About those facemasks you're wearing

[Tom Kunich]

https://www.technocracy.news/flashback-2016-face-masks-didnt-work-then-either/

[Tom Kunich]

On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 3:00:24 PM UTC-7, Tom Kunich wrote:
> https://www.technocracy.news/flashback-2016-face-masks-didnt-work-then-either/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/09/22/covid-kn-95-masks-imported-china-dont-meet-standards-ecri/5806327002/

[Tom Kunich]

Or you can just kill yourself https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/04/150422121724.htm

[Tom Kunich]

Both the FDA and the United Kingdom medical records show that the vaccines have killed more people than they saved. By all means put you own life in the hands of people like Fauci.

https://newsrescue.com/watch-bombshell-testimony-at-fda-vaccine-hearing-injections-killing-more-than-saving-driving-variants-re-all-cause-mortality/
https://www.winterwatch.net/2022/05/new-uk-government-data-shows-the-covid-vaccines-kill-more-people-than-they-save/

Why do you suppose all of the "factcheckers" are lying about this as fast as they can type?

[John B.]

On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 15:00:23 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>https://www.technocracy.news/flashback-2016-face-masks-didnt-work-then-either/

California Population - 39,512,223 Covid deaths - 93,150
Thailand Population - 70,152,662 Covid deaths - 31,053

The difference?
In Thailand you rarely see anyone without a mask.
In California you see Tommy.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

Yes, California has Tommy, who has repeatedly promised he will address only bicycling-related issues.
And violated the promise daily.

I suspect that total lack of self control has a lot to do with his never being in one job
for more than a few years. What's his longest employment? Something like three years?

- Frank Krygowski

[Sepp Ruf]

John B. wrote:

> California Population - 39,512,223 Covid deaths - 93,150
> Thailand Population - 70,152,662 Covid deaths - 31,053
>
> The difference?
> In Thailand you rarely see anyone without a mask.
> In California you see Tommy.

Bullshit Cal. stats; bullshit masking; bullshit use of stats.

John, when you aren't seeing your wife rolling her eyes, you don't see
anything other than CNN Asia. It has long been obvious that you are
demented. In all likelihood, you never even had a scientific mindset
during your brain's prime. The only factors that propelled you beyond
something like a 19th century sawmill worker were the jet age and the
petrodollar.

<https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FW1g7J-X0AEJLOc?format=jpg&name=4096x4096>
In Switzerland, no masking mandates since mid-February, two weeks later,
hardly anyone wearing one any more. By contrast, the direct heirs of
the Reich. Take a Train from Brussels to Cologne? Behave normally, then,
at the German border, obey the orders and pull up the mask.

--
"Up your game and stand up and resist! Resist first within yourselves
against giving in to fear and then resist publicly against the policies
of tyranny which are coming again."
- Dr. Vladimir Zelenko 1973 - 2022

[John B.]

On Thu, 21 Jul 2022 11:36:43 +0200, Sepp Ruf <inq...@Safe-mail.net>
wrote:

>John B. wrote:
>
>> California Population - 39,512,223 Covid deaths - 93,150
>> Thailand Population - 70,152,662 Covid deaths - 31,053
>>
>> The difference?
>> In Thailand you rarely see anyone without a mask.
>> In California you see Tommy.
>
>Bullshit Cal. stats; bullshit masking; bullshit use of stats.
>
>John, when you aren't seeing your wife rolling her eyes, you don't see
>anything other than CNN Asia. It has long been obvious that you are
>demented. In all likelihood, you never even had a scientific mindset
>during your brain's prime. The only factors that propelled you beyond
>something like a 19th century sawmill worker were the jet age and the
>petrodollar.
>

I see.... Actual facts confuse you, is that the problem? Or is it
reality?

As for sawmills... yes, we had on a project I managed in a remote area
of Indonesia so I guess I'd have to admit that you were, well, rather
remotely accurate. (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Lou Holtman]

You only have to look what people wear as masks and how they wear it to know that any comparison or interpretation of statistics is useless.
BTW did the Germans bothered you in any way?

Lou

[Tom Kunich]

I've misplaced the citation now but the microscopic tests on the cloth and paper masks showed that the holes were much larger than 1 um. A corona virus is 0.03 um. Contrary to the "factcheck" sites, the virus is airborne and is spread simply by floating about in clouds around an infected person and not through the mucus in a cough or sneeze which the paper might absorb.

As I stated many times, masks started being use circa 1880 and studies on them were widely done because of the 1918 Spanish flu epidemic that killed thousands of people. NONE of the studies showed masks stopping the spread of the Spanish Flu which is caused also by a corona virus. Masks have not improved since that time because you HAVE to breath through them and that sets a lower limit to the pore size. And that is usually around 200 times larger than the virus people seem to think it will stop.

[Steve Weeks]

On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 11:54:52 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> the Spanish Flu which is caused also by a corona virus.

The "Spanish Flu" is caused by an influenza virus, which is from a different family (Orthomyxoviridae) than the coronaviruses (Coronaviridae).

[Tom Kunich]

I don't know how many times you have to repeat that before I remember it. The influenza viruses are about 3 to 4 times larger than the covid-19 virus but they are generally of the same architecture and since masks do not stop an influenza virus why could they be expected to stop a small virus?

[Sepp Ruf]

Lou Holtman wrote:

> BTW did the Germans bother you in any way?

Since 2020, I've hardly used German public transport. During this time,
never was I officially bothered when I was riding a bicycle by myself.
Escaping riot police cordons forming around last winter's pedestrian
window shoppers involved more luck and tactical awareness.


--
Masks in a French TGV, in France, are not obligatory. German unhappy
<https://moritz-kirchner.de/politische-gedanken-zur-sommerpause/> (I
doubt MK would have said a word had the young female been in the company
of male brutes.)

[Frank Krygowski]

On 7/21/2022 12:54 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
> I've misplaced the citation now but the microscopic tests on the cloth and paper masks showed that the holes were much larger than 1 um. A corona virus is 0.03 um.

You don't understand the physics of filtration any better than you
understand viruses. Which is not surprising.

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/31252/filtration-particles-capture

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/06/11/fact-check-n-95-filters-not-too-large-stop-covid-19-particles/5343537002/

https://www.hamilton-medical.com/en_US/E-Learning-and-Education/Knowledge-Base/Knowledge-Base-Detail~2020-03-18~Efficiency-of-HEPA-filters~d5358f88-753e-4644-91c6-5c7b862e941f~.html



I know you hate fact check sites. You'd prefer everyone check their
facts only with Tom Kunich. That's not going to happen, Tom. Nobody
believes you.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[John B.]

Your theories are all well and good but that what does it have to do
with the fact that California has so many Covid deaths and Thailand
relatively few? 1 death per 424 people in California and 1 deaths per
2,259 people in Thailand

I've pointed to masks as one possible difference but you argue it
isn't so tell us Tommy, why so many Covid deaths in California?

Are y'all genetically inferior to the "Little Brown People" here?
Mentally inferior.? Tell us Tommy, why so many deaths?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

But Tommy, surgical masks aren't intended to protect you from
others... they are intended to protect others from you. All that
spittle and slobbering down your chin while you are parading up and
down the street screaming and shouting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surgical_mask
"A surgical mask, also known by other names such as a medical face
mask or procedure mask, is a personal protective equipment used by
healthcare professionals that serves as a mechanical barrier that
interferes with direct airflow in and out of respiratory orifices
(i.e. nose and mouth). This helps reduce airborne transmission of
pathogens and other aerosolized contaminants between the wearer and
nearby people via respiratory droplets ejected when sneezing,
coughing, forceful expiration or unintentionally spitting when
talking, etc"

You really are a silly shit, aren't you.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

ST-900

https://www.ebay.com/itm/304571383530?hash=item46e9de7eea:g:PCYAAOSw5T9i0KsJ&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5337240127&customid=1&toolid=10049

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 21 Jul 2022 09:54:50 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>I've misplaced the citation now but the microscopic tests on the cloth and paper masks showed that the holes were much larger than 1 um. A corona virus is 0.03 um. Contrary to the "factcheck" sites, the virus is airborne and is spread simply by floating about in clouds around an infected person and not through the mucus in a cough or sneeze which the paper might absorb.

Genuine N95 masks contain an electret layer, which is basically a
capacitor. The capacitor is charged during manufacture and remains
charged for the stated life of the mask, typically 2 to 3 days of use.
It's similar to an electrostatic precipitator on an industrial
incinerator smoke stack, which attracts and traps small combustion
particles such as soot (PM 2.5) and dust (PM 10) by electrostatic
attraction.

Similar to the electrostatic precipitator, the voltage across an
electret capacitor attracts particles, aerosols, and droplets. Like
the smoke stack, the caliber of the smoke stack is much larger than
the soot particles trapped by the electrostatic precipitator or the
aerosols trapped by the electret capacitor. The virus simply hitches
a ride on the surface of the aerosol or droplets.

After 2 to 3 days of use, the voltage in the electret decreases,
rendering the N95 mask useless. There's no easy way to recharge the
electret.

I seem to have misplaced the links to citations, sources,
substantiations, research reports, and product data sheets. You
should be able to find my original source material yourself using
something other than Google, Wikipedia, and various fact check sites.


--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

https://www.webmd.com/lung/coronavirus-transmission-overview#1
Person-to-Person Transmission
Experts believe the virus that causes COVID-19 spreads mainly from person to person. There are several ways this can happen:

Droplets or aerosols. This is the most common transmission. When an infected person coughs, sneezes, or talks, droplets or tiny particles called aerosols carry the virus into the air from their nose or mouth. Anyone who is within 6 feet of that person can breathe it into their lungs.

Airborne transmission. Research shows that the virus can live in the air for up to 3 hours. It can get into your lungs if someone who has it breathes out and you breathe that air in. Experts are divided on how often the virus spreads through the airborne route and how much it contributes to the pandemic.

Tommy is 100% wrong. Again.

[Tom Kunich]

I suggest you actually read your own citations before smuggly citing them as some sort of victory. You simply show everyone why you became a teacher. Or perhaps you did and aren't smart enough to understand them.

[Frank Krygowski]

If you have specific questions ask them. If you have specific
disagreements with those articles, state them with evidence for your views.

Otherwise go back to trying to piece together yet another frankenbike
that nobody wants to buy from you.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Radey Shouman]

I've got a specific question. Can you point me to a specification on a
respirator, N95 or any other, that says anything about filtration on
*exhaled* air?

[John B.]

Try
https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/coronavirus-covid-19-and-medical-devices/face-masks-barrier-face-coverings-surgical-masks-and-respirators-covid-19
In part
" Face masks and barrier face coverings should generally be used for
source control, meaning they may help prevent people who have COVID-19
from spreading the virus to others. "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surgical_mask
A surgical mask, also known by other names such as a medical face mask
or procedure mask, is a personal protective equipment used by
healthcare professionals that serves as a mechanical barrier that
interferes with direct airflow in and out of respiratory orifices
(i.e. nose and mouth). This helps reduce airborne transmission of
pathogens and other aerosolized contaminants between the wearer and
nearby people via respiratory droplets ejected when sneezing,
coughing, forceful expiration or unintentionally spitting when

talking, etc.
https://primed.com/resources/astm-mask-protection-standards/


--
Cheers,

John B.

[Tom Kunich]

What I had were separate trigger shifters and brake levers. Maybe it was a 9-speed setup. Yeah, here they are: https://www.ebay.com/itm/295108156653?hash=item44b5d11ced:g:P70AAOSwkUpi2-PH

[Tom Kunich]

Frank has to show his idiocy. A corona virus is nothing more than a marble that will NOT stick to anything that isn't DNA. He thinks that you can FILTER them out of an airstream using simple mechanical filtration methods. Only a stupid jackass that doesn't know anything at all about organic substances make the sort of claims he does. Over 100 years of studying masks hasn't shown him a thing. So why do they wear masks in an operating room? So that they don't COUGH or SNEEZE directly into an open wound or incision. Most doctors themselves don't know anything about the reasons they are wearing masks and Frank would have you believe that because they have a Dr. in front of their names they are the source of all wisdom. My step-daughter is about to get a Dr. in front of her name as a physical therapist with a PhD. Not because of the PhD but because it is in a medical field.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 23 Jul 2022 16:33:54 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>A corona virus is nothing more than a marble that will NOT stick to anything that isn't DNA.

The corona virus does a wonderful job of sticking to water aerosols
and droplets as well as mucous membranes.

>He thinks that you can FILTER them out of an airstream using simple mechanical filtration methods.

If you actually read the literature on how an N95 mask operates, you
might notice that the electret layer filters out the virus using
electrostatic attraction, much like an electrostatic precipitator
filters out dust and soot from a chimney.

Sorry, but I seem to have lost the links to my sources for this
information. You'll just have to believe me because I'm always right.

>My step-daughter is about to get a Dr. in front of her name as a
physical therapist with a PhD. Not because of the PhD but because it
is in a medical field.

"Professional Title Etiquette: When to Use Your Dr. Title"
<https://emilypost.com/advice/professional-titles>

"Are Physical Therapists Doctors?"
<https://www.prnpt.com/Blog/Posts/60/Pro-Active/2020/1/Are-Physical-Therapists-Doctors/blog-post/>
"We can start off by saying physical therapists are not discount
doctors."
"The guidelines state that physical therapists, in all clinical
settings, who hold a doctor of physical therapy degree (DPT), shall
indicate they are physical therapists when using the title "Doctor" or
"Dr," and shall use the titles in accord with jurisdictional law. So,
since 2015, physical therapists are doctors, but they’re not
physicians."

[Radey Shouman]

None of those links say anything specific enough about the actual
standards, for which one has to pay. The last one does discuss
filtration effectiveness very generally, but it doesn't really go into
how this is measured. It's not clear to me whether the tests are on a
complete mask on a simulated face or just on the e mask material in some
sort of fixture.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 22 Jul 2022 20:21:12 -0400, Radey Shouman
<sho...@comcast.net> wrote:

>I've got a specific question. Can you point me to a specification on a
>respirator, N95 or any other, that says anything about filtration on
>*exhaled* air?

Good question. I did some searching and didn't find any research
papers that seperately tested inhaled and exhaled filtration
efficiency. However, I did find one survey article that goes a long
way to explain how N95 and other masks work, which includes some
mention of air flow direction.

An overview of Filtration aerosols penetration
Article  in  Bioactive Materials · September 2020
<https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Abbas-Tcharkhtchi/publication/344380305_An_overview_of_filtration_efficiency_through_the_masks_Mechanisms_of_the_aerosols_penetration/links/5f6e3ee2a6fdcc00863c9577/An-overview-of-filtration-efficiency-through-the-masks-Mechanisms-of-the-aerosols-penetration.pdf>
18 pages. 4MB

I suggest you run key word searches for "electret" and "exhale". There
are also several references in the References section which point to
comments on directional filtration efficiency. Item #18 looks
interesting, but I haven't read it yet.

"Respiratory virus shedding in exhaled breath and efficacy of face
masks" (Apr 3, 2020)
<https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0843-2>
"There is little information on the efficacy of face masks in
filtering respiratory viruses and reducing viral release from an
individual with respiratory infections[8], and most research has
focused on influenza."

I'll dig some more later this week.

[Radey Shouman]

I'll try to read your links, thanks. But I guess that they don't deal
with actual *specifications* -- things that can be tested by documented
procedures, and warranted to customers. My suspicion is that there is no
specification for respirators filtering particles out of exhaled air,
because they're designed to filter inhaled air. But I would be happy to
be proven wrong.

N95 respirator fit is commonly user-tested by verifying that outside
smells cannot be detected. This is surprisingly difficult to achieve in
practice, but it tests only filtration on air *in*, not *out*.

[John B.]

On Tue, 26 Jul 2022 21:47:56 -0400, Radey Shouman

See
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7684679/
for details
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Tom Kunich]

Jeff is used to reaching half ass conclusions with no data.

[Sepp Ruf]

Radey Shouman wrote:

> N95 respirator fit is commonly user-tested by verifying that outside
> smells cannot be detected. This is surprisingly difficult to achieve in
> practice, but it tests only filtration on air *in*, not *out*.

Putting more chemicals in the mask to drown outside smells "helps," as
does fitting to pinch the nostrils.

Surprisingly, this table[1]
<https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/sites/default/files/public/mask_commentary_pt_1_table_1-022122.jpg>
assumes outward leakage percentage to be the same as inward leakage:
20% for N95, 10% if fit-tested. Suspiciously even figures also in the
rest of the table, but hey, what else would I expect from Minnesota,
where Rolf studied, and the home of 3M.com?

Of course, it's similarly corru^Wfallacious to focus on one desirable
characteristic of a filter device than to draw conclusions about hats
from the shock absorbing characteristics of foams.

[1]
<https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/10/commentary-what-can-masks-do-part-1-science-behind-covid-19-protection>

--
"A cashier is not an idiot per se, but often behaves like one after
learning she is not paid for marketing research."
- N.N., overpaid ad exec

[Tom Kunich]

Notice that one of the very first things that are made clear is that I was entirely correct from the first day I spoke about masks - that SARS-Cov-2 is transmitted via aerosols and NOT via large droplets.

This was entirely denied by the stupid six who each and everyone of them have extensive experience in the medical field. We had that ass Frank who fancies himself a real engineer providing us all sorts of citations to mechanical filtrations because he is an expert on that as well. Table 1 is also pure unadulterated bullshit because aerosols of virions are virtually impossible to block and none of these masks has even been shown to effectively block even bacteria over these periods of time. IF you can breath through it you can be almost instantly infected by virions through it.

My point is that JUST as we've seen everyone regardless of face coverings has been exposed and those whose immune response is retarded have contracted the illness. It isn't whether SARS-Cov-2 is infectious - it is whether or not it is dangerous and it is overwhelmingly not safe for a vanishingly small percentage of the population. FAR less than a bad flu season. This was demonstrated perfectly by the statistical data from North-East Italy.

What has this cost? People do not have the slightest idea what a lock down means. Children's immune systems are developing. Locking them down for more than a day or two starts a degradation of their immune system which is showing up now and some strange forms of hepatitis that are not caused by anything other than crippled immune system. These additional infections are caused by reduction in immune response with covid-19 infections. This allows infections from the thousands of adenoviruses and this can cause very unusual forms of hepatitis almost entirely in younger children. This is EXTREMELY serious since there are no drugs for unknown infections and the time to develop drugs for these can be a very long and drawn out process.

WHO and most importantly Fauci are incompetent idiots who should be listened to not at all. The CDC statistics department was ALL that the CDC was supposed to be. Instead if became a public forum for an ignorant fool who has called every single thing he ever said about public health wrong.

I am not medically trained and I have called every single thing I've been involved in correctly and that has been proven time and time again. This is NOT because I am smarter in these matters than trained medical personnel, but because they tend to go with the flow or be considered wrong or develop a reputation as a contrarian. You don't get references as a contrarian. In private conversations these people often say things that would be in agreement with me. I said that I had a conversation with a surgeon that worked in Africa with Doctors Without Borders and that they don't even bother with masks in operating rooms because they don't prevent infections even with bacterial illnesses.

I have 50 years in the engineering game and 40 of it working as an engineer at the highest levels. I tend to call a spade a spade. That is why I have been hired to complete complex projects in the medical and laboratory trace fields.

Exactly why would I say that viral diseases are almost always spread by aerosols or that masks cannot stop them if that wasn't the case?

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 27 Jul 2022 07:32:41 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Jeff is used to reaching half ass conclusions with no data.

You have reached Jeff's Self Abuse Support Clinic. The clinic is
closed for the day and Jeff will be unavailable to provide any
scheduled abuse. If this is an emergency, please open the envelope
containing the 60 minutes of continuous insults, degradations, and
verbal abuse CDROM. This should help while you wait for the office to
re-open tomorrow. If this is critical, please open the envelope
containing 4 hours of misery, despair, failure, criticism, financial
news and political updates to make you feel lousy DVD. Be sure to
play both sides of the DVD. These should be sufficient to stabilize
your condition until Jeff can return and provide you with professional
attention. If it makes you feel better, please leave a rant after the
beep. (Beep)

[Radey Shouman]

Sepp Ruf <inq...@Safe-mail.net> writes:

> Radey Shouman wrote:
>
>> N95 respirator fit is commonly user-tested by verifying that outside
>> smells cannot be detected. This is surprisingly difficult to achieve in
>> practice, but it tests only filtration on air *in*, not *out*.
>
> Putting more chemicals in the mask to drown outside smells "helps," as
> does fitting to pinch the nostrils.
>
> Surprisingly, this table[1]
> <https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/sites/default/files/public/mask_commentary_pt_1_table_1-022122.jpg>
> assumes outward leakage percentage to be the same as inward leakage:
> 20% for N95, 10% if fit-tested. Suspiciously even figures also in the
> rest of the table, but hey, what else would I expect from Minnesota,
> where Rolf studied, and the home of 3M.com?

I do find that surprising. When inhaling the mask is forced against the
face by the pressure differential across the filter material, improving
the seal. When exhaling the mask is pushed away, degrading the seal.

> Of course, it's similarly corru^Wfallacious to focus on one desirable
> characteristic of a filter device than to draw conclusions about hats
> from the shock absorbing characteristics of foams.
>
> [1]
> <https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/10/commentary-what-can-masks-do-part-1-science-behind-covid-19-protection>

[1] includes the statement:

There remains no standard method for testing *outward* leakage (source
control) for any mask or respirator. Despite numerous studies
throughout the pandemic, very few have used appropriate testing
methods.

[Tom Kunich]

In that article is showed not outward leakage of virions but of moisture which can be lit with some colors of light. Ot worse yet IR detection of the warm air. So you're correct that silly article really didn't have any honest references to outward leakage. And if they leak outward, they leak also inward. The rule to follow is that if a mask can be breathed through, it will pass virions just like an open door. Since there isn't any way of showing a virus save under an electron microscope and only in SOME cases these studies are using very indirect means of proving worth. And in most cases the selection is poor.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 9:46:13 AM UTC-5, Sepp Ruf wrote:
> Radey Shouman wrote:
>
> > N95 respirator fit is commonly user-tested by verifying that outside
> > smells cannot be detected. This is surprisingly difficult to achieve in
> > practice, but it tests only filtration on air *in*, not *out*.
> Putting more chemicals in the mask to drown outside smells "helps," as
> does fitting to pinch the nostrils.
>
> Surprisingly, this table[1]
> <https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/sites/default/files/public/mask_commentary_pt_1_table_1-022122.jpg>
> assumes outward leakage percentage to be the same as inward leakage:
> 20% for N95, 10% if fit-tested. Suspiciously even figures also in the
> rest of the table, but hey, what else would I expect from Minnesota,
> where Rolf studied, and the home of 3M.com?

Minnesota, specifically Rochester, MN, is where the Mayo Clinic is also located. One of the most highly regarded, if not the highest, medical institutions in the world.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 11:52:55 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 7:46:13 AM UTC-7, Sepp Ruf wrote:
> > Radey Shouman wrote:
> >
> > > N95 respirator fit is commonly user-tested by verifying that outside
> > > smells cannot be detected. This is surprisingly difficult to achieve in
> > > practice, but it tests only filtration on air *in*, not *out*.
> > Putting more chemicals in the mask to drown outside smells "helps," as
> > does fitting to pinch the nostrils.
> >
> > Surprisingly, this table[1]
> > <https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/sites/default/files/public/mask_commentary_pt_1_table_1-022122.jpg>
> > assumes outward leakage percentage to be the same as inward leakage:
> > 20% for N95, 10% if fit-tested. Suspiciously even figures also in the
> > rest of the table, but hey, what else would I expect from Minnesota,
> > where Rolf studied, and the home of 3M.com?
> >
> > Of course, it's similarly corru^Wfallacious to focus on one desirable
> > characteristic of a filter device than to draw conclusions about hats
> > from the shock absorbing characteristics of foams.
> >
> > [1]
> > <https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/10/commentary-what-can-masks-do-part-1-science-behind-covid-19-protection>
> >
> > --
> > "A cashier is not an idiot per se, but often behaves like one after
> > learning she is not paid for marketing research."
> > - N.N., overpaid ad exec
> Notice that one of the very first things that are made clear is that I was entirely correct from the first day I spoke about masks - that SARS-Cov-2 is transmitted via aerosols and NOT via large droplets.
>

Tommy is wrong again. Anyone shocked?
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/how-covid-spreads.html
COVID-19 is spread in three main ways:
-Breathing in air when close to an infected person who is exhaling small droplets and particles that contain the virus.
-Having these small droplets and particles that contain virus land on the eyes, nose, or mouth, especially through splashes and sprays like a cough or sneeze.
-Touching eyes, nose, or mouth with hands that have the virus on them.

Tommy is even wrong about the size of the droplets. CDC says small droplets. Tommy says large droplets.

> This was entirely denied by the stupid six who each and everyone of them have extensive experience in the medical field. We had that ass Frank who fancies himself a real engineer providing us all sorts of citations to mechanical filtrations because he is an expert on that as well. Table 1 is also pure unadulterated bullshit because aerosols of virions are virtually impossible to block and none of these masks has even been shown to effectively block even bacteria over these periods of time. IF you can breath through it you can be almost instantly infected by virions through it.
>
> My point is that JUST as we've seen everyone regardless of face coverings has been exposed and those whose immune response is retarded have contracted the illness. It isn't whether SARS-Cov-2 is infectious - it is whether or not it is dangerous and it is overwhelmingly not safe for a vanishingly small percentage of the population. FAR less than a bad flu season. This was demonstrated perfectly by the statistical data from North-East Italy.
>
> What has this cost? People do not have the slightest idea what a lock down means. Children's immune systems are developing. Locking them down for more than a day or two starts a degradation of their immune system which is showing up now and some strange forms of hepatitis that are not caused by anything other than crippled immune system. These additional infections are caused by reduction in immune response with covid-19 infections. This allows infections from the thousands of adenoviruses and this can cause very unusual forms of hepatitis almost entirely in younger children. This is EXTREMELY serious since there are no drugs for unknown infections and the time to develop drugs for these can be a very long and drawn out process.
>
> WHO and most importantly Fauci are incompetent idiots who should be listened to not at all. The CDC statistics department was ALL that the CDC was supposed to be.

Statistics department? Not according to the CDC itself. Here is its mission statement.
https://www.cdc.gov/about/organization/mission.htm#:~:text=As%20the%20nation%27s%20health%20protection,and%20responds%20when%20these%20arise.
"As the nation’s health protection agency, CDC saves lives and protects people from health threats. To accomplish our mission, CDC conducts critical science and provides health information that protects our nation against expensive and dangerous health threats, and responds when these arise."

> Instead if became a public forum for an ignorant fool who has called every single thing he ever said about public health wrong.
>
> I am not medically trained and I have called every single thing I've been involved in correctly and that has been proven time and time again.

Tommy, don't you mean its been DISPROVEN time and time again.

> This is NOT because I am smarter in these matters than trained medical personnel, but because they tend to go with the flow or be considered wrong or develop a reputation as a contrarian. You don't get references as a contrarian. In private conversations these people often say things that would be in agreement with me. I said that I had a conversation with a surgeon that worked in Africa with Doctors Without Borders and that they don't even bother with masks in operating rooms because they don't prevent infections even with bacterial illnesses.
>
> I have 50 years in the engineering game and 40 of it working as an engineer at the highest levels.

Tommy, why do you continue with your fantasy. You are not an engineer. You have never been an engineer. Engineers are educated. You are not.

> I tend to call a spade a spade. That is why I have been hired to complete complex projects in the medical and laboratory trace fields.
>
> Exactly why would I say that viral diseases are almost always spread by aerosols or that masks cannot stop them if that wasn't the case?

Because you Tommy are a liar? And make up nonsense and fantasies for enjoyment I guess.

[John B.]

Yes.... of course....

But tell us Tommy, why did California have such a tremendously large
death rate due to Covid then countries where mask wearing was
mandated?

California death rate 2368/1 million population
Thailand death rate 446/1 million

But, of course, you won't respond to this question as it doesn't agree
with your preconceived fantasies and thus can't possibly be correct.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Sepp Ruf]

Tom Kunich wrote:

> This is NOT because I am smarter in these matters than trained
> medical personnel, but because they tend to go with the flow or be
> considered wrong or develop a reputation as a contrarian. You don't
> get references as a contrarian. In private conversations these people
> often say things that would be in agreement with me. I said that I
> had a conversation with a surgeon that worked in Africa with Doctors
> Without Borders and that they don't even bother with masks in
> operating rooms because they don't prevent infections even with
> bacterial illnesses.

Yesterday, I spoke to someone about his insights working with a major
neurosurgery unit at ... somewhere between Berlin and Bergamo. There
appears to be a real mess with recurrent bleedings and completely
unusual soups in the brains of the Pfizerspike-shot cases they operate.
But (almost) no one is trying to find out what's going on, or relate
symptoms to an individual's spikings history. Instead of the formerly
real compassion, staff are now just shrugging their shoulders when they
lose another patient. As if they had merely been playing Russian
roulette. (They sort of did, but not using revolvers.) I asked a few
questions about observations during the early 2021 phase when many
elderly guinea pigs "vulnerable patients" would already have gotten
spiked, but not their surgeons. Alas, there was no such time period for
thought processes to set in: The authoritarian-structured surgeons and
professors had eagerly been pushing to be first in line, or at least
second, to receive the experimental mrna junk in December 2020, and January.

BTW, there is at least some hope that John might have to tone down his
unwarranted Thai chest-beating:
<https://coconuts.co/bangkok/news/thai-health-minister-contracts-covid-19/>
<https://i0.wp.com/tkp.at/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/AusThaiNZ-Nig.png>

[Andre Jute]

On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 3:46:13 PM UTC+1, Sepp Ruf wrote:
>
> - N.N., overpaid ad exec
>

There are no overpaid ad executives. I spent seven years in advertising, on and off, and even when I was the best-paid man in advertising, I was underpaid. Nothing can compensate one for having to associate daily with such insincere people. It was almost worse than associating with the scum on rec.audio.tubes and rec.bicycles.tech, but at least advertising people are amusing, which you can't say for Krygowski's wannabe bullyboys, dimbos who never reach past grim. -- AJ
>

[Tom Kunich]

The group that you can never expect the slightest hint of truth from is Krygowski, Seaton, Flunky, Scharf, Liebermann and stinky Slocum whose entire knowledge comes from his ability to use Google and his inability to tell the truth from the lies that he loves to utter because I am opposed to the lies he tells. Can you imagine Slocum shooting in competition? All of the good shooters are large men because smaller people like Slocum are afraid of the recoil of a .30 caliber rifle.

[AMuzi]

??

My girlfriend's father and grandfather were skinny men about
5'6" and fed their families with .30WIN - not many rounds,
either, a box of ammo being the rare and coveted 'cash money'.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Tom Kunich]

I don't know how much hunting you've done but in my experience you shoot game at surprisingly close range from a blind or stumbling across them. That is all kinds of different from trying to hit a 2" circle at 300 yards. And altogether different from Slocum's talking about 1000 yards which is so far away that even in a scope the entire target is hidden behind the ridicule. I've shot at those sorts of distances and know just how difficult it is. Your damned heartbeat throws your aim off and you have to learn to pull the trigger between heart beats. You are a good shot to even hit a 3' target. While I was concussed all of my guns disappeared. That was a load of handguns, an over and under shotgun and a long range Winchester with a descent scope on it. From my younger brother's comments I think that he made me get rid of them but giving them to a gun shop in Oakland. He is one of these guys that is afraid of guns. I think I also had an M1A1 but am not sure about that. That is a 100 yard rifle.

So hunting for meat doesn't require you to shoot large guns at long distances. And turkey's being really stupid will walk right up to you when you're hunting them. You can almost step on a pheasant before they will jump. Deer will walk right up to you outside of the hunting season but are invisible during season. That's why you use a blind set just off of the deer path.

[Andre Jute]

A springbok is a small fast-skipping deer about 18 inches high. Where I come from, a really good shot can it with one shot over open sights from an ancient Lee-Metford at 150 yards and even a social shot is expected to hit it with two shots at fifty yards. Good biltong(American: jerky) but not very much of it per springbok.
>
Andre Jute
The Glorious 12th is coming!
>

[Tom Kunich]

Deer in hunting season are scarce. But big game - black and grizzly bears are in plain sight. Birds jump out from under you. That is why skeet was developed - so that the sudden appearance of something in the air doesn't dazzle you and prevent you from reacting. Squirrels, rabbits and the like are close and in plain sight.

The whole point is that hunting for the table is not target shooting.

[John B.]

As I think I've mentioned, my grand father has one box of 38-55
ammunition. That's 20 cartridges, that he said would probably last him
10 years, or so (:-) And they ate venison every year.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

We found and killed 175,667 of them in nine days last year:
https://dnr.wisconsin.gov/newsroom/release/51616

That's only by firearms. The bowhunters took another 38,997,
crossbows 58,352, youth license holders 5,075, muzzle
loaders (NFA) 6,583


"hunting...is not target shooting"

??? Who said it is?
Most targets don't move around much. Targets don't attack
unexpectedly either:

https://www.channel3000.com/firefighters-deputies-help-rescue-man-gored-by-buck-in-columbia-county/

(25 miles from here)

[John B.]

On Thu, 28 Jul 2022 13:28:08 +0200, Sepp Ruf <inq...@Safe-mail.net>
wrote:

It is not "Thai chest beating" it is simply that I live here and thus
details are more available then for instance what is happening in East
Afghanistan.

As for the Health Minister contracting Covid... apparently it happened
in Europe somewhere (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 11:14:19 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 8:43:06 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 7/28/2022 10:30 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > > On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 7:28:41 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> > >> On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 3:46:13 PM UTC+1, Sepp Ruf wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>> - N.N., overpaid ad exec
> > >>>
> > >> There are no overpaid ad executives. I spent seven years in advertising, on and off, and even when I was the best-paid man in advertising, I was underpaid. Nothing can compensate one for having to associate daily with such insincere people. It was almost worse than associating with the scum on rec.audio.tubes and rec.bicycles.tech, but at least advertising people are amusing, which you can't say for Krygowski's wannabe bullyboys, dimbos who never reach past grim. -- AJ
> > >>>
> > > The group that you can never expect the slightest hint of truth from is Krygowski, Seaton, Flunky, Scharf, Liebermann and stinky Slocum whose entire knowledge comes from his ability to use Google and his inability to tell the truth from the lies that he loves to utter because I am opposed to the lies he tells. Can you imagine Slocum shooting in competition? All of the good shooters are large men because smaller people like Slocum are afraid of the recoil of a .30 caliber rifle.
> > >
> > ??
> >
> > My girlfriend's father and grandfather were skinny men about
> > 5'6" and fed their families with .30WIN - not many rounds,
> > either, a box of ammo being the rare and coveted 'cash money'.
> I don't know how much hunting you've done but in my experience you shoot game at surprisingly close range from a blind or stumbling across them. That is all kinds of different from trying to hit a 2" circle at 300 yards. And altogether different from Slocum's talking about 1000 yards which is so far away that even in a scope the entire target is hidden behind the ridicule.

Tommy, Tommy, Tommy. Why do you feel it is necessary to reinforce everyone's understanding of your stupidity with every single post you make on this bicycling forum? We already know you are uneducated and ignorant. No need to repetitively demonstrate it again and again.

RETICLE is the crosshairs, aiming point in a rifle scope.
https://www.targettamers.com/guides/rifle-scope-reticles/
"What is a Rifle Scope Reticle?
The reticle is the aiming point in your field of view in most rifle scopes. Also referred to as 'crosshairs' reticles are either glass etched or, most commonly, made out of wire."

Ridicule is what we do to you after your repeated erroneous mistakes and comments. It is also another name for a woman's small handbag. I did not know that.

> I've shot at those sorts of distances and know just how difficult it is.

Yet you misunderstand and misappropriate the terminology used for shooting. Strange. Do you call the shifters on a bicycle the doo wicky wacky thing a ma jigs that jump the chain up and down? Do you call brakes on bicycles the bark barkers that ping pong the spokes?

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

Can't speak to the hunting season part. But deer are everywhere in Iowa. Yesterday my brother and I were driving over to the other place and three of them were in the road ahead of us. Mom and two doe. My brother honked and cussed at them. Neither seemed effective. They eventually ran off the road and into the cornfields. On every drive everyday we seem to see a herd of deer running alongside or across the roads.

>
> That's only by firearms. The bowhunters took another 38,997,
> crossbows 58,352, youth license holders 5,075, muzzle
> loaders (NFA) 6,583

More crossbow kills than archery kills? Wonder if that's because there are more people using crossbows or because the archers miss more often?

>
>
> "hunting...is not target shooting"
>
> ??? Who said it is?
> Most targets don't move around much. Targets don't attack
> unexpectedly either:
>
> https://www.channel3000.com/firefighters-deputies-help-rescue-man-gored-by-buck-in-columbia-county/

Doubt that guy will be able to brag about his wound. Getting gored by the bulls in Pamplona is something to brag about. Maybe, once people stop questioning your stupidity of running with bulls on a city street. Getting gored by Bambi, not so much.

[John B.]

On Thu, 28 Jul 2022 17:50:03 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
<ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 11:14:19 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 8:43:06 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> > On 7/28/2022 10:30 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>> > > On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 7:28:41 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
>> > >> On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 3:46:13 PM UTC+1, Sepp Ruf wrote:
>> > >>>
>> > >>> - N.N., overpaid ad exec
>> > >>>
>> > >> There are no overpaid ad executives. I spent seven years in advertising, on and off, and even when I was the best-paid man in advertising, I was underpaid. Nothing can compensate one for having to associate daily with such insincere people. It was almost worse than associating with the scum on rec.audio.tubes and rec.bicycles.tech, but at least advertising people are amusing, which you can't say for Krygowski's wannabe bullyboys, dimbos who never reach past grim. -- AJ
>> > >>>
>> > > The group that you can never expect the slightest hint of truth from is Krygowski, Seaton, Flunky, Scharf, Liebermann and stinky Slocum whose entire knowledge comes from his ability to use Google and his inability to tell the truth from the lies that he loves to utter because I am opposed to the lies he tells. Can you imagine Slocum shooting in competition? All of the good shooters are large men because smaller people like Slocum are afraid of the recoil of a .30 caliber rifle.
>> > >
>> > ??
>> >
>> > My girlfriend's father and grandfather were skinny men about
>> > 5'6" and fed their families with .30WIN - not many rounds,
>> > either, a box of ammo being the rare and coveted 'cash money'.
>> I don't know how much hunting you've done but in my experience you shoot game at surprisingly close range from a blind or stumbling across them. That is all kinds of different from trying to hit a 2" circle at 300 yards. And altogether different from Slocum's talking about 1000 yards which is so far away that even in a scope the entire target is hidden behind the ridicule.
>
>Tommy, Tommy, Tommy. Why do you feel it is necessary to reinforce everyone's understanding of your stupidity with every single post you make on this bicycling forum? We already know you are uneducated and ignorant. No need to repetitively demonstrate it again and again.
>
>RETICLE is the crosshairs, aiming point in a rifle scope.
>https://www.targettamers.com/guides/rifle-scope-reticles/
>"What is a Rifle Scope Reticle?
>The reticle is the aiming point in your field of view in most rifle scopes. Also referred to as 'crosshairs' reticles are either glass etched or, most commonly, made out of wire."
>
>Ridicule is what we do to you after your repeated erroneous mistakes and comments. It is also another name for a woman's small handbag. I did not know that.

Poor old Tommy. He keeps talking and displaying his vast lack of
knowledge for all the world to see :-)

As an example... the "aiming circle", the black part of the target
that you aim at, on a 1,000 yard target is some 44 inches in diameter
and on the 300 yard target is 19 inches in diameter.

As for shooting game at close ranges, I am reminded of Elmer Keith's
shooting and killing an elk at 600 yards.... with a S&W model 29
revolver with a 6 inch barrel.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

I'm guessing here but a 100 lb pull Long Bow is about all the average
modern archer can handle, while a Cross Bow can be much more powerful,
as much as 200 lbs. for the average hunting Cross Bow, I believe.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

I discounted the force aspect. Kind of like whether you use a .223 Remington or a 300 Winchester Magnum to shoot a deer. You are going to kill it with either. Size of the hole is different. But maybe with a bow, how forcefully you hit the deer is important. Whether you kill it or just wound it and it runs away. I was focused on the accuracy only aspect. Use a crossbow, aimed like a gun, and hit the deer. Or use a bow, aimed like Robin Hood, and maybe miss the deer.

[John B.]

On Thu, 28 Jul 2022 19:08:20 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"

Well, pounds force of pull is indicative of the force that will propel
the arrow, and thus a good indication of the velocity of the arrow,
which in turn determines the range and striking force of the arrow.
So, yes it is important.

As for deer, certainly you can shoot them with almost any caliber, in
fact I has some sort of cousin who shot them, out of season, with a
.22 rim fire.

But shooting something with a high velocity firearm and shooting
something with an arrow are two very different things. An arrow
"stabs" the target, much like a knife, while modern high velocity
firearms not only "stab" a hole in the creature but do a significant
amount of damage due to shock waves caused by the high velocity
projectile hitting a comparatively soft substance.

--
Cheers,

John B.

[Andre Jute]

On Friday, July 29, 2022 at 2:01:45 AM UTC+1, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> Getting gored by the bulls in Pamplona is something to brag about. Maybe, once people stop questioning your stupidity of running with bulls on a city street.
>

You're such a provincial hick, Eaton or Seaton or WETF your name is. I've run with the bulls in Pamplona, and found them no more dangerous than racing ostriches which, if you fall off the front, will rip you open and perhaps impale you on a four-inch toenail at the end of a very muscular leg for force and long for leverage, if you can handle simple math. (I'm wearing the skin of an ostrich as a watch strap. It kicked an attendant open from his pelvis to his short rips. I scooped his intestines back from the dust into his stomach cavity with my hands a second before the trauma staff lifted him onto the stretcher. He survived but walked skew for the rest of his life.) One year in Pamplona there was another motor racer running, another year another offshore speedboat racer, and those are just the guys from my series that I recognised, and there was a prince, a demon bobsled racer, I hired to be, with his castle, the image of a beer I developed for a client, who at 40 was still running, and an American Air Force pilot who raced planes against me in navigation races. See, it's a bloodsport, and elite blood-sportsmen recognise it. A limp wimp from the accounts` department calling us stupid for finding a thrill even in a sport for working men is likely to meet with a short, sharp accident to his impertinence, for his impertinence.

>
>Getting gored by Bambi, not so much.
>

Yo, dingleberry, even a billygoat can gore you, and a pig can kill you with its teeth, and a kangaroo will kick you to death unless you look lively. Hell, there's an aggressive water rat heavier than you, the capybara, on which I'd bet against you any day of the week and twice on Sundays. You'd better stay in your bed unless you want to meet a fate beyond where statistics turn personal, as they always do for cowardly bullies like you.
>
Why don't you tell us what you've done in your miserable, safe little life that's worth speaking of?
>
Unsigned out of contempt for a narrow-minded jerk, and none too bright either.
>

[Andre Jute]

What you were focused on, moron, was trying to put Tom down, and missing by a mile because you don't know shit. We see several occurrences of your ignorance and spite every day, and it is tiresome. You're an embarrassment even to the gang of slime balls you run with, Seaton or Eaton or WETF your name is, and one of them even felt moved to write to me to apologise for you. I agree with him. Any gang that needs you is scraping raw gouges into the bottom of the barrel because even as scum you're useless.
>
Andre Jute
Lots of experience with netscum.
>

[AMuzi]

+1

Higher velocity = significantly flatter arc, more impact force:

https://www.wearethemighty.com/mighty-history/catholic-church-banned-crossbow-warfare/

[Tom Kunich]

Pertaining to the distance and required accuracy to hunt deer is the mention of bow hunting season. Not a lot of people bow hunt but the take is surprisingly large.

[Tom Kunich]

Poor little Seaton has done absolutely nothing in his life save attempt to belittle his betters. I have now plumbed the fact that he could not possibly have the degree he claimed. I wonder that he didn't spend his entire life as a ditch digger if he believes that the Transcontinental Railroad which only stretched half way across the country carried cattle! For HALF the cost they had access to cattle from the southern states.

The pure ignorance of virtually everything he posts about is so surprising you have to wonder that he couldn't even see it himself. I have a Di2 group so HE had one earlier. It doesn't matter that piece of junk was so poorly designed and didn't operate correctly and was replace the very next year, HE had one earlier. I have carbon fiber Colnagos. But suddenly he has carbon fiber too but his are better. I raced for awhile but he was successful though he has no documentation of the preposterous claim. My only claim was that I raced. So he had to beat that.

He had NO idea what I was talking about when I supplied mathematical proof that there is no climate change. But he could cite Michael Mann, the man who with full Obama financial support made his university famous for that stupidity. We EVEN have the emails between Mann and his cohorts saying that since none of his predictions have had any evidence behind them that they would have to change the temperature records to comply with his predictions. And they ACTUALLY changed the records! We have the records from before 1986 and after showing the changes. And NOAA has shown every year since then heating despite world wide cold as reported by the weather services of all of the countries.

Do you suppose that a man who has shown himself to not have any viable education is going to do anything but call names and puff out his chest?

[Tom Kunich]

A long bow required a great deal more skill to use. This is what brought about the development of a crossbow and later the gun. Wars are fought by men and not a large portion of them are skilled at weaponry. This is why John's claims to shooting competitions are so ridiculous. I got involved in shooting originally by a man I worked with I put in 10 years of learning the craft so I know his comments are like those of Seaton. I KNOW that there are very few people that could possibly afford the kind of weapons, scopes, match grade ammo and practice it takes to be good at it. I was making a LOT of money from the time I started engineering till I had my concussion. Inasmuch as I was over 65 by then it didn't much matter though I would have been in a great deal better financial position without that ass Obama and now Biden in the oval office and these asses telling us that it was a Bush recession and not the give-away programs of the Democrats that took over Congress two years before Obama was elected on promises of peace in our time.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

On Friday, July 29, 2022 at 9:31:53 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, July 29, 2022 at 12:05:50 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> > On Friday, July 29, 2022 at 2:01:45 AM UTC+1, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > >
> > > Getting gored by the bulls in Pamplona is something to brag about. Maybe, once people stop questioning your stupidity of running with bulls on a city street.
> > >
> > You're such a provincial hick, Eaton or Seaton or WETF your name is. I've run with the bulls in Pamplona, and found them no more dangerous than racing ostriches which, if you fall off the front, will rip you open and perhaps impale you on a four-inch toenail at the end of a very muscular leg for force and long for leverage, if you can handle simple math. (I'm wearing the skin of an ostrich as a watch strap. It kicked an attendant open from his pelvis to his short rips. I scooped his intestines back from the dust into his stomach cavity with my hands a second before the trauma staff lifted him onto the stretcher. He survived but walked skew for the rest of his life.) One year in Pamplona there was another motor racer running, another year another offshore speedboat racer, and those are just the guys from my series that I recognised, and there was a prince, a demon bobsled racer, I hired to be, with his castle, the image of a beer I developed for a client, who at 40 was still running, and an American Air Force pilot who raced planes against me in navigation races. See, it's a bloodsport, and elite blood-sportsmen recognise it. A limp wimp from the accounts` department calling us stupid for finding a thrill even in a sport for working men is likely to meet with a short, sharp accident to his impertinence, for his impertinence.
> > >
> > >Getting gored by Bambi, not so much.
> > >
> > Yo, dingleberry, even a billygoat can gore you, and a pig can kill you with its teeth, and a kangaroo will kick you to death unless you look lively. Hell, there's an aggressive water rat heavier than you, the capybara, on which I'd bet against you any day of the week and twice on Sundays. You'd better stay in your bed unless you want to meet a fate beyond where statistics turn personal, as they always do for cowardly bullies like you.
> > >
> > Why don't you tell us what you've done in your miserable, safe little life that's worth speaking of?
> > >
> > Unsigned out of contempt for a narrow-minded jerk, and none too bright either.
> Poor little Seaton has done absolutely nothing in his life save attempt to belittle his betters.

No, I've never been one of those people who thinks it raises oneself by bringing another down. It does not work that way.

> I have now plumbed the fact that he could not possibly have the degree he claimed.

I have claimed to have degrees in Accounting. A Bachelors degree and a Master of Arts degree. Both with Accounting as a major. If you Tommy have facts that I did not earn and receive those degrees, please present the facts. I have my two degrees in frames. They were hanging on my wall. But are now in a box. I am very curious to see your facts showing I do not have college degrees. I also passed the CPA exam. If that is of any concern to you. I also have that pass certificate framed too. Do you have facts that show I did not pass the CPA exam?

> I wonder that he didn't spend his entire life as a ditch digger if he believes that the Transcontinental Railroad which only stretched half way across the country carried cattle! For HALF the cost they had access to cattle from the southern states.
>

Not sure how southern states came into the conversation. Transcontinental railroad was from Omaha to San Francisco with a meeting of the two railroads in Utah. I always thought of the old west cattle drives as driving cattle west. But as Andy pointed out it was just driving cattle north to Kansas City and Omaha from Texas or Oklahoma. And then the railroads took the cows to Chicago for butchering. I watched too many westerns as a kid and thought the cattle drives shown were driving cattle west. Just like the pioneers on the Oregon Trail were going west in their covered wagons fighting the Indians. There were wagon trains of pioneers and explorers going west before and after the Civil War. And before and after the Trans Railroad in 1869. So maybe there were some cattle drives taking cattle west to the cities that sprung up. The Trans Railroad made it easier to go west young man. But men and families on horses and wagons went west too.

> The pure ignorance of virtually everything he posts about is so surprising you have to wonder that he couldn't even see it himself. I have a Di2 group so HE had one earlier.

I have a 7970 Di2 group on my carbon Ridley frame. I bought it in mid 2010. 18 months after it was released. Bought it from a shop in the Netherlands I believe. Had to wire transfer money or something to buy it. Bought it for a great price. Its worked great from day one. I could not write a book on the tales of woe like you seem to be able to. My Di2 just works fine.

> It doesn't matter that piece of junk was so poorly designed and didn't operate correctly and was replace the very next year, HE had one earlier.

Shimano website says Shimano 7970 Di2 was launched in 2009 and lasted up until 2012 when Shimano came out with 11 sped. Three years Tommy. 2009-2010-2011. And 7970 was replaced not because it did not work great. It was replaced because the bike industry went from 10 cog cassettes to 11 speed cassettes. During the 2009 Tour de France, the teams for the top three riders all used Shimano components. I do not know if they used mechanical or electronic Dura Ace. But I would not be surprised if electronic 7970 was used at the Tour that year. The winners of the Tour de France in 2010 and 2011 also rode bikes with Shimano. So I would not be surprised if 7970 was not used at the Tour.

https://road.shimano.com/us/stories/10-years-of-innovation
https://roadbikeaction.com/shimano-releases-electric-dura-ace/

> I have carbon fiber Colnagos. But suddenly he has carbon fiber too but his are better.

I have a carbon fiber Ridley Excalibur bike. Its red and white. Excalibur was produced by Ridley from 2008 to 2013. I bought it for a good price in the mid 2010s. I replaced an Orbea carbon frame. I still have that Orbea frame and fork. My brother has it at his place. He was supposed to be trying to sell it. Tommy, I also have a titanium Litespeed frame too. And various aluminum and steel bikes too. I have bicycles made out of four different materials. Carbon, titanium, aluminum, and steel.

> I raced for awhile but he was successful though he has no documentation of the preposterous claim. My only claim was that I raced. So he had to beat that.

I was a member of a local race team for a few years. Still have the jerseys. Orange with nice logos and such. They look good. My best and only results was third place in a local criterium. I have a trophy for that result.

>
> He had NO idea what I was talking about when I supplied mathematical proof that there is no climate change.

Please present this mathematical proof disproving climate change. I did not know mathematics controlled the climate. I thought it was more of a physical natural phenomenon. But if you have math that shows how the climate is controlled by math, please present it. As for climate change, I'm just looking at the historical records that show the whole world is getting hotter very quickly. Record high temperatures at Antarctica. And the North Pole. Greenland glaciers melting fastest ever. That is all the proof I need.

> But he could cite Michael Mann,

I don't know who this person is. Do you know him personally?

[John B.]

On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 19:40:32 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
<ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, July 29, 2022 at 9:31:53 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Friday, July 29, 2022 at 12:05:50 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
>> > On Friday, July 29, 2022 at 2:01:45 AM UTC+1, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Getting gored by the bulls in Pamplona is something to brag about. Maybe, once people stop questioning your stupidity of running with bulls on a city street.
>> > >
>> > You're such a provincial hick, Eaton or Seaton or WETF your name is. I've run with the bulls in Pamplona, and found them no more dangerous than racing ostriches which, if you fall off the front, will rip you open and perhaps impale you on a four-inch toenail at the end of a very muscular leg for force and long for leverage, if you can handle simple math. (I'm wearing the skin of an ostrich as a watch strap. It kicked an attendant open from his pelvis to his short rips. I scooped his intestines back from the dust into his stomach cavity with my hands a second before the trauma staff lifted him onto the stretcher. He survived but walked skew for the rest of his life.) One year in Pamplona there was another motor racer running, another year another offshore speedboat racer, and those are just the guys from my series that I recognised, and there was a prince, a demon bobsled racer, I hired to be, with his castle, the image of a beer I developed for a client, who at 40 was still
>running, and an American Air Force pilot who raced planes against me in navigation races. See, it's a bloodsport, and elite blood-sportsmen recognise it. A limp wimp from the accounts` department calling us stupid for finding a thrill even in a sport for working men is likely to meet with a short, sharp accident to his impertinence, for his impertinence.
>> > >
>> > >Getting gored by Bambi, not so much.
>> > >
>> > Yo, dingleberry, even a billygoat can gore you, and a pig can kill you with its teeth, and a kangaroo will kick you to death unless you look lively. Hell, there's an aggressive water rat heavier than you, the capybara, on which I'd bet against you any day of the week and twice on Sundays. You'd better stay in your bed unless you want to meet a fate beyond where statistics turn personal, as they always do for cowardly bullies like you.
>> > >
>> > Why don't you tell us what you've done in your miserable, safe little life that's worth speaking of?
>> > >
>> > Unsigned out of contempt for a narrow-minded jerk, and none too bright either.
>> Poor little Seaton has done absolutely nothing in his life save attempt to belittle his betters.

Which brings up an interesting point... Is it "belittling" to tell the
truth about someone?

Or is this a term used by those who would prefer to hide their
deficiencies?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Andre Jute]

Eaton or Seaton or WETF his name is, is thicker than two short planks together. Even Slow Johnny, notorious for getting the emphasis on stuff wrong because he has no nuance (most likely can't even spell it), is fractionally smarter than Eaton or Seaton or WETF his name is. This latest episode by Eaton or Seaton or WETF his name is displays his only talent, for being stupid to a T: pretending to be an expert on various bows and getting them arse about end. If that limp wimp had any decency, he'd embarrass himself, and apologise to you, but don't hold your breath.
>
Andre Jute
The problem with the RBT scum isn't that they're so ugly, though there is that as well, but that they're so embarrassingly stupid and foolish with it.
>

[Tom Kunich]

Amy work honestly done is honorable. But why do you suppose that Seaton would claim to be an accountant and not be able to understand simple arithmetic? From that point he pretends to actually understand the world around him when he probably couldn't make change for a dollar on a 90 cent purchase.

What I simply cannot understand is these people all of whom have done not one single thing in their lives that had to do with medical science pretending to know more about it that i do when I have a long string of successes in the field. I developed respiratory gas analyzers, heart/lung machines, PCR automation which I even referenced. What did that impossible ass Frank have to say? That I owned NO patents. He is supposedly an engineer and he doesn't even know that engineers do not own the projects they are hired to do. Slocum who has to be the slowest person on the planet, tells me that heart/lung machines have been around since the early 1900's. He can say that because he is all knowing about it.

One of my last jobs was at BioElectroMed working on cancer detection and treatment devices that used ultrasound. finely control syringe pumps for long term injection of medications. Polymerase Chain Reaction which was used ro discover he source of AIDS and recently abused to claim covid-19 deaths. But Slocum knows FAR more about this than I do. In fact, there isn't anything that a tow truck driver like Slocum doesn't know with his handy Google which he has absolutely no way of understanding.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 1:52:08 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 4:52:18 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> > On Friday, July 29, 2022 at 3:31:53 PM UTC+1, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Friday, July 29, 2022 at 12:05:50 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> > > > On Friday, July 29, 2022 at 2:01:45 AM UTC+1, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Getting gored by the bulls in Pamplona is something to brag about. Maybe, once people stop questioning your stupidity of running with bulls on a city street.
> > > > >
> > > > You're such a provincial hick, Eaton or Seaton or WETF your name is. I've run with the bulls in Pamplona, and found them no more dangerous than racing ostriches which, if you fall off the front, will rip you open and perhaps impale you on a four-inch toenail at the end of a very muscular leg for force and long for leverage, if you can handle simple math. (I'm wearing the skin of an ostrich as a watch strap. It kicked an attendant open from his pelvis to his short rips. I scooped his intestines back from the dust into his stomach cavity with my hands a second before the trauma staff lifted him onto the stretcher. He survived but walked skew for the rest of his life.) One year in Pamplona there was another motor racer running, another year another offshore speedboat racer, and those are just the guys from my series that I recognised, and there was a prince, a demon bobsled racer, I hired to be, with his castle, the image of a beer I developed for a client, who at 40 was still running, and an American Air Force pilot who raced planes against me in navigation races. See, it's a bloodsport, and elite blood-sportsmen recognise it. A limp wimp from the accounts` department calling us stupid for finding a thrill even in a sport for working men is likely to meet with a short, sharp accident to his impertinence, for his impertinence.
> > > > >
> > > > >Getting gored by Bambi, not so much.
> > > > >
> > > > Yo, dingleberry, even a billygoat can gore you, and a pig can kill you with its teeth, and a kangaroo will kick you to death unless you look lively. Hell, there's an aggressive water rat heavier than you, the capybara, on which I'd bet against you any day of the week and twice on Sundays. You'd better stay in your bed unless you want to meet a fate beyond where statistics turn personal, as they always do for cowardly bullies like you.
> > > > >
> > > > Why don't you tell us what you've done in your miserable, safe little life that's worth speaking of?
> > > > >
> > > > Unsigned out of contempt for a narrow-minded jerk, and none too bright either.
> > > Poor little Seaton has done absolutely nothing in his life save attempt to belittle his betters. I have now plumbed the fact that he could not possibly have the degree he claimed. I wonder that he didn't spend his entire life as a ditch digger if he believes that the Transcontinental Railroad which only stretched half way across the country carried cattle! For HALF the cost they had access to cattle from the southern states.
> > >
> > > The pure ignorance of virtually everything he posts about is so surprising you have to wonder that he couldn't even see it himself. I have a Di2 group so HE had one earlier. It doesn't matter that piece of junk was so poorly designed and didn't operate correctly and was replace the very next year, HE had one earlier. I have carbon fiber Colnagos. But suddenly he has carbon fiber too but his are better. I raced for awhile but he was successful though he has no documentation of the preposterous claim. My only claim was that I raced. So he had to beat that.
> > >
> > > He had NO idea what I was talking about when I supplied mathematical proof that there is no climate change. But he could cite Michael Mann, the man who with full Obama financial support made his university famous for that stupidity. We EVEN have the emails between Mann and his cohorts saying that since none of his predictions have had any evidence behind them that they would have to change the temperature records to comply with his predictions. And they ACTUALLY changed the records! We have the records from before 1986 and after showing the changes. And NOAA has shown every year since then heating despite world wide cold as reported by the weather services of all of the countries.
> > >
> > > Do you suppose that a man who has shown himself to not have any viable education is going to do anything but call names and puff out his chest?
> > >
> > Eaton or Seaton or WETF his name is, is thicker than two short planks together. Even Slow Johnny, notorious for getting the emphasis on stuff wrong because he has no nuance (most likely can't even spell it), is fractionally smarter than Eaton or Seaton or WETF his name is. This latest episode by Eaton or Seaton or WETF his name is displays his only talent, for being stupid to a T: pretending to be an expert on various bows and getting them arse about end. If that limp wimp had any decency, he'd embarrass himself, and apologise to you, but don't hold your breath.
> > >
> > Andre Jute
> > The problem with the RBT scum isn't that they're so ugly, though there is that as well, but that they're so embarrassingly stupid and foolish with it.
> > >
> Amy work honestly done is honorable.

Why are you bringing Amy into the discussion? She hasn't done anything to deserve your criticism. Leave the girl alone Tommy.

> But why do you suppose that Seaton would claim to be an accountant and not be able to understand simple arithmetic?

You mean simple mathematics like showing positive stock market returns during Obama's presidential tenure? Despite Tommy losing money when Obama was president.

> From that point he pretends to actually understand the world around him when he probably couldn't make change for a dollar on a 90 cent purchase.

Tommy, there are many places in Republican states where you would get arrested for shoplifting if you tried to pay for a $0.90 gross purchase with a $1 bill. Its called state and local sales tax. In Louisiana, Missouri, Alabama, Arkansas, the local sales tax is above 12%. I know you do not know math Tommy. Being a high school flunk out. But if you take 90 cents and multiply it by 1.12 you end up with 10.8 cents. Stores round sales tax to the nearest cent. So you would owe $1.01 total for your 90 cent gross purchase. You get no change from a $1 bill on a $1.01 purchase. You still owe $0.01 more.

https://www.salestaxhandbook.com/highest-salestax-cities

Are you a shoplifter and stealer Tommy?

HIGH state and local sales tax is one of the Republican economic tricks. Make the working man pay a high price for basic necessities with 100% of his income. While cutting the income tax for the rich who spend a very small portion of their income on goods. Thus the rich end up with far more money to invest or buy property in the Caribbean islands.

>
> What I simply cannot understand is these people all of whom have done not one single thing in their lives that had to do with medical science pretending to know more about it that i do when I have a long string of successes in the field. I developed respiratory gas analyzers, heart/lung machines, PCR automation which I even referenced. What did that impossible ass Frank have to say? That I owned NO patents. He is supposedly an engineer and he doesn't even know that engineers do not own the projects they are hired to do. Slocum who has to be the slowest person on the planet, tells me that heart/lung machines have been around since the early 1900's.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_lung
"Invention and early use
Initial development
In 1670, English scientist John Mayow came up with the idea of external negative pressure ventilation. Mayow built a model consisting of bellows and a bladder to pull in and expel air. The first negative pressure ventilator was described by British physician John Dalziel in 1832. Successful use of similar devices was described a few years later. Early prototypes included a hand-operated bellows-driven "Spirophore" designed by Dr Woillez of Paris (1876), and an airtight wooden box designed specifically for the treatment of polio by Dr Stueart of South Africa (1918). Stueart's box was sealed at the waist and shoulders with clay and powered by motor-driven bellows.

Drinker and Shaw tank
The first of these devices to be widely used however was developed in 1928 by Drinker and Shaw of the United States. The iron lung, often referred to in the early days as the "Drinker respirator", was invented by Philip Drinker (1894–1972) and Louis Agassiz Shaw Jr., professors of industrial hygiene at the Harvard School of Public Health. The machine was powered by an electric motor with air pumps from two vacuum cleaners. The air pumps changed the pressure inside a rectangular, airtight metal box, pulling air in and out of the lungs.

The first clinical use of the Drinker respirator on a human was on October 12, 1928, at the Boston Children's Hospital in the US. The subject was an eight-year-old girl who was nearly dead as a result of respiratory failure due to polio. Her dramatic recovery, within less than a minute of being placed in the chamber, helped popularize the new device.

Variations
Boston manufacturer Warren E. Collins began production of the iron lung that year. Although it was initially developed for the treatment of victims of coal gas poisoning, it was most famously used in the mid-20th century for the treatment of respiratory failure caused by poliomyelitis.

Danish physiologist August Krogh, upon returning to Copenhagen in 1931 from a visit to New York where he saw the Drinker machine in use, constructed the first Danish respirator designed for clinical purposes. Krogh's device differed from Drinker's in that its motor was powered by water from the city pipelines. Krogh also made an infant respirator version.

In 1931, John Haven Emerson (1906–1997) introduced an improved and less expensive iron lung. The Emerson iron lung had a bed that could slide in and out of the cylinder as needed, and the tank had portal windows which allowed attendants to reach in and adjust limbs, sheets, or hot packs.

The United Kingdom's first iron lung was designed in 1934 by Robert Henderson, an Aberdeen doctor. Henderson had seen a demonstration of the Drinker respirator in the early 1930s and built a device of his own upon his return to Scotland. Four weeks after its construction, the Henderson respirator was used to save the life of a 10-year-old boy from New Deer, Aberdeenshire, who had poliomyelitis. Despite this success, Henderson was reprimanded for secretly using hospital facilities to build the machine.

Both respirator
The Both respirator, a negative pressure ventilator, was invented in 1937 when Australia's epidemic of poliomyelitis created an immediate need for more ventilating machines to compensate for respiratory paralysis."

1670, 1832, 1876, 1918, 1927, 1931, 1934, 1937. Gosh, Tommy, seems like Mr. Slocum was right, and you were wrong. Iron lungs were invented in the early 1900s. And late 1800s. And thought of in the 1600s. Note, I consider the 1930s to be part of the early 1900s. If you disagree with that assessment, OK. 1920s must be early 1900s? And 1918 must be early 1900s? And the 1800s is even before the 1900s.

> He can say that because he is all knowing about it.
>
> One of my last jobs was at BioElectroMed working on cancer detection and treatment devices that used ultrasound.

I will have to rely upon Jeff to check your LinkedIn resume to see if this probably three month job appears on your resume. If it does NOT, then you are just making up more lies.

[John B.]

But Tommy, as I mentioned to Jeff, I wrote to a number of the
companies that you list in your resume as having worked for regarding
your employment with them and received answers from four. Three stated
that they had no record of a Tom, or Thomas, Kunich ever having been
employed at their company and one stated that yes, a Thomas Kunich had
been employed by them for a short period and they didn't care to
discuss the reasons for his termination.

So, based on that information, apparently your "vast experience" is
made up of 75% lies and 25% getting fired.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Jeff Liebermann]

It's one his online resume. 2 years 10 months at BioElectroMed.

(Gee thanks. I get stuck with doing the research and grunt work.
Remind me to send you my math and graphing problems. Grumble.)

<https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-kunich-22012/>

Electronics Engineer
BioElectroMed Corp.
Mar 2007 - Dec 2009 · 2 yrs 10 mos
749 Mitten Rd Suite 105. Burlingame, CA 94010

Troubleshooting, design, R & D and programming
medical research hardware that is used in NIH
funded program concerning detection and treatment
of some types of cancer. Requires firmware in
assembly on an 8051 cored device and C and C++
on a Windows XT system.

Construction of very high voltage medical
research pulse generator. Selected and programmed
controller in Forth. Designed sensitive skin
contact voltage probe. Redesigned non-contact
skin voltage probe.

A few minor issues and questions:

1. The XT should be changed to XP unless Tom wants his fans to
suspect that he doesn't know the difference between an IBM XT computah
and a Microsoft XP operating system.

2. I would be interested in knowing the name of the NIH program.
<https://www.nih.gov/grants-funding>

3. Treating cancer using ultrasonics is possible with High-Intensity
Focused Ultrasound (HIFU):
<https://www.sonablate.com>
In about 2004, a friend worked on a similar ultrasonic system which
used ultrasonic ablation to treat prostate cancer.

4. I found many references to programming an 8051 in C, but also some
comments indicating that programming it in C++ is overkill. I did
find a compiler:
<http://www.ceibo.com/eng/products/cpp.shtml>
It's apparently still being sold today.

5. I would be interested in knowing the voltages involved in a "very
high voltage medical research pulse generator". Such things are
possible and may exist:
"The Effect of High Voltage, High Frequency Pulsed Electric Field on
Slain Ovine Cortical Bone"
<https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3994715/>
However, after my discussion in RBT with Tom on his million volt power
supplies at Physics International, I think some additional detail
might be appropriate.

6. I'm trying to visualize a "non-contact skin voltage probe". If I
wanted to measure a voltage, I would need electrodes and wires to an
instrument. Any air gap would be an insulator and possibly a
capacitor. How does one measure voltage without touching the patients
skin?

For what it's worth, I mostly trust the information in the resume and
distrust the information presented by Tom here in RBT. My guess(tm)
is that Tom actually did work for BioElectroMed Corp on something.
Whether the description of his work is accurate is questionable.

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[John B.]

On Sat, 30 Jul 2022 19:24:11 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

You are talking about the bloke that can't seem to get his Garmin
thngy to work right?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 9:24:20 PM UTC-5, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Jul 2022 14:21:38 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 1:52:08 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> >> One of my last jobs was at BioElectroMed working on cancer detection and treatment devices that used ultrasound.
>
> >I will have to rely upon Jeff to check your LinkedIn resume to see if this probably three month job appears on your resume. If it does NOT, then you are just making up more lies.
> It's one his online resume. 2 years 10 months at BioElectroMed.
>
> (Gee thanks. I get stuck with doing the research and grunt work.
> Remind me to send you my math and graphing problems. Grumble.)

Everyone here does appreciate you calling out Tommy's lies on his resume.

Don't know if this is helpful or not, but with house electrical wiring, there are non contact voltage detection devices. See below:
https://www.amazon.com/Non-Contact-Detector-Klein-Tools-NCVT1P/dp/B099SJ6469/ref=sr_1_5?crid=3TGBMR291KKO4&keywords=non+contact+electrical+tester&qid=1659331392&sprefix=non+contact+electrical%2Caps%2C354&sr=8-5

Of course the tester above is for 50-1000 volts. But I suspect a skin voltage detector would be dealing with tiny volts. So a non contact might not be able to pick up voltage that small.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 22:27:20 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"

<ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 9:24:20 PM UTC-5, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Sat, 30 Jul 2022 14:21:38 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"
>> <ritzann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 1:52:08 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> >> One of my last jobs was at BioElectroMed working on cancer detection and treatment devices that used ultrasound.
>>
>> >I will have to rely upon Jeff to check your LinkedIn resume to see if this probably three month job appears on your resume. If it does NOT, then you are just making up more lies.
>> It's one his online resume. 2 years 10 months at BioElectroMed.
>>
>> (Gee thanks. I get stuck with doing the research and grunt work.
>> Remind me to send you my math and graphing problems. Grumble.)
>
>Everyone here does appreciate you calling out Tommy's lies on his resume.

Thanks. You're the first to thank me. I started out trying to help
Tom reorganized his resume. At the time, he was looking for work, and
I was genuinely trying to be helpful. That didn't quite work as
intended. As far as I can tell, his online resume is mostly accurate.
At one point, the dates of employment overlapped and were very
inconsistent. He fixed that without my help. The remaining problems
are mostly details that make me wonder what he was actually doing at
the companies involved. Most of what I've been doing is correcting
factual errors and absurd claims of magnificent achievements in every
area imaginable. I do this for sport, because I enjoy that style of
mystery novel, where it's obvious who committed the crime, but very
tricky to prove it. I had hoped that Tom might learn something from
my fact checking, but apparently that's not happening. Four or five
times posting conclusions based on VAERS data is a bit much.

>> 6. I'm trying to visualize a "non-contact skin voltage probe". If I
>> wanted to measure a voltage, I would need electrodes and wires to an
>> instrument. Any air gap would be an insulator and possibly a
>> capacitor. How does one measure voltage without touching the patients
>> skin?

>Don't know if this is helpful or not, but with house electrical wiring, there are non contact voltage detection devices. See below:
>https://www.amazon.com/Non-Contact-Detector-Klein-Tools-NCVT1P/dp/B099SJ6469/ref=sr_1_5?crid=3TGBMR291KKO4&keywords=non+contact+electrical+tester&qid=1659331392&sprefix=non+contact+electrical%2Caps%2C354&sr=8-5
>
>Of course the tester above is for 50-1000 volts. But I suspect a skin voltage detector would be dealing with tiny volts. So a non contact might not be able to pick up voltage that small.

The common electricians non-contact AC line tester works because 50/60
Hz AC power generates an electric field which can be detected by
either capacitive or inductive coupling. If we ran DC power in our
houses, such detectors would not work. However, magnetic field
detectors (Hall Effect) will work with DC.

Humans do have detectable electric fields and voltages moving through
various parts of the body. However, the voltages and fields are very
tiny and require sensitive detectors and good electrical contacts to
function. I wanted to see how Tom had solved the problem.

Incidentally, I have a small collection of various non-contact AC line
testers. Most are the fallout from various friends buying these only
to find out it didn't quite work as well as expected. Some of the
comparison videos on YouTube show some rather unexpected results. As
I vaguely recall, a few were useless:
<https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ac+line+tester+comparison>

[Frank Krygowski]

On 8/1/2022 2:28 AM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
>
>
> Incidentally, I have a small collection of various non-contact AC line
> testers. Most are the fallout from various friends buying these only
> to find out it didn't quite work as well as expected. Some of the
> comparison videos on YouTube show some rather unexpected results. As
> I vaguely recall, a few were useless:
> <https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ac+line+tester+comparison>

I finally bought one of those gizmos after a friend had a really weird
electrical problem in his older house. My wife was barefoot and sitting
on a chair in his screened in porch. She touched the metal cover of an
outlet and got a buzz. People who were not barefoot felt nothing. So the
metal cover was hot, and shoes insulated people from the concrete floor.

Over several weeks, I nibbled away at the problem using meters, plug
testers, etc. with little success. A different friend brought his
non-contact tester to help. While I don't remember details of how we
found this out, it turned out to be a double problem. First, a hot wire
had somehow shifted out of position (possibly when someone fussed with a
basement ceiling fixture) and touched a metal connection box. Second,
the circuit was not properly grounded (I forget details) so the breaker
never tripped.

In my experience, most fault diagnosis instructions assume one fault at
a time. This wasn't the first time I've run into simultaneous faults
that complicate diagnosis. But in any case, the non-contact tester was
helpful, so I added one to my collection of seldom used tools.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Jeff Liebermann]

Nice job of troubleshooting. I have problems with creative house
wiring in customers homes. Before I install any equipment in a house,
office, server room, or equipment vault, I check the wiring with one
of these electrical outlet tester:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=electrical+outlet+tester&tbm=isch>
I have about 8 of these. If there's anything wrong with the wiring or
grounding, these will show it. Some have a built in GFCI tester. I
don't recall how many times these testers have identified potentially
hazardous wiring.

About 20 years ago, some friends bought a recently remodeled house.
When I arrived for the obligatory tour, something made me want to test
the outlets. Using my outlet tester, I found that every outlet in the
house was wired backwards (hot and neutral reversed). Oddly, the
garage was correctly wired. A few days later, the seller's agent and
an electrician arrived to fix the wiring. It took about 4 days
because other electrical problems were found.

These testers look interesting because they will show leakage voltage
and the display will change from green to red if they find something
wrong:
<https://www.amazon.com/KAIWEETS-Voltage-Tester-Outlet/dp/B0848PS99X>
<https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08LSM4DVG>

[Frank Krygowski]

On 8/1/2022 2:16 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
> ... I found that every outlet in the
> house was wired backwards (hot and neutral reversed)...

Hah. I knew a guy that might have done that. He argued with me about
which wire was supposed to be hot. A mutual electrician friend said the
guy's nickname was "Sparky."

He was one of the owners of a tiny business I consulted for. After we
parted ways, I saw a newspaper article in which he claimed he was an
engineer. His (only) degree was actually in business.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Jeff Liebermann]

I know who did the backwards wiring. I talked to him after yelling
subsided in order to determine what happened. He should have known
better because he had previously successfully re-wired several houses.
What happened is that someone had given him a wall receptacle with all
the wires cut to about 2 inches to use as a sample. I have no idea
why, but my guess(tm) is that his eyesight was failing or maybe he's
color blind. Of course, the sample was wired backwards. The breaker
box was fine because he just copied the existing color coding. There
were three people working on the electrical, yet nobody spotted the
problem.[1]

Standards are a good thing. Every country should have one.
<https://www.electricalclassroom.com/electrical-wiring-color-codes/>
Notice that for single phase power:
<https://www.electricalclassroom.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/International-Wiring-color-codes..jpeg>
the color codes vary radically by country. 3 phase is worse.

If you use sensors, I suspect that the color codes were selected at
random:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=thermocouple+color+codes+country&tbm=isch>


[1] Many years ago, I installed CAT5 cable for serial data terminals
in a medical office complex. My accomplice was terminating the
connector ends in the server closet to EIA-568A color coding, while I
was crimping the terminal ends to EIA-568B. Needless to say, it
didn't work. I spend a dismal evening in a hot server closet fixing
the problem.
<https://www.comms-express.com/infozone/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/T568A-and-T568B-wiring-spec-standards.jpg>

[John B.]

On Mon, 01 Aug 2022 15:40:21 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

You need to travel a bit. When I was in Vietnam I found house wiring
to be two white wires, or maybe two black wires. But the lights worked
regardless to what color the wires were.

In the early days in Thailand I was, for a short time assigned as an
"electrical supervisor". My team wired a new addition to an existing
building and when the Air Force Inspector checked out the work he came
up with a "discrepancy" - wall switch mounted up side down. I told the
Thai crew chief to go fix it and he looked at me sort of funny and
said, "but the lights go on and off."
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

One of my good cycling friends, now sadly departed, was among the first
to receive a copy of the area bike maps developed by a team of club
volunteers. As with many such maps, we used red to indicate roads
suitable for only expert riders.

My friend said "But those all look black to me." I guess that happens
with red-green color blindness.

And one of the most competent electrical engineers I know is also color
blind. I've wondered how he ever dealt with things like resistor color
codes. Fortunately, he's long been way above doing such detail work,
except for his home hobby projects.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

On 8/1/2022 9:17 PM, John B. wrote:
>
> In the early days in Thailand I was, for a short time assigned as an
> "electrical supervisor". My team wired a new addition to an existing
> building and when the Air Force Inspector checked out the work he came
> up with a "discrepancy" - wall switch mounted up side down. I told the
> Thai crew chief to go fix it and he looked at me sort of funny and
> said, "but the lights go on and off."

How would the Inspector deal with a three way switch? On-Off and Up-Down
for one switch depends on the state of the other switch.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

[raises hand]

If there's an envelope of cash inside the fuse panel,
inspection passes.

If not you'll get written up, for violations real or
imagined (no commercial building is 100% ever). That will
repeat twice a year until the owner wises up.

[John B.]

I have no idea as the question never came up as it was a simple on/off
light switch.

--
Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

Such a cynic!

As a counterexample: One of my best friends from engineering school
decided to build his own house, with the help of his father. He later
told me about all the trouble he had passing inspection for IIRC the
plumbing.

As he told me, the third trip out the building inspector said "Oh hell,
just let me do it for you." And he completed whatever changes were
necessary.

Maybe the envelope of cash couldn't be hidden in a drainpipe?


--
- Frank Krygowski