2 product suggestions for tire repair
Bill
excellent for repairing torn treads and sidewalls. It comes in clear
for sidewalls and black for fixing treads. It really bonds to the
rubber. Most stores sell the clear stuff, and may not be aware that
black is available. The black version is mfr.'s stock no. 110212,
sold at Ace Hardware as item no. 8258766.
After you patch a tube, take a small artist's paintbrush and paint a
thin line of Rema Tip-Top (you know, the same company that makes the
little, light green patch kits) Cold Vulcanizing Fluid around its
edge. That patch will never leak! It is Rema item no. 203 (8-oz.
can). They may also have a smaller quantity available in a tube.
Sometimes you have to order the less-popular Rema items such as this
online, from a tire repair specialty site.
Clive George
news:0521b6db-4f45-4370...@k13g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> After you patch a tube, take a small artist's paintbrush and paint a
> thin line of Rema Tip-Top (you know, the same company that makes the
> little, light green patch kits) Cold Vulcanizing Fluid around its
> edge. That patch will never leak! It is Rema item no. 203 (8-oz.
> can). They may also have a smaller quantity available in a tube.
> Sometimes you have to order the less-popular Rema items such as this
> online, from a tire repair specialty site.
Or just patch it properly. The edge of a patch shouldn't leak - the Rema
ones are very good at this. 'course you have to remember to put enough area
of glue on the tube first.
Bill
Sometimes the edge does leak, despite one's best efforts. The Tip-Top
C.V.F. soaks under the edge of the patch and makes it adhere like a
bastard!
Clive George
Not really had a problem with that with rema patches if I've covered
sufficient area with the glue. I have sometimes failed in that latter part,
in which case just a bit more glue from the tube has worked well.
(If the edge leaks, you've got it wrong - the middle should be the bit doing
the work)
Dan O
> "Or just patch it properly. The edge of a patch shouldn't leak"
>
> Sometimes the edge does leak, despite one's best efforts. The Tip-Top
The edge itself doesn't leak if you've centered the patch well over
the hole; in that case the whole patch leaks all the way *to* the
edge.
When applying a patch I forcefully roll something over it (a spark
plug socket works really well with e.g. the tube draped over the nose
of saddle, or a plastic bottle cap might be used away from the shop),
rolling outward which kind of stretches the patch edge with the tube
and mashes it into a smoothly melded patch.
someone
Use an alcohol wipe to clean the tube before spreading rubber solution
thinly over the patch area, let solvent evaporate (turns from shine to
matt) apply patch foil side down (remove foil) keeping fingers off
foil side of patch. Burnish patch to tube. Dust exposed solution
with french chalk around patch.
Lou Holtman
My god. I just press it with my thumb and I get a 100% succes score. I
must be doing something 'wrong'.
Lou
Dan O
I just don't like picking glue boogers off my thumb :-)
Tosspot
I'm thinking the same. Thin layer of adhesive, spread over a large
area, apply patch, apply thumb, stretch a bit in all directions,
talc/chalk on the glue, inflate and ride off.
TT
Sounds like overkill and a bit spammy. I've never had a patch fail and
I'm not a fan of repairing tires.
Peter Cole
Me too, 100% in like 200 applications.
Bill
Dan O
Wow, the mere partial description of my tire patching procedure
inspired you to invoke your deity. I must be doing something
right ;-)
>
> > Lou
>
> Me too, 100% in like 200 applications.
Lately my patches have been consistently good, but I've had some that
didn't hold. Granted it's a pretty simple repair, but I've been doing
it with a variety of conditions and patching materials since I was a
little boy, and - not surprisingly - have learned some things along
the way.
Frank Krygowski
> > plug socket works really well with e.g. the tube draped over the nose
> > of saddle, or a plastic bottle cap might be used away from the shop),
> > rolling outward which kind of stretches the patch edge with the tube
> > and mashes it into a smoothly melded patch.
>
> My god. I just press it with my thumb and I get a 100% succes score. I
> must be doing something 'wrong'.
My success rate is above 99%, but the one incident of failure (back in
1975, I think) was annoying enough that I'm usually pretty careful. I
use Dan's "rolling" trick to prevent recurrence.
In my case, the flat was on a remote rural bike tour. The first patch
didn't hold well enough to prevent a leak, but it held well enough
that I couldn't get the remains of the patch off the tube, so another
patch wouldn't seal it. And in those days, I carried no spare tube.
I rode 50 miles by pumping up the slow leak every five miles or so.
Ever since, I've been a slow, careful tube patcher.
OTOH, there's no way I'm going to mess around with Shoe Goo or
artist's paintbrushes.
- Frank Krygowski
Jobst Brandt
>>>> "Or just patch it properly. The edge of a patch shouldn't leak"
>>>> Sometimes the edge does leak, despite one's best efforts. The
>>>> Tip-Top C.V.F. soaks under the edge of the patch and makes it
>>>> adhere...
>>> The edge itself doesn't leak if you've centered the patch well
>>> over the hole; in that case the whole patch leaks all the way *to*
>>> the edge.
>>> When applying a patch I forcefully roll something over it (a spark
>>> plug socket works really well with e.g. the tube draped over the
>>> nose of saddle, or a plastic bottle cap might be used away from
>>> the shop), rolling outward which kind of stretches the patch edge
>>> with the tube and mashes it into a smoothly melded patch.
>> My god. I just press it with my thumb and I get a 100% success
>> score. I must be doing something 'wrong'.
> Me too, 100% in like 200 applications.
As I mentioned, REMA Tip Top split the patch cellophane across its
center so that it can be peeled off from center to edge. Pulling the
cellophane off from an edge of a patch peels it off because the patch
adhesion is not cured. Separation is what occurs if a freshly patched
tube is ridden before the patch is cured and is essentially not
removable. After patching the tube should change places with a "spare
tube", the patched one becoming the spare.
Because (bias ply) bicycle tires massage the patch diagonally,
inflation pressure sees the underside of the patch through the hole
and because tubes are smaller than the tire cross section, they are
stretched and given the opportunity to separate from a patch, will
peel away from it from the center to the edge as inflation air
intrudes into the interface.
When separation reaches the edge of the patch, inflation pressure
stops the process because the tube is pressed firmly against the tire
casing at this juncture with the result being a domed patch, that
separated to its edge causes a slow leak at the diminishingly small
peripheral contact of the orange soft rubber of the REMA patch. A
patch in this condition may work, but I have seen many develop a slow
leak of which domed patches are an indicator.
Before throwing a tube with many patches away, cut through a domed
patch with shears to reveal a talcum filled cavity between patch and
tube.
Jobst Brandt
Jobst Brandt
>>>>> "Or just patch it properly. The edge of a patch shouldn't leak"
>>>>> Sometimes the edge does leak, despite one's best efforts. The
>>>>> Tip-Top C.V.F. soaks under the edge of the patch and makes it
>>>>> adhere...
>>>> The edge itself doesn't leak if you've centered the patch well
>>>> over the hole; in that case the whole patch leaks all the way
>>>> *to* the edge.
>>>> When applying a patch I forcefully roll something over it (a
>>>> spark plug socket works really well with e.g. the tube draped
>>>> over the nose of saddle, or a plastic bottle cap might be used
>>>> away from the shop), rolling outward which kind of stretches the
>>>> patch edge with the tube and mashes it into a smoothly melded
>>>> patch.
>>> My god. I just press it with my thumb and I get a 100% success
>>> score. I must be doing something 'wrong'.
> Wow, the mere partial description of my tire patching procedure
> inspired you to invoke your deity. I must be doing something right.
>> Me too, 100% in like 200 applications.
> Lately my patches have been consistently good, but I've had some
> that didn't hold. Granted it's a pretty simple repair, but I've
> been doing it with a variety of conditions and patching materials
> since I was a little boy, and - not surprisingly - have learned some
> things along the way.
As I mentioned, the REMA patch man at InterBike did not understand his
own patches. After he handed me his "perfectly" patched demo-tube, to
his complete surprise I handed him the patch that came off easily.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/patching.html
Jobst Brandt
jim beam
> Peter Cole wrote:
>
>>>>> "Or just patch it properly. The edge of a patch shouldn't leak"
>
>>>>> Sometimes the edge does leak, despite one's best efforts. The
>>>>> Tip-Top C.V.F. soaks under the edge of the patch and makes it
>>>>> adhere...
>
>>>> The edge itself doesn't leak if you've centered the patch well
>>>> over the hole; in that case the whole patch leaks all the way *to*
>>>> the edge.
>
>>>> When applying a patch I forcefully roll something over it (a spark
>>>> plug socket works really well with e.g. the tube draped over the
>>>> nose of saddle, or a plastic bottle cap might be used away from
>>>> the shop), rolling outward which kind of stretches the patch edge
>>>> with the tube and mashes it into a smoothly melded patch.
>
>>> My god. I just press it with my thumb and I get a 100% success
>>> score. I must be doing something 'wrong'.
>
>> Me too, 100% in like 200 applications.
>
> As I mentioned, REMA Tip Top split the patch cellophane across its
> center so that it can be peeled off from center to edge.
oh, so no repetition of your bullshit about so-called "non-permeable"
cellophane preventing the glue from drying? anyone wold think you're
trying to rob us of the fun of laughing at such a ridiculous mistake.
> Pulling the
> cellophane off from an edge of a patch peels it off because the patch
> adhesion is not cured. Separation is what occurs if a freshly patched
> tube is ridden before the patch is cured and is essentially not
> removable. After patching the tube should change places with a "spare
> tube", the patched one becoming the spare.
>
> Because (bias ply) bicycle tires massage the patch diagonally,
> inflation pressure sees the underside of the patch through the hole
> and because tubes are smaller than the tire cross section, they are
> stretched and given the opportunity to separate from a patch, will
> peel away from it from the center to the edge as inflation air
> intrudes into the interface.
>
> When separation reaches the edge of the patch, inflation pressure
> stops the process because the tube is pressed firmly against the tire
> casing at this juncture with the result being a domed patch, that
> separated to its edge causes a slow leak at the diminishingly small
> peripheral contact of the orange soft rubber of the REMA patch.
complete and utter bullshit.
1. with a patch applied in the correct way, there is no separation.
2. the "dome" is caused by two possible effects:
i. premature application of the patch before the glue is in the
correct condition, thus the tube is stretched when the patch is not.
release of tube pressure means the patch is actually compressed when the
tube relaxes, thus it forms a dome. really freakin' rudimentary.
ii. slow relaxation if the patch material. depending on patch
brand, the red stuff that contacts the tube is more plastic than
elastic, thus it can semi-permanently stretch on tube inflation. see
above for relaxation effects.
why you make up bullshit fantasies to cover up your own lack of
knowledge, ability to analyze and practical inadequacy is just bizarre
jobst. apply the patches exactly per the manufacturer instruction and
you won't have any problems that require your, er, "unique" imagination.
> A
> patch in this condition may work, but I have seen many develop a slow
> leak of which domed patches are an indicator.
nope, it's an indicator of a fool who won't follow instructions!
>
> Before throwing a tube with many patches away, cut through a domed
> patch with shears to reveal a talcum filled cavity between patch and
> tube.
i have. it's not. you're a fool. and you don't know your elastomers,
let alone adhesives.
jim beam
1. patches don't need to be stuck that hard jobst - most of their work
is done by the pressure inside the tube. of course you knew that didn't
you.
2. says the guy that doesn't follow manufacturer instructions!
3. repetition of mythical bullshit doesn't make it suddenly true - it
merely evidences the intractable small mind of a tired old fool that
refuses to learn.
Jobst Brandt
>>> When applying a patch I forcefully roll something over it (a spark
>>> plug socket works really well with e.g. the tube draped over the
>>> nose of saddle, or a plastic bottle cap might be used away from
>>> the shop), rolling outward which kind of stretches the patch edge
>>> with the tube and mashes it into a smoothly melded patch.
>> My god. I just press it with my thumb and I get a 100% success
>> score. I must be doing something 'wrong'.
> My success rate is above 99%, but the one incident of failure (back
> in 1975, I think) was annoying enough that I'm usually pretty
> careful. I use Dan's "rolling" trick to prevent recurrence.
> In my case, the flat was on a remote rural bike tour. The first
> patch didn't hold well enough to prevent a leak, but it held well
> enough that I couldn't get the remains of the patch off the tube, so
> another patch wouldn't seal it. And in those days, I carried no
> spare tube. I rode 50 miles by pumping up the slow leak every five
> miles or so.
You should have taken a hint from the leaky patch removal. By that
time the patch had cured and could not be readily removed. Had you
used a s[pare tube and allowed the freshly patched one to cure, your
success rate would be better.
> Ever since, I've been a slow, careful tube patcher.
What do you mean by "slow" and how did you improve your "care"?
> OTOH, there's no way I'm going to mess around with Shoe Goo or
> artist's paintbrushes.
What does that have to do with REMA patches?
Jobst Brandt
jim beam
what does jobst brandt's inability to read manufacturer instructions
have to do with fabrication of bullshit?
someone
Was it a failure of cohesion or adhesion with the tube (likely)?
someone
> Peter Cole wrote:
> >>>> "Or just patch it properly. The edge of a patch shouldn't leak"
> >>>> Sometimes the edge does leak, despite one's best efforts. The
> >>>> Tip-Top C.V.F. soaks under the edge of the patch and makes it
> >>>> adhere...
> >>> The edge itself doesn't leak if you've centered the patch well
> >>> over the hole; in that case the whole patch leaks all the way *to*
> >>> the edge.
> >>> When applying a patch I forcefully roll something over it (a spark
> >>> plug socket works really well with e.g. the tube draped over the
> >>> nose of saddle, or a plastic bottle cap might be used away from
> >>> the shop), rolling outward which kind of stretches the patch edge
> >>> with the tube and mashes it into a smoothly melded patch.
> >> My god. I just press it with my thumb and I get a 100% success
> >> score. I must be doing something 'wrong'.
> > Me too, 100% in like 200 applications.
>
> As I mentioned, REMA Tip Top split the patch cellophane across its
> center so that it can be peeled off from center to edge. Pulling the
> cellophane off from an edge of a patch peels it off because the patch
> adhesion is not cured.
After it has been under a foil seal for months?
What sort of condition do you think the patch is in?
> Separation is what occurs if a freshly patched
> tube is ridden before the patch is cured and is essentially not
> removable.
Separation of the solution with the tube, or your 'uncured' patches?
> After patching the tube should change places with a "spare
> tube", the patched one becoming the spare.
Wrong, patch in place, the patch then bridges any gap in the casing
which would otherwise require booting to prevent further puncture as
the tube bulges out.
>
> Because (bias ply) bicycle tires massage the patch diagonally,
> inflation pressure sees the underside of the patch through the hole
> and because tubes are smaller than the tire cross section, they are
> stretched and given the opportunity to separate from a patch, will
> peel away from it from the center to the edge as inflation air
> intrudes into the interface.
Thats because you applied the patch before the solution had dried.
The solution dries around the edges on the thinner part of the patch
(despite your best efforts to ensure failure) and a pocket of solution
is left between patch and tube. The movement makes all the solution
transfer to the patch and so does not adhere to the tube as the
solvent passes throught the tube and patch. A greater patch
permeability will encourage this.
>
> When separation reaches the edge of the patch, inflation pressure
> stops the process because the tube is pressed firmly against the tire
> casing at this juncture with the result being a domed patch,
So are you claiming this domed patch which is tight against the tyre
casing causes an egg in your tyre?
> that
> separated to its edge causes a slow leak at the diminishingly small
> peripheral contact of the orange soft rubber of the REMA patch. A
> patch in this condition may work, but I have seen many develop a slow
> leak of which domed patches are an indicator.
So you still persist in inflating your tubes outside of the tyre
casing.
>
> Before throwing a tube with many patches away, cut through a domed
> patch with shears to reveal a talcum filled cavity between patch and
> tube.
But if you ride that same patch for 100,000 miles it becomes a pocket
of gold.
someone
did you find gold or platinum?
someone
> My success rate is above 99%, but the one incident of failure (back in
> 1975, I think) was annoying enough that I'm usually pretty careful. I
> use Dan's "rolling" trick to prevent recurrence.
>
> In my case, the flat was on a remote rural bike tour. The first patch
> didn't hold well enough to prevent a leak, but it held well enough
> that I couldn't get the remains of the patch off the tube, so another
> patch wouldn't seal it. And in those days, I carried no spare tube.
> I rode 50 miles by pumping up the slow leak every five miles or so.
>
> Ever since, I've been a slow, careful tube patcher.
>
> OTOH, there's no way I'm going to mess around with Shoe Goo or
> artist's paintbrushes.
No need. For a quick and reliable repair, use an alcohol swab on the
tube, put a dab of solution to the sde of the patch area. When the
alcohol has evaporated, spread solution thinly with a wooden drinks
stirrer or ice lolly stick. When solution has evaporated pinch tube
with hole centred. Pinch patch and present to the tube
perpendicularly. Unroll patch and push tube towards patch.. This
ensures no gaps. Burnish with a smooth thimble using patch box as
support. The repair can be made in under a minute with everything to
hand, it can be used immediately, saving wheel and tube removal time,
and will last indefinitely. I've applied many methods over the years,
this is both quick and has yet to fail. I like it and use it for my
tub's consistently. Just need to work out a tool so I can't put the
needle through the tube in the last four stitches. :- (
Peter Cole
I just sand the area, rub the sanded area on my bike shorts to clean it,
put a drop of glue on the hole, smear it around well with my finger,
wipe finger on bike shorts, peel patch, press it on with my thumbs. No
failures.
someone
It's pictureform(?) now. He still needs a magnifier.
someone
The ones packed in the bag?
> put a drop of glue on the hole, smear it around well with my finger,
Washed hands?
> wipe finger on bike shorts, peel patch, press it on with my thumbs. No
> failures.
Clean roads eh?
Frank Krygowski
> Frank Krygowski wrote:
> >>> When applying a patch I forcefully roll something over it (a spark
> >>> plug socket works really well with e.g. the tube draped over the
> >>> nose of saddle, or a plastic bottle cap might be used away from
> >>> the shop), rolling outward which kind of stretches the patch edge
> >>> with the tube and mashes it into a smoothly melded patch.
> >> My god. I just press it with my thumb and I get a 100% success
> >> score. I must be doing something 'wrong'.
> > My success rate is above 99%, but the one incident of failure (back
> > in 1975, I think) was annoying enough that I'm usually pretty
> > careful. I use Dan's "rolling" trick to prevent recurrence.
> > In my case, the flat was on a remote rural bike tour. The first
> > patch didn't hold well enough to prevent a leak, but it held well
> > enough that I couldn't get the remains of the patch off the tube, so
> > another patch wouldn't seal it. And in those days, I carried no
> > spare tube. I rode 50 miles by pumping up the slow leak every five
> > miles or so.
>
> You should have taken a hint from the leaky patch removal. By that
> time the patch had cured and could not be readily removed. Had you
> used a s[pare tube and allowed the freshly patched one to cure, your
> success rate would be better.
Perhaps so. These days, It's probably 50/50 whether I patch
immediately, or whether I put in the spare tube. But I've never
patched the flat one _and_ switched to the spare one at the same time.
> > Ever since, I've been a slow, careful tube patcher.
>
> What do you mean by "slow" and how did you improve your "care"?
By "slow" I mean I'm not as fast as most people I ride with. I
improved the care by taking time to be sure I've sanded off all the
mold release. I also tend to wait longer to be more certain the glue
has thoroughly dried before applying the patch. Back in 1975, I
wasn't as diligent about those things. I don't know which of those
issues may have been the problem in that '75 incident, but it hasn't
recurred.
> > OTOH, there's no way I'm going to mess around with Shoe Goo or
> > artist's paintbrushes.
>
> What does that have to do with REMA patches?
It has something to do with the original post in this thread. Read it
to see.
- Frank Krygowski
Tosspot
<snip>
>> No need. For a quick and reliable repair, use an alcohol swab on the
>> tube, put a dab of solution to the sde of the patch area. When the
>> alcohol has evaporated, spread solution thinly with a wooden drinks
>> stirrer or ice lolly stick. When solution has evaporated pinch tube
>> with hole centred. Pinch patch and present to the tube
>> perpendicularly. Unroll patch and push tube towards patch.. This
>> ensures no gaps. Burnish with a smooth thimble using patch box as
>> support. The repair can be made in under a minute with everything to
>> hand, it can be used immediately, saving wheel and tube removal time,
>> and will last indefinitely. I've applied many methods over the years,
>> this is both quick and has yet to fail. I like it and use it for my
>> tub's consistently. Just need to work out a tool so I can't put the
>> needle through the tube in the last four stitches. :- (
>
> I just sand the area, rub the sanded area on my bike shorts to clean it,
> put a drop of glue on the hole, smear it around well with my finger,
> wipe finger on bike shorts, peel patch, press it on with my thumbs. No
> failures.
I've been reading this thread with wide eyed interest. Never, in my
wildest dreams did I think that doing exactly what Pete wrote could be
wrong! I have spent the last days removing the patches on all my
innertubes, bathing them and myself in alcohol, cleaning the room to FS
209D standards, the thimble was a problem, but the local precision parts
manufacturer down the road produced a custom one for me in stainless
steel for a hundred bucks and the LBS has ordered in another 100 pairs
of clean shorts. But I digress, now they have all been patched again
and put back, and appear exactly as they were to the untutoured eye, but
I *know* I have done it right...
FFS it's a bloody innertube patch not a nuclear pressure vessel repair.
Patch it, ride it!
It's wheel thing isn't it. Anything to do with wheels brings out the
best in this froop :-) Which reminds me, those bastards have better
deliver the anti-rotation washers soon or there will be a 'diplomatic
incident'...
Ben C
I usually do end up doing that actually. I want to find the hole in the
tube so I know where to look for the spike in the outer. Having found it
I might as well slap a patch on it. But then I put the other tube in so
as to let the glue dry on the first one (unnecessary, I know, but no
harm in it) and just to sort of rotate my tubes around.
someone
bicycle.tech - two wheeled technology. It is at the hub of (no it's
the tyre) of the mackhine.
datakoll
place 5 patches on rubber tubes or that piece picked off the highway
or two strips with [atches, one heated one not.
time and peel, note
my results are rema et al benefit from curing
that one caws of failure is a series of small blunders adding to an
uncured state and
TT%%***XX!!-