Bicycle trivia

[Andre Jute]

Old cyclists can remember when Basil's Cardiff pannier basket cost Euro 16.99, delivered, and a Bob Jackson custom-built road bike, fully fitted out with aspirational parts, left a hundreds in change out of a thousand pounds.
>
Everyone except the Gang of Scum are invited to add their own trivia.
>
Andre Jute
Punctilio pays.
>

[Tom Kunich]

On Monday, September 5, 2022 at 10:44:56 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> Old cyclists can remember when Basil's Cardiff pannier basket cost Euro 16.99, delivered, and a Bob Jackson custom-built road bike, fully fitted out with aspirational parts, left a hundreds in change out of a thousand pounds.
> >
> Everyone except the Gang of Scum are invited to add their own trivia.

The cost of even old used bikes these days is pretty shocking. And here I am waiting for components to assemble the bikes so that they are not a danger to ride. It is easy to get a stem for $50 that is as heavy as a log. I was looking at a Basso Astra made from Oria tubing (which is slightly lighter than the Columbus versions). Being lighter is not the real point. The Oria tubing doesn't bounce as much as the Columbus tubes do.

But the man wanted over $900 for the frameset and shipping. Now, it does appear to be a nice frameset in good condition but the worth of that is closer to $300 and the last frameset I got from Austria was in a box torn to shreds. The frameset inside was fine but no thanks to the packing.

How long do you suppose he will have it up for sale before it strikes him that it isn't worth that to him or anyone else? I bought my Loto for $700 plus shipping and used the components to build a frameset I had laying around and sold that for $600 and it was an Eddy Merckx Elite. The Basso is the team version made of the Oria tubing also. So I paid a quarter of what I would have to get that Basso Astra. I presently have two bikes left to sell and I intend to strip the Chorus group off of the Colnago C50 and install that on the Aliverti. Then I will probably either install the Centaur group on it and sell it or simply sell it as a frameset for a reasonable price.

The inflation hitting bicycles and their components are people dreaming until the 3rd month when nothing has sold. Then suddenly the prices change.

[Andre Jute]

It's an appalling comment on the quality of conversation generally on RBT that one has to explain, as you do above, that the market works. To channel that great Liberal, Winston Churchill, capitalism is the worst possible economic system, except for all the others, especially centrally directed planning aka communism. -- AJ
>

[Tom Kunich]

Or in other words - Communism is the most desirable method of government of the stupid six. I can hardly wait until Biden is forced to cut off military retirements because of his reckless spending. What do you suppose Slow Johnny is going to say then?

[Andre Jute]

Where Biden starts from is a service which was already paying large bounties to experienced men, especially sergeants, to sign on again rather than retire, so he doesn't have a whole lot of leeway. Then this woke bullshit accelerated the rate at which men (and presumably women and the other(trans)-sexed or indeterminates left the armed forces.
>
If you mean Biden keep the soldiers on the job till they're older before allowing them to require, America will be a laughing-stock, with jokes about the Army of Granddads.
>
If you mean cut retirement pay and benefits, even Biden isn't stupid enough to commit suicide.
>
Even Biden cannot be unaware that the training and experience of the American infantryman and Marine over the last generation has tended towards clearing out ghettos building by building, street by street, basically urban guerrilla fighting (compare with the previous generation who were trained and experienced as tropical bush guerrilla fighters). Anyone who thinks Antifa and the BLM were dangerous will get a very rude shock when trained and experienced American infantry start marching on Washington to demand the retirement and benefits for which they risked their lives in the service of their country. If the doddering Donkey Party thinks the police will fire on them, that will be their first painful disillusionment.
>
Andre Jute
The first necessity of political survival is to keep the military and the police onside.
>

[AMuzi]

Groundless speculation. You (and I) have absolutely no idea
how that would resolve, or even if such protest happens at all.

Last time, Gen MacArthur cleared them out easily in an
afternoon:

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/bonus-marchers-evicted-by-u-s-army

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[John B.]

On Mon, 5 Sep 2022 11:26:24 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich

Well, Tommy, tell us why Communism IS NOT a desirable form of
government?

I have a good friend who grew up in Communist Hungary and he tells me
that in his youth there was no unemployment, no homeless, free medical
and dental care, free education thru collage, 2 weeks paid vacation
and even free sport - he mentioned he belonged to a "Glider Club", and
even free old age pensions.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Andre Jute]

We'll see. But I've actually seen revolutions in action, and I wrote a pseudonymous novel about the mechanisms of a revolution (which eventually worked out very much as I described fifteen years before), and described another in a set of eight novels. The pseudonymous novel was realistic enough to get me declared a traitor and permanently exiled, and was taught by Brigadier Clutterbuck to civil servants and anti-terrorist paramils in the UK, and on the reading list of the Institute of Strategic Studies in London, and similarly esteemed by officialdom in translation, etc. It's Spanish edition was a bible of South American revos, though regrettably its sales didn't reach the 3.5m copies in Spanish that its sister volume did. I sit on a mountain of research and considerable firsthand experience, so I'll stick to the opinion I already expressed. -- AJ

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

Just 2 weeks paid vacation? I doubt many would be happy with that today. I was in a glider back in Switzerland in summer 1992. Fun. I was the backseat passenger, not the pilot. Had to have a regular plane tow us up into the air of course.

[Andre Jute]

You and your friend are really gullible, monstrous examples of gullibility. See, Slow Johnny, the Soviets were master of statistics. They could make statistics prove anything. They were like a million lying Frank Krygowskis rolled into one. fWhat they actually made statistics prove is, in your own naive account:

>"there was no unemployment, no homeless, free medical
> and dental care, free education thru collage, 2 weeks paid vacation
> and even free sport "

Instead of asking Tom to prove the obvious, that Communism failed, it would be smart to ask why such a paradise as you paint collapsed. Here, let me help you out:
It is true that there was no official unemployment because instead they had underemployment, in which people were paid for jobs doing nothing. For instance on a collective farm I visited when I lectured on the productive use of statistics in Russia in Brezhnev's little perestroika, there was a shed with some dusty tractors with their heads off and some men leaning over the spiderwebs in the open cylinders, smoking, They were the farm's mechanics and the youngest was over fifty, and those tractors hadn't run since before WW2. So what were those men doing for years on end? I saw one spit into a cylinder but that was the only action I observed in there. The women worked the fields manually. Those men were building up the stats of the "employed".

It is true that there were no official homeless but i wouldn't put my dog (incidentally Russian Borzoi) in the housing in Moscow, and in the provinces it was worse.

It is true there was free low-quality medical care if you were still alive after the endless waiting list, the endless corruption to get your name moved up the waiting list.

It is true that you could get all your teeth extracted and be given an ill-fitting denture with stainless steel teeth instead after suffering toothache through the waiting lists and the corruption.

Members of the elite took their operations and tooth care in Switzerland. That should tell you everything you want to know.

Russia had some superb schools but they were hogged by the children of the elite, who bribed the administrators to get them in because your education would determine the rest of your life.

As for free sport, were you hatched under a chook, Slow Johnny? Do you really think Joe Ruski could rock up to the glider club and say, "Where are my free lessons and tow planes and gliders." You're even slower than I expected. Your Hungarian friend was clearly the child of a bolshi cheroi, a big boil. Such expensive sporting facilities were the preserve of the elite, and the elite was not by merit, but by being nash, one of us, a Communist Party cardholder.

I know why the Soviet Union and Russia collapsed; I forecast it. So you needn't reply because I'm not interested in any more of your naivety.

Now fuck out of my threads, you surplus clown.

Unsigned out of contempt.

[Andre Jute]

On Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 1:01:14 AM UTC+1, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> Just 2 weeks paid vacation? I doubt many would be happy with that today.
>

How misleading can you be in just two short sentences? You, moron, has it occurred to you that in a police state you're blithely, loudly happy with what the state gives you because you're happier with your life than with being shot in the back of the neck for expressing you unhappiness, or sent to the Gulag, where you life expectancy was under thirty months. You're quite as incompetent with history as you are with numbers, Russell Seaton or Eaton WETF your name is.

Now stop polluting my thread with your ignorance and poor judgement. Piss off.

Unsigned out of contempt for a little man can get nothing right.

[John B.]

When I was working building drilling sites in the jungles of Indonesia
there was no vacation, per se, rather you worked 12 hours a day for
one month - 4 weeks - and then "went to town" for an equal amount of
days.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Andre Jute]

Nobody cares about your nostalgia, Slow Johnny.
>
Go start your own thread, dickhead. We have a height restriction here. It means we don't want a shortass like you.
>
Unsigned out of contempt for an ill-mannered lout trying to push his way in where he isn't wanted.

[Tom Kunich]

The US military cannot be used in a MILITARY ACT against US civilians according to the Posse Comitatus Act enact in, I think, 1878 and updated as late as 2021. That Biden has threatened the American people with using the military in spite of the law shows you just what he thinks of his own power and what sort of respect he has for the actual law.

[Tom Kunich]

We have seen that as an economic major that blithering idiot Seaton is on a par with Biden.

[Tom Kunich]

Imagin Slocum thinking anyone cares what he claims to have done?

[AMuzi]

pfffft. See link above 1932.
As every Administration notes from time to time, 'Laws are
for other people'.

[Tom Kunich]

Illegal acts of the government do not nullify the law.

[John B.]

On Tue, 6 Sep 2022 11:53:07 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich

And once Tommy exhibits his ignorance of what he is talking about.

The Posse Comitatus Act he mentions pertains only to the Army and Air
Force to prohibit then from participating in civilian law
enforcement...... unless doing so is expressly authorized by a statute
or the Constitution. (another amendment pertains to the Navy and
Marine Corps)

The Insurrection Act, enacted in 1792, specifies that in response to
a state government’s request, the president may deploy the military to
suppress an insurrection in that state.

In addition, the Insurrection Act allows the president — with or
without the state government’s consent — to use the military to
enforce federal law or suppress a rebellion against federal authority
in a state, or to protect a group of people’s civil rights when the
state government is unable or unwilling to do so.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 6 Sep 2022 11:53:07 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>The US military cannot be used in a MILITARY ACT against US civilians according to the Posse Comitatus Act enact in, I think, 1878 and updated as late as 2021. That Biden has threatened the American people with using the military in spite of the law shows you just what he thinks of his own power and what sort of respect he has for the actual law.

"Defense Primer: Legal Authorities for the Use of Military Forces"
<https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF10539>
"Congress has provided approximately 50 statutory authorizations to
use the military forces for foreign or domestic purposes - not
including formal declarations of war."

If you really think you can win against the US military, all you have
to do is cross the gap between a "peaceful" (armed) protest and an
insurrection.
<https://www.yourdictionary.com/insurrection>

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

I majored in Accounting Tommy. Not Economics. I did take several Economics courses to achieve my major. Tell us Tommy, what Economics courses have you taken and passed?

[John B.]

I've been re-reading some of George V. Higgins' books and in "The Rat
on Fire" one character describes another as being "So stupid that he
can't fall out of a tree and hit the ground".

I thought of Tommy (:-(

--
Cheers,

John B.

[Andre Jute]

Piss off out of my thread, Shortass.
>

[Andre Jute]

Fuck off out of my thread, Seaton or Eaton or whatever your wretched name is.
>

[Tom Kunich]

Seaton makes Slocum look like a genius. He majored in accounting and took economics courses to achieve that. And yet he doesn't have a clue how economics works. If Slocum were ever to grow to wonder about anything concerning economics he would read a book about it. I'm sure that he wouldn't be able to understand a word of it but like Google he would quote it to the word. Seaton, on the other hand can't even remember the simplest things he learned. Like arithmetic.

[Andre Jute]

Nah, now that Russsellllleconsomething, I'm wondering why all my life, as an economist, I let myself be limited by reality, which is what economics come down to in the final analysis. Now that I'm a prophet of Russsellllleconsomething, economics will be what I say it is, because I say so, also known as the Krugman Fallacy. -- AJ
>

[Tom Kunich]

I'm imagining exactly how Seaton can be so fucking stupid that he didn't absorb one word of the books on economics that he was required to learn in college. But I suppose I shouldn't be surprised when a supposed accountant can't accomplish simple math problems.

[Andre Jute]

It's very odd, you know. The first thing we used to teach the freshers in micro-economics (in a properly constructed economics faculty, there are micro and macro divisions for undergraduates, macro is government finances and the GDP, roughly speaking) is that demand and price move inversely proportionate to each other, not at all a difficult concept to grasp (most concepts in economics are simple, even obvious, if explained right). But how Eaton or Seaton WETF his name may be can fail to know that first principle if he brags of taking economics courses, is entirely incomprehensible. More, it is a practical effect in everyday life and business that any bookkeeper will stumble over many time every month. So what sort of business did the wretched little man work in where he couldn't learn this much? Maybe something wrong with his ears, or his memory is failing in his sunset years, or he is even stooooopider than you think. -- AJ

[Tom Kunich]

99 out of 100 books on economics deal with inflation the same way - you do not increase money supply any more rapidly than the growth of GDP. And we have absolute positive evidence of that because the Fed increases the money supply slightly more rapidly than the growth of the GDP just in case of a more rapid growth of GDP than predicted. But they have very good prediction and this increasingly rapid increase in the money supply has caused our US dollar to today be worth 1/20th what it was in just the last 72 years.

So we have absolute documented evidence of what has been done by increasing the cash supply more rapidly than the growth in the GDP and mind dead freaks like Seaton and Kragowski deny it. This is so entirely mentally ill that if we were able to ban people from this site for gross stupidity they would be the first out the door.

https://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/1940?amount=1

By the way - that was from 10 years ago. TODAY that figure is more like 1/40th. Thanks lefties.

[John B.]

Tell me about this increase in cash supply? How does that work? Does
Biden get up every morning with a wheelbarrow and shovel and go out
and strew dollar bills up and down the road?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

In classical macro economics there's a printing press.
Now it's more efficient- just a few keystrokes!

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/q/quantitative-easing.asp

But the principle has not changed.

And speaking of principle, just as Congress has deputized
various Departments, Agencies and Bureaus to do the dirty
work on which Congress would prefer not to vote, the
Administration at any given time always claims that monetary
policy is out of its hands and the responsibility of the Fed
Chairman. Nice artifice, that.

Want to see our future?. It looks like Argentina. Or Weimar.

https://www.investopedia.com/modern-monetary-theory-mmt-4588060

[Frank Krygowski]

On Thursday, September 8, 2022 at 9:16:39 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
>
> In classical macro economics there's a printing press.
> Now it's more efficient- just a few keystrokes!
>
> https://www.investopedia.com/terms/q/quantitative-easing.asp
>
> But the principle has not changed.
>
> And speaking of principle, just as Congress has deputized
> various Departments, Agencies and Bureaus to do the dirty
> work on which Congress would prefer not to vote, the
> Administration at any given time always claims that monetary
> policy is out of its hands and the responsibility of the Fed
> Chairman. Nice artifice, that.
>
> Want to see our future?. It looks like Argentina. Or Weimar.
>
> https://www.investopedia.com/modern-monetary-theory-mmt-4588060

Yet somehow, inflation is worldwide, not just in America! It's almost as if
a worldwide pandemic has had big effects on production, demand, and
supply chains; along with Russia throttling natural gas flows in retaliation for
nation's not letting Putin take control of any country he wants.

Isn't that weird? Supply and demand actually seem to have effects!

- Frank Krygowski

[John B.]

I was asking Tommy about how the cash actually gets into the hands of
the population. I know how the system works but I'm trying to discover
if he actually knows what he is talking about. He, for instance, uses
the word "Communist" like a curse and to date I've asked him a number
of times to explain what the word means and, apparently, he can't
explain it.

But borrowing massive amounts of money seems more like the Greeks, who
did just that.... for a while (:-(
--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

Oh, did I say it was a USA only phenomenon?

I happen to think we're horrible failures as regards fiscal
responsibility (several administrations and Congresses over
a long run) but among nations we're neither at top nor bottom.

I have not checked but I wonder how Sweden (no lockdowns, no
enforced wealth transfer from small businesses to large
ones) looks monetarily? quick search:

https://tradingeconomics.com/sweden/currency

Not different from other European countries really so looks
like that's not the critical factor.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

Do you honestly believe that? US is going to become a copy of Argentina for inflation? Inflation is 70% in Argentina right now. As for the Weimar Republic, that resulted in Adolf Hitler. Trump and his followers attempted that on January 6, 2021. And have been preparing to attempt it again ever since. There is a possibility they will succeed.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

I think a better measure would be GDP per capita for western European countries. And US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Japan.

https://datacommons.org/ranking/Amount_EconomicActivity_GrossDomesticProduction_Nominal_PerCapita/Country/europe?h=country%2FSWE&unit=%24
2020
Sweden $51,925
Finland $49,041
Norway $67,294
Denmark $60,908
USA $63,543
Canada $43,241
Netherlands $52,304 (for Lou)

As for Sweden not locking down during the worst part of Covid, they ended up killing more people compared to their neighbors Norway and Finland, which had lockdowns. And did not benefit from better GDP growth. So they seemed to kill their people for no benefit or purpose. Seems like a failure to me.

[Tom Kunich]

Attempting to teach economics to Seaton or Slocum from a prospective of historic results of MMT will get you nowhere. these people are willing to believe anything their heroes, the leftists, tell them.

That article did somewhat concern me. Apparently he believes that we should have stayed on the Gold standard. We did not for a very simple reason - there was insufficient gold to support the growth in GDP after WW II. The price of gold today is $1700/oz. A couple of months ago it was over $2,000/oz. This is a representation of the faith the moneyed public have in the dollar under this government. It has been this high since Obama was in office. Were we to have remained on the gold standard the actual cost of gold compared to the number of dollars in circulation would have been over $10,000/oz. So we were FORCED off of the gold standard by our own productivity.

[Tom Kunich]

Like it or not, the US dollar IS the standard exchange rate of the world that idiot Krygowski simply doesn't understand. Inflate the dollar and the WHOLE WORLD pays the price. Could we deflate the dollar to a reasonable level? Certainly, but not when you'd have people like Krygowski sniveling 24 hours a day.

[AMuzi]

That's not true. Sweden's overall experience was quite
similar overall for death but not for totalitarianism,
wanton destruction etc.

[AMuzi]

in re Sweden:

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/sweden-saw-lower-2020-death-spike-than-much-europe-data-2021-03-24/

further:
https://fee.org/articles/sweden-saw-lower-mortality-rate-than-most-of-europe-in-2020-despite-no-lockdown/

Which has many informative links. As always Central
Planning failed. Or failed the population anyway, The
Planners are just fine, thank you, looking forward to their
next Plandemic.

[Jeff Liebermann]

The data generally doesn't support correlation of deaths and
lockdowns. This is a graph I threw together of confirmed deaths per
million population vs timeline.
<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/covid-19-deaths-by-country.png>
<https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths>
In early 2020 and 2021 the largest number of deaths per 1M population
was in the UK, a country with major lockdowns.
Sweden did not have lockdowns and showed about half the death rate of
UK. Norway and Finland had lockdowns and far fewer deaths than
Sweden. So Sweden was half way between UK and either Norway or
Finland.

However, the graphs became weird during the next two peaks. Finland,
which had done quite well in 2020 and 2021, had large increases in
deaths. However, many countries were going in and out of lockdown in
early 2022, so I have no idea what happened in Finland.

Notice I'm doing confirmed deaths, not confirmed cases or test
results.

[John B.]

Sorry Tommy but you are wrong again. At least two countries that I
have lived in - Indonesia and Thailand - deliberately decreased the
value of their currency vis a vis the U.S. dollar with no effect
whatsoever on local prices.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Fri, 9 Sep 2022 11:52:47 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich

Sorry Tommy but you are wrong again... you seem to be batting about
1,000 today.

The U.S. abandoned the so called "gold standard" because it didn't
work. Basically because the official price of gold fell below the
international selling price and countries like France used undervalued
U.S. dollars to buy the cheap U.S. gold and then sold it on the
international market for a higher price.

And, the price of gold is, basically, set by the London OTC market
with additional input from the U.S. Futures market and the Shanghai
Gold Exchange.

It might be added that on the international gold market scene the U.S.
is almost a non player. The major gold buying countries are, India and
Chine. the U.S. is way, way, behind either of these two countries. In
rough numbers China consumes 900 tonnes and India 850 tonnes on an
annual basis while the U.S. consumes less then 200 tonnes.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_death_rates_by_country
Covid deaths per million population as of 9/9/2022
Sweden 1911
Germany 1777
Netherlands 1296
Denmark 1189
Canada 1167
Finland 1041
Norway 741
USA USA USA!!!!!!!!! 3115
Poland 3059
Britain 3057

Sweden's closest neighbors, Norway and Finland, had more strict lockdowns, AND ended up with fewer deaths. Sweden wasn't the worst. No. USA, Poland, UK, killed people much better than even Sweden. But Sweden did a HELL of a LOT WORSE in killing its citizens than its closest neighbors because it did not want to lock down its people. And I think we had other threads where we showed Sweden did not escape with no economic decline. It had very similar loss of GDP. Similar high unemployment. Sweden did not benefit economically from its no lockdown approach. Sweden just killed more of its citizens. For no benefit. Is that wise?

[Frank Krygowski]

I'd like to see data that accounted for more than two variables - that is, lockdowns and death rates.

I've mentioned this before regarding comparisons between U.S. states. Montana is so different from
(say) New Jersey as to be nearly a different universe. I suspect that idea applies to various European
countries. If true, the appropriate comparison would be between countries similar in most ways.

Are Sweden, Norway and Finland pretty similar? I've spent a little time in two of those, but not enough
time to really know.

- Frank Krygowski

[Andre Jute]

First time I heard you ask an intelligent question, Franki-boy -- in thirteen or fourteen years!
>
The answer is sure, they're grouped together as Scandinavians, with the Danes, for considerably more than mere geography.
>
First of all, Sweden is a major industrial hub, and has a huge service sector, whereas Norway and Finland are still semi-serious agricultural producers and exporters, agriculture contributing half as much again as a percentage of GDP. Clearly people in factories are likely to be closer to other workers in the same factories than agricultural workers are to other agricultural workers, and of course this applies even more in service industries, so the proximity inputs to deaths in a epidemic are different. Here's a little table, from memory, arranged as rounded percentages of total GDP by Country/Agricultural/Industrial/Service:
SWEDEN/2/27/71
NORWAY/3/38/59
FINLAND/3/28/69
DENMARK/5/19/76
Of course you should look up the numbers for yourself. My memory isn't infallible. The CIA yearbook, of which I'm sure you have a well-thumbed copy, is a convenient, authoritative reference. But I think we can say as a first hypothesis that Norway, with a relatively smaller service sector, *should* do better in an epidemic vectored by the air we breathe.
>
Considering the table above, the Danes are heavily into service, a postindustrial society without having ever been a mainly industrial society (cf Norway, still on its way). However, Denmark is a major food producer and exporter, so that the contribution of agriculture to their GDP is much more than double that of the Swedes. But, all in all, you'd better accept that Norway is the odd man out, and will be, maybe for another generation.
>
I contribute these numbers merely because someone else suggested we use GDP numbers. But a far more directly useful analysis would be not to use a proxy like GDP, which has many problems of its own (like variant productivity, built into GDP comparisons), but to consider the part of the population engaged in each of these activities, a straightforward head count. After the head count, it may be prudent to apply an adjustment for the type of industry on some kind of a personal space theory that I shall be happy to provide for half a mil or so. However, I must say up front that I have zero faith in the CDC/Fauci 2m separation standard; those people have been exposed as convenience liars too often.
>
Andre Jute
Numbers can be a hugely exciting adventure.
>

[Andre Jute]

POSTSCRIPT
On whatever parameter, if truly dissimilar countries are wanted, it isn't too smart to look at mickey mouse differences between Scandinavian countries, because critics would consider the small difference teased out to make a point to be beyond acceptable sophistry. Instead it might be smarter to compare the four countries above as a manner of internally equalising basket with four new accessions to the EU, say two from Eastern Europe plus two from the Balkans. Statistically this would also help reduce the influence of unknown inputs we cannot expect to be aware of. -- AJ
?

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

GDP was also mentioned. And Sweden showed no appreciable difference in GDP decline than the other Scandanavian countries. So Sweden ended up with no lockdowns, MORE FREEDOM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, no difference in economic GDP, and MORE deaths. Than their more or less identical neighbors.

I have not been to any of these Scandinavian countries. I am just assuming they are all similar. We call them the Scandanavian countries after all. So they must have something in common. Norway does of course have a large stake in North Sea oil. So their GDP is affected by this more than the other two. And Norway has been saving their oil money for decades now so may have more savings and a better economy than the other two. The Scandanavian countries are similar to the way we say Middle East. We lump all of the Middle East countries into the same pool. Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iraq, Iran, Kuwait, UAE, Qatar, Oman. To us and most of the rest of the world, they are all the same.

[AMuzi]

Official reporting on 'cause of death' is wildly variable,
influenced by haste/incompetence and bureaucratic/political
factors. Much has been written on the wide gulf between
'died with chinese virus' and 'died of chinese virus'.

I linked elsewhere to overall population wide excess deaths
which sums the effects of the bioweapon itself and the
pernicious policies in various jurisdictions. There were
places where the 'cure' was numerically worse than the disease.

[AMuzi]

You know better than that.

By your standard you'd lump Canada with USA because we both
speak a form of English. pffft.

[Frank Krygowski]

Hmm. When unbiased data shows lockdowns had benefit, it becomes time to wave one's hands
and vaguely hint that the data may have errors?

That sounds pretty weak.

> I linked elsewhere to overall population wide excess deaths
> which sums the effects of the bioweapon itself and the
> pernicious policies in various jurisdictions.

I wish you'd drop the "bioweapon" shtick. If it were truly a weapon, the Chinese would not
be repeatedly using it on their own people and their own economy.

- Frank Krygowski

[Catrike Rider]

Why, yes, the chinese do treat their people so wonderfully.

>- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

+1

In the mid-1960s with their first nuclear devices, CCP's
nuclear strategy was that since the overwhelming bulk of
China and Chinese people had no technology more advanced
than an oxcart, the Party would survive any nuclear attack
and later prevail against societies more dependent on
complex systems.

[Tom Kunich]

Lockdowns most definitely work to reduce airborne disease spreading. The US hasn't had ANY seasonal flu epidemics over the last two years because of this and that is pretty much proof positive that it does work.

But at what cost? We KNOW that masks don't stop seasonal flu so what would cause idiot people to wear masks in the mistaken belief that they would protect them from a virus very similar but smaller than a seasonal flu virus? Lockdowns and masks accomplished one thing - they shut down the productivity of America. They put HALF of the workforce out of work.

This stupid mask wearing has caused severe social anxiety among schoolchildren who just like other animals take a great deal of social ques from facial expressions. If my cat can tell my mood by looking at my face why wouldn't a child?

I put this mask mania directly in the camp of school teachers who were supposed to know better and didn't.

Now we have a leftist government sprouting all over the world with fascist beliefs and evil intent. Here on this group I can see large volumes of postings that could only be coming from the stupid six since normal people aren't being shown. This groups would say absolutely anything because not one of them have a brain in their heads.

I was going to show a picture of Krygowski but it also included his address so unlike the stupid six, I don't advertise the addresses of others on this group or not. I also found a reference that said that four names were associated to that address but it appears after inspection that it is slightly different names of Frank and his wife. So my earlier statement about Frank living with his kids was probably wrong.

[Tom Kunich]

Pericarditis leading to death, Myocarditis leading to death, abnormal cancers leading to death and something called VAIDS that leads to death can all be caused by the vaccines. While these aren't large numbers a medical examiner may not have any idea of the vaccination history of an individual and can simply list the cause of death as the specific cause and not mention that this was caused by the vaccines themselves. VAIDS in particular has no way of tracing its cause without a full medical history of an individual.

[Tom Kunich]

The population density and sources of income of the Scandanavian countries vary widely so of COURSE Seaton is going to act like they are all the same. Why should that surprise anyone? "Sweden (and industrial based economy) has more deaths per capita so that can be blamed upon their refusal to follow Fauci's stupid advice since Finland (a largely agricultural country) has a lower number of deaths per capita" Of course Seaton knows nothing about the vaccination rates, the population density or the other particulars but he will say stupid things because that is what he does,

[Tom Kunich]

The research that Fauci was paying for in China was "gain of function". This was the development of a bioweapon on the grounds that someone else might do that and that we should be ready. This sort of research is highly illegal in the USA which is why he was conducting it in China which likes the money he was paying them.

So while the SARS-Cov-2 was not directly a bioweapon, it was supposed to simulate one and once lose from the lab, it effectively was a bioweapon.

Krygowski doesn't like using the term of what the SARS-Cov-2 is? Color me surprised. He could hide any negative thing about the Biden administration.

[Tom Kunich]

I don't know how many Chinese immigrants are in your area but California has a lot. Those that know how to look discover that MOST of the Chinese Christian Churches were place in very out-of-the-way areas because they were used to the Chinese government going so far as to kill Chinese Christians for believing in anything other than their communist government. Now that most of the Chinese Christians have fled China, I'm told that their government is now turning the same treatment upon the Muslims.

[John B.]

But that is true in most "developing" economies. We live in a village
about 200 km N.E. of Bangkok and I just asked my wife if we could get
along if the two big Super Stores we have here were to close. She said
that there would be no problems but she'd have to "go to the market"
every morning to buy the day's food, like I did when we were first
married", rather then the once a week foray we make now days..

--
Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 1:40:48 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
> On 9/10/2022 11:53 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
> > On Sat, 10 Sep 2022 09:04:26 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
> > <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I wish you'd drop the "bioweapon" shtick. If it were truly a weapon, the Chinese would not
> >> be repeatedly using it on their own people and their own economy.
> >
> > Why, yes, the chinese do treat their people so wonderfully.
> >

> +1
>

Seriously?? Are you two saying it's likely that China purposely released this virus on their own
people in order to harm other countries??

That's ludicrous. The virus has done, and continues to do great damage to the Chinese economy.
It would do even more damage if they had more virus casualties. But they didn't promote infections.
Instead they took extreme measures trying to isolate the infections and stop the spread despite
the economic damage.

If you see some way that those events prove the "bioweapon" hypothesis, please give us the details.

- Frank Krygowski

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

I suspect in most of the rest of the world, they do lump USA and Canada together. Western, North America, English speaking, Caucasian, Christian religion, descendants from England and the rest of Europe, Democracy government, etc. Go to Africa or Asia and to all of them, Canadians and Americans are the exact same thing.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

They do treat their economy wonderfully. As Frank pointed out, they would not implement a lock down on Shanghai and suppress exports and production. And endanger a world wide recession which would have a major detriment on China since they are the exporters to the whole world. China has enough smart economists to understand they need the rest of the world to prosper so they buy Chinese goods. Which make China prosper. Unlike many Americans who think we have to beat the others down to make ourselves on top.


> >- Frank Krygowski

[John B.]

Well (:-) they are both 'mericans" (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Ralph Barone]

Go to Canada and they’d disagree.

[John B.]

According to what I read China did in fact lock down Shanghai... from
what I understand there was several levels of lock down starting with
certain areas being closed and later the entire city. From roughly
March 2022 til 1 June
--
Cheers,

John B.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

Tommy, you think Finland is an agricultural based country? Everyone here knows you are stupid. But this statement really reinforces that.

Population
Norway 5.5 milion
Sweden 10.5 million
Finland 5.5 million

GDP
Norway 362 billion
Sweden 570 billion
Finland 266 billion

GDP per capita
Norway $67,294
Sweden $51,925
Finland $49,041

Ethnicity
Norway 75% born in Norway with two parents born in Norway (assume this means Caucasian white)
Sweden 66.5% born to two Swede parents, 7.6% born to one Swede and one foreign parent (I'd say that is pretty Caucasian white)
Finland 86.9% Finnish and 5.2% Swedish (I'd say that is pretty Caucasian white too)

I could not find any list of what sources supply GDP for each country. This is the best I could find.
GDP share
Norway 52.5% service, 35.6% industry, 1.6% agriculture
Sweden 65.3% service, 22% industry, 1.35% agriculture
Finland 59.6% service, 24.8% industry, 2.38% agriculture

Religion
Norway 68.7% Lutheran
Sweden 55.2% Lutheran
Finalnd 66.6% Lutheran

Other than the oil Norway has in the North sea, all of the Scandanavian countries are pretty identical.

Covid vaccination
Norway 74.7%
Sweden 75.9%
Finland 78.4%

Covid deaths per 100K population
Norway 73.86
Sweden 198.09
Finland 104.1
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

Density per square kilometer
Norway 18
Sweden 26
Finland 15
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/countries-by-density

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

I wrote "Go to Africa or Asia". I did not write go to Canada and ask them if Americans are different. Or go to USA and ask if Canadians are different. I'm sure in Andorra, they think they are very different than the French and Spanish.

[John B.]

On Sat, 10 Sep 2022 22:56:55 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"

Shoot... them Canadians are different. Why, Some of them speak French
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Catrike Rider]

On Sat, 10 Sep 2022 20:47:59 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski

<frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 1:40:48 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 9/10/2022 11:53 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>> > On Sat, 10 Sep 2022 09:04:26 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
>> > <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> I wish you'd drop the "bioweapon" shtick. If it were truly a weapon, the Chinese would not
>> >> be repeatedly using it on their own people and their own economy.
>> >
>> > Why, yes, the chinese do treat their people so wonderfully.
>> >
>> +1
>>
>
>Seriously?? Are you two saying it's likely that China purposely released this virus on their own
>people in order to harm other countries??
>
>That's ludicrous. The virus has done, and continues to do great damage to the Chinese economy.
>It would do even more damage if they had more virus casualties. But they didn't promote infections.
>Instead they took extreme measures trying to isolate the infections and stop the spread despite
>the economic damage.
>
>If you see some way that those events prove the "bioweapon" hypothesis, please give us the details.
>
>- Frank Krygowski

I, for one, said nothing of the kind, but it wouldn't suprise me if
China was developing the virus as a bioweapon and it got away from
them. OTOH, China is not noted for treating their citizens with
compassion. Their primary in that regard is simply to control them.

[Catrike Rider]

On Sat, 10 Sep 2022 21:43:40 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"

I don't believe they delibrately released the virus on their own
people, but they could have been developing it as a bioweapon and
stupidly let it get away from them.

[Catrike Rider]

...and in much of the USA, as well. It's hard to understand why
Canadian citizens put up with Trudeau, but then Californians put up
with Newsom. Some people just seem to prefer being under government
control.

[AMuzi]

> Go to Canada and they’d disagree.
>

+1

[AMuzi]

+1

[Tom Kunich]

Krygowski simply CANNOT use that thing in his head to think with. Fauci PAID China to build a 1st class biological containment laboratory in Wuhan. They did not propose that and we HAVE the actual bills that Fauci covered using the taxpayer money. We ALSO have the communications from Fauci to the Wuhan facility to use Gain Of Function research on a possible bioweapons. Believe me, China would not do this of their own accord if they weren't well paid.

We also know that Fauci did this because such research is not only illegal in this country but in most of the developed world.

So exactly why do you suppose that SARS virus suddenly infected and then killed several of this containment facility when that virus was ONLY naturally occurring 1,200 miles away? I told everyone here that over the years I've had several run-ins with Fauci and that I have never known him to make one single intelligent decision and I have never understood how he could possibly be made the head of the CDC when he is a blithering idiot.

Frank sees Fauci as a God just like he cannot believe that I was actually in the presence of another of his God's - Jimmy Carter - since I was a project manager of something of interest to the government.

Frank is not only a complete and utter fool but his stupid supporters here know a tenth as much as he does which is zero.

Frank thinks he is protected by the Freedom of Speech while he does anything he can to limit that freedom in others.

[Tom Kunich]

It got away from them. Just like this argument of the ignorant stupid six here - they believe that you can be protected from a virus when the best masks on the market have breathing pores 200 times larger than the virus. Research on viruses is very difficult because they can slip through practically anything and all it takes is ONE virus in the right spot at the right time to avoid your immune system and multiply into millions which in this case was an airborne virus that would float about an infected person like a cloud. Since more than half of the infected are totally asymptomatic, they wouldn't even know that it was being spread with each breath they took.

Luckily it is a rather harmless virus which is only dangerous to 0.02% of the population and they have to be very old and very sick. It has virtually no effect on children with a sharply active immune system.

The Democrats welcomed this virus and described it as a thousand times more dangerous than it is. This gave them the ability to use it to commit election fraud. The Slime Stream Media backed them up 100% and now we discover that the FBI was also engaged in election fraud. Bezos publicly admitted that the FBI told them that everything Trump said was Russian disinformation. But he was also himself engaged in the great lie to the public.

[Ralph Barone]

I have heard (possibly apocryphal) stories about American tourists going to
Europe with Canadian flags sewn on their backpacks in the hope of being
treated better than the rest of their countrymen, so maybe Africans or
Asians DO make a distinction between the USA and Canada.

[Ralph Barone]

It’s hard to understand why American citizens put up with Trump. People are
funny.

[AMuzi]

>>> Go to Canada and theyÂ’d disagree.

>>
>> ...and in much of the USA, as well. It's hard to understand why
>> Canadian citizens put up with Trudeau, but then Californians put up
>> with Newsom. Some people just seem to prefer being under government
>> control.
>>
>

> It’s hard to understand why American citizens put up with Trump. People are
> funny.
>

I'll take a fat obnoxious jerk who's very good at his job -
full employment, lower taxes, secure border. Not just sorta
OK, but very good at it. (telling Kim Jon Fatboy to piss off
was nice but not compelling. Finally moving our embassy to
Jerusalem as Congress voted long ago but several Presidents
refused, was also nice but again not compelling)

Unlike many of our fellow RBT readers, I have employed
people with deeply offensive personalities or habits or
foibles who yet came in every day to make money for the
company. We have a standard and that's it. An employee is
not a spouse, for whom different standards may apply.
Employment does not require unconditional love.

[Frank Krygowski]

> > I suspect in most of the rest of the world, they do lump USA and Canada
> > together. Western, North America, English speaking, Caucasian, Christian
> > religion, descendants from England and the rest of Europe, Democracy
> > government, etc. Go to Africa or Asia and to all of them, Canadians and
> > Americans are the exact same thing.
> >
> Go to Canada and they’d disagree.

I think it's extremely common for outsiders to notice the similarities among siblings' looks.
They are contrasting siblings' facial characteristics, postures and mannerisms with people who
are not members of that family. I think siblings may be more aware of differences among themselves.
One brother may say "I'm four inches taller! And my hair isn't grey! And he's skinny!"

I think the same principle applies to members of nations. Which comparison is most appropriate?
It depends on context.

About members of nations: When we were in Venice, Italy eating at an outdoor cafe, we met and had
some great conversation with another American couple. We're from a small suburban village in Ohio; they were from Chicago. He was probably six inches taller than me and 40 pounds heavier. We were
traveling budget style, including by bike. They were traveling luxury style. And they were black - or more
accurately, very very dark brown. We're a much, much lighter shade of tan. Or maybe beige. Or ecru?
Whatever.

But among all those Italians and tourists from other countries? Hey, we four were Americans! We were
almost the same! We felt like we'd grown up together!

- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 2:28:19 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
>
> Shoot... them Canadians are different. Why, Some of them speak French

I wonder if the European French agree with that!

- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

Standards for "very good at his job" obviously vary tremendously.

"Looking back at Trump’s term, just over half of Americans (53%) rate Trump’s presidency as below average – including 41% who say he was a “terrible” president. About a third (35%) rate his presidency as above average, including 17% who say he was a “great” president."
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/03/29/a-partisan-chasm-in-views-of-trumps-legacy/

And I'll note that a significant percentage of the "he was great" camp are people who seem to
prefer reality TV stars over genuine reality. As in "Trump never said that!" when it's on tape. Or
"COVID is a hoax" despite overwhelming data to the contrary. Or "There is no climate change" despite
piles of evidence and almost total scientific unanimity. Or "January 6 was completely legal and justified"
despite hundreds of successful prosecutions, with more to come. Or "The election was stolen"
despite Republicans _except_ for Trump doing well, and despite dozens of failures in court and no
successes by those making such claims. Or those flying American flags with blue stripes,
while yelling "Defund the FBI" or worse.

I understand lots of people feel a need for a hero to worship. But for God's sake, choose your heroes well!

- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

On 9/11/2022 1:02 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 12:30:14 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 9/11/2022 11:18 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
>>>

>>> It’s hard to understand why American citizens put up with Trump. People are

>>> funny.
>>>
>>
>> I'll take a fat obnoxious jerk who's very good at his job -
>> full employment, lower taxes, secure border. Not just sorta
>> OK, but very good at it. (telling Kim Jon Fatboy to piss off
>> was nice but not compelling. Finally moving our embassy to
>> Jerusalem as Congress voted long ago but several Presidents
>> refused, was also nice but again not compelling)
>
> Standards for "very good at his job" obviously vary tremendously.
>

> "Looking back at Trump’s term, just over half of Americans (53%) rate Trump’s presidency as below average – including 41% who say he was a “terrible†president. About a third (35%) rate his presidency as above average, including 17% who say he was a “great†president."

> https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/03/29/a-partisan-chasm-in-views-of-trumps-legacy/
>
> And I'll note that a significant percentage of the "he was great" camp are people who seem to
> prefer reality TV stars over genuine reality. As in "Trump never said that!" when it's on tape. Or
> "COVID is a hoax" despite overwhelming data to the contrary. Or "There is no climate change" despite
> piles of evidence and almost total scientific unanimity. Or "January 6 was completely legal and justified"
> despite hundreds of successful prosecutions, with more to come. Or "The election was stolen"
> despite Republicans _except_ for Trump doing well, and despite dozens of failures in court and no
> successes by those making such claims. Or those flying American flags with blue stripes,
> while yelling "Defund the FBI" or worse.
>
> I understand lots of people feel a need for a hero to worship. But for God's sake, choose your heroes well!
>
> - Frank Krygowski
>

As I've written before I do not have TeeVee so I only knew
him from the business press. My opinion wasn't colored by
the various clown acts.

Hero worship isn't part of this for me. He's flawed[1], as
much as anyone, but he prevailed in some of the most
ruthless business environments (NYC real estate and large
projects) and did very well at managing the Presidency which
is tough- a lot like herding cats.

p.s. the 'hoax' comment referred to the major US media spin
not the bioweapon itself. Check the tape on that, not meme
of an excerpted partial phrase.

See also, "very fine people on both sides" which omits a lot:
"And you had people — and I’m not talking about the
neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be
condemned totally — but you had many people in that group
other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists,” Trump said
Tuesday"

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-calls-removal-confederate-memorials-sad/story?id=49271200

[1] The spending drove me to distraction, like the last
several profligate pandering Presidents. I wish there were
even one exception, but not so much.

[Catrike Rider]

On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 16:18:07 -0000 (UTC), Ralph Barone

>>> Go to Canada and they?d disagree.

>>
>> ...and in much of the USA, as well. It's hard to understand why
>> Canadian citizens put up with Trudeau, but then Californians put up
>> with Newsom. Some people just seem to prefer being under government
>> control.
>>
>
>It’s hard to understand why American citizens put up with Trump. People are
>funny.

We haven't, in case you hadn't noticed. He'll pay for his claims of
stolen election, even though there was clear interference from FBI and
the media. At any rate, Trump never tried to tell me what to do, as
the leftists keep trying to do.

[Catrike Rider]

I didn't come here to argue politics, but surely you must know that
the FBI and the media interefered in the 2020 election. The Russia
hoax is pretty much well known, as is the Hunter laptop stories. Most
people understand that Jan 6 was just a bunch of fruitcakes that had
no relationship with Trump, nor has there been any evidense that Trump
did anything to encourage them. Biden and company are now calling
Republicans terrorsts and even some Democrats are rolling their eyes
at that nonsense...

[Frank Krygowski]

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 2:35:50 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
>
>
> See also, "very fine people on both sides" which omits a lot:
> "And you had people — and I’m not talking about the
> neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be
> condemned totally — but you had many people in that group
> other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists,” Trump said
> Tuesday"
>
> https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-calls-removal-confederate-memorials-sad/story?id=49271200

Nobody should pretend Trump did not court support from Nazi wannabees and other white nationalists.
The "fine people on both sides" meaning was clear in the context of his attitude toward those groups. His
attitude continued through "stand back and stand by" and "fight like hell" all the way through the duration
of the attack on the capitol.

- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 4:34:40 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>
> I didn't come here to argue politics, but surely you must know that
> the FBI and the media interefered in the 2020 election. The Russia
> hoax is pretty much well known, as is the Hunter laptop stories. Most
> people understand that Jan 6 was just a bunch of fruitcakes that had
> no relationship with Trump, nor has there been any evidense that Trump

> did anything to encourage them. ...

Wow.

As I said, a said, a significant percentage of the "he was great" camp are people who seem to

prefer reality TV stars over genuine reality.

The people on January 6 battering police with Trump flags had no relationship with Trump?
https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/3617673-jan-6-defendant-who-beat-officer-with-trump-flag-sentenced-to-46-months-in-prison/
Trump's calls urging them to take back their country did not encourage them?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-protests/trump-summoned-supporters-to-wild-protest-and-told-them-to-fight-they-did-idUSKBN29B24S

"We are going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue and we're going to the Capitol and we're going to try and give weak Republicans the pride and boldness that they need to take back our country"

The people who were on camera saying they were there because they were obeying Trump imagined
that on their own?
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-capitol-rioter-who-said-he-followed-trumps-orders-found-guilty-2022-04-14/

SMH over fantasyland.

- Frank Krygowski

[Catrike Rider]

<LOL> at "Nazi wannabees and other white nationalists." There's damned
few Nazis in the USA, and as for white nationalist, I call myself a
patriot and I'm mostly white, as far as I know. You must know that the
Jan 6 committee has not found, at least has not published, an iota of
evidense that Trump had anything to do with the fruitcakes who
tresspassed into the capital building. ..and as for Trump's attitude,
neither you nor I know have a clue as to what his attitude was. I seem
to remember him asking for people to march peacefully...

[Catrike Rider]

On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 14:07:38 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
<frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 4:34:40 PM UTC-4, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>
>> I didn't come here to argue politics, but surely you must know that
>> the FBI and the media interefered in the 2020 election. The Russia
>> hoax is pretty much well known, as is the Hunter laptop stories. Most
>> people understand that Jan 6 was just a bunch of fruitcakes that had
>> no relationship with Trump, nor has there been any evidense that Trump
>> did anything to encourage them. ...
>
>Wow.
>
>As I said, a said, a significant percentage of the "he was great" camp are people who seem to
>prefer reality TV stars over genuine reality.

<EYEROLL> I can't stand so-called reality shows. I'm a real realist.
Oh wait, I did like Cops.

>The people on January 6 battering police with Trump flags had no relationship with Trump?

<CHUCKLES> Since when does waving a flag signify a relationship?
Anybody can wave a flag.

>https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/3617673-jan-6-defendant-who-beat-officer-with-trump-flag-sentenced-to-46-months-in-prison/
>Trump's calls urging them to take back their country did not encourage them?
>https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-protests/trump-summoned-supporters-to-wild-protest-and-told-them-to-fight-they-did-idUSKBN29B24S

<SNORT> Hell, I'd like to take back my country, too.

>"We are going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue and we're going to the Capitol and we're going to try and give weak Republicans the pride and boldness that they need to take back our country"

You left out the part where he said "I know that everyone here will
soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and
patriotically make your voices heard."

>The people who were on camera saying they were there because they were obeying Trump imagined
>that on their own?
>https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-capitol-rioter-who-said-he-followed-trumps-orders-found-guilty-2022-04-14/

So, if a murder said he was following your orders, are you
automatically guilty of the crime, or would there have to be some
evidense of you issuing the order?

[Tom Kunich]

I watched the Slime Stream Media still during the time of Trump. I watched them lie and lie and lie. I even had my Democrat brother repeating those lies that I had actually watched Trump not doing. Frank with the IQ of a snail is more than willing to repeat those lies from his usual point of complete ignorance. That appears to be his position in life - the living breathing Polish joke.

[Tom Kunich]

His comments were entirely censored on the Slime Stream Media so that they could then publish yet more lies about what he said. We even have pictures of people leading others to break into the Whitehouse who were clearly identified in not just photographs but VIDEOS doing so and yet the FBI never charged these people with anything. Couldn't they find them? Strange that several reporters found their names and addresses and they were FBI agents. Rather they murdered a woman and have not stood trial for that. An unarmed woman.

Yet on FOX you can clearly here him say, "Let's peacefully walk down to the Capital for a protest."

If Frank wasn't the usual almost midget Pole, I would kick his ass. But I don't like beating up on helpless twits with loud mouths.

[AMuzi]

On 9/11/2022 3:55 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 2:35:50 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
>>
>>
>> See also, "very fine people on both sides" which omits a lot:

>> "And you had people — and I’m not talking about the

>> neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be

>> condemned totally — but you had many people in that group
>> other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists,†Trump said

>> Tuesday"
>>
>> https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-calls-removal-confederate-memorials-sad/story?id=49271200
>
> Nobody should pretend Trump did not court support from Nazi wannabees and other white nationalists.
> The "fine people on both sides" meaning was clear in the context of his attitude toward those groups. His
> attitude continued through "stand back and stand by" and "fight like hell" all the way through the duration
> of the attack on the capitol.
>
> - Frank Krygowski
>

I can't dispute what you report you heard but there's no
documentation for it.

p.s. Every politician says 'fight'. And frequently. It's
allegorical which may be too subtle for some readers.

[Andre Jute]

On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 10:41:24 PM UTC+1, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> If Frank wasn't the usual almost midget Pole, I would kick his ass.
>

It's a pity Franki-boy is such a shortass though, but then again one doesn't want to be arrested for midget-abuse. -- AJ
>

[Tom Kunich]

It would be like hitting a girl. Of course we should remember that the Democrat credo is that all people are completely equal and you shouldn't feel any compunction to not hit girls.

[AMuzi]

I can't defend the excesses and I shall not. They happened
but they were few. Out of 150,000 people.

Literal bystanders who never entered the Capitol nor
confronted anyone have been sentenced to prison for
'trespass' after being held without bail for over a year.

And there were two deaths; one a woman shot dead by a
policeman shooting through a door while she stood within a
couple feet of two other policeman at the top of the stairs.
He could easily have hit them, or anyone. Under normal
police review he'd be disciplined for such.

The other woman was beaten to death by a policewoman and
might well have survived had she not been laid in a tunnel
for several hours before medical assistance was called.

Plenty of distasteful to appalling things happened but as we
live now the myths became larger than the facts.

I suppose you overlook a similar event:

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/historic-church-near-white-house-damaged-amid-unrest-leaders-pray-for-healing/2318673/


With no arrests.

https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/local/dc/atf-release-new-photos-of-suspects-linked-to-fire-st-johns-episcopal-church/65-ba148d2b-1888-49f1-9c8d-5f9699bcfd8f

[Ralph Barone]

I guess we can both be glad we live where we do, then.

[Ralph Barone]

They don’t.

[John B.]

No they don't. In fact French speakers from Louisiana don't agree.

--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 09:03:01 -0400, Catrike Rider
<sol...@drafting.not> wrote:

>On Sat, 10 Sep 2022 20:47:59 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
><frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 1:40:48 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 9/10/2022 11:53 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:

>>> > On Sat, 10 Sep 2022 09:04:26 -0700 (PDT), Frank Krygowski
>>> > <frkr...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> I wish you'd drop the "bioweapon" shtick. If it were truly a weapon, the Chinese would not
>>> >> be repeatedly using it on their own people and their own economy.
>>> >
>>> > Why, yes, the chinese do treat their people so wonderfully.
>>> >

>>> +1
>>>
>>
>>Seriously?? Are you two saying it's likely that China purposely released this virus on their own
>>people in order to harm other countries??
>>
>>That's ludicrous. The virus has done, and continues to do great damage to the Chinese economy.
>>It would do even more damage if they had more virus casualties. But they didn't promote infections.
>>Instead they took extreme measures trying to isolate the infections and stop the spread despite
>>the economic damage.
>>
>>If you see some way that those events prove the "bioweapon" hypothesis, please give us the details.
>>
>>- Frank Krygowski
>
>I, for one, said nothing of the kind, but it wouldn't suprise me if
>China was developing the virus as a bioweapon and it got away from
>them. OTOH, China is not noted for treating their citizens with
>compassion. Their primary in that regard is simply to control them.

Thus speaks a citizen of the country that has more people incarcerated
in their prisons then Stalin did in his (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Catrike Rider]

On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 06:35:39 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
wrote:

In many, but not all, locals in the USA, crooks, theives, rapists,
child molesters and murderers are rightfully put in prison.

Do you have a problem with that? Please explain.

[John B.]

On Sun, 11 Sep 2022 14:33:23 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 11:35:50 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 9/11/2022 1:02 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> > On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 12:30:14 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
>> >> On 9/11/2022 11:18 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
>> >>>

>> >>> It’s hard to understand why American citizens put up with Trump. People are

>> >>> funny.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> I'll take a fat obnoxious jerk who's very good at his job -
>> >> full employment, lower taxes, secure border. Not just sorta
>> >> OK, but very good at it. (telling Kim Jon Fatboy to piss off
>> >> was nice but not compelling. Finally moving our embassy to
>> >> Jerusalem as Congress voted long ago but several Presidents
>> >> refused, was also nice but again not compelling)
>> >
>> > Standards for "very good at his job" obviously vary tremendously.
>> >

>> > "Looking back at Trump’s term, just over half of Americans (53%) rate Trump’s presidency as below average – including 41% who say he was a “terrible�€ president. About a third (35%) rate his presidency as above average, including 17% who say he was a “great�€ president."

>I watched the Slime Stream Media still during the time of Trump.I watched them li e and lie and lie. I even had my Democrat brother repeating those lies that I had actually watched Trump not doing. Frank with the IQ of a snail is more than willing to repeat those lies from his usual point of complete ignorance. That appears to be his position in life - the living breathing Polish joke.

"I watched them lie and lie and lie"???

How droll, Tommy condemning someone for doing what he does every day?
Err.. many times every day.

Pot and Kettle?
--
Cheers,

John B.