Practical bicycle: Omafiets

[Frank Krygowski]

Here's a video praising the Omafiets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aESqrP3hfi8

... not that I want one. But it might be interesting to discuss.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Lou Holtman]

Great bikes for going around in the city. If you find this special, you can image how weird I find the videos showing commuting people in for instance Portland like Jay often mentioned.

Lou

[Tom Kunich]

I can see some advantages to them but in the USA it is usually too far between points to use a commuter. The closest coffee shop is about a 5 mile round trip. The closest commute I ever made to work was 5 miles one way and typically 25 miles. If I didn't have a descent grocery store a half mile away it would be 5 miles to and from the grocery.

From my home to my neurologist is 25 miles one way. If I were to ride there and return via San Francisco and the Rapid Transit system it would be 55 miles if I didn't use the ferry instead and ride from downtown Oakland which would then be 65 miles. Mind you, the reason that you would go the extra distance is because early in the morning the traffic on the route would be fairly light while the return the same way would be in either dangerous traffic or if you went a safer east side route the distance would be just as far as the SF route and on worse roads. This is why we don't commute by bike here and I have a difficult time believing that Beaty commuted the 10 miles one way to his law office on a sport bike since it was uphill on the return trip and lawyers wear suits.

[Roger Merriman]

Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Here's a video praising the Omafiets.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aESqrP3hfi8
>
> ... not that I want one. But it might be interesting to discuss.
>

I do know of few cycling activists who went down I love them, rabbit hole
to change few years later as well they found them hard work. Ie folks love
the idea and look of them but not the performance of them.

Roger Merriman

[Sepp Ruf]

Lou Holtman wrote:

> On January 18, 2023 at 6:25:09 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:

>> Here's a video praising the Omafiets.

as well as separated "facilities" (where, at 10 mph speed, the bike's
drag makes sure Oma really is a traffic obstacle to /realcyclist/ !!!)

>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aESqrP3hfi8
>>
>> ... not that I want one. But it might be interesting to discuss.

Didn't you already post this before, apparently as "emergency
bicycle-related content," Frank?

I dislike the unused room above the front wheel. During a storm, okay,
fine, won't fall over if parked carelessly. But in Ohio weather, at
least have a front basket so it looks a bit more Amish practical.

A bit dark for younger generations, but embellishing the wicker basket
with colorful plastic flowers is an option!
<https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/gazelle-fahrrad-hollandrad-28-zoll-korb-7-gang-neu-/2308034966>
And, of course, the handlebar's height is pointlessly overdone, unless
the hands are arthritic as hell.

> Great bikes for going around in the city. If you find this special,
> you can image how weird I find the videos showing commuting people in
> for instance Portland like Jay often mentioned.

Unlike a 1sp Omafiets, this one does go up and down real hills:
<https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/damenrad-utopia-libelle-tiefeinstieg-rohloff-speedhub-son-dyn/2317742198>
be about seventeen years old, but might only need a more ergonomical
handlebar geometry, and a better saddle, to commute or to ride three
hours (around the lake).

[Frank Krygowski]

On 1/19/2023 8:39 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
> Lou Holtman wrote:
>> On January 18, 2023 at 6:25:09 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>
>>> Here's a video praising the Omafiets.
>
> as well as separated "facilities" (where, at 10 mph speed, the bike's
> drag makes sure Oma really is a traffic obstacle to /realcyclist/ !!!)
>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aESqrP3hfi8
>>>
>>> ... not that I want one. But it might be interesting to discuss.
>
> Didn't you already post this before, apparently as "emergency
> bicycle-related content," Frank?

No.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Radey Shouman]

I (genuinely, never having been there) wonder how long you could park
that in Amsterdam and not have it stolen.

[AMuzi]

From people I know, including tourists and ex employee who
moved to Amsterdam, about 30 seconds.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Lou Holtman]

I don’t live in Amsterdam thank god. Never had a bike stolen.

Lou

[Frank Krygowski]

We visited there without our bikes, and rented some for several days. We
locked them with the cables supplied by the rental shop and had no
problems. That included while we went into the large art museum and when
we parked them outside our AirBnB.

Keep in mind, there are always parked bikes visible in Amsterdam. In
some places there are thousands of them. The odds are in your favor;
random chance says yours will not be the one targeted by thieves. If it
looks well locked, there's even less chance it will be stolen.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Radey Shouman]

For a day or two, the odds are not bad. But if you park your bike every
day?

[Frank Krygowski]

Yes, that would be more of a problem. But still: We parked them outside
our AirBnB in a not-quite-courtyard. It was accessible to cars, but IIRC
had tight, contorted ways in and out, so the traffic was probably only
residents. And we parked them in racks among many other bikes, which I
assume were those of residents. (Things were crowded enough that at
least one time, we could not fit all three of our bikes in the same rack.)

However, those bikes were all utility bikes. The owner of our AirBnB,
whom we never met, had a pretty nice road bike. We know because that was
stored inside.

I suppose the desirability of the bike matters, as well as other things.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Ralph Barone]

I rented one in Sweden a few years back and it was a decent experience
except that coaster brakes are a hard adjustment for a person accustomed to
derailleurs and being able to pedal backwards to line up the pedals before
starting.

[Axel Reichert]

Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> writes:

> Here's a video praising the Omafiets.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aESqrP3hfi8
>
> ... not that I want one. But it might be interesting to discuss.

Thanks for the link. Interesting watch, like some author by the same
guy. Omafiets are quite popular in Germany as well, I have
occasionally ridden one.

I doubt that a position so upright is comfortable for more than 10
km. Also, I never had trouble with assessing a busy traffic situation
with a more "aero" position. We are not talking about deep drop bars
for an hour record here.

Frame locks (easy to break), coaster brakes (weak, annoying at traffic
lights), sidewall dynamos (fail in rain or snow) and Dunlop valves
(easily stolen) are crappy.

Many of the points made in the video apply to folding bikes as well:
Easy mounting due to the low frame height, mud guards, racks, kick
stands, bells, internal hubs, hub dynamos, low maintenance.

But good folding bikes offer additional benefits: They are suited for
travelling/longer distances and they can be brought by almost any
means of other transportation (small car, bus, tram, train), even
during rush hours. And you can take them with you, so they do not get
stolen.

While the wheels on a Brompton might be sitting low enough, I cannot
comment whether it is suited for a skirt or a dress. (-;

Best regards

Axel

[Axel Reichert]

Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> writes:

> Here's a video praising the Omafiets.
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aESqrP3hfi8
>
> ... not that I want one. But it might be interesting to discuss.

Thanks for the link. Interesting watch, like some others by the same

[Roger Merriman]

Bit like the hire bikes, if it’s short distances folks use them and a lot!
But being such heavy and wind catching bikes makes them hard work for
medium let alone long distances.

Plus these folks tend not to be hugely fit folks and probably don’t want to
be working hard, which seems to be the reason they switch to hybrid or
similar bikes, ie to have easier ride.

Roger Merriman

[Frank Krygowski]

On 1/22/2023 5:31 AM, Axel Reichert wrote:
>
> Frame locks (easy to break), coaster brakes (weak, annoying at traffic

> lights)...

Until recently, riding with kids, I'd forgotten how annoying it is to
not be able to back pedal when needed.

> Many of the points made in the video apply to folding bikes as well:
> Easy mounting due to the low frame height, mud guards, racks, kick
> stands, bells, internal hubs, hub dynamos, low maintenance.
>
> But good folding bikes offer additional benefits: They are suited for
> travelling/longer distances and they can be brought by almost any
> means of other transportation (small car, bus, tram, train), even
> during rush hours. And you can take them with you, so they do not get
> stolen.

Agreed. We've used our folding Bikes Friday multi-modally many times.
That's even though they prioritize touring ride quality over quick and
easy fold.

But I admit to thinking more and more about a Brompton.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Roger Merriman]

I love the idea of one, though not ridden one though can hire them nr me!

But I can’t see any use for me for them.

Roger Merriman

[Catrike Rider]

Folding bikes are not for me. I've always owned a truck. I can and
have transported both our Catrikes many times.

[AMuzi]

I gave my daughter a folding extralight single speed Dahon
years ago thinking it would help at the ends of train
commuting. She moved to another city shortly after, doesn't
commute by train. She's never actually folded it, says she
would not risk going on Chicago's El with a folded bike anyway.

On the other hand she uses it quite often and finds the
handling good in city traffic.

Sometimes what you 'know' is wrong and also 'right' in ways
previously not considered.

[Andre Jute]

On Sunday, January 22, 2023 at 10:29:17 AM UTC, Axel Reichert wrote:
>
> I doubt that a position so upright is comfortable for more than 10 km.
>

I take exactly the opposite view, that a middle-aged man on drop bars on a road bike looks like a gorilla forced into too small a cage -- and his back soon tells him that's what it feels like too.
>
For you information, nobody sits completely upright, full perpendicular to the road, unless the bike is incompetently designed or set up or, of course, a hire bike that doesn't fit a particular person.
>
I sit about ten degrees off perpendicular and in a dozen years or so with my current bike on poor lanes and potholed small roads have seen no need for suspension beyond 60mm Schwalbe Big Apples and a well-sprung Brooks saddle.
>
About the small-wheelers, whether folding or not, I'm waiting for someone to mention the elephant in the midget bike room: those mickey mouse wheels make for a god-awfully uncomfortable ride.
>
In previous years, on sporting or otherwise unsuitable bikes, my back bought my physio a big new BMW every second year. When I started riding my current bike, she took one look at me and went into mourning for the good life...
>
I'm surprised that hire bikes don't come with toollessly adjustable stems, like the proprietary Gazelle version fitted as standard to bikes above, presumably, a given price class. With a North Road handlebar it would offer an infinite number of seating positions with full handlebar control.
>
Andre Jute
Horses for courses.
>

[Roger Merriman]

Broadly similar, in that I either travel by the bike, or I travel with the
car/train somewhere.

What I don’t do are sort of mixed commuting or so on that a Brompton excels
at!

Used to be a young woman at the train station who would arrive on her
Brompton cup of coffee in hand, fold it cleanly in one motion all decked
out with purple!

Roger Merriman

[Catrike Rider]

On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 10:23:36 -0800 (PST), Andre Jute
<fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, January 22, 2023 at 10:29:17 AM UTC, Axel Reichert wrote:
>>
>> I doubt that a position so upright is comfortable for more than 10 km.
>>
>I take exactly the opposite view, that a middle-aged man on drop bars on a road bike looks like a gorilla forced into too small a cage -- and his back soon tells him that's what it feels like too.

+1

[sms]

While not technically an omafiets, the spousal unit has what she calls a
"granny bike" with low stepover and swept back handlebars for an upright
riding position. But it has full gearing with a triple crankset. It was
not easy to find in the U.S.. No chainguard, but apparently there are
chainguards available for bicycles with multiple chainrings.

For a road bike, she wanted a mixte frame, but with full gearing and
upright handlebars, also extremely hard to find. I bought one with drop
bars and changed the bars, shifters, and brake levers. I really wanted a
product, not a project, but that was not to be. And, gasp, I had to buy
the mixte from Bikesdirect
<http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/motobecane/womens-road-bikes/miragesport_mixte_blu_5.jpg>.

[Catrike Rider]

On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 18:27:01 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman

<ro...@sarlet.com> wrote:

>Catrike Rider <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>> On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 16:48:38 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman
>> <ro...@sarlet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>>> On 1/22/2023 5:31 AM, Axel Reichert wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Frame locks (easy to break), coaster brakes (weak, annoying at traffic
>>>>> lights)...
>>>>
>>>> Until recently, riding with kids, I'd forgotten how annoying it is to
>>>> not be able to back pedal when needed.
>>>>
>>>>> Many of the points made in the video apply to folding bikes as well:
>>>>> Easy mounting due to the low frame height, mud guards, racks, kick
>>>>> stands, bells, internal hubs, hub dynamos, low maintenance.
>>>>>
>>>>> But good folding bikes offer additional benefits: They are suited for
>>>>> travelling/longer distances and they can be brought by almost any
>>>>> means of other transportation (small car, bus, tram, train), even
>>>>> during rush hours. And you can take them with you, so they do not get
>>>>> stolen.
>>>>
>>>> Agreed. We've used our folding Bikes Friday multi-modally many times.
>>>> That's even though they prioritize touring ride quality over quick and
>>>> easy fold.
>>>>
>>>> But I admit to thinking more and more about a Brompton.
>>>>
>>> I love the idea of one, though not ridden one though can hire them nr me!
>>>

>>> But I can?t see any use for me for them.

>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>> Folding bikes are not for me. I've always owned a truck. I can and
>> have transported both our Catrikes many times.
>>
>
>Broadly similar, in that I either travel by the bike, or I travel with the
>car/train somewhere.
>
>What I don’t do are sort of mixed commuting or so on that a Brompton excels
>at!
>
>Used to be a young woman at the train station who would arrive on her
>Brompton cup of coffee in hand, fold it cleanly in one motion all decked
>out with purple!
>
>Roger Merriman

Back in the days when was biking on two wheels and living on a boat, I
probably should have had a little folder that I could have stowed
below. My pickup back then didn't have a topper and the bike turned to
rust when I was off on the boat. I also could have used a bike in my
travels...

[John B.]

On Sun, 22 Jan 2023 19:29:46 -0500, Catrike Rider

When we lived aboard I had a cheap "mountain" bike I bought in
Singapore for US$100. We left it on the dock most of the time but it
fell, or someone kicked it, into the ocean and the steel parts rusted
pretty rapidly after that.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Catrike Rider]

On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 09:24:55 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>

I store my Catrike in my truck so it's always ready to go. WE used to
store both of them in the truck, but now her Catrike lives in the
living room on rollers in front of the TV.

I have ridden the five miles from my home to my closest bike trail,
but no longer do that. Half of the ride is on four lanes, which isn't
a problem, but the other half is two narrow heavily traveled 50 MPH
lanes with a wide adjoining cement sidewalk designated as a bike path.
In addition to the regular seams, the sidewalk has multiple sloping
driveways to ride through and with my 90+ psi tires, it's not a
pleasant ride. As for riding two miles on the road, I'm sure that at
15 mph, I would collect a dozen or more angry drivers and risk forcing
an accident.

Easier and safer to drive and the air conditioning on the drive home
is nice.

[Roger Merriman]

That’s one of the reasons I got the Gravel bike, in that it can be ridden
from the door plus is generally unfazed by urban lumps and bumps, and
capable of using some of the forgotten urban spaces if one chooses.

My MTB realistically needs transport to ride somewhere which is also why it
doesn’t get ridden as much, due to the faff level.

Roger Merriman

[Catrike Rider]

On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 19:57:38 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman

>>>>> What I don?t do are sort of mixed commuting or so on that a Brompton excels

I have an idler sprocket with less than four inches of ground
clearance and the offset bike gaps between speed bumps are generally
not wide enough for my 30 inch wide front wheel track. I also have
three tracks to steer clear of potholes and road debris. Planning
ahead is a requirement, but still, for me, the benefits of the Catrike
far outweigh the problems.

My balance is not an issue as I ride, and my otherwise almost constant
sciatica pain is gone about a quarter mile into the ride. it'll
generally be gone for at least 24 hours afterward. The Catrike is so
comfortable that I don't need to get off it for rest stops or phone
calls. Some of my "rest stops" are not really stops, but simply a slow
down to a near effortless, no wobble, 5 or 6 MPH.

[Roger Merriman]

I have noticed the low Derailleur on recumbents, and equally that most
cycling infrastructure tends to be too wide for them to be used, at least
the off road park stuff, the road stuff would be variable.

> My balance is not an issue as I ride, and my otherwise almost constant
> sciatica pain is gone about a quarter mile into the ride. it'll
> generally be gone for at least 24 hours afterward. The Catrike is so
> comfortable that I don't need to get off it for rest stops or phone
> calls. Some of my "rest stops" are not really stops, but simply a slow
> down to a near effortless, no wobble, 5 or 6 MPH.
>

Good to hear, I tend to stop as one of my pleasures is coffee/cake
somewhere nice!

Roger Merriman

[Catrike Rider]

On Mon, 23 Jan 2023 23:23:21 -0000 (UTC), Roger Merriman

>>> That?s one of the reasons I got the Gravel bike, in that it can be ridden

>>> from the door plus is generally unfazed by urban lumps and bumps, and
>>> capable of using some of the forgotten urban spaces if one chooses.
>>>
>>> My MTB realistically needs transport to ride somewhere which is also why it

>>> doesn?t get ridden as much, due to the faff level.

>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>> I have an idler sprocket with less than four inches of ground
>> clearance and the offset bike gaps between speed bumps are generally
>> not wide enough for my 30 inch wide front wheel track. I also have
>> three tracks to steer clear of potholes and road debris. Planning
>> ahead is a requirement, but still, for me, the benefits of the Catrike
>> far outweigh the problems.
>>
>I have noticed the low Derailleur on recumbents, and equally that most
>cycling infrastructure tends to be too wide for them to be used, at least
>the off road park stuff, the road stuff would be variable.

Some trikes, like my wife's Catrike Pocket use a 20 inch rear wheel
which put the derailleur real close to the ground. My Expedition has a
26 inch rear, so my ground problem are the idler sprockets. The
original one has 4 inch clearance, but I added another that hangs a
half inch lower.