Frame pump recommendations wanted (special situation)
Noel Llopis
I've read all the previous posts on this topic on Google and I'm still left
with a lot of doubts on the topic. My LBS doesn't care a huge variety of
pumps, so maybe some of the folks here can help me out.
I'm looking for a frame pump for my bad weather/commuting cross bike. I'm
having difficulty finding a pump that will:
- Pump 35mm tires without spending forever
- Pump tires up to 80-90 psi (I'm using 35mm Bontrager Select K tires rated
to 100 psi)
- Fits easily on the frame
- Can take rain, mud, and neglect
The first two are self-explanatory and I know they're just a tradeoff. Some
of my data points are a Blackburn AS-1 Airstick (which pumps tires to
really high pressures, but takes forever on a larger tire), and a Blackburn
Mammoth (which has a lot of volume but there's no way I can make it past 60
psi or so).
I know people rave about full size frame pumps, but I'm not sure they'll fit
well on the frame. I need both water bottle cages, and it's a relatively
small frame, so putting something along the top tube will interfere with
taking the bottles in and out (it's a 50 cm Redline Conquest Pro frame).
I heard great comments about the Topeak Road Morph, but it looks somewhat
bulky. Any comments on how unobtrusively attaches to the frame? I'm
concerned that a pump with the added hose and such will suffer from mud and
water more somehow.
An alternate solution is to bring the Mammoth pump along, pump tires to
50-55 psi and top them off with a CO2 cartridge. Any comments on that?
Any recommendations welcome.
Thanks!
--Noel
David L. Johnson
> I heard great comments about the Topeak Road Morph, but it looks somewhat
> bulky. Any comments on how unobtrusively attaches to the frame? I'm
> concerned that a pump with the added hose and such will suffer from mud and
> water more somehow.
It's my favorite pump. The attachment clip is similar to the kind of clip
things like lights are attached with. Mine has lasted a couple years now.
Others have had trouble with the clip breaking, but so far, not me --
though I would like to find more of them so I could easily move the pump
from bike to bike.
Mine fits under the top tube; hard to imagine a bike where this would not
work (except for one that has no top tube...). I don't think it is more
prone to water/mud damage than other pumps. Having a hose is good -- less
likely to ruin the valve. Using it as a floor pump is better. 120lbs is
easy. Really. I have no clue about volume, though, since I have yet to
pump up a really big tire with it.
--
David L. Johnson
__o | This is my religion. There is no need for temples; no need for
_`\(,_ | complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our
(_)/ (_) | temple. The philosophy is kindness. --The Dalai Lama
Andy M-S
and it comes in four sizes (see here:
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=&subcategory=&brand=1252&sku=3481&storetype=&estoreid=)
so it's almost certain that you can get one to somewhere on your bike.
Some people put them along a chainstay...or maybe you could mount it
on the back of the seat tube if you have room. Oh yeah, it doesn't
cost an arm and a leg.
Noel Llopis <OUTllo...@verizonTHIS.net> wrote in message news:<3211117.L...@mirage.mirvilight.lan>...
Noel Llopis
> What you need is a Zefal HP-X. This is the ultimate full frame pump,
> and it comes in four sizes (see here:
>
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=&subcategory=&brand=1252&sku=3481&storetype=&estoreid=)
> so it's almost certain that you can get one to somewhere on your bike.
> Some people put them along a chainstay...or maybe you could mount it
> on the back of the seat tube if you have room. Oh yeah, it doesn't
> cost an arm and a leg.
What kind of attachment system does it use? The Zefal web site is pretty
close to useless and I haven't been able to get a straight answer anywhere.
It seems to come in three different sizes. Is it a spring-based system and
it just pushes against the frame? Does it need to have small frame
protrusions like the old-time frames? (because mine doesn't)
Thanks.
--Noel
Matt Locker
will fit on your frame tube. You can pump a tire to 130lbs with one of
these. Volume is very good with the longer ones but I don't know about
the shorter ones.
MOO,
Matt
MikeYankee
But I like the Blackburn FP-1 even better because its handle turns 90 degrees
to form a T, making it easier (for me) to reach high pressure.
I have a Topeak Road Morph on my touring bike. It works fine but on balance I
prefer the Blackburn.
Mike Yankee
(Address is munged to thwart spammers.
To reply, delete everything after "com".)
Qui si parla Campagnolo
I'm
having difficulty finding a pump that will:
- Pump 35mm tires without spending forever
- Pump tires up to 80-90 psi (I'm using 35mm Bontrager Select K tires rated
to 100 psi)
- Fits easily on the frame
Zephal HpX...4 sizes for a perfect fit.
Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
Steve Hambley
You don't need the protrusions, but they do make the attatchment a little more
secure. I just put one of those short Velcro straps around the pump and frame
for a little added security.
Steve
Dan Daniel
For the frame bump, Blackburn has an interesting recommendation- use a
small cable tie. The bump left after trimming can be used in place of
the frame bump.
I have no idea how this really works, or if it is really necessary.
Russell Seaton
it on loaded tours with 35 and 38 mm tires. I put up to about 100 psi
in these tires. I use it on tubulars and have gotten them up to 145
psi when switching tires on the side of the road once. I don't worry
about having mushy tires to finish a ride with this pump.
Road racing bike, loaded touring bike, fixed gear bike, moutain bike.
The Blackburn FP1 is the only frame pump I use.
Noel Llopis <OUTllo...@verizonTHIS.net> wrote in message news:<3211117.L...@mirage.mirvilight.lan>...
Rick Onanian
<OUTllo...@verizonTHIS.net> wrote:
>with a lot of doubts on the topic. My LBS doesn't care a huge variety of
>pumps, so maybe some of the folks here can help me out.
If your LBS won't order it for you, and it's the product you need,
then just order it mail-order. The "support your LBS" attitude is
great, but the practical limit is when they can't/won't get you what
you need.
>I know people rave about full size frame pumps, but I'm not sure they'll fit
>well on the frame. I need both water bottle cages, and it's a relatively
>small frame, so putting something along the top tube will interfere with
>taking the bottles in and out (it's a 50 cm Redline Conquest Pro frame).
Why not put it above the top tube? If you've got extra crotch
clearance, that should work fine.
>An alternate solution is to bring the Mammoth pump along, pump tires to
>50-55 psi and top them off with a CO2 cartridge. Any comments on that?
That sounds like a plan. Or, to save space and weight, you could get
a combination pump/CO2 inflator. I have an Innovations Slim Jim but
haven't needed to use it yet.
--
Rick Onanian
Mann
I would want to change. First, I would want a flexible
hose that attaches to the valve, so there is less lateral
pressure on it. And second, I would want a pressure
gauge.
Do any frame pumps have those 2 features?
Mann
Bill Putnam
> Noel-<< I'm looking for a frame pump for my bad weather/commuting cross bike.
>
> Zephal HpX...4 sizes for a perfect fit.
>
> Peter Chisholm
The Zefal HPX is by far my favorite frame pump. I have a similar
model hp on my commuting bike. This is a 21" (53 cm) frame Dunelt (a
Raleigh built Sports knock off) and there is space for a water bottle
on the down tube. I use a Zefal plastic clip for the top tube and a
toe strap around the top tube and pump to reduce the likelihood of the
pump falling off. The pump uses an internal spring to hold itself
within the frame. You mention cross bike-are you planning to race
cyclo-cross with a pump on your bike? If so then an under top tube
location is not desirable but so is just about any other location on
the bike if it is a cyclo cross bike.
You might see if your 50 cm frame has enough space to fit the pump
under the top tube along with your waterbottle access needs. If you
have enough space behind the seat tube this can be an option as well,
although the area around the bottom bracket tends to get more dirt on
it which is not a good thing for a pump. I could put my pump behind
the seat tube but it stays much cleaner under the top tube.
Bill Putnam
Dane Jackson
Topeak Road Morph. I'm quite happy with mine.
--
Dane Jackson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g
There are two kinds of fool. One says, "This is old, and therefore good."
And one says, "This is new, and therefore better"
-- John Brunner, "The Shockwave Rider"
Rick Warner
Zefal and Blackburn are only OK. Two problems: 1, the pump has a tendency
to bounce off on big bumps unless you use a velcro strap to hold it onto
the frame; 2, you have to find something to brace the wheel against to
pump, and it takes a darn hard push once you get above about 60 psi. You
can get the pressure up there, but you have to have a good brace, a strong
hand holding the pump body, and another strong hand to push the piston.
The Road Morph mounting system sucks, though the twofish alternative looks
like a potential fix. But the pump works great, you brace it against the
ground so you do not need a death grip on the barrel, the hose obviates the
need for bracing the wheel against an object, and it is trivial to get to
100 psi, and not much more effort to 120 psi. My Blackburn and Zefal are
in the storage cabinet; I now have multiple Road Morphs.
- rick
Benjamin Weiner
> Andy M-S wrote:
> > What you need is a Zefal HP-X. This is the ultimate full frame pump,
> > and it comes in four sizes (see here:
> What kind of attachment system does it use? The Zefal web site is pretty
> close to useless and I haven't been able to get a straight answer anywhere.
> It seems to come in three different sizes. Is it a spring-based system and
> it just pushes against the frame? Does it need to have small frame
> protrusions like the old-time frames? (because mine doesn't)
It is spring-loaded. You want two acute angles to mount it.
On your small Redline frame, it would probably mount between the
seattube-toptube junction and the ST-DT junction at the headtube.
Larger frames need a pump peg at the HT because of the >90 degree
angle at the HT-TT junction. (Mounting along the ST always works
but conflicts with a bottle cage.)
If you pick the bike up by the top tube a lot, a pump there is
annoying and mounting it along the left seatstay is an alternative.
Zefal HP-X is very common, some LBS nearby probably has one. They
may also have little strap-on pump pegs that Zefal makes which
can help with mounting in odd places.
Tim McNamara
Few quality pumps; lots o' crappy pumps over the years have had short
hoses like this. Topeak makes a couple of pumps like this, but then
have to be strapped on. They are not frame fit pumps. They operate
like a small one-handed floor pump in practice.
It is possible, with good technique, to use a pump such as the HP-X
without putting any bending movement on the valve stem.
Noel Llopis
full-frame pump (Zefal HpX) + a couple of velcro straps to secure it in
place (it's not supposed to look pretty).
I'll post again when I receive it with an initial impression report, but it
sounds exactly what I was looking for.
Thanks.
--Noel
Matt Locker
You must not be using the same HPx that I'm using!! Are you remembering
to lock out the spring? It's easy to get 90lbs into a tire, and I've
proven to myself that 130lbs is even doable. You just hold the pump on
the handle and stabilize the wheel with your thumb. I've never torn a
tube this way. As far as popping off the frame, maybe your pumps are
too short for the frame. I've ridden with an HPx on my bike - 3
different frames - and I've never had it pop off.
BTW, I bought a Blackburn (w/ rotating T handle) for the SO. It works
well for her but I don't think as well as the HPx.
MOO,
Matt
David Damerell
>I have a Zefal HP-X. It's ok, but there are 2 things
>I would want to change. First, I would want a flexible
>hose that attaches to the valve, so there is less lateral
>pressure on it.
This is not a good idea, because it vastly increases the volume between
the piston's final position and the tube valve, decreasing the maximum
attainable pressure. Only large-bored track pumps or low-pressure pumps
can sensibly have hoses.
--
David Damerell <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Kill the tomato!
Russell Seaton
> I have a Zefal HP-X. It's ok, but there are 2 things
> I would want to change. First, I would want a flexible
> hose that attaches to the valve, so there is less lateral
> pressure on it.
Why the need for a flexible hose? How about eliminating the lateral
pressure to begin with by changing your technique? When pumping up a
flat tire, hold the wheel up in the air with the pump. The wheel is
obviously off the bike. The frame pump head is clamped on the valve
stem in the 12 o'clock position. You stick the pump straight out with
the wheel resting on top of the valve. You have one hand cradled
around the pump head and the valve and the tire to hold it up in the
air. Then start pumping with the other hand of course. Gravity and
you not moving wildly when pumping will keep the wheel in a nice
vertical position on top of the valve and there will be no lateral
pressure.
And second, I would want a pressure
> gauge.
Why? When fixing spare tires on the side of the road I pump the tire
until I'm tired or I think its hard enough. Then finish the ride and
change tires again or use the Silca Super Pista to inflate the tire to
official pressure.
Mann
and according to the website inflates to 120 psi.
Mann
"David Damerell" <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
news:OOx*-y...@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk...
David Damerell
>"David Damerell" <dame...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote in message
>>>I have a Zefal HP-X. It's ok, but there are 2 things
>>>I would want to change. First, I would want a flexible
>>>hose that attaches to the valve, so there is less lateral
>>>pressure on it.
>>This is not a good idea, because it vastly increases the volume between
>>the piston's final position and the tube valve, decreasing the maximum
>>attainable pressure. Only large-bored track pumps or low-pressure pumps
>>can sensibly have hoses.
>and according to the website inflates to 120 psi.
Obviously this compromises the pump's design in some other way; either by
requiring a larger bore, a longer barrel, or a valve in the pump itself
which is then an extra point of failure.
The maximum pressure is proportional to the ratio between the volume of
space from piston to valve at the start of the stroke and the same volume
at the end of the stroke.
Rick Warner
> Rick:
>
> You must not be using the same HPx that I'm using!! Are you remembering
> to lock out the spring?
I know how to use the pump. Many, many, many years of experience.
> It's easy to get 90lbs into a tire,
Doable, not easy. Use a Road Morph and compare. RM = Easy, HPx =
doable
*IF* you brace the wheel against something sturdy.
> proven to myself that 130lbs is even doable.
With significant grunting, a steady fence/wall against which you can
brace the wheel, and vice grip hands.
> As far as popping off the frame, maybe your pumps are
> too short for the frame.
Nicht. Correctly sized. Problem with friction mounting - easy to
overcome
with proper amount of energy to overcome the friction. That is why
there is
a strong aftermarket for velcro pump straps - this is a very common
problem
- rick
Peter
> Matt Locker <mlockerL...@us.ibm.com> wrote in message news:<403600FF...@us.ibm.com>...
>
>>Rick:
>>
>>You must not be using the same HPx that I'm using!! Are you remembering
>>to lock out the spring?
>
>
> I know how to use the pump. Many, many, many years of experience.
>
>
>>It's easy to get 90lbs into a tire,
>
>
> Doable, not easy. Use a Road Morph and compare. RM = Easy, HPx =
> doable
> *IF* you brace the wheel against something sturdy.
Have used both - still prefer the HPx. But the Topeak RM isn't bad and the
gauge is a nice touch.
>
>
>>proven to myself that 130lbs is even doable.
>
>
> With significant grunting, a steady fence/wall against which you can
> brace the wheel, and vice grip hands.
Nope, don't use any of those.
Mann
available.
"Russell Seaton" <russell...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e90052be.04022...@posting.google.com...
Matt Locker
Then it must just be bad luck. I've never had a problem. I compared my
HPx to a Silca once. Pumped as hard as I could with the Silca and
finally stopped. Had about 70lbs in the tire. Put the HPx on and
pumped until I just got tired of pumping but could have put more air in.
The tire (100x23c) was at 130lbs. I find it a very easy pump to use,
and have used it on my tandem tires as well as the single.
I've always had pump pegs or the Zefal plastic peg. With my Serotta I
use the velcro strap because the pump bounces against the toptube.
Otherwise just pump/peg with no problems. I wouldn't want to use the
pump without a peg as the sliding end isn't really made to fit tightly
into anything except a peg.
MOO,
Matt
A Muzi
Sure. Topeak Road Morph. Only a couple of bucks more than
the Zefal.
BUt many riders find 'simple' an atractive feature as well -
fewer things to fail.
--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Frank Knox
"Dan Daniel" <ddandan...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:mqn930td2l8tlelu7...@4ax.com...
I put a tie around the head tube of my cyclocross bike. It works well and
no Velcro strap is needed.
Russell Seaton
could find a bike shop with a pump to borrow. I'm not shy about going
into a bike shop and asking to use their pump. Haven't been refused
or charged yet for this service. I suppose if you were touring in the
most remote spots on earth, there would be no floor pump or bike shop.
But I doubt it. Bicycles are pretty common throughout the world.
And I bet you could easily find a tire pump in some very remote spots
of the world. When you stop for lunch somewhere ask the restaurant
owner or shopkeeper if he has a pump you can use. I would bet he does
or would ask one of his regular customers to get you a pump or tell
you where the local bike shop is.
When touring loaded I carry a small, light Zefal tire gauge. I have
lots of pannier space and the weight doesn't bother me at all when
touring loaded.
"Mann" <Ma...@nohotmail.com> wrote in message news:<0PuZb.78647$%72.4...@twister.nyroc.rr.com>...
Noel Llopis
frame pump, size 2 (which is what fits my bike frame).
My first test was to try and pump tires that were already up to 100 psi and
I was able to do it without *any* trouble (and I don't have a strong upper
body). Just for kicks, I then tried it on my regular road bike with tires
pumped up to 120 psi and I was still able to pump air into them without too
much trouble (although it was definitely harder).
The next test was to let the air out of one of the tires and pump it from
scratch. The tires are 700c 35mm wide (30mm for real though). I didn't keep
exact count, but I was able to pump it to 80 psi in about 100-120 strokes.
I would have been able to pump it the rest of the way to 90-100 psi without
any trouble in another half a minute or so but I was too lazy ;-)
The pump is designed to be used without a pump peg (or so it says on the
label, but it also says it's designed to be mounted vertically on the seat
tube. I mounted it horizontally on the top tube and it stays very, very
solidly. It seems that the only way to knock it down is to push it
sideways. I'll still put a couple of strips of velcro just to make doubly
sure.
Finally, I was pleasantly surprised to see that I could still grab the bike
by the top tube, pump and all, and lift it and carry it downstairs. I was
afraid it would get in the way, but it was no problem, just a bit bulkier.
So it looks like a winner. Thanks everybody for the recommendations!
--Noel
dannyh...@gmail.com
Buy a bag for your back and get a foot pump,
avag...@gmail.com
replaced muh $10 Wal footpump (pumped by hand ) with the same shelf Zefal off equally questionable engineering durabbblility...
but the pump does huff n stuff....
solving the problem off spending more $$$ n not getting huff n stuff.
http://search.nrs.com/search/?p=Q&w=air%20pump
avag...@gmail.com
Patched with I forget which epoxy but not spec rubber as the cylinder's directions had walked off failing within 2 years. Too much flex. Planned obsolescence...larger yachts.
That's the deal with cheap hoseworks....keep the bend wide...electrical tape hose down to frame when NIU.
put a hole on the bott of a Wal bucket....patched with a glob of plastic epoxy onto prepped surface backed with duck tape...and LO ! if the sucker isn't holding.
5 years ago not likely.
and remember ! No 1 caws of pump complaints is worn tires.
John White
tube. The pump is 35 cm long, and on my bike there's about 8 cm of
back-and-forth flexibility in the mounting position. Mud and water
haven't been a problem, but I don't ride in the rain if I can avoid it
so my experience may not apply to you. On the rare occasions when I've
needed it, it has worked just fine.
avag...@gmail.com
I have one in the landfill.
When asking the long haul off road crew for pump suggestions the chorus was
MORPH MORPH MORPH
but take a look at Wal's Zefal then change te Zefal into a hand push rod pump like a very short floor pump. or a miniature NRS pump.
sms
> OK, before you chew me out for bringing up a frequent topic, let me say that
> I've read all the previous posts on this topic on Google and I'm still left
> with a lot of doubts on the topic. My LBS doesn't care a huge variety of
> pumps, so maybe some of the folks here can help me out.
If it'll fit on your frame this is what you want:
<http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/pu2.htm>
Unfortunately, one way bicycle manufacturers have cut costs is to
promote "compact frames" and many unsuspecting customers have fallen for
this scam.
You just need to measure the space and see if any of the Zefal HPX frame
pumps will fit.
Lou Holtman
Lou
Duane
the hose. Snaps along my down tube. I was disappointed when I bought my
tarmac that it wouldn't fit but things change. Anyway on this bike I need
both bottle cages.
I carry a Blackburn air stick that's good enough to form the tube and co2
cartridges. The air stick can pump the tire in a pinch but it's a pain.
As for the compact frame, this bike fits me better than any bike I've had
and being able to ride on the hoods is great for my back. I don't buy the
bit about compact frames being a ploy to save money. What are we talking,
5 ounces of carbon fiber? It would take a lot of that to equal the r&d
costs.
--
duane
John B.
wrote:
required to fit the various sizes of buyers.
--
Cheers,
John B.
Duane
sizes. At any rate, I think there was more than cost reduction involved in
the decision to use compact frames. This is my first compact frame but it
fits and handles better than any bike I've had.
--
duane
John B.
the consideration to make compact frames as so much of the commonly
known "facts" about bicycles (and perhaps many other things) are based
on what some bloke wrote in a magazine column. We hear, for example,
that to install a rivnut requires a fully equipped machine shop and
that Chinese LED flashlights are the acme of bicycle lighting.
I had a Giant a couple of years ago that had a compact frame and I now
ride a traditional steel frame and frankly I don't see enough
difference to make a stand about which is better. I like them both :-)
--
Cheers,
John B.
Duane
decision but I doubt if they're were the predominant one. I think that
there are other benefits but then again maybe if I was just touring or
commuting I wouldn't see them.
> I had a Giant a couple of years ago that had a compact frame and I now
> ride a traditional steel frame and frankly I don't see enough
> difference to make a stand about which is better. I like them both :-)
>
was a pretty comfortable bike to ride for touring. It has a typical
sport/tour frame and fits me ok for that type of riding. But I don't
tour much anymore, it's mostly either 25k each way commute or longer
club rides. For the club rides the riding is more aggressive and the
Tarmac is much better suited for it. Climbs better, handles better and
riding over the hoods instead of leaning more forward suits me better.
I noticed the difference recently as I had the Tarmac on my trainer for
the winter. I just took it down to tune it up for the season and put
the Bianchi on the trainer. I find it hard to ride the Bianchi now.
And this sort of bugs me because I like the Bianchi in a retro sort of
way. :-)
avag...@gmail.com
sms
> As for the compact frame, this bike fits me better than any bike I've had
> and being able to ride on the hoods is great for my back. I don't buy the
> bit about compact frames being a ploy to save money. What are we talking,
> 5 ounces of carbon fiber? It would take a lot of that to equal the r&d
> costs.
(though those do result), it's being able to offer fewer sizes and
compensating with seat posts, stems, and steer tubes of longer or
lengths. There was an old Midas Muffler commercial that perfectly fit
this trend, "fit? we'll MAKE it fit!."
There is probably no weight savings at all since any savings in frame
weight is offset by increased weight of other components to compensate
for the smaller frame. The frame is slightly stiffer but there is more
seatpost flex.
There are many downsides to compact frames. They usually don't fit the
rider as well. There is more seat tube flex. There is less room for
frame mount accessories like water bottle cages and pumps. You see
workardounds like side-entry cages, swiveling cages, small pumps (and
CO2), extenders for steer tubes, etc., which are designed to solve
problems that were caused by the manufacturers desire to save a few
bucks on initial cost. The problem is that they've turned a properly
dimensioned bicycle into a boutique item that costs a great deal because
it is no longer mass produced.
AMuzi
feature at one time. There are many designs now, some of
which are in normal size increments, some not.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Lou Holtman
Lou
sms
<snip>
> Mike Burrows, who popularized them, claimed that as a design feature at
> one time. There are many designs now, some of which are in normal size
> increments, some not.
of frame sizes is to offer them in different colors. Even Schwinn used
to offer the Varsity in four frame sizes and four colors.
sms
stop sign. It was a T intersection and she was at the top of the T on
the shoulder/bike lane so there was no possibility of cross traffic. She
was really pissed and the cop was asking her the brand of her bike so he
could write it on the ticket and she wasn't speaking. So he wrote down
"10 Speed Zefal." Maybe she could have fought the ticket since there is
no such thing as a 10 speed Zefal, plus I think the bicycle was 15 speeds.
Duane
> On 3/12/2014 3:14 AM, Duane wrote:
>
>> As for the compact frame, this bike fits me better than any bike I've had
>> and being able to ride on the hoods is great for my back. I don't
>> buy the
>> bit about compact frames being a ploy to save money. What are we
>> talking,
>> 5 ounces of carbon fiber? It would take a lot of that to equal the r&d
>> costs.
>
> It isn't really about the savings in materials cost and shipping cost
> (though those do result), it's being able to offer fewer sizes and
> compensating with seat posts, stems, and steer tubes of longer or
> lengths. There was an old Midas Muffler commercial that perfectly fit
> this trend, "fit? we'll MAKE it fit!."
>
> There is probably no weight savings at all since any savings in frame
> weight is offset by increased weight of other components to compensate
> for the smaller frame. The frame is slightly stiffer but there is more
> seatpost flex.
>
frame that is not compact.
> There are many downsides to compact frames. They usually don't fit the
> rider as well. There is more seat tube flex. There is less room for
> frame mount accessories like water bottle cages and pumps. You see
> workardounds like side-entry cages, swiveling cages, small pumps (and
> CO2), extenders for steer tubes, etc., which are designed to solve
> problems that were caused by the manufacturers desire to save a few
I have plenty of room for my two water bottles and a small pump. The
pump mount attaches to the same braise ons as the water bottle.
There is no place to mount paniers but I don't want them on this bike.
> bucks on initial cost. The problem is that they've turned a properly
> dimensioned bicycle into a boutique item that costs a great deal because
> it is no longer mass produced.
Nige Danton
> If it'll fit on your frame this is what you want:
> <http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/pu2.htm>
I've had a Zefal HPX in intermittent use for about 10 years without
problem.
--
Nige Danton - Replace the obvious with g.m.a.i.l
Duane
Nige Danton
> As I understand it the savings is in the fewer frame sizes that are
> required to fit the various sizes of buyers.
horizontal top tube.
Duane
when encountering a mad dog.
AMuzi
have at least changed for some bikes.
Duane
My 1992 Bianchi Volpe frame came in sizes 49cm, 52cm, 55cm, 58cm, 61cm.
So it actually had one less choice in size.
The Bianchi may have had more than one choice per size but it's about
the same idea as changing the stem though.
I don't see the issue. But then again, I'm not a very hard to fit
rider. 52 for the old style, 54 for the new one.
sms
> John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> As I understand it the savings is in the fewer frame sizes that are
>> required to fit the various sizes of buyers.
>
> Yes, that's my understanding too. Personally I Prefer the look of a
> horizontal top tube.
philosophy of fitment is about the same as that of folding bicycles with
seatposts and steer tubes that have very wide adjustment ranges.
Longer seatposts and longer steer tubes are the wrong way to make a
frame fit a wide variety of body sizes. But it's understandable that
manufacturers want to reduce the number of different SKUs by making each
SKU "fit" more riders. If only they could do the same thing with
clothing and shoes--there might be enough naive customers to go along
with that too.
sms
Duane
Lou Holtman
opinion on those days.
--
Lou
sms
> Burrows' first compact road bikes were S-M-L only, so things have at
> least changed for some bikes.
there used to be. I'm sure that bicycle shops are pretty happy to not
have to stock as many different sizes as they did back in the olden days.
Fortunately, there seems to be a slight resurgence of non-compact frame
bikes as more cyclists have realized the negatives of compact frames.
sms
web site. It's still available thanks to the Wayback machine. See
<http://web.archive.org/web/20011016151032/http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/innovation/sloping.html>
Of course this was the "old" Cannondale, not the present,
post-bankruptcy Cannondale, owned by Dorel.
James
>
> There are plenty frame pumps that will fit frames with sloping
> toptubes that are at least as good as the Zefal pump having a hose as
> a big plus compared to the Zefal pump. Most frames with sloping
> toptubes even can accomodate the Zefal pump you recommend. Once again
> you are stuck in your narrow minded thoughts. Frame design has moved
> on as pumps have. You missed the last 15 years. If you like frames
> with horizontal toptubes that is OK, but the only reason will be for
> looks/aesthetic reasons.
>
I cannot see that the corresponding reduction in seat tube (and tiny
reduction in seat stay) length could counter the weight gain of a longer
seat post.
I think compact frames are a sales thing.
--
JS
James
>
> I have that zefal hp on my touring bike. It's a great pump even without
> the hose. Snaps along my down tube. I was disappointed when I bought my
> tarmac that it wouldn't fit but things change. Anyway on this bike I need
> both bottle cages.
>
> I carry a Blackburn air stick that's good enough to form the tube and co2
> cartridges. The air stick can pump the tire in a pinch but it's a pain.
>
> As for the compact frame, this bike fits me better than any bike I've had
> and being able to ride on the hoods is great for my back. I don't buy the
> bit about compact frames being a ploy to save money. What are we talking,
> 5 ounces of carbon fiber? It would take a lot of that to equal the r&d
> costs.
>
http://www.lezyne.com/en/products/hand-pumps/high-pressure#!road-drive
Easily pumps road racing bike tyres up to normal riding pressure.
Fits neatly next to a cage.
Comes with a flexible hose so you don't snap the valve off.
Has a screw on end or a push on end.
I don't use CO2 canisters.
--
JS
sms
bicycle shop, so of course you will always see a defense of them by
those entities.
Cannondale got it right!
<http://web.archive.org/web/20011016151032/http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/innovation/sloping.html>
James
restricted water bottle access and so on.
Many now have curved sloping top tubes, that makes it really difficult
to use a bike carrier that clamps on to the top tube.
I'm glad I asked for a traditional horizontal top tube when I had my
racing bike designed.
--
JS
sms
not that small but as a result you get a lot of volume per stroke.
<http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004044PH6>.
sms
> And likely a disadvantage for many people who buy them - with the
> restricted water bottle access and so on.
>
> Many now have curved sloping top tubes, that makes it really difficult
> to use a bike carrier that clamps on to the top tube.
>
> I'm glad I asked for a traditional horizontal top tube when I had my
> racing bike designed.
the excitement of buying a new bicycle. Or they rationalize away the
disadvantages. "I can use a Camelback since I can't fit enough water
bottles anymore, I can use CO2 or a mini-pump instead of a Zefal HPX, I
can buy a car rack that works with this type of frame (and of course you
can't clamp the top tube of a CF frame anyway), etc.. Then they can post
on forums extolling the workarounds.
My cousin is now on her third CF racing bicycle, the last two frames
failed. Thank goodness for lifetime warranties. But the Facebook posts
of "my frame cracked again, does anyone have a bike I can borrow for
this weekend" are a bit annoying!
Joe Riel
How does the time required to fill a flat compare to a full size frame
pump? Do you pump it with one end on the ground? What is the "slip
fit" system? From the site: "One end of the hose is a threaded Presta
valve connection with ABS, while the other side has Lezyne's Slip Fit
system for fast valve engagement." What does that mean?
--
Joe Riel
avag...@gmail.com
saw a 29er compact with loooong ape hangers, taaaaaaaaalllllllllllllll seat post...like steering the back half on the ladder engine.
search compact bicycle frame ape hanger...
off course..
http://goo.gl/v3DaNh
the entire millyou sliped in without my noticing...on guard !
Duane
--
duane
sms
<snip>
>> My cousin is now on her third CF racing bicycle, the last two frames
>> failed. Thank goodness for lifetime warranties. But the Facebook posts of
>> "my frame cracked again, does anyone have a bike I can borrow for this
>> weekend" are a bit annoying!
>
> Got a link?
this will be okay: <http://oi59.tinypic.com/33a85mf.jpg>. She did win
first place with the bike she borrowed!
Going for the lightest possible bicycle does make some sense for racing,
but for something like century rides you probably want something more
durable than CF.
James
guess, but I find I can pump the short stroke pump pretty damn fast when
I want to, particularly when the air pressure is still low.
I have never used a stop watch to compare actual inflation time.
It is not intended to be used with one end on the ground. Hold both parts.
Either end of the flexible hose can be connected to the pump, the
difference being that the exposed end then either screws on to the valve
stem or pushes on ("slip fit") with just an o-ring seal and friction to
hold it. This works on smooth valve stems.
I prefer the screw on connection that seems to work on both threaded and
smooth valve stems.
The flexible hose fits neatly into the handle and screws in while not in
use. There are also rubber caps at both ends of the pump to stop crud
from entering the flexible tube while stored in the handle, and the pump
body.
--
JS
Duane
> On 3/12/2014 4:50 PM, Duane wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>> My cousin is now on her third CF racing bicycle, the last two frames
>>> failed. Thank goodness for lifetime warranties. But the Facebook posts of
>>> "my frame cracked again, does anyone have a bike I can borrow for this
>>> weekend" are a bit annoying!
>>
>> Got a link?
>
> Do I have a link to the Facebook posts of my cousin?! No. But I guess
> this will be okay: <http://oi59.tinypic.com/33a85mf.jpg>. She did win
> first place with the bike she borrowed!
>
due to broken frames. Like I told you when you were talking about all the
broken CF forks I don't see evidence of this.
> Going for the lightest possible bicycle does make some sense for racing,
> but for something like century rides you probably want something more durable than CF.
need a bike more durable? I could use my steel bike that weighs three times
as much but why would I want to?
From your cousin's experience it sounds like racing puts a lot of strain on
her frames.
--
duane
John B.
wrote:
>On 3/12/2014 8:31 AM, John B. wrote:
>> On Wed, 12 Mar 2014 11:05:55 +0000 (UTC), Duane <sp...@flarn.com>
>> wrote:
>>> John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 12 Mar 2014 10:14:05 +0000 (UTC), Duane <sp...@flarn.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Lou Holtman <lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Op woensdag 12 maart 2014 00:18:54 UTC+1 schreef sms:
>>>>>>> On Thursday, February 19, 2004 1:37:31 AM UTC, Noel Llopis wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> OK, before you chew me out for bringing up a frequent topic, let me say that
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've read all the previous posts on this topic on Google and I'm still left
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> with a lot of doubts on the topic. My LBS doesn't care a huge variety of
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> pumps, so maybe some of the folks here can help me out.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If it'll fit on your frame this is what you want:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <http://www.rivbike.com/product-p/pu2.htm>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Unfortunately, one way bicycle manufacturers have cut costs is to
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> promote "compact frames" and many unsuspecting customers have fallen for
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> this scam.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You just need to measure the space and see if any of the Zefal HPX frame
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> pumps will fit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> that are at least as good as the Zefal pump having a hose as a big plus
>>>>>> compared to the Zefal pump. Most frames with sloping toptubes even can
>>>>>> accomodate the Zefal pump you recommend. Once again you are stuck in your
>>>>>> narrow minded thoughts. Frame design has moved on as pumps have. You
>>>>>> missed the last 15 years. If you like frames with horizontal toptubes
>>>>>> that is OK, but the only reason will be for looks/aesthetic reasons.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> the hose. Snaps along my down tube. I was disappointed when I bought my
>>>>> tarmac that it wouldn't fit but things change. Anyway on this bike I need
>>>>> both bottle cages.
>>>>>
>>>>> I carry a Blackburn air stick that's good enough to form the tube and co2
>>>>> cartridges. The air stick can pump the tire in a pinch but it's a pain.
>>>>>
>>>>> As for the compact frame, this bike fits me better than any bike I've had
>>>>> and being able to ride on the hoods is great for my back. I don't buy the
>>>>> bit about compact frames being a ploy to save money. What are we talking,
>>>>> 5 ounces of carbon fiber? It would take a lot of that to equal the r&d
>>>>> costs.
>>>>
>>>> required to fit the various sizes of buyers.
>>>
>>> sizes. At any rate, I think there was more than cost reduction involved in
>>> the decision to use compact frames. This is my first compact frame but it
>>> fits and handles better than any bike I've had.
>>
>> It is hard to say whether financial considerations even entered into
>> the consideration to make compact frames as so much of the commonly
>> known "facts" about bicycles (and perhaps many other things) are based
>> on what some bloke wrote in a magazine column. We hear, for example,
>> that to install a rivnut requires a fully equipped machine shop and
>> that Chinese LED flashlights are the acme of bicycle lighting.
>
>I would imagine that financial considerations enter into every design
>decision but I doubt if they're were the predominant one. I think that
>there are other benefits but then again maybe if I was just touring or
>commuting I wouldn't see them.
>
>> I had a Giant a couple of years ago that had a compact frame and I now
>> ride a traditional steel frame and frankly I don't see enough
>> difference to make a stand about which is better. I like them both :-)
>>
>
>I guess a lot depends on your riding style. My cro-moly Bianchi Volpe
>was a pretty comfortable bike to ride for touring. It has a typical
>sport/tour frame and fits me ok for that type of riding. But I don't
>tour much anymore, it's mostly either 25k each way commute or longer
>club rides. For the club rides the riding is more aggressive and the
>Tarmac is much better suited for it. Climbs better, handles better and
>riding over the hoods instead of leaning more forward suits me better.
>
>I noticed the difference recently as I had the Tarmac on my trainer for
>the winter. I just took it down to tune it up for the season and put
>the Bianchi on the trainer. I find it hard to ride the Bianchi now.
>And this sort of bugs me because I like the Bianchi in a retro sort of
>way. :-)
>
Out of curiosity, why "hard" to ride?
--
Cheers,
John B.
James
water bottles and spares. I add about 400g for a dynamo hub and light
for normal road riding.
1 haven't come across to many CF bikes at 1/3 that weight. I don't have
a second road bike.
--
JS
Lou Holtman
Lou
Duane
upright but my weight is still not on my ass and lower back like a hybrid.
Of course the Bianchi has bar end shifters where the Tarmac has brifters
and the Bianchi is a 7 SPD triple where the Tarmac is a 10 speed double etc
etc so it's not just the frame.
--
duane
Duane
less durable?
--
duane
Duane
nothing against steel frames. I was looking for a steel frame when I
bought this one. The ones I liked were too expensive. And if it was
simply a weight issue I could lose about 10 LBS and that would make a lot
of difference.
--
duane
John B.
make a difference.
>Of course the Bianchi has bar end shifters where the Tarmac has brifters
>and the Bianchi is a 7 SPD triple where the Tarmac is a 10 speed double etc
>etc so it's not just the frame.
to ride. Awkward sometimes, but I wouldn't use the word hard.
--
Cheers,
John B.
Lou Holtman
Lou
AMuzi
That being said, my 1992 Kestrel fixie gets beaten badly in
urban abuse with no problems. It doesn't rust in road salt
either (although my equipment is a nice mix of brown former
steel and white former aluminum).
Duane
--
duane
Duane
>> Of course the Bianchi has bar end shifters where the Tarmac has brifters
>> and the Bianchi is a 7 SPD triple where the Tarmac is a 10 speed double etc
>> etc so it's not just the frame.
>
> I've got bar-ends on a sort of "compact" and I don't find them "hard"
> to ride. Awkward sometimes, but I wouldn't use the word hard.
better word.
Look I put at least 100,000 km on that bike so it's served me well. I'm
just saying I'm more comfortable on the other bike. This is highly
subjective at best. But the point is that maybe there are other
considerations involved in designing a compact frame besides lower costs.
Anyway, since the perceived savings comes from reduced numbers of sizes and
the Tarnac seems to be available in most of the normal sizes rather than
the presumed s-m-l I think that argument is nonsense.
--
duane
sms
> My bike with it's steel frame weighs 8.4kg ready to race, excluding
> water bottles and spares. I add about 400g for a dynamo hub and light
> for normal road riding.
>
> 1 haven't come across to many CF bikes at 1/3 that weight. I don't have
> a second road bike.
sms
> water bottles and spares. I add about 400g for a dynamo hub and light
> for normal road riding.
>
> 1 haven't come across to many CF bikes at 1/3 that weight. I don't have
> a second road bike.
does make a difference. Of course it makes little, if any, difference
for non-racing, it's all marketing driven. CF bikes are expensive not
because the materials are extraordinarily costly but the manufacturer
will likely have to supply two or three frame replacements over time. I
don't know anyone who is still on their original CF framed bicycle after
3 or four years unless they just keep it in their garage and never ride it.
sms
> to use a bike carrier that clamps on to the top tube.
by holding the wheel are now very popular. It's not just the shape of
the top tube that make the clamping carriers difficult, it's that you
can't clamp a CF frame at all, regardless of the shape of the top tube.
Nor do you want to clamp the bicycle's CF fork by the fork dropouts. You
don't even want to rest the bicycle on the wheels and hold it upright by
touching the frame. And you don't want to put the CF bike inside the
vehicle unless the vehicle has plenty of room for the bicycle and
nothing will be placed on top of it. I guess that one positive for
compact frames is that it's easier to fit a bicycle inside a vehicle.
Making things fragile has repercussions.
Frank Krygowski
> Op donderdag 13 maart 2014 11:19:28 UTC+1 schreef Duane:
>
> > less durable?
>
crack. I have friends who have owned them for many, many years. OK, one guy
did get a crack (a Kestrel, IIRC), but that's only one I know of many.
It's more that I think the benefits are over-hyped. Weight is quantifiable, but
that benefit is minor and applies only when climbing. I think the "road feel"
or "comfort" thing is mythical, and several CF riders I know agree with me.
I don't like the fact that torque wrenches and friction paste have to be used
so diligently. And I'm no crazy about the fashion for swoopy, non-circular
tubes that make installation of accessories a puzzle or an impossibility.
For someone doing highly competitive racing, those factors are negligible.
So for them, CF is fine. I don't race any more, and losing 1% of my total
bike+rider weight isn't going to improve my climbing noticeably. So I'll
stick with what I have: steel and aluminum.
- Frank Krygowski
Duane
frame - has an al fork. Still rides it. I know lots of people using CF
bikes and none with failures that aren't crash related.
--
duane
Duane
--
duane
sms
> racing bike designed.
frame geometry almost certainly requires a custom design. There may be
no non-compact, steel or titanium, mass-produced, racing bicycles anymore.
The good news, I guess, is that a custom made racing bicycle is likely
going to end up being less expensive than a mass-produced CF racing
bicycle, though much more than when you could just walk into a shop and
buy one off the shelf. I have a very tall nephew living in Minnesota. He
was going to buy a Rivendell but a local shop told him to forget it,
there were so many frame builders in the area from when Trek was
manufacturing steel bicycles in Wisconsin that he could get a custom
bike for about the same cost as a Rivendell. And of course the custom
made steel bicycle is going to have a far longer service life than a CF
bicycle, you can transport it easily, and the frame size doesn't dictate
the accessories you can add on.
jbeattie
By the way, Steven, points of correction: (1) in the good old days, shops were not packed to the rafters with different sized frames. The Raleigh Internation, for example, came in four sizes. Current production Treks come in 7-9 sizes (all compact), Cannondale 8 sizes, and Specialized 7-8 (Roubaix comes in a 63cm, but the Tarmac ends at 61cm). Later Paramounts came in a freakish number of sizes up to 27", but they were an exception. http://bikecatalogs.org/SCHWINN/1989/LightWeight/FULL/1989_Ltwt_02_fixed.jpg
And in the old days, shops rarely had top-end bikes to actually buy. They were displayed as wall art -- with the exception of PAB or Cupertino, which stocked nice bikes. The Los Gatos Schwinn shop had a Paramount on display. Saratoga Cyclery had a Raleigh Pro on display. In the good old days (whenever those were), you special ordered nice bikes. Now, I can walk to 10 stores in PDX and buy a bike that fits me and is really, really nice.
(2) CF is less expensive than high-end steel. My Cannondale Evo Red is being cleared out at $2,700 at one of the local brick-and-mortar shops. That's the price of a Red group and wheels. The frame is basically free.
(3) I have many friends on CF frames that are more than four years old. I have a friend who would have been on a Trek 5200 US Postal bike if he hadn't driven it in to his garage on a roof rack.
(4) CF is not just lighter, it is far stiffer by weight, so you get a bike that is lighter and stiffer where it counts. Sure, you don't need a light, stiff bike . . . we could all ride Swallows or some 'fiet, but if you're someone like me who still rides hard with others, it matters. Now, I am almost as happy on my old aluminum CAAD 9, but I do like the stiffer front end on my SuperSix.
(5) I don't own a compact, but I ride with people who do, and they seem to have no problem with water bottle clearance or any thing else, but then again, they might be exceptional.
(6) Even though I have a non-sloping DF frame, I quit using Zefal HPX because the thumb locks go flaccid and hit my leg, they can get knocked off in a sprint (thus I strapped mine to the top tube), they can eat valve stems. I much prefer the Road Morph for my commuter and the PRO/Lezyne on my racing-ish bikes.
-- Jay Beattie.
sms
<snip?
> Hey, at least the evil CF manufacturers give you a replacement. The steel-is-real (expensive) people give you a year warranty and maybe a discount on a replacement.
frame replacement by offering a big discount on a new, complete,
bicycle. Talk to an LBS about the manufacturer's "lifetime warranty" and
you'll touch a nerve.
> And in the old days, shops rarely had top-end bikes to actually buy. They were displayed as wall art -- with the exception of PAB or Cupertino, which stocked nice bikes.
The current version is about a five minute walk from my house but I've
probably been inside three times in the 14 years we've lived there.
One thing I found when bike buying is that there would usually be a shop
somewhere in the Bay Area that had the frame size I needed for the model
I wanted but shops weren't like car dealers in terms of swapping
inventory. Hence I've purchased bicycles in Berkeley, Richmond, San
Mateo, San Jose, Sunnyvale, Santa Clara, Union City, and four bikes in
Taipei (that was a long way to go, but no shops in my area carried the
model I wanted). Trying to support a LBS near me is often difficult
since they are unwilling to order more sizes unless it's a special order.
> (6) Even though I have a non-sloping DF frame, I quit using Zefal HPX because the thumb locks go flaccid and hit my
leg,
James
discover that it's steel, it becomes an object of interest.
They have to pick it up and feel how heavy it is, then usually the
eyebrows raise as they discover it ain't as heavy as they imagined.
--
JS
James
specify something like 6.8kg?
Then we're only talking about a couple of full water bottles.
And I haven't even got uber light wheels! I could probably save 400g on
wheels alone, if I wanted to spend mega bucks and fuss with glue and a
sewing kit.
--
JS
John B.
difficult to do, as opposed to difficult to get motivated :-)
>Look I put at least 100,000 km on that bike so it's served me well. I'm
>just saying I'm more comfortable on the other bike. This is highly
>subjective at best. But the point is that maybe there are other
>considerations involved in designing a compact frame besides lower costs.
more comfortable than my made to order horizontal top tube frame.
>Anyway, since the perceived savings comes from reduced numbers of sizes and
>the Tarnac seems to be available in most of the normal sizes rather than
>the presumed s-m-l I think that argument is nonsense.
the years bikes used in the TdeF have progressively gotten smaller.
Back in the day saddles were only a couple of inches higher than the
top tube, now they are probably a foot higher. I wonder whether
reducing the fame size makes for a more nimble bike, or only a lighter
bike?
--
Cheers,
John B.
Duane
> On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 12:35:47 +0000 (UTC), Duane <sp...@flarn.com>
> wrote:
>
> One thing I did notice in looking at current racing bikes is that over
> the years bikes used in the TdeF have progressively gotten smaller.
> Back in the day saddles were only a couple of inches higher than the
> top tube, now they are probably a foot higher. I wonder whether
> reducing the fame size makes for a more nimble bike, or only a lighter
> bike?
maintaining so I doubt that's it. Shorter length frame makes a bike
"twitcher" but I'm not sure what a smaller bike would get you.
--
duane
Sir Ridesalot
> John B. <slocombjb@> > On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 12:35:47 +0000 (UTC), Duane <@flarn.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >
>
> <snip>
>
> >
>
> > One thing I did notice in looking at current racing bikes is that over
>
> > the years bikes used in the TdeF have progressively gotten smaller.
>
> > Back in the day saddles were only a couple of inches higher than the
>
> > top tube, now they are probably a foot higher. I wonder whether
>
> > reducing the fame size makes for a more nimble bike, or only a lighter
>
> > bike?
>
>
>
> There's a minimum weight requirement that they already have trouble
>
> maintaining so I doubt that's it. Shorter length frame makes a bike
>
> "twitcher" but I'm not sure what a smaller bike would get you.
>
> --
>
> duane
Cheers
John B.
>John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 12:35:47 +0000 (UTC), Duane <sp...@flarn.com>
>> wrote:
>>
><snip>
>>
>> One thing I did notice in looking at current racing bikes is that over
>> the years bikes used in the TdeF have progressively gotten smaller.
>> Back in the day saddles were only a couple of inches higher than the
>> top tube, now they are probably a foot higher. I wonder whether
>> reducing the fame size makes for a more nimble bike, or only a lighter
>> bike?
>
>There's a minimum weight requirement that they already have trouble
>maintaining so I doubt that's it. Shorter length frame makes a bike
>"twitcher" but I'm not sure what a smaller bike would get you.
that had photos from very early in the race's history until the
present day and the shape of the bike has changed substantially.
I'm wondering why.
Re weight, I read one account where they had to ballast a CF bike to
make the grade :-)
--
Cheers,
John B.