UK triathletes:"This course is shite!"

[AMuzi]

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/aug/05/investigation-after-57-world-triathlon-championship-swimmers-fall-sick-and-get-diarrhoea-in-sunderland-race

https://www.reuters.com/sports/triathlon-swimmers-complain-suffering-sickness-diarrhoea-after-sunderland-event-2023-08-05/

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Roger Meriman]

AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/aug/05/investigation-after-57-world-triathlon-championship-swimmers-fall-sick-and-get-diarrhoea-in-sunderland-race
>
> https://www.reuters.com/sports/triathlon-swimmers-complain-suffering-sickness-diarrhoea-after-sunderland-event-2023-08-05/
>

It’s a on going problem which simplified is water companies have been paid
to do maintenance and upgrades (done bare minimum if that) yet able to pay
investors… a number are in hot water and under intense media and political
pressure.

Essentially they haven’t done what they have been paid to do ie keep the
water clean…

Roger Merriman

[Tom Kunich]

Every city in the US that discharges water into public waterways has sewage disposal plants. This gives them uncontaminated water and relatively clean landfill. The problem appears to be the "relatively" part of the equation. The water discharged into waterways is called "brown water" and it is clean enough to consume but of course no one would wish to do so. But there are too many creeks and streams that dump water that is semi-contaminated directly into the bay. This is mostly contaminated with the residue from automobiles - oil, tire dust etc. This has killed off the normally occurring wildlife and the San Francisco bay is now a dead zone Fish are rare and usually at or very near the Golden Gate.

Once in awhile whales will stop in the bay but the water is polluted enough that it will kill the calves and make the older whales sick. Now this is despite the fact that the sewage disposal plants work quite well and the pollution is from mostly dumping into the creeks and waterways,

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Mon, 07 Aug 2023 15:27:45 GMT, Roger Meriman <ro...@sarlet.com>
wrote:

In Santa Cruz County (California), we have water quality monitoring
and publicly available reports by the environmental health department:
<https://scceh.com/NewHome/Programs/WaterResources/SurfaceWaterStewardship/WaterQualityMonitoring/SurfaceWaterQuality.aspx>
In the distant past, the highest counts were at the beginning of the
rainy season (Late November), where the fertilizer and animal
droppings were washed into the rivers. There was also a minor peak
during summer, when the leaky septic tanks along the riparian corridor
unloaded into the river. Fast forward about 40 years, and the
seasonal peaks are gone and replaced by year round marginal water
quality. This is not progress.

The September 2023 Ironman 70.3 Triathlon has its swimming event off
the Santa Cruz main beach. Water quality doesn't look too good at
this time. Something about having swimming events near a river mouth:
<https://www.ironman.com/im703-santa-cruz-course>

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[John B.]

On Mon, 07 Aug 2023 10:47:19 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 07 Aug 2023 15:27:45 GMT, Roger Meriman <ro...@sarlet.com>
>wrote:
>
>>AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>> https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/aug/05/investigation-after-57-world-triathlon-championship-swimmers-fall-sick-and-get-diarrhoea-in-sunderland-race
>>>
>>> https://www.reuters.com/sports/triathlon-swimmers-complain-suffering-sickness-diarrhoea-after-sunderland-event-2023-08-05/
>
>>It’s a on going problem which simplified is water companies have been paid
>>to do maintenance and upgrades (done bare minimum if that) yet able to pay
>>investors… a number are in hot water and under intense media and political
>>pressure.
>>
>>Essentially they haven’t done what they have been paid to do ie keep the
>>water clean…
>>
>>Roger Merriman
>
>In Santa Cruz County (California), we have water quality monitoring
>and publicly available reports by the environmental health department:
><https://scceh.com/NewHome/Programs/WaterResources/SurfaceWaterStewardship/WaterQualityMonitoring/SurfaceWaterQuality.aspx>
>In the distant past, the highest counts were at the beginning of the
>rainy season (Late November), where the fertilizer and animal
>droppings were washed into the rivers. There was also a minor peak
>during summer, when the leaky septic tanks along the riparian corridor
>unloaded into the river. Fast forward about 40 years, and the
>seasonal peaks are gone and replaced by year round marginal water
>quality. This is not progress.

And what would be a (the) solution?
Possibilities might include (1) limiting the population, (2) limiting
size of agriculture and animal businesses, (3) increase in taxes to
allow for improvement in processing plants and enlargement to cope
with the increase in population and economic growth.

--
Cheers,

John B.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 08 Aug 2023 05:49:04 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>

Although not official policy, it seems that the country has been
introducing policies that dramatically raise the cost of improving
homes to the point where it is cheaper and easier to build a new home
from scratch, than to repair the existing home. For example, about 10
years ago, the county decided that modifications to the septic system
will require dual linear leach fields totaling about 135ft(?) which
would not fit on most of the existing parcels. I could itemize more
such abominations, but not now. A good indication of the "success" of
such policies is that very few of the 1000 homes that were destroyed
in the Aug 2020 CZU fire have not been rebuilt:

"CZU Fire Rebuilding by the Numbers" (Aug 16, 2022)
<https://slvpost.com/czu-fire-rebuilding-by-the-numbers/>
"As of 7/25/22, 139 dwelling permits have been issued or the permits
are ready for pick-up and 9 homes have been completely rebuilt."

The problem was exacerbated when the county and state initially
promised the survivors of the fire that they would be able to rebuild
their houses as they were prior to the fire, but later changed their
mind and demanded that most reconstruction be treated as if it were
new construction with all the associated red tape and "improved"
requirements.

Although I have no proof, the process seems to be what is called
"gentrification":
<https://www.google.com/search?q=gentrification>
where existing residents are forced out of their houses to make room
for more affluent replacements. From the county's point of view, this
makes sense because the new and more affluent residents will be in a
better position to pay the necessary improvements to infrastructure,
roads, water treatment, facilities, etc.

[Catrike Rider]

On Mon, 07 Aug 2023 16:16:27 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>

“The nine most terrifying words in the English language are ‘I’m from
the government and I’m here to help.’"

-Ronald Reagan

[John B.]

On Mon, 07 Aug 2023 16:16:27 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>

They may not fit but from the other side of the fence what is the
minimum size of a leech field for a normal family? The "average"
family in the U.S. is something like 3.13 persons but what is the
"usual" size in your town or village?

By the way, what is a linear leech field? We had a septic tank and
leech field but the out put of the septic tank fed into a sort of
"tee" and into a long lateral pipe with holes to spread the output
over a rather wide area.

We originally had what you might mean by a linear leech, just a outlet
pipe and that had resulted in the "stuff" draining from the tank
making almost a tiny "brook" down the hill... very inefficient.

The lateral pipe system allowed us to fertilize a rather large "hay
field" and the yield from that field was much higher then that from
other fields.

>
>"CZU Fire Rebuilding by the Numbers" (Aug 16, 2022)
><https://slvpost.com/czu-fire-rebuilding-by-the-numbers/>
>"As of 7/25/22, 139 dwelling permits have been issued or the permits
>are ready for pick-up and 9 homes have been completely rebuilt."
>
>The problem was exacerbated when the county and state initially
>promised the survivors of the fire that they would be able to rebuild
>their houses as they were prior to the fire, but later changed their
>mind and demanded that most reconstruction be treated as if it were
>new construction with all the associated red tape and "improved"
>requirements.


>
>Although I have no proof, the process seems to be what is called
>"gentrification":
><https://www.google.com/search?q=gentrification>
>where existing residents are forced out of their houses to make room
>for more affluent replacements. From the county's point of view, this
>makes sense because the new and more affluent residents will be in a
>better position to pay the necessary improvements to infrastructure,
>roads, water treatment, facilities, etc.
--

Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

Some years back I was reading an article in a minor Pittsburgh
newspaper, an interview of an old guy talking about how things used to
be "back in the day." Understand, back in the day Pittsburgh was a
monster manufacturing area, mostly iron and steel. Very smoky, very
polluted.

The old guy described swimming in the Monongahela River as a boy. He
said they liked to swim over to where sewage was discharged into the
river. They liked it because it was warm there.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Tue, 08 Aug 2023 08:19:23 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
wrote:
(chomp)

>They may not fit but from the other side of the fence what is the
>minimum size of a leech field for a normal family? The "average"
>family in the U.S. is something like 3.13 persons but what is the
>"usual" size in your town or village?

More than you probably wanted to know:
"ONSITE WASTEWATER TREATMENT AND DISPOSAL REGULATIONS -
CHAMBER LEACHING SYSTEMS REGULATIONS"
<https://scceh.com/Portals/6/Env_Health/Land%20Use/Land%20Use%20Documents/Chamber_Leaching_Guidelines%20.pdf>
Start reading on Pg 3.
"The conventional, rock filled leach field requirements for a
three-bedroom house with 6-30 MPI soils would require a total of 138
lineal feet of trench that has a 2 ½ feet of rock in an 18 inches wide
trench. The two parallel rock filled trenches would require
approximately 552 square feet of ground surface disposal area."

The infiltrator system uses about the same amount of land, but does
not require large amounts of drain rock and excavation. It's also
cheaper. Most of the newer homes are opting for infiltrators.

Locally, the country requires dual leach fields with a valve allowing
the use of only one leach field at a time. Even though the
manufacturer recommends parallel leach lines with some minimum
spacing, the county want both leach fields in a straight line.
Including backset requirements, that makes much of the existing lots
unbuildable. Fortunately, it is possible to obtain an exemption for
other styles of leach fields. More:

<https://www.codepublishing.com/CA/SantaCruzCounty/html/SantaCruzCounty07/SantaCruzCounty0738.html#7.38.140>
Sections 7.38.140 have the basic septic tank requirements. 7.38.150
have the basic leach field requirements. There are other requirements
scattered around in various environmental health documents.

I don't think that there's a "usual" size because it depends on the
lot size, building size, type of soil, slop, etc. There's also homes
that were built to the old code and those built to the code
requirements adopted after the CZU fire.

>By the way, what is a linear leech field? We had a septic tank and
>leech field but the out put of the septic tank fed into a sort of
>"tee" and into a long lateral pipe with holes to spread the output
>over a rather wide area.

Yes, that's basically it except the meeting point of the "tee" is now
a valve (switch).

>We originally had what you might mean by a linear leech, just a outlet
>pipe and that had resulted in the "stuff" draining from the tank
>making almost a tiny "brook" down the hill... very inefficient.

Too much slope. The leach field needs to be less than 30% slope and
built so that nothing drains back into the tank.

>The lateral pipe system allowed us to fertilize a rather large "hay
>field" and the yield from that field was much higher then that from
>other fields.

Nice. We also have "gray water" systems, which bypass the septic tank
and leach field for water coming from the shower, tub, bathroom sink,
washing machine, dishwashers, etc. Such systems really help extend
the life of the septic tank and leach field.

[John B.]

On Tue, 15 Aug 2023 16:20:35 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

Ah the glories of civilization :-)

As a very young lad I remember visiting people that had no septic tank
at all. You dig a hole in the back yard and built a little house sort
of structure over it. Traditionally the top section of the door had a
half moon opening cut in it. Because it was always built in the back
yard, I suppose, it was called a "back house". When the hole got full
you simply dug another hole moved the Back House over the new hole and
filled in the old hole.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 16 Aug 2023 12:21:21 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Ah the glories of civilization :-)

Nothing is simple. If something is found to be simple, we know how to
fix that.

>As a very young lad I remember visiting people that had no septic tank
>at all. You dig a hole in the back yard and built a little house sort
>of structure over it. Traditionally the top section of the door had a
>half moon opening cut in it. Because it was always built in the back
>yard, I suppose, it was called a "back house". When the hole got full
>you simply dug another hole moved the Back House over the new hole and
>filled in the old hole.

We still have those in some well hidden areas. If the ground is
porous enough, they work just fine. If not, there's usually a trash
bag in the hole which can later be used to remove the waste.

When I first moved into the area (about 1973), there were quite a few
vacation houses that were occupied only in summer. With only a few
residents, sewage disposal was not much of a problem. Today, all the
houses are occupied year round often with an oversupply of tenants and
their vehicles. The entire valley is like that today. Of course,
sewage disposal is now a problem. What worked when you were a very
young lad no longer works.

Also, many of the older houses were essentially improved camp sites.
Many of the houses date back to the late 19th century. There was one
of those across the road from my house. Their septic system
originally consisted of a wooden barrel buried in the ground with some
holes drilled into the bottom of the barrel. It was eventually sold
to a speculator. Of course, it failed the septic inspection. To the
irritation of the speculator, a new tank and leach field were
installed. This was before dual leach lines was required, so the
expense was almost reasonable.