Embalmers baffled by clots in blood

Andre Jute

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Sep 12, 2022, 6:59:25 PM9/12/22

to

Report: Embalmers Notice Something Very Unusual Happening to Human Blood
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2022/09/12/embalmers-notice-major-uptick-in-clotting-n2612909

One has to wonder, as these embalmers are, whether this is a by-product of the vaccines, and whether it is responsible for deaths...

Andre Jute
Are you fully vaccinated, boosted, topped up and electrified? Perhaps you should have been more careful what you wished for.

Jeff Liebermann

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Sep 12, 2022, 9:04:41 PM9/12/22

to

On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 15:59:23 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
<fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Report: Embalmers Notice Something Very Unusual Happening to Human Blood
>https://townhall.com/tipsheet/leahbarkoukis/2022/09/12/embalmers-notice-major-uptick-in-clotting-n2612909
>
>One has to wonder, as these embalmers are, whether this is a by-product of the vaccines, and whether it is responsible for deaths...

Subscription ($49/year) is required to read the article.

Similar articles were previously posted as "fibrous" blood since about
April 2021.
<https://www.google.com/search?q=embalmers+white+fibrous+blood>

Fact Checking:
<https://fullfact.org/online/funeral-director-no-evidence/>
<https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2022/theres-no-scientific-evidence-that-vaccines-are-responsible-for-strange-blood-clots-observed-by-embalmers/>

When I was much younger, I worked in a mortuary. However, I was not
involved in preparing the bodies. I just swept the floor and helped
keep the place clean. I would offer an opinion, but I don't consider
myself qualified.

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Tom Kunich

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Sep 15, 2022, 10:47:00 AM9/15/22

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The latest issue of Cell has a study done by a VERY large group of scientists and it says that if you have taken the vaccine it appears to have "trained" your immune system to not recognize later mutations of the SARS-Cov-2 virus. It is nice to know that the stupid six who immediately ran down and got vaccinated to spite me for telling them that the disease was too minor to worry about vaccinations.

So now the non-vaxxers will catch each new mutation of the SARS virus until their immune system recognizes it and it is no longer a threat and those who got the vaccines will grow more and more ill with each mutation until it kills them. I'm sure that Liebermann will be the first to go since he has spent an entire life without living anyway.

Jeff Liebermann

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Sep 15, 2022, 2:41:51 PM9/15/22

to

On Thu, 15 Sep 2022 07:46:58 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>The latest issue of Cell has a study done by a VERY large group
>of scientists and it says that if you have taken the vaccine it
>appears to have "trained" your immune system to not recognize
>later mutations of the SARS-Cov-2 virus.

It's been a while since I've read your "amazing facts". Do you have a
link to the study so I can read what the study says instead of reading
your interpretation? Start here:
<https://www.cell.com>
No, it's not my job to find links to YOUR claims.

>It is nice to know that the stupid six who immediately ran down
>and got vaccinated to spite me for telling them that the
>disease was too minor to worry about vaccinations.

Was it you who proclaimed that Covid-19 was no worse than the flu? If
it was, then the mutations should also be no worse than the flu.

>So now the non-vaxxers will catch each new mutation of the
>SARS virus until their immune system recognizes it and it is
>no longer a threat and those who got the vaccines will grow
>more and more ill with each mutation until it kills them.
>I'm sure that Liebermann will be the first to go since he has
>spent an entire life without living anyway.

I just got a bunch of emails from various local pharmacies offering
the booster shots that include the latest variants.
<https://www.riteaid.com/covid-19/third-dose>
Looks like the latest variants are now almost 100% of the current
infections:
<https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#variant-proportions>
Yeah, a booster that includes these might be a good idea.

John B.

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Sep 15, 2022, 6:44:44 PM9/15/22

to

On Thu, 15 Sep 2022 11:41:45 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

But Jeff.... you are talking to a bloke who was so "dumb" that he was
unable to get through high school and who now, apparently due to a
vivid imagination, or perhaps falling off his bicycle, has,
miraculously become an expert in the medical field.

--
Cheers,

John B.

Jeff Liebermann

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Sep 15, 2022, 7:49:49 PM9/15/22

to

On Fri, 16 Sep 2022 05:44:33 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>

I try not to criticize the messenger and prefer to concentrate on the
claims and information. I once made that mistake when AT&T announce
OFDM (orthogonal frequency division multiplex) which I immediately
declared to be bogus and impossible. Today OFDM is used in all Wi-Fi
devices and most cell phones. It was a very embarrassing lesson that
I don't want to repeat. I'll give Tom the benefit of the doubt and
assume (until proven otherwise) that he had found a research article
that claims something that I find difficult to believe.

Also, Andre Jute has declared that:
"I follow Tom because he's smarter and better informed from much wider
experience than you clowns. Tom's been proved riotously right about
the pandemic, and with him me."

When Tom provides the missing URL and I am able to read the original
research report, I might be able to claim that both Tom and Andre are
wrong. For the gamblers among the readers, there's a possibility that
Tom's unspecified source may actually be correct.

Mike A Schwab

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Sep 15, 2022, 7:53:24 PM9/15/22

to

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 5:59:25 PM UTC-5, Andre Jute wrote:
<deleted>

> Are you fully vaccinated, boosted, topped up and electrified? Perhaps you should have been more careful what you wished for.

The vaccine for the Wuhan original COVID19 virus was effective against infections for about 3 months and effective for reduced severity after that, until Omicron variant existed. Then the vaccines were only reduced severity.
So the current boosters have mRNA against both viruses. If you haven't got the original Wuhan COVID19 shots, you need them first.
https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20220912/faq-new-covid-omicron-boosters

Tom Kunich

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Sep 15, 2022, 8:23:08 PM9/15/22

to

Mike, the vaccines were ineffective from the very start because they ALREADY had Omicron as the main source of infection the day that the vaccines were released. That was mid-December 2020 AFTER Biden had been elected. All of these mandatory calls for vaccination had absolutely nothing to do with prevention, preventing the spread of the virus or making the infection have less serious symptoms.

What's more, in a study authored by over 40 researchers, it was claimed that those vaccinated had immune systems that had been "taught" to not recognize the other variants. So vaccinated people and people most especially with boosters were in more danger than those that were not vaccinated at all.

Let's make this clear, the WHO does NOT believe that this virus came from a "wet market" 1200 miles from the cave where the only bats that have this infection live. Fauci paid for China to build and operate a Class A containment facility. Then he paid them to use research methods illegal in the rest of the world because it was actually the means of developing bio-weapons. WHO has not even turned down the possibility that this virus was developed in other laboratories in the USA which would make Fauci a criminal since the US is a signee on the treaty against development of bio-weapons. This is why Fauci is retiring - he knows that after the Republicans get control of Congress they are going to ask questions that might end up with his spending the rest of his life in prison.

I worked on the means of discovering the CAUSE of AIDS. During this time I had a serious run-in with Fauci. During his time in the CDC that ass has never made one single intelligent decision.

So the answer is - NO the vaccines NEVER worked, the virus was developed using "Gain of Function" techniques which were against the law everywhere in the world except China and now the vaccines themselves appear to have poisoned the vaccinated population over time.

AMuzi

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Sep 15, 2022, 8:53:41 PM9/15/22

to

How about some good news?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/two-antibodies-identified-in-israel-can-fight-all-known-covid-strains-study-finds/

or 'tikkun olam' as the locals phrase it.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

John B.

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Sep 15, 2022, 9:02:43 PM9/15/22

to

On Thu, 15 Sep 2022 16:49:41 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>

But most successful gamblers bet on the side that is most likely to be
right. Where the odds are with them, in other words. So yes there is a
possibility that Tommy may be correct... after all he has been correct
at least 3 times in the past 17 years, but the odds aren't with him.
17 years is 6205 days, so assuming 1 post daily the odds are 6205/3 =
1 in 2,068. If it is a roulette wheel and you win 1 in 2,068 spins you
will go home broke.
--
Cheers,

John B.

Jeff Liebermann

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Sep 15, 2022, 10:19:24 PM9/15/22

to

Thanks. The world could use some good news for a change. I skimmed
through the report:

"Conformational flexibility in neutralization of SARS-CoV-2 by
naturally elicited anti-SARS-CoV-2 antibodies"
<https://doi.org/10.1038/s42003-022-03739-5>
<https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-022-03739-5.pdf>

Unfortunately, the article is well above my ability to understand much
more than the basics. I'll read more in a few days as more time
becomes available. It's nice that the report has been peer reviewed.
Note that 3 of the authors are from Tsinghua University, Bejing. Nice
to see international cooperation. The big question is probably
whether these antibodies will prevent re-infection.

What can go wrong? By the time these antibodies are available for
use, the variants with which the antibodies work well will have
disappeared to be replaced by new and improved variants which may or
may not be inhibited by these two antibodies. It's very much a moving
target.

Thanks again.

Jeff Liebermann

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Sep 15, 2022, 10:24:32 PM9/15/22

to

On Thu, 15 Sep 2022 17:23:06 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

<politicized medicine rubbish deleted>

Hey Tom. Could take a few minutes off from your Politics in Medicine
lectures to find the original article in <https://www.cell.com> which
you cited and which demonstrates your claim that:

>The latest issue of Cell has a study done by a VERY large group
>of scientists and it says that if you have taken the vaccine it
>appears to have "trained" your immune system to not recognize
>later mutations of the SARS-Cov-2 virus.

Thanks.

Jeff Liebermann

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Sep 15, 2022, 10:39:02 PM9/15/22

to

On Thu, 15 Sep 2022 19:24:23 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Thu, 15 Sep 2022 17:23:06 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
><cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
><politicized medicine rubbish deleted>
>
>Hey Tom. Could take a few minutes off from your Politics in Medicine
>lectures to find the original article in <https://www.cell.com> which
>you cited and which demonstrates your claim that:
>
>>The latest issue of Cell has a study done by a VERY large group
>>of scientists and it says that if you have taken the vaccine it
>>appears to have "trained" your immune system to not recognize
>>later mutations of the SARS-Cov-2 virus.
>
>Thanks.

This is the index to the current issue (Sept 15) of Cell.
<https://www.cell.com/cell/current> or
<https://www.cell.com/cell/issue?pii=S0092-8674(21)X0020-7>
There's one article which mentions Covid:
"Deep mutational scanning identifies SARS-CoV-2 Nucleocapsid escape
mutations of currently available rapid antigen tests"
<https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(22)01044-3>
which does not mention vaccination or loss of acquired immunity.

I also checked the previous two issues (Sept 1 and Aug 18) and found
nothing:
<https://www.cell.com/cell/issue?pii=S0092-8674(21)X0019-0>
<https://www.cell.com/cell/issue?pii=S0092-8674(21)X0018-9>

Incidentally, I did thing this article, which might be of interest:
"Harnessing social media to challenge scientific misinformation"
<https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(22)00848-0>
Unfortunately, the article is hidden behind a paywall.

ritzann...@gmail.com

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Sep 16, 2022, 3:33:03 AM9/16/22

to

On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 7:23:08 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 4:53:24 PM UTC-7, Mike A Schwab wrote:
> > On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 5:59:25 PM UTC-5, Andre Jute wrote:
> > <deleted>
> > > Are you fully vaccinated, boosted, topped up and electrified? Perhaps you should have been more careful what you wished for.
> > The vaccine for the Wuhan original COVID19 virus was effective against infections for about 3 months and effective for reduced severity after that, until Omicron variant existed. Then the vaccines were only reduced severity.
> > So the current boosters have mRNA against both viruses. If you haven't got the original Wuhan COVID19 shots, you need them first.
> > https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid-19-vaccine/news/20220912/faq-new-covid-omicron-boosters
> Mike, the vaccines were ineffective from the very start because they ALREADY had Omicron as the main source of infection the day that the vaccines were released. That was mid-December 2020 AFTER Biden had been elected.

??????????????????????????????
Tommy, do you realize what you just admitted??????????????
The Trump MAGA Qanon extremists will be coming for you tonight Tommy. You will be lynched from the nearest tree before morning. Bye Tommy. Nice knowing you. (Actually it wasn't.)

I am not going to respond to the rest of Tommy's nonsense below.

ritzann...@gmail.com

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Sep 16, 2022, 3:35:41 AM9/16/22

to

John, an 80-1 long shot won the Kentucky Derby this year.

John B.

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Sep 16, 2022, 5:16:26 AM9/16/22

to

I hate to tell you but an 80-1 shot is somewhat different then one
chance in 2,068 (:-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

sms

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Sep 16, 2022, 11:17:34 AM9/16/22

to

On 9/15/2022 4:49 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

<snip>

> Also, Andre Jute has declared that:
> "I follow Tom because he's smarter and better informed from much wider
> experience than you clowns. Tom's been proved riotously right about
> the pandemic, and with him me."
>
> When Tom provides the missing URL and I am able to read the original
> research report, I might be able to claim that both Tom and Andre are
> wrong. For the gamblers among the readers, there's a possibility that
> Tom's unspecified source may actually be correct.

Jeff, have you considered using all the time that you spend making fun
of Tom's and Andre's lies in a more productive way? Maybe reopen your
business in Santa Cruz so then at least you can earn money for your
time. AFAIK, you're not making any money by making Tom & Andre look
foolish.

Frank Krygowski

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Sep 16, 2022, 11:29:57 AM9/16/22

to

Jeff is not _making_ Tom & Andre look foolish. They do that voluntarily.

And Jeff is certainly allowed to choose his hobbies. After all, there's much more to life
than making money. I, for one, am grateful for Jeff's posts.

- Frank Krygowski

Jeff Liebermann

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Sep 16, 2022, 12:01:55 PM9/16/22

to

On Fri, 16 Sep 2022 08:17:30 -0700, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

>On 9/15/2022 4:49 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> Also, Andre Jute has declared that:
>> "I follow Tom because he's smarter and better informed from much wider
>> experience than you clowns. Tom's been proved riotously right about
>> the pandemic, and with him me."
>>
>> When Tom provides the missing URL and I am able to read the original
>> research report, I might be able to claim that both Tom and Andre are
>> wrong. For the gamblers among the readers, there's a possibility that
>> Tom's unspecified source may actually be correct.

>Jeff, have you considered using all the time that you spend making fun
>of Tom's and Andre's lies in a more productive way?

No, not really. I consider fact checking to be a recreational
exercise and somewhat of a sport. It's also somewhat like a mystery
story, where the object is to find sufficient evidence to convict the
obvious culprit. There's no immediate reward, but the satisfaction of
defeating the culprits in their unending campaign to replace truth
with politics is sufficient gratification.

Actually, I had no idea that Tom's vaccination claim, allegedly from
the Cell publication, were a fabrication. I originally assumed that
Tom had read about it in a right wing publication. I never even
considered the possibility that he had contrived the story. A link to
the right wing publication would have been sufficient.

>Maybe reopen your
>business in Santa Cruz so then at least you can earn money for your
>time.

I've already done so, but not in Santa Cruz. I miss the office, but
not the accompanying headaches, hassles and expenses. I'm doing ok
working from home.

>AFAIK, you're not making any money by making Tom & Andre look
>foolish.

True. I should fund my efforts through a Kickstarter campaign or
simply extort money from my victims. Tom has hinted that he has
millions to fund his bicycle stable, while Andre seems to have lived a
rather opulent lifestyle. Anyone who can afford a Rohloff gear hub
must be wealthy. They should have some surplus money available to
fund my decadent and lavish lifestyle. Thanks for the suggestion.

Drivel: Gone for yet another walk in Quail Hollow County Park. It's
not a good substitute for a bicycle ride but it's the best I can do.

Sepp Ruf

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Sep 16, 2022, 3:59:15 PM9/16/22

to

Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 11:17:34 AM UTC-4, sms wrote:
>> On 9/15/2022 4:49 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>> Also, Andre Jute has declared that:
>>> "I follow Tom because he's smarter and better informed from much wider
>>> experience than you clowns. Tom's been proved riotously right about
>>> the pandemic, and with him me."

So what's your issue with that, Jeff?

>>> When Tom provides the missing URL and I am able to read the original
>>> research report, I might be able to claim that both Tom and Andre are
>>> wrong. For the gamblers among the readers, there's a possibility that
>>> Tom's unspecified source may actually be correct.

Come on, you didn't even respond, if only to debunk, to a very clear,
simple graph I had suggested you look up: a worrying pattern in
Israel's data on JHU showing death numbers repeatedly increasing _after_
the kickoffs of their national vaccination campaigns. Now you want to
process a Science text? You are the one triple pfizer-shot, so why are
you not up to date on the OAS / priming topics? This article is from June:
<https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abq1841>

>> Jeff, have you considered using all the time that you spend making fun
>> of Tom's and Andre's lies in a more productive way? Maybe reopen your
>> business in Santa Cruz so then at least you can earn money for your
>> time. AFAIK, you're not making any money by making Tom & Andre look
>> foolish.

I doubt Jeff's efforts are even benefitting his health.

> Jeff is not _making_ Tom & Andre look foolish.

Why should we trust your judgment, Frank? See, we know for a fact that
your brain twists Tom and Andre's image by 180 degrees!

I did not keep track, of course, but since you became a collage
professor, and a bicycle club officer, have you ever admitted, at least
once, to looking foolish as an adult, except for intentional reasonsit
intentionally, especially for virtuous causes?

Oh, what again was the original topic? Pulled-pfizerpork pasta and
calamari structures, wasn't it:
<https://www.rintrah.nl/why-are-embalmers-finding-fiber-clots-in-blood-vessels-of-the-deceased/>

AMuzi

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Sep 16, 2022, 4:36:05 PM9/16/22

to

There are some eyebrow-raising reports on various as yet
inexplicable anomalies:

https://www.conservativereview.com/horowitz-cornea-transplant-rejection-vaccine-2658229594.html?utm_source=cr-weekly

sms

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Sep 16, 2022, 5:02:31 PM9/16/22

to

On 9/16/2022 9:01 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

<snip>

> True. I should fund my efforts through a Kickstarter campaign or
> simply extort money from my victims. Tom has hinted that he has
> millions to fund his bicycle stable, while Andre seems to have lived a
> rather opulent lifestyle. Anyone who can afford a Rohloff gear hub
> must be wealthy. They should have some surplus money available to
> fund my decadent and lavish lifestyle. Thanks for the suggestion.

<snip>

Wealthy cyclists have a Kindernay XIV internal hub. Greater range and
lower weight than a Rohloff Speedhub 500/14. Rohloff Speedhubs are a
poor man's internal hub.

Tom lost most of his money in Obama's economic boom, thanks to an
incompetent financial advisor that advised him to short-sell
skyrocketing stocks.

Neither will fund your kickstarter.

sms

unread,

Sep 16, 2022, 5:06:30 PM9/16/22

to

On 9/16/2022 12:59 PM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
> Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 11:17:34 AM UTC-4, sms wrote:
>>> On 9/15/2022 4:49 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>> Also, Andre Jute has declared that:
>>>> "I follow Tom because he's smarter and better informed from much wider
>>>> experience than you clowns. Tom's been proved riotously right about
>>>> the pandemic, and with him me."
>
> So what's your issue with that, Jeff?

Uh, because Andre and Tom have been proven wrong on just about
everything they've posted about the pandemic.

Andre Jute

unread,

Sep 16, 2022, 5:22:27 PM9/16/22

to

On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 4:29:57 PM UTC+1, frkr...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Jeff is not _making_ Tom & Andre look foolish. They do that voluntarily.
>

Why, thank you, Franki-boy. I always wanted to be a standup comedian. Unfortunately I wasn't common enough.

>
> And Jeff is certainly allowed to choose his hobbies. After all, there's much more to life
> than making money. I, for one, am grateful for Jeff's posts.
>

Trying to build up your little street corner gang again, eh, Franki-boy?
>
> - Frank Krygowski
Retired welding instructor, stupid enough to fuck with a professional wordsmith in a polemicist's dream medium.
>
Yup, that describes Franki-boy.
>
Unsigned out of contempt for a wannabe street corner bully, in a suburb so dull, 6pm every day they roll up the sidewalks.
>
PS. You're in my thread, Franki-boy. Piss off.
>

Jeff Liebermann

unread,

Sep 16, 2022, 5:28:59 PM9/16/22

to

On Fri, 16 Sep 2022 21:59:08 +0200, Sepp Ruf <inq...@Safe-mail.net>
wrote:

>Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 11:17:34 AM UTC-4, sms wrote:
>>> On 9/15/2022 4:49 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>> Also, Andre Jute has declared that:
>>>> "I follow Tom because he's smarter and better informed from much wider
>>>> experience than you clowns. Tom's been proved riotously right about
>>>> the pandemic, and with him me."
>
>So what's your issue with that, Jeff?

Tom has been fairly close to 100% wrong on his "amazing facts". His
recent claim that vaccinations cause a loss of immunity is good
example. Also, his chronic use of VAERS data to prove some point even
though the CDC indicates that crowd sourced data can't be used to
establish cause and effect. I'm very much in a hurry right now but
will happily provide examples with URL's when I have time (probably
Sunday).

>>>> When Tom provides the missing URL and I am able to read the original
>>>> research report, I might be able to claim that both Tom and Andre are
>>>> wrong. For the gamblers among the readers, there's a possibility that
>>>> Tom's unspecified source may actually be correct.
>
>Come on, you didn't even respond, if only to debunk,

Respond to what? Tom's claim(s) or yours? I sometimes ignore Tom's
"amazing facts" simply because of lack of time. It might take Tom 10
minutes to fabricate an amazing fact. It might take me hours to find
the original sources and provide a readable fact check report. Try
fact checking just one of Tom's "amazing facts" and you'll soon see
what's involved.

>to a very clear,
>simple graph I had suggested you look up: a worrying pattern in
>Israel's data on JHU showing death numbers repeatedly increasing _after_
>the kickoffs of their national vaccination campaigns.

I saw that. You tacked the URL pointing a two graphs showing
something very disturbing. I was very interested in the graphs. Just
one problem. There was no sources or any additional information. I
had meant to ask you for your sources, but either forgot or became
busy with something else. Could I trouble you for the link again,
this time including the URL?

>Now you want to process a Science text?

Well, yes. I've done it before and can do it again. It's not
necessary to understand everything in such reports. I'm interested in
the methodology used, who was involved in preparing the report, who
funded the report, was it peer reviewed, are the statistics correct,
references to past research, and similar items which might discount
the validity of the report and its claims. So far, I've spent about
15 minutes digging through it and at first glance can find nothing
wrong. I've seen other reports, which provide amazing conclusions,
only to discover that the report was based on a statistical sample of
5 patients. That's the kind of junk I'm looking for. If I manage to
pickup some understanding during the process, all for the better.

>You are the one triple pfizer-shot, so why are
>you not up to date on the OAS / priming topics? This article is from June:
><https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abq1841>

4 Pfizer shots. 2 vaccines and 2 booster shots. I'm considering a
3rd booster. I read a summary of that article about 3 months ago.
Since I'm not paranoid about vaccine side effects, I didn't read any
further than the summary.

>>> Jeff, have you considered using all the time that you spend making fun
>>> of Tom's and Andre's lies in a more productive way? Maybe reopen your
>>> business in Santa Cruz so then at least you can earn money for your
>>> time. AFAIK, you're not making any money by making Tom & Andre look
>>> foolish.
>
>I doubt Jeff's efforts are even benefitting his health.

Indirectly, they have. I've been doing all my manual labor instead of
hiring people. I got a surprise yesterday. The weather forecast
predicts rain on Saturday night. Usually, the first rain is in late
October in this area (Santa Cruz, CA). This time, it's a month early.
So, I get to do a months yard work in 2 days. I've been working 30
minutes and resting 15 minutes. I spend the resting time on the
computer, mostly so I'm not tempted to fall asleep. I'm tired, but
feeling quite well. That wasn't the case when I was having chest
pains (angina) and assorted aches and pains. Staying home has
definitely benefited my health.

>> Jeff is not _making_ Tom & Andre look foolish.
>
>Why should we trust your judgment, Frank? See, we know for a fact that
>your brain twists Tom and Andre's image by 180 degrees!

I won't try to answer for Frank.

>I did not keep track, of course, but since you became a collage
>professor, and a bicycle club officer, have you ever admitted, at least
>once, to looking foolish as an adult, except for intentional reasonsit
>intentionally, especially for virtuous causes?

Maybe I should answer for Frank. The secret to success is to learn
how to survive failure. Everyone makes mistakes. I made a few really
bad mistakes recently. I survived. Now, look at Tom and possibly
Andre. They also make mistakes, lots of mistakes, but did they
survive? Nope. They both try to bury their mistakes hoping that
nobody will remember. Both are masters at bluster (loud, aggressive,
or indignant talk with little effect). If you're looking for
perfection or a roll model, you came to the wrong place.

>Oh, what again was the original topic? Pulled-pfizerpork pasta and
>calamari structures, wasn't it:
><https://www.rintrah.nl/why-are-embalmers-finding-fiber-clots-in-blood-vessels-of-the-deceased/>

Nice article. I like the blog owners mantra:
"The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely
free that your very existence is an act of rebellion."
I haven't had time to track down the source of the
"Renal Failure - Mortality Deviation from Trend 2018 - 2022"
Please read that title carefully. Notice that it's not the actual
incidence of renal failure, but rather the deviation from an
unspecified normal trend. The source is "The Ethical Skeptic" which
I'll chase down later.

Reminder: 2 graphs from Israel with the source URL.

Frank Krygowski

unread,

Sep 16, 2022, 5:30:04 PM9/16/22

to

On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 4:36:05 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
>
> There are some eyebrow-raising reports on various as yet
> inexplicable anomalies:
>
> https://www.conservativereview.com/horowitz-cornea-transplant-rejection-vaccine-2658229594.html?utm_source=cr-weekly

It seems right wing eyebrows are easily raised by a couple dozen transplant complications
that may or may not have been linked to COVID. Oddly, those eyebrows don't even twitch
at a million American deaths directly caused by COVID.

But those skeptical of the vaccine should be mercilessly attacking the president who bragged
about fast tracking its development. Who was that guy? Why isn't he being condemned for that?

- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski

unread,

Sep 16, 2022, 5:38:29 PM9/16/22

to

AMuzi

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Sep 16, 2022, 6:55:24 PM9/16/22

to

+1
My sentiments exactly.

AMuzi

unread,

Sep 16, 2022, 6:56:50 PM9/16/22

to

That's an easy question.
CDC.
Do I get a prize?

Jeff Liebermann

unread,

Sep 16, 2022, 7:12:23 PM9/16/22

to

On Fri, 16 Sep 2022 15:22:29 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>I spent my life working on medical projects.

Out of 13 jobs on your resume, I count 5 that had something to do with
bio-medical electronics firmware. Not quite 100% but actually better
than most:
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-kunich-22012/details/experience/>
Perhaps you should rephrase that to:
"I spent 38% of my working life working on firmware for medical
devices".

>Frank and the rest have spent no time at all. Who is more likely to have disinformation?

The lack of medical project experience eliminates almost everyone who
posts in RBT leaving you as the sole authority.

ritzann...@gmail.com

unread,

Sep 16, 2022, 7:46:48 PM9/16/22

to

On Friday, September 16, 2022 at 4:16:26 AM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Sep 2022 00:35:39 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Thursday, September 15, 2022 at 8:02:43 PM UTC-5, John B. wrote:
> >> On Thu, 15 Sep 2022 16:49:41 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >On Fri, 16 Sep 2022 05:44:33 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
> >> >wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>On Thu, 15 Sep 2022 11:41:45 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
> >> >>wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>>On Thu, 15 Sep 2022 07:46:58 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> >> >>><cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>>The latest issue of Cell has a study done by a VERY large group
> >> >>>>of scientists and it says that if you have taken the vaccine it
> >> >>>>appears to have "trained" your immune system to not recognize
> >> >>>>later mutations of the SARS-Cov-2 virus.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>It's been a while since I've read your "amazing facts". Do you have a
> >> >>>link to the study so I can read what the study says instead of reading
> >> >>>your interpretation? Start here:
> >> >>><https://www.cell.com>
> >> >>>No, it's not my job to find links to YOUR claims.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>>It is nice to know that the stupid six who immediately ran down
> >> >>>>and got vaccinated to spite me for telling them that the
> >> >>>>disease was too minor to worry about vaccinations.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>Was it you who proclaimed that Covid-19 was no worse than the flu? If
> >> >>>it was, then the mutations should also be no worse than the flu.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>>So now the non-vaxxers will catch each new mutation of the
> >> >>>>SARS virus until their immune system recognizes it and it is
> >> >>>>no longer a threat and those who got the vaccines will grow
> >> >>>>more and more ill with each mutation until it kills them.
> >> >>>>I'm sure that Liebermann will be the first to go since he has
> >> >>>>spent an entire life without living anyway.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>I just got a bunch of emails from various local pharmacies offering
> >> >>>the booster shots that include the latest variants.
> >> >>><https://www.riteaid.com/covid-19/third-dose>
> >> >>>Looks like the latest variants are now almost 100% of the current
> >> >>>infections:
> >> >>><https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#variant-proportions>
> >> >>>Yeah, a booster that includes these might be a good idea.
> >> >
> >> >>But Jeff.... you are talking to a bloke who was so "dumb" that he was
> >> >>unable to get through high school and who now, apparently due to a
> >> >>vivid imagination, or perhaps falling off his bicycle, has,
> >> >>miraculously become an expert in the medical field.
> >> >
> >> >I try not to criticize the messenger and prefer to concentrate on the
> >> >claims and information. I once made that mistake when AT&T announce
> >> >OFDM (orthogonal frequency division multiplex) which I immediately
> >> >declared to be bogus and impossible. Today OFDM is used in all Wi-Fi
> >> >devices and most cell phones. It was a very embarrassing lesson that
> >> >I don't want to repeat. I'll give Tom the benefit of the doubt and
> >> >assume (until proven otherwise) that he had found a research article
> >> >that claims something that I find difficult to believe.

> >> >
> >> >Also, Andre Jute has declared that:
> >> >"I follow Tom because he's smarter and better informed from much wider
> >> >experience than you clowns. Tom's been proved riotously right about
> >> >the pandemic, and with him me."
> >> >

> >> >When Tom provides the missing URL and I am able to read the original
> >> >research report, I might be able to claim that both Tom and Andre are

> >> >wrong. For the gamblers among the readers, there's a possibility that

> >> >Tom's unspecified source may actually be correct.

> >> But most successful gamblers bet on the side that is most likely to be
> >> right. Where the odds are with them, in other words. So yes there is a
> >> possibility that Tommy may be correct... after all he has been correct
> >> at least 3 times in the past 17 years, but the odds aren't with him.
> >> 17 years is 6205 days, so assuming 1 post daily the odds are 6205/3 =
> >> 1 in 2,068. If it is a roulette wheel and you win 1 in 2,068 spins you
> >> will go home broke.
> >> --
> >> Cheers,
> >>
> >> John B.
> >
> >John, an 80-1 long shot won the Kentucky Derby this year.
> I hate to tell you but an 80-1 shot is somewhat different then one
> chance in 2,068 (:-)
>
> --
> Cheers,
>
> John B.

But you mentioned roulette wheels. Roulette wheels have 37 or 38 slots for the ball. Twice as good as the Kentucky Derby winner. And 6 times better than Tommy being right.

pH

unread,

Sep 16, 2022, 7:57:29 PM9/16/22

to

And Dr. John Campbell has been following the data on the seemingly "excess
deaths" as well. (Apologies for non-bicycle topic.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WZHtxGF4Cc

I've recently found him and he seems to be quite dis-passionate and data
driven.

pH in Aptos

ritzann...@gmail.com

unread,

Sep 16, 2022, 8:04:03 PM9/16/22

to

Tommy, you CLAIM to work on medical projects. But the difference between your claims and truth is vast. As for medical, I have a long history with a medical project. And Jeff seems to have had a decade or two of experience with medical projects. As for disinformation, there are a number of Trumpers running around claiming he is president. Despite Biden getting 7 MILLION more votes than Trump.

Jeff Liebermann

unread,

Sep 16, 2022, 8:50:20 PM9/16/22

to

On Fri, 16 Sep 2022 17:04:01 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
<ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> I spent my life working on medical projects. Frank and the rest have spent no time at all. Who is more likely to have disinformation?

>Tommy, you CLAIM to work on medical projects. But the difference between your claims and truth is vast. As for medical, I have a long history with a medical project. And Jeff seems to have had a decade or two of experience with medical projects.

Nope. My medical experience was mostly keeping medical office and
hospital small computers running, not treating patients. I do best
working on things, not people.

What I've done:
- Design 2way land mobile radios and accessories.
- Design marine radios and various other RF related projects.
- HF (high frequency) transceivers and power amplifiers.
- Some microwave, datacomm, SCADA, and RF ATE (automatic test
equipment).
- Computer repair, PC system integration, damage control.
- RF and analog design consulting. Mostly fixing someone else's
mistakes. Fix it, but don't change anything.
- At various times hi-fi repair, restaurant mgr, tire store worker,
sewing machine mechanic, electrician, plumber, auto electric mechanic,
student teacher, print shop owner, whatever else I forgot, etc.
- There was some travel and work which I don't want to discuss.
- Currently chainsaw repair, carburetor rebuilds, various motorized
yard tools repaired.

Resume of sorts:
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-liebermann-151823/>

One of my computer repair customers was the local hospital and a large
medical office. While didn't practice medicine, I got plenty of
experience with how such a medical office functions. What little I
know about medicine was accumulated by reading and first hand
experience as a patient. I also had a ladyfriend who did statistics
for clinical trials. That's not the best way to learn how clinical
trials work, but it was interesting.

>As for disinformation, there are a number of Trumpers running around claiming he is president. Despite Biden getting 7 MILLION more votes than Trump.

John B.

unread,

Sep 16, 2022, 9:07:27 PM9/16/22

to

On Fri, 16 Sep 2022 17:04:01 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"

See there? You don't know nothing. Them there umpteen million votes
don't count. Would the Golden Gnome tell a lie? Why you'd be insane to
even think it. See it them there courts was wrong.

Just wait. As soon as we can get him elected again and they pass the
"Enabling Act" why everything will be all right.
--
Cheers,

John B.

John B.

unread,

Sep 16, 2022, 9:36:53 PM9/16/22

to

On Fri, 16 Sep 2022 16:46:46 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"

The best odds on a roulette wheel amounts to something like
1-1/8 to 1 against the player on a European wheel and 1-1/9 to 1
against on a U.S. wheel.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roulette#Bet_odds_table
Still a bit different then 2068 against (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

AMuzi

unread,

Sep 16, 2022, 10:12:59 PM9/16/22

to

Here in USA it's 38 with two (green) zeros so even if you
make the 'safe' bet (red, or black) the House still has an
edge. Entertaining I suppose if arithmetic isn't in your
skill set.

John B.

unread,

Sep 16, 2022, 10:25:00 PM9/16/22

to

Out of curiosity I just googled the phrase"the house always wins" and
got 57 million replies. Apparently a LOT of people don't know what the
term means (:-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

Frank Krygowski

unread,

unread,

Sep 17, 2022, 10:52:08 AM9/17/22

to

On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 07:32:08 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich

..and KJP says nobody is just walking across the border.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/karine-jean-pierre-slammed-denying-anyone-walks-over-border-can-we-get-fact-check-one

If that were true, where did the folks that ended up in Martha's
vinyard come from.

Frank Krygowski

unread,

Sep 17, 2022, 10:57:56 AM9/17/22

to

On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 8:06:35 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
> On 9/16/2022 9:28 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >
> > But there's a long track record of absolute nonsense from virus skeptics - everything from "Only
> > a few cases, nothing to worry about" to "It's no worse than an ordinary flu" to "You can cure it
> > with Vitamin D ... or horse medicine ... or bleach ... " to "It kills only the elderly" to "Trump should
> > get awards for the vaccine" to "The vaccine is deadly" to "The Chinese did this on purpose" to
> > "Fauci invented this entire thing to get rich" ...
> >
> > The pandemic seems to be finally waning, but it is and was real, despite claims to the contrary.
> > I have many friends that suffered badly, and a couple that nearly died. And despite Tom's
> > ridiculous fantasies, over a million Americans did die.
> >
> > Given all the silliness spouted by (mostly) right wingers with no medical training, I'm not willing to
> > give much credence to every new, breathless, hand wringing, outraged report about a potential medical
> > problem for a couple dozen people.
> >
> > - Frank Krygowski
> >
> Are you trying to add to it?
>
> Vitamin D deficiency does correlate with higher death rate
> in elderly with the virus.

Perhaps so, I haven't looked. But at least one screed I was directed to claimed that
vitamin D was _the_ cure for Covid, and implied that nothing else was ever needed.

> Neither Hydrochloroquine nor Ivermectin are 'horse
> medicine'. Both are widespread standard pharmaceuticals
> (Ivermectin a Nobel winning creation). But under
> 'disinformation' add the FDA's ridiculous ban such that
> girlfriend's daughter, who has been prescribed
> Hydrochloroquine for years to treat lupus symptoms, was
> denied her usual refill under an FDA emergency order. WTF?

Sorry about your girlfriend's daughter. But as with other compounds, those two were
latched onto by dopes who disbelieved anything said by state or national level medical
researchers, yet believed everything said by right wing talking heads.

I was at a friends house with a bunch of cyclists last year. Various people mentioned in very
casual conversation when and where they had gotten vaccinated. One guy was silent until
someone asked "How about you?" He growled "I'm not getting vaccinated." See, he didn't
"know what's in that vaccine." (Hell, it could have been microchips!)

Maybe a month later, his girlfriend happened to mention that he had been getting treated with
ivermectin. Um... as if he knew what's in _that_ stuff?

> The 'bleach' comment was actual blatant disinformation from
> a TeeVee program. The President said nothing of the sort.

OK, he talked about injecting a "disinfectant," among other things that horrified his
medical consultants. Don't say that's "nothing of the sort."
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/23/trump-bleach-one-year-484399
And the "teevee" program is a presidential press conference. Were we supposed to
ignore what Trump was saying in press conferences?

- Frank Krygowski

Tom Kunich

unread,

Sep 17, 2022, 10:59:26 AM9/17/22

to

And why did they call out the military to get rid of this awful threat?

unread,

Sep 17, 2022, 12:28:37 PM9/17/22

to

On Fri, 16 Sep 2022 15:26:24 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
<fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>I always thought Jeff more than a little naive, perhaps even simple. The Jews I knew in LA, where he grew up, were razor-sharp. Admittedly, they were in the film and advertising industries, which eat their own children, but still, one expects Sammy to run a little faster than to make an admission that grossly unprincipled in public.

I thought you didn't want me commenting in "your" threads? You
initiated this non-cycling thread, and now you're waving bait at me
attempting to get my attention. Are you ready to allow comments in
"your" threads? If not, I'll continue to ignore you (per your request
to stay out of "your" threads).

You did even better when I stupidly agreed to provide you with an
"executive summary" of one of my long and detailed rants which
classified you in the same categories as Tom. So, I did and provided
you with a very short and minimal list of accusations. You replied
with a detailed item by item rebuttal of all my points. I haven't
checked but I think it's size may have approached the size of my
original rant, which incidentally also answered most of the questions
you proposed had you bothered to read it. I won't make that mistake
again.

So, are you still insisting that I find your 30,000 writers forum, or
are you ready to disclose its name and URL? I don't really want to
join the forum, but I am interested in determining if there really are
30,000 members. If I give up and admit that I was unable to find your
writers group, will you then disclose its name and URL?

>Another thread the Krygowski Scum have ruined.

Nope. "Your" thread was ruined on arrival. Let me know when you're
ready to accept comments in "your" threads.

Catrike Rider

unread,

Sep 17, 2022, 1:46:00 PM9/17/22

to

On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 09:28:31 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 16 Sep 2022 15:26:24 -0700 (PDT), Andre Jute
><fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>I always thought Jeff more than a little naive, perhaps even simple. The Jews I knew in LA, where he grew up, were razor-sharp. Admittedly, they were in the film and advertising industries, which eat their own children, but still, one expects Sammy to run a little faster than to make an admission that grossly unprincipled in public.
>
>I thought you didn't want me commenting in "your" threads? You
>initiated this non-cycling thread, and now you're waving bait at me
>attempting to get my attention. Are you ready to allow comments in
>"your" threads? If not, I'll continue to ignore you (per your request
>to stay out of "your" threads).
>
>You did even better when I stupidly agreed to provide you with an
>"executive summary" of one of my long and detailed rants which
>classified you in the same categories as Tom. So, I did and provided
>you with a very short and minimal list of accusations. You replied
>with a detailed item by item rebuttal of all my points. I haven't
>checked but I think it's size may have approached the size of my
>original rant, which incidentally also answered most of the questions
>you proposed had you bothered to read it. I won't make that mistake
>again.
>
>So, are you still insisting that I find your 30,000 writers forum, or
>are you ready to disclose its name and URL? I don't really want to
>join the forum, but I am interested in determining if there really are
>30,000 members. If I give up and admit that I was unable to find your
>writers group, will you then disclose its name and URL?

There's a facebook group called "writers helping writers" which
someone suggest I should join years ago. I told her that I wasn't
much of a joiner. I just checked and they boast:
"286,000 members (as of March 2021)"
https://thewritelife.com/facebook-groups-for-writers/#4_Writers_Helping_Writers

What a frikken free for all that must be.

AMuzi

unread,

Sep 17, 2022, 1:49:53 PM9/17/22

to

You misremembered that exchange.
Ms Blix at a press conference said that disinfectants were
useful to kill the virus. The President said perhaps we
might pursue that.

Regarding anti-inflammatory pharmaceuticals, I linked this
when it was current but you forgot:

https://nypost.com/2020/04/07/michigan-democrat-says-hydroxychloroquine-saved-her-life/

One of many and one of several reports mentioned here.

Oh by the way, merely cheating death doesn't stop one's
troubles:
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/dems-censure-michigan-lawmaker-hydroxychloroquine

Both Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin are now considered
safe and effective. In The Dark Ages they were 'horse
medicine' but after 20 January 2021 The Science suddenly
changed. Make of that what you will. Because Science!

Andre Jute

unread,

Sep 17, 2022, 1:52:33 PM9/17/22

to

On Saturday, September 17, 2022 at 12:57:29 AM UTC+1, pH wrote:
> On 2022-09-16, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> > On 9/16/2022 2:59 PM, Sepp Ruf wrote:

> pH in Aptos
>
Don't apologise! In an airborne pandemic, every bit of dispassionate information is valuable to cyclists, who process a lot of air. I've run into Dr Campbell before. He's worth the time. Thanks for the link. --- AJ
>

Andre Jute

unread,

Sep 17, 2022, 2:24:53 PM9/17/22

to

The problem with politicised science is that sick people appear to have worse odds of getting the medically right medicine than at the roulette wheel in Las Vegas, a mug's game. There is only one game offered in Vegas in which one can win consistently, by playing only the odds. -- AJ (who was run out of Vegas for the "crime" of card counting and winning less than eight grand in about three-quarters of an hour).
>

Tom Kunich

unread,

Sep 17, 2022, 2:34:01 PM9/17/22

to

Fracis tells us that he had friends that ALMOST died. I doubt that because who could possibly be friends with an egomaniac? But from these supposed friends almost dying he has generated real deaths despite my showing real CDC statistics showing otherwise. Once a fool, always a fool.

Jeff Liebermann

unread,

Sep 17, 2022, 3:15:38 PM9/17/22

to

On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 13:45:54 -0400, Catrike Rider
<sol...@drafting.not> wrote:

>On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 09:28:31 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
>wrote:

>>So, are you still insisting that I find your 30,000 writers forum, or
>>are you ready to disclose its name and URL? I don't really want to
>>join the forum, but I am interested in determining if there really are
>>30,000 members. If I give up and admit that I was unable to find your
>>writers group, will you then disclose its name and URL?

>There's a facebook group called "writers helping writers" which
>someone suggest I should join years ago. I told her that I wasn't
>much of a joiner. I just checked and they boast:
>"286,000 members (as of March 2021)"
>https://thewritelife.com/facebook-groups-for-writers/#4_Writers_Helping_Writers
>
>What a frikken free for all that must be.

Thanks, but I'm not looking for a large writers group. I'm looking
for a specific writers group that is managed by Andre (or his
assistant) with approximately 30,000 members:
As of Dec 16, 2021:
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/js-qqHYeuWw/m/nPyubE7uCgAJ>
"My assistant has now worked out how to get the actual number of
members of my writers' group, which turns out at 1905 GMT on Thursday
16 December to be 28,695 members, near enough the "rising 30K" or
whatever I told you. I wouldn't want to lie even to immoral scum like
you."

Andre mentioned on Sept 14, 2022 that:
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/unBY53o3MPg/m/gKpBsypsAQAJ>
"You're too dumb to find it. As of today it has 30,279 members and
also today I turned down 234 requests for membership from unqualified
applicants, 72 in just the last tranche".

That's 1584 members added in 273 days or 5.8 members added per day and
about 234 requests rejected, assuming the usual spam had been
previously removed. His phrase "I turned down" implies that Andre
personally approves each request for membership. That's quite a work
load looking at 240 requests for membership per day. At 1 minute per
request, that's 4 hrs of reading requests (ignoring any time spent
researching an applicants background and political affiliation).

Jeff Liebermann

unread,

Sep 17, 2022, 6:13:04 PM9/17/22

to

On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 12:49:45 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>Both Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin are now considered
>safe and effective.

Considered safe by whom? There were emergency approvals for
hydroxychloroquine at the beginning of the pandemic, but nothing
resembling an FDA approval has surfaced since then. Perhaps in
clinical trials, but not for general consumption.

"FDA cautions against use of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine for
COVID-19 outside of the hospital setting or a clinical trial due to
risk of heart rhythm problems" (Jan 12, 2022)
<https://www.fda.gov/drugs/fda-drug-safety-podcasts/fda-cautions-against-use-hydroxychloroquine-or-chloroquine-covid-19-outside-hospital-setting-or>
"Hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine have not been shown to be safe and
effective for treating or preventing COVID-19."

"Update: FDA Revokes Emergency Use Authorization for Chloroquine and
Hydroxychloroquine" (June 15, 2020)
<https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-revokes-emergency-use-authorization-chloroquine-and>

"Ivermectin Products are Not Approved by FDA to Prevent or Treat
COVID-19" (Feb 1, 2022)
<https://emergency.cdc.gov/newsletters/coca/020122.htm>
"The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has not authorized or
approved using ivermectin to prevent or treat COVID-19 in humans and
has cautioned about the potential risks of using ivermectin for
COVID-19."

Andre Jute

unread,

Science by anecdote? My grandmother thought tomato soup cured her flu. Meanwhile,
https://www.science.org/content/article/three-big-studies-dim-hopes-hydroxychloroquine-can-treat-or-prevent-covid-19

> Both Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin are now considered
> safe and effective. In The Dark Ages they were 'horse
> medicine' but after 20 January 2021 The Science suddenly
> changed. Make of that what you will. Because Science!

Safe and effective against what, exactly? The Mayo Clinic seems to have other ideas about Covid.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/expert-answers/coronavirus-drugs/faq-20485627

Where did you get your information?

- Frank Krygowski

John B.

unread,

Sep 17, 2022, 10:23:07 PM9/17/22

to

On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 15:12:57 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

I can give you some personal data about chloroquine, or more
accurately "chloroquine-primaquine" as when I was in Vietnam and later
in West Papua, Indonesia, we were instructed to take one tablet weekly
to prevent malaria. It gives you rather severe diarrhea, to the extent
that crapping in your pants was not uncommon, along with the diarrhea
there were stomach cramps and a feeling of general malaise for a day
or so after taking the weekly tablet.

It bothered me so severely that I went to the Medics hoping I could
get some sort of anti-malaria med's that didn't bother me so much.
Maybe Quinine?

The doctor told me that the chloroquine-primaquine was the only thing
available, but as I was leaving the NCO in charge of the clinic said,
"You know there have been no reported cases of malaria in this area",
so I threw the pills away and never took them again (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

Catrike Rider

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Sep 18, 2022, 6:17:04 AM9/18/22

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At least the leftist media reported that DeSantis said that.....

>Seems to me Gov Greg Abbott of Texas rounded up the immigrants at the Texas border.

Didn't it seem to you that the small border towns did not have
facilities for hundreds of thousands of new people?

> Trucked them up to San Antonio.

Where facilities were already overloaded. You do realize that millions
of illegals have come across our southern border in the last two
years? It's the feds responsibility to protect our border, yet it's
the Texan's responsibility to take care of them?

> Which is NOT anywhere near the Rio Grande border with Mexico. Then gave them to DeSantis somehow. And then the Florida governor paid for the Venezuelans to be flown from San Antonio TEXAS, not Florida, to Martha's Vineyard Massachusetts.

How exactly did he "give" them to DeSantis. Were they his to give?

>Seems to me the dirty lying cheating scum Republican governors of Texas and Florida were engaging in human trafficking. A Federal crime. Republicans seem to love that human trafficking. There is that young one in Florida trafficking a minor girl across state lines for sex.

So, when Biden and company transported illegals to cities all over the
country for a year and a half, were they committing a federal crime,
too? You do know that was happening, no?

https://news.yahoo.com/biden-administration-quietly-flies-illegal-140450591.html

Catrike Rider

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Sep 18, 2022, 6:18:31 AM9/18/22

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I'd bet on that...

sms

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Sep 18, 2022, 8:52:26 AM9/18/22

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On 9/17/2022 3:12 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Sep 2022 12:49:45 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> Both Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin are now considered
>> safe and effective.
>
> Considered safe by whom?

No, "considered effective for what?"

Ivermectin is effective for the treatment of parasites in humans and
animals but has no effect on Covid-19. "Randomized clinical trials have
repeatedly found that ivermectin does not benefit COVID-19 patients. The
National Institutes of Health recommends against its use for COVID-19.
Ivermectin enthusiasts continue to falsely claim the contrary."

Hydroxychloroquine is used for the prevention and treatment of malaria,
but has no effect on Covid-19: "The use of hydroxychloroquine in
randomized trials for the treatment of hospitalized patients with
COVID-19 has not been shown to have a benefit in reducing death. In
addition, concerns exist over the benefit of the drug compared to its
safety risk, especially with regard to abnormal heart rhythms."

The problem is low-information, right-wing Trumpers desperately trying
to defend Trump's lies.

Everyone thought by 2020 we'd have flying cars. Instead we have poison
centers across the country warning people not to drink bleach to cure
Covid, after the president suggested that injecting disinfectant be
looked into as a cure for Covid. Or exposing yourself to massive
quantities of UV.

Tom Kunich

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Sep 18, 2022, 9:04:39 AM9/18/22

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Seems to me we have to find where Russell lives and bus ten or twenty thousand illegals into his neighborhood and show him what it is actually like. His comments show that he has no mental connection to reality, Well, he needs the clearest form of reality check possible. People being murdered in their own beds by bullets coming through the walls from drug gang shootouts.

Tom Kunich

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Sep 18, 2022, 9:11:28 AM9/18/22

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Frank will say absolutely anything and he doesn't care if it is true or not. Apparently being told that bleach can be used to clean surfaces is identical to suggesting people drink it. And you'll notice that low life SOB didn't quote the surrounding statements that would have given it clarity. This is yet another demonstration of how the left is losing it as they see the end of their tyranny approaching.

sms

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Sep 18, 2022, 9:26:56 AM9/18/22

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On 9/17/2022 7:10 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:

<snip>

> Seems to me the dirty lying cheating scum Republican governors of Texas and Florida were engaging in human trafficking. A Federal crime. Republicans seem to love that human trafficking. There is that young one in Florida trafficking a minor girl across state lines for sex.

He tried to get a preemptive pardon from Trump for that.

Tom Kunich

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Sep 18, 2022, 9:34:29 AM9/18/22

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On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 3:18:31 AM UTC-7, Catrike Rider wrote:

Looking at what Trump actually said about possible treatments he was suggesting what we did know at the time. WE KNEW that Ivermectin stopped covid-19 in laboratory tests. Later tests showed that the dosages would be too high to be tolerated. We also knew that UV would kill the virus so that sunlight and open air was safe and indoor activity without UV wasn't. The left cannot stop themselves from lying in a continuous string about anything and everything Donald Trump because they see the end of their police state coming and that will b e the end of them. But the lying left and the end of the line RINO's think that a President should not be injecting hope into a case that Fauci and the WHO had built into another Smallpox Pandemic. In FACT Smallpox was beaten by a Ukrainian health minister.

I will wait for the son of a bitch Liebermann to tell everyone that smallpox vaccine was invented by Dr. Edward Jenner because he is the most stupid person on this Earth. Smallpox was defeated LONG before the vaccine was developed. Come on Liebermann, prove me wrong. I'll be waiting for you to start slowing getting worse and worse covid infections since you have yourself shot full of vaccines.

Catrike Rider

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Sep 18, 2022, 9:52:43 AM9/18/22

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On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 06:26:52 -0700, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

According to <LOL> "sources familiar with the testimony," anyway.

sms

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Sep 18, 2022, 9:58:53 AM9/18/22

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On 9/17/2022 6:02 PM, John B. wrote:

<snip>

> Well, contrary to all that is said "Dr. John Lorimer Campbell is not a
> medical doctor at all. He has a Ph.D. in nursing education and "the
> doctorate was awarded in 2013 for work on developing teaching methods"

LOL, reminds me of some PhD's who insist on always being called "doctor."

Even the non-MD doctors, that have an actual doctorate related to
practicing some sort of medical care, often insist that you NOT call
them "doctor." When my niece got her DPT (Doctor of Physical Therapy)
degree I called her "doctor ch*#" and she said "don't call me doctor!"

AMuzi

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Sep 18, 2022, 10:01:41 AM9/18/22

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> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zicGxU5MfwE
> Trump said disinfectant, not bleach. But some, most, folks think of disinfectant and bleach as interchangeable. Kind of like soap and a bar of cleanser. Most folks would say they mean the same.
>

What is chemotherapy for cancer?

It was in response to Dr Blix' comment on disinfectants.
Asking whether some avenue ought to be pursued is not the
same as telling people to 'drink bleach'.

Catrike Rider

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Sep 18, 2022, 10:03:46 AM9/18/22

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On Sun, 18 Sep 2022 06:58:48 -0700, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

But doesn't "doctor" (small d) Jill Biden insist on being called
"Doctor?" (Large D)

AMuzi

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Sep 18, 2022, 10:12:01 AM9/18/22

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Have you been without newspapers all year? Your Federal
Government has been flying illegals all over the country
since last September:

https://yonkerstimes.com/immigrant-flights-into-westchester-airport-finding-the-truth/

https://nypost.com/2022/07/20/mayor-adams-wake-up-on-migrant-flights/

This is not all done on one side of our political divides:

https://ijr.com/accepting-busloads-migrants-chicago-mayor-quietly-ships/

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/democrats-in-el-paso-are-also-busing-migrants-to-nyc/ar-AA11WO2O

Tom Kunich

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Sep 18, 2022, 10:22:02 AM9/18/22

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Funny, my middle stepdaughter is about to finish her DPT and all of her teachers with that degree consider themselves doctors. When I had to have physical therapy the head of the unit was referred to by all of his employees as Dr. My partner in the search for the cause of AIDS was a Dr. of Chemistry and was ALWAYS referred to as Dr. McCown by everyone but his friends.

Tom Kunich

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Sep 18, 2022, 10:25:24 AM9/18/22

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You've got this all wrong Andrew - then the fascists do it, it is diversity but if the Republicans do it, it is human trafficking.

AMuzi

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Sep 18, 2022, 10:31:58 AM9/18/22

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Read her thesis. (not the only third-rate piece which
'earned' a doctorate for a Famous Person)