White Lightning vs Pedros Ice Wax?
joel roth
or are they basically the same product?
Thanks.
Joel
Werehatrack
<jr...@nospam.medicine.bsd.uchicago.edu> may have said:
>Any significant differences between White Lightning and Pedros Ice Wax,
>or are they basically the same product?
All first-hand reports I've had from users in this area have been to
the effect of "don't use either one". These were from off-road
riders, not roadies. Both products reportedly resulted in squeaky
chains within a period of a couple of days to a week or so. A number
of online sites also have similar statements.
I have not used either product myself. I considered trying them, but
I saw too many negative reports and decided that a product with that
high of a cost factor needed to have a better rep before I'd try it.
Many conventional chain lubes also get negative reports due to the
fact that they collect dirt; I ignore those, since *any* wet lube will
be likely to have that problem. The reports I heed are those
recounting squeaks, fast wear, and post-wet-ride corrosion, which are
commonly mentioned for dry lubes and bottled waxes of all types.
FWIW, I tried using a hot wax method on one of my chains, and
abandoned it this week when it became clear that after three months of
light-duty intermittent usage, it wasn't living up to expectations.
I'm back to using motor oil on all of my bikes now.
--
My email address is antispammed; pull WEEDS if replying via e-mail.
Yes, I have a killfile. If I don't respond to something,
it's also possible that I'm busy.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
Ken
news:upt2rvgigtstr7o22...@4ax.com:
> All first-hand reports I've had from users in this area have been to
> the effect of "don't use either one". These were from off-road
> riders, not roadies. Both products reportedly resulted in squeaky
> chains within a period of a couple of days to a week or so.
The label on Pedro's Ice Wax says you need to reapply it before *every* ride.
Michael Dart
"joel roth" <jr...@nospam.medicine.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote in message
news:3FB1650...@nospam.medicine.bsd.uchicago.edu...
> Any significant differences between White Lightning and Pedros Ice Wax,
> or are they basically the same product?
>
I remember mtb'ing with my friends who used WL when it first came out. They
always said "This stuff it the greatest!" every time they stopped (usually
2-3 times) during a ride to re-apply the stuff. Especially after creek
crossings. Needless to say I was not impressed. I've used Pedro's Extra
Dry for years with excellent results. I usually apply it the night before a
ride 1 drop per roller to allow penetration time. Then wipe off with a rag
to 'clean' the chain. Another friend of mine uses Ice Wax and applies it
before riding and generally has nothing to say about it good or bad. I
think it kind of defeats the purpose of a 'dry' wax lube using it like this
however.
Mike
MikeYankee
I've used PIW happily for several years on road bikes. Chains stay clean,
quiet and well lubricated; and last well. I wipe off the old and reapply every
2-3 rides, and I don't ride in the rain unless caught.
Last year I "discovered" Pro Link and began using it as an experiment on my
fixie and beater/rain bike. I like PL well enough to use it on all my bikes
once my current supply of PIW, still used on my "good" bikes, is finished.
Several years back I used White Lightning experimentally on my beater/rain
bike. It seemed to lubricate very well, but was messy (casting off clods of
dirty black wax that would stick to the bike and sometimes my shoes, and get
tracked into the house, etc.) and did not hold up well in the rain. PIW is
better in the rain than WL, but not as good or long-lasting as PL.
Mike Yankee
(Address is munged to thwart spammers.
To reply, delete everything after "com".)
Scott Schelle
chance of rain (I live on the East Coast). During those times it does a good
job of lubricating the chain with little dirt/grit pick up.
In the fall and winter, when it is rainy and slushy, I have found that the
Prolink washes off, so I have switched to Finish Line Cross Country, which I
have found is much more water resistant.
"MikeYankee" <mikey...@aol.comic.book> wrote in message
news:20031111203328...@mb-m20.aol.com...
Sorni
news:3FB1650...@nospam.medicine.bsd.uchicago.edu...
> or are they basically the same product?
Essentially the same, I'd say (yes, I use both). Ice Wax has a thicker
consistency than WL, but otherwise seems to work identically (and pretty
well IME).
Bill "frequent luber but hardly ever degreaser" S.
Werehatrack
Rather pointless to use it, then, in my opinion. Anything sold as a
lube which doesn't persist for more than a single day is more work
than it's worth.
VINCENTGEE
>or are they basically the same product?
I think so. I'm a PIW fan true and true. We don't have a lube sponsor so I get
to choose what I like and I like Pedros stuff in general.
I've used a ton of lubes in a ton of different conditions. In every choice
there are pluses and minuses. What are your needs and what are not?
Comparing PIW to WL is easy for me. PIW seems to be more durrable than WL. No
wax lube will last like wet lubes which is obvious.
PIW collects way less dirt than wet lubes and thus helps drive trains (chains,
cogs, rings) last much longer. Lube a chain more often (with a wax based lube)
to keep it much cleaneer is a easy choice for me. I don't always want to clean
"MY" bike but I like my chain to be clean as possible as long as possible. Wet
lubes get dirty faster regardless of brand and thus wear out chains faster.
Time/labor difference:
Lube a chain every other day for a month with a wax lube?
15 seconds of labor times 15 days = less than 4 minutes/month.
Add cleaning chain once a month (10 minutes per chain/cog cleaning -- if I'm
really fast) = 14 minutes of my time/month.
Lube a chain with a wet lube?
15 seconds times 4 (once a week I lube) = 1 minute/month
Add cleaning my chain once a week (10 min times 4 = 40 minutes). That's 41
minutes of my time cleaning chains per month.
Unrelated to quality is the ugly "Fogy look" you get with WL. I like PIW which
keeps a chain looking shinny longer. Pure looks here. I think it is cool to
have a clean/shiny drive train (as long as you can between cleaning)
But if you are riding in rain/sand/dirt/mud a wet lube may be nessisary to last
through the rain/sand/dirt/mud. PIW will not last in rain so you got to do some
work cleaning no matter what if you want to keep your drive train clean (at
least as much as I like).
So for rain days there are other optios. Two of my favorites are:
Pedros Syn lube for down pours
New road rage for light wet rides
Vincent Gee -- Mechanic US Postal
OK, I can hear the million Questions flying and all the odd comments too. But
for now, this is all I care to say.
David Damerell
>Werehatrack <rau...@earthWEEDSlink.net> wrote in
>>the effect of "don't use either one". These were from off-road
>>riders, not roadies. Both products reportedly resulted in squeaky
>>chains within a period of a couple of days to a week or so.
>The label on Pedro's Ice Wax says you need to reapply it before *every* ride.
--
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Distortion Field!
flatline
I don't care much for Pedro's Ice Wax, after trying it out on my
chain. But I found that it works great as a lube on my Speedplay
pedals.
r.b.
vince...@aol.com (VINCENTGEE) wrote in message news:<20031112061321...@mb-m22.aol.com>...
> >Any significant differences between White >Lightning and Pedros Ice Wax,
> >or are they basically the same product?
>
>
Ken
news:Pie*q3...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk:
>>ride.
> Well, _that_'s practical.
If you're a mountain biker who gets their bike covered in mud after every
ride, you'll probably want to wash it down after every ride. Relubing the
chain makes sense.
Wax lubes make no sense for roadies. If you don't wash off the old wax
regularly, it will just gum up your drivetrain.
David Damerell
>>>ride.
>>Well, _that_'s practical.
>If you're a mountain biker who gets their bike covered in mud after every
>ride, you'll probably want to wash it down after every ride.
Will I? Won't it just get dirty again?
I think any given lube recommendation should mention if it's only fit for
bikes used as toys, not purposefully. If you ride twice a day every day
you can't be messing about with the chain each time.
Werehatrack
<dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> may have said:
>Ken <nos...@no.no> wrote:
>>David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in
>>>>The label on Pedro's Ice Wax says you need to reapply it before *every*
>>>>ride.
>>>Well, _that_'s practical.
>>If you're a mountain biker who gets their bike covered in mud after every
>>ride, you'll probably want to wash it down after every ride.
>
>Will I? Won't it just get dirty again?
I think they're referring to a level of contamination that would have
a swamp buggy owner dropping by the local firehouse to borrow a hose.
Fossilization occurs in strata thinner than such encrustations.
>I think any given lube recommendation should mention if it's only fit for
>bikes used as toys, not purposefully. If you ride twice a day every day
>you can't be messing about with the chain each time.
There is also a school of thought which says that when proceeding from
Point A to Point B, if there is a large mucky spot between them whose
traversal would result in a 20% increase in total gross weight of the
rider/cycle combo, it is prudent *not* to ride through that mucky
spot. Adherents of this school tend to spend more time riding and
less washing their equipment in my experience. This appears to
include the vast majority of for-transport riders, a group whose
numbers have been growing in this area of late, as well as roadies,
most pleasure riders, and even the majority of mountain bike riders.
It seems that there's this local attitude among the latter group that
if you ride the trail when it's mucky, you'll hasten erosion, and
thereby speed the arrival of the day when the trail will not be there
for anyone to ride. This is viewed as being a Bad Thing.
Eagle Jackson
For lubing my Speedplay pedals (especially Frogs), a wax lube is
great. I have tried a few, including Pedros, Finish Line, and White
Lightning. I like WL the best but they are all good.
Matt Locker
I personally think White Lightning is the worst stuff you can put on
your chain. I generally use Ice Wax on my bikes and am happy with the
results. WL seemed to be good for about 10 miles if lucky before the
drive train started making noise, even when applied the day before the
ride. Ice Wax seems to be good up to century distances. If you're
riding more then you may want to use a traditional lube. Finish Line
Century Lube is the best for long rainy rides but it makes the
drivetrain NASTY over time. FWIW, I've found it best to apply a light
coat of oil to the chain the first time before using the Ice Wax, and
then maybe a couple times during the riding season. I believe the oil
is a better lube & that the Ice Wax on top of it helps protect the
inners from the environmental crud (dirt, mud, ...). I wipe the chain
with an old sock before adding new Ice Wax. That brings up the other
issue with WL. WL transforms into a brick-like substance as time goes
by. I had to use a pick to get it off my tandem cogs when I was using
it. Ice Wax stays fairly soft and is easy to clean out of the nether
regions of the drivetrain.
I ride on the road so YMMV on a mountain bike.
MOO,
Matt
Tony Scilipoti
> There is also a school of thought which says that when proceeding from
> Point A to Point B, if there is a large mucky spot between them whose
> traversal would result in a 20% increase in total gross weight of the
> rider/cycle combo, it is prudent *not* to ride through that mucky
> spot. Adherents of this school tend to spend more time riding and
> less washing their equipment in my experience.
Hi. Funny post. Thanks.
I'm guessing you live in a dryish place. Where I ride in northern New
England, except in July and August the driest line often runs right
through a "large mucky spot". Going around the spot on one side might
mean going up to your bottom bracket in water, and going on the other
side might mean an outright swim. It's not that I selfishly and
irresponsibly refuse to wait a day or two until things dry out; it's
just the way life is where the climate is wet, the average temperature
is cool-going-on-cold, and solid bedrock lies four inches under the
topsoil. Needless to say a post ride wash - bike, rider, socks, shoes,
gloves - is mandatory virtually every time. (Except that right now my
bike is dirty - I couldn't wash it after my last ride because the
garden hose was frozen solid.)
- Tony
Werehatrack
have said:
>Werehatrack <rau...@earthWEEDSlink.net> wrote in message news:<v265rv8jfulf3ssv5...@4ax.com>...
>
>> There is also a school of thought which says that when proceeding from
>> Point A to Point B, if there is a large mucky spot between them whose
>> traversal would result in a 20% increase in total gross weight of the
>> rider/cycle combo, it is prudent *not* to ride through that mucky
>> spot. Adherents of this school tend to spend more time riding and
>> less washing their equipment in my experience.
>
>Hi. Funny post. Thanks.
>
>I'm guessing you live in a dryish place.
Well, actually, I moved here for the cool, dry climate. I'm in
Houston, TX. [1]
>Where I ride in northern New
>England, except in July and August the driest line often runs right
>through a "large mucky spot". Going around the spot on one side might
>mean going up to your bottom bracket in water, and going on the other
>side might mean an outright swim. It's not that I selfishly and
>irresponsibly refuse to wait a day or two until things dry out; it's
>just the way life is where the climate is wet, the average temperature
>is cool-going-on-cold, and solid bedrock lies four inches under the
>topsoil.
Here, bedrock is a mere illusion. There are hard clay layers about 30
feet down, but above that it's all subject to becoming semifluid.
>Needless to say a post ride wash - bike, rider, socks, shoes,
>gloves - is mandatory virtually every time. (Except that right now my
>bike is dirty - I couldn't wash it after my last ride because the
>garden hose was frozen solid.)
I knew there was a reason that I didn't want to move north of Dallas.
[1] I'm not kidding about having moved here for the cool, dry climate
and the wonderful variety provided by the change of seasons. But
then, I grew up in Miami...which is an excellent place to be *from*.
Very, very *far* from.
Carl Fogel
Dear Matt,
My ignorance of wax is staggering, so please forgive
what may be a silly question.
I thought that the idea was to remove all the oil
and grease from the chain and to replace it with
wax.
But you seem to be saying that you oil your chain
first and then apply Ice Wax.
Does the Ice Wax mix with the oil? I have a vague
notion that it's water-based and am flummoxed by
the idea that oil and water are mixing here. The
wax suffers in the rain, doesn't it?
When my lavishly over-oiled chain meets the rare
rainy day here in Colorado, the normally black
heavy gear oil turns noticeably gray, so some
kind of mixing seems possible.
So do you wax users normally slather wax on
oily chains or clean oil off the chains first?
Does it make much difference in terms of how
well the wax or wax-oil works in the wet?
Carl Fogel
Ian S
news:8bbde8fc.03111...@posting.google.com...
> When my lavishly over-oiled chain meets the rare
> rainy day here in Colorado, the normally black
> heavy gear oil turns noticeably gray, so some
> kind of mixing seems possible.
Actually, it's forming an emulsion in which small droplets of one phase are
dispersed in the other phase. I suspect the lubricating properties are
severely compromised.
>
> So do you wax users normally slather wax on
> oily chains or clean oil off the chains first?
I remove the oil first. Here in the dry dusty Arizona desert, the PIW seems
to work pretty well on my road bike. I can keep the chain cleaner and reduce
the frequency of taking the chain off for a proper cleaning which, since it
is a Shimano with little break-off replacement pins, I try to avoid.
Matt Locker
Carl Fogel wrote:
Carl:
My opinion is that it's really not about oil or wax, it's about making
the chain stay clean & quiet. I've found over the 4 or so years that
I've been using IceWax that this combination works well for me. I just
sort of stumbled on the combo treatment but recognized the difference it
made. I use very little oil on the rollers when I first do it, &
usually let it sit for a night before wiping off any excess & then
putting the Ice Wax on. I always give the IceWax at least a night
before I ride, whether it's post oiling or not. I've tried putting
IceWax on a really oily chain but it doesn't seem to work. I suspect
that the excess oil thins the IceWax too much. The small amount that I
put on doesn't do that, or at least it doesn't thin it excessively.
That's what works for me!
MOO,
Matt
ma bi
lubing-greasin the links.stop
Carl Fogel
Dear Matt,
Am I right in guessing that the overnight wait is
meant to let the oil or liquid wax seep into the
chain rollers before removing the messy excess, or
is there some other theory involved?
Carl Fogel
Matt Locker
lubing the chain, most of it will be flung off.
I'll restate what I said yesterday in a different way since I realized
it wasn't correct. It's not about oil or wax it's about keeping the
chain clean while keeping it lubed. The quiet aspect is a result of the
lube. Durability is a result of the clean. However you do that is the
right way for you. For me, it's the combo treatment.
MOO,
Matt
Mark Hickey
>Am I right in guessing that the overnight wait is
>meant to let the oil or liquid wax seep into the
>chain rollers before removing the messy excess, or
>is there some other theory involved?
The wax-based lubes work by suspending wax particles in an inert
carrier that allows them to run freely into the innards (techie term)
of the chain. The carrier then evaporates, leaving a waxy deposit
behind.
If you don't give the carrier time to evaporate, it will facilitate
the wax escaping from the inside of your chain to the outside (or
maybe to your calf), making the application of lube nearly worthless.
Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame
Carl Fogel
Dear Mark,
I now have an enjoyable vision of famous bicycle
racers frantically waving hair-dryers at their
recently waxed chains on a cold morning just
before starting time.
Thanks,
Carl Fogel
Per Elmsater
> Dear Mark,
>
> I now have an enjoyable vision of famous bicycle
> racers frantically waving hair-dryers at their
> recently waxed chains on a cold morning just
> before starting time.
>
Vision?? You mean you've never seen that ;)
--
Perre
You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
Carl Fogel
> Carl Fogel wrote:
> > Dear Mark,
> >
> > I now have an enjoyable vision of famous bicycle
> > racers frantically waving hair-dryers at their
> > recently waxed chains on a cold morning just
> > before starting time.
> >
>
> Vision?? You mean you've never seen that ;)
Dear Perre,
The closest I've come is seeing world champion
trials riders using borrowed hair-dryers to warm
up their cold rubber Dunlop boots on an icy morning.
While out loud I agreed that those pampered sissies
from Europe had finally revealed that they weren't
men enough to compete in Colorado, I secretly
thought that:
a) they could ride rings around us backwards
b) my feet were awfully goddamned cold
c) the women loaning the hair-dryers looked like
splendid mechanics, even if they'd forgotten
to take the boots out of the trucks overnight
Bitterly,
Carl Fogel
Per Elmsäter
;-)) You crack me up sometimes
I'm sure you could lube anything just with your imagination.
Bennett Fischer
joel roth <jr...@nospam.medicine.bsd.uchicago.edu> wrote:
> Any significant differences between White Lightning and Pedros Ice Wax,
> or are they basically the same product?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Joel
>
I've used both these products and they are basically the same, but with
some differences in practical usage. Pedro's is thicker and lasts a
little longer - maybe 70 miles. WL wears off after 30 miles,tops. Both
are *clean* in that relatively little road grit sticks to them, but I
find that WL is a sloopy mess to use, getting all over the chain stay
and rear wheel because you really have to slather it on to get the
necessary chain coverage. Both are very expensive per application.
I way prefer the *dry* or *semi-dry* synthetic, petroleum based lubes
such as Pro Link, Finish Line, Tri-Flow, eg. They're also pricey per
bottle, but much more economical per application.
Cheers,
Bennett Fischer
Brooklyn,NY
richard
and 150-200 for IceWax. No, my drive train is NOT worn out.
To the question at hand, both leave deposits. However, the WL deposits
take solvent to remove. Pedro's deposits can be scraped off reasonably
easily. A removed part can be finished off with soap and water.
WL, especially RaceDay, tends to precipitate. Once this happens (rather
than a fine milky mixture, it's clear with clumps the size of sand
grains), it can't be used. I've not yet had my IW precipitate, so I
don't know if it does that or not.
[snip]