Need help ID'ing Vintage Guerciotti
Phil, Squid-in-Training
about these bikes that were born in the same year as I. I do know however,
that it's in good shape and it's got all Campy Record components on it.
I'm wondering if any of you guys here can tell me more about the history of
the componentry or the frame, Guerciotti, his company, etc. Basically I'd
like to know everything about this bike so that I can let potential bidders
know.
I apologize for spamming the group so blatantly, but since I already have
the auction up on eBay, I may as well just post the auction pictures here so
that you vintage types might help me. They're pretty detailed so you can
probably get a good idea of what parts are on there.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7224566690
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training
Phil, Squid-in-Training
I forgot to mention that I'm lazy and didn't want to do a thumbnail gallery
so there are 35 high-res photos in the auction listing which may slow your
computer down if you're running a lot of stuff. I figured that collectors
who can buy these bikes can afford a fast computer with a big screen on fast
internet.
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training
Werehatrack
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
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Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
Diablo Scott
> So a friend of mine is selling his 1984 Guerciotti.
Guerciotti bikes were imported by Ten Speed Drive in the mid '80s along
with Ciocc and a few others so they were pretty popular for a while.
This frame with Super Record probably went for less than $1200 in 1984.
Nice bikes but they don't seem to attract much interest from collectors
the way some names do.
Looks way more beat up than the "200 miles" your ad claims - especially
seat tube decals - can't even read the Columbus sticker. Rust at drop
outs and various component attachments diminish the value. Drop out
adjusters broken off.
Nobody will buy it unless you tell them the size - looks like a 58.
You're supposed to ask for this kind of info BEFORE you post on eBay -
but I enjoyed looking at the photos.
Tom Ace
> I'm wondering if any of you guys here can tell me more about the history of
> the componentry or the frame, Guerciotti, his company, etc. Basically I'd
> like to know everything about this bike so that I can let potential bidders
> know.
I bought a Guerciotti in 1979 from the importer (Ten Speed
Drive Imports) for $265 (frame only). The frame was OK,
I still have it. It's Columbus SL; if I remember correctly,
Guerciotti's shop was located near the Columbus factory.
The fork was a travesty. It had what looked like
reinforcing tangs brazed to the insides of the fork tubes
near the crown, but they weren't connected to the crown
and were thus purely cosmetic. I broke a fork tube at the
point between the crown and the top of the worthless tang.
The tube broke from the stress of hard front braking.
Tom Ace
Tom Ace
I wrote:
> I bought a Guerciotti in 1979 from the importer (Ten Speed
> Drive Imports) for $265 (frame only).
Oops; I checked the receipt, and $265 wasn't just
for frame + fork, but also included a Campi headset.
Tom Ace
Phil, Squid-in-Training
> Immediate first impression: $2K as an opening bid? Dream on!
A similar one outfitted identically went for $2.2k several months ago on
eBay. If I hadn't seen it for myself I wouldn't have believed it.
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training
Phil, Squid-in-Training
> Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
>
>> So a friend of mine is selling his 1984 Guerciotti.
>
>
> Guerciotti bikes were imported by Ten Speed Drive in the mid '80s
> along with Ciocc and a few others so they were pretty popular for a
> while. This frame with Super Record probably went for less than $1200
> in 1984.
Interesting... thanks.
> Nice bikes but they don't seem to attract much interest from
> collectors the way some names do.
A Paramount outfitted similarly got almost $4k recently.
> Looks way more beat up than the "200 miles" your ad claims -
> especially seat tube decals - can't even read the Columbus sticker. Rust
> at drop outs and various component attachments diminish the
> value. Drop out adjusters broken off.
Keep in mind that I'm doing this on consignment (I hate myself, don't I?)
and it's not my own bike up on the chopping block. I get my info
second-hand, the owner tells me one thing, I have to judge another... the
seat tube decals are arguably worn off. I'm guessing the owner didn't know
that a pump or some other accessory was rubbing it away. I can't do much
about the rust, but I would guess that 22 years could take its toll on steel
parts. Thanks for noticing the adjusters though. The chain (it looks
original) still measures a nice .5 on the Park chain stretch gauge.
> Nobody will buy it unless you tell them the size - looks like a 58.
>
> You're supposed to ask for this kind of info BEFORE you post on eBay -
I didn't have the time. Besides, exams, homework and job offers take
precedence. You know/knew how it was in college.
> but I enjoyed looking at the photos.
I hope they didn't only serve to make the bike look worse than it does in
person. That's the problem with macro photos... on one hand, you get all
the detail, but on the other hand, you get all the detail.
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training
Sorni
Still ridiculous.
(The deal?)
Heck no. THAT YOU STILL HAVE A RECEIPT FROM 1979!
Bill "not sure I have the receipt from the car I bought yesterday" S.
Phil, Squid-in-Training
What car was it?
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training
Sorni
A really yellow one.
Bill "S2K" S.
Werehatrack
<phil_leeIHEA...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Werehatrack wrote:
>> Immediate first impression: $2K as an opening bid? Dream on!
>
>A similar one outfitted identically went for $2.2k several months ago on
>eBay. If I hadn't seen it for myself I wouldn't have believed it.
Beware of those impressions. Many bikes that are "sold" for high
prices on eBay end up becoming nightmares for the seller. You've
short-circuited about half the potential ripoff artists by not making
international sale (except to Canada) an option, but I can just about
guarantee that you'll get at least one inquiry to the effect of "can
we pick this up and pay for it with a cashier's check?" If you get
such an inquiry, tell them, in polite but unequivocal terms, that you
accept only cashier's checks drawn on US banks, and that you will
independently verify the check, and must wait for the funds to clear
into your account before releasing the bike. Better yet, go into the
listing now, before you get the first bid, and make the payment terms
"cash or PayPal" so that you don't have to worry about a fake
cashier's check showing up. Believe it or not, this is such a common
scam that local banks here in Houston will not credit a C-check to an
account until they have received the funds transfer. Just as common
is the "We'll pick it up and pay with a money order" rip; the
accomplice typically arrives with a money order for $800 more than the
price of the bike, and the purchaser glibly says it's a silly mistake
and asks you to just give them the difference in cash; sometimes they
even offer an extra hundred for the trouble. The money order always
bounces. *Always*. (The overpayment rip occurs with C-checks as
well.) There are dozens of additional pitfalls in selling high-priced
bikes. Be prepared to have to list it three times before you actually
get a genuine buyer that follows through. Starting the bidding at $2K
will attract the scammers like flies to a ripe possum.
Werehatrack
wrote:
Moonlighting as a taxi driver?
andresmuro
Phil: I have to agree with diablo's assessment. A columbus SL tubed
italian bike with campy super record sold for about $1200 new in the
early eighties. some were a little more and some a little less.
Andres
Dave Mayer
"Phil, Squid-in-Training" <phil_leeIHEA...@hotmail.com> wrote in
message news:yf6Pf.479663$0l5.18144@dukeread06...
> Werehatrack wrote:
>> Immediate first impression: $2K as an opening bid? Dream on!
>
> A similar one outfitted identically went for $2.2k several months ago on
> eBay. If I hadn't seen it for myself I wouldn't have believed it.
>
Yikes.. I bought an early 90's Guerciotti in mint condition at a yard sale
last spring. 8-Speed Dura-Ace STI with some nice Campy wheels. $400
Canadian pesos. I only bought it because I knew a pal of mine was willing
to give up his first born for the very specific Cinelli bar/stem combo that
this bike came with.
Maybe the cost is lower due to pink paint. I'd sell this for $2.2k anytime.
Phil, Squid-in-Training
> On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 21:30:55 -0500, "Phil, Squid-in-Training"
> <phil_leeIHEA...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Werehatrack wrote:
>>> Immediate first impression: $2K as an opening bid? Dream on!
>>
>> A similar one outfitted identically went for $2.2k several months
>> ago on eBay. If I hadn't seen it for myself I wouldn't have
>> believed it.
>
> Beware of those impressions.
With the way eBay works, there have to be two people bidding against each
other to drive up the price. Unless a scammer was working using two
usernames or two scammers working together, this isn't likely.
I'm very well aquainted with scammer tactics. Sometimes if I'm bored, I'll
play along for my own entertainment. I put this in some of my recent
auctions:
------------------
Dear budding and veteran scammers: I know all of your tricks; it is no use
trying to scam me... Any scam e-mails will simply be forwarded to eBay/FBI,
and any extravagant money orders sent my way will simply be torn up and
thrown away. It's so obvious when it's a scam it's not even funny. Really.
Don't even bother contacting me to see if I'll bite. I'm only going to
humiliate you.
------------------
That has pretty much eliminated scams in my inbox.
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training
Phil, Squid-in-Training
Again, since this is not my bike, and the owner's request was for $2k, I
have no choices on the pricing.
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training
Phil, Squid-in-Training
Oooohhhhh. Before I got my own Honda, I wanted an S2000. Well, I still do.
But I got a Honda with a higher redline (13k) than even the S2000. And it's
10 years older:
http://plaza.ufl.edu/phillee/cbr4.jpg
Okay so it's cheating...
How is the S2k? Is it tuned like a motorcycle with a big kick in the pants
at 7k? Or is it more like a regular car? Most importantly, how well does
it carry the MTB?
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training
Werehatrack
<phil_leeIHEA...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Werehatrack wrote:
>> On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 21:30:55 -0500, "Phil, Squid-in-Training"
>> <phil_leeIHEA...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Werehatrack wrote:
>>>> Immediate first impression: $2K as an opening bid? Dream on!
>>>
>>> A similar one outfitted identically went for $2.2k several months
>>> ago on eBay. If I hadn't seen it for myself I wouldn't have
>>> believed it.
>>
>> Beware of those impressions.
>
>With the way eBay works, there have to be two people bidding against each
>other to drive up the price. Unless a scammer was working using two
>usernames or two scammers working together, this isn't likely.
Not unknown, though; an acquintance had to re-list a Nikon
wide-aperture telephoto lens when both of the top bidders turned out
to be scamsters. Good on yer for the "bugger off" note, though.
Hope the bike gets a bid. You're braver than I'd have been.
G.T.
Ack. Another chick car?
Greg
--
"All my time I spent in heaven
Revelries of dance and wine
Waking to the sound of laughter
Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons
Sorni
>>> What car was it?
Only got it yesterday; still need to get a feel for it before the fun
starts. (And no, I kept the Rav4 -- a /senior citizen/ SUV not a /chick/
SUV -- to haul bikes, groceries, etc.)
My beloved old 3000GT VR4 flunked smog inspection and had some other issues
(even only 67,000 miles and looked like new still), so had to decide whether
to fix it, replace it, or replace BOTH vehicles and get a "real" (nice) SUV.
By buying the S2000 I'm keeping a death grip on youth a while longer.
(Could have bought class with an SLK 350, virility with a 350Z, penile
enhancement with a Corvette, or...???)
Bill "and Greg's Xterra is a lesbo vehicle" S.
Diablo Scott
>
> A Paramount outfitted similarly got almost $4k recently.
>
I found this one in the COMPLETED AUCTIONS:
**********
1969 Schwinn Paramount w/ Campagnolo 1st Gen. Brakes
All Chrome 20" with Clement Campionato Del Mondo Seta!
Item number: 7219099201
*************
Sold on Feb 22 for $3650
No feedback yet on the sale from either party but they both seem to be
legit.
Also from the ad: **************
Vintage original 1969 all chrome Schwinn Paramount in pristine
condition, serial number L916, 20" center to top with a 21" top tube.
Full Campy Record and Nuovo Record throughout.
Includes original rare "PATENT" rear derailleur, and original rare
Campagnolo brakeset with no engraving on the caliper arms. The tires are
virtually new Clement Campionato Del Mondo Seta with Wienmann rims.
Campy bar end shifters. Old log Cinelli bars have been drilled for
internal routing of the cable housing. Campy seatpost has custom milled
fluting. Brooks Team Professional saddle has been custom cut,
"butchered". Bar tape is new, otherwise this bike is 100% correct and
original. This bike has the original owner's name on the top tube.
********************
So this bike is quite different from the Guerciotti. There's another
Guerciotti on eBay that's getting zero bids at half that number. Your
friend isn't being realistic about his asking price.
RonSonic
<phil_leeIHEA...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Werehatrack wrote:
>> Immediate first impression: $2K as an opening bid? Dream on!
>
>A similar one outfitted identically went for $2.2k several months ago on
>eBay. If I hadn't seen it for myself I wouldn't have believed it.
That part we believe. The bike's worth every dime of it, looks like it fell out
of the old catalog:
http://www.classicrendezvous.com./Italy/Guerciotti/Guerc_sr_bike.htm
Auction psychology being what it is, an item that is worth and will often sell
for 3K might get no bids if the opening is 2K . OTOH, it could go for 3.5 if
you start it at 1 or less.
Then again, being gorgeous and spring starting to visit, it might go. But if it
doesn't, don't think that it won't get that kind of money, instead it might need
a lower opening bid to get people involved.
Ron
G.T.
> Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
>
>>Sorni wrote:
>>
>>>Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
>>>
>>>>Sorni wrote:
>
>
>>>>>Bill "not sure I have the receipt from the car I bought yesterday"
>>>>>S.
>
>
>>>>What car was it?
>
>
>>>A really yellow one.
>>>Bill "S2K" S.
>
>
>>Oooohhhhh. Before I got my own Honda, I wanted an S2000. Well, I
>>still do. But I got a Honda with a higher redline (13k) than even the
>>S2000. And it's 10 years older:
>>
>>http://plaza.ufl.edu/phillee/cbr4.jpg
>>
>>Okay so it's cheating...
>>
>>How is the S2k? Is it tuned like a motorcycle with a big kick in the
>>pants at 7k? Or is it more like a regular car? Most importantly,
>>how well does it carry the MTB?
>
>
> Only got it yesterday; still need to get a feel for it before the fun
> starts. (And no, I kept the Rav4 -- a /senior citizen/ SUV not a /chick/
> SUV -- to haul bikes, groceries, etc.)
>
> My beloved old 3000GT VR4 flunked smog inspection and had some other issues
Bummer.
> (even only 67,000 miles and looked like new still), so had to decide whether
> to fix it, replace it, or replace BOTH vehicles and get a "real" (nice) SUV.
> By buying the S2000 I'm keeping a death grip on youth a while longer.
> (Could have bought class with an SLK 350, virility with a 350Z, penile
> enhancement with a Corvette, or...???)
>
> Bill "and Greg's Xterra is a lesbo vehicle" S.
>
Hahaha, it will be the Yin to my soon to arrive 350Z.
Alex Rodriguez
phil_leeIHEA...@hotmail.com says...
>
>
>Werehatrack wrote:
>> Immediate first impression: $2K as an opening bid? Dream on!
>
>A similar one outfitted identically went for $2.2k several months ago on
>eBay. If I hadn't seen it for myself I wouldn't have believed it.
Nice bike, but not $2k nice. Lots of bits have rust that will detract from the
final selling price.
-------------
Alex
Sorni
> Sorni wrote:
>> {snip} By buying the S2000 I'm keeping a death grip on
>> youth a while longer. (Could have bought class with an SLK 350,
>> virility with a 350Z, penile enhancement with a Corvette, or...???)
>> Bill "and Greg's Xterra is a lesbo vehicle" S.
> Hahaha, it will be the Yin to my soon to arrive 350Z.
"Yin"? The MB dealership had a gorgeous '05 black convertible Z with only
9500 miles for a full $10K less than a new one, but A) I already owned a
black convertible (Mustang GT) once; and B) it had some right front end
damage to the plastic spoiler, and I realized I'd trash it further the way I
tend to corner (and park!). (Plus, the top operation seemed slow and
cumbersome to me -- overly complicated.)
Test drove the S2000 and it just felt right: quick, tight, nimble...next
best thing to {insert unobtainable actress' name here}.
Bill "the cup-holders suck though (in way of shifter!)" S.
Ozark Bicycle
Agreed. A few hours spent detailing that bike could raise the selling
price significantly.
Jay Beattie
Also looks like the drop-out adjuster screw caps are gone (not much to
replace, I'll sell the buyer my spares for $1K or less) and possibly
some rust under the paint on the down tube near the head lug.
These bikes were as common as fleas in the 70s/80s, along with sundry
Colnagos, Ciocc, Gios, etc.,etc. No particular cachet like De Rosa or
Masi. Once you strip the paint to cure the rust, it is just another SL
frame with crummy NR/SR components -- no sealed anything, cranks that
break (I broke three or four, who knows, I lost count), friction
shifting six-speed, 26.4 bars and what looks to be a Cinelli 1R,
perhaps the worst stem ever made (it uses a wedge that presses against
the bars -- or at least it is supposed to), 13mm box wrench needed for
seat angle adjustments -- not likely something you have in your seat
bag if you need to fine tune. And don't get me going on toe clips and
those SR pedals. I used those back in the metal cleat days and ate up
the cages, like everyone else. But, I guess, there are collectors who
like these things. -- Jay Beattie.