Software is forever

[Catrike Rider]

Some time ago, someone, I don't remember who, told me that one problem
they experienced with Strava's equipment records was that it didn't
allow for transferring bikes parts from one bike to another.

I didn't initially see that as a problem for my database's equipment
record keeping. I had replaced the Catrike's frame several years ago,
and most of the parts were transferred to the new frame, but I had
treated the Catrike as a single bike and used the frames as parts of
that bike.

A few days ago, I decided that was wrong. The frames were separate
bikes and the parts had to be shown as being transferred from the
first frame to the replacement, so, yesterday, I tackled the problem.
The key issue was being able to calculate and keep track of the
mileage on the parts that were transferred. A few of the parts on the
original frames are still in use on my replacement frame.

A little more programming this morning and it's done.

One nice thing about software is that, unlike physical entities, it
never wears out.

[Roger Meriman]

Catrike Rider <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>
> Some time ago, someone, I don't remember who, told me that one problem
> they experienced with Strava's equipment records was that it didn't
> allow for transferring bikes parts from one bike to another.

It probably was myself, which I’d noted on the rare occasions I had swapped
parts that Strava doesn’t allow moving equipment you have to delete and and
put a new entry.

It probably is edge case, It’s very rare that I would to be honest.

>
> I didn't initially see that as a problem for my database's equipment
> record keeping. I had replaced the Catrike's frame several years ago,
> and most of the parts were transferred to the new frame, but I had
> treated the Catrike as a single bike and used the frames as parts of
> that bike.
>
> A few days ago, I decided that was wrong. The frames were separate
> bikes and the parts had to be shown as being transferred from the
> first frame to the replacement, so, yesterday, I tackled the problem.
> The key issue was being able to calculate and keep track of the
> mileage on the parts that were transferred. A few of the parts on the
> original frames are still in use on my replacement frame.
>
> A little more programming this morning and it's done.
>
> One nice thing about software is that, unlike physical entities, it
> never wears out.
>

It does become obsolete and unsupported.

Roger Merriman

[Catrike Rider]

On Mon, 22 May 2023 11:25:14 GMT, Roger Meriman <ro...@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Catrike Rider <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>>
>> Some time ago, someone, I don't remember who, told me that one problem
>> they experienced with Strava's equipment records was that it didn't
>> allow for transferring bikes parts from one bike to another.
>
>It probably was myself, which I’d noted on the rare occasions I had swapped
>parts that Strava doesn’t allow moving equipment you have to delete and and
>put a new entry.

Yeah, I think it was you.

I should point out, that whereas I can move parts back and forth
between two bikes, moving parts to a third bike would be a much bigger
problem.

I'm not going there. I'm finished with it.

>It probably is edge case, It’s very rare that I would to be honest.
>>
>> I didn't initially see that as a problem for my database's equipment
>> record keeping. I had replaced the Catrike's frame several years ago,
>> and most of the parts were transferred to the new frame, but I had
>> treated the Catrike as a single bike and used the frames as parts of
>> that bike.
>>
>> A few days ago, I decided that was wrong. The frames were separate
>> bikes and the parts had to be shown as being transferred from the
>> first frame to the replacement, so, yesterday, I tackled the problem.
>> The key issue was being able to calculate and keep track of the
>> mileage on the parts that were transferred. A few of the parts on the
>> original frames are still in use on my replacement frame.
>>
>> A little more programming this morning and it's done.
>>
>> One nice thing about software is that, unlike physical entities, it
>> never wears out.
>>
>It does become obsolete and unsupported.

Indeed, but I can and will support my use of it and it's never going
to be used by anyone else. It's not for sale and I'm definately not
giving it away. I have had to support software I'd sold and I'm not
going to do that again.

At any rate, the database told me that my programming abililities have
not totally drifted away, as some of my other abilities have.

>Roger Merriman
>

[Roger Meriman]

Catrike Rider <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
> On Mon, 22 May 2023 11:25:14 GMT, Roger Meriman <ro...@sarlet.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Catrike Rider <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>
>>> Some time ago, someone, I don't remember who, told me that one problem
>>> they experienced with Strava's equipment records was that it didn't
>>> allow for transferring bikes parts from one bike to another.
>>
>> It probably was myself, which I’d noted on the rare occasions I had swapped
>> parts that Strava doesn’t allow moving equipment you have to delete and and
>> put a new entry.
>
> Yeah, I think it was you.
>
> I should point out, that whereas I can move parts back and forth
> between two bikes, moving parts to a third bike would be a much bigger
> problem.
>
> I'm not going there. I'm finished with it.

Fair enough for myself I noticed it when I upgraded my Gravel bike and kept
the Drive chain and used them on my commute bike when it wore out it’s
cassette/chain. So they started at zero mileage.

I use mileage as gauge for chain/cassette and brake pad wear and thus
should I have a look and see if they need replacement!

Same with the brakes that it got as hand me downs from my MTB though for
that much less of problem ie brakes don’t really wear out, that it’s

>
>> It probably is edge case, It’s very rare that I would to be honest.
>>>
>>> I didn't initially see that as a problem for my database's equipment
>>> record keeping. I had replaced the Catrike's frame several years ago,
>>> and most of the parts were transferred to the new frame, but I had
>>> treated the Catrike as a single bike and used the frames as parts of
>>> that bike.
>>>
>>> A few days ago, I decided that was wrong. The frames were separate
>>> bikes and the parts had to be shown as being transferred from the
>>> first frame to the replacement, so, yesterday, I tackled the problem.
>>> The key issue was being able to calculate and keep track of the
>>> mileage on the parts that were transferred. A few of the parts on the
>>> original frames are still in use on my replacement frame.
>>>
>>> A little more programming this morning and it's done.
>>>
>>> One nice thing about software is that, unlike physical entities, it
>>> never wears out.
>>>
>> It does become obsolete and unsupported.
>
> Indeed, but I can and will support my use of it and it's never going
> to be used by anyone else. It's not for sale and I'm definately not
> giving it away. I have had to support software I'd sold and I'm not
> going to do that again.
>
> At any rate, the database told me that my programming abililities have
> not totally drifted away, as some of my other abilities have.

Good to hear!
>
>> Roger Merriman
>>
>
Roger Merriman

[Catrike Rider]

Contrary to what I said above, I have now made my Excel ride and parts
database so that parts can be changed back and forth between any
number of different bikes without losing track of the number of miles
it has accumulated. While out on a ride, a week ago, it came to me how
to easily do it, and now it's done.

That's one of the advantages of us introverts having a preference for
alone time. Instead of socializing, we contemplate.

[Roger Meriman]

Well done it’s not often it happens and only to be fair happened because I
was moving kit from one bike to another plus upgrading another and so on.

One of the advantages of MTB and Gravel bikes is they are fairly
interchangeable within reason!

Roger Merriman

[John B.]

On Mon, 29 May 2023 17:31:30 -0400, Catrike Rider

But, do you "time change" some parts... i,e, replace after a certain
numbers of hours/miles of use regardless of condition as they do on
airplanes ?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Catrike Rider]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 07:04:46 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
wrote:

No, I've never kept track of any part's age and mileage, but now I'll
know when look closer at wear and when to order replacements so I'm
ready for when they do require retirement.

[Roger Meriman]

I use a similar system but on Strava, and knowing how many miles gives a
indication if you know how long they normally last a said part will last.

Roger Merriman

[John B.]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 08:12:16 GMT, Roger Meriman <ro...@sarlet.com>

wrote:

>John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 29 May 2023 17:31:30 -0400, Catrike Rider
>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 22 May 2023 07:44:40 -0400, Catrike Rider
>>> <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 22 May 2023 11:25:14 GMT, Roger Meriman <ro...@sarlet.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Catrike Rider <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some time ago, someone, I don't remember who, told me that one problem
>>>>>> they experienced with Strava's equipment records was that it didn't
>>>>>> allow for transferring bikes parts from one bike to another.
>>>>>

>>>>> It probably was myself, which I?d noted on the rare occasions I had swapped
>>>>> parts that Strava doesn?t allow moving equipment you have to delete and and

>>>>> put a new entry.
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, I think it was you.
>>>>
>>>> I should point out, that whereas I can move parts back and forth
>>>> between two bikes, moving parts to a third bike would be a much bigger
>>>> problem.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not going there. I'm finished with it.
>>>>

>>>>> It probably is edge case, It?s very rare that I would to be honest.

That's the problem, "how long do they normally last". Or perhaps,
"what's normal"? (:-)
My "Bangkok Bike" still has the original fiction down tube shifters,
and I bought the bike used 12 years ago :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 03:47:06 -0400, Catrike Rider

:-) Will yu be keeping track of your gun on that Excel sheet (:-)

By the way, I came across some terms today:

A superiority complex is a defense mechanism that develops over time
to help a person cope with feelings of inferiority. Individuals with
this complex typically come across as supercilious, haughty, and
disdainful toward others. They may treat others in an imperious,
overbearing, and even aggressive manner.

And
The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias whereby people with low
ability, expertise, or experience regarding a type of task or area of
knowledge tend to overestimate their ability or knowledge.

And
A cognitive bias is a systematic pattern of deviation from norm or
rationality in judgment. Individuals create their own "subjective
reality" from their perception of the input. An individual's
construction of reality, not the objective input, may dictate their
behavior in the world. Thus, cognitive biases may sometimes lead to
perceptual distortion, inaccurate judgment, illogical interpretation,
and irrationality.

:-) :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Roger Meriman]

Sure I mean the commute bike is some 17 something years old, frame, stem
bars are original, and I’m not expecting to need to replace!

Nor to be honest the forks which are solid, it’s a old MTB so had
suspension originally. Which I replaced quite a few years back.

But brake pads about 1000 miles chain/cassette 3000 miles give or take. Ie
it’s more of guide that perhaps I should check!

Roger Merriman

[Catrike Rider]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 15:42:51 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>

It's not difficult, with some individuals, to spot their low self
esteem. One key trait is their obsessive attempts to belittle others
who say and do things different from them. It's not only an attempt
to boost their self image, but an attempt, usually futile, to make
others feel as bad about themselves as they do.

A long time ago, a Psych professor explained to me that if you want to
know what hurts a person, look to see what he/she does to try to hurt
others. Well, she didn't put it in those terms, but that was the
gist.

[Catrike Rider]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 08:55:55 GMT, Roger Meriman <ro...@sarlet.com>

Many parts wear differently on different bikes and with different
riders. I'm keeping a history of how they wear with me and my
bike(s). My system allows me to retire parts, but retains the part and
it's mileage. I wish I had this system years ago. I used to keep a
bike log, but I didn't tend to it as I should have and I finally just
stopped using it.

[Roger Meriman]

Absolutely the commute bike gets though pads quicker than either the MTB or
Gravel bike which I suspect is due to newer brakes that have finned pads
and so on.

My commute is suburbia ie parks and what not, ie not stop go type which
central london can be!

Roger Merriman

[John B.]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 08:55:55 GMT, Roger Meriman <ro...@sarlet.com>

I've never paid much attention to bike parts, except for the chain,
which I was a bit religious about cleaning and hot waxing regularly.
But the rest of it, I'd have a look at the various bits when I washed
the bike, maybe once in two weeks, or so, and fix anything I found but
I never found much of anything. Maybe a brake squeak or maybe it
wouldn't seem to stop as well and I'd replace the brake pads but to be
honest I never had any real problems with a bike.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Roger Meriman]

In many ways it’s more useful then, ie for bikes like my commute bike that
gets cleaned maybe twice a year, and does fairly low mileage now, for
thinking when did I last replace pads/chain etc and should I look at it?

Roger Merriman

[Catrike Rider]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 11:05:39 GMT, Roger Meriman <ro...@sarlet.com>

>>> bars are original, and I?m not expecting to need to replace!
>>>
>>> Nor to be honest the forks which are solid, it?s a old MTB so had

>>> suspension originally. Which I replaced quite a few years back.
>>>
>>> But brake pads about 1000 miles chain/cassette 3000 miles give or take. Ie

>>> it?s more of guide that perhaps I should check!

>>>
>>> Roger Merriman
>>
>> I've never paid much attention to bike parts, except for the chain,
>> which I was a bit religious about cleaning and hot waxing regularly.
>> But the rest of it, I'd have a look at the various bits when I washed
>> the bike, maybe once in two weeks, or so, and fix anything I found but
>> I never found much of anything. Maybe a brake squeak or maybe it
>> wouldn't seem to stop as well and I'd replace the brake pads but to be
>> honest I never had any real problems with a bike.
>
>In many ways it’s more useful then, ie for bikes like my commute bike that
>gets cleaned maybe twice a year, and does fairly low mileage now, for
>thinking when did I last replace pads/chain etc and should I look at it?
>
>Roger Merriman

I calculated the mileage on my cassette and my chain rings and
discovered they were well past the mileage they were expected to have.
I was able to back in my bank statements to find the dates I bought
those older items. Now, each bike part in my database has an expected
maximum mileage estimate and on the the pages where the parts are
displayed, the part's mileage is color coded as to the percentage of
that estimate. It updates automatically whenever I load in a new bike
ride from Garmin Connect.

[Frank Krygowski]

Hmm. I determine whether brake shoes and tires need changing by looking
at them. When I wax my chains a couple times per year, I use a simple
chain checker tool, or maybe just a ruler, to check for wear. On the
wheels that don't have sealed bearing hubs, I re-lube every couple of
years. The utility bikes have oil ports, so they get a drop of oil once
or twice a year.

This doesn't seem complicated to me.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Lou Holtman]

I replace parts when they are worn. No software needed for that. Works for me.

Loi

[Frank Krygowski]

On 5/30/2023 5:11 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>
>
> It's not difficult, with some individuals, to spot their low self
> esteem. One key trait is their obsessive attempts to belittle others
> who say and do things different from them. It's not only an attempt
> to boost their self image, but an attempt, usually futile, to make
> others feel as bad about themselves as they do.

So says one of the trio that does the most blatant belittling, the most
grade-school-style insulting, with Tom and John as teammates.

The problem with that trio is they tend to interpret disagreement on any
factual issue as a personal attack. They respond by personal attacks.

It makes factual discussions with them impossible.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Catrike Rider]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 09:36:19 -0700 (PDT), Lou Holtman
<lou.h...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yeah, my database wasn't really necessary, but putting it all together
has been an entertaining endeavor, and moderately useful. Busy hands
and minds need things to do.

[Catrike Rider]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 12:38:37 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 5/30/2023 5:11 AM, Catrike Rider wrote:
>>
>>
>> It's not difficult, with some individuals, to spot their low self
>> esteem. One key trait is their obsessive attempts to belittle others
>> who say and do things different from them. It's not only an attempt
>> to boost their self image, but an attempt, usually futile, to make
>> others feel as bad about themselves as they do.
>
>So says one of the trio that does the most blatant belittling, the most
>grade-school-style insulting, with Tom and John as teammates.

That's from Krygowski, who attempts (unsuccessfully) to belittle
people who ride a different type of bike than he rides.. who ride in
different places than Krygowski rides.. who is a bit fearful of being
attacked by thugs, instead of the dogs and pickup trucks that
Krygowski fears... and lately people who buy things that Krygowski
doesn't chose to buy.

>The problem with that trio is they tend to interpret disagreement on any
>factual issue as a personal attack. They respond by personal attacks.

Disagreements are fine and common. When they turn into "my way is
better than your way," it's best to laugh and walk away.

>It makes factual discussions with them impossible.

Unlike Krygowski, I choose not to argue, (he calls the discussions)
with him about things that don't effect him in any way.

[Roger Meriman]

Let’s be honest it’s because I like doing so, it’s value is fairly
subjective.

Certainly via Strava it’s very simple in that I put in new part or
retire/delete old I don’t change bikes or parts that often so hardly a
something I do often!

Roger Merriman

[Catrike Rider]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 19:40:35 GMT, Roger Meriman <ro...@sarlet.com>
wrote:

>Frank Krygowski <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>> On 5/30/2023 4:55 AM, Roger Meriman wrote:
>>> John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's the problem, "how long do they normally last". Or perhaps,
>>>> "what's normal"? (:-)
>>>> My "Bangkok Bike" still has the original fiction down tube shifters,
>>>> and I bought the bike used 12 years ago :-)
>>>
>>> Sure I mean the commute bike is some 17 something years old, frame, stem
>>> bars are original, and I’m not expecting to need to replace!
>>>
>>> Nor to be honest the forks which are solid, it’s a old MTB so had
>>> suspension originally. Which I replaced quite a few years back.
>>>
>>> But brake pads about 1000 miles chain/cassette 3000 miles give or take. Ie
>>> it’s more of guide that perhaps I should check!
>>
>> Hmm. I determine whether brake shoes and tires need changing by looking
>> at them. When I wax my chains a couple times per year, I use a simple
>> chain checker tool, or maybe just a ruler, to check for wear. On the
>> wheels that don't have sealed bearing hubs, I re-lube every couple of
>> years. The utility bikes have oil ports, so they get a drop of oil once
>> or twice a year.
>>
>> This doesn't seem complicated to me.
>>
>Let’s be honest it’s because I like doing so, it’s value is fairly
>subjective.

+1

[Tom Kunich]

+
Frank chooses to call the Constitution wrong and that it should be trashed. His response will be "I didn't say that" even though he meant it totally.

[Catrike Rider]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 12:54:43 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

What Krygowski calls discussions is when he attacks everything that
anybody says or does that's different from him. When people don't
respond to his demands to support (argue) their differences, he
attacks them for that. Of course it's all part of his unsuccessful
attempt to boost his own poor self image.

[Tom Kunich]

I have to take part of the blame for his poor self image. When he started his crap about me not doing what is in my resume, I told him what I thought of teachers. I have known several very good teachers. But they ARE rare. It takes a person that is committed to transferring knowledge to their students and I never got the idea that Frank did that. And he keeps up with stupid statements like he disagreed with Jobst. He was kissing Jobst's ass so hard he was leaving lip imprints.

Mind you so were most of the other members of the group so it isn't as if Frank were any better or worse. But WHY deny it? At that time my sign-on name was SLTom992 and when Jobst and I got into an argument he published my mother's address as mine. He was looking this up on the Internet because he and I had several friendly conversations since I was riding with his group and we emailed each other. So he knew perfectly well who I was. At that time it was one of the world's most shocking things to give out someone's address on the Internet. In the first place it was incorrect and that was my mother's house where I got mail when I was living on my sailboat.

And in the second place it started and entire string of idiots publishing my address. Only not only were they all incorrect - one even published my mother's name as Mary, that was another old granny in San Leandro with the same common Croatian name. She had a son also named Thomas (Croatians are Catholic and name their children after saints). More importantly, at the time that Jobst did that I was married and living in Fremont. That's 20 miles from San Leandro.

Jobst had many redeeming qualities but he had an ego the size of Krygowski's and couldn't stand the slightest disagreement. Krygowski has so few redeeming qualities that his wish of replacing Jobst could never some true.

The reason that so many people disappeared was because of Jobst publishing my address and then all of his zealot followers left after Jobst died. But the group is surviving and will grow again.

[Catrike Rider]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 14:37:52 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have no idea who this Jobst guy is, and I don't understand someone
replacing him. Replacing him as what?

[John B.]

Wasn't he going on about broad brimmed hats the other day?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Catrike Rider]

On Wed, 31 May 2023 05:38:45 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>

I must have missed that.

[John B.]

See? You guys just don't realize what a perfect person Frankie really
is!
You don't believe me? Well, just ask him and he'll tell you.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Tom Kunich]

Jobst was a mechanical engineer who worked for Hewlett-Packard. He rode a bike about an inch too big with the saddle down almost on the top tube. He had long arms and his advice on bike fit was normally only fair but respected altogether too much. He sort of moderated the group with a very heavy hand. He had a LOT of followers that didn't know their ass from a hat. But at least they rode bicycles. Jobst was a guy that rode very fast and sometimes too fast for conditions and he would do things that in my opinion endangered the people on his rides who were often beginners thinking that they were going to learn something from Jobst. I forget if he was an inch or two taller than me, and he rode a 66 cm frame (26"). As a comparison I ride a 23 1/2" (60 cm) now and at that time a 24" (62 cm).

But there were also a lot of members that rode VERY well themselves that always took Jobst's comments with a large dose of salt. I rode with Jobst for awhile until he pulled one of his stunts one too many times and I stopped riding with him and took up riding with other groups who were a HELL of a lot more thoughtful of the people they were riding with. Over in Palo Alto (near Stanford University) We were coming down a long hill (there wasn't a lot of traffic in those days) We were moving pretty damned fast and he pulled over into the opposite lane (to the left) and jumped over the roadside ditch onto an off-camber hard dirt trail. To tell you the truth I am astounded that there wasn't a big pileup. But that was the final straw for me. I could ride like that but I never thought that newbies should be put in that position without at least warning them.

I suspect that was an insult to Jobst though I never bothered too much with him until why I left came up which triggered his posting my mothers address and saying it was mine. That outraged a large part of the non-Jobst worshippers and there was an immediate fall out with them moving to the other groups that Jobst wasn't running.

Jobst Brandt's son showed up on this site a year or two ago. I suppose he wanted to see people gushing all over his father. Jobst was a German that I believe worked as a mechanical engineer for Mercedes Benz until moving to the USA. I can't imagine what he did at H-P unless it was packaging products which was WAY below his abilities. But he was pretty old fashioned in some ways and he had downtube friction shifter until the day he died. He was just a man with all of the faith and foibles as any of us.

Except Krygowski, he's perfect, just ask him.

[Catrike Rider]

On Wed, 31 May 2023 05:46:15 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>

When I stop to add up all the ways and wheres and hows that I ride
that might be different from Krygowski's, I'll bet I have dozens of
potential argument issues beside the gun...

[Catrike Rider]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 16:23:15 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

How do you "moderate" a usenet group?

[AMuzi]

Jobst Brandt cannot be replaced; the world muddles along
without him.

He was the RBT intellectual leader, guru, historian and
encyclopaedia.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Catrike Rider]

Ahhh, and that's all fine awith me as long as he didn't demand
compliance.

[John B.]

On Tue, 30 May 2023 18:40:34 -0400, Catrike Rider

Well, it's not to worry as if he didn't he will leap into the arena
shouting "I Din' Say That!"
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 5/30/2023 7:23 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
>>> I have to take part of the blame for his poor self image. ...
>>>
>>> Jobst had many redeeming qualities but he had an ego the size of Krygowski's ...

:-) So I simultaneously have a poor self image and a large ego? Tom,
your newest trick seems to be contradicting yourself within one post.
It's kind of funny.

> Jobst was a German that I believe worked as a mechanical engineer for Mercedes Benz until moving to the USA.

No, Tom, you're wrong yet again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobst_Brandt

--
- Frank Krygowski

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

And beyond dispute, the best selling author ever to grace the pages of this forum.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bicycle_Wheel
"the definitive text on the theory and practice of building spoked bicycle wheels. " - Sheldon Brown

[Tom Kunich]

By his pure force of personality. And a slavish group of followers like the Stupid 4 only in the dozens.

[Tom Kunich]

I would agree with that but he had his faults and few seemed to recognize them.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 5/30/2023 7:57 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>
>
> Jobst Brandt cannot be replaced; the world muddles along without him.
>
> He was the RBT intellectual leader, guru, historian and encyclopaedia.

+1

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Catrike Rider]

On Wed, 31 May 2023 07:13:51 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

That's been tried with me. It's never worked.

[Catrike Rider]

On Wed, 31 May 2023 10:49:17 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 5/30/2023 7:57 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>
>>
>> Jobst Brandt cannot be replaced; the world muddles along without him.
>>
>> He was the RBT intellectual leader, guru, historian and encyclopaedia.
>
>+1

I know some people need a leader, but I don't understand it.

[Tom Kunich]

Just observe the postings of the Stupid 4. Without Biden they would be lost unless another Hitler was in the offing. You have seen how they abhor freedom, particularly that of others

[John B.]

On Wed, 31 May 2023 08:32:03 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Really? But I live in Thailand. Translated into English "thai land"
means "Free Land" or "Land of the Free" :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Roger Meriman]

He appeared to be a interesting character, if he’s the person I think he
was, he got named in some GCN documentary about bike designs and so on.

Flawed I’m sure as he was!

Roger Merriman

[AMuzi]

And apt. AFAIK the only place on earth never colonized.

(close call for Japan if you omit the 1945 occupation)

[AMuzi]

On 5/31/2023 10:56 AM, Roger Meriman wrote:
> Catrike Rider <sol...@drafting.not> wrote:
>> On Wed, 31 May 2023 10:49:17 -0400, Frank Krygowski
>> <frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 5/30/2023 7:57 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jobst Brandt cannot be replaced; the world muddles along without him.
>>>>
>>>> He was the RBT intellectual leader, guru, historian and encyclopaedia.
>>>
>>> +1
>>
>> I know some people need a leader, but I don't understand it.
>>
>

> He appeared to be a interesting character, if he’s the person I think he

> was, he got named in some GCN documentary about bike designs and so on.
>

> Flawed I’m sure as he was!
>
> Roger Merriman
>

Speaking as a human, flaws are some of our best features.

[Roger Meriman]

Indeed!

Roger Merriman

[Tom Kunich]

I suppose it's not nice to speak ill of the dead.

[John B.]

True. Partly because they served as a buffer between French and
English interests.

The Japanese were, probably the best term is 'invaded', but down deep
inside remained "Japanese" :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Radey Shouman]

You could of course look at it another way. The Ainu of what is now
Japan were very successfully invaded by people from the Korean
peninsula, who still lord it over them.

[Tom Kunich]

As I've mentioned before, Slocomb's mind is so far gone that he thinks that the slave labor in Thailand is a sign of freedom. To this mindless wonder, Pearl Harbor -
never occurred and the Philippines should have been the property of Japan. This little short assed SOB loves communism and child labor and sex trafficking as if that is the world is supposed to be. Maybe because he stayed in Thailand so that it was easy to get little boys. That is what HE identifies as "Free Land".

[John B.]

On Wed, 31 May 2023 19:45:53 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Gee Tommy... Tell me more about the slave labor here in Thailand. I
would sure like to buy a couple.
Can you point me to a source? Who is selling them, and so on?

And some of my in laws run some pretty big businesses and I'm sure
that they'd be interested in some too, and might even be willing to
give you a baht or two for the information.

As for the Philippines? Well that belonged to Spain before the U.S.
"stole" it.

As for Free I would have to say Yes. Given the number of laws,
policies, rules, regulations, and so on, in the U.S.

Ask Mr. Muzi how many town, city, county, state and federal
regulation, policy, laws, guidance, whatever, impinge on his business
and I'll ask my sister-in-law how many she has to contend with and
we'll see who is "free".
--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

Thailand would win that hands down. And I'm just an
importer/retailer. For a manufacturer it's the death of a
thousand cuts.

[Tom Kunich]

My wife pretty much runs a Bible study group and the entire group is women from Thailand, Melanesia and Vietnam. Would you like to speak to those ladies about why they escaped to the United States?

[AMuzi]

On 6/1/2023 9:32 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:

> My wife pretty much runs a Bible study group and the entire group is women from Thailand, Melanesia and Vietnam. Would you like to speak to those ladies about why they escaped to the United States?
>

When did they arrive? Makes a difference.

This is the book I'll read next when I finish the current one:

https://www.alibris.com/While-Time-Remains-A-North-Korean-Defectors-Search-for-Freedom-in-America-Yeonmi-Park/book/52149558?matches=16

I hear the same from Poles, Czechs and Cubans:

https://www.theepochtimes.com/cuban-immigrants-warn-americans-of-misery-for-everybody-if-they-choose-socialism-learn-the-truth_3813770.html

But in our beleaguered country there seem to be no mirrors
in which one might see his own visage.

[Tom Kunich]

These women for the most part have only been in this country for 10 years or less. America would have a LOT less human bondage if the FBI did the3ir work rather than focusing on Jan 6th and ignoring 127 days of Portland OR misery.

[John B.]

On Thu, 1 Jun 2023 07:32:42 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yup, I sure would. So rather then innuendo give us some details of
this slavery. I talked to my house keeper and she tells me that we
should have at least two. One for the inside work and one for the
outside work. I talked to a nephew who manages a wholesale food
business and he reckons he could use at least 5.

So tell us Tommy.... "where can we buy some?"

As for your wife's bible study group? Not to insult your wife but that
sounds like lies as the vast majority of Thai and Vietnamese are NOT
Christian and would have no reason to study the Bible.

The official figures for Christians in Thailand is about 1% and in
Vietnam, "perhaps 2%". In fact, I have never seen a Christian church
in Thailand. Buddhist Temples and even Muslim Mosque's yes, but no
Churches. So where did all these bible students come from?

Oh Yes, the "Melanesia" you mention isn't a country it is a region
from New Guinea in the west to the Fiji Islands in the east.

So Tommy give us some details of this slavery please.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Thu, 1 Jun 2023 07:54:44 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, June 1, 2023 at 7:50:08?AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 6/1/2023 9:32 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:

Tommy, Tommy! I keep asking you where to buy these slaves and you
don't answer. Why ever not.

By the way. My wife's elder sister is married to an "American" and
lives in California somewhere. My wife visited her a couple of times
and was introduced to a whole flock of Laotian women who had been
evacuated from Laos when the Communists took over. They'd been in the
U.S. for 10 or more years and never worked... supported by the U.S.
government. My wife thought that sounded like a grand idea... except
that she doesn't like "Americans", or at least those living in
America.

--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

On Thu, 1 Jun 2023 07:32:42 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've answered this before but I really would be interesting in
attending one of your wife's bible study classes as women from
Thailand, Vietnam and "Melanesia" all speak different languages. In
fact "Melanesia" which encompasses an area from Papua New Guinea, to
the Fiji Islands speak several languages. Papua New Guinea alone has
some 830 "living languages", meaning languages in current use.

Does your wife really speak all those different languages?

--
Cheers,

John B.

[William Crowell]

Tom Kunich wrote: "I have known several very good teachers. But they ARE rare."

In looking back over my grade school and high school classmates, the most mediocre of them became teachers. Obviously we're not hiring the best public school teachers we could find, but probably the best ones would be too expensive anyway, salary-wise. Somehow teaching became the job that any college graduate could get, whether they knew anything or not, especially the ones who didn't know what else to do for a career. Let's face it: handing our children's education over the government was a terrible idea. Parents have made a pact with the devil in order to get what seems to them to be free babysitting. Except it's not free because they pay a lot in taxes for it.

[John B.]

But what is a "good teacher"? One assumes someone who, was capable of
teaching a large percentage of the students, who were capable of
learning, a sufficient amount about the subject to enable them to pass
the "finals".

Tom, for example, has mentioned the 2 or 3 months he went to some sort
of Air Force training school learning electrics or electronics. My
experience in the 20 years I spent in the A.F. was that training was
very much a one way street. I make the information available to you
and if you can't pass your tests then you just stay a low ranker and
get to sweep the floors.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

On 6/1/2023 6:52 PM, William Crowell wrote:
> Tom Kunich wrote: "I have known several very good teachers. But they ARE rare."
>
> In looking back over my grade school and high school classmates, the most mediocre of them became teachers. Obviously we're not hiring the best public school teachers we could find, but probably the best ones would be too expensive anyway, salary-wise. Somehow teaching became the job that any college graduate could get, whether they knew anything or not, especially the ones who didn't know what else to do for a career. Let's face it: handing our children's education over the government was a terrible idea. Parents have made a pact with the devil in order to get what seems to them to be free babysitting. Except it's not free because they pay a lot in taxes for it.
>

Public school 'teachers' are very well compensated for not
so much actual work.

https://chicagounheard.org/blog/cps-high-school-and-academic-cut-scores-for-the-2022-23-school-year/

CPS spends $30,000 per pupil but the real costs, pensions,
are in arrears with piles of taxpayer dollars due, one way
or another, sooner or later.

https://www.illinoispolicy.org/11-things-you-need-to-know-about-chicago-teacher-pensions/

[Frank Krygowski]

On 6/1/2023 8:36 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> Public school 'teachers' are very well compensated for not so much
> actual work.

There may be some examples of that down at the usual low end of the
normal curve. But based on teachers I've known, "not so much actual
work" is bullshit. Do you know any actual teachers?

--
- Frank Krygowski

[William Crowell]

Frank, have you had any kids who attended public school within the last 20 years? You don't seem to be very aware of present conditions in the schools. The teachers and the school administrations are terrible.

[John B.]

On Thu, 1 Jun 2023 20:11:21 -0700 (PDT), William Crowell
<retrog...@gmail.com> wrote:

The U.S. spends about 40% more money on education, per student, then
the average of Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development
(OECD) and is rated 14th in the group for quality.

--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

OK, that's a good point.

There are radical differences between districts, among
principals and state to state so I should not have used a
categorical tone.

Teachers I know retired young and live very well.

The largest districts are nothing short of abominable

https://www.nationsreportcard.gov/profiles/districtprofile/overview/XM?cti=PgTab_OT&chort=1&sub=MAT&sj=XM&fs=Grade&st=MN&year=2022R3&sg=Gender%3A%20Male%20vs.%20Female&sgv=Difference&ts=Single%20Year&tss=2022R3&sfj=NL

(the interested reader can peruse by district, grade level,
subject)

Put a price on that performance.

[AMuzi]

On 6/1/2023 10:11 PM, William Crowell wrote:

Agree generally but, as Mr Krygowski noted above, not
universally. Yet.

The national government through the "Education" department
will get the stragglers on program eventually so
everything's universally crap.

[AMuzi]

Only because they keep lowering the bar for "quality".

And your "40%" doesn't count the pension/medical liabilities
which are gargantuan and mostly off-book. Normal
corporations can't massage a balance sheet as governments do.

[Tom Kunich]

On Thursday, June 1, 2023 at 4:52:37 PM UTC-7, William Crowell wrote:
> Tom Kunich wrote: "I have known several very good teachers. But they ARE rare."
>
> In looking back over my grade school and high school classmates, the most mediocre of them became teachers. Obviously we're not hiring the best public school teachers we could find, but probably the best ones would be too expensive anyway, salary-wise. Somehow teaching became the job that any college graduate could get, whether they knew anything or not, especially the ones who didn't know what else to do for a career. Let's face it: handing our children's education over the government was a terrible idea. Parents have made a pact with the devil in order to get what seems to them to be free babysitting. Except it's not free because they pay a lot in taxes for it.

My step grandsons were TWO YEARS behind on reading comprehension. Luckily for them, my wife had started a private school which she taught in for a majority of her career. When she discovered how far behind they were, she took care of that and now they are well ahead. The granddaughter from a different step daughter was kept up to date by her father who you would swear couldn't read at all since all there seems to be in his home is hundreds of movie disks. But apparently he is a great deal smarter than what he appears.

[Tom Kunich]

I'm sure that Frank will turn instantly defensive when actual test scores show the paucity in the transfer of knowledge to not be a guess but an absolute fact. Frank himself couldn't earn a living as an engineer and so he became a teacher. I understand that ANYTHING can start a willing student on a path to proficiency but it is so much easier with a proficient teacher.

[Tom Kunich]

My wife was a teacher and she chose an administrator who was also a teacher to run the school that had 100 students. With two other teachers they were able to make grade school and Jr. High students graduate into the highest levels of the public high schools. And they cost a FRACTION of what public schools cost. She now runs Bible studies for adults and has equal results for free though it is extremely rare that she does a like of housework.

[Frank Krygowski]

I have grandkids in excellent public school systems, and I have dear
friends whom I've known through many years of their teaching careers,
and who are now retired teachers. I also have, and have had, friends on
school boards.

The complaints about teaching remind me of a saying I once had posted in
my office: "Every job is easy for the person who doesn't have to do it."

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

On 6/2/2023 9:50 AM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 6/1/2023 9:22 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 6/1/2023 8:36 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>
>>> Public school 'teachers' are very well compensated for not
>>> so much actual work.
>>
>>
>> There may be some examples of that down at the usual low end
>> of the normal curve. But based on teachers I've known, "not
>> so much actual work" is bullshit. Do you know any actual
>> teachers?
>>
> OK, that's a good point.
>
> There are radical differences between districts, among principals and
> state to state so I should not have used a categorical tone.
>
> Teachers I know retired young and live very well.
>
> The largest districts are nothing short of abominable

I think bad education results correlate very strongly with low income
levels. And given the audience here, I'll quickly add that giving a ton
of money to a family wouldn't necessarily improve that.

I believe it's a cultural problem. There are sub-cultures where families
demand and expect their kids succeed. There are sub-cultures where
families barely exist, and/or don't care about their kids success. And
(again, given the audience here) those differences are not
all-or-nothing. They are normal curves with overlaps and exceptions.

For the anecdote addicts, one teacher friend of mine transferred to a
low income school and had great difficulty. She once described standing
aside one kid's desk to give him individual help with math. As she did
so, a kid in an adjacent desk began drawing on her skirt using his pen.
You can't blame that on the teacher.

In anther instance, I visited a certain high school science class to
make them aware of our programs. I was astonished to see seniors in an
elective science class absolutely defying the teacher, to the point of
blatantly using her computer and refusing to stop.

But on the other hand: _Freakonomics_ discussed a natural experiment
that took place in Chicago schools. They decided to implement "magnet"
schools with special, higher level curricula. Hundreds of families
applied they didn't have capacity for them all. So they held a lottery,
and winning kids got to go to the special schools.

Researchers later evaluated academic progress of the kids whose families
applied. It turned out the schools (and thus teachers, curricula, etc.)
didn't matter. If a kid's family _tried_ to get him into a magnet
school, he did very well in school whether or not he won a spot. Kids
whose families didn't care to apply did much worse.

Family and culture seem to be the most important factor.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Catrike Rider]

The problem here, is the the school administration puts up with that
stuff. They used to have "reform schools" to deal with those kids.
Today, they just interfere with the kids who want to learn.

>But on the other hand: _Freakonomics_ discussed a natural experiment
>that took place in Chicago schools. They decided to implement "magnet"
>schools with special, higher level curricula. Hundreds of families
>applied they didn't have capacity for them all. So they held a lottery,
>and winning kids got to go to the special schools.
>
>Researchers later evaluated academic progress of the kids whose families
>applied. It turned out the schools (and thus teachers, curricula, etc.)
>didn't matter. If a kid's family _tried_ to get him into a magnet
>school, he did very well in school whether or not he won a spot. Kids
>whose families didn't care to apply did much worse.
>
>Family and culture seem to be the most important factor.

Partly so, but the school are also responsible for refusing to punish
the disruptive students.

[AMuzi]

The answer to high achievement by students from intact
motivated families is segregation and quotas, so sayeth The
Courts

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/thomas-jefferson-high-school-s-admission-policy-doesn-t-discriminate-court-rules/ar-AA1bAvrw

[John B.]

Well, like much information available today I'm sure that the figures
are skewed to some extent. I just read an article that "proved" that
teachers worked some astronomical number of hours a day/week/year
beavering away preparing lessons, planning schedules and generally
working like slaves.

But on the other hand two of my relatives were "teachers", one a high
school English teacher and the other (my mother's oldest sister's
husband) was a professor... the head if the Chemistry department at
the state university and neither of them worked the ungodly hours
referred to in the article.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

I've told the story of one of my friends who grew up in a French
speaking family and failed his high school French course. When his
mother and father arrived at the high school to protest this the
Principal, being a canny old chap, called the French teacher in to
explain. Maman and Pere started questioning her, in French of course,
and it turned out that she couldn't speak the language.

--
Cheers,

John B.

[Tom Kunich]

Asians and especially Asian Americans value education and success. Democrat will do anything to stop success even if it means segregation. They have always been for slavery and wish to continue it. Can you imagine for one second Biden saying that he was marching with Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. when that son of a bitch was the errand boy for Robert Byrd who was an official in the KKK. Biden was the guy that ran around the senate gathering votes to oppose desegregation. And the Slime Stream Media says not one word about it. That tells you what they are.

[Roger Meriman]

Years back as a postie we’d get this, as they would see them posties lunch
time at the pub on a sunny day and think I could do that job!

Not thinking about the 5am start or delivery and takes a while to learn so
first few months you’ll finish later than the folks who have been there for
decades.

So most would last maybe a few days some a few weeks, only few would make
it as you where!

Roger Merriman

[sms]

I have two kids who attended public school within the past 20 years. The
teachers and the administration were excellent though there were of
course some teachers that were not so excellent.

We specifically bought a house in an area with excellent schools even
though that meant getting a lot less house for the money.

You have to understand that the quality of public schools varies
drastically based on the district, the funding, the administration, the
teachers, and the parents' education and income level.

--
“If you are not an expert on a subject, then your opinions about it
really do matter less than the opinions of experts. It's not
indoctrination nor elitism. It's just that you don't know as much as
they do about the subject.”—Tin Foil Awards

[Tom Kunich]

During my time in the public school system in Oakland there were hardly more than a handful of good teachers and they stuck out like sore thumbs.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

On Friday, June 2, 2023 at 9:51:02 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
>
>
> Teachers I know retired young and live very well.
>

Do they know of the low opinion you have of them and their profession?

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

Yup, every single last one. There are literally _no_ good teachers or school systems anywhere in the US. It's all just an evil liberal plot to enslave our children into socialism....why, the worst ones even host cannibalistic child sex rings (just ask tommy).

The entire education system in the US should be completely dismantled and all teachers and administrators thrown into slave labor camps. While we're at it let's get rid of that evil socialistic public library system. After all, we know librarians are just interested in grooming children for sexual deviants (right Andrew?) .

Kind of leaves us with a bit of problem though - no schools except completely privately funded ones, no publicly available books, only those in private learning institutions....I guess this all leads to one conclusion: fuck the poor.

You all must be so proud.

[Catrike Rider]

On Fri, 2 Jun 2023 13:14:16 -0700 (PDT), "funkma...@hotmail.com"
<funkma...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, June 1, 2023 at 11:11:23?PM UTC-4, William Crowell wrote:

Never heard of school vouchers and charter schools, Dummy?

[Frank Krygowski]

You stopped too soon. It's not just the public schools and libraries.
There's the terrible burden of maintaining costly "government" at the
city, state and national levels. All those lazy legislators and
administrators! And I regularly see police officers just sitting in cars
and watching traffic, doing nothing! Firefighters get paid even when
there are no fires, water departments spend money just to deliver
_water_ - and hell, it falls from the sky! Restaurant inspectors? Food
inspectors and regulations? Salmonella kills only the weak!

Perhaps we should cut out _all_ the fat. Look at Mogadishu! It's a low
tax, low government, gun-rich right wing paradise!

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Catrike Rider]

On Fri, 2 Jun 2023 16:55:50 -0400, Frank Krygowski
<frkr...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

>On 6/2/2023 4:14 PM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:

>> On Thursday, June 1, 2023 at 11:11:23?PM UTC-4, William Crowell wrote:

Well, we could use school vouchers and charter schools to provide
school choice and make the schools face competition.


As for the federal government it may be too late, but maybe
legislative term limits would certainly help, and regular fresh blood
might help to flush down the bloated deep state.

OTOH, some state and local governments do seem to reflect their
constituency better.

[Tom Kunich]

That woulod be exhibiting intelligence. The words Intelligence and Flunky do not go together.

[Tom Kunich]

Of course we COULD look at Switzerland hey Franky boy? Oh wait, they also have the largest number of guns per capita don't they? Why don't you find even ONE of your spineless ideas that actually works?

[John B.]

In reading a bit about the school I get the feeling that it was built
with the idea that it would be a limited admittance school for
"superior" students. If that is correct then they are certainly right
in limiting admittance to "superior" students.

As for the admittance of minorities I can find nothing about how the
minorities scored on admission testing.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 2 Jun 2023 09:59:16 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Asians and especially Asian Americans value education and success. Democrat will do anything to stop success even if it means segregation. They have always been for slavery and wish to continue it. Can you imagine for one second Biden saying that he was marching with Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. when that son of a bitch was the errand boy for Robert Byrd who was an official in the KKK. Biden was the guy that ran around the senate gathering votes to oppose desegregation. And the Slime Stream Media says not one word about it. That tells you what they are.

Amazing "facts". Who is paying you to recycle false rumors?

"Fact check: Robert Byrd, eulogized by Joe Biden at funeral, was not
KKK Grand Wizard"
<https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-byrd-eulogy-biden-kkk-grand/fact-checkrobert-byrdeulogized-by-joe-bidenat-funeralwas-notkkkgrandwizard-idUSKBN26S2EE>

"Biden did not eulogize former KKK "grand wizard""
<https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-afs:Content:9545480195>

"Fact check: Photo shows Biden with Byrd, who once had ties to KKK,
but wasn't a grand wizard"
<https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/06/14/fact-check-biden-isnt-kkk-grand-wizard-photo/3183887001/>

"A photograph shows Joe Biden with a Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux
Klan."
<https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2019/aug/15/viral-image/robert-byrd-wasnt-grand-wizard-kkk-he-once-led-loc/>
"Robert Byrd wasn’t a Grand Wizard of the KKK but he once led a local
chapter"

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[John B.]

On Fri, 2 Jun 2023 09:59:16 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

But Tommy, every country I have lived in discriminates against
someone, quite often Americans, and most practice at least some, if
only financial, segregation. In some areas it can even get you shot.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 02 Jun 2023 12:13:59 -0400, Catrike Rider
<sol...@drafting.not> wrote:

>The problem here, is the the school administration puts up with that
>stuff. They used to have "reform schools" to deal with those kids.
>Today, they just interfere with the kids who want to learn.

(...)

>Partly so, but the school are also responsible for refusing to punish
>the disruptive students.

The schools are not refusing. On the left coast, the school
administrations are simply following the California Dept of Education
rules and policies for "mainstreaming":
<https://www.google.com/search?q=school+mainstreaming>
When disruptive students are sent to the principal's office for
disciplining, there's little that the principal can do that isn't
classified as brutality. The student will also claim that the reason
the aren't learning is because they have "special needs" which are not
being provided. If possible, the disruptive student is sent to a
similar class with a different instructor. The end result is usually
that the student is sent back to the original class after a short talk
with a counselor. The instructors are very hesitant to give the
disruptive student a failing grade, which usually results in the
student having to take the class again, possibly with the same
instructor. No instructor wants a disruptive student in their class.
So, the disruptive student get's a passing grade, and moves on to
disrupt other classes. The basic principle is that if one makes
enough noise, they can get away with whatever they have done and get
whatever they want.

Incidentally, a student does not need to be loud, obnoxious or out of
order to be disruptive. They can simply ask too many dumb questions,
which causes the entire class to proceed at the rate of the slowest
learner.

[John B.]

On Fri, 02 Jun 2023 18:34:16 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

Granted it was many years ago, but when I was in school all it took
was a note from the teacher to your parents that you were "acting up"
and your parents would take care of the rest.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

On 6/2/2023 2:33 PM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:

> On Friday, June 2, 2023 at 9:51:02 AM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
>>
>>
>> Teachers I know retired young and live very well.
>>
>
> Do they know of the low opinion you have of them and their profession?
>

I'm not shy.

But it's a bureaucracy so the teachers claim they are unable
to perform because of the administration. Administrators
naturally blame both the school board and the union.

No one takes systemic failure personally.

Meanwhile CPS churns out 5% of students competent in math at
HS graduation but they all get the same diploma. Thanks for
playing!

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 03 Jun 2023 08:53:00 +0700, John B. <sloc...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Granted it was many years ago, but when I was in school all it took
>was a note from the teacher to your parents that you were "acting up"
>and your parents would take care of the rest.

"National Single Parent Day: March 21, 2023"
<https://www.census.gov/newsroom/stories/single-parent-day.html>
“Almost a quarter of U.S. children under the age of 18 live with one
parent and no other adults (23%), more than three times the share of
children around the world who do so (7%) …

“In comparison, 3% of children in China, 4% of children in Nigeria and
5% of children in India live in single-parent households. In
neighboring Canada, the share is 15%.”

"Single parents in the United States"
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_parents_in_the_United_States>

I'm not an expert on parenting. I'm told that attempting to
discipline problem children is rather difficult when the single parent
spends little time with the children. From personal experience, the
disruptive child is looking for attention because they are not getting
attention at home. It's similar to Tom disrupting RBT with his off
topic political postings. He wants attention.

The schools are acting "in loco parentis" (acting in place of the
parent) where the parent(s) expect the schools to do the necessary
disciplining. That's not going to work very well. The problem is
much less in countries with fewer single-parent households.

[John B.]

On Fri, 02 Jun 2023 19:11:45 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <je...@cruzio.com>
wrote:

Re single parenting... is, I'd say, largely a factor of the payments
to unwed mothers --- years ago I knew a bloke that was romancing a
woman who had three kids "with no father" and she was getting enough
to support a boy friend.

But on the other hand, some do rush out and get married only to
discover that they don't like the partner at all.

As for disciplining kids, it's easy. You start while they still in
diapers and just keep going :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.