Downtube interference with cartridge BB
Rex Kerr
when I found that the downtube protrudes into the BB shell such that
the cartridge cannot be installed.
Does anybody see any problem with carefully grinding the protruding
section away with a dremel until the cartridge can go through? (the
frame is lugged)
Thanks,
-Rex
Nate Nagel
I personally don't - but a Dremel may take a while, do you have a friend
with a die grinder?
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
thirty-six
Takes too long. use a cold chisel from the other side.
Rex Kerr
> I personally don't - but a Dremel may take a while, do you have a friend
> with a die grinder?
I have an air powered one, 100 miles away, in storage. :-)
landotter
Don't see any problem. The frame builders simply couldn't anticipate
the future is all.
RonSonic
wrote:
Don't do that chisel thing.
But yes, it's safe and sensible to grind it out since the builder didn't.
--
Oh damn. There's that annoying blog. Again. http://dumbbikeblog.blogspot.com
Andre Jute
Take too long with a Dremel. Buy some small grinding wheels with
shafts that fit the smallest electric drill you have and do the job
with that; you can go back to the Dremel for the finishing touches.
The small grinding wheels usually come in a cheap kit of five or six
at my equivalent of a dime store, and the most useful one for your
purpose is probably the cone which is just less than an inch at its
widest part. -- Andre Jute
Rex Kerr
Thanks guys... it seemed safe, but I figured I should check. I ground
it out, didn't take long, but have now run into another problem... I
can install the cartridge from the non drive side (it's french, both
are right hand threads) and it goes all of the way through, so I did
manage to grind the tube enough, but from the drive side it bottoms
out on some brass bits and other stuff that's not threaded far enough
(the original cup has far fewer threads than the new BB)... I guess I
have to find a shop with a French BB tap set... somehow I suspect
that'll be difficult!!
That said, looking at the specs of the ISO BB it looks like they're
1.375 x 24 TPI, which comes to 34.9, or possibly close enough to 35...
could a shop w/ two ISO tap sets use two right handed taps and chase
it w/o ruining the existing threads?
RonSonic
>On Nov 5, 7:05�pm, Rex Kerr <rexk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I recently purchased a french BB for my Peugeot and was installing it
>> when I found that the downtube protrudes into the BB shell such that
>> the cartridge cannot be installed.
>>
>> Does anybody see any problem with carefully grinding the protruding
>> section away with a dremel until the cartridge can go through? �(the
>> frame is lugged)
>>
>
>Thanks guys... it seemed safe, but I figured I should check. I ground
>it out, didn't take long, but have now run into another problem... I
>can install the cartridge from the non drive side (it's french, both
>are right hand threads) and it goes all of the way through, so I did
>manage to grind the tube enough, but from the drive side it bottoms
>out on some brass bits and other stuff that's not threaded far enough
>(the original cup has far fewer threads than the new BB)... I guess I
>have to find a shop with a French BB tap set... somehow I suspect
>that'll be difficult!!
Can you relieve that area with your grinder?
Not speaking from much experience, but the Italian BB is also RH threads both
sides and the ones I've seen were simply hogged all the way through from one
side. I'd think that was the point of having only RH threads, you trade off cup
loosening for a straight easy to machine bottom bracket.
Someone here will get you sorted, I'm sure.
>That said, looking at the specs of the ISO BB it looks like they're
>1.375 x 24 TPI, which comes to 34.9, or possibly close enough to 35...
>could a shop w/ two ISO tap sets use two right handed taps and chase
>it w/o ruining the existing threads?
--
Hank
Of course, if they could have anticipated the future, they would have
threaded it English.
Bill Sornson
> Can you relieve that area with your grinder?
Family newsgroup, buddy.
Bill "hey, it's been a while" S.
(for the /quip/ that is)
thirty-six
> On Nov 5, 7:05 pm, Rex Kerr <rexk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I recently purchased a french BB for my Peugeot and was installing it
> > when I found that the downtube protrudes into the BB shell such that
> > the cartridge cannot be installed.
>
> > Does anybody see any problem with carefully grinding the protruding
> > section away with a dremel until the cartridge can go through? (the
> > frame is lugged)
>
> Thanks guys... it seemed safe, but I figured I should check. I ground
> it out, didn't take long, but have now run into another problem... I
> can install the cartridge from the non drive side (it's french, both
> are right hand threads) and it goes all of the way through, so I did
> manage to grind the tube enough, but from the drive side it bottoms
> out on some brass bits and other stuff that's not threaded far enough
> (the original cup has far fewer threads than the new BB)... I guess I
> have to find a shop with a French BB tap set... somehow I suspect
> that'll be difficult!!
Cut the thread off your cartridge unit to length to match your bottom
bracket shell. Use a file. Scrape the threads in the shell with a
steel pick. Oil up and try again. If it still wont seat, tapering
the thread on the cartridge shell for the last two or three threads
should get it sorted.
dusto...@mac.com
It might not be so difficult to find a shop with the correct taps.
The taps might be dusty and crowded to the back of the shelf, so to
speak <g>.
Just call around and ask, get the BB threaded correctly, and then no
problems resorting from kludge "fixes".
--D-y
landotter
They still would have threaded it French.
:-D
landotter
How about you use a proper french BB, now that they're available:
N8N
If it's threaded far enough but there's just some brazing munging up
the threads, why not take your old adjustable cup, cut some slots in
it with a hacksaw across the threads, and use that as a thread chaser?
nate
Hank
>
> - Show quoted text -
They're more forward-thinking than that. They could do "BB35."
Hank
>
> - Show quoted text -
Sounds like that's what the OP is using.
landotter
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Sounds like that's what the OP is using.
:facepalm:
Hate to say--I almost agree with Trev on this--if the taps can't be
found.
AMuzi
thirty-six
> On Nov 5, 7:05 pm, Rex Kerr <rexk...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I recently purchased a french BB for my Peugeot and was installing it
> > when I found that the downtube protrudes into the BB shell such that
> > the cartridge cannot be installed.
>
> > Does anybody see any problem with carefully grinding the protruding
> > section away with a dremel until the cartridge can go through? (the
> > frame is lugged)
>
> it out, didn't take long, but have now run into another problem... I
> can install the cartridge from the non drive side (it's french, both
> are right hand threads) and it goes all of the way through, so I did
> manage to grind the tube enough, but from the drive side it bottoms
> out on some brass bits and other stuff that's not threaded far enough
> (the original cup has far fewer threads than the new BB)... I guess I
> have to find a shop with a French BB tap set... somehow I suspect
> that'll be difficult!!
>
> That said, looking at the specs of the ISO BB it looks like they're
> 1.375 x 24 TPI, which comes to 34.9, or possibly close enough to 35...
> could a shop w/ two ISO tap sets use two right handed taps and chase
> it w/o ruining the existing threads?
14 hours later.
Any hot tips for the GG's.
AMuzi
>>>> I recently purchased a french BB for my Peugeot and was installing it
>>>> when I found that the downtube protrudes into the BB shell such that
>>>> the cartridge cannot be installed.
>>>> Does anybody see any problem with carefully grinding the protruding
>>>> section away with a dremel until the cartridge can go through? (the
>>>> frame is lugged)
>> landotter <landot...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Don't see any problem. The frame builders simply couldn't anticipate
>>> the future is all.
> Hank <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
>> Of course, if they could have anticipated the future, they would have
>> threaded it English.
landotter wrote:
> They still would have threaded it French.
Do you mean m35 SI << Standard Internationale >> format?
Let's raise a glass to cultural hegemony!
John Thompson
John Thompson
> Not speaking from much experience, but the Italian BB is also RH threads both
> sides and the ones I've seen were simply hogged all the way through from one
> side. I'd think that was the point of having only RH threads, you trade off cup
> loosening for a straight easy to machine bottom bracket.
Absolutely right, and it's easier than using a piloted tap set to ensure
properly aligned, concentric threads on each side of the shell.
>[OP wrote:]
>
>>That said, looking at the specs of the ISO BB it looks like they're
>>1.375 x 24 TPI, which comes to 34.9, or possibly close enough to 35...
>>could a shop w/ two ISO tap sets use two right handed taps and chase
>>it w/o ruining the existing threads?
No. You'll trash the threads. Do it right or just use your old bottle
bracket.
--
-John (jo...@os2.dhs.org)
John Thompson
> Do you mean m35 SI << Standard Internationale >> format?
> Let's raise a glass to cultural hegemony!
Err... c'est le <<Syst�me Internationale>>, oui?
--
-John (jo...@os2.dhs.org)
bjwe...@gmail.com
>
> >[OP wrote:]
>
> >>That said, looking at the specs of the ISO BB it looks like they're
> >>1.375 x 24 TPI, which comes to 34.9, or possibly close enough to 35...
> >>could a shop w/ two ISO tap sets use two right handed taps and chase
> >>it w/o ruining the existing threads?
>
> No. You'll trash the threads. Do it right or just use your old bottle
> bracket.
To amplify, the French BB thread is 35x1mm pitch, so
the ISO taps are the wrong pitch.
Ben
AMuzi
> On 2009-11-06, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> Do you mean m35 SI << Standard Internationale >> format?
>> Let's raise a glass to cultural hegemony!
>
>
Ya got me. Packets have a big red <<SI>>.
Thanks
Chalo
>
> John Thompson wrote:
> > >
> > >[OP wrote:]
> > >>
> > >>That said, looking at the specs of the ISO BB it looks like they're
> > >>1.375 x 24 TPI, which comes to 34.9, or possibly close enough to 35...
> > >>could a shop w/ two ISO tap sets use two right handed taps and chase
> > >>it w/o ruining the existing threads?
> >
> > No. You'll trash the threads. Do it right or just use your old bottle
> > bracket.
>
> To amplify, the French BB thread is 35x1mm pitch, so
> the ISO taps are the wrong pitch.
To confuse, note that cartridge BBs do not need to be tightened nearly
as much as cup'n cone units.
Chalo
thirty-six
> Not speaking from much experience, but the Italian BB is also RH threads both
> sides and the ones I've seen were simply hogged all the way through from one
> side. I'd think that was the point of having only RH threads, you trade off cup
> loosening for a straight easy to machine bottom bracket.
During the time of the bicycle boom when national standards were
adopted, Italians drank coffee, French drank water and English drank
gin or porter.
AMuzi
thirty-six
> thirty-six wrote:
> > On 6 Nov, 07:24, RonSonic <ronso...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >> Not speaking from much experience, but the Italian BB is also RH threads both
> >> sides and the ones I've seen were simply hogged all the way through from one
> >> side. I'd think that was the point of having only RH threads, you trade off cup
> >> loosening for a straight easy to machine bottom bracket.
>
> > During the time of the bicycle boom when national standards were
> > adopted, Italians drank coffee, French drank water and English drank
> > gin or porter.
>
No evidence there of assembly workers beverage consumption at
breakfast and lunch when bottom bracket threads became standardized.
What's the point in that?
bjwe...@gmail.com
(Assuming you meant tightened as much in terms
of thread length, not torque)
One would think so, but then again:
http://www.velo-orange.com/grcrufrthbob.html
More threads than a random BB cup set I looked
at for comparison. It's French, it has to be different.
Ben
Rex Kerr
wrote:
> One would think so, but then again:
>
> http://www.velo-orange.com/grcrufrthbob.html
>
> More threads than a random BB cup set I looked
> at for comparison. It's French, it has to be different.
>
> Ben
Yeah, that's the very BB that I'm trying to install...
Rex Kerr
> Cut the thread off your cartridge unit to length to match your bottom
> bracket shell. Use a file. Scrape the threads in the shell with a
> steel pick. Oil up and try again. If it still wont seat, tapering
> the thread on the cartridge shell for the last two or three threads
> should get it sorted.
I've considered that, but it feels really hackish. I may have to
resort to that, but would rather not!
Rex Kerr
> > How about you use a proper french BB, now that they're available:
>
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Sounds like that's what the OP is using.
Yes, that's the very BB that I'm trying to install. The threads go
much deeper than the original fixed cup that I removed, which is why I
need a tap.
thirty-six
Be professional, wear an apron and a pair of latex gloves. ;-)
Michael Press
<474d705d-9fc1-4f6f...@a21g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
"b...@mambo.ucolick.org" <bjwe...@gmail.com> wrote:
What I do not understand is the hollow spindle.
I know about the math, and have not done the
calculation. Still, my intuition tells me that
bottom bracket spindles are so on the edge that
removing any material takes them too far into
the frequent failure regime to be worth the
minuscule weight saving.
--
Michael Press
Michael Press
AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
> thirty-six wrote:
> > On 6 Nov, 07:24, RonSonic <ronso...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Not speaking from much experience, but the Italian BB is also RH threads both
> >> sides and the ones I've seen were simply hogged all the way through from one
> >> side. I'd think that was the point of having only RH threads, you trade off cup
> >> loosening for a straight easy to machine bottom bracket.
> >
> > During the time of the bicycle boom when national standards were
> > adopted, Italians drank coffee, French drank water and English drank
> > gin or porter.
>
>
> http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/foo_alc_con-food-alcohol-consumption-current
Many surprises there. I expected Sweden, Iceland, and Norway to match Finland.
I knew many Finns are heavy drinkers.
USA is below average, and average is weighted by population.
Another surprise.
France, Spain, Portugal above average; Italy below.
I am average or above for USA.
Probably all the Baptists in the USA.
They need to pick up the slack.
--
Michael Press
AMuzi
I assume the Russians play in their own league - off the chart.
Norman
> > AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
> >> thirty-six wrote:
> >>> On 6 Nov, 07:24, RonSonic <ronso...@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> Not speaking from much experience, but the Italian BB is also RH threads both
> >>>> sides and the ones I've seen were simply hogged all the way through from one
> >>>> side. I'd think that was the point of having only RH threads, you trade off cup
> >>>> loosening for a straight easy to machine bottom bracket.
> >>> During the time of the bicycle boom when national standards were
> >>> adopted, Italians drank coffee, French drank water and English drank
> >>> gin or porter.
>
>
> > Many surprises there. I expected Sweden, Iceland, and Norway to match Finland.
> > I knew many Finns are heavy drinkers.
>
> > USA is below average, and average is weighted by population.
> > Another surprise.
>
> > France, Spain, Portugal above average; Italy below.
>
> > I am average or above for USA.
> > Probably all the Baptists in the USA.
> > They need to pick up the slack.
>
> I assume the Russians play in their own league - off the chart.
>
According to what little I could find through some
klutzy searches it's between 15 & 18 L/yr, or right
up there with *.lu. Another interesting thing is that
the Whirled Health Orgasm convieniently says,
"consumption of more than 8 liters per year poses
a real threat to the health of the nation. "
http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/2009-177-1.cfm
And your chart shows *.it right at that level. Coin-
cidence? I think not. Everyone knows all about
those Italians: