Rudge-Whitworth wire wheels moderated out from urcm
thirty-six
is referenced below.
The following was a message not accepted through moderation of
uk.rec.cycling.moderated
I've re-submitted it there and now here. I
On 7 Nov, 17:42, Marc <initial.surn...@btintenret.com> wrote:
> thirty-six wrote:
> > On 7 Nov, 12:38, Marc <initial.surn...@btintenret.com> wrote:
> >> thirty-six wrote:
> >>> On 7 Nov, 07:31, James <james.an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> On Nov 7, 10:40 am, James <james.an...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> On Nov 7, 8:25 am, real-not-anti-spam-addr...@apple-juice.co.uk (D.M.
> >>>>> Procida) wrote:
> >>>>>> Just zis Guy, you know? <guy.chap...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> >>>>>>>> The proof of the pudding is in the eating. My wheels work better than
> >>>>>>>> normal construction. I explain to the best of my abilities why. I do
> >>>>>>>> not need to prove my explanation. I, unlike you, spent much time
> >>>>>>>> questioning mechanics and researching historical documents to give
> >>>>>>>> clues as to why there are different experiences for apparently similar
> >>>>>>>> wheels.
> >>>>>>> Who says your wheels work better? You? Are you the most impartial
> >>>>>>> judge? To the extent that it exempts you from having to prove your
> >>>>>>> case other than by assertion?
> >>>>>> You seem to think that he owes you a proof.
> >>>>>> If I said I'd discovered some way of tying my shoelaces that was
> >>>>>> counter-intuitive, ran contrary to the accepted wisdom of
> >>>>>> shoelace-tying, and produced better results traditional methods, then
> >>>>>> I'd expect anyone else who's interested in shoelace tying to be curious
> >>>>>> and skeptical.
> >>>>> I am curious and sceptical, but also have a decent bullshit detector.
> >>>>> When people attempt to overturn established wisdom, they had better
> >>>>> have a decent story. Thirty-six doesn't (or to be pedantic, if he
> >>>>> does, he hasn't written it here).
> >>>> And I should have added that the topic of bicycle wheel-building has
> >>>> long been a flypaper for cranks with "theories".
> >>>> James
> >>> Upon some further searching, it appears that Rudge-Whitworth of
> >>> Coventry appears to have investigated the best ways to construct wire
> >>> wheels for bicycles, motor-cycles and horse carriages and motor -cars
> >>> including racing cars.
> >>> According to Rudge's advert taken in the Times newspaper on Friday
> >>> November 8,1912 page 14 column A the Daimler Company reported a
> >>> mileage of 172,731 for 50 tyres on Rudge's wire wheels and 102,524
> >>> miles on wood wheels. It refers to 'Autocar' and letters from the
> >>> Daimler Company of July 8 and December 2 1911
> >> Yes, yes, and coal was tuppence a ton in 1870. Now that we have finished
> >> with the wavy sepia toned nostalgia bit can we get back to the point (
> >> of this part of the drifted thread) ? Why are your wheels "better" and
> >> how can you show that they are?
>
> > Read this:
>
> > Society Of Arts.; Wheels And Their Manufacture.
> > (News)
> > The Times Apr 19, 1911; pg. 23; Issue 39563; Start column: E 1586
> > words.
> > Elec. Coll.: CS387120275.
>
> > It explains that the efficient Rudge tension wheels, by far the
> > largest manufacturer, and record holders, are constructed for ease of
> > running etc. as I have described in my own wheels. Rudge linearage
> > is from Covenrtry machinist company with the Starley Aeriel wheel to
> > Raleigh bicycles (originally with dunlop then weinmann and their own
> > (sun)rims) and now Sun (ringko?) rims in USA. Rudge probably made the
> > greatest investigation into the use of pnuematic tyres running on wire
> > spoked metal rims. It is likely a little research into Coventry
> > archives on the Rudge-Whitworth research laboratories will provide
> > extensive documentation upon the testing of the wheels they built for
> > bicycle and motor vehicle for efficiency of draw, shock absorption and
> > tire life. It as likely, probably wont satisfy your demands. I'm
> > afraid I cant hold the spoon for you.
>
> I read the article, a newspaper report of paper presented by Mr Henry L
> Heathcote. It was intersting in mentioning hubs of different sizes
> internally and externally , different Nos of spokes inside and outside
> and moving the holes in the rim to the edge rather than to the middle.I
> also found intersting the idea of drilling the holes in the hub at an
> angle to reduce the stress on the spoke , rather than bending it through
> 90 degrees. Nowhere in the article does it mention you or how
> wonderful your wheels are going to be. If you thought that you could try
> and pretend that you had some sort of authority by posting a reference
> to a 98 yr old newspaper article (which just happened to share a page
> with an advert that promoted Rudge-Whitworth wheels) that that you
> hoped no-one would have access to, it might be a good idea if you
> reconsidered your tactics, don't try to kid a kidder!
Awkward cuss.
paragraph 2
"The introduction of the suspension wheel for bicycles marked a great
advance in the shock-absorbing powers of wheels."
para 3:
"In it [tangent spoke suspension wheel] the necessary torque rigidity
could be attained without imparting excessive radial rigidity, and
thus it could be made capable of absorbing shock, as
a comparison of a suspension wheel with a section of tire would bring
out clearly."
para 4:
"the greater the tension the less the rim flattened, and the less the
tension the "softer" was the wheel." "the artproduced its bestwhen
sufficient tension to produce torque rigidity was
combined with conditions that developed the wheel a MAXIMUM cushioning
effect, these conditions being moderate spoke tension combined with
with a flexible and resilient rim and
thin spokes."
The paragraph continues extolling the virtues of Rudge wheels as does
paragraphs 5 onwards to the end of the document, paragraph 9.
Also the Institute of Automobile engineers report on the same page.
Try reading the Society of arts report as I advised.
thirty-six
> Rudge's research laboriatories finds "soft" wheels best. The article
> is referenced below.
>
> The following was a message not accepted through moderation of
> uk.rec.cycling.moderated
> I've re-submitted it there and now here. I
>
and then urc and magically six hours after posting it appears on urcm
with a half dozen (not actually counted) of my later posts appearing
before it.
Mike Causer
Seems quite reasonable to me, poking Jobst with a pointy stick should
not be allowed lightly.
You and Jobst are from the same foundry if not the same mould. Both of
you /can/ talk very good sense, and /can/ be rather von Däniken-ish at
times. Jobst does have real engineering credentials on his side
though. Who has the better command of rhetoric, I wonder?
I hope this stays in rbt and doesn't spill into urcm, where the mods
will rightly kill it.
Mike
--
Mike Causer
thirty-six
> On Sat, 7 Nov 2009 17:34:00 -0800 (PST)
>
> > On 8 Nov, 00:41, thirty-six <thirty-...@live.co.uk> wrote:
> > > Rudge's research laboriatories finds "soft" wheels best. The article
> > > is referenced below.
>
> > > The following was a message not accepted through moderation of
> > > uk.rec.cycling.moderated
> > > I've re-submitted it there and now here. I
>
> > and then urc and magically six hours after posting it appears on urcm
> > with a half dozen (not actually counted) of my later posts appearing
> > before it.
>
> Seems quite reasonable to me, poking Jobst with a pointy stick should
> not be allowed lightly.
I try to leave his name out of it as much as I can, its others who
first reference him when I'm trying to be serious. I am addressing an
issue he has not. I do not as a rule attack Jobst, but yes I could be
at times be giving a little harder prod than he'd like.
>
> You and Jobst are from the same foundry if not the same mould. Both of
> you /can/ talk very good sense, and /can/ be rather von Däniken-ish at
> times.
??
> Jobst does have real engineering credentials on his side
> though. Who has the better command of rhetoric, I wonder?
>
> I hope this stays in rbt and doesn't spill into urcm, where the mods
> will rightly kill it.
>
ten hours and counting for a post made today.
Norman
> Rudge's research laboriatories finds "soft" wheels best. The article
> is referenced below.
>
> The paragraph continues extolling the virtues of Rudge wheels as does
> paragraphs 5 onwards to the end of the document, paragraph 9.
> Also the Institute of Automobile engineers report on the same page.
> Try reading the Society of arts report as I advised.
http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCoLOCO/fontaine/fontaine.htm
http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/MUSEUM/LOCoLOCO/holman/holman.htm