Rohloff Hub On Horizontal Dropouts: Anybody Doing It?
(PeteCresswell)
frame/fork, so I grabbed it - intending to put a Rohloff hub back
there instead of a SS.
Oops.... turns out that Rohloff's "SpeedBone" torque thingie
hangs down and prevents the axle from sliding in.
I guess if one were really determined, one could remove the
SpeedBone and disc caliper every time they needed to change a
tire...
Has anybody gotten around this? I'm thinking the original (very
un-German, IMHO) hose-clamp-enabled torque arm that Rohloff ships
with the hub.
Before I start trying to find one, I was hoping to hear from
somebody who is making it work...
--
PeteCresswell
Tom Ace
I used the aluminum torque arm that came with the hub,
but made my own clamp (from wood) to attach the arm
to the stay (to avoid the hose clamp look you mention).
It works fine.
My hub takes locknuts, not QR. I thought the Rohloff-supplied
nuts were cheesy looking and replaced them with nicer looking
nuts with integral washers.
Tom Ace
Chalo
>
> Saw what I thought was a pretty good deal on a Surly 1x1
> frame/fork, so I grabbed it - intending to put a Rohloff hub back
> there instead of a SS.
>
> Oops.... turns out that Rohloff's "SpeedBone" torque thingie
> hangs down and prevents the axle from sliding in.
>
> I guess if one were really determined, one could remove the
> SpeedBone and disc caliper every time they needed to change a
> tire...
>
> Has anybody gotten around this? I'm thinking the original (very
> un-German, IMHO) hose-clamp-enabled torque arm that Rohloff ships
> with the hub.
My wife's Rohloff-hubbed bike is a 1980s made-in-Japan Schwinn Super
Sport with front-opening horizontal dropouts. I used the stock torque
arm-- which isn't great looking, but is very convenient in that it
allows wheel changes without tools. There are three quick-release
mechanisms to content with-- the skewer, the thumbscrew on the shifter
box, and the push button on the torque arm anchor.
Changing the rear wheel is just as easy on her bike as it is on my
Rohloff-equipped Bohemian MTB, which has the convenient OEM1 torque
tab, but also has a disc brake to contend with.
Chalo
Andre Jute
Here's a decision path in English to the parts you require:
http://www.rohloff.de/en/products/speedhub/speedhub_search/index.html
Andre Jute
Vertical dropouts sliding in angled (1) slotted frame ends
(1) Angled to preserve the contact between rim brake blocks and rim as
the wheel is slid to tighten the chain -- these Germans think of
everything.
(PeteCresswell)
> I used the stock torque
>arm-- which isn't great looking, but is very convenient in that it
>allows wheel changes without tools.
Tom, Chalo; here's what I've got right now:
http://tinyurl.com/yddbfxl
Wheel changes seem easier than with a vertical dropout.
I'm not in love with those cables hanging down like they are.
How does the angle of the shifter box stack up with yours? Am I
missing something that would give tighter cable arrangement?
--
PeteCresswell
Tom Ace
> How does the angle of the shifter box stack up with yours? Am I
> missing something that would give tighter cable arrangement?
I have a different cable box position, made possible by
attaching the torque arm to the seat stay. I don't know
if that would be doable with the brake shown in your pic.
Mine is shown at http://minortriad.com/rororo.jpg
I need an allen wrench to disconnect my torque arm,
but I don't mind because I carry one on the bike anyway
and I don't remove the rear wheel often.
Tom Ace
Chalo
>
> Tom, Chalo; here's what I've got right now:http://tinyurl.com/yddbfxl
>
> Wheel changes seem easier than with a vertical dropout.
>
> I'm not in love with those cables hanging down like they are.
>
> How does the angle of the shifter box stack up with yours? Am I
> missing something that would give tighter cable arrangement?
As Tom Ace points out, you can arrange the torque plate to make the
shifter box arm stick out in whatever direction (in 30 degree
increments).
My wife's angles up roughly perpendicular to the seat stay. I run the
cables with full housings in from the top, along the top tube and down
along the left seat stay. It's pretty tidy. I'd send a picture, but
just now that would involve going out and messing with tarps in cold
gusting wind.
Chalo
(PeteCresswell)
>Mine is shown at http://minortriad.com/rororo.jpg
Looks like that setup has the arm pulling away from the stay
instead of pushing against it. OTOH, spatial relationships are
not my forte.... have I got it right?
--
PeteCresswell
(PeteCresswell)
>
>As Tom Ace points out, you can arrange the torque plate to make the
>shifter box arm stick out in whatever direction (in 30 degree
>increments).
On mine, the problem is the chain wheel bolts that connect the
reactor bar to the hub plate. They contend with the plate that
the shift box mounts on. If they were flush, I could rotate the
box down to where the cables were coming in more-or-less
horizontally - as in Tom's setup.
I'd think about the stay mount except that I've got a disc brake
back there that precludes it.
--
PeteCresswell
Tom Ace
> >Mine is shown athttp://minortriad.com/rororo.jpg
>
> Looks like that setup has the arm pulling away from the stay
> instead of pushing against it. OTOH, spatial relationships are
> not my forte.... have I got it right?
In any Rohloff torque arm installation, the arm will
sometimes pull and at other times push on its
attachment, depending on whether the hub is
being used for reduction or increase in gear.
Tom Ace
AMuzi
Photo is from the left; brake arm pushes against the stay.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Tom Ace
>
> > Looks like that setup has the arm pulling away from the stay
> > instead of pushing against it. OTOH, spatial relationships are
> > not my forte.... have I got it right?
>
> Photo is from the left; brake arm pushes against the stay.
There is no brake in my photo.
The Rohloff arm pushes in some gears, pulls in others.
Tom Ace
AMuzi
>>>> Mine is shown athttp://minortriad.com/rororo.jpg
>> (PeteCresswell) wrote:
>>> Looks like that setup has the arm pulling away from the stay
>>> instead of pushing against it. OTOH, spatial relationships are
>>> not my forte.... have I got it right?
> AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> erred:
>> Photo is from the left; brake arm pushes against the stay.
Tom Ace wrote:
> There is no brake in my photo.
> The Rohloff arm pushes in some gears, pulls in others.
Ahh, thank you
Chalo
My MTB's rear disc brake cable coexists nicely with the shift
cables:
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_8pxqMHNBvlg/SzPXEk2wDdI/AAAAAAAAAaI/HKjxRCPZt1c/s800/bohmndrv.JPG
Chalo
(PeteCresswell)
>My MTB's rear disc brake cable coexists nicely with the shift
>cables:
>
>http://lh6.ggpht.com/_8pxqMHNBvlg/SzPXEk2wDdI/AAAAAAAAAaI/HKjxRCPZt1c/s800/bohmndrv.JPG
>
>or http://tinyurl.com/yalos3j
Classy looking rear triangle.
I don't see a SpeedBone or reactor bar.
Is it just engaging one of the disc caliper mounting screws?
--
PeteCresswell
Chalo
>
> Per Chalo:
> >
> >My MTB's rear disc brake cable coexists nicely with the shift
> >cables:
> >
> >
> > or http://tinyurl.com/yalos3j
>
> Classy looking rear triangle.
>
> I don't see a SpeedBone or reactor bar.
The long vertical slot in the dropout engages the Rohloff OEM1 tabbed
plate.
Chalo
Ryan Cousineau
<1e2a0a82-69c0-4648...@c3g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
Chalo <chalo....@gmail.com> wrote:
Eccentric BB chain adjuster?
--
Ryan Cousineau rcou...@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
Andre Jute
> In article
> <1e2a0a82-69c0-4648-b463-f32a72147...@c3g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
>
>
> Chalo <chalo.col...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > PeteCresswell wrote:
>
> > > Per Chalo:
>
> > > >My MTB's rear disc brake cable coexists nicely with the shift
> > > >cables:
>
> > > >http://lh6.ggpht.com/_8pxqMHNBvlg/SzPXEk2wDdI/AAAAAAAAAaI/HKjxRCPZt1c...
>
>
> > > Classy looking rear triangle.
>
> > > I don't see a SpeedBone or reactor bar.
>
> > The long vertical slot in the dropout engages the Rohloff OEM1 tabbed
> > plate.
>
> > Chalo
>
> Eccentric BB chain adjuster?
So many ways to get a) chain tensioning with b) torque reaction on a
Rohloff that they made a decision tree. English version is here:
http://www.rohloff.de/en/products/speedhub/speedhub_search/index.html
Closeup pic of the frame end on my bike bottom left on p9 in this PDF:
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/Andre%20Jute's%20Utopia%20Kranich.pdf
This the standard OEM1 fitting, with the slots in the frame -- seen
without the obscuring parts on the red bike above -- providing chain
tensioning and the tongue (Chalo calls it a "tab") in the long
vertical slot on the bright aluminium axle hanger providing torque
reaction.
The tongue om the slot stands in the place of the long torque arm. A
Speedbone is merely a torque arm that, instead of a tongue in the slot
or a long torque arm, uses the disc caliper holes to fix a short
curved torque arm.
Very versatile, the Rohloff hub.
Andre Jute
A little inaccuracy sometimes saves tons of explanation. --H.H.Munro
("Saki")(1870-1916)
Mmm. Doesn't look like Mr Munro ever had a Rohloff hub on his bike. --
Andre Jute
Visit Jute on Amps at http://members.lycos.co.uk/fiultra/
"wonderfully well written and reasoned information
for the tube audio constructor"
John Broskie TubeCAD & GlassWare
"an unbelievably comprehensive web site
containing vital gems of wisdom"
Stuart Perry Hi-Fi News & Record Review
Chalo
>
> Chalo wrote:
> >
> > PeteCresswell wrote:
> > >
> > > Per Chalo:
> > > >
> > > > My MTB's rear disc brake cable coexists nicely with the shift
> > > > cables:
> > > >
> > >
> > > Classy looking rear triangle.
> > >
> > > I don't see a SpeedBone or reactor bar.
> >
> > The long vertical slot in the dropout engages the Rohloff OEM1 tabbed
> > plate.
>
That's right. I made my own eccentric adjusting BB so that I wouldn't
have to stack a hokey Euro adapter BB with hokey commercial eccentric
threaded cups.
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_8pxqMHNBvlg/SzaMVdpxnlI/AAAAAAAAAag/TwrlR423GoE/s800/bohmbbrt.JPG
My only photo of the other side is blurry, but there's not much to see
there anyway. I made a 24tpi threaded lockring out of the same 3" hex
bar I used to make the BB. The most interesting part is the custom 3"
aluminum crowsfoot plate wrenches that I use to adjust and tighten the
thing.
Chalo
(PeteCresswell)
Chalo
Profile Race cranks. They offer 145mm to 190mm on a normal production
basis, but I got 205mm cranks as a semi-custom job.
http://www.profileracing.com/estore2/index.php?productid=319
That's the same setup I mentioned earlier as having a wide tread (Q)
with perfect chainline, which I accomplished by mounting spacers
between the crankarm and chainwheel.
Chalo
Dan Burkhart
On my recumbent build, the problem was the brakes being in the way of
the torque arm because of the 20" wheel. I ran the torque arm up the
rear of the seat stay and affixed the block to the chainstay with JB
Weld.
http://cid-c5aa741102f41823.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/My%20Bikes/Building%20the%20Quetzal%20recumbent/Quetzal%20rebuilt%20007.jpg#resId/C5AA741102F41823!297
I was prepared to clamp it to the stay should the JB Weld not
hold,and I currently have 2 zip ties re enforcing the connection, and
so far so good.
Now that the JB Weld has cured for a couple of years, this spring I
will remove the zip ties and give it a good pressure test.
(PeteCresswell)
>My hub takes locknuts, not QR. I thought the Rohloff-supplied
>nuts were cheesy looking and replaced them with nicer looking
>nuts with integral washers.
Mine are QR, and I don't see any prospect of changing them.
That being said, does anybody have a workaround for QR in a
horizontal dropout besides tensioning the skewer to the max?
I looked at an allen key skewer at the LBS and it didn't do
anything for me. If anything it seems more problematic bco the
ability to tension things to where the skewer could part.
The chain stay comes in right where I'd otherwise drill/tap the
dropout to add an adjusting screw.
I'm thinking maybe fabricating some little pads/inserts/shims and
gluing them into the slots so that the skewer is back to it's
intended function of just keeping the wheel from falling out
rather than resisting pedaling forces.
Anybody seen something off-the-shelf in that regard?
Maybe some "H" shaped alu extrusion that could be sawn off in the
desired increments.
--
PeteCresswell
Andre Jute
> Per Tom Ace:
>
> >My hub takes locknuts, not QR. I thought the Rohloff-supplied
> >nuts were cheesy looking and replaced them with nicer looking
> >nuts with integral washers.
>
> Mine are QR, and I don't see any prospect of changing them.
No way can you retrofit the Rohloff nutted axle; the nutted and QR
hubs are built from different axle housings as ground zero. However,
you can replace the QR with a skewer that is locked by an Allen key
nut. I have this arrangement on one bike as standard from the factory.
See p9 for two photos of the non-drive side, and the last page for a
big photo that shows the drive side (on which the Allen socket is) at
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/Andre%20Jute's%20Utopia%20Kranich.pdf
You could try to buy the skewer and nuts through Utopia's shop, or I
could enquire about its aftermarket origins. It uses a pretty small
Allen key to prevent over-torqueing on the road, and on your stand
you're supposed to use a small torque wrench. The thing with the
Utopia version is that it was strictly tested by the German government
bureau and likely by Utopia's private-industry tester too; they build
bikes for really big people to use forever, so I have no fear it will
break under me.
> That being said, does anybody have a workaround for QR in a
> horizontal dropout besides tensioning the skewer to the max?
Tugnut may be a brand name from Surly but I don't know the English
name for what you want, only the Dutch name which is "kettingspanner",
literally "chain tensioner" with "for hub gearboxes" being understood.
It consists of a vertical bar that may be shaped with hollows to take
the rear horns of your horizontal frame ends, a ring that fits around
the axle, and a bolt that connects the ring (soldered to the ring on
the version on my Gazelle Toulouse) to the vertical bar through which
there is a hole. The bolt can either be threaded into the vertical
bar, which makes adjustment a chore as you have to disassemble
something every time you fit it up, or the hole can be smooth and the
axle position can be adjusted with a nut on the thread on the far side
of the horizontal bar. My Gazelle has one each side but the Tugnut ad
says only one will do. I'm not pushing the Tugnut; it seems grossly
overpriced, a piece of fashion jewelry for the BMX set. The ones on my
Gazelle are very nicely made, complete with jewelled nuts, but much
cheaper. For a variety of designs, try http://www.fietsonline.com/kleinmateriaal-kettingspanners-c-178
or http://www.fietspunt.nl/shop/listarts.php/catid/227/name/ketting_kettingspanner
I think I've also answered the questions you raise below, except that
on another bike I used Allen-keyed aftermarket skewers from BBB and
they seemed sturdy enough; they certainly gave me no trouble.
Andre Jute
Visit Andre's Gazelle Toulouse at
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/BICYCLE%20Bauhaus.html
(PeteCresswell)
>I don't know the English
>name for what you want, only the Dutch name which is "kettingspanner",
FireFox's "Translate" says "Chain Tensioners".
There certainly seem tb plenty of them.... -)
Thanks.
--
PeteCresswell
(PeteCresswell)
>Tugnut may be a brand name from Surly but I don't know the English
>name for what you want, only the Dutch name which is "kettingspanner",
>literally "chain tensioner" with "for hub gearboxes" being understood.
Bingo: http://tinyurl.com/yjxu3ky
Thanks again!
--
PeteCresswell