Diamondback MTB rebuild...

[N8N]

Hi all,

friend of mine was given a "free" bike and asked me if it was worth salvaging... still not sure yet but here goes.

Needs new bottom bracket and probably crankset as it looks like the gears are permanently welded to the spiders (Shimano stuff, assume low end?), and they've been mangled a little by bad shifting. Obviously chain as well and possibly cassette too.

I can't get anything apart yet as it's been sitting outside (so a bunch of stuff is soaking in penetrating oil) and also I need a few tools that I don't have to really tear into it.

does anyone know how I can determine the BB size without disassembly? I couldn't find an email link on Diamondback's web site. It is a Diamondback Response, year unknown. I haven't even got the cranks off yet as it looks like I need to find a temporary bolt to thread into the spindle to pull the arms off and I don't have anything in my stash that thread. It's a standard square taper, I can tell that much.

Does anyone know what tool I need to remove the BB? I can't try the few that I have as I don't have the crank arms off yet.

Also needs new shifters and cables. Condition of hubs unknown but they definitely need at least new balls/repack; they feel awful.

Finally is it possible that 7mm bolts were used in some places? I took the handlebars off and find that the 6mm bolts in my parts bin don't thread into the stem. however the original very rusty ones thread in fine and probably will be reused at least temporarily until I can source some new hardware.

Additionally I pulled the seatpost just to make sure it was free (because that would be a deal killer) the seat angle adjuster I don't have a single allen wrench that will fit it, is it possible it is 5.5mm?

I'm not a MTB guy but I'm kind of trying to save this one because a) it's a lot lighter than most MTBs being non-suspended and I think she's more looking for something for road and light trail riding; also she is very short so finding something "better" that fits her will be hard.

So do you think I can resurrect this for less than $200 or so? Then, is it worth it?

[AMuzi]

Check inside the left crank arm for a Shimano product number
(FC-dash-whatever) and possible two-letter date code (left
side is the clean side!). Then you'll know exactly what it
is and about which year. Just because the rings are pressed
to the arm doesn't make it unrideable. Unless broken, you
can ride it and evaluate all the rest before changing to a
better crank set.

typical 22mm crank remover about $10. (& up):
http://velobase.com/ViewTool.aspx?ID=21211512-b668-44a8-a702-c56d1fcbefd5&AbsPos=19

Diamond Back BB shell is BSC, very standard stuff. Depending
on its age and quality, may be a Shimano 'sealed' unit or a
loose-ball model. At any rate, don't rebuild it if you're
replacing the crank. Get the correct matching
spindle/bearing assembly for the new crank.

Yes there are stems with 7mm thread faceplate bolts.
Annoying aren't they?

Your seat attaching bolt is likely just damaged. Remove post
and have a good look in a strong light. New bolt is m8x1.25
cheap at any hardware supplier. Lubricate thread for best
results. In many households the only allen tool is the
dejammer key under the garbage disposal. Those don't quite
fit, which doesn't stop people from trying.

Lastly, rusted/kinked cables can make you think it also
needs shifters. It may not.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[avag...@gmail.com]

a rebuild on a '78 Raleigh with wheels and 700c tires cost uh uh $500, prob more I have that on another HD....Deore...good middle range parts.

I hear no one raving abt Diamondbacks even tho the D's hae ahd a good rep generally all we here is STUMPJUMPER STUMPERJUMPER.

Free equals plus parts and a comparison to what's on Craig's List as a reality check.

You could come up with a whiz bang 2008 California Special for 500

The SF lugged frame shop was selling Raleigh Replicas for 2000 up depending on groupo and your attitude

[N8N]

No it definitely needs shifters. The right one is missing pieces and only shifts one way. I think they are Alivio (sp?) integrated shifters/brake levers. Recommend for replacement?

Am thinking that I might just get a whole new wheelset, upgrade to 9-speed (it's currently 7 speed which seems to be kind of unsupported) because rear wheel has a big dent in it now that I spin it and the front hub is crunchy, also both chainrings and cassette look like they have a LOT of wear on them. I'm seeing Sun/Shimano Deore wheelsets for a little over $100 so this doesn't seem like madness.

The biggest question at this moment is what BB to order, would like to stay with square taper, with a new crankset with removeable rings. Am guessing should get Shimano BB-UN55 but don't know what length, or does that depend more on what the new crankset is rather than what the bike frame is?

Now that I look at it it looks like old BB is Shimano meaning that that is likely the tool I need. Which I don't have because my one bike is ISIS and the other still has the original loose ball thing. Yay buying more tools!

nate

[N8N]

Also, is Park BBT-22 the correct tool to remove the old square taper BB? Assuming of course that I can actually get the cranks off. Got my crank puller rigged up on there now with lots of pressure on it, I keep going downstairs and tapping on it every now and then, but it hasn't busted loose yet.

nate

[Sir Ridesalot]

On Sunday, July 5, 2015 at 2:57:49 PM UTC-4, N8N wrote:

7 speed stuff is still available and is a lot less $ than most 9 speed stuff. A 9 speed rear wheel will need to have the rear triangle widened to fit it and also the dropouts realigned.

Sounds to me like you're thinking about getting into a fairly expensive rebuild that might cost as much or more than a new bicycle.

Cheers

[AMuzi]

Bear in mind that a brand new shiny basic name-brand MTB is
a little past $300 nowadays. Assembled. With a warranty.

[AMuzi]

Make sure there are no washers still inside the crank arm.

Oil the thread in your tool.
Ensure it's fully engaged all the way into the crank arm.

Then apply torque to the tool and if it doesn't slip right
off try a smart smack on the back side of the crank arm
while the tool is under pressure.

[AMuzi]

Sorry that last part is not quite right.
MTB have been 135mm for a good long while, 7, 8, 9, 10
speeds all.

[AMuzi]

Apologies, Sir.
You're correct on the last part; it was the penultimate
point on spacing I meant.

[avag...@gmail.com]

So do you think I can resurrect this for less than $200 or so? Then, is it worth it?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$]

there are free good running bicycles....

so you doahn have cash ?

well, soon you have negative cash flow and still no bicycle so where's that at...

[N8N]

Not in my area. Any bicycle at all people think is worth at least $200, and she's very vertically challenged so a hard thing to find used.

nate

[John B.]

On Sun, 5 Jul 2015 11:57:44 -0700 (PDT), N8N <n8n...@gmail.com>
wrote:

As for "support" I bought a single L.H. shifter for a 7 speed system
for US$ 4.45. I was rather surprised that the Shimano agent still
carried such an antiqued piece of equipment and asked about it and he
informed me that "there are still a lot of 7 speed bikes out there."

But, be aware that the rear "forks" on a 7 speed bike are usually
narrower than a 9 speed and may have to be bent a bit to fit the new 9
speed wheel. See:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html

In fact, see www.sheldonbrown.com for an answer to practically any
bicycle question that you have.

>The biggest question at this moment is what BB to order, would like to stay with square taper, with a new crankset with removeable rings. Am guessing should get Shimano BB-UN55 but don't know what length, or does that depend more on what the new crankset is rather than what the bike frame is?
>
>Now that I look at it it looks like old BB is Shimano meaning that that is likely the tool I need. Which I don't have because my one bike is ISIS and the other still has the original loose ball thing. Yay buying more tools!
>
>nate

--
cheers,

John B.

[N8N]

I got one off... probably not the "right way" but I had already followed all your steps above with no joy. Then I did what you're not supposed to do and beat the snot out of my crank puller with a BFH. Drive side is off, NDS is sitting under pressure right now.

Still haven't made a go/no go decision, but we did run to LBS to pick up a pedal wrench (I didn't have one) and order a bottom bracket socket. She tried a few bikes and we determined that this frame size actually is correct for her so that's good. Looking a fleaBay cranksets now... still have to repack hubs before making a real decision but I'm still progressing with disassembly because it's a paperweight without doing so.

nate

[avag...@gmail.com]

hhhhhhhiiiiiiiiiisssssssssssssss

https://hudsonvalley.craigslist.org/search/bik

http://www.buycheapr.com/us/result.jsp?ga=us7&q=used+mountain+bicycles+for+sale


no figuring...if the bike looks neglected it was neglected...all parts are out

[N8N]

On Sunday, July 5, 2015 at 3:25:44 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:

>
> Bear in mind that a brand new shiny basic name-brand MTB is
> a little past $300 nowadays. Assembled. With a warranty.

Do you have any particular model in mind?

Stopped at LBS yesterday to pick up a few tools and the cheapest "hybrid" that didn't look like a BSO was about $500. (very Trek centric shop with a little Specialized mixed in. They used to carry Surly as well and I was disappointed not to see any on the floor, but all of those are probably way out of price range anyway) I was disappointed that it seemed to have the same groupset as the bike I'm working on (just newer version) and the same welded on chainrings that are going to cost me money and a "new" crankset to fix now that the chainrings are slap wore out. I was looking at hybrids and not full MTBs because I see mostly road and trail riding, and was going to put semi-slick tires on the bike I'm working on anyway for that reason.

I think she actually shares my preferences and would rather have a drop bar touring or 'cross bike, probably touring preferred, but those seem to start about $1100 and go up from there and that just isn't happening.

She's without any bike whatsoever and has expressed strong interest in riding, and I really need a riding buddy for motivation, so I think the goal of this exercise is to get her on anything that doesn't suck as cheaply as possible and then upgrade later on when she can confirm/fine tune her preferences.

On a hybrid frame (Trek 7.1 to be exact) it looks like she needs a 15" frame which is the second smallest "WSD" size and the very smallest "Men's" size made it would appear.

Alternately, what's the consensus on Octalink/Hollowtech II bottom brackets? Those seem to be all I'm coming up with on the 'bay in a higher level groupset at an affordable price. Or is there a good, cheap, "off brand" (I've been pretty much searching for Shimano Deore) MTB triple crankset that has replaceable rings and still uses a square taper? I'm still a little confused as to what BB will and won't fit but I have confirmed that it's a 67mm bottom bracket shell and your previous post in this thread indicated that Diamondback most likely used a British thread, is that all I need to know to go shopping? What about length, or is that taken care of with spacers with the Octalink stuff?

Finally my memory says that it is possible to put a 7-speed cassette on an 8/9 freehub with a spacer. This may be pertinent to my interests depending on what's trashed and what's usable (I have yet to tear into the hubs as I need to procure a new magnet on a stick and some solvent to wash the hubs out.) Am I in fact correct in this or is my memory playing tricks on me?

nate

[AMuzi]

Yes, most prebuilt wheels include such a spacer, they're
cheap at any LBS.
Goes behind the low gear for use with CS-7 on modern hubs.

[Sir Ridesalot]

You can convert an MTB to a nice rugged off road touring bike with drop bars. You can use narrow slicks for roads or up to 2.125" knobby tires for real cross country rides.

Here're two images of one I have converted with 26" x 1.5" smooth tires. Bar end shifters, Brifters or Ergos can be used depending on cost amnd preference.

With Shimano bar end shifters https://www.flickr.com/photos/73832500@N00/14350033227/

Later with Campagnolo 9 speed Mirage Ergos https://www.flickr.com/photos/73832500@N00/14556620403/

Cheers

[avag...@gmail.com]

NEW SINGLE SPEED MO costs $200 or try Walmart...

for parts search to: universal cycles n call or email if confused.

spacer is .95mm ?
.

[John B.]

On Mon, 6 Jul 2015 05:33:56 -0700 (PDT), N8N <n8n...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Re Hub width see: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html
Re Cassettes se: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/k7.html
--
cheers,

John B.

[N8N]

Update: I cheated.

"fixed" the Diamondback by finding a really nice looking Trek hybrid at Goodwill (really!) that looks like it was set in a corner immediately after purchase and uses the exact same groupset.

The Trek is one frame size larger than the Diamondback but the intended recipient took it for a short ride last night and is seemingly OK with it, other than the awful super wide plush sprung saddle. That can be fixed. If it turns out after more riding that the frame size really is too big, I can just move everything over to the DB. (assuming, of course, I can get the @#$% bottom bracket out - it's still sitting waiting for me to abuse it as I just got the BB tool I ordered Saturday evening and haven't messed with it since.)

I still want to do a full tuneup/service on the Trek before calling this exercise done, but it doesn't appear to even need new cables, just a CLA and done. Maybe some slick tires for better road manners. (any recommends? 26" wheels.)

nate

[N8N]

Forgot to ask - any issues using a 7 speed derailleur on a 6 speed cassette or vice versa? I'm guessing maybe the 6 speed doesn't have enough travel to shift 7 speeds but if the pull ratio is the same 7 should work on 6 right? This is all re: Shimano MTB stuff. The two notable differences between the two bikes is the Trek uses twist shifters and has a 7 speed cassette where the DB has (busted) integrated thumb shifters/brake levers and has a 6 speed cassette. I'm assuming if I were to make these bikes mix 'n' match (like I've done with my own road bikes) I'd want to change the DB to a 7 speed rear der and shifters (since I need to buy shifters anyway.)

If you can't guess I'm rather pleased with myself; I don't like hybrids and this Trek has a "lower end" groupset, but it's in damn near immaculate condition and I'm guessing that after a good bath it will look near new - it already rides like it.

nate

[AMuzi]

Any SIS-6 rear changer will run in an SIS-7 system.

[N8N]

Awesome sauce. One less thing to buy! Thanks.

nate

[N8N]

On Sunday, July 5, 2015 at 1:37:35 PM UTC-4, N8N wrote:

Update again.

Last night I started in on this again. I'd previously got the DS crank off the spindle but the NDS was stuck tight. Well I rigged up a way to apply Excessive Force (tm) to my crank arm puller, with less than successful results. Rather than pulling the crank arm off the taper, the puller ripped the threads right out of the crank arm. So that will have to be cut off with an angle grinder.

I tried to get the one BB cup off that I could get to with also limited success. I think I will strip the frame down after cutting off the crank arm and throw it in the back of my car one day and stop by my friend's auto repair shop after work with my impact gun (I don't have a compressor at home.)

Before I hork this up beyond all recognition, is this a good plan? (will the Park tool hold up to mild impact use? I was impressed with the crank arm puller, I have to say, as I was using it well outside of design parameters and other than some marks on the blue handle, it is just fine.)

Also, please confirm for me that the DS cup is RH threaded but the NDS is LH threaded? (I think that's right, isn't it?) I can't see threads on the cups. Just trying to save this frame before throwing in the towel and giving it to the scrap man... would hate to do it as it was given to the owner by her son even if it was a bit of a bad buy on his part. Also if I can get the BB out and friend decides the Trek I found for her is too big, I can just transfer the crank, arms, wheels, etc. over from that bike and it won't cost me anything to put her on a one size smaller frame.

thanks

Nate

[AMuzi]

Chain side is reverse threaded on a Diamond Back

[avag...@gmail.com]

NATE NATE NATE use a propane torch.....

[avag...@gmail.com]

Andy recommends using a heat gun esp with seals and gaskets.

Maybe the torch is cheaper..soak the cup edge wit PC Blaster for 2-3 days....wrap a strip of cloth around the edge n hold there with a looped bag tie...then warm the cup....tap cup tap tap tap at 180 degree point similar to tightening wheel lugs with a rod from the other BB side.

impact....surly you jest ?

[avag...@gmail.com]

On Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 6:27:09 PM UTC-4, avag...@gmail.com wrote:

$10 plus tank $15


https://www.google.com/#q=propane+gas+torch+kit&tbs=vw:l,p_ord:p&tbm=shop

[Sir Ridesalot]

On Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 1:41:21 PM UTC-4, N8N wrote:

I removed a non-drive side crankarm for a guy who'd also ripped out the threads. I placed a wide piece of metal with a slot that slipped over the bb spindle, behind the crankarm and then drove an old wood working chisel between the crankarm and the piece of metal on either side of the crank arm. He was quite surprised at how that crankarm just popped off.

If you're going to removethe fixed cup on the drive side then take alook at Sheldon Brown's homemade tool for doing that. i made one and it works a treat. here's the link to Sheldon's instructions.
http://sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html

Cheers

[David Scheidt]

N8N <n8n...@gmail.com> wrote:

:Last night I started in on this again. I'd previously got the DS crank

off the spindle but the NDS was stuck tight. Well I rigged up a way
to apply Excessive Force (tm) to my crank arm puller, with less than
successful results. Rather than pulling the crank arm off the taper, the
puller ripped the threads right out of the crank arm. So that will have
to be cut off with an angle grinder.

I've used a jacobs chuck puller wedges to get a crank off a square
taper spindle. Worked great. They are two wedges, you put one in one
side, the other 180 degrees away, and tap them into place. Some bikes
might need a spacer between the bottom bracket shell and the wedges,
so the wedges bear on the crnak.

I'd get a est before getting an angle grinder.

--
sig 8

[avag...@gmail.com]

are we playing light jazz when using these tools ?

[AMuzi]

Yes, or a ball joint remover:

http://www.northerntool.com/images/product/2000x2000/259/25958_2000x2000.jpg

[N8N]

mmm, good idea. I have those, as well as the screw type tie rod/ball joint/pitman arm puller set.

it doesn't really matter though as the crankset was already trash which was the whole point of this exercise, as is the bottom bracket. At this point I need to get the bad parts off the frame without damaging the frame, everything else is irrelevant. Oddly I was able to get the seatpost, handlebars, and all bolts that go into braze-ons (yeah, I know, it's an aluminum frame, so they're not really brazed on) out and lubed/replaced as appropriate without damage. It's just the BB that is well and truly fighting me.

This is kind of a back burner exercise now as she has a bike to ride, but I either need to get this "useful" (even if that just means stripped to a rebuildable frame) or else trash it as I can't abide useless stuff taking up space.

nate

[N8N]

On Tuesday, July 21, 2015 at 11:15:57 PM UTC-4, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

Not that kind of BB. I have that on my own ride but this one appears to be square taper but a unitized Shimano thing e.g. UN55 or similar. I do have the tool for those cups, they're just In There But Good.

Upon reflection, some light heat on the frame followed by some freeze spray on the cups might get it, as the frame is aluminum but the cups are steel (I assume?)

nate