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Repair bead/sidewall separation?
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Scott Gordo
Dec 17, 2012, 1:24:12 PM12/17/12
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I hit a sharp end of something during a longish out-and-back ride, and sliced a Michelin across. Bought a brand new Conti Gatorskin tire at a shop. It was a little tight on the rim, but I got it on. Unfortunately, I was in a bit of a rush and don't think that I got all of the inner tube into the tire (I know I know). It looked good when I pumped it up but herniated and blew out.
When it blew out, the force tore the sidewall off of the bead. The sidewall looks good expect for the part that wraps over a few cm of the now exposed wire.
I'm considering busting out the needle and thread and taking a crack at it. I'm considering it pretty much a lost cause, but wanted to know if anyone had any suggestions.
Muchos gracias.
Scott
When it blew out, the force tore the sidewall off of the bead. The sidewall looks good expect for the part that wraps over a few cm of the now exposed wire.
I'm considering busting out the needle and thread and taking a crack at it. I'm considering it pretty much a lost cause, but wanted to know if anyone had any suggestions.
Muchos gracias.
Scott
frkr...@gmail.com
Dec 17, 2012, 5:32:50 PM12/17/12
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I don't have a lot of experience with blowouts (as opposed to punctures); I can remember only about four true blowouts in 40 years. But my understanding is that commonly, they're caused by the bead unhooking from the rim, perhaps because it wasn't seated properly, i.e. the tire wasn't installed straight all the way around. Anyway, if the bead unhooks, the tube balloons out between tire bead and rim, and blows. But AFAICT that shouldn't cause any damage to the sidewall-to-bead connection. It didn't on my few blowouts.
If the tire's sidewall ripped away from the bead on its own - maybe from a manufacturing defect - then of course the tube would explode out of the rip. But that reverses cause and effect.
I suppose it's possible that you damaged the sidewall when you had trouble installing it, too. You mentioned the fit being tight.
I wonder about talking to the shop where you bought the tire. I had some Continental touring tires whose sidewalls developed bubbles, and I think I'm not the only one who experienced sidewall problems with that brand.
I don't think I'd trust a sewing job in that situation. I've sewn sidewalls a couple times in sort of emergency touring situation (no bike shop anywhere close), but the damage was nowhere near the bead, and I also did multi-layer boots to reinforce the repair. And I still bought a replacement tire as soon as possible.
- Frank Krygowski
James
Dec 17, 2012, 6:31:29 PM12/17/12
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If desperate, depending on the extent of the damage, I think I would try
to glue a piece of very strong but thin fabric on the inside, and wrap
it around the bead and glue to the outside as well.
You could, I suppose, try to sew the edges of the failed sidewall
together first, and cover the stitches with the the glued on fabric for
reinforcing, but the fabric in the tyre may not have cross threads for
your needle work to get any purchase on.
You'll want a glue that is both strong and flexible. I'm sure you could
find something.
I wouldn't trust the tyre at full pressure any longer either. It's a
tough one, but on the back you will need more pressure to keep the rim
off the ground, but in the front if it blows out again you might crash.
I would throw it away.
--
JS
datakoll
Dec 17, 2012, 6:47:40 PM12/17/12
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HAPPENS. YOU ARE NOT ALONE.
no fixo. there's a fix but as said OIYD. Uneeda tube section wrapping around the to be good tube, cement everthing together after cleaning surfaces with 3 rags/CHOH with outdoors shoe goooo from HD or Lowes or Wal. THEN ALLOW TO CURE.
It rolls but out of balance.
On mounting. Clean and inspect all surfaces incl under the clincher lip. Use talc on tube if a long distance rider. Spray tire sidewalls with CRC Silicone. (Wal)
place rim and tore on lap. Squeeze beads onto rim with thumbs/.fingers beginning at your tummy. Do thgis 3 times then INSERT A TIRE LEVER INTO THE SIDE AWAY FROM TUMMY AND PRY OUTWARD N HOOK LEVER ONTO SPOKE.
Then try squeexing bead and carcass to the tire lever. Place 2 more levers out there and hook.
be sure now that the tube is inside more orless in position, all the bead is under the rim then work the left over levers to mount the tire from the first inserted lever then clockwise....most brains op clockwise.
AT NO TIME FORCE ANY BEAD RUBBER UNDER THE RIM. BE GENTLE.
Lever, pry lever pry lever pry
then squeeze outward several more times and
its on.
IHS
no fixo. there's a fix but as said OIYD. Uneeda tube section wrapping around the to be good tube, cement everthing together after cleaning surfaces with 3 rags/CHOH with outdoors shoe goooo from HD or Lowes or Wal. THEN ALLOW TO CURE.
It rolls but out of balance.
On mounting. Clean and inspect all surfaces incl under the clincher lip. Use talc on tube if a long distance rider. Spray tire sidewalls with CRC Silicone. (Wal)
place rim and tore on lap. Squeeze beads onto rim with thumbs/.fingers beginning at your tummy. Do thgis 3 times then INSERT A TIRE LEVER INTO THE SIDE AWAY FROM TUMMY AND PRY OUTWARD N HOOK LEVER ONTO SPOKE.
Then try squeexing bead and carcass to the tire lever. Place 2 more levers out there and hook.
be sure now that the tube is inside more orless in position, all the bead is under the rim then work the left over levers to mount the tire from the first inserted lever then clockwise....most brains op clockwise.
AT NO TIME FORCE ANY BEAD RUBBER UNDER THE RIM. BE GENTLE.
Lever, pry lever pry lever pry
then squeeze outward several more times and
its on.
IHS
datakoll
Dec 17, 2012, 6:53:23 PM12/17/12
to
NOT CLEAR. in pushing squeezing bead to point away from tummy to the mounted n hookes lever(s) ura bring the beads under/into the rim as mounted working the inserting bead both left and right assuming yawl have 2 hands left squeezing outward and inserting into position to the lever at the opposite point tummy.
Then lacking finger n hand strength caws ura weakling use the levers to pry last beads under but DOAHN RIP THE RUBBER OFF.
PRY ONLY.
Know the tire lever on a radius rod where the lever runs along the rim forcing the bead under as it runs on the radius rod.
DOAHN DO THAT
Sir Ridesalot
Dec 17, 2012, 10:32:22 PM12/17/12
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On Monday, December 17, 2012 1:24:12 PM UTC-5, Scott Gordo wrote:
I'd take the tire back to the store you bought it from. A torn sidewall at the bead like you describe MIGHT be repairable for an EMERGENCY LOW PRESSURE ride home but I wouldn't trust it for long. I think that tire will have a tendancy to continue to tear along the damaged side. When will it tear? Murphy says at the worst possible time.
See what the bike shop says. If no satisfaction there you might consider shipping it to Continental and see what they have to say about it.
Cheers
Frank Krygowski
Dec 17, 2012, 11:21:21 PM12/17/12
to
On Dec 17, 6:47 pm, datakoll <datak...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> ...
silicone or other lubricant on a bike tire. (Motorcycle tires, OTOH,
need any help they can get.)
Based on my experience, lots of cyclists don't know to shift the bead
(at 6 o'clock on the rim) as close to the spoke nipples as possible
before trying to pry the last bit of bead into place (at 12 o'clock on
the rim), as DK describes above. They think in terms of stretching
the bead over the rim at 12 o'clock. But the bead isn't stretchable
to any practical degree. Doing as DK describes usually lets me
install a tire bare handed.
- Frank Krygowski
>
> ...
> On mounting. Clean and inspect all surfaces incl under the clincher lip. Use talc on tube if a long distance rider. Spray tire sidewalls with CRC Silicone. (Wal)
>
> place rim and tore on lap. Squeeze beads onto rim with thumbs/.fingers beginning at your tummy. Do thgis 3 times then INSERT A TIRE LEVER INTO THE SIDE AWAY FROM TUMMY AND PRY OUTWARD N HOOK LEVER ONTO SPOKE.
>
> Then try squeexing bead and carcass to the tire lever. Place 2 more levers out there and hook.
>
> be sure now that the tube is inside more orless in position, all the bead is under the rim then work the left over levers to mount the tire from the first inserted lever then clockwise....most brains op clockwise.
>
> AT NO TIME FORCE ANY BEAD RUBBER UNDER THE RIM. BE GENTLE.
>
> Lever, pry lever pry lever pry
>
> then squeeze outward several more times and
>
> its on.
All of that's pretty important, although I've never needed to use any
>
> place rim and tore on lap. Squeeze beads onto rim with thumbs/.fingers beginning at your tummy. Do thgis 3 times then INSERT A TIRE LEVER INTO THE SIDE AWAY FROM TUMMY AND PRY OUTWARD N HOOK LEVER ONTO SPOKE.
>
> Then try squeexing bead and carcass to the tire lever. Place 2 more levers out there and hook.
>
> be sure now that the tube is inside more orless in position, all the bead is under the rim then work the left over levers to mount the tire from the first inserted lever then clockwise....most brains op clockwise.
>
> AT NO TIME FORCE ANY BEAD RUBBER UNDER THE RIM. BE GENTLE.
>
> Lever, pry lever pry lever pry
>
> then squeeze outward several more times and
>
> its on.
silicone or other lubricant on a bike tire. (Motorcycle tires, OTOH,
need any help they can get.)
Based on my experience, lots of cyclists don't know to shift the bead
(at 6 o'clock on the rim) as close to the spoke nipples as possible
before trying to pry the last bit of bead into place (at 12 o'clock on
the rim), as DK describes above. They think in terms of stretching
the bead over the rim at 12 o'clock. But the bead isn't stretchable
to any practical degree. Doing as DK describes usually lets me
install a tire bare handed.
- Frank Krygowski
James
Dec 18, 2012, 12:44:12 AM12/18/12
to
on at the valve. Then rest the wheel on the ground at the valve, and
work from the top squeezing beads together and simultaneously pulling
the tyre down around the circumference until I get to the valve area,
and usually there is enough tyre to push the remainder over the rim and on.
Some tyres are tighter than others.
Some rims have less valley in the middle.
Some wheels have rim tape fitted that is quite thick.
There's plenty of variation.
--
JS.
Message has been deleted
thirty-six
Dec 18, 2012, 1:20:55 PM12/18/12
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On 18 Dec, 05:57, Phil W Lee <p...@lee-family.me.uk> wrote:
> Scott Gordo <blubberp...@gmail.com> considered Mon, 17 Dec 2012
> Take it back.
> Conti stand behind their tyres, and will replace it unless there are
> clear signs of damage from brake block rubbing or poor mounting
> technique.
> I think (as others have said) you have cause and effect reversed.
> Once a tube is blistering out from between bead and rim, what force is
> going to tear the sidewall of the tyre?
The mudguard clips. It wasn't untl after I returned the tyre did I
realise the tyre itself not to be at fault. Finding the new tyre
rising off the rim before my eyes caused me to look closely at the
tyre mounting where the tyre lifted. It was where the fabric rim tape
overlapped. From then on, when installing fabric tape onto dual wall
rims, I use scissors to leave 1/16" gap between the tape's ends.
> I had a Schwalbe Marathon fail the same way, but it was the (old) one
> that was on my tourer when I got it, so I have no idea of it's
> history. I only trusted my bandage as a means of finishing that day's
> ride though, and it was badly out of balance and I would never have
> had any confidence in it.
> Scott Gordo <blubberp...@gmail.com> considered Mon, 17 Dec 2012
> Conti stand behind their tyres, and will replace it unless there are
> clear signs of damage from brake block rubbing or poor mounting
> technique.
> I think (as others have said) you have cause and effect reversed.
> Once a tube is blistering out from between bead and rim, what force is
> going to tear the sidewall of the tyre?
The mudguard clips. It wasn't untl after I returned the tyre did I
realise the tyre itself not to be at fault. Finding the new tyre
rising off the rim before my eyes caused me to look closely at the
tyre mounting where the tyre lifted. It was where the fabric rim tape
overlapped. From then on, when installing fabric tape onto dual wall
rims, I use scissors to leave 1/16" gap between the tape's ends.
> I had a Schwalbe Marathon fail the same way, but it was the (old) one
> that was on my tourer when I got it, so I have no idea of it's
> history. I only trusted my bandage as a means of finishing that day's
> ride though, and it was badly out of balance and I would never have
> had any confidence in it.
thirty-six
Dec 18, 2012, 1:24:33 PM12/18/12
to
Uctuall, dusting a fabric tape may be all that you have to do, and the
effect lasts through multiple tyre changes.
Dan O
Dec 18, 2012, 1:50:53 PM12/18/12
to
On Dec 17, 9:57 pm, Phil W Lee <p...@lee-family.me.uk> wrote:
> Scott Gordo <blubberp...@gmail.com> considered Mon, 17 Dec 2012
> 10:24:12 -0800 (PST) the perfect time to write:
>
> Scott Gordo <blubberp...@gmail.com> considered Mon, 17 Dec 2012
> 10:24:12 -0800 (PST) the perfect time to write:
>
> Take it back.
> Conti stand behind their tyres, and will replace it unless there are
> clear signs of damage from brake block rubbing or poor mounting
> technique.
> I think (as others have said) you have cause and effect reversed.
> Once a tube is blistering out from between bead and rim, what force is
> going to tear the sidewall of the tyre?
I was with those guys as soon as I saw your post (but discarded my
> Conti stand behind their tyres, and will replace it unless there are
> clear signs of damage from brake block rubbing or poor mounting
> technique.
> I think (as others have said) you have cause and effect reversed.
> Once a tube is blistering out from between bead and rim, what force is
> going to tear the sidewall of the tyre?
reply because you seemed to know something you'd done). Innertubes
are weak and need to be handled carefully; tires by their nature and
intended purpose need to be very robust. I can't imagine an innertube
damaging a tire in any ordinary circumstance. But a faulty tire can
certainly result in a blown out innertube.
Now, if you had mounted the tire with a pair of steel butter knives...
> I had a Schwalbe Marathon fail the same way, but it was the (old) one
> that was on my tourer when I got it, so I have no idea of it's
> history. I only trusted my bandage as a means of finishing that day's
> ride though, and it was badly out of balance and I would never have
> had any confidence in it.
bead wire itself puncture the tube once.
As expensive as bicycle tires are for what they are, I wish they were
more consistent QC.
datakoll
Dec 18, 2012, 7:10:27 PM12/18/12
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COATING sidewall with CRC defends the tire bead as it 'flows' over the rim ID.
ending with the valve is bad form. Fix the valve in place with one hand each side squeezing both back and front side tire, right and left sides of valve to evenly position valve with pressure toward valve from the inserting beads (4).
easiest to workm on that with valve side on rimsdiem opposite tummy then flip rim180 - diameter perpendicular to femurs - to start toward the last tire lever pry in chord then opposite tummy with valve at tummy.
the datakoll method of tire mounting.
now for a parade !
ending with the valve is bad form. Fix the valve in place with one hand each side squeezing both back and front side tire, right and left sides of valve to evenly position valve with pressure toward valve from the inserting beads (4).
easiest to workm on that with valve side on rimsdiem opposite tummy then flip rim180 - diameter perpendicular to femurs - to start toward the last tire lever pry in chord then opposite tummy with valve at tummy.
the datakoll method of tire mounting.
now for a parade !
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