapters?

>Ride the bike with the seat binder bolt out until tthe post moves then
>apply oil to lube tthe interface and then remove the post?

That might be rather painful if the seat post retracts suddenly while
you're riding. I don't think it will work because the forces that can
applied with a large hammer are much greater than what your skeleton
can handle. In other words, if a hammer won't move the seat post,
your body is also unlikely to do so (even if you take the padding out
of the saddle).

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 09:31:04 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
<jbeat...@msn.com> wrote:

>By the way, does the seat post really have to be removed? Just think
>of it as a really high end Time frame. Make a little post to slide
>in the post -- or over the post, like a Trek. Go modern!
>-- Jay Beattie.

Too much trouble. Just attach the handle bars to the frozen seat
post, install a replacement seat post onto the headset, and ride it
backwards. Steering with you posterior might initially be tricky, but
with practice, it should be possible.

[AMuzi]

To measure a bore you want something more like this:

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=641661&group_ID=675640&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

(those exist in smaller size range too)

Removing the seat bolt, adding penetrant and riding does
sometimes work if time is not critical. The torsion and
flexing on a seat post/tube would surprise you, it's not a
static load at all.

in re vibration think more like ultrasound which is
amazingly effective for other similar problems. I can't get
a bike frame in my small tank however.

[AMuzi]

On 11/11/2014 11:58 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 09:31:04 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
> <jbeat...@msn.com> wrote:
>
>> By the way, does the seat post really have to be removed? Just think
>> of it as a really high end Time frame. Make a little post to slide
>> in the post -- or over the post, like a Trek. Go modern!
>> -- Jay Beattie.
>
> Too much trouble. Just attach the handle bars to the frozen seat
> post, install a replacement seat post onto the headset, and ride it
> backwards. Steering with you posterior might initially be tricky, but
> with practice, it should be possible.
>

indeed it is;
http://www.yellowjersey.org/zeusback.jpg

Bob Mionske can do that but I can't.

[Sir Ridesalot]

A lot of people use WD40 in lieu of a penetrating oil not realizing that WD40 stands for Water Displacement formula #40.

Cheers

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:05:58 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:


>To measure a bore you want something more like this:
>http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=641661&group_ID=675640&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog
>(those exist in smaller size range too)

Nope. I have a set of telescoping gauges like these from our friend
at Harbor Fright:
<http://www.harborfreight.com/6-piece-telescoping-gauge-set-5649.html>
The finish was crude, but the threads were nicely machined and moved
smoothly after a remedial grease job. Now, all I need to do is find
them, or remember who borrowed them.

>Removing the seat bolt, adding penetrant and riding does
>sometimes work if time is not critical. The torsion and
>flexing on a seat post/tube would surprise you, it's not a
>static load at all.
>
>in re vibration think more like ultrasound which is
>amazingly effective for other similar problems. I can't get
>a bike frame in my small tank however.

The typical oscillating scraper tool runs at 12 to 20 KHz. Your
ultrasonic tank probably runs at 40 KHz. An ultrasonic cleaner
doesn't really clean by pounding on the parts at 40 KHz. It's the
cavitation (exploding soap bubbles) that does the real work. The
problem with using just ultrasonics to break up the crud on the seat
post is that there's no soap or bubbles in the joint to do the work.
Might as well beat on it with my tape measure trick (patent pending).

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 12:07:12 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 11/11/2014 11:58 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>> On Tue, 11 Nov 2014 09:31:04 -0800 (PST), jbeattie
>> <jbeat...@msn.com> wrote:
>>
>>> By the way, does the seat post really have to be removed? Just think
>>> of it as a really high end Time frame. Make a little post to slide
>>> in the post -- or over the post, like a Trek. Go modern!
>>> -- Jay Beattie.
>>
>> Too much trouble. Just attach the handle bars to the frozen seat
>> post, install a replacement seat post onto the headset, and ride it
>> backwards. Steering with you posterior might initially be tricky, but
>> with practice, it should be possible.

>indeed it is;
>http://www.yellowjersey.org/zeusback.jpg
>Bob Mionske can do that but I can't.

Impressive. However, I suspect he might be more comfortable if he
exchanged the handlebar and saddle positions, as I suggested. Also,
if he can't steer with no hands, perhaps adding a cross bar to the
handlebars, and steering it like the tiller on a boat, might be
useful.

Hmmm... 1.125" dia stem is 28.6 mm. Yep, various vendors make 28.6 mm
seat posts which should fit the headset, making a frame with a 28.6 mm
seat tube size, reversible. Yesterdays Fixie, tomorrows Reversie.

[knu]

On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 17:02:19 +0000, Phil W Lee wrote:


> If you can get hold of any dry-ice, applying it to the aluminium seat
> tube should contract it far more than the steel frame - particularly if
> you use a rag soaked in hot water to wrap the seat tube.

The difference in expansion coefficients gives about 6 millionths of an
inch per inch per degree. If both are chilled completely to the freezing
point of carbon dioxide that gives you at best about a thousandth of an
inch per inch compared to room temperature. Seat posts and tubes are
pretty much an inch in diameter.

If somehow you could keep the steel at room temp and get the post all the
way down you would double this difference. It's not much to work with
either way.

[Sir Ridesalot]

That's why I said upthread that I've had success freeing a stuck aluminium alloy seatpost in a steel frame by cutting off tthe top of the seatpost then cooling the seatpost from its inside whilst applying heat to the outside of the steel frame. The steel can get quite hot and it expands whilst the super cooled seatpost shrinks. With two people wrking on it it's a lot easier to keep pressure applied to the seatpost whilsr simultaneously apply cold to the interior of the seatpost and heat to the exterior of the seat tube.

A lot of the time the seatpost releases very suddenly.

Cheers

[Frank Krygowski]

On 11/11/2014 12:31 PM, jbeattie wrote:
>
>
> I consider a Harbor Freight purchase a success if the product
does not fall apart while I'm looking at it in the parking lot
before driving home. If it actually works at home, then it is a
highly successful purchase. I never expect it to work well or
last very long.

This spring I bought a small, electric high pressure power washer from
Harbor Freight. The salesgirl tried a hard sell on a warranty, which I
refused. She said "Well, just understand, if it breaks, we won't take
it back." I said it must be under a standard warranty, right? And she
said (IIRC) "30 days, but you have to have your receipt."

I took it home, pulled it out of the packaging, and found one of its two
plastic wheels had broken off during shipping! So I went back the next
day. Same girl was at the register with a line of customers. I
interrupted her to ask about exchanging a broken product, and when it
was demanded, I produced my receipt.

When someone eventually trotted out with a replacement, she said "Just
understand, that's the last replacement you're going to get!" So in
front of the line of customers, I said "Well, do you mind if I take it
out of the package here to make sure THIS one isn't broken in the box?
If you're not going to replace a bad product, that's only fair." Not
waiting for a reply, I did just that, then said loudly "OK, I'll take
this home and try it out because THIS one isn't broken yet!" I still
remember the guys in the checkout line watching with raised eyebrows.

To its credit, the pressure washer worked well for the two hours or so
that I've used it so far.

I bought an angle grinder and a hammer drill that have done well so far.
Also a battery tender (trickle charger) for my motorcycle. I've
bought a multimeter and some LED yard lights that didn't work, and got
returned.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[avag...@gmail.com]

ACCURACY EQUALS $$$$...and for the less talented n experienced that counts pts.

The Middle Path......

not HF....expletive s]deleted, a set of sockets for $9 ? yeah how bout a broken hand ?

oogle google

https://www.google.com/#q=11+Piece+Adjustable+Hand+Reamer+Set&tbm=shop

there's a somg right Ream Ream when I want you...

I broke one today photo at 7:30

[John B. Slocomb]

It has always surprised me that Harbor Freight has been such a success
- I believe that their annual revenue is now over two billion - as in
the past American's valued good tools - I can remember when an
individual owning Sears & Roebuck's tools (they were actually a very
serviceable tool in those days) hid them in the bottom of their
toolbox so others wouldn't see them.

It says something, although I'm not sure just what, about America that
a business started in a guy's garage has grown into a 2 billion dollar
business in 37 years. Selling Chinese junk tools.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[avag...@gmail.com]

> I've got really stuck setposts out (destructively for the post though) by cuttin off tthe top of the post then rapidly cooling the interior of the post ...


tried cool hot on stuck forks,,,,,dry ice and propane...stayed stuck, bent fork keg with tuba4.

[jbeattie]

Well, its like a hardware lottery. You could win big! http://www.toolcrib.com/blog/2008/08/buyer-beware-a-harbor-freight-buying-guide-the-good-enough-the-bad-and-the-abysmal

I bought a bunch of 4" ratchet clamps for fixing my son's race skis, which tended to delaminate. They were $1.99 a pop, which was a small fraction of the price of a name-brand clamp like a Quick-Grip. Good enough.

And to be fair, a lot of the crap is also sold by Home Depot and other big box stores -- usually for more money, and usually as an entry drug to the expensive tools that are down the aisle -- or a cautionary tale.

-- Jay Beattie.

[Joe Riel]

True enough. Home Depot is mostly crap. I wish there was a local
quality hardware store. I'm so tired of all the packaged garbage.

--
Joe Riel

[jbeattie]

For the most part, all I need is the usual stuff -- which you can get at the big box stores or on the inter-web, but for odd ball stuff (like a bag of brown coat and finish plaster), I go to specialty stores -- some of which are not stores at all but are warehouses with crazy forklift drivers and surly individuals who wonder why some pencil neck civilian is looking for a bag of plaster. And lets not forget going to the place to buy silica sand for a sanded finish -- more crazy forklift drivers and endless bags of sand. http://lagrandindustrial.net/

As the curator of a 50s house, I sometimes find myself digging through the piles of scary shit at this hardware store. http://www.yelp.com/biz/hippo-hardware-portland And now that I'm over the edge O.T., one of my most satisfying mechanical projects was rebuilding a '51 Nutone Westminster chime door bell. The new button came from another PDX hardware mecca, Rejuvination. http://www.rejuvenation.com/model/stores/portland -- now rather corporate, but started in Portland, so there is some part of the store that is still filled with real old stuff.

-- Jay Beattie.

[John B. Slocomb]

One of the problems is that you never know. You may get a very
serviceable do-dad and the next time you get a power screwdriver that
won't remove or install a screw, as a friend did.

>I bought a bunch of 4" ratchet clamps for fixing my son's race skis, which tended to delaminate. They were $1.99 a pop, which was a small fraction of the price of a name-brand clamp like a Quick-Grip. Good enough.

Yup, there is some serviceable stuff in there somewhere. But I bought
a set of small carbide insert frills for drilling holes in concrete
walls. To be honest, I didn't get them from Harbor Freight but from a
"Big Box" store and the first hole I tried to drill with one of them
the "carbide" insert sort of melted :-(

>And to be fair, a lot of the crap is also sold by Home Depot and other big box stores -- usually for more money, and usually as an entry drug to the expensive tools that are down the aisle -- or a cautionary tale.
>
>-- Jay Beattie.

Yes, and I can almost hear their buyers when they say, "We are looking
to order 10,000 units and we'd like to have your lowest offer. And by
the way, we are also talking to Lim Siew Long and Lee Quan Yu".
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B. Slocomb]

I find it kind of interesting that Home Pro our local substitute for
Home Depot quite frequently has stuff of a lower quality and higher
price than a large construction materials supplier here. Specifically
PVC pipe and fittings. Home Pro had the right sizes but they didn't
have one specific fitting that I needed so I went to the "other place"
and found that the PVC pipe was cheaper in price and of better in
quality and they seemed to have every PVC fitting imaginable.

But, I remember when Home Pro first opened here and I believe that
their initial inventory was both wider in scope and higher in quality
than it is now.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[avag...@gmail.com]

droolum

https://www.google.com/#q=world's+best+tools

my favorites are woodworking and earth tools....the $75 shovel, $3 forstner bits...imagine OUAT $3.

Are 11 piece reamers a standard reamer set piece number ?

Is Champion a rebranded $35 set ?

[avag...@gmail.com]

.....

yeah I live at The End of The Road...under condo development..HD was a forlorn cow pasture when I first drove thru 1973.

HD and Wal cross the street were buried in what was left in the truck.

Then over 15 years, the TRAITS of local buying were crunched by the associated sub humans leaving the shelf goods you see today...and the smiling dictum..there's a True Value down the street...carrying a complete line of Wenn.

HD is Middle Path but Summit Racing and McMaster Carr are of the OverLord.

[AMuzi]

Thanks! that was entertaining, notably:

" 50$ CRAP chop saw! It’s like trying to cut a knife with
butter. "

And yet people willingly throw money at them. oy!

[avag...@gmail.com]

try this..

http://goo.gl/PJyFie

so you land on Planet E where resouces are dwindling, pollution is killing the planet's health, in the middle of a festival celebrating one of the planet's institutions with a vast orgy of consumption...at the beginnings of deep winter...

[avag...@gmail.com]

ahhhhhh

http://www.stihl.com/stihl-carbon-concept-chain-saw.aspx

howbout a CF grubhoe ? send some to Mexico ....

[AMuzi]

Gene, here's your next project:

http://inhabitat.com/insane-russian-attack-bike-is-powered-by-a-chainsaw/

[avag...@gmail.com]

1 April, 1971

oh good another project

I am open to further analysis of Euro objections to Russian aggression. Appears the Euro's are laying back...again

Dear General Pershing....

I am opposseed to excessive un musical noise. We Here on Deadman's Turn lotta racket but maybe 1 in 100 are musical or pleasing.

one of cycling's great pleasures.

[David Scheidt]

jbeattie <jbeat...@msn.com> wrote:
:On Tuesday, November 11, 2014 7:51:25 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
:> On 11/11/2014 9:16 AM, jbeattie wrote:
:> > On Monday, November 10, 2014 9:46:14 PM UTC-8, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
:> >> On Mon, 10 Nov 2014 20:06:32 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
:> >> wrote:
:> >> (...)
:> >>
:> >> On my way home, I thought of yet another way to unstick the seat post.
:> >> I used this method to extract swollen leaky D cell batteries from
:> >> aluminum Maglite flashlights, so I suspect it might work with a stuck
:> >> seat post.
:> >>
:> >> You need an oscillating (20 KHz) multi-malfunction power tool, usually
:> >> used to scrape off paint and gouge into everything it touches:
:> >> <http://www.harborfreight.com/oscillating-multifunction-power-tool-68861-8493.html>
:> >> <http://www.harborfreight.com/variable-speed-multifunction-power-tool-67537.html>
:> >> Also get a replacement blade:
:> >> <http://www.harborfreight.com/1-38-in-HCS-Multi-Tool-Plunge-Blade-61816.html>
:> >> Find an old tape measure blade, and break off a 1ft section. The arc
:> >> of the tape measure blade will not match that of the seat post, but it
:> >> will bend to fit. Somehow, attach the tape blade to the vibrating
:> >> blade surface. I used epoxy, but that didn't last. Slip the tape
:> >> measure blade between the seat post and the seat tube and fire up the
:> >> oscillating power tool. The tape measure blade should be thin enough
:> >> to fit into the gap, and push the rust and oxide crud out of the way.
:> >>
:> >> Disclaimer: I haven't tried this yet (except on a flashlight).
:> >>
:> > And while you're at Harbor Freight: http://www.harborfreight.com/11-piece-adjustable-hand-reamer-set-38577.html
:> >
:> > Also get a six pack on the way home. Or two.
:>
:> Looks just like a tool in the web image!
:>
:> A set of quality American made replacement blades for one
:> Starrett letter H reamer costs about that much. The full set
:> is $1300 (I just looked, wow. Mine are old, I had no idea)

:Dude, you could buy like 20 sets at Harbor Freight. What are you thinking?

:I consider a Harbor Freight purchase a success if the product does not fall apart while I'm looking at it in the parking lot before driving home. If it actually works at home, then it is a highly successful purchase. I never expect it to work well or last very long.

A number of years ago, I was horrible freight, and saw that 4.5" angle
grinders were on sale for an absurd price, like less than $10 each. I
bought three, because I was working on large welding project, and
having a collection of grinders is very handy. One of them made
horrible noises, like they forgot to put grease in the bearings, one
of them shook like they forgot the bearing, and one worked (and still
does) fine. I think the two that were no good lasted an hour or three
each. not worth the drive to replace them...

--
sig 114

[David Scheidt]

Joe Riel <jo...@san.rr.com> wrote:

:True enough. Home Depot is mostly crap. I wish there was a local

:quality hardware store. I'm so tired of all the packaged garbage.

I've got a couple local hardware stores that mostly don't suck, but
there's the occasional surprise. The side spray on our kitchen faucet
was leaking a few months ago, isnpection revealed it was the hose
itself that was leaking where the end fitting was crimped to it. I
went to the local hardware store. They sold crapy white and black
sprayers with hose, crapy black sprayers without hose, but no hose.
Went to a slighter bigger better no so local store. They had a hose,
but it was the "fuck the customer, make them pay for our inventory"
universal version, for which they wanted $50. Fuck that. Went to
menards, bought a cheap universal kit, which someone had stolen the
parts I needed out of. Had a fuss getting them to let me exchange it.


--
sig 55

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

I generally skip the retailers when I need something "special" and
head straight to the local plumbing or electrical (depending what I'm
working on) wholesaler.
It is a rare occurrence where In cannot get what I need - and at a
"sensible" price.
When I need a special fastener, I head across town to our local
specialty fastener emporium - Spae Naur Inc.
And the local auto parts counter guys know to hide under the counter
when I come in, because I make them work for the sale (usually looking
for something a bit strange)

[avag...@gmail.com]

http://goo.gl/kMg9XK

[avag...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, December 27, 2014 7:17:17 PM UTC-5, avag...@gmail.com wrote:
> http://goo.gl/kMg9XK

ow ow ow some crazy prices in there

but SEARS and HD sell this one which is enough for the occasional torcher

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Bernzomatic-OX2550KC-Oxy-Map-Pro-Torch-Kit-331673/203391033

HD sells a Bernz aluminum brazing rod.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 12/27/2014 5:33 PM, David Scheidt wrote:
>
> A number of years ago, I was horrible freight, and saw that 4.5" angle
> grinders were on sale for an absurd price, like less than $10 each. I
> bought three, because I was working on large welding project, and
> having a collection of grinders is very handy. One of them made
> horrible noises, like they forgot to put grease in the bearings, one
> of them shook like they forgot the bearing, and one worked (and still
> does) fine. I think the two that were no good lasted an hour or three
> each. not worth the drive to replace them...

I may have gotten lucky. I bought one of those (for maybe $20) for a
big welding project, fabricating ornamental steel rails for a staircase
and a balcony. I also bought one of their ~$100 flux core wire welders.
Both have done just fine, having done hundreds of welded joints plus
(for the grinder) several other jobs.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

On 12/27/2014 7:59 PM, avag...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> but SEARS and HD sell this one which is enough for the occasional torcher
>
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Bernzomatic-OX2550KC-Oxy-Map-Pro-Torch-Kit-331673/203391033

I thought about those and their clones for a long time, but finally
ended up finding a used oxy-acetylene set for just $150. It was
absolutely worth the price. It's come in handy many times, and I'd
probably have spent more than $150 in the little gas bottles for that
Oxy-Mapp set by now.

> HD sells a Bernz aluminum brazing rod.

I've had some success with those rods, although I think they're quite a
bit more difficult than true brazing of steel. Of course, there's no
color change of aluminum with temperature to warn you of overheating.
The aluminum just collapses suddenly. And you have to sort of scrape
off the original oxide layer to get a good joint, at least with some of
those rods.

But for non-critical applications - for example, "brazing" a blinky
mounting tab onto the tail of my rear rack - it's worked well for me.

BTW, for that job the acetylene would have been disastrous overkill. I
needed just a hot propane torch.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

I've made bumper mounted 4-bike carrier for the back of the camper,
canoe rack for the camper, and 2-canoe rack for the Aerostar using the
aluminum brazing rods and the Oxy Acelelene torch. Actually, IIRC I
used a Mapp torch for one of them, but the O/A was just so much
faster.

[John B. Slocomb]

It is funny but, perhaps 20 years ago I bought a Black & Decker
"Professional" 4" grinder and shortly after went and bought a sail
boat and spent the next few years sailing and living abroad so was
hardly ever in Bangkok where the grinder was and bought a no-name
Chinese grinder to keep on the boat and I used that thing for
everything. The B & D is still working and so is the No-Name but the
No-Name has done probably 100 times the work that the B & D. They both
still work but which one was the better buy? the B & D at B & D prices
or the No-Name at something like seven U.S. dollars?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[avag...@gmail.com]

I thought about those and their clones for a long time, but finally
ended up finding a used oxy-acetylene set for just $150.

NNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

REGIONAL AVAILABILITY ? Harbor Fraights and gas rigs are not created equally...

we get the most excrebale XXXX where Everett doesnot

what did the total oxy-a rig costs ? cost of gas ?

wonder if I can buy gas in Fla without a permit ?

[avag...@gmail.com]

Black n Decker ?

[avag...@gmail.com]

Frank Krygowski >

on Bernz AL rods....someone showed up having tried a frame with Bernz rods...not good, low mileage.

I have an eyeglasses frame with the AL Type ? does not form AL Oxide. Very easy maintenance with a Weller 40 watt.

you see where that goes.....

[Lou Holtman]

With Chinese stuff you get what you pay for. Even with the Chinese wages
they can't deliver consistant quality, good materials and a quality control
department for that low price. You can get lucky but most of the times it
is what it is Chinese junk. The problem is that the 'good' companies have
to compete with the Chinese and since a lot of the consumers can't see or
appreciate good quality the quality of these companies also deteriorated.
If today you want a good Black and Decker or a Bosch you have to buy the
professionel stuff. Buying three grinders to have just one that last is
ridiculous and you produce just landfill.
--
Lou

[avag...@gmail.com]

Lou ????? Euro Old World Craft$manship

Chinese here is filtered....quality and very low cost...which our trade problem and yours..German industry down...Russia buys Chinese.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K59IeKnk7w8

you have gas ?

[avag...@gmail.com]

Lou ????? Euro Old World Craft$manship

Chinese here is filtered....quality and very low cost...which our trade problem and yours..German industry down...Russia buys Chinese.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K59IeKnk7w8

http://goo.gl/YqQCId

[Lou Holtman]

I am renewing my backyard shed and needed stainless steel air vents. You
can't buy them at the local hardware stores anymore. They all sell aluminum
or plastic nickel and dime crap. There argument is that people won't buy
the more expensive stainless steel stuff, so I am forced to buy from a
online store who sell to professionels.
--
Lou

[Frank Krygowski]

On 12/27/2014 11:57 PM, avag...@gmail.com wrote:
> I thought about those and their clones for a long time, but finally
> ended up finding a used oxy-acetylene set for just $150.
>
> NNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
>

> REGIONAL AVAILABILITY ? ...

>
> what did the total oxy-a rig costs ? cost of gas ?

My set came with nearly full tanks of gas. I've since filled the
acetylene tank once, repaired one regulator, and had the hose ends fixed
once. Nothing's been very expensive.

I think we're in an era when a lot of old "do it yourself" guys are
slowing way down and selling off their tools. In many cases, those old
tools are better quality than what stores are selling at higher prices.
It's worth watching newspaper classified ads (remember newspapers?)
and things like Craig's List.

One could also start cruising the garage sales, but that takes a lot of
time. And at this point, I have almost anything I need. (Except boring
bar holders for one small lathe and one larger one. I'm still waiting
for those to pop up.)

- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

Wow. I would not repair a compressed gas regulator.

tangentially-
When I was young, the cylinder exchange I used had a huge
oxygen regulator blown inside out like a popcorn with a
handwritten note card "don't oil gauges".

[avag...@gmail.com]

crazy Dude...

[avag...@gmail.com]

Our naybor, Mr. Muffler ( of the Lowlands ) blew up the shop first thing in the morning opening a sheet metal door.

for unexplained reasons

Our groundsman will not use my Sears rig caws he figures I'm gonna blow him up.

which is possible.

I have herd advice on NOT buying used gas rigs for similar unexplained reasons.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

The REAL problem is half the B&D stuff - even the "professional"
line comes out of the same sweat-shops in China that the "Chinese
junk" comes out of. With the same problems. The "good" companies
"compete" with the Chinese by contracting them to make the socalled
"good" product.

[AMuzi]

Same experience with Black & Decker, XMart, Barbie etc
'tools'. Electric hand tools here are Milwaukee brand, made
in NotChina, Wisconsin.

http://www.milwaukeetool.com/

[Lou Holtman]

I don't trust Black&Decker either. I'm not saying The Chinese can make good
stuff, but if you pay them nickel and dimes you get nickel and dimes or
even less, because they also want to make a living. For now I stick to
Makita professionel line for my often used electric tools.
--
Lou

[AMuzi]

Also good stuff, I own some personal Makita which are 35
years old, no problems whatsoever.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 28 Dec 2014 11:48:04 +0700, John B. Slocomb
<sloc...@invalid.com> wrote:

>The B & D is still working and so is the No-Name but the
>No-Name has done probably 100 times the work that the B & D. They both
>still work but which one was the better buy? the B & D at B & D prices
>or the No-Name at something like seven U.S. dollars?

I was involved in a radio tower removal and replacement that was
expected to require considerable grinding and abrasive cutting. My
accomplis bought a brand new Black and Decker 4.5" angle grinder. We
tried to intentionally destroy it, but failed, even after about 15 hrs
of continuous grinding. The next task was somewhat easier. My
accomplis forgot to bring the key to the tool chest, so I volunteered
to grind off the lock (since I was low on oxygen and acetylene). Two
abrasive disks and an hour of profanity eventually opened the lock.

I think it was this one ($35):
<http://www.blackanddecker.com/power-tools/7750.aspx>

However, there was a problem. Near the end, I found that we had
cracked both brushes in half. No problem... just order some
replacements. We soon found that there were no replacement brushes
available from B&D or 3rd party vendors. It wouldn't have done any
good anyway because unlike real power tools, which have the brushes
installed in brass guides, this B&D piece of junk had the brush guides
molded into the plastic case, which of course had melted. I broke it
down for few useful parts, and recycled the rest.

Good luck finding brushes for the 7750:
<http://www.carbonbrush.com/blackdeckerbrush.htm>

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Frank Krygowski]

On 12/28/2014 1:37 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>
>
> Wow. I would not repair a compressed gas regulator.

Well, I dug into the usual internet discussions. There were lots of
guys saying "NEVER repair one on your own!" There were lots of guys
saying "Never even let a shop repair one for you; buy a new one!" and
several guys saying "Baloney. I did it. It's easy."

I knew how simple they were internally. Turned out the repair (really,
just a parts swap) was easy, as I suspected. The hardest bit was the
internet search for the parts.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[avag...@gmail.com]

Rockwell pro 7.25" /PorterCable batt drill AAA/Milwa Hole Hawg/Ryobi jig saw/Sears Craftsman/Stihl 041/Odyssey Truck batt/Hellwig bars/Bilstein Shocks/Toyo Open Country 10 Ply/240 amp alternator/Hella light systems/Dell Inspiron-Garmin-Street n Trips-MiFi/Kenwood 400 Watter with cabinet speakers/Sat Radio/Wenonah Solstice Titan/Wenonah Rendezvous/Raleigh '78 restored to 21C/Redline World Champion Cyclocrosser built to Trek/Last NA Open Road Volvo 544.

[John B. Slocomb]

On Sun, 28 Dec 2014 14:42:45 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

The company I used to work for did construction for oil companies in
Indonesia and from time to time we built pipe lines. Since the
pipelines were usually fairly short, say up to miles, we didn't invest
in the fancy automatic tooling that the big pipeline companies do but
did it all by hand. The "old way".

If you have, say a dozen, welding crews working 12 hour shifts you use
a lot of grinders and they do need frequent repairs. Our experience
was that any of the "big box store" grinders were just a waste of
money and that any of the so called "professional" grades still needed
frequent repairs.

By the way, there are companies that make brushes, nothing but
brushes, millions of brushes :-)

see
http://www.helwigcarbon.com/products/electric-motor-generator-brushes.html
https://www.mersen.com/en/products/electrical-solutions-for-motors-and-generators/carbon-brushes.html

:-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 29 Dec 2014 08:01:49 +0700, John B. Slocomb
<sloc...@invalid.com> wrote:

>If you have, say a dozen, welding crews working 12 hour shifts you use
>a lot of grinders and they do need frequent repairs. Our experience
>was that any of the "big box store" grinders were just a waste of
>money and that any of the so called "professional" grades still needed
>frequent repairs.

Actually, the "big box store" flavor of power tools are very useful
when someone comes around wanting to borrow my tools. I usually have
two sets. Junk tools to loan, and the good stuff for my own use. It
saves quite a bit of time and money not having to repair the good
tools.

>By the way, there are companies that make brushes, nothing but
>brushes, millions of brushes :-)

>http://www.helwigcarbon.com/products/electric-motor-generator-brushes.html
>https://www.mersen.com/en/products/electrical-solutions-for-motors-and-generators/carbon-brushes.html

Before I scrapped it, I dragged the B&D 7550 grinder to the local tool
repair shop for an estimate. They confirmed that replacement brushes
were not available and offered to fix it for about 3 times what I paid
for the tool. Most of the cost was ordering custom brushes from one
of these vendors. When I pointed out that the plastic brush guides
were warped and misaligned, they quickly changed their mind and
declared the tool a total loss as it would probably crack the new
brushes.

I have another B&D tool problem. I bought a B&D 18v drill motor and
two batteries for about $35 at Home Despot about 3 years ago. It was
similar to this model:
<http://www.walmart.com/ip/Black-Decker-18-Volt-Cordless-Drill/16779610.
I successfully killed one of the battery packs in about 3 months of
continuous use, but the other one survived. I was helping a friend
move his office about a month ago, when I needed to drill some holes.
Instead of the motor turning, smoke came out of the vent holes. In
one graceful sweeping motion, I pulled the battery pack (hazardous
waste) and tossed the drill motor into a recycling bin. I then walked
over to a nearby OSH hardware store, and bought a $20 throw-away AC
drill motor to finish the job.

I have about a dozen assorted older Makita power tools and maybe a
total of 3 working battery packs. The tools are fine, but the NiCd
and NiMH battery packs tend to die rapidly with aid of badly designed
chargers. All that changed when the industry went to LiIon batteries,
which seem to last forever. I consider these new tools wonderful, and
the old tools a bad investment.

Incidentally, I'm somewhat of an obsessive repairman, fixing most
everything before I'll consider buying a replacement. I successfully
repair everything from kids toys to computahs. After a lifetime of
habitual repair, I can easily recognize the difference between a
repairable tool and a throw-away tool. Over the years, the trend is
definitely towards the throw-away variety, where reparability isn't
even a consideration, and parts are either unavailable or seriously
overpriced. See Harbour Freight products for how that works.

Repair, don't recycle:
<https://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto>

The worst part of all this is the tendency for manufacturers to design
for a specific product lifetime. Anything that lasts longer than the
warranty period is considered over designed and a candidate for "cost
reduction", which usually means to help it fail quicker. The ideal
product would last one day longer than the warranty period, and then
have multiple parts and components fail simultaneously. I've actually
seen this happen with old CRT type Sony TV's. In the past, it wasn't
possible to do this accurately, but today's simulation and modeling
tools make it all too easy.

While it might apply to power tools, it also applies to bicycles. If
you build a bicycle to win a specific race, it's perfectly acceptable
to weight reduce the components to where everything will
simultaneously fail just after crossing the finish line. Essentially,
a minimum weight bicycle designed and built to survive exactly one
race. I don't think anyone is doing this today, but if the trend in
throw-away everything continuous, it won't be long before someone
tries it.

Oh yeah, the stuck seat post. I haven't tried using an oscillating
multifunction power tool and tape measure yet, but plan to try it the
next time I run into a stuck seat post.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 28 Dec 2014 18:15:09 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 12/28/2014 1:37 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> Wow. I would not repair a compressed gas regulator.

>Well, I dug into the usual internet discussions. There were lots of
>guys saying "NEVER repair one on your own!" There were lots of guys
>saying "Never even let a shop repair one for you; buy a new one!" and
>several guys saying "Baloney. I did it. It's easy."

Gee... if I had known it was so dangerous, I wouldn't have rebuilt
about a dozen pairs of oxy-acetylene regulators over the years. When
in college, I worked on building Rose Floats for the New Years Day
Rose Parade. Lots of stick arc and gas torch work. A regulator
rebuild every few years was considered a safety requirement and
demanded by the project advisor. Initially, we had the local welding
shop do the work (as a donation). Then, some of us watched how it was
done, and took it from there. Mostly, it was just tear it apart,
clean out the soot, replace o-rings, gaskets, and seals, and put it
back together again. Oil and lubes are really bad ideas.

Today, I have Victor regulators, where rebuild kits are commonly
available:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=victor+regulator+rebuild+kit>
For example:
<http://www.regulatortorchrepair.com/store.php/categories/regulator-parts-repair-kits>
However, I will admit that one can buy a Chinese regulator for not
much more than the cost of the rebuild kit.

The only place I've had problems is dealing with clones or "Victor
style" regulators. These look identical to the real Victor
regulators, but are not quite up to the tolerance specs. Sometimes,
they're quite different inside. The real Victor parts usually don't
fit, making a rebuild impossible.

>I knew how simple they were internally. Turned out the repair (really,
>just a parts swap) was easy, as I suspected. The hardest bit was the
>internet search for the parts.

Seems easy enough to find:
<www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=victor+regulator+rebuild>

However, if you bought a Chinese clone regulator set (such as the
Harbor Freight regulators made by Gentec), you won't find rebuild
kits. When it breaks (or leaks), recycle it.

Incidentally, don't forget to also replace the various torch o-rings
occasionally.

[John B. Slocomb]

On Mon, 29 Dec 2014 03:49:58 +0000, Phil W Lee <ph...@lee-family.me.uk>
wrote:

>avag...@gmail.com considered Sun, 28 Dec 2014 10:48:40 -0800 (PST)

>Any heavier than air flammable gas is hazardous, and needs careful
>handling.
>Particularly dangerous environments include garages with pits,
>basements or cellars, and boats.
>
>I've seen a yacht blown to small pieces by a gas leak, and the owner
>(who was lucky enough to be on deck when it went up) picked out of the
>water over 100yds away.
>
And, as an encore the boat generally catch fire too.

But more seriously, I can't remember seeing a cruising yacht with gas
bottles stored below. I kept mine on a stainless rack that was
outboard of the transom and I've seen sealed deck lockers with built
in overboard drains on some of the more prestigious (read costly)
boats.

>I've always stored gas bottles outside in a locked cage rather than
>inside any shed or garage, for exactly that reason, and made sure that
>the gas is turned off at the bottle, not just at the appliance.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[avag...@gmail.com]

tooling here.

I'm searching for a flexible electric drill extension, 12-18" long, use able for small bits. rotary brushes.

Finding long 3' extensions. Market tapped out for the season ?

[John B. Slocomb]

On Sun, 28 Dec 2014 20:07:21 -0800, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 29 Dec 2014 08:01:49 +0700, John B. Slocomb
><sloc...@invalid.com> wrote:
>
>>If you have, say a dozen, welding crews working 12 hour shifts you use
>>a lot of grinders and they do need frequent repairs. Our experience
>>was that any of the "big box store" grinders were just a waste of
>>money and that any of the so called "professional" grades still needed
>>frequent repairs.
>
>Actually, the "big box store" flavor of power tools are very useful
>when someone comes around wanting to borrow my tools. I usually have
>two sets. Junk tools to loan, and the good stuff for my own use. It
>saves quite a bit of time and money not having to repair the good
>tools.
>

A much cheaper method is to repeat the mantra "I don't loan tools"
from time to time.

>>By the way, there are companies that make brushes, nothing but
>>brushes, millions of brushes :-)
>>http://www.helwigcarbon.com/products/electric-motor-generator-brushes.html
>>https://www.mersen.com/en/products/electrical-solutions-for-motors-and-generators/carbon-brushes.html
>
>Before I scrapped it, I dragged the B&D 7550 grinder to the local tool
>repair shop for an estimate. They confirmed that replacement brushes
>were not available and offered to fix it for about 3 times what I paid
>for the tool. Most of the cost was ordering custom brushes from one
>of these vendors. When I pointed out that the plastic brush guides
>were warped and misaligned, they quickly changed their mind and
>declared the tool a total loss as it would probably crack the new
>brushes.

B&D are not really common over here. Borsch, made in Malaysia, and the
Japanese brands are what you usually see. The Borsch appear to be the
home owner sort of thing but I bought a 1/4" hand drill probably 15 or
so years ago expecting it to die at a young age and it is still going
strong.

>I have another B&D tool problem. I bought a B&D 18v drill motor and
>two batteries for about $35 at Home Despot about 3 years ago. It was
>similar to this model:
><http://www.walmart.com/ip/Black-Decker-18-Volt-Cordless-Drill/16779610.
>I successfully killed one of the battery packs in about 3 months of
>continuous use, but the other one survived. I was helping a friend
>move his office about a month ago, when I needed to drill some holes.
>Instead of the motor turning, smoke came out of the vent holes. In
>one graceful sweeping motion, I pulled the battery pack (hazardous
>waste) and tossed the drill motor into a recycling bin. I then walked
>over to a nearby OSH hardware store, and bought a $20 throw-away AC
>drill motor to finish the job.

I bought a battery operated electric drill after struggling with 40
feet of extension up a mast and rather liked it although it wasn't a
"high voltage" drill and would barely, if you were careful, usually
manage a 1/4" hole in sheet aluminum. I kept it for work aloft, and it
worked well, but eventually the batteries died and I sold the boat so
gave it to someone.

>I have about a dozen assorted older Makita power tools and maybe a
>total of 3 working battery packs. The tools are fine, but the NiCd
>and NiMH battery packs tend to die rapidly with aid of badly designed
>chargers. All that changed when the industry went to LiIon batteries,
>which seem to last forever. I consider these new tools wonderful, and
>the old tools a bad investment.
>
>Incidentally, I'm somewhat of an obsessive repairman, fixing most
>everything before I'll consider buying a replacement. I successfully
>repair everything from kids toys to computahs. After a lifetime of
>habitual repair, I can easily recognize the difference between a
>repairable tool and a throw-away tool. Over the years, the trend is
>definitely towards the throw-away variety, where reparability isn't
>even a consideration, and parts are either unavailable or seriously
>overpriced. See Harbour Freight products for how that works.
>
>Repair, don't recycle:
><https://www.ifixit.com/Manifesto>

Repairing tools is certainly something that sounds like a good idea
but it is really only practical to do yourself if the alternate is
watching TV. If you are billing 25 - 30 dollars an hour for your time
it takes you X hours to repair your tool it may well be cheaper to
just throw it away.

On the pipeline jobs I mentioned, if we had 12 welding crews then each
crew would have a grinder and we would have stocked an additional four
or five in the tool room to allow for repairs. On a job in Iran Jaya,
with the quickest resupply by the weekly crew change airplane we
usually kept twice what we had in use :-)

>The worst part of all this is the tendency for manufacturers to design
>for a specific product lifetime. Anything that lasts longer than the
>warranty period is considered over designed and a candidate for "cost
>reduction", which usually means to help it fail quicker. The ideal
>product would last one day longer than the warranty period, and then
>have multiple parts and components fail simultaneously. I've actually
>seen this happen with old CRT type Sony TV's. In the past, it wasn't
>possible to do this accurately, but today's simulation and modeling
>tools make it all too easy.

I once ran a motorpool for a company in N. Thailand that had 20 Datsun
pickups for the maintenance people. The trucks were hard used but not
abused and it was interesting that they all failed at just about
200,000 Km. and when they failed the whole truck died. The engine, the
starter, the generator, the transmission and the rear end would all be
either worn out, or very nearly so. I gave the Japanese engineers a
lot of credit for some pretty slick work.

>
>While it might apply to power tools, it also applies to bicycles. If
>you build a bicycle to win a specific race, it's perfectly acceptable
>to weight reduce the components to where everything will
>simultaneously fail just after crossing the finish line. Essentially,
>a minimum weight bicycle designed and built to survive exactly one
>race. I don't think anyone is doing this today, but if the trend in
>throw-away everything continuous, it won't be long before someone
>tries it.
>

I don't know about the whole bicycle but I did read mention of some
wheels for the bike used on climbs that were intended for a one time
use, and another mention in a different place of one of the top
Italian riders changing bikes for the down hill portion in the Giro (I
think). Perhaps it is done, although the downhill bike is probably
heavy :-)

>Oh yeah, the stuck seat post. I haven't tried using an oscillating
>multifunction power tool and tape measure yet, but plan to try it the
>next time I run into a stuck seat post.

My experience is that if the seat post is really stuck a tape measure
isn't going to do much good.

--
Cheers,

John B.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

The "standard" marine stove always used to be an alcohol stove, and
insurance requirements for LP gas on a boat DEMAND the tanks be
mounted "0verboard" so any leaks disburse outside of the boat.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Mon, 29 Dec 2014 18:58:27 +0700, John B. Slocomb

If it is a hollow seat post just stuff it with dry ice.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 12/29/2014 10:20 AM, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>
> If it is a hollow seat post just stuff it with dry ice.

Speaking as the OP:

The seatpost is certainly hollow, but not open at the top.

I visited the owner a few weeks ago on a cold day (low 30s F, IIRC). I
took along a heat gun, and he got the bike out of his unheated garage.
We packed the seatpost with snow and applied heat to the binder bolt
area on the steel frame. No joy.

But he hadn't done very much with penetrating oil or anything else.
It's obvious that he's not tremendously bothered by his stuck seatpost
(it's only a little low), and even less motivated now that his riding
season is over.

So this project of mine is moving to the far back burner. I'll let it
simmer until spring.

BTW, he told me once again that he'd moved the seatpost just a couple
weeks before he found it firmly stuck. That's the one aspect of this
that's the most puzzling to me. I'm astonished that it locked up so
thoroughly, so soon.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Sir Ridesalot]

Something not mating properly? Perhaps the seatpost is now lower and in an area of the seat tube that's narrower than the upper part? possibly the seatpost or seat tube is out of round?

Cheers

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 29 Dec 2014 18:58:27 +0700, John B. Slocomb
<sloc...@invalid.com> wrote:

>A much cheaper method is to repeat the mantra "I don't loan tools"
>from time to time.

I've tried that and found that it doesn't work for me. I try to be
generous, helpful, and tolerant, which includes loaning tools.
Overall, it seems to work well, except when I forget to whom I loaned
a tool, or when I can't find it, if they returned the tool. However,
I have to draw the line somewhere. I won't loan my automobile, guns,
or chain saws.

>B&D are not really common over here.

Consider yourself fortunate. A friend lives within walking distance
of a Harbor Freight retail store. He describes it like living next to
a drug dealer or liquor store. It's very difficult to resist
temptation.

Black & Decker certainly has changed over the years. I have some old
B&D drills from the 1960's that continue to work well. It's the
current offerings that I consider junk. I was going to mumble
something about DeWalt marginal quality, when I noticed that they have
been owned by Stanley Black & Decker since 1960. Enough said:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeWalt>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_%26_Decker>
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Black_%26_Decker>

>Borsch, made in Malaysia, and the
>Japanese brands are what you usually see. The Borsch appear to be the
>home owner sort of thing but I bought a 1/4" hand drill probably 15 or
>so years ago expecting it to die at a young age and it is still going
>strong.

Good to know. I don't have any experience with Borsch tools. If I
want something to last, it's Milwaukee, Makita, Rigid, Hitachi, and
maybe DeWalt.

>I bought a battery operated electric drill after struggling with 40
>feet of extension up a mast and rather liked it although it wasn't a
>"high voltage" drill and would barely, if you were careful, usually
>manage a 1/4" hole in sheet aluminum. I kept it for work aloft, and it
>worked well, but eventually the batteries died and I sold the boat so
>gave it to someone.

Try one of the LiIon battery powered drills next time. Lots of power
available. The brushless motors also have quite a bit of low end
torque. I'm too old to do tower work any more, so it's not an issue
for me. When I did, it was usually Sawzall cutting at 60 to 80 ft. I
used a rather heavy 100ft 10/3 extension with twist-lock connections.
After about 15 minutes, the extension cable was noticeably warm. If
there was any grease on the power plugs, the connection would get VERY
hot. Hauling up the cable by one end was futile. It had to be
winched up to the top in a coil, and then one end dropped.

>Repairing tools is certainly something that sounds like a good idea
>but it is really only practical to do yourself if the alternate is
>watching TV. If you are billing 25 - 30 dollars an hour for your time
>it takes you X hours to repair your tool it may well be cheaper to
>just throw it away.

Agreed. As I mentioned, I'm a compulsive repairman, which means that
I do uneconomical and absurdly expensive repairs. I should know
better. I also have a collection of rationalizations to justify my
actions. It also extends to my current business, computah repair,
which often involves unprofitable repairs. The worst part is that I
consider it fun to fix things, which takes the profit motive
completely out of the equation.

>I gave the Japanese engineers a
>lot of credit for some pretty slick work.

It was intentional. I've heard stories, possibly true, about how a
product is re-evaluated after a few years to see which parts lasted
past the expected lifetime. Then, those parts are "cost reduced" to
last not quite so long. After a few such design cycles, everything
tends to fail simultaneously, which is the primary design goal.

Incidentally, it's fairly easy to do with electrolytic capacitors in
electronic devices. Their lifetime is easily predicted if the
operating parameters (mostly ripple current) and temperature are
known.
<http://www.illinoiscapacitor.com/tech-center/life-calculators.aspx>
Same with semiconductors and power/temp stress cycles.

>I don't know about the whole bicycle but I did read mention of some
>wheels for the bike used on climbs that were intended for a one time
>use, and another mention in a different place of one of the top
>Italian riders changing bikes for the down hill portion in the Giro (I
>think). Perhaps it is done, although the downhill bike is probably
>heavy :-)

That's a start, but not quite what I was thinking. Drillium might be
a good way to create intentional stress risers, which would fail in a
predictable manner. For example, aluminum is susceptible to
repetitive fatigue failure, which is conveniently predictable. Here's
a good start by SRAM:
<http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/slides/080_srax13_0.html>

>>Oh yeah, the stuck seat post. I haven't tried using an oscillating
>>multifunction power tool and tape measure yet, but plan to try it the
>>next time I run into a stuck seat post.
>
>My experience is that if the seat post is really stuck a tape measure
>isn't going to do much good.

Agreed, but with some vibratory power behind the tape measure,
<http://www.harborfreight.com/power-tools/oscillating-tools.html>
it just might be able to slither in between the seat post and seat
tube. As I understand it, the problem is that the rust from the seat
tube has imbedded itself into the aluminum seat post. If the tape
measure can break up the rust, it should release the seat post. If
not, I might try a pneumatic welding descaler. Anyway, it seems
easier than caustics and explosives.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 29 Dec 2014 10:56:20 -0500, Frank Krygowski
<frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>BTW, he told me once again that he'd moved the seatpost just a couple
>weeks before he found it firmly stuck. That's the one aspect of this
>that's the most puzzling to me. I'm astonished that it locked up so
>thoroughly, so soon.

Did he leave it in the rain or was there high humidity?

My guess(tm), based upon very limited personal experience, is that the
rust from the seat tube, has embedded itself into the aluminum seat
post. I don't know how much pressure can be produced by expanding
rust, but I know from experience that it's substantial and certainly
enough to penetrate soft aluminum. Such rust expansion is a major
problem in reinforced concrete, where rusting rebar will crack the
concrete. Anyway, I don't think it takes much rust expansion to jam
the seat post.

Incidentally, I once stupidly polished the inside of the seat tube on
my ancient Miyata 610. After that, I could never quite get the seat
post to lock. It would always rotate and slip, no mattery how much I
tightened the seat post clamp. Fortunately, it would mostly rotate,
not telescope, so it was tolerable.

Eventually, I got tired of dealing with the problem, so I ran a wire
brush attached to a drill motor into the seat tube to rough up the
surface. I then let it rust a little. That was the end of the loose
seat post problem. It has become a bit sticky over the years, but a
little penetrating oil usually breaks it loose.

Hmmm... I haven't checked that seat post in a few years. Stay tuned.