who made this frame????
ccrider
with old-school Campy NR/SR. I'm just wondering if any of you out
there have a clue as to it's origin. The friend I bought it from
didn't have a clue. He only had it a year and the guy he bought it
from didn't know much either. Anyway, I took pics of it and put them
up at the link below:
http://ccrider.nebraska.edu/mybikes/red63cm/red63cm.html
I would guess it's an late 70's / early '80s european built 'road/light
touring' bike. The stars on the inside of the fork would lead one to
immediately guess Guercotti, but I'm thinking it's more of a custom job.
Back then frame builders had a huge selection of different types of
lugsets, right?
Anyway, if any of you guys can help me out identifying the maker/origin
of this frameset I'd really appreciate it! thanks!
Conrad
--
>--------------------------<
Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com
Sergio SERVADIO
There are brazed-on attachments for fenders and/or a rack. So, it appears
to be a touring, more than a racing, frame. What intrigues me is the
absense of the manufacturer's label and the presence of the Campagnolo
logo in the steering area: I have never seen such a thing.
I suspect the frame has been repainted and the decals that appear are not
the original ones.
As as a side remark.
Over here one can find (at least I could) lots of excellent bikes or
frames for little money: nobody wants them, in practise.
An example? A complete, smooth running blue Colnago of that area for
XXXX euros.
Well, should I plunge into business?
Sergio
Pisa
szymszy
> As as a side remark.
> Over here one can find
where?
> (at least I could) lots of excellent bikes or
> frames for little money: nobody wants them, in practise.
> An example? A complete, smooth running blue Colnago of that area for
> XXXX euros.
where???
Simon
mail to stsimon @ tlen.pl
Waldo Hinshaw
"ccrider" <usenet...@cyclingforums.com> wrote in message
news:3e8a9184$1...@news.chariot.net.au...
I have a frame that identical to yours as far as I can see. If it is the
same, yours has been repainted. Mine came out of the Spring 1986 Performance
catalog and was called the "Performance Blue Ridge". It sold for $350. The
catalog description called it a "sport touring frame, built for us in Italy
to exacting specifications." No other information about the builder was
given.
A Muzi
ID.
Campagnolo showed steerers in the catalog until about 1975. They were not
all that unusual in the era.
If you think you can buy low and sell high there's a bright future for you
in the industry. In reality though, one often gets waves of compliments on
trade-in and vintage machines but few serious offers. I recently overpaid
for a Super Record reduced 1981 bike with hardly any miles. After a year I
sold the kit for half what I paid and got a few dollars for the frameset
leaving a small net loss. The cost of money over a year is a factor too.
"Beautiful" and "Saleable" are not necessarily the same thing. . .
--
Andrew Muzi
http://www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April 1971
"Sergio SERVADIO" <serv...@mail.df.unipi.it> wrote in message
news:Pine.LNX.3.96.103040...@servadio.df.unipi.it...
Mike Jacoubowsky
back when. I don't recall the star on the inside fork reinforcement, but
otherwise it looks like what I remember. I believe they were built by more
than one place during the time in which they were imported.
--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
ajames54™
FOUR Xs'?
is that more than 1000 euros?
sounds a bit high ..
Jay Beattie
"Waldo Hinshaw" <wa...@ix.netcom.RemoveToUse.com> wrote in message
news:b6f0rr$ebs$1...@slb3.atl.mindspring.net...
I thought it was one of the catalog specials (including PAB), but I put
it vintage-wise in the very late '70s to early '80s. SP had fallen out
of popularity by '86 and so had the long road drop-out -- but by the
late '70s, it was common to build with braze-on cable guides and cable
routing under the BB. Guess I was wrong. Anyway, this is the perfect
touring bike, and it is too bad you cannot get one for $350 anymore. I
should have bought one. Send it to me if you do not want it; I ride a
63cm. -- Jay Beattie.
Jon Isaacs
>If you think you can buy low and sell high there's a bright future for you
>in the industry. In reality though, one often gets waves of compliments on
>trade-in and vintage machines but few serious offers.
> I recently overpaid
>for a Super Record reduced 1981 bike with hardly any miles. After a year I
>sold the kit for half what I paid and got a few dollars for the frameset
>leaving a small net loss. The cost of money over a year is a factor too.
>"Beautiful" and "Saleable" are not necessarily the same thing. . .
I agree. I find some pretty nice bikes for virtually nothing and if I like em,
I buy em. But there is a limited market for anything but a few collectors
items.
Here is a link to one fellows thoughts on the subject:
http://www.cyclingutah.com/april/april98/classapr.htm
Here is a quote:
"As with any used item, value is determined by what someone is willing to pay
more so than by what is being asked by the seller. There are exceptions in the
case of very rare and collectible bikes, such as very early Cinelli. Masi, and
DeRosa (50s and 60s era). These have a value that does not really fluctuate
because there is a national market for them. Even further down this path of
collectibility are bikes from Rene Hearse, Alex Singer, Hetchins, Brian Bayliss
and Mario Confente. The value of these bikes, as with any rare art, continues
to climb regardless of trends, and each would warrant a dedicated feature for
proper representation. We will focus on more common and available classics for
this feature."
I have read this page before and was quite surprised that local legend Brian
Bayliss was right there at the top. I know he makes beautiful frames and does
exceptional paint work but I did not realize people held his stuff in such high
regard.
jon isaacs
Harris
> Could be one of the Italian frames that Palo Alto Bicycles brought in way
> back when. I don't recall the star on the inside fork reinforcement, but
> otherwise it looks like what I remember. I believe they were built by more
> than one place during the time in which they were imported.
I think you're right, Mike. I have an '84 PAB frame and it is almost
identical to this. PAB had three models at the time: Road Racer,
Touring, and Light Touring.
I have the Road Racing model which is built with SL tubing, no eyelets,
but does have brazed on DT bosses. It also has the "doves" and "stars" and
the same chrome pattern.
I think the one pictured here is the Touring model which was built with SP
tubing, and had longer stays and a more laid back geometry.
Mine is also 63cm (blue) and also has the "BMZ" on the BB. But mine has a
"Palo Alto" headbadge decal. I do recall that Performance sold a very
similar frame, but I think their's had chromed forks.
Art Harris
Waldo Hinshaw
"Harris" <aha...@bookworm.suffolk.lib.ny.us> wrote in message
news:pCGia.34126$A%3.42...@ord-read.news.verio.net...
Correct. The frame Performance sold had chrome seat stays, chain stays, and
forks. But every other detail looks identical (except for the decals, of
course). BTW, mine is a 65 cm frame and has the "BMZ" on the BB. They must
have come from the same builder. Performance sold two versions with slightly
different geometry, one for racing and the other for sport touring.
I just noticed that the Performance catalog from 1986 also offered four
other framsets all of which look similar. But the one with the same paint
job, lugs, etc. as that of the OP (as far as I can tell from the catalog
picture) is a De Rosa Professional frameset. It looks like it has "De Rosa"
(with the "O" encircling a heart) embossed on the flat part of the top of
the seat stays.
Sergio SERVADIO
All right. The XXXXX were meant to be filled in with integer digits.
1000 euros would be way too much.
Any large bike shop in Italy should have a good selection.
Where do I shop mainly?
In the Pisa-Lucca area, in Italy.
This afternoon I took a cyclist from Santa Barbara (California) on a quick
bike-related tour and I think he almost fainted.
If serious about it, write in private.
Sergio
Pisa
ccrider
> I have a frame that identical to yours as far as I can see. If it is
the
> same, yours has been repainted. Mine came out of the Spring 1986
Performance
> catalog and was called the "Performance Blue Ridge". It sold for $350.
The
> catalog description called it a "sport touring frame, built for us in
Italy
> to exacting specifications." No other information about the builder
was
> given.
I thought it was one of the catalog specials (including PAB), but I put
it vintage-wise in the very late '70s to early '80s. SP had fallen out
of popularity by '86 and so had the long road drop-out -- but by the
late '70s, it was common to build with braze-on cable guides and cable
routing under the BB. Guess I was wrong. Anyway, this is the perfect
touring bike, and it is too bad you cannot get one for $350 anymore. I
should have bought one. Send it to me if you do not want it; I ride a
63cm. -- Jay Beattie.
Jay, thanks for the info (and everyone else's too!). I also was thinking
vintage-wise this frame is too archaic for 1986. So, I'd say at the very
latest it's a 80'-83 vintage frame. I think all road/touring bikes had
braze on downtube shifter bosses by then, right? And like you pointed
out, the super long campy rear dropouts weren't used as much by mid
80's. Either way, it's a sweet looking frame and in great shape. i just
need to find some vintage long reach brakes to put on it.
ccrider
but does have brazed on DT bosses. It also has the "doves" and "stars"
and the same chrome pattern.
I think the one pictured here is the Touring model which was built with
SP tubing, and had longer stays and a more laid back geometry.
Mine is also 63cm (blue) and also has the "BMZ" on the BB. But mine has
a "Palo Alto" headbadge decal. I do recall that Performance sold a very
similar frame, but I think their's had chromed forks.
Art Harris
Art, You have pics of your frame? I'd like to see it! Or even buy it if
you are interested. :)
almost fast
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&q=biemmezeta
ccrider <usenet...@cyclingforums.com> wrote in message news:<3e8bea0a$2...@news.chariot.net.au>...
Art Harris
> Art, You have pics of your frame? I'd like to see it! Or even buy it if
> you are interested. :)
Oh, I could never sell "Big Blue"!
At home I have the Palo Alto brochure with photos and all the specs on
the three models. If you e-mail me your address, I'd be glad to snail
mail you a copy.
I was looking at my bike last night and all the lugs, cutouts, and
tangs are identical to yours. Unfortunately, I don't have a digital
camera. But Jobst's son has a Palo Alto frame and there are some good
photos of it at:
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/olafbrandt/lst?.dir=/Alps+Tour+2001
The first photo (102-0207) and the next to last (IMG_0462) of the set
show the bike pretty well.
Also:
http://www.sbraweb.org/photos/2001/jobst/
Good luck on your project.
Art Harris
Harris
> Maybe BMZ stands for Biemmezeta?
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&q=biemmezeta
Hey, thanks for the tip! The "BMZ" mystery has been bugging me for
years. You might just have the answer.
Art Harris
ccrider
> Art, You have pics of your frame? I'd like to see it! Or even buy it
> if you are interested. :)
Oh, I could never sell "Big Blue"!
At home I have the Palo Alto brochure with photos and all the specs on
the three models. If you e-mail me your address, I'd be glad to snail
mail you a copy.
I was looking at my bike last night and all the lugs, cutouts, and
tangs are identical to yours. Unfortunately, I don't have a digital
camera. But Jobst's son has a Palo Alto frame and there are some good
photos of it at:
http://photos.yahoo.com/bc/olafbrandt/lst?.dir=/Alps+Tour+2001http://ph-
otos.yahoo.com/bc/olafbrandt/lst?.dir=/Alps+Tour+2001
The first photo (102-0207) and the next to last (IMG_0462) of the set
show the bike pretty well.
Also: http://www.sbraweb.org/photos/2001/jobst/http://www.sbraweb.org/p-
hotos/2001/jobst/
Good luck on your project.
Art Harris
Art, I can't pull up your email. but here is my snail mail addr:
Conrad Castaneda 618 S. 27th #2 Lincoln, NE 68510
photocopied or scanned images from that Palo Alto brochure of yours
would be great!!!! I really appreciate it! Thanks,
ccrider
Biemmezeta, can you check and let us know if 'BMZ' appears on the bb
shell of your frame? It would sure help those of us who have these
'mystery' / palo alto imported frames to find out who really made
them. thanks
Originally posted by Almost Fast Maybe BMZ stands for Biemmezeta?
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&q=bie-
mmezetahttp://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=of-
f&q=biemmezeta
ccrider <usenet...@cyclingforums.com> wrote in message
news:<3e8bea0a$2...@news.chariot.net.au>...
> I have the Road Racing model which is built with SL tubing, no
> eyelets, but does have brazed on DT bosses. It also has the "doves"
> and "stars" and the same chrome pattern.
>
> I think the one pictured here is the Touring model which was built
> with SP tubing, and had longer stays and a more laid back geometry.
>
> Mine is also 63cm (blue) and also has the "BMZ" on the BB. But mine
> has a "Palo Alto" headbadge decal. I do recall that Performance sold a
> very similar frame, but I think their's had chromed forks.
>
> Art Harris
--
Harris
> photocopied or scanned images from that Palo Alto brochure of yours
> would be great!!!! I really appreciate it! Thanks,
> Conrad
I just mailed you a copy of the brochure. One interesting thing in the
specs is that the Touring model DIDN'T have DT bosses, while the Racing
and Light Touring models did. So that's consistent with what you've got.
Colors were metallic blue, metallic red, and anthracite grey (silver in
the Light Touring model).
The Touring Model used SP tubing in sizes 58cm and up (SL in the smaller
sizes).
The brochure only has an illustration of the frame, no photos. My memory
was wrong about the photos. But it's got lots of details about the
materials/geometry, etc. BTW, the brochure is postmarked May 2, 1984.
Art Harris
ccrider
specs is that the Touring model DIDN'T have DT bosses, while the Racing
and Light Touring models did. So that's consistent with what you've got.
Colors were metallic blue, metallic red, and anthracite grey (silver in
the Light Touring model).
The Touring Model used SP tubing in sizes 58cm and up (SL in the
smaller sizes).
The brochure only has an illustration of the frame, no photos. My memory
was wrong about the photos. But it's got lots of details about the
materials/geometry, etc. BTW, the brochure is postmarked May 2, 1984.
Art Harris
- - - - - -
Art, I got the copy of the brochure today! THANKS!!!