Campagnolo hubs EU source
Luca Magnoni
Here _in Italy_ it's getting almost impossibile to find new Campagnolo
hubs.
Shops don't have them anymore, and Campagnolo doesn't have _any_ rear
hub left in their warehouse except from Record 32h.
Most online shops don't carry them either. I have tried www3.hibike.de
which has Centaur listed but again, rear hubs are not available.
Chain Reaction, only Record, same for Wiggle and Bike Discount. Bike
Components in Germany same as HiBike, listed but not available.
Is there any European source I could contact that still carries them?
Or is eBay (UK or D) my only chance?
I know it's paradoxal since I am in Italy but...
Thanks in advance.
Luca
Clive George
news:68db045e-11c3-4db0...@v36g2000yqv.googlegroups.com...
> Hello everybody.
> Here _in Italy_ it's getting almost impossibile to find new Campagnolo
> hubs.
That's because they've abandoned the market. I'm angry about this.
> Shops don't have them anymore, and Campagnolo doesn't have _any_ rear
> hub left in their warehouse except from Record 32h.
That's all they make now.
> Most online shops don't carry them either. I have tried www3.hibike.de
> which has Centaur listed but again, rear hubs are not available.
> Chain Reaction, only Record, same for Wiggle and Bike Discount. Bike
> Components in Germany same as HiBike, listed but not available.
>
> Is there any European source I could contact that still carries them?
> Or is eBay (UK or D) my only chance?
> I know it's paradoxal since I am in Italy but...
Your best bet is smaller places - hope they've got some in a box gathering
dust somewhere.
I'll be ditching campag hubs and going to some shimano compatible type, with
one of the campag/shimano adaptations to let me keep my ergos.
BigP
> Hello everybody.
> Here _in Italy_ it's getting almost impossibile to find new Campagnolo
> hubs.
>
> Shops don't have them anymore, and Campagnolo doesn't have _any_ rear
> hub left in their warehouse except from Record 32h.
>
> Most online shops don't carry them either. I have tried www3.hibike.de
> which has Centaur listed but again, rear hubs are not available.
> Chain Reaction, only Record, same for Wiggle and Bike Discount. Bike
> Components in Germany same as HiBike, listed but not available.
>
> Is there any European source I could contact that still carries them?
I've looked hard and cannot find any UK online retailers with stock of rear
Campag hubs other than Record 32h.
> Or is eBay (UK or D) my only chance?
I think so. They do very occasionally appear on eBay - from various
countries.
P. Chisholm
Hi Luca!!
Campagnolo is only making 32 hole Record, none other.
We have 2006 Centaur in 36h and 32 hole, hub pairs only. The nice ones
with the alumnum axle.
Tom Ace
> > Shops don't have them anymore, and Campagnolo doesn't have _any_ rear
> > hub left in their warehouse except from Record 32h.
>
> That's all they make now.
I'm curious about what hubs come in the lower-priced Campi groups.
Do those groups all include Record hubs now? Or no hubs?
Or lower-priced hubs (that are only sold as part of a full
component group, i.e. not a la carte)?
Tom Ace
jim beam
wow! big bad shimano to the rescue! they still make [and sell] a full
range of hubs...
Clive George
news:b20dca0b-79d2-4747...@y10g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
What defines a group anyway? Even within the ranges there are choices -
double vs triple, different cassettes, etc. Would a Record groupset come
with a hub, even if those buying it would be buying pre-built wheels?
The answer to your question is "No hubs".
Tom Ace
> What defines a group anyway?
Once upon a time, Campagnolo did. In the Catalog 17 era
for example, Campagnolo gave a pic and parts list of what
came in each group--and hubs were in the list.
> The answer to your question is "No hubs".
Ah, okay.
Tom Ace
RonSonic
Hubs are now sold within wheels, not as part of the group. You buys your gruppo
and you buys your wheelset.
--
Oh damn. There's that annoying blog. Again. http://dumbbikeblog.blogspot.com
bfd
> On Sep 2, 1:43 am, Luca Magnoni <magnoni.l...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hello everybody.
> > Here _in Italy_ it's getting almost impossibile to find new Campagnolo
> > hubs.
>
> > Shops don't have them anymore, and Campagnolo doesn't have _any_ rear
> > hub left in their warehouse except from Record 32h.
>
> > Most online shops don't carry them either. I have tried www3.hibike.de
> > which has Centaur listed but again, rear hubs are not available.
> > Chain Reaction, only Record, same for Wiggle and Bike Discount. Bike
> > Components in Germany same as HiBike, listed but not available.
>
> > Is there any European source I could contact that still carries them?
> > Or is eBay (UK or D) my only chance?
> > I know it's paradoxal since I am in Italy but...
>
> > Thanks in advance.
> > Luca
>
> Hi Luca!!
> Campagnolo is only making 32 hole Record, none other.
>
to the nice, shiny silver hubs!
> We have 2006 Centaur in 36h and 32 hole, hub pairs only. The nice ones
> with the alumnum axle.- Hide quoted text -
>
Agree, the 2006 and early Centaur hubs were basically Record/Chorus
with a locking screw instead of a bolt as the innards, i.e., cones,
cups, races, are all the same. Get a 3mm bolt and you're done.
Note, Nashbar still has the Centaur "grey" rear hub for $75:
http://www.nashbar.com/bikes//Product_10053_10052_215281_-1___
-
Andrew Price
<cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>> Here _in Italy_ it's getting almost impossibile to find new Campagnolo
>> hubs.
>
>That's because they've abandoned the market. I'm angry about this.
Did they explain why they took this decision?
Clive George
news:4cdt959b9ibro8u3q...@4ax.com...
I've not seen one, but I can guess - pre-built wheels are filling the
lightweight market, which is where campag are.
AMuzi
Campagnolo's ONLY hub offered is Record 32h Black. It's been
over 2 years now since silver hubs or 36h.
Aftermarket Campagnolo compatible sealed cartridge hubs are
another alternate. Or Campagnolo complete wheels, some of
which, such as Khamsins, are inexpensive.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
jim beam
why bother with a built wheel that just does its job reliably and
without intervention, when you can buy a "hand built" wheel from your
lbs that needs truing every other weekend?
Clive George
news:h7medm$833$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
> Aftermarket Campagnolo compatible sealed cartridge hubs are another
> alternate.
Who makes such things? Any at a sensible (eg Mirage-level) price?
cjcra...@idcomm.com
What would you recommend for an after -market campy compatible hub?
Thanks,
Chris
jim beam
i love it when the freds make statements like this. anyone that does
any mileage has learned that higher quality parts last longer, thus
they're worth the money, at least up to ultegra/chorus/xt level.
otoh, image we had a fred that's bad at math and doesn't do the mileage
to have learned this...
Clive George
news:8oadnaMQi78fXAPX...@speakeasy.net...
> Clive George wrote:
>> "AMuzi" <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
>> news:h7medm$833$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>>> Aftermarket Campagnolo compatible sealed cartridge hubs are another
>>> alternate.
>>
>> Who makes such things? Any at a sensible (eg Mirage-level) price?
>
> i love it when the freds make statements like this. anyone that does any
> mileage has learned that higher quality parts last longer, thus they're
> worth the money, at least up to ultegra/chorus/xt level.
Yeah, like the XT cassette which didn't last as long at the LX one you mean?
> otoh, image we had a fred that's bad at math and doesn't do the mileage to
> have learned this...
The wearing parts in a Mirage hub are simple cartridge bearings - an easy
replacement. What else is to go wrong?
Andrew Price
<cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>That's because they've abandoned the market. I'm angry about this.
>>
>> Did they explain why they took this decision?
>
>I've not seen one, but I can guess - pre-built wheels are filling the
>lightweight market, which is where campag are.
OK, thanks. That seems a pretty plausible explanation, as they're in
the pre-built wheel market themselves.
BigP
Miche. I don't know if they are any good.
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Miche_Primato_Road_Hubs/5360044316/
jim beam
> "jim beam" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:8oadnaMQi78fXAPX...@speakeasy.net...
>> Clive George wrote:
>>> "AMuzi" <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
>>> news:h7medm$833$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>
>>>> Aftermarket Campagnolo compatible sealed cartridge hubs are another
>>>> alternate.
>>> Who makes such things? Any at a sensible (eg Mirage-level) price?
>> i love it when the freds make statements like this. anyone that does any
>> mileage has learned that higher quality parts last longer, thus they're
>> worth the money, at least up to ultegra/chorus/xt level.
>
> Yeah, like the XT cassette which didn't last as long at the LX one you mean?
no, like xt bearings that last longer. and there's no reason an xt
cassette lasts any less long than lx. same grade steel, same finish,
simply stamped differently so it's slightly lighter.
>
>> otoh, image we had a fred that's bad at math and doesn't do the mileage to
>> have learned this...
>
> The wearing parts in a Mirage hub are simple cartridge bearings - an easy
> replacement. What else is to go wrong?
>
>
all the materials are lower quality and the production is done with
lower precision. both mean lower durability, both fatigue and wear
resistance.
Clive George
> Clive George wrote:
>> "jim beam" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>> news:8oadnaMQi78fXAPX...@speakeasy.net...
>>> Clive George wrote:
>>>> "AMuzi" <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
>>>> news:h7medm$833$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>
>>>>> Aftermarket Campagnolo compatible sealed cartridge hubs are another
>>>>> alternate.
>>>> Who makes such things? Any at a sensible (eg Mirage-level) price?
>>> i love it when the freds make statements like this. anyone that does
>>> any mileage has learned that higher quality parts last longer, thus
>>> they're worth the money, at least up to ultegra/chorus/xt level.
>>
>> Yeah, like the XT cassette which didn't last as long at the LX one you
>> mean?
>
> no, like xt bearings that last longer. and there's no reason an xt
> cassette lasts any less long than lx. same grade steel, same finish,
> simply stamped differently so it's slightly lighter.
Actually there is a good reason, and one I've mentioned before, but I'll let
you work it out.
>>> otoh, image we had a fred that's bad at math and doesn't do the mileage
>>> to have learned this...
>>
>> The wearing parts in a Mirage hub are simple cartridge bearings - an easy
>> replacement. What else is to go wrong?
>
> all the materials are lower quality and the production is done with lower
> precision. both mean lower durability, both fatigue and wear resistance.
The main wearing parts are replacable - change the bearings and you're back
to new. What fatigues on a hub? (I know 'fatigue' is one of your little
obsessions).
jim beam
> "jim beam" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:mKudnXgbEOofUAPX...@speakeasy.net...
>> Clive George wrote:
>>> "jim beam" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>> news:8oadnaMQi78fXAPX...@speakeasy.net...
>>>> Clive George wrote:
>>>>> "AMuzi" <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
>>>>> news:h7medm$833$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Aftermarket Campagnolo compatible sealed cartridge hubs are another
>>>>>> alternate.
>>>>> Who makes such things? Any at a sensible (eg Mirage-level) price?
>>>> i love it when the freds make statements like this. anyone that does
>>>> any mileage has learned that higher quality parts last longer, thus
>>>> they're worth the money, at least up to ultegra/chorus/xt level.
>>> Yeah, like the XT cassette which didn't last as long at the LX one you
>>> mean?
>> no, like xt bearings that last longer. and there's no reason an xt
>> cassette lasts any less long than lx. same grade steel, same finish,
>> simply stamped differently so it's slightly lighter.
>
> Actually there is a good reason, and one I've mentioned before, but I'll let
> you work it out.
no, you spell it out - if you think you have one. there is no reason lx
lasts longer than xt - same materials, same finish. oh, and i've used
both with no discernible difference, but let's not get into that.
>
>>>> otoh, image we had a fred that's bad at math and doesn't do the mileage
>>>> to have learned this...
>>> The wearing parts in a Mirage hub are simple cartridge bearings - an easy
>>> replacement. What else is to go wrong?
>> all the materials are lower quality and the production is done with lower
>> precision. both mean lower durability, both fatigue and wear resistance.
>
> The main wearing parts are replacable - change the bearings and you're back
> to new. What fatigues on a hub? (I know 'fatigue' is one of your little
> obsessions).
>
>
dude, how many times a week do we have component failure cited here?
what proportion of those failures are fatigue?
Orin
Try totalcycling.com. They have 32H Daytona listed as a hubset...
same as the 'good' Centaur hubs.
Orin.
Hank
Because I want a higher spoke count and better hubs?
The wheels I build have held up pretty well. I rarely need to touch
them with a spoke wrench.
jim beam
higher spoke count achieves nothing in this day and age. it doesn't
help fatigue, the original rationale. especially not with modern
straight pull spokes. and it doesn't help load with modern rims.
higher spoke counts are worse in cross-winds too.
>
> The wheels I build have held up pretty well. I rarely need to touch
> them with a spoke wrench.
have you ever used pre-built wheels? provided they don't get "helped"
by someone believing jobstian bullshit about spoke tension, they work
just fine. i've not had to touch my shimano r540's once, and my mavic
cosmos have never needed spokes adjusting, pot-hole smashes aside. i
weigh ~210.
Ben C
> "jim beam" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>> The wearing parts in a Mirage hub are simple cartridge bearings - an easy
>>> replacement. What else is to go wrong?
I guess all that freehub pawl stuff could go wrong. The axle can also
break.
>> all the materials are lower quality and the production is done with lower
>> precision. both mean lower durability, both fatigue and wear resistance.
>
> The main wearing parts are replacable - change the bearings and you're back
> to new. What fatigues on a hub? (I know 'fatigue' is one of your little
> obsessions).
Well, I think the flange can fatigue. We see sometimes flanges with
chunks taken out of them, usually because of radial spoking, but that is
basically a fatigue failure I believe, that I presume would happen
eventually to even a cross-spoked hub if you used it for long enough
(replacing the bearings when they wore out).
On the subject of Campag longevity, I've heard that Veloce (one up from
Mirage) is (or should I say was, sob) about the best. Above that it gets
lighter, but not necessarily more durable.
By the way does anyone know if they still make cassettes besides 11s
Record?
someone
> On 2009-09-02, Clive George <cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > "jim beam" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> [...]
> >>> The wearing parts in a Mirage hub are simple cartridge bearings - an easy
> >>> replacement. What else is to go wrong?
>
> I guess all that freehub pawl stuff could go wrong. The axle can also
> break.
>
> >> all the materials are lower quality and the production is done with lower
> >> precision. both mean lower durability, both fatigue and wear resistance.
>
> > The main wearing parts are replacable - change the bearings and you're back
> > to new. What fatigues on a hub? (I know 'fatigue' is one of your little
> > obsessions).
>
> Well, I think the flange can fatigue. We see sometimes flanges with
> chunks taken out of them, usually because of radial spoking, but that is
> basically a fatigue failure I believe, that I presume would happen
> eventually to even a cross-spoked hub if you used it for long enough
> (replacing the bearings when they wore out).
Not with tangential exit of the spokes from the hub, this results in
more sress taken in compression with the flange being squeezed between
two pspoke elbows. As long as there were no manufacturing flaws then
the hub flange will outlive its rider barring accident.
Clive George
There's a difference in the constuction, or didn't you notice that? Makes
one of them weaker...
>>>>> otoh, image we had a fred that's bad at math and doesn't do the
>>>>> mileage to have learned this...
>>>> The wearing parts in a Mirage hub are simple cartridge bearings - an
>>>> easy replacement. What else is to go wrong?
>>> all the materials are lower quality and the production is done with
>>> lower precision. both mean lower durability, both fatigue and wear
>>> resistance.
>>
>> The main wearing parts are replacable - change the bearings and you're
>> back to new. What fatigues on a hub? (I know 'fatigue' is one of your
>> little obsessions).
>
> dude, how many times a week do we have component failure cited here? what
> proportion of those failures are fatigue?
And?
Hank
I weigh 260. I had a set of Ambrosio Sonars, 28 spoke. I'll freely
admit that they never required truing in the time I rode them. But I
got rid of them all the same, because a) the external-cam skewers
couldn't grip tightly enough to stay put in horizontal dropouts (which
I dealt with by swapping in a spare Shimano skewer) and b) the hubs
had huge amounts of bearing seal drag, even after several hundred
miles of break-in.
I got a set of the 2006 Centaurs when Nashbar still had fronts and
rears in 36h, and built them up with Velocity Aeroheads (OC rear) and
14/15 Sapim spokes. I got the tension spec from a posting in this
group, from someone who'd contacted Velocity for the spec. Tension
checked with my Park TM-1.
Those wheels were lighter than the Ambrosios, by at least 100g.
Whether it's the weight, or the bearing seal drag, or pevailing winds,
my commute times (17.24 miles each way) went down by a consistent 2
minutes each way once I ditched the wheelzinnabox.
Only problem I've had was a broken drive-side spoke on the rear after
2 years and about 3000 miles. The spare spoke went in easy (no problem
getting it true with normal tension) and the wheel is still going
strong. I liked them so much, I built an identical set for another
bike.
Clive George
news:slrnh9tlcn....@bowser.marioworld...
> On 2009-09-02, Clive George <cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>> "jim beam" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> [...]
>>>> The wearing parts in a Mirage hub are simple cartridge bearings - an
>>>> easy
>>>> replacement. What else is to go wrong?
>
> I guess all that freehub pawl stuff could go wrong. The axle can also
> break.
Yeah, but unlikely. Freehub pawls don't get much grief on my solo either.
The tandem OTOH eats ratchets.
>>> all the materials are lower quality and the production is done with
>>> lower
>>> precision. both mean lower durability, both fatigue and wear
>>> resistance.
>>
>> The main wearing parts are replacable - change the bearings and you're
>> back
>> to new. What fatigues on a hub? (I know 'fatigue' is one of your little
>> obsessions).
>
> Well, I think the flange can fatigue. We see sometimes flanges with
> chunks taken out of them, usually because of radial spoking, but that is
> basically a fatigue failure I believe, that I presume would happen
> eventually to even a cross-spoked hub if you used it for long enough
> (replacing the bearings when they wore out).
>
> On the subject of Campag longevity, I've heard that Veloce (one up from
> Mirage) is (or should I say was, sob) about the best. Above that it gets
> lighter, but not necessarily more durable.
Veloce was very similar to Mirage in almost all respects AFAIK.
> By the way does anyone know if they still make cassettes besides 11s
> Record?
Not had a problem getting hold of 9s yet.
Hank
Thanks for the tip!
I put in an order, we'll see if they deliver...
RonSonic
Because decent hand built wheels don't require truing often at all. I've got
four 10-20-ish year old road wheelsets that never need touched. Three of them
have done cyclocross racing, two of them have covered a couple thousand miles of
single track in addition to the 'cross racing and training. True I'm relatively
easy on wheels, but that's in the context of a 200 pound guy riding off road.
Properly built 32 spoke wheels with good rims and hubs will last just fine.
RonSonic
Older Mirage stuff is also in that category. Probably why Campy discontinued the
line, it was ridiculously good for the price.
>By the way does anyone know if they still make cassettes besides 11s
>Record?
No shortage of cassettes for 9 and up at this time. I'd have to guess they were
still in production.
jim beam
"decent" is the word. of all the bike shops here in the bay area, i've
only seen one guy's work really hold up well. all the rest, both for me
and friends that have used them, have been very disappointing. this
goes for pre-built wheels too once they've been "helped". factory
though, my experience with pre-built has been much superior. which,
when we're honest with ourselves, is why the things sell. if they were
crap, people would be paying huge sums for "artisan". and be glad of it
too.
> I've got
> four 10-20-ish year old road wheelsets that never need touched. Three of them
> have done cyclocross racing, two of them have covered a couple thousand miles of
> single track in addition to the 'cross racing and training. True I'm relatively
> easy on wheels, but that's in the context of a 200 pound guy riding off road.
> Properly built 32 spoke wheels with good rims and hubs will last just fine.
"properly built" is a surprisingly rare commodity.
jim beam
then you don't know what "weaker" means evidently.
>
>>>>>> otoh, image we had a fred that's bad at math and doesn't do the
>>>>>> mileage to have learned this...
>>>>> The wearing parts in a Mirage hub are simple cartridge bearings - an
>>>>> easy replacement. What else is to go wrong?
>>>> all the materials are lower quality and the production is done with
>>>> lower precision. both mean lower durability, both fatigue and wear
>>>> resistance.
>>> The main wearing parts are replacable - change the bearings and you're
>>> back to new. What fatigues on a hub? (I know 'fatigue' is one of your
>>> little obsessions).
>> dude, how many times a week do we have component failure cited here? what
>> proportion of those failures are fatigue?
>
> And?
"and" fatigue is extremely important. it's guys like you that don't
think it is that end up bleating about broken stuff. particularly when
it means you're in the emergency room wondering why your credit card is
being humped by some fat chick with a personal hygiene problem.
AMuzi
>>> Shops don't have them anymore, and Campagnolo doesn't have _any_ rear
>>> hub left in their warehouse except from Record 32h.
Tom Ace wrote:
> I'm curious about what hubs come in the lower-priced Campi groups.
> Do those groups all include Record hubs now? Or no hubs?
> Or lower-priced hubs (that are only sold as part of a full
> component group, i.e. not a la carte)?
Define 'group'. No one has ever defined it. A collection of
matching parts may or may not include headset, post, hubs,
pedals or not.
Even ensembles (add frame) are commonly without pedals. Now
that we're supporting a dozen headset formats, more often
without headset too.
AMuzi
>>>> hub left in their warehouse except from Record 32h.
> "Clive George" <cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>>> That's all they make now.
> "Tom Ace" <tom...@gmail.com> wrote
>> I'm curious about what hubs come in the lower-priced Campi groups.
>> Do those groups all include Record hubs now? Or no hubs?
>> Or lower-priced hubs (that are only sold as part of a full
>> component group, i.e. not a la carte)?
Clive George wrote:
> What defines a group anyway? Even within the ranges there are choices -
> double vs triple, different cassettes, etc. Would a Record groupset come
> with a hub, even if those buying it would be buying pre-built wheels?
> The answer to your question is "No hubs".
"unless you want hubs"
AMuzi
>>> hubs.
> "Clive George" <cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>> That's because they've abandoned the market. I'm angry about this.
Andrew Price wrote:
> Did they explain why they took this decision?
No, but here's my guess.
Parts makers supply bicycle manufacturers. Glossy catalogs
are cute but order books reflect what's selling. The entire
aftermarket is a small shadow of oem and bike makers just
weren't buying enough hubs any longer.
AMuzi
>> alternate.
Clive George wrote:
> Who makes such things? Any at a sensible (eg Mirage-level) price?
Velocity
Tom Ace
> > "Clive George" <cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> >>> Shops don't have them anymore, and Campagnolo doesn't have _any_ rear
> >>> hub left in their warehouse except from Record 32h.
> >> That's all they make now.
> Tom Ace wrote:
> > I'm curious about what hubs come in the lower-priced Campi groups.
> > Do those groups all include Record hubs now? Or no hubs?
> > Or lower-priced hubs (that are only sold as part of a full
> > component group, i.e. not a la carte)?
>
> Define 'group'. No one has ever defined it. A collection of
> matching parts may or may not include headset, post, hubs,
> pedals or not.
No one? Does it not count that Campagnolo had catalog
numbers for various groups, e.g. 1032/F for the Nuovo Record
road group, 4000/F for Super Record, ..., with lists of what
came in each group? Top-of-the-line bikes from several
brands at the time came equipped with everything in the
NR group. This was before the bring-your-own-pedals era.
Tom Ace
AMuzi
Generally, yes. However steel cassette bodies don't split
as aluminum bodies occasionally do. And Clive makes a good
point about cartridges where water salt and dirt are
expected. Loose ball systems are 'better' but not always better.
AMuzi
Of course; Campagnolo eight, nine and ten cassettes in
various ranges. They are high volume service parts just like
chain.
Luca Magnoni
> AMuzi wrote:
> > Luca Magnoni wrote:
> >> Hello everybody.
> >> hubs.
>
> >> hub left in their warehouse except from Record 32h.
>
> >> which has Centaur listed but again, rear hubs are not available.
> >> Chain Reaction, only Record, same for Wiggle and Bike Discount. Bike
> >> Components in Germany same as HiBike, listed but not available.
>
> >> Is there any European source I could contact that still carries them?
> >> Or is eBay (UK or D) my only chance?
> >> I know it's paradoxal since I am in Italy but...
>
> > Campagnolo's ONLY hub offered is Record 32h Black. It's been over 2
> > years now since silver hubs or 36h.
>
> > Khamsins, are inexpensive.
>
> why bother with a built wheel that just does its job reliably and
> without intervention, when you can buy a "hand built" wheel from your
> lbs that needs truing every other weekend?
Maybe the ones that _you_ build, not mine. Btw, I use Open Pro rims as
well.
Cheers
Luca
Luca Magnoni
Try Miche, or Marchisio, or Vuelta (their carbon ones are famous for
being out of true after _every single_ race).
Ciao
Luca
Clive George
Um, more likely to fail? Less strong? Not as capable of withstanding forces
which can be applied to it? Coz that's the case.
>>>>>>> otoh, image we had a fred that's bad at math and doesn't do the
>>>>>>> mileage to have learned this...
>>>>>> The wearing parts in a Mirage hub are simple cartridge bearings - an
>>>>>> easy replacement. What else is to go wrong?
>>>>> all the materials are lower quality and the production is done with
>>>>> lower precision. both mean lower durability, both fatigue and wear
>>>>> resistance.
>>>> The main wearing parts are replacable - change the bearings and you're
>>>> back to new. What fatigues on a hub? (I know 'fatigue' is one of your
>>>> little obsessions).
>>> dude, how many times a week do we have component failure cited here?
>>> what proportion of those failures are fatigue?
>>
>> And?
>
> "and" fatigue is extremely important.
Yes, and?
> it's guys like you that don't think it is that end up bleating about
> broken stuff. particularly when it means you're in the emergency room
> wondering why your credit card is being humped by some fat chick with a
> personal hygiene problem.
No it isn't. You let your obessions blind you.
Dennis Davis
>Hello everybody.
>Here _in Italy_ it's getting almost impossibile to find new Campagnolo
>hubs.
>
>Shops don't have them anymore, and Campagnolo doesn't have _any_ rear
>hub left in their warehouse except from Record 32h.
...
As others have commented in this thread, Campagnolo only have the
Record 32h hubs in their product line. I checked last night in the
2009 product catalogue. Only the Record 32h hubs are listed, apart
from track hubs.
How times have changed. The 1998 product catalogue lists the
following front and rear nine-speed hubs:
Record 32/36
Chorus 32/36
Athena 28/32/36
Veloce 32/36
Mirage 32/36
Avanti 32/36
Looks like you're supposed to buy one of their wheelsets. That's
not good news for people who prefer to build their own wheels.
--
Dennis Davis, BUCS, University of Bath, Bath, BA2 7AY, UK
D.H....@bath.ac.uk
P. Chisholm
> On Sep 2, 4:00 am, "Clive George" <cl...@xxxx-x.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > > Shops don't have them anymore, and Campagnolo doesn't have _any_ rear
> > > hub left in their warehouse except from Record 32h.
>
>
> Do those groups all include Record hubs now? Or no hubs?
> Or lower-priced hubs (that are only sold as part of a full
> component group, i.e. not a la carte)?
>
Groups don't include hubs more headsets nor seatposts anymore.
8 piece group, no hubs.
P. Chisholm
> Luca Magnoni wrote:
> > Hello everybody.
> > Here _in Italy_ it's getting almost impossibile to find new Campagnolo
> > hubs.
>
> > hub left in their warehouse except from Record 32h.
>
> > which has Centaur listed but again, rear hubs are not available.
> > Chain Reaction, only Record, same for Wiggle and Bike Discount. Bike
> > Components in Germany same as HiBike, listed but not available.
>
> > Is there any European source I could contact that still carries them?
> > Or is eBay (UK or D) my only chance?
> > I know it's paradoxal since I am in Italy but...
>
> > Luca
>
> wow! big bad shimano to the rescue! they still make [and sell] a full
> range of hubs...
Does shimano make a Campagnolo compatible freehub, like Campagnolo
makes a shimano/sram compatible freehub?..I didn't know that.
P. Chisholm
> "AMuzi" <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
>
> news:h7medm$833$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> > Aftermarket Campagnolo compatible sealed cartridge hubs are another
> > alternate.
>
> Who makes such things? Any at a sensible (eg Mirage-level) price?
Velocity and Miche both have nice hubs that are Campagnolo compatible.
P. Chisholm
> On Sep 2, 11:49 am, jim beam <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > AMuzi wrote:
> > > Luca Magnoni wrote:
> > >> Hello everybody.
> > >> Here _in Italy_ it's getting almost impossibile to find new Campagnolo
> > >> hubs.
>
> > >> Shops don't have them anymore, and Campagnolo doesn't have _any_ rear
> > >> hub left in their warehouse except from Record 32h.
>
> > >> Most online shops don't carry them either. I have tried www3.hibike.de
> > >> which has Centaur listed but again, rear hubs are not available.
> > >> Chain Reaction, only Record, same for Wiggle and Bike Discount. Bike
> > >> Components in Germany same as HiBike, listed but not available.
>
> > >> Is there any European source I could contact that still carries them?
> > >> Or is eBay (UK or D) my only chance?
> > >> I know it's paradoxal since I am in Italy but...
>
> > > years now since silver hubs or 36h.
>
> > > Khamsins, are inexpensive.
>
> > why bother with a built wheel that just does its job reliably and
> > without intervention, when you can buy a "hand built" wheel from your
> > lbs that needs truing every other weekend?
>
> Because I want a higher spoke count and better hubs?
>
> them with a spoke wrench.
Doesn't pay to wrestle.......
jim beam
i don't have any problems with the ones i build. but before i started
doing this myself, i used to use local builders. it was really
disappointing. and continues to be based on the wheels that i repair
for friends.
jim beam
so they are all italian???
jim beam
wow, you're strong enough to bend a cassette! you must be some mighty
impressive he-man! oh, wait, i don't believe you...
>
>>>>>>>> otoh, image we had a fred that's bad at math and doesn't do the
>>>>>>>> mileage to have learned this...
>>>>>>> The wearing parts in a Mirage hub are simple cartridge bearings - an
>>>>>>> easy replacement. What else is to go wrong?
>>>>>> all the materials are lower quality and the production is done with
>>>>>> lower precision. both mean lower durability, both fatigue and wear
>>>>>> resistance.
>>>>> The main wearing parts are replacable - change the bearings and you're
>>>>> back to new. What fatigues on a hub? (I know 'fatigue' is one of your
>>>>> little obsessions).
>>>> dude, how many times a week do we have component failure cited here?
>>>> what proportion of those failures are fatigue?
>>> And?
>> "and" fatigue is extremely important.
>
> Yes, and?
>
>> it's guys like you that don't think it is that end up bleating about
>> broken stuff. particularly when it means you're in the emergency room
>> wondering why your credit card is being humped by some fat chick with a
>> personal hygiene problem.
>
> No it isn't. You let your obessions blind you.
eh? it's important, but it's not? dude, you're just not being honest
with yourself.
Clive George
Your problem. Those who work usenet in read-write rather than write-only may
know a little more of this.
someone
Yes.
jim beam
no they don't make a campy compatible freehub. but they do make a
highly reliable freehub, still available, and a full range of cassettes
that fit. so, if you're not obsessed with 11 speeds, you can go knock
yourself out with a shimano hub on an otherwise campy system. i did for
years until i got sick of that stupid breaking campy shifter thing.
btw, what about mavic cassettes?
jim beam
you're a really funny guy! valuable honest knowledge provider too!
z
Dumbass,
Where did you get the idea that Vuelta is Italian? The isn't even
Italian, it's Spanish.
z
Like passing off Vuelta as Italian and the non-existence of valved two
strokes?
Luca Magnoni
yes, but not made in Italy
Ciao
L.
jim beam
"passing off"??? do you know what "???" means??? oh, wait, you're just
trolling for a fight. my mistake.
Luca Magnoni
He is actually right about it.
Some Vuelta wheels (road, high and low end) were made in Castel San
Pietro Terme, near Bologna, Italy (6 kms from my house) until the
Italian side of the company went bankrupt a couple of years ago.
Giro is not an Italian brand after all.
Cheers
Luca
Luca Magnoni
So why not building them yourself instead of buying pre-built like
Khamshin (or whatever the name is)?\
Pay same money, do something different than watching tv at night, and
don't miss your Sunday ride (and most likely next Tuesday, and
Thursday...) if a spoke breaks on Saturday afternoon.
Nothing against Campagnolo wheels, much better than dozens of other
builders, but... for training?
Pre-built wheels should be only "super-expensive-high-tech-carbon-
extra-light" stuff you use only for racing, not ordinary wheels for
every day rides and for training. Hand-built wheels are still far
superior for every day use.
Ciao
Luca
Clive George
I do try.
> valuable honest knowledge provider too!
Dude, if you'd not spent the past few years being snarky and stalking Jobst,
you might not appear quite so hypocritical making that comment.
Ben C
Do you mean they make Campag compatible cassettes?
Pete
but there is a hole potpourri of after market manufacturers that make
bubs, converters, cassettes or spacer kits not to mention all the
combinations that work by themself! These are just a few that could
think of right now but I'm sure there are plenty more...;)
Hubs with Campagnolo compatible cassette body:
http://www.whiteind.com/rearhubs/cassettehubs.html
http://www.dtswiss.com/Products/Components2009/Hubs/240s-(1).aspx
http://www.hopegb.com/mes_r_typ_s_rayoncherche_Pro%20lll%20Non%20Disc%20Hubs_tricherche_1.html
http://www.cyclestore.co.uk/productDetails.asp?productID=14149&catID=600
http://www.amclassic.com/products/hubs/road205.php
http://www.amclassic.com/documents/help/AC_HubChart09.pdf
http://www.mountainbikecomponents.co.uk/result.asp?CategoryID=14&Name=GOLDTEC+Hubs+and+Wheels
http://www.miche.it/prodotti.php?id=248
http://www.tune.de/
http://www.frmbike.biz
http://www.extralite.com/
http://www.sun-ringle.com/contentpages/road/hubs.php5
http://wheelsmfg.com/
http://www.soul-kozak.com/bike.htm
http://www.velocityusa.com/default.asp?contentID=526
http://www.formulahubs.com/
http://www.novatec.com.tw/
----------------------------
More Campa compatible hubs?
http://chrisking.com/hubs/hbs_classic
http://www.philwood.com/products/hubs/road-hubs/
More hub info:
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/rearhubs.asp
http://www.prowheelbuilder.com/product.php?prod_id=958
http://weightweenies.starbike.com/listings/components.php?type=hubs
----------------------
Or use a converter to make Shimano hubs and cassettes work with
Campagnolo gears/brifters/shifters:
http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/Shiftmate.asp
http://jtekengineering.com/shiftmate.htm
There are also plenty of conversion cassette's and spacer kits so you
can use any hub/cassette:
http://wheelsmfg.com/content/section/15/40/
http://www.mavic.com/road/products/m10-cassette-.M30414.3.aspx
http://www.amclassic.com/products/components/cassette.php
http://www.cycle-dynamics.com/index.html
http://clemenzo.com/index.php/content/view/12/31/lang,en/
http://www.bellatisport.com/shop/category/88/product/289/Marchisio_Sprocket_Kit_Junior,_Plural_or_Aviotek.html
Here are more info of how to mix and match that is worth reading
before you take your pick:
http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=3946
http://www.hubbub.com/articles_ergopower.html
http://www.wheelworks.co.nz/drivetrain.php?ST=C3&FD=C3&RD=C3&CN=T6&CS=C3&CR=S2
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-spacing.html
http://bikesarethesolution.wordpress.com/2008/04/28/surly-crosscheck-shimergo-conversion/
Ps: You want to run a Campagnolo 10 speed cassette on a Shimano
cassette body?
Unfortunately it is not possible. The simple reason being - the
Shimano cassette body is too short.
In this case we recommend to use a modified 9 speed cassette with
spacers for Campagnolo 10 speed.
RonSonic
Hank
>
> - Show quoted text -
Meh, I hit all his talking points.
At least he didn't give me with the "I don't believe you really used a
tensiometer" line that he hit Chalo with a week or so ago.
jim beam
no, it's just not shimano - for the shimano haters, and available in 10
speed.
jim beam
i gave up on hand-builts because of the bearing seals [and have since
discovered other benefits*]. riding in the not too common, but when it
does occur, absolutely torrential california rain, i found both campy
and shimano to be problematic. since moving to mavic for my wet
commuter, i've not had any more bearing problems. i was particularly
disappointed with shimano - my experience with their mtb hubs has been
great, all kinds of conditions, but their road hubs just aren't sealed
as well, and they get contaminated. fully sealed bearings for me from
now on.
* other benefits include lower spoke count which turns out to be a big
bonus when crossing the golden gate bridge in 30mph cross winds.
jim beam
er, that was a rhetorical device. do you know what rhetoric is?
>
>> valuable honest knowledge provider too!
>
> Dude, if you'd not spent the past few years being snarky and stalking Jobst,
> you might not appear quite so hypocritical making that comment.
>
>
eh? so, when jobst fucks up and refuses to correct his blatherings on:
1. bearing brinelling
2. headset bearings not containing a journal
3. bearing elasto-hydrodynamic separation
4. cause of false brinelling
5. load calculation not being a strength calculation
6. strength not being a function of tension
7. stiffness not being a function of tension
8. rim cracking being a function of spoke tension and anisotropy, not
anodizing
9. fatigue elimination in a material with no endurance limit
10. brake cable elasticity
[yawn].
you think it's ok for him to just keep pissing in the knowledge pool?
even when it costs /you/ money?
like i said, you're a really funny guy!
Luca Magnoni
<p...@pomegranateremovehighlyimpracticalfruitmm.st> wrote:
> Clive George wrote:
> > "AMuzi" <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
> >news:h7medm$833$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> >> Aftermarket Campagnolo compatible sealed cartridge hubs are another
> >> alternate.
>
> > Who makes such things? Any at a sensible (eg Mirage-level) price?
>
>
> http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Miche_Primato_Road_Hubs/5360044316/
Miche is not actually not that bad, their rear hubs tend to have
crappy freewheels tho
Ciao
Luca
Luca Magnoni
> >>> Here _in Italy_ it's getting almost impossibile to find new Campagnolo
> >>> hubs.
> >> That's because they've abandoned the market. I'm angry about this.
> Andrew Price wrote:
> > Did they explain why they took this decision?
>
> No, but here's my guess.
> Parts makers supply bicycle manufacturers. Glossy catalogs
> are cute but order books reflect what's selling. The entire
> aftermarket is a small shadow of oem and bike makers just
> weren't buying enough hubs any longer.
> --
> Andrew Muzi
And that also follows the dismissal of rims by Campagnolo in... what
year? maybe 99? 2000?
Another crying shame.
Ciao
Luca
Ben C
Their cassettes are also lousy-- teeth break off. I've also found their
headsets to be of poor quality (although I expect there's a range that
the one I had was close to the bottom of).
P. Chisholm
Just sold and then tried to source 7850 hubs...DISCONTINUED, thanks
very much. In the market for about a year, now gone. Altho the 7900
are nice hubs, they ARE $120 more per pair. More money than DT.
P. Chisholm
What's that sound? The point whizzing over 'ones'(not Ben's) head.
Peter S.
> Hey Luca, don't worry, be happy! Campagnolo may have abandoned ship
> but there is a hole potpourri of after market manufacturers that make
> bubs, converters, cassettes or spacer kits not to mention all the
> combinations that work by themself! These are just a few that could
> think of right now but I'm sure there are plenty more...;)
[snip: good list of Campagnolo hub alternatives]
The main problem with the listed hubs are that most of them are
unavailable in the EU, impossible to get spare parts for, have no 36H
drillings or are outrageously expensive.
IMHO Hope Pro 3 hubs are the only hub on the list that can be had
with: 36H (even in silver), have available spare parts, can be bought
in the EU without trouble, can be had a price only slightly larger
than Campagnolo Record hubs.
Miche Racing box hubs could be a contender too, but not only are they
only sold in pairs, I have been unable to find any online EU source of
spare parts like freehub bodies.
There is also Ambrosio Zenith hubs like these:
http://www.totalcycling.com/index.php/manufacturer/ambrosio/HB_ZENITH_S_R.html
They also doesn't have any online spare parts or even service
instructions online, but they are cheap enough that is possible to buy
a spare hub an cannibalize it for spare parts like a freehub body and
still be better off than buying a single Hope Pro 3 hub.
British Royce also make a "Titan" 36H Campagnolo hub.
http://www.genisysconsulting.co.uk/royce-uk/
It seems impossible to actually buy anywhere else than directly from
the manufacturer. No one sells spare parts for the hub, but it looks
like that you could order anything you want directly from Royce. Not
that much cheaper than Chris King or Phil Wood hubs here in the EU.
All in all, 36H Campagnolo compatible hubs are scarce and either
impossible to get spare parts and service instructions for, or they
are expensive or even so outrageously priced that converting to
Shimano/Sram seems the most sensible economical solution. Many of the
boutique hubs also seem to require expensive tools just for servicing.
It really is a shame that Campagnolo stopped making such hubs.
--
Regards
bfd
Wow, I guess the good news is at least Shimano is still offering the
7900 hubs, albeit at alot higher price! That is probably in part due
to the weak dollar to yen. Rivendell has been screaming about it as
their main source of parts for years has been from Japan. Now, the
majority of stuff, including framesets, will appear to come from
Taiwan and, should I dare say it, China.
For the money, which hubs do you prefer, the Shimano 7900 or the DT?
Which is quieter? Thanks!
Lou Holtman
Did I mis something? What is wrong with 32H Record hubs? I don't
understand the fixation on (silver) 36H hubs. For about 170-180 euro you
have a front and rear Record hub. Maybe an investment buy IMO still a
great deal for a outstanding hub that last for years and easy to maintain.
Lou
Sandy
manufactured, they are sold, and the distribution scheme may not favor
internet, but that is far from saying they are not available. With my
local shop/franchise store (Districycle), I can order things as I like,
although the wait may not be very convenient. You don't have to go it
alone in everything you do in this life. Make friends - find a nice store.
--
Bonne route !
Sandy
Verneuil-sur-Seine FR
BigP
> Did I mis something? What is wrong with 32H Record hubs? I don't
> understand the fixation on (silver) 36H hubs. For about 170-180 euro
> you have a front and rear Record hub. Maybe an investment buy IMO
> still a great deal for a outstanding hub that last for years and easy
> to maintain.
Four extra spokes in the rear wheel provides desirable extra reliability or
redundancy for one of the most vulnerable parts of the bike (the rear
wheel), with the only downside being a trivial amount of extra weight and
drag. I agree with Peter. It is a big shame that Campag has stopped making
36h road hubs, and any cheaper-than-Record hubs. The Chorus was my
favourite.
If you think 32 spokes is enough for your rear wheel, it's too many for your
front. So do you use 28 or 24-spoke front wheels?
RonSonic
Isn't 7900 ten-speed only?
Maybe not an issue.
--
Oh damn. There's that annoying blog. Again. http://dumbbikeblog.blogspot.com
BigP
> Why are you obsessed with getting stuff on-line? If the things are
> manufactured,
No they are not manfactured any more (apart from Pista and 32h Record).
That is the point of this discussion.
> they are sold, and the distribution scheme may not favor
> internet, but that is far from saying they are not available. With my
> local shop/franchise store (Districycle), I can order things as I
> like, although the wait may not be very convenient. You don't have
> to go it alone in everything you do in this life. Make friends -
> find a nice store.
The wait for your local store to order a Campagnolo Chorus 36h hub may be
infinite - because the product has been discontinued.
Lou Holtman
Yes 28 spokes or less for my front wheels. 36 spokes were a arbitrary
choice in the old days with crappy spokes and rims and maybe hubs.
You do run 40 spoke wheels in the back?
Personally I find it ridiculous that Campa sell 5 or 6 levels of gruppo's.
Lou
Lou
BigP
36+ is still a good choice for modern highly dished rear wheels, IMO - for
everything other than racing. Wheels still get buckled, and spokes still
snap.
> You do run 40 spoke wheels in the back?
I would consider it if the kind of hubs and rims I like were available in
40h.
> Personally I find it ridiculous that Campa sell 5 or 6 levels of
> gruppo's.
There is only one level of Campagnolo road hub now, with only one option
too. I don't need 5 or 6, but 2 or 3 would be most welcome.
Hank
>
> - Show quoted text -
7800 (which are still plentiful, unsold in the channel) are 10-speed
only due to their aluminum freehub body. 7850 and 7900 have Ti bodies
and are 8/9/10 compatible.
7800 also had the bearings inboard of the fh body, making the axle
very slightly less-well-supported. 7850 moved the bearings back out to
the end. I assume 7900 is the same, but I don't know for sure.
Michael Press
Lou Holtman <lhollaatd...@planet.nl> wrote:
>
> Did I mis something? What is wrong with 32H Record hubs? I don't
> understand the fixation on (silver) 36H hubs. For about 170-180 euro you
> have a front and rear Record hub. Maybe an investment buy IMO still a
> great deal for a outstanding hub that last for years and easy to maintain.
>
> Lou
36 in back, 36 in front. Same rim. One detail fewer.
I prefer the look as well.
--
Michael Press
Peter S.
>
> Why are you obsessed with getting stuff on-line? If the things are
> manufactured, they are sold, and the distribution scheme may not favor
> internet, but that is far from saying they are not available. With my
> local shop/franchise store (Districycle), I can order things as I like,
> although the wait may not be very convenient. You don't have to go it
> alone in everything you do in this life. Make friends - find a nice store.
The point is not being able to buy it online, but being able to buy
them at all. If there is no distribution in your country you friendly
LBS won't get the part. How about a drive from France to Poland to
source a Novatec Campagnolo road hub, or a freehub spare part because
there where no Novatec distributor in France and the German
distributor only carried a very limited selection?
The Ambrosio Zenith hubs are only sold in the UK, if you don't live
there, how do you suggest people not living there should get one?
Even Campagnolo parts are so exotic that many LBS's don't carry them
at all, stuff like FRM, Joytech, Phil Wood is extremely exotic outside
net shops here in the EU.
I am so lucky that I live relative near several good bicycle shops,
and I buy a lot of stuff from, not because I feel any moral obligation
to "support" them, or because I need friends, or because I enjoy
paying much more than if I ordered online, but because I like to see
and feel the stuff I want before I buy, especially shoes and clothes,
and because it is convenient and fast. But none of these shops have
any 36H Campagnolo compatible rear hubs, nor could they get any if
they tried. My alternatives are therefore online shops, or nothing at
all. Probably not an uncommon situation for most Europeans wanting 36H
Campagnolo compatible hubs.
--
Regards
bfd
> 7800 (which are still plentiful, unsold in the channel) are 10-speed
> only due to their aluminum freehub body. 7850 and 7900 have Ti bodies
> and are 8/9/10 compatible.
>
That's correct.
> 7800 also had the bearings inboard of the fh body, making the axle
> very slightly less-well-supported.
On paper, looks like a bad idea. However, in reality, not that much of
an issue. The 7800 with the inboard bearings is very, very similar to
how Campy 9/10 oversized axle hubs are designed and you just don't
hear of axles breaking on those hubs. They may, but for whatever
reason, news of its demise just doesn't seem to be reported.
>7850 moved the bearings back out to
> the end. I assume 7900 is the same, but I don't know for sure.
Yup, correct.
DA 7900 rear hub:
http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/EV/bikecomponents/FH/EV-FH-7900-2875_v1_m56577569830651599.pdf
Peter S.
> Did I mis something? What is wrong with 32H Record hubs?
Yes you did miss something: I often ride with heavy loads. Why
shouldn't I or anybody else in that situation not choose the strongest
possible common 700c wheel design, 36H 3X?
Not only that, but I have standardized on 36H rims on all my bikes a
long time ago. That means that I only need to have one kind of spare
rim, and that I can rebuild any hub with any rim I own, and also
limits the amount of different length of spokes in my stock.
Besides, I much prefer the look of 36 spoke wheels. They just look so
much better.
> I don't
> understand the fixation on (silver) 36H hubs.
All my rims, hubs and spokes are silver because that is what I like
and want. Silver just look much better than black to me. Other people
may have other opinions and prefer gold rims and green spokes and
black hubs etc. That is fine by me, but not what I want.
>For about 170-180 euro you
> have a front and rear Record hub. Maybe an investment buy IMO still a
> great deal for a outstanding hub that last for years and easy to maintain.
The Campagnolo Record hubs merits notwithstanding, I don't want a 32H
rear hub, especially not in black. Just the the fact that all my
generator hub front wheels are 36H would make it aesthetic unpleasing
for me.
--
Regards
someone
> Peter S. schreef:
>
>
>
> > On 3 Sep., 17:15, Pete <pedalling.p...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Hey Luca, don't worry, be happy! Campagnolo may have abandoned ship
> >> but there is a hole potpourri of after market manufacturers that make
> >> bubs, converters, cassettes or spacer kits not to mention all the
> >> combinations that work by themself! These are just a few that could
> >> think of right now but I'm sure there are plenty more...;)
>
> > [snip: good list of Campagnolo hub alternatives]
>
> > The main problem with the listed hubs are that most of them are
> > unavailable in the EU, impossible to get spare parts for, have no 36H
> > drillings or are outrageously expensive.
>
> > IMHO Hope Pro 3 hubs are the only hub on the list that can be had
> > with: 36H (even in silver), have available spare parts, can be bought
> > in the EU without trouble, can be had a price only slightly larger
> > than Campagnolo Record hubs.
> > Miche Racing box hubs could be a contender too, but not only are they
> > only sold in pairs, I have been unable to find any online EU source of
> > spare parts like freehub bodies.
>
> > There is also Ambrosio Zenith hubs like these:
> > They also doesn't have any online spare parts or even service
> > instructions online, but they are cheap enough that is possible to buy
> > a spare hub an cannibalize it for spare parts like a freehub body and
> > still be better off than buying a single Hope Pro 3 hub.
>
> > British Royce also make a "Titan" 36H Campagnolo hub.
> >http://www.genisysconsulting.co.uk/royce-uk/
> > It seems impossible to actually buy anywhere else than directly from
> > the manufacturer. No one sells spare parts for the hub, but it looks
> > like that you could order anything you want directly from Royce. Not
> > that much cheaper than Chris King or Phil Wood hubs here in the EU.
>
> > All in all, 36H Campagnolo compatible hubs are scarce and either
> > impossible to get spare parts and service instructions for, or they
> > are expensive or even so outrageously priced that converting to
> > Shimano/Sram seems the most sensible economical solution. Many of the
> > boutique hubs also seem to require expensive tools just for servicing.
> > It really is a shame that Campagnolo stopped making such hubs.
>
> > --
> > Regards
>
> Did I mis something? What is wrong with 32H Record hubs? I don't
> understand the fixation on (silver) 36H hubs. For about 170-180 euro you
> have a front and rear Record hub. Maybe an investment buy IMO still a
> great deal for a outstanding hub that last for years and easy to maintain.
Monty Young, sprint wheel tested to 1/2 ton before inelastic
deformation occured. A 36 spoke wheel. Basically you will die
before it does.
someone
<p...@pomegranateremovehighlyimpracticalfruitmm.st> wrote:
> Lou Holtman wrote:
> > Peter S. schreef:
> >> On 3 Sep., 17:15, Pete <pedalling.p...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Hey Luca, don't worry, be happy! Campagnolo may have abandoned ship
> >>> but there is a hole potpourri of after market manufacturers that
> >>> make bubs, converters, cassettes or spacer kits not to mention all
> >>> the combinations that work by themself! These are just a few that
> >>> could think of right now but I'm sure there are plenty more...;)
>
> >> [snip: good list of Campagnolo hub alternatives]
>
> >> The main problem with the listed hubs are that most of them are
> >> unavailable in the EU, impossible to get spare parts for, have no 36H
> >> drillings or are outrageously expensive.
>
> >> IMHO Hope Pro 3 hubs are the only hub on the list that can be had
> >> with: 36H (even in silver), have available spare parts, can be bought
> >> in the EU without trouble, can be had a price only slightly larger
> >> than Campagnolo Record hubs.
> >> Miche Racing box hubs could be a contender too, but not only are they
> >> only sold in pairs, I have been unable to find any online EU source
> >> of spare parts like freehub bodies.
>
> >> There is also Ambrosio Zenith hubs like these:
Just use the lightest gauge spokes. Dont use a 24 spoke for general
use on 27", you cannot build cross three, which is necessary for
double tied and soldered wheels to be feasible. Possible with cross 2
but difficult and nowhere near ideal. Use the thinnest spokes on the
front and select number from there. 36 does allow variation in wheel
response according to tension on spokes. This option is eliminated
with a minimal number of spokes. Using 36 on the front means you
always have a spare rear rim. Any cheapo wheel will do for the front
in an emergency, it takes no more than ten minutes to make them good.
someone
I'm with you on all of this. I'll add that the rim up front is no
different than the back, so that any load carried may be distributed
to even up the load on each wheel. Each wheel is then stressed
evenly and if built the same will have an equal minimal strain.
Hank
> On Sep 4, 11:29 am, Hank <h...@wirtznet.net> wrote:
>
> > 7800 (which are still plentiful, unsold in the channel) are 10-speed
> > only due to their aluminum freehub body. 7850 and 7900 have Ti bodies
> > and are 8/9/10 compatible.
>
> That's correct.
>
> > 7800 also had the bearings inboard of the fh body, making the axle
> > very slightly less-well-supported.
>
> On paper, looks like a bad idea. However, in reality, not that much of
> an issue. The 7800 with the inboard bearings is very, very similar to
> how Campy 9/10 oversized axle hubs are designed and you just don't
> hear of axles breaking on those hubs. They may, but for whatever
> reason, news of its demise just doesn't seem to be reported.
No argument. Like I said, "very slightly." I almost said "nominally."
The freehub body offers a reasonable amount of support just by
surrounding the axle, as opposed to a screw-on freewheel body not
contacting the axle at all, unless something is very, very wrong.
someone
And filling the gap between freewheel and axle is not an option?
Jobst Brandt
>>> All in all, 36H Campagnolo compatible hubs are scarce and either
>>> impossible to get spare parts and service instructions for, or
>>> they are expensive or even so outrageously priced that converting
>>> to Shimano/SRAM seems the most sensible economical solution. Many
>>> of the boutique hubs also seem to require expensive tools just for
>>> servicing. It really is a shame that Campagnolo stopped making
>>> such hubs.
>> Did I mis something? What is wrong with 32H Record hubs? I don't
>> understand the fixation on (silver) 36H hubs. For about 170-180
>> euro you have a front and rear Record hub. Maybe an investment buy
>> IMO still a great deal for a outstanding hub that last for years
>> and easy to maintain.
> Four extra spokes in the rear wheel provides desirable extra
> reliability or redundancy for one of the most vulnerable parts of
> the bike (the rear wheel), with the only downside being a trivial
> amount of extra weight and drag. I agree with Peter. It is a big
> shame that Campagnolo has stopped making 36h road hubs, and any
> cheaper-than-Record hubs. The Chorus was my favourite.
> If you think 32 spokes is enough for your rear wheel, it's too many
> for your front. So do you use 28 or 24-spoke front wheels?
That fewer spokes will do is not a new idea, overly weight conscious
riders have always sought wheels with fewer spokes requiring heavier
rims and taking less reliability as natural. Today wheels are not
expected to last until their braking surfaces are worn thin in about
10k miles or more.
Rear wheels may seem to have more load but that comes from their
frailty through asymmetry to accommodate more and more gears. Radial
and side loads are no less in front wheels that do hard braking on
rough mountain road descents and are side loaded when climbing while
standing. Cracked rims occur more often from too few spokes and
because few have sockets and eyelets to support spokes on both inner
and outer rim beds.
Today, a sense that 36 spokes is old fashioned makes riders want newer
wheels with fewer and unconventional lacing/spacing patterns. When
all wheels had 36 spokes except those ridding short term on smooth
velodromes, no one heard of the sudden total wheel failures common
today.
I hope riders will review their reasons for buying fragile and
expensive wheels, recognizing that there are more important goals to
achieve than riding exotic components to win a local bike race. I
believe there are better ways to appreciate physical endurance on a
self propelled vehicle than competition.
Jobst Brandt
Jobst Brandt
>>> 7800 (which are still plentiful, unsold in the channel) are
>>> 10-speed only due to their aluminum freehub body. 7850 and 7900
>>> have Ti bodies and are 8/9/10 compatible.
>> That's correct.
>>> 7800 also had the bearings inboard of the FH body, making the axle
>>> very slightly less-well-supported.
>> On paper, looks like a bad idea. However, in reality, not that
>> much of an issue. The 7800 with the inboard bearings is very, very
>> similar to how Campy 9/10 oversized axle hubs are designed and you
>> just don't hear of axles breaking on those hubs. They may, but for
>> whatever reason, news of its demise just doesn't seem to be
>> reported.
> No argument. As I said, "very slightly." I almost said
> "nominally."
> The freehub body offers a reasonable amount of support just by
> surrounding the axle, as opposed to a screw-on freewheel body not
> contacting the axle at all, unless something is very, very wrong.
The reason they are far stronger is that, for instance, Shimano
Cassette hubs have axle bearings at the end of the Cassette, avoiding
overhang that gives greater leverage to break axles when using the
smallest sprocket. I stopped using Campagnolo RECORD freewheel hubs
for this reason because they broke axles often, and in doing so, broke
my right dropout in half a couple of times.
Jobst Brandt
someone
> a shy person wrote:
> > cheaper-than-Record hubs. The Chorus was my favourite.
> > If you think 32 spokes is enough for your rear wheel, it's too many
> > for your front. So do you use 28 or 24-spoke front wheels?
> Rear wheels may seem to have more load but that comes from their
> frailty through asymmetry to accommodate more and more gears.
They do have more load. Using a stiffer rear wheel results in
improved stabilty, important for sweeping fast corners. Front wheel
stiffness is more about resistance to lateral forces on turn in hence
the wider spaced flange. A good wheel build means 28 spoke wheels are
perfectly servicable items even over rough ground. To compare spoke
support it is necessay to consider relative cross sectional area,
length and bracing as well as spoke number. Metal rims do not require
super high numbers of spokes like wooden rims, they do not suffer from
atmospheric warpage (neither do laminated wood rims). The only
necessity to use high spoke numbers is for extreme loading or when
minimising wheel weight by using a lightweight rim with relatively
poor lateral stability. Comparison of lateral stability with
expected radial load is the only real test of a wheels worth.
> Radial
> and side loads are no less in front wheels that do hard braking on
> rough mountain road descents and are side loaded when climbing while
> standing.
Ignor side load on a front wheel when standing because weight is
shifted to the rear sufficiently that front wheel lift may occur so
making this irelevant.
Cracked rims occur more often from too few spokes and
> because few have sockets and eyelets to support spokes on both inner
> and outer rim beds.
Bad wheel build using too high a spoke tension. A good wheel build
will use an appropriate spoke tension with nipple washers on builds
that require them. Eyelets are wasteful and serve only the machine
built wheel whickh is automatically tensioned using a fixed torque
screwdriver head. Most ferrules are excess weight and only serve to
encourage overly tight spokes resulting in buckle prone wheels.
>
> Today, a sense that 36 spokes is old fashioned makes riders want newer
> wheels with fewer and unconventional lacing/spacing patterns. When
> all wheels had 36 spokes except those ridding short term on smooth
> velodromes, no one heard of the sudden total wheel failures common
> today.
Never occured. 27" metal rimmed wheels have always been available in
28 spoke configuration and up to 48 spoke for the fashionable.
Sudden wheel failure, either buckling or split rims is due to overly
tight spokes. Metal rims are happy enough on fewer spokes. It would
not surprise me if the new wooden laminate rims are also happpy with
24 spokes. Rim support is by spoke gauge and number for any given
combination of hub and rim. Pre-tension of high order will destroy a
rim when used and is reduced by using a proper build technique.
>
> I hope riders will review their reasons for buying fragile and
> expensive wheels, recognizing that there are more important goals to
> achieve than riding exotic components to win a local bike race.
Fragile, exotic and expensive are what most of the cafe crew are
about.
Sandy
selected its market long ago and does not pretend to make stuff for
everyone or every market. It is obvious for already a long time that
the pre-built wheel trend has gutted the profitability for Campy of
making a wide selection of hubs for a limited market. Buggy whips are
not gone, but the firms producing them are few.
No one seems to demand that White or HOPE or other companies to make
broad spectra of aftermarket parts. Shimano makes good stuff. Campy
makes good expensive stuff. If the Campy selection doesn't satisfy, go
for another brand. The only disadvantage left is getting replacement
parts from those manufacturers.