Electric Vehicle Charging Infrastructure

[purushottam gaurav]

The global electric vehicle charging infrastructure market size reached USD 5.64 Billion in 2020 and is expected to register a revenue CAGR of 38.6%. This will keep growing as multiple countries are investing in EV vehicle to reduce pollution and decrease dependency on gas and fuels.

Read more@ https://www.emergenresearch.com/industry-report/electric-vehicle-charging-infrastructure-market

[Tom Kunich]

On Wednesday, May 18, 2022 at 4:08:13 AM UTC-7, purushottam gaurav wrote:
> The global electric vehicle charging infrastructure market size reached USD 5.64 Billion in 2020 and is expected to register a revenue CAGR of 38.6%. This will keep growing as multiple countries are investing in EV vehicle to reduce pollution and decrease dependency on gas and fuels.
>
> Read more@ https://www.emergenresearch.com/industry-report/electric-vehicle-charging-infrastructure-market

1. I have shown the numbers - electric vehicles save NO pollution. They just cixplace it to another area. Toyora's latest motor is actually 4% more efficient and creates less pollution than EV's.
2. Anyone that was interested in actual pollutionless vehicles would be driving and promoting hydrogen powered cars. Since hydrogen can be made pretty cheaply from seawater, and water is nearly everywhere and the results of hydrogen combustion is water and heat, Perhaps you'd like to explain why we should use either an EV or a gas powered more efficient Toyota high efficiency gas motor?
3. We really don't need stock brokers pushing a stock in order to make money off of a group that knows what you are.

[John B.]

And "Tommy the Failure" tells us all about how "He Showed".... A chap
that wasn't intelligent enough to be capable of completing high
school?

Tommy, you are possible capable of "showing" how to put your trousers
on "right side front" but nothing more complex.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[sms]

Tom is wrong of course™, on multiple counts.

The reality is that the production of hydrogen is highly dependent on
the use of fossil fuel, either natural gas for the SMR process, or
electricity for the costlier electrolysis of water process. Generating
electricity to produce hydrogen, then using the hydrogen in a fuel cell
to generate electricity for an electric motor, is less efficient than
just charging batteries with electricity. The big advantage of hydrogen
is that it's much faster to refuel a fuel cell vehicle, minutes instead
of hours.

The other issue with hydrogen is the distribution network. The
distribution network for electricity is already in place, plus it's
relatively easy for a house in much of the country to generate all the
electricity that they require from solar. In other areas wind, hydro,
and solar do not produce GHGs.

Given the average daily mileage of drivers in the U.S., even recharging
overnight with a Level 1 charger (120 volts) would give sufficient range
for daily use. For long trips there is a need for charging
infrastructure. The problem that charging station companies are having
is that the demand for public charging stations to be available is very
high, because of range anxiety, but because the cost per KWH is high at
those stations most EV owners eschew the paid public charging stations
and charge at home instead.

According to an MIT study, electric vehicle production generates greater
emissions than the production of internal combustion or diesel powered
cars, but this is offset by the lower emissions per mile over the life
of the car, even if fossil fuel is used to generate the electricity.
<https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/26/lifetime-emissions-of-evs-are-lower-than-gasoline-cars-experts-say.html>

[AMuzi]

> Tom is wrong of courseâ„¢, on multiple counts.

There's one more problem in that hydrogen is maddeningly
difficult to contain. Customers who work with it report that
everything leaks and the cost (money & time) of storing it
are way out of scale to other compressed gases.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[John B.]

>> Tom is wrong of course™, on multiple counts.

Years and years ago Mercedes experimented with building hydrogen
fueled cars and abandoned the project as impractical largely because
the damned stuff leaks so badly.

More recently they tried again and I believe have given up a second
time
--
Cheers,

John B.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

Not to give any credit whatsoever to Tommy, but I have seen articles about some companies using hydrogen powered vehicles. Delivery fleets or vehicles used at mining operations or on company property. So hydrogen is possible to use as a vehicle fuel source. In certain controlled enterprises. But likely not practical on a wide scale use.

[John B.]

Not to start an argument but can you post a reference to company(s)
using hydrogen? I'm sincerely interested as it would seem to me that
procuring, storing and using hydrogen would be a gigantic "pain in the
arse" and I wonder about why someone would bother.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

Many barriers to hydrogen. Add to those mentioned the
containment weight to fuel weight penalty:

https://advancedfleetmanagementconsulting.com/eng/2021/01/10/hydrogen-9/

Yikes! 36kg tank weight per 1kg fuel. That's severe.

[sms]

On 5/24/2022 6:43 PM, John B. wrote:

<snip>

> Years and years ago Mercedes experimented with building hydrogen
> fueled cars and abandoned the project as impractical largely because
> the damned stuff leaks so badly.
>
> More recently they tried again and I believe have given up a second
> time

Toyota has one hydrogen model. Surprisingly, Toyota which is the world's
largest or second largest automaker (it goes back and forth with VW) has
only one EV available the BZ4X, if it's really available at all:
<https://www.toyota.com/bz4x/> with a mediocre range.

[Tom Kunich]

Andrew - electricity is FAR more maddeningly difficuolt to store safely than hydrogen. If you have a leak it goes nearly straight up even in heavy winds. Jointless containers are now EASILY made and testing them for leaks is fantastically easy. You do not run an ICE on hydrogen, you run a fuel cell on hydrogen and Tesla's engines are now the way to go. Fuel to go 400 miles of more will ALWAYS be impossible on a battery car because the weight and size goes up faster than the mileage gains. But they are far easier with a hydrogen fuel cell car which would be smaller and lighter than a present Tesla sedan.

Northern California has seen what trying to contain electricity causes. Is hydrogen perfectly safe? Don't be led by the nose by Frank's theory that if it isn't perfect it isn't any good at all. I could go on all day about the sick six and their profound misunderstanding of the world around them but that would benefit no one. Frank is not a real engineer and all he has to pass on is garbage.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 5/25/2022 12:01 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> Fuel to go 400 miles of more will ALWAYS be impossible on a battery car because the weight and size goes up faster than the mileage gains.

https://electrek.co/2022/01/05/tesla-model-s-752-miles-range-one-energy-dense-battery-pack/

https://www.tesla.com/blog/model-s-long-range-plus-building-first-400-mile-electric-vehicle
"Starting today, all North American Model S Long Range Plus vehicles
have an official EPA-rated range of 402 miles..."



--
- Frank Krygowski

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_vehicle#Fork_trucks
https://electrek.co/2022/05/06/the-worlds-largest-hydrogen-battery-hybrid-mine-haul-truck-starts-work/
The Wikipedia mentions hydrogen used in many different vehicles.

I thought I had read about hydrogen mining trucks a long time ago. But it seems to be very very very recent. I am very worried my mind is becoming like Tommy's!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[AMuzi]

>>>>>> Tom is wrong of courseâ„¢, on multiple counts.

You probably did read it long ago. Hydrogen fuel has been
'the next thing' since at least the 1960s but implementation
is extremely difficult.

[John B.]

On Wed, 25 May 2022 16:16:10 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"

The reference to Hydrogen seems to be largely in reference to
something called "fuel cells" which seem to be a device to make
electricity which powers the device. I had been thinking of directly
burning hydrogen in an internal combustion engine.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Roger Merriman]

Yup, there is a few though not many such cars around here, as london does
have a hydrogen fuel station, only a handful in the county.

Plenty more EV’s including one in the street.

Roger Merriman

[Roger Merriman]

Tesla used to have a range calculator with temp/speed to calculate range.

I’m told that stop start traffic EV’s do well ie maximum range, vs
motorways where the range can drop, which to a extent is reverse for ICE
cars, certainly my old Volvo it’s estimated range will extend once it’s
rolling along at 70ish on the motorways where as shorter urban drives will
really pull the range down.

Though it’s favoured is slower cross country drives ie 50/60mph on smaller
roads which I’d expect both types to do well at.

Uk has lots motorway charging though they are still unreliable vs fuel
pumps.

Roger Merriman

[Tom Kunich]

Most people don't have the chemistry to understand hydrogen combustion. Energy fhrough chemical means requires mass and hydrogen has very little mass and hence is a bad idea for internal combustion engines. That is why it has always been the next great thing that never was. Frank could have told you that if he had any education at all but plainly he hasn't or whatever he did have disappeared long ago during some boring lecture he was giving to put his students to sleep.

However, hydrogen is a good means of storing energy that can be converted to electicity via fuel cells and that makes a light means of carrying a superior battery that can be replentished at the nearest "gas" station which can use power line electricity to convery water into O and H2. Because of the small but present danger, a perfect battery or super capacitor might be a better means but at the moment I haven't actually seen these batteries and they are selling stock in several companies that say they have the perfect battery but haven't actually demonstrated them.

[sms]

On 5/28/2022 5:44 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:

<snip>

> Tesla used to have a range calculator with temp/speed to calculate range.
>
> I’m told that stop start traffic EV’s do well ie maximum range, vs
> motorways where the range can drop, which to a extent is reverse for ICE
> cars, certainly my old Volvo it’s estimated range will extend once it’s
> rolling along at 70ish on the motorways where as shorter urban drives will
> really pull the range down.
>
> Though it’s favoured is slower cross country drives ie 50/60mph on smaller
> roads which I’d expect both types to do well at.
>
> Uk has lots motorway charging though they are still unreliable vs fuel
> pumps.
>
> Roger Merriman

Tom is wrong of course™ regarding the range of electric cars.

There are already models with over 500 miles of range, as well as a
bunch with 400 miles of range. The range is comparable to gasoline
powered vehicles. The big difference is 5 minutes to completely refuel a
gasoline powered car versus a little more than an hour to charge a Tesla
to 100% on a supercharger. On a trip from San Francisco to Los Angeles
you'd definitely need to charge an electric vehicle once, at least
partially.

[John B.]

On Sat, 28 May 2022 11:31:18 -0700, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

If, one sets out on a drive, say from New York City to Sam Francisco,
is it a problem finding re-charge stations.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Roger Merriman]

I’d assume that most folks realistically wouldn’t chose to drive for x
days, unless it’s a road trip say.

I guess you’d pick hotels with charging? Uk has charging at services so is
distance assuming it’s not one of the early 100 ish mile cars isn’t such a
problem, ie sooner or later you are going to need to stop anyway. The
gotchas from folks I know with EV’s are occasionally the charger doesn’t
work plus faff using the apps etc.

Personally the absolute range is enough but not having off street parking
charging locally isn’t a option so any EV would need the occasional trip to
charge which i suspect would get tedious!

Trips west to wales etc, not so much a problem due to the above chargers on
the motorways but locally would be less fun.

Roger Merriman

[Frank Krygowski]

https://www.engadget.com/2017-07-09-electric-car-coast-to-coast-us-record.html

It takes planning, much more than with a gasoline vehicle. But there are
numerous apps that help locate charging stations, and even make
recommendations on when, where and how long you should stop to recharge
based on the characteristics of your particular electric vehicle.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[sms]

On 5/28/2022 4:13 PM, John B. wrote:

<snip>

> If, one sets out on a drive, say from New York City to Sam Francisco,
> is it a problem finding re-charge stations.

Not really, but you need to plan your route, see
<https://afdc.energy.gov/fuels/electricity_locations.html#/find/nearest?fuel=ELEC>.

Of course this kind of trip is pretty rare.

[AMuzi]

end of 2021 it was Audi 25h 39min, Tesla at 42h 17min.

https://autowise.com/cannonball-run-record/

Both have since been broken but I couldn't find those times
quickly.

[Rolf Mantel]

Am 29.05.2022 um 01:42 schrieb Roger Merriman:
> Personally the absolute range is enough but not having off street parking
> charging locally isn’t a option so any EV would need the occasional trip to
> charge which i suspect would get tedious!

It turns out not to be a problem, with the wife shopping at ALDI once a
week. 30 mins fast-charge while shopping is good for 150 miles or so.

[sms]

On 5/28/2022 4:42 PM, Roger Merriman wrote:

<snip>

> Personally the absolute range is enough but not having off street parking
> charging locally isn’t a option so any EV would need the occasional trip to
> charge which i suspect would get tedious!
>
> Trips west to wales etc, not so much a problem due to the above chargers on
> the motorways but locally would be less fun.

In my area there's no shortage of public chargers but the cost per KWH
is pretty high.

In California, developers have been lobbying to forbid cities to require
off-street parking in new housing projects. This is a big problem for
electric vehicle owners. Most people will still have cars even if they
place they live has no parking and no charging, they'll just park on the
street in adjoining neighborhoods. Not being able to charge their
vehicle overnight is a big hassle.

The problem is that the entities with a lot of money get these laws,
that benefit themselves financially, passed by donating money to
legislators. We all suffer as a result, but as is often the case, those
in lower economic situations suffer the most from these laws. The
justification that is used for these laws is "if we don't provide
parking then everyone will have to use public transit."

[Roger Merriman]

There is Lidl with charging not too far away though again that would be a
trip to charge as day to day I use the bike. And while I do go places these
aren’t generally served by chargers.

But realistically I do low miles so the cost of charging doesn’t make
financial sense, nor probably buying a new or newer car from a green point
of view.

There is also the fact that big estates that can swallow bikes and bits,
aren’t a market served by EV’s yet probably soon as Volvo have started
making on SUV thus far.

Roger Merriman