info
Google Gruppi non supporta più i nuovi post o le nuove iscrizioni Usenet. I contenuti storici continuano a essere visibili.
Dismiss
Best Buy selling eBikes for $749.99
34 visualizzazioni
Passa al primo messaggio da leggere
sms
26 nov 2021, 18:45:0526/11/21
a
Andre Jute
3 dic 2021, 07:58:1503/12/21
a
On Friday, November 26, 2021 at 11:45:05 PM UTC, sms wrote:
> https://rideswft.com/products/volt
> https://www.bestbuy.com/site/6464288.p
That's cheap. An aftermarket complete kit will probably not be delivered under USD 500.
But I'm not impressed with the design of the bike. That reflector sticking up on the handlebar is a defacing cut on some teenage girl's forehead waiting to happen. And the narrow tyres will be a coccyx killer on badly maintained roads, buying some Bay Area physio a big new BMW.
If that motor is really 350W -- in the sense that a Bafang motor rated 350W is an honest 350W that you don't want to let your wife or your teenager loose on without some serious instruction -- and the battery is scaled to drive an honest 350W motor, 350W is more than enough even for SF hills, and would be overkill in some flat area.
The battery size and quality is the first place manufacturers economize on, because it is hidden and most users don't grasp why a big, heavy battery is required, or alternatively an expensive supply of lighter, flexibly scaled, Bosch battery tool batteries and a lot of knowledge to make a custom fitting to use them.
The battery in the downtube is also a no-no which should be very high on any prospective customer's list. The battery construction in it is likely to be a custom item, no aftermarket replacements available, dicey to rebuild at home if you're not an electrical engineer with soldering skills and a lot of knowledge about LiPo charging control. Unless the cells the battery is constructed of are stated to from Samsung or Panasonic, they're likely to be inferior. A generic battery assembly on the downtube rather than in it is a better deal unless you've stumbling over custom power supply rebuilding stations for that particular bike every time you turned around. In the longer term Jay's expensive e-bike may turn out to be a better deal because it is from a manufacturer with an established, trained dealer network.
If the battery in the Volt is honestly good for the claimed 34m, it will be barely good enough for daily use somewhere in the sub-20 miles range. That 34m range comes with serious derating qualifications: on the flat, in the optimum gear at all times, probably at a max of 15kph (which isn't quite 10mph), no stops and starts, no hills. And if you can't find these often unspoken derating qualifications in the published literature, I'd call it deceit and walk away.
But that's not the worst of it. The battery needs to be twice as big as an honest calculation of maximum use between recharges (daily, eh, not weekly) because of what I call the Coulomb Factor, because the battery needs to be always half or more full in order to give an instant amount of current for a long or steepening hill, escaping from a dangerous traffic situation or just keeping up with vehicular motor traffic. If these are excessive demands in relation to the size of the battery, the battery will be overtaxed all the time, and need replacing much sooner that the normal life expectancy of a correctly scaled bicycle battery.
In which case you want to pray that the excessive demand on the motor in relation to the Coulombs (units of current per second) the battery can deliver instantly and for some typically (in my use anyway) extended period of seconds rather than many minutes, results in the motor being burned out rather than the battery committing suicide, because the battery is probably half or more the ex-factory cost of an e-bike. A good quality Bafang in-wheel motor retails ex China for 60USD and a best quality battery for 5x or more the cost of the motor, the rest of the price being made up of the control system for the motor and the interface with the rider. The Bafang central motors are so much more expensive because a large part of the sophisticated control system is built in to a removable curl of the motor shell.
Because my operating routine for my first electrical installation on my Utopia Kranich, in the front wheel, was designed to protect the most expensive part of the system, the battery, because I knew I would wipe the system but I needed the electric bike experience to decide what I would buy for a more permanent installation (which turned out to be another Bafang, but this time a central installation more closely aligned with my needs), the motor and part of the control system melted down at 3500km, which is a bargain for the five hundred bucks or so I laid out; the battery survived and is still, as my spare, about ten years later, in tip-top condition. My first installation, which I recommend only if you're a lightweight who doesn't carry much in the way of shopping or gear, and ride only on the flat or very mild hills, is described under "Building an Electric Bike aka Pedelec" at
http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLING.html
For USD1000 I think you should be able to buy a preloved MTB in good nick, drop in a Nexus hub gearbox already fitted into a wheel, and fit a central Bafang motor with a decently scaled battery. For comparison, even in high-sales-tax Europe, my 350W Bafang centre installation (in the same Utopia Kranich in which I had the front wheel test installation) with a 14 or 15Ah battery (capable of a range of 40m without breathing heavily) and the best controls, cost about seven or eight hundred Euro, but I fitted the best of everything with the intention that it should last almost forever, and I look after it religiously (1); I've never discharged the battery more than half before recharging it, and I recharge it after every ride, -- whether it needs it or not, heh-heh, because a LiPo battery doesn't have a charge memory like earlier battery types, and operates best in the upper half of its charge range.
These remarks about the size of the battery in relation to usage needs and longevity don't apply only to the Volt, or only to cheap e-bikes: there are some pretty expensive, reputable bikes that come with superior motors but inadequately rated batteries that are absolutely guaranteed to give trouble sooner than they should, or the buyers expect. That's why I took the trouble to learn the technical ins and outs of e-bikes, and then built my own on a proven frame and hub gearbox (Utopia Kranich, already a more than adequately superior bike, fully trimmed and fitted out, with a Rohloff Speed 14 HGB), because I live up and among some pretty testing hills. I haven't regretted the expenditure for a day, nor rejecting the limp Bosch motors that were then the European alternative, for doing a few weeks of work educating myself, a week comparison shopping and ensuring that I got everything I needed in a single parcel, and perhaps a day altogether spent in light installation mechaniching.
Clearly, from this, it is my considered opinion that shopping for ebikes by price is a serious mistake that someone like Scharfie shouldn't commit, nor anyone who knows about electrics and has built up the odd bike, and who can afford the loading of about a third over a cheap ebike out of a store to get a good bike that you've built yourself.
Andre Jute
Nothing I hate more (except Leftie clowns trying to tell me what I can say and can't say) than bikes that out of the store are destined soon to be garage clutter.
(1) Since I've developed my Kranich as a near-zero maintenance bike, looking after it religiously means changing the gearbox oil once a year, greasing the klickbox where the gear change cables enter the hub once a year, wiping the frame down with a damp cloth every second year or so, and charging the battery after every ride, which I've got organized down to less than ten seconds. No, I don't clean or oil chains: I run them exclusively on the factory lube inside a Hebie Chainglider for 4500km, which I've scientifically determined is 0.5 percent wear, then replace them at the convenient annual HGB oil change.
> https://rideswft.com/products/volt
> https://www.bestbuy.com/site/6464288.p
That's cheap. An aftermarket complete kit will probably not be delivered under USD 500.
But I'm not impressed with the design of the bike. That reflector sticking up on the handlebar is a defacing cut on some teenage girl's forehead waiting to happen. And the narrow tyres will be a coccyx killer on badly maintained roads, buying some Bay Area physio a big new BMW.
If that motor is really 350W -- in the sense that a Bafang motor rated 350W is an honest 350W that you don't want to let your wife or your teenager loose on without some serious instruction -- and the battery is scaled to drive an honest 350W motor, 350W is more than enough even for SF hills, and would be overkill in some flat area.
The battery size and quality is the first place manufacturers economize on, because it is hidden and most users don't grasp why a big, heavy battery is required, or alternatively an expensive supply of lighter, flexibly scaled, Bosch battery tool batteries and a lot of knowledge to make a custom fitting to use them.
The battery in the downtube is also a no-no which should be very high on any prospective customer's list. The battery construction in it is likely to be a custom item, no aftermarket replacements available, dicey to rebuild at home if you're not an electrical engineer with soldering skills and a lot of knowledge about LiPo charging control. Unless the cells the battery is constructed of are stated to from Samsung or Panasonic, they're likely to be inferior. A generic battery assembly on the downtube rather than in it is a better deal unless you've stumbling over custom power supply rebuilding stations for that particular bike every time you turned around. In the longer term Jay's expensive e-bike may turn out to be a better deal because it is from a manufacturer with an established, trained dealer network.
If the battery in the Volt is honestly good for the claimed 34m, it will be barely good enough for daily use somewhere in the sub-20 miles range. That 34m range comes with serious derating qualifications: on the flat, in the optimum gear at all times, probably at a max of 15kph (which isn't quite 10mph), no stops and starts, no hills. And if you can't find these often unspoken derating qualifications in the published literature, I'd call it deceit and walk away.
But that's not the worst of it. The battery needs to be twice as big as an honest calculation of maximum use between recharges (daily, eh, not weekly) because of what I call the Coulomb Factor, because the battery needs to be always half or more full in order to give an instant amount of current for a long or steepening hill, escaping from a dangerous traffic situation or just keeping up with vehicular motor traffic. If these are excessive demands in relation to the size of the battery, the battery will be overtaxed all the time, and need replacing much sooner that the normal life expectancy of a correctly scaled bicycle battery.
In which case you want to pray that the excessive demand on the motor in relation to the Coulombs (units of current per second) the battery can deliver instantly and for some typically (in my use anyway) extended period of seconds rather than many minutes, results in the motor being burned out rather than the battery committing suicide, because the battery is probably half or more the ex-factory cost of an e-bike. A good quality Bafang in-wheel motor retails ex China for 60USD and a best quality battery for 5x or more the cost of the motor, the rest of the price being made up of the control system for the motor and the interface with the rider. The Bafang central motors are so much more expensive because a large part of the sophisticated control system is built in to a removable curl of the motor shell.
Because my operating routine for my first electrical installation on my Utopia Kranich, in the front wheel, was designed to protect the most expensive part of the system, the battery, because I knew I would wipe the system but I needed the electric bike experience to decide what I would buy for a more permanent installation (which turned out to be another Bafang, but this time a central installation more closely aligned with my needs), the motor and part of the control system melted down at 3500km, which is a bargain for the five hundred bucks or so I laid out; the battery survived and is still, as my spare, about ten years later, in tip-top condition. My first installation, which I recommend only if you're a lightweight who doesn't carry much in the way of shopping or gear, and ride only on the flat or very mild hills, is described under "Building an Electric Bike aka Pedelec" at
http://coolmainpress.com/BICYCLING.html
For USD1000 I think you should be able to buy a preloved MTB in good nick, drop in a Nexus hub gearbox already fitted into a wheel, and fit a central Bafang motor with a decently scaled battery. For comparison, even in high-sales-tax Europe, my 350W Bafang centre installation (in the same Utopia Kranich in which I had the front wheel test installation) with a 14 or 15Ah battery (capable of a range of 40m without breathing heavily) and the best controls, cost about seven or eight hundred Euro, but I fitted the best of everything with the intention that it should last almost forever, and I look after it religiously (1); I've never discharged the battery more than half before recharging it, and I recharge it after every ride, -- whether it needs it or not, heh-heh, because a LiPo battery doesn't have a charge memory like earlier battery types, and operates best in the upper half of its charge range.
These remarks about the size of the battery in relation to usage needs and longevity don't apply only to the Volt, or only to cheap e-bikes: there are some pretty expensive, reputable bikes that come with superior motors but inadequately rated batteries that are absolutely guaranteed to give trouble sooner than they should, or the buyers expect. That's why I took the trouble to learn the technical ins and outs of e-bikes, and then built my own on a proven frame and hub gearbox (Utopia Kranich, already a more than adequately superior bike, fully trimmed and fitted out, with a Rohloff Speed 14 HGB), because I live up and among some pretty testing hills. I haven't regretted the expenditure for a day, nor rejecting the limp Bosch motors that were then the European alternative, for doing a few weeks of work educating myself, a week comparison shopping and ensuring that I got everything I needed in a single parcel, and perhaps a day altogether spent in light installation mechaniching.
Clearly, from this, it is my considered opinion that shopping for ebikes by price is a serious mistake that someone like Scharfie shouldn't commit, nor anyone who knows about electrics and has built up the odd bike, and who can afford the loading of about a third over a cheap ebike out of a store to get a good bike that you've built yourself.
Andre Jute
Nothing I hate more (except Leftie clowns trying to tell me what I can say and can't say) than bikes that out of the store are destined soon to be garage clutter.
(1) Since I've developed my Kranich as a near-zero maintenance bike, looking after it religiously means changing the gearbox oil once a year, greasing the klickbox where the gear change cables enter the hub once a year, wiping the frame down with a damp cloth every second year or so, and charging the battery after every ride, which I've got organized down to less than ten seconds. No, I don't clean or oil chains: I run them exclusively on the factory lube inside a Hebie Chainglider for 4500km, which I've scientifically determined is 0.5 percent wear, then replace them at the convenient annual HGB oil change.
Tom Kunich
3 dic 2021, 11:19:3203/12/21
a
Tesla has remarkable mileage mostly because it has battery capacity for a great deal more and this shows up as a claimed degradation in mileage to 70% over 400,000 miles. In truth they run down to 80% in the first 100,000 miles or so. This is not to say that Tesla is a bad car, it is more that it is a terrible choice for long distance travel and it really has NO green advantages at all. Lithium is extremely expensive to mine and purify and the energy lost in those processes MORE than makes up for the rather minor reduction in energy cost of the car over its petroleum rivals. And Tesla is the best of the E-cars by a country mile.
The pretense of people like Scharf who WANT to believe fairy tales about something for nothing is why we have clowns in DC.
jbeattie
3 dic 2021, 11:52:1003/12/21
a
-- Jay Beattie.
Tom Kunich
3 dic 2021, 12:28:3703/12/21
a
sms
3 dic 2021, 13:05:2503/12/21
a
On 12/3/2021 8:52 AM, jbeattie wrote:
<snip>
> Dear Dope, millions of uneducated people are commuting on e-bikes every day. Did you ever commute to work by bike? I did and do, and my commutes in the Bay Area (SCV) were mostly flat -- and my commute one way never exceeded 15 miles. 30 miles RT is an easy range for any decent e-bike. The supposed average US urban commute is 16 miles each way, which seems like a lot, but even that is well within the battery range of a decent e-bike. My Turbo Vado has an 80 mile range on the lowest assist level and with proper software setting. E-bikes are a viable alternative to driving in urban areas including the Bay Area.
Correct, the average U.S. commute is 16 miles each way. Also remember
that a lot of eBike have removable batteries that you can charge at work
if you can't take the eBike inside your workplace.
Pre-pandemic, when traffic was much worse, the difference in time
between an 5-10 mile eBike commute and a vehicle commute was negligible,
depending on the origin and destination, because you could often use
MUPs which resulted in a shorter distance without traffic jams or
stoplights.
We'll see what the situation is post-pandemic, if it ever ends--too many
morons refusing to get vaccinated and refusing to follow mask mandates.
We're approaching 800,000 Covid deaths in the U.S., thanks to Trump.
<snip>
> Dear Dope, millions of uneducated people are commuting on e-bikes every day. Did you ever commute to work by bike? I did and do, and my commutes in the Bay Area (SCV) were mostly flat -- and my commute one way never exceeded 15 miles. 30 miles RT is an easy range for any decent e-bike. The supposed average US urban commute is 16 miles each way, which seems like a lot, but even that is well within the battery range of a decent e-bike. My Turbo Vado has an 80 mile range on the lowest assist level and with proper software setting. E-bikes are a viable alternative to driving in urban areas including the Bay Area.
that a lot of eBike have removable batteries that you can charge at work
if you can't take the eBike inside your workplace.
Pre-pandemic, when traffic was much worse, the difference in time
between an 5-10 mile eBike commute and a vehicle commute was negligible,
depending on the origin and destination, because you could often use
MUPs which resulted in a shorter distance without traffic jams or
stoplights.
We'll see what the situation is post-pandemic, if it ever ends--too many
morons refusing to get vaccinated and refusing to follow mask mandates.
We're approaching 800,000 Covid deaths in the U.S., thanks to Trump.
John B.
3 dic 2021, 17:24:0503/12/21
a
On Fri, 3 Dec 2021 10:05:20 -0800, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:
801,701 as of this morning's report (:-)
And that beats the second place contestant by about 200,000 (:-(
--
Cheers,
John B.
wrote:
And that beats the second place contestant by about 200,000 (:-(
--
Cheers,
John B.
0 nuovi messaggi