Spacing of rear dropouts for Sachs 8 speed Freewheel and Campy Rrcord Hubs?
Leonard Caplan
During the process of having my Masi Gran Criterium repainted, I decided
to have the rear dropouts widened to take a freewheel wider than the 6
speed that was on it. The width was increased to 130mm, which I was told
was wide enough to take an 8 speed freewheel, or even the new Campy 9
speed if I wanted to convert over to cassette hubs.
I just got the frame back, and low and behold, there seems to be no way
this will work.
I am using Campy Record hubs, and with just the cone and end cap on the
non freewheel side, and the proper amount of spacers on the freewheel
side, there is not enough depth to mount a Sachs 8 speed freewheel
without the freewheel overlapping the end of the axle.
I am totally confused since I have been told that 130mm spacing is
standard for 8, or now 9 speed setups.
Can anyone help?
TIA
Len
Pete Ruckelshaus
Leonard Caplan wrote:
>
> During the process of having my Masi Gran Criterium repainted, I decided
> to have the rear dropouts widened to take a freewheel wider than the 6
> speed that was on it. The width was increased to 130mm, which I was told
> was wide enough to take an 8 speed freewheel, or even the new Campy 9
> speed if I wanted to convert over to cassette hubs.
>
> I just got the frame back, and low and behold, there seems to be no way
> this will work.
>
> I am using Campy Record hubs, and with just the cone and end cap on the
> non freewheel side, and the proper amount of spacers on the freewheel
> side, there is not enough depth to mount a Sachs 8 speed freewheel
> without the freewheel overlapping the end of the axle.
>
If you are using your old hubs (by Campy Record 6s, may I assume Nuovo
Record?), the spacing COULD be as narrow as 120mm (Ultra-6 FW). In any
case, you need at the very least a longer rear axle (145mm?) and enough
mechanical knowledge to know what the standard overlocknut dimensions
are for such a setup, and the spacer/cone combo that you need to use to
bring things up to that spec.
> I am totally confused since I have been told that 130mm spacing is
> standard for 8, or now 9 speed setups.
>
It is.
> Can anyone help?
>
A bike shop would be a good place to start. This isn't meant as a
flame, but if you've been stopped cold in your tracks by this, you're
probably better off taking your bike to a decent shop, where they can
space out your rear wheel and adjust your RD accordingly. Also, don't
be surprised if you get lots of chain rub up front.
Pete
Leonard Caplan
>>
>
>A bike shop would be a good place to start. This isn't meant as a
>flame, but if you've been stopped cold in your tracks by this, you're
>probably better off taking your bike to a decent shop, where they can
>space out your rear wheel and adjust your RD accordingly. Also, don't
>be surprised if you get lots of chain rub up front.
>
>Pete
It was my LBS that told me that the 8 Speed would work with this setup.
The LBS happens to be probably the best on Long Island, with a good Pro
dept.
I guess that their experience is with current Campy Cassette Hubs using 8
speed gears. In speaking to people, it seems that 130mm is the maximum
that anyone uses as far as spacing....I don't think that Campy even makes
a longer axle than what can be used with a freewheel with Record hubs.
I am just as curious as to what hub could use this size freewheel on a
road bike since the Shimano hubs seem as if they have the same width as
the Campys.
I can return the 8 speeds and get 7 speeds FW's, but would prefer to go
with the 8s if possible.
Len
Frank Jaworski
sounds like your trying to use a 120mm spaced axle in a 130mm spaced
dropout. For your setup to work with eight speed, you need to also have
your axle spaced at 130mm measured from the outside edges of the locknuts.
You will probably need a new axle if you are trying to use the original.
--
ja...@intellisys.net
Pete Ruckelshaus <mud...@pond.com> wrote in article
<32C156...@pond.com>...
> Leonard Caplan wrote:
> >
> > During the process of having my Masi Gran Criterium repainted, I
decided
> > to have the rear dropouts widened to take a freewheel wider than the 6
> > speed that was on it. The width was increased to 130mm, which I was
told
> > was wide enough to take an 8 speed freewheel, or even the new Campy 9
> > speed if I wanted to convert over to cassette hubs.
> >
> > I just got the frame back, and low and behold, there seems to be no way
> > this will work.
> >
> > I am using Campy Record hubs, and with just the cone and end cap on the
> > non freewheel side, and the proper amount of spacers on the freewheel
> > side, there is not enough depth to mount a Sachs 8 speed freewheel
> > without the freewheel overlapping the end of the axle.
> >
>
> If you are using your old hubs (by Campy Record 6s, may I assume Nuovo
> Record?), the spacing COULD be as narrow as 120mm (Ultra-6 FW). In any
> case, you need at the very least a longer rear axle (145mm?) and enough
> mechanical knowledge to know what the standard overlocknut dimensions
> are for such a setup, and the spacer/cone combo that you need to use to
> bring things up to that spec.
>
> > I am totally confused since I have been told that 130mm spacing is
> > standard for 8, or now 9 speed setups.
> >
>
> It is.
>
> > Can anyone help?
> >
>
rin...@aol.com
As you have discovered, old Campy Record freewheel hubs have a problem
with 8 speed freewheels. By the time you add enough spacers to the right
side of the axle, the over lock nut dimension is greater than 130mm.
An acquaintance of mine has this set up. He hates it. His wheel has more
than 130mm over locknut dimension. He has to spring his frame open every
time he installs the wheel. He also has to replace the axle every now and
then (he's bent two in one year at last count).
As I see it, you have two choices: live with the more-than-130mm hub
spacing and spring your frame open every time you install the wheel, or
buy a hub made for eight speeds.
I strongly recommend buying a hub made for eight speeds. The Record hub
has more dish (the wheel is less reliable), and the axle is more likely to
bend.
Sachs makes a good hub for eight speed freewheels, and there are many good
cassette hubs available.
Hope this helps,
Damon Rinard
Steven L. Sheffield
In article <59sl14$6...@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>, Leonard Caplan
<72254...@compuserve.com> wrote:
> rin...@aol.com wrote:
> >As you have discovered, old Campy Record freewheel hubs have a problem
> >with 8 speed freewheels. By the time you add enough spacers to the right
> >side of the axle, the over lock nut dimension is greater than 130mm.
> >
> >An acquaintance of mine has this set up. He hates it. His wheel has more
> >than 130mm over locknut dimension. He has to spring his frame open every
> >time he installs the wheel. He also has to replace the axle every now and
> >then (he's bent two in one year at last count).
> >
> >As I see it, you have two choices: live with the more-than-130mm hub
> >spacing and spring your frame open every time you install the wheel, or
> >buy a hub made for eight speeds.
> >
> >I strongly recommend buying a hub made for eight speeds. The Record hub
> >has more dish (the wheel is less reliable), and the axle is more likely to
> >bend.
Have you tried recentering the axle so that you have even fewer
spacers on the non-drive side, and room for more spacers on the
drive side?
Oh, sure, this leads to insanely dished rear wheels, but it does
allow you to put an 8-speed freewheel on a hub that's designed
for 6.
--
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Leonard Caplan
"Frank Jaworski" <ja...@intellisys.net> wrote:
>sounds like your trying to use a 120mm spaced axle in a 130mm spaced
>dropout. For your setup to work with eight speed, you need to also have
>your axle spaced at 130mm measured from the outside edges of the locknuts.
>You will probably need a new axle if you are trying to use the original.
I have replaced the axel with a 136 mm one. The outside of the locknuts
are spaced at 129.5 mm. All of the extra spacers are on the freewheel
side of the hub, and I am still about 4mm short of being able to make it
work.
Len
Leonard Caplan
rin...@aol.com wrote:
>As you have discovered, old Campy Record freewheel hubs have a problem
>with 8 speed freewheels. By the time you add enough spacers to the right
>side of the axle, the over lock nut dimension is greater than 130mm.
>
>An acquaintance of mine has this set up. He hates it. His wheel has more
>than 130mm over locknut dimension. He has to spring his frame open every
>time he installs the wheel. He also has to replace the axle every now and
>then (he's bent two in one year at last count).
>
>As I see it, you have two choices: live with the more-than-130mm hub
>spacing and spring your frame open every time you install the wheel, or
>buy a hub made for eight speeds.
>
>I strongly recommend buying a hub made for eight speeds. The Record hub
>has more dish (the wheel is less reliable), and the axle is more likely to
>bend.
>
>cassette hubs available.
>
>Hope this helps,
>
>Damon Rinard
Thanks;
This is what I suspected.
Len
Leonard Caplan
There _are no_ sapcers on the non free wheel side. The length of the
Record Hub + the size of the Sachs Freewheel measures 132.5mm.
I had my bike spaced out to 130 mm, and besides, I cant find an axle long
enough even if I wanted to have the frame widened a bit more to
accomodate it. Anyway I am not sure even if I could find a Campy axle
long enough, I am not sure it wouldn't flex due to the long size.
Thanx,
Len
ste...@veloworks.com (Steven L. Sheffield) wrote:
>In article <59sl14$6...@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>, Leonard Caplan
><72254...@compuserve.com> wrote:
>
>> rin...@aol.com wrote:
>> >As you have discovered, old Campy Record freewheel hubs have a problem
>> >with 8 speed freewheels. By the time you add enough spacers to the right
>> >side of the axle, the over lock nut dimension is greater than 130mm.
>> >
>> >An acquaintance of mine has this set up. He hates it. His wheel has more
>> >than 130mm over locknut dimension. He has to spring his frame open every
>> >time he installs the wheel. He also has to replace the axle every now and
>> >then (he's bent two in one year at last count).
>> >
>> >As I see it, you have two choices: live with the more-than-130mm hub
>> >spacing and spring your frame open every time you install the wheel, or
>> >buy a hub made for eight speeds.
>> >
>> >I strongly recommend buying a hub made for eight speeds. The Record hub
>> >has more dish (the wheel is less reliable), and the axle is more likely to
>> >bend.
>
Terry Rudd
Steven L. Sheffield (ste...@veloworks.com) wrote:
: In article <59sl14$6...@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>, Leonard Caplan
: <72254...@compuserve.com> wrote:
: > rin...@aol.com wrote:
: > >As you have discovered, old Campy Record freewheel hubs have a problem
: > >with 8 speed freewheels. By the time you add enough spacers to the right
: > >side of the axle, the over lock nut dimension is greater than 130mm.
: > >
: > >An acquaintance of mine has this set up. He hates it. His wheel has more
: > >than 130mm over locknut dimension. He has to spring his frame open every
: > >time he installs the wheel. He also has to replace the axle every now and
: > >then (he's bent two in one year at last count).
: > >
: > >As I see it, you have two choices: live with the more-than-130mm hub
: > >spacing and spring your frame open every time you install the wheel, or
: > >buy a hub made for eight speeds.
: > >
: > >I strongly recommend buying a hub made for eight speeds. The Record hub
: > >has more dish (the wheel is less reliable), and the axle is more likely to
: > >bend.
: Have you tried recentering the axle so that you have even fewer
: spacers on the non-drive side, and room for more spacers on the
: drive side?
: Oh, sure, this leads to insanely dished rear wheels, but it does
: allow you to put an 8-speed freewheel on a hub that's designed
: for 6.
So much so that you will either spend a lot of money or a lot of time
keeping the rear wheel true. I did just this and the drive side spokes
were almost vertical to center the rim properly relative to my
modernized Record hub ;-). It was a very poor long term solution. I
also did this with a Shimano 600 6-speed hub, upgrading it to allow for
a 7 speed Sachs on my commuter and it worked better but have noticed a
slightly bent axle recently. The real solution is to upgrade the hub
or live with 6 or ultra 7 freewheels, I think.
Regards,
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Terry Rudd | Hewlett Packard/Fort Collins Site | (970) 229-2217 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Requisite Disclaimer: HP speaks for HP, I speaks for me and that's that. |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kristan Roberge
Leonard Caplan <72254...@compuserve.com> wrote:
>
> There _are no_ sapcers on the non free wheel side. The length of the
> Record Hub + the size of the Sachs Freewheel measures 132.5mm.
>
> I had my bike spaced out to 130 mm, and besides, I cant find an axle long
> enough even if I wanted to have the frame widened a bit more to
> accomodate it. Anyway I am not sure even if I could find a Campy axle
> long enough, I am not sure it wouldn't flex due to the long size.
>
Get an axle from a Campy Record O.R. hub or order a replacement
axle from Wheels Manufacturing (which specializes in small parts for
shimano, suntour, and campy hubs, bottom brackets, and headsets).
Leonard Caplan
>
>Get an axle from a Campy Record O.R. hub or order a replacement
>axle from Wheels Manufacturing (which specializes in small parts for
>shimano, suntour, and campy hubs, bottom brackets, and headsets).
The longest axel made for a Campy Hub is 135mm in length...and that is
what I used. This allows 130 mm spacing with 2.5 mm on each side to fit
into the dropouts. A Record hub mounted with a Sachs 8 speed freewheel
is longer than 130 mm, and thusly will not fit into 130mm spacing.
Len
Kristan Roberge
Leonard Caplan <72254...@compuserve.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Get an axle from a Campy Record O.R. hub or order a replacement
> >axle from Wheels Manufacturing (which specializes in small parts for
> >shimano, suntour, and campy hubs, bottom brackets, and headsets).
>
> The longest axel made for a Campy Hub is 135mm in length
If that was true, it would be impossible for Campy Record O.R. hubs
to work in MTB frames as the dropout spacing is 135mm and the overall
axle length was 146mm the last time I measured one.
> what I used. This allows 130 mm spacing with 2.5 mm on each side to fit
> into the dropouts. A Record hub mounted with a Sachs 8 speed freewheel
> is longer than 130 mm, and thusly will not fit into 130mm spacing.
then why did you ask the question in the first place?!?
Leonard Caplan
When I asked the question I did not know the answer....I just had a
problem.
After receiving some intelligent responses, I now have the answer.
Thanx for your interest.
Len
Kristan Roberge
then why did you ask the question in the first place?!?
Leonard Caplan
When I asked the question I did not know the answer....I just had a