Laptop/Hard Drive: Carrying In Pannier Bag?

[(PeteCresswell)]

Does anybody have experience carrying a laptop computer with hard drive
in a rear-luggage-rack-mounted pannier bag?

My kneejerk reaction is that it needs tb carried in a messenger bag or
back pack to isolate it from road shock.

OTOH, it seems like there's some give when something's in a fabric
pannier bag.

Does anybody have a history of carrying a laptop in a pannier bag
without damage?
--
Pete Cresswell

[Rob Lindauer]

I carry my laptop in an Ortleib office panier bag. I do put the laptop
in a sleeve, and the sleeve in the bag. I've never had a problem with
damage to the laptop. I suspect that the "floor" of the bag is not
rigid helps absorb shocks to some extent. -RL
--
Rob Lindauer - for my real email address, please replace "att" with "sbc"

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 24 Mar 2013 12:00:01 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid>
wrote:

>Does anybody have experience carrying a laptop computer with hard drive
>in a rear-luggage-rack-mounted pannier bag?

Not me, but some of my student customers have tried that. The newer
drives seem to last. Old machines (i.e >6 years) seem to be
problematic. The most common shock failure is not the hard disk
drive. It's soldering failure under the BGA chips, which is difficult
or impossible to fix.

>My kneejerk reaction is that it needs tb carried in a messenger bag or
>back pack to isolate it from road shock.

I recommend a common laptop bag lined with extra foam rubber. Just
about anything better than a towel wrap will help. I idea is to
prevent impact with the metal pannier frame or anything solid in the
pannier bags.

>OTOH, it seems like there's some give when something's in a fabric
>pannier bag.

I would agree if the laptop doesn't make contact with the frame or
contents, but that not what's usually inside the bags. If you can
wrap it with a padded jacket, it might work.

>Does anybody have a history of carrying a laptop in a pannier bag
>without damage?

Not me, as I mumbled, some of the local UCSC student do it on a
regular basis. I only see the broken laptops, so I don't have much
history for the successes. I can't say that any of the one's I've
seen were carried inside panniers. More likely a backpack.
Incidentally, the backpack is a problem because the bottom is not
padded. I see more cracked cases than crashed hard drives from
dropped backpacks. Add some foam padding on the bottom of the
backpack.

Think about an SSD (solid state drive). They're getting more
affordable and the speed boost is wonderful. Otherwise, make regular
image backups of your hard disk drive, so that recovery is painless.

<http://kimoechan.wordpress.com/2011/09/21/hard-disk-drive%E2%80%99s-weakness-%E2%80%93-shock-robustness-introduction/>

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Dan O]

On Mar 24, 10:59 am, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Mar 2013 12:00:01 -0400, "(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid>
> wrote:
>
> >Does anybody have experience carrying a laptop computer with hard drive
> >in a rear-luggage-rack-mounted pannier bag?
>
> Not me, but some of my student customers have tried that. The newer
> drives seem to last. Old machines (i.e >6 years) seem to be
> problematic. The most common shock failure is not the hard disk
> drive. It's soldering failure under the BGA chips, which is difficult
> or impossible to fix.
>

That's what I was going to say (had it typed even but didn't send):
If the hard drive is not running (heads parked), it's probably no more
concern than many other laptop pieces prone to breaking.

> >My kneejerk reaction is that it needs tb carried in a messenger bag or
> >back pack to isolate it from road shock.
>
> I recommend a common laptop bag lined with extra foam rubber. Just
> about anything better than a towel wrap will help. I idea is to
> prevent impact with the metal pannier frame or anything solid in the
> pannier bags.
>

Yep - isolation - like Joy's ripe tomato solution, except
appropriately damped for the load.

> >OTOH, it seems like there's some give when something's in a fabric
> >pannier bag.
>
> I would agree if the laptop doesn't make contact with the frame or
> contents, but that not what's usually inside the bags. If you can
> wrap it with a padded jacket, it might work.
>
> >Does anybody have a history of carrying a laptop in a pannier bag
> >without damage?
>
> Not me, as I mumbled, some of the local UCSC student do it on a
> regular basis. I only see the broken laptops, so I don't have much
> history for the successes. I can't say that any of the one's I've
> seen were carried inside panniers. More likely a backpack.
> Incidentally, the backpack is a problem because the bottom is not
> padded. I see more cracked cases than crashed hard drives from
> dropped backpacks. Add some foam padding on the bottom of the
> backpack.
>

I got a backpack with my ThinkPad that was specially designed to carry
a laptop, with padded compartment.

The only time I have carried a laptop on my bike was short trips (a
few miles) across town. I have a heavy (large, thick-skinned) leather
bag that I just hang off one side of the front Surly Nice Rack, with
the shoulder strap across the top platform and hooked on the far side
at rear. It rides fine that way, though I take it easy - more becuase
of the handling effects of load hanging off one side up front. The
bag is large (spacious) as noted, and the inner laptop compartment is
not especially padded, but holds the laptop securely buffered in
isolation from the outer compartments. The heavy leather also takes a
beating without transmitting froces directly.

> Think about an SSD (solid state drive). They're getting more
> affordable and the speed boost is wonderful. Otherwise, make regular
> image backups of your hard disk drive, so that recovery is painless.
>

> <http://kimoechan.wordpress.com/2011/09/21/hard-disk-drive%E2%80%99s-w...>
>

[T0m $herman]

On 3/24/2013 12:59 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> Not me, as I mumbled, some of the local UCSC student do it on a
> regular basis. I only see the broken laptops, so I don't have much
> history for the successes. I can't say that any of the one's I've
> seen were carried inside panniers. More likely a backpack.
> Incidentally, the backpack is a problem because the bottom is not
> padded. I see more cracked cases than crashed hard drives from
> dropped backpacks. Add some foam padding on the bottom of the
> backpack.

I used a backpack with an external pocket below the main pocket, and
stuffed in a rain jacket and rain pants, so there was something squishy
at the bottom.

--
T0m $herm@n

[datakoll]

NOBRAINER

backpack. check Kelty at Campmor.com and Pelican.

butbutbut in an accident where you would fly, the bike stops. a rack, see my ply rack photos with perimeter guards and a foolproof fasening sysem wins.

with a pack, look for adding a waist belt eliminating sway to a side when in extremis. rarely do we fall on our backs.

I have a Dell 9400/1705E. A pelican was looked for but that time was not available for a big screen so the 1705 went into the Kelty in bubblkepack.

[datakoll]

.......


rain in from the Gulf. Rain equals Pelican

[datakoll]

....

urack runneth over

http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/CAMOmnifindQueryCmd?storeId=226&catalogId=40000000226&langId=-1&searchKeywords=laptop&searchCategory=search&ip_state=&ip_constrain=&ip_navtype=AdvancedSearch&pageSize=24&currentPage=&ip_sortBy=&priceFilter=&catFilter=&manNameFilter=&sizeFilter=&colorFilter=&filters=Type%257EComputer%257EComputer%2520%252834%2529

[Dan O]

On Mar 24, 7:30 pm, Phil W Lee <p...@lee-family.me.uk> wrote:
> "(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid> considered Sun, 24 Mar 2013 12:00:01

> You're most unlikely to damage the hard drive of a laptop by carrying
> it on a bicycle.
> The bits around the hard drive will break long before the HDD.
> I'd be worrying about screen, keyboard, hinge, and the corners of the
> casing well ahead of any damage to the drive.
> They really aren't that delicate when they aren't actually spinning.
> Even a desktop or server HDD will stand up fine to pretty severe
> shocks as long as it's switched off (you should see what couriers do
> to disk drives in transit).
> Just make sure it is properly padded, and it'll be fine though.

Another approach / measure that didn't spring immediately to mind:

http://www.panasonic.com/business/toughbook/

... though I can tell you from experience maintaining a fleet of them
that they're not indestructible.

[thirty-six]

On 24 Mar, 16:00, "(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid> wrote:
> Does anybody have experience carrying a laptop computer with hard drive
> in a rear-luggage-rack-mounted pannier bag?
>
> My kneejerk reaction is that it needs tb carried in a messenger bag or
> back pack to isolate it from road shock.

You also want to minimise the range of thermal cycling and so carrying
on one's back will possibly be better in winter. Some sort of low
thermally-conductive bulk for temperature stability along with dense
edge padding to give vibrational "isolation" should cover most of the
problem.

>
> OTOH, it seems like there's some give when something's in a fabric
> pannier bag.
>
> Does anybody have a history of carrying a laptop in a pannier bag
> without damage?

or is it possible for any reasonable period of time? If it's
tolerable I believe that a suitably padded backpack is, for the most,
preferable.

> --
> Pete Cresswell

[datakoll]

WAL SELLS bubble pack n Scotch masking tape.

Fab a sleeve prob 2 layers thick fiitng backpack leaving a foldover lid area. Find wide velcro as dive velcro available from Seattle Fabrics eg n Scotch the velcro onto the bubble pack lid

Garbage bags are unreliably waterproof but 3 bags are waterproof if ypou inspect. Butbutbut leave a drainage area at bottom of bubblepack sleeve by elevating the computer with a non absorbant foam...any castoff ethafoam in the box ?...used ;life jackets...and pricking 3 drain out holes

IHS

[T0m $herman]

On 3/24/2013 9:30 PM, Phil W Lee wrote:
> The bits around the hard drive will break long before the HDD.
> I'd be worrying about screen, keyboard, hinge, and the corners of the
> casing well ahead of any damage to the drive.
> They really aren't that delicate when they aren't actually spinning.
> Even a desktop or server HDD will stand up fine to pretty severe
> shocks as long as it's switched off (you should see what couriers do
> to disk drives in transit).
> Just make sure it is properly padded, and it'll be fine though.

My experience is that HDD equipment is pretty tough, and not bothered by
being drug around through the mud and on the back of a stiffly sprung
flatbed trailer.

<http://www.syracuseutilities.com/_images//large_directional_bore.JPG>

--
T0m $herm@n

[datakoll]

fascinating...searching uncovers a serious depth of online gibberish..

eg !

http://www.algarcia.org/AnimationPhysics/BalanceTutorial.pdf

[James]

"Have you noticed how much easier
it is to balance on your bicycle when
it�s moving? It�s because the rotating
wheels act like a gyroscopes, causing
you tip over much more slowly."

Fail.

--
JS.

[datakoll]

EVERY bit of scrub from going off a balanced staright ahead on the tire patch's center, is energy lost...as one pannier.

I enjoy passing out the total climb ratio to the on the road knobby riders.

But I read wheels do not exhibit gyro effect...

maybe james would explain this in 25 words or less ?

[James]

Does one link count as one word?

<https://www.google.com.au/search?q=rec.bicycles.tech+gyro+balance&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a>

--
JS

[T0m $herman]

On 3/26/2013 4:03 PM, James wrote:
> On 26/03/13 23:47, datakoll wrote:
>> fascinating...searching uncovers a serious depth of online gibberish..
>>
>> eg !
>>
>> http://www.algarcia.org/AnimationPhysics/BalanceTutorial.pdf
>
> "Have you noticed how much easier
> it is to balance on your bicycle when

> it’s moving? It’s because the rotating

> wheels act like a gyroscopes, causing
> you tip over much more slowly."
>
> Fail.
>

20 kg of mass rotating at 2,500 rpm will work nicely to keep a
single-track vehicle and rider upright. Of course, this is several
orders of magnitude greater rotational momentum that a bicycle wheel
spinning at any speeds attainable on the road.

--
T0m $herm@n

[thirty-six]

On 26 Mar, 23:49, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> EVERY bit of scrub from going off a balanced staright ahead on the tire patch's center, is energy lost...as one pannier.
>
> I enjoy passing out the total climb ratio to the on the road knobby riders.
>
> But I read wheels do not exhibit gyro effect...

for cycling, it's too small to concern you.
What matters at the highest cycling speeds is what way the tyre is
pointing.

[datakoll]

........


hmmmm did Brandt run thru this area ?

the debunk gyro effect maybe in the 'falling body/light speed' area. where absolutes doahn jive.

[Ben Pfaff]

"(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid> writes:

> Does anybody have experience carrying a laptop computer with hard drive
> in a rear-luggage-rack-mounted pannier bag?

I did this regularly with a Thinkpad for years. Never any
problem. I kept the laptop in a thin padded sleeve inside cloth
panniers.

[Gregory Sutter]

On 2013-03-24, (PeteCresswell) <x...@y.Invalid> wrote:
> Does anybody have experience carrying a laptop computer with hard drive
> in a rear-luggage-rack-mounted pannier bag?
>

> Does anybody have a history of carrying a laptop in a pannier bag
> without damage?

Yes and yes. I've carried my laptop in a laptop sleeve within a
waterproof pannier hundreds of times; it has not sustained any
damage. Make sure the laptop is sleeping or off, so the hard drive
heads are parked while you're not!

Having examined a great many laptop sleeves, the one I can
wholeheartedly recommend for this purpose or any other is Tom Bihn's
very protective "Brain Cell", which suspends the laptop in a sling
within.
http://www.tombihn.com/PROD/TB0390.html

I've been recommending a variant of this product since 2005.
https://groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.bicycles.tech/TXL8IGX_U54/TL5CbqzdUd0J

Here's a story for your amusement. Once I failed to turn the pannier
latch into the "lock this bag onto the rack" position. Going 30mph
downhill, I struck a pothole and the pannier, containing the laptop
in the Brain Cell, flew off the bike and tumbleskidded down the
street. After stopping and retrieving my bag, which now had several
small holes in the bottom from asphalt friction, I continued my
commute and, upon arriving at work, found no damage to the sleeve,
laptop, hard drive, or the data contained therein. It's only one
anecdote, but from the "you had one job only" perspective: mission
accomplished.

--
Gregory S. Sutter Mostly Harmless
mailto:gsu...@zer0.org
http://zer0.org/~gsutter/

[datakoll]

TRY THE BUBBLEPACK

[landotter]

I've carried cheap little netbook for the past couple years in nothing but a neoprene sleeve. No problems. Everything on it's backed up, so if it gets squished in a fall, no big loss. All HDDs can fail without warning, even just sitting on a desk--back it up and stop worrying.

[datakoll]

....


charmed life

[Dan O]

I had to brake hard in the BMW one day with an early laptop (not real
lightweight) in bag on the front seat. The whole business
somersaulted forward across the spacious front legroom and hit the
floorboard like a big rock, but it still worked and no apparent
damage.

Like Jeff, I suppose, I've worked on many a broken laptop. I remember
the first time - already comfortable building and rebuilding desktop
and server computer hardware - that I had the nerve to tear a laptop
all the way apart. All those little pieces and I kept thinking of
cover stories (facetiously, I suppose, but I couldn't stop thinking
that way) for what was lookign like a distinct possibility that I
would never get it back together. But I did - and it even ran! :-)

Actually, I had a little portable printer under my belt by then, so
had already experienced that anxiety in it's rawest form. But the
laptop was much more expensive. So yeah I maintained a fleet of
Panasonic Toughbooks (far from the toughest model, but pretty neato
with touchscreens and everything like a decade ago) - eventually took
the worst one out of service and used it as a parts donor.

I got more experience working on several of my own laptops, and have
pretty good nerve to dive in now, but there is a judicious
consideration with laptops and they have to be in a pretty bad way
such that the "nothing to lose" maxim kicks in.

Being a pretty zealous computer enthusiast prowling ebay every day for
a while, I was always getting machines delivered to me from far flung
places. Risks abound, but laptops are a special crap shoot. One
laptop that _I_ sold and shipped was delivered ~DOA (POST but no
boot). (Yikes! It was been a sweet, *sweet* old maxed-out top-of-the-
line ThinkPad, lovingly built up with some very cool software - had
been my own favorite.) I had packed it well, but knowing laptops
fragility I could not shake the sinking feeling that I had given up my
baby to the gorillas at UPS for grocery money and was now going to
have to refund anyway. Fortunately, I walked the new owner through re-
seating the hard drive in its bay (step-by-minute-step in one take via
email - tech support Jedi skillz :-), and it lit up for him and he was
very happy. (Whew. :-]

(Someday I'll have to discuss the creative art and science of
protective packaging :-)

[T0m $herman]

On 3/29/2013 10:50 PM, Dan O wrote:
> (Someday I'll have to discuss the creative art and science of
> protective packaging:-)

Think about the people who get to pack and unpack irreplaceable
artifacts for traveling museum exhibits.

--
T0m $herm@n

[Dan O]

On Mar 29, 9:01 pm, "T0m $herman"

Yes, a fascinating case - irreplaceable therefor invaluable, and yet
constraints apply - not a "cost no object" situation. Good one.

[datakoll]

so who dais the 'artifacts' are the real 'artifacts' ?
in Home depot or Lowes one finds 'feet' for equipment or design ypour own.

The 1705E here has two thicknesses webbed feet from HD on each corner and batt giving more antislip and air flow.

I ahven't picked up anew GPS lately. Are cases more vinyl rubbery than 8 years ago. The 76csx here is kinda plasticee compared with Cateye or MiFi sporting a cost effective thin vinyl band on perimeter edge.

A gps hard case can be glued with ethafoam or whathaveyou small knobby bumps as your laptop. Several perimeter knobbies n four each flat surface goes a looooooong way toward fool proofing.

Yeha Newton kills. The awww it was always safe there on the seat doesnp;t cut it with Newton who wrote 'expensive equiment tends to stay in motion"

[T0m $herman]

On 3/30/2013 6:46 PM, datakoll wrote:
> Yeha Newton kills. The awww it was always safe there on the seat doesnp;t cut it with Newton who wrote 'expensive equiment tends to stay in motion"

But he makes a good fig cookie.

--
T0m $herm@n

[Michael Press]

In article <bj8uk8hlmh8cm04g5...@4ax.com>,

"(PeteCresswell)" <x...@y.Invalid> wrote:

> Does anybody have experience carrying a laptop computer with hard drive
> in a rear-luggage-rack-mounted pannier bag?
>
> My kneejerk reaction is that it needs tb carried in a messenger bag or
> back pack to isolate it from road shock.
>
> OTOH, it seems like there's some give when something's in a fabric
> pannier bag.
>
> Does anybody have a history of carrying a laptop in a pannier bag
> without damage?

A true laptop computer satchel has an interior suspension system
that isolates the device from vertical shock. The computer
does not sit on the bottom of the satchel. The satchel must
be placed vertically in the bicycle pannier or automobile
to function properly. Hotel goons will load them flat---morons.

--
Michael Press

[Wes Groleau]

Most hard drives these days are nearly shockproof when powered off,
The heads are parked in a brace sort of like the arm on the old vinyl
record players.

Some laptops even have accelerometers, and if dropped, the heads will be
parked before the thing hits the ground. I doubt that would save a
running disk in a trunk or pannier, when the impact is the first thing
the accelerometer detects. But if it is powered off, it's OK anyway.

I had a basket mounting break on a curve, tossing laptop in a padded bag
onto the street. The impact scraped a hole in the corner of the bag and
scarred the corner of the laptop itself. Everything still works.

I've carried the same laptop and bag in a pannier hundreds of miles and
it still works fine.

If you want a little extra security, get an SSD.

--
Wes Groleau

Those who make peaceful revolution impossible
will make violent revolution inevitable.
— John F. Kennedy

[24k...@gmail.com]

> Does anybody have a history of carrying a laptop in a pannier bag
> without damage?

I found this thread searching for 'shock absorbing pannier'. I've carried two laptops on my bike; one survived and one failed.

The Dell Vostro 1520 was sturdy. For almost a year I carried it in a neoprene sleeve in an unpadded pannier clipped on the rear rack. One day a clip or shock-cord hook came loose and the pannier hit the pavement. The laptop suffered no HD problems. I glued the cracked corner of the lid shell and used it daily. For a few months I carried it in a padded, suspended-sleeve laptop backpack in a basket on top of the rack with a jacket under the pack for more bump isolation.

My Company eventually replaced it with a Dell Vostro 3560. After about one month carrying it the same way, the HD began making scraping noises, then failed to boot within a couple days. We replaced the HD and it's working fine. Judging it more fragile than to 1520, I no longer put it on top of the rack. I'm looking for a secure, bump-isolating pannier so I don't have to wear it on my back.

Apparently some HDs are sturdier, or mounted better, than others.
--
Karl

[Joe Riel]

You might find the following pdf interesting,
though not helpful to your goal:

www.rei.com/marketing/MIT-REI_Pannier-Laptop_Project.pdf‎

--
Joe Riel

[datakoll]

THE 9400/1705E Inspiron I'm using now is near 8 years old. Never dropped it. Recording with Raven software thru a PMD620 recorder, I saw...the program goes visual..audio details disappear in 2 playings. I figured the HD was going.

And sure enough at 3AM in a hi G corner, 1705E slid off the van's doghouse onto the floor where intention was placing a pillow I forgot.

Not running, HD was broken out into looping. Replaced with an upgrade and new memory upgrades. Slowly fell 2' The 8 year old model became Dell's 'military' laptop I understand the performance level of a 1705 at 2' indicates a plastic ligh weight explodes into vinylester shrapnel from that height.

I added corner brackets on the doghouse desk. Immediately on return the expletive deleted laptop tried sliding off toward me, a no corner bracket move.

Pelican cases had none 8 years ago but offer several today. One should fit your laptop. You could add a suspension.

My regime is telling myself YOU ARE NOW CARRYING A $2000 COMPUTER.

I hold the 1705 in both hands, look at my feet, the path before me, proceed.

All motions are rehearsed. Everything double checked. But after 7 yuears, one fall.

The NYT had a lookup when I was looking for recorders. Sony's small disc recorders were obsolete to flash recorders. I wasn't 100% tuned into the transition.

The father$ writing about discs wrote that on the 3rd 0r 4th appeal from the kids for another new Sony....

[John B.]

All of the laptop H.D.s I've replaced are essentially mounted the same
- bolted into the structure of the computer. Whether they are all
equal as to crash damage I couldn't say but in taking several apart to
salvage the magnets they all look the same internally.

But, if crash damage is a really major consideration than a SSD (Solid
State Drive) is probably the answer. Expensive compared to H.D. but
said to be essentially crash proof.

--
Cheers,

John B.