"The Spoking Word" by Leonard Goldberg
travis...@gmail.com
ebay. And I'm not dissing Jobst by repeating what may be mistaken
claims, below. It antedates the archive of this group. Or, I'm not
trying hard enough.
From the description:
This book was written and self published during the early 1980s by
Leonard Goldberg, a former Boeing engineer, bicycle shop owner,
inventor, composer and an altogether remarkable man. Leonard is a
good friend of mine, which is how I happen to have some of his books
on hand.
The Spoking Word is unique among wheel building books because it is
the only such book that treats the subject as an engineering problem,
and it is the only book which examines a variety of creative solutions
to the problem of designing wheels with engineering rigor. It makes
all other books on wheelbuilding appear superficial, and although it
was printed over 20 years ago, the bicycle industry has not yet caught
up to this book.
Harry Travis
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
> I'm not shilling for this book. I'm inquiring about it, for sale on
> eBay. And I'm not dissing Jobst by repeating what may be mistaken
> claims, below. It antedates the archive of this group. Or, I'm not
> trying hard enough.
So does "the Bicycle Wheel". There was no ".tech" at that time. It
was all "wreck.bike" one big unhappy family.
> From the description:
> This book was written and self published during the early 1980s by
> Leonard Goldberg, a former Boeing engineer, bicycle shop owner,
> inventor, composer and an altogether remarkable man. Leonard is a
> good friend of mine, which is how I happen to have some of his books
> on hand.
What other Friends do you have besides "friend of mine", or is that
merely the long form of "friend"?
> The Spoking Word is unique among wheel building books because it is
> the only such book that treats the subject as an engineering problem,
> and it is the only book which examines a variety of creative solutions
> to the problem of designing wheels with engineering rigor. It makes
> all other books on wheelbuilding appear superficial, and although it
> was printed over 20 years ago, the bicycle industry has not yet caught
> up to this book.
I don't know who composed that paragraph, but "the Bicycle Wheel" is
entirely engineering in the first part so that readers will understand
how wire spoked wheels work and fail, whole the second part is a
failsafe, step-by-step guide, with diagrams, on how to lace wheels of
various number of spokes and cross patterns.
There being no other attributions, I take it this is your "trying
harder" to make the book seem like a ground breaker, which it is not.
"the Bicycle Wheel" was first after many imitators popped up. Gerd
Schraner's "The Art of Wheelbuilding" was the last:
The title is appropriate because it treats the aesthetic part of it
well while not dispelling ancient lore. It no analyses or stress
computations, something that is not necessary for wheelbuilding but
helps one understand "Why" various methods work and the causes spoke
and wheel failure.
Jobst Brandt
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
> I'm not shilling for this book. I'm inquiring about it, for sale on
> eBay. And I'm not dissing Jobst by repeating what may be mistaken
> claims, below. It antedates the archive of this group. Or, I'm not
> trying hard enough.
So does "the Bicycle Wheel". There was no ".tech" at that time. It
was all "wreck.bike" one big unhappy family.
> From the description:
> This book was written and self published during the early 1980s by
> Leonard Goldberg, a former Boeing engineer, bicycle shop owner,
> inventor, composer and an altogether remarkable man. Leonard is a
> good friend of mine, which is how I happen to have some of his books
> on hand.
What other Friends do you have besides "friend of mine", or is that
merely the long form of "friend"?
> The Spoking Word is unique among wheel building books because it is
> the only such book that treats the subject as an engineering problem,
> and it is the only book which examines a variety of creative solutions
> to the problem of designing wheels with engineering rigor. It makes
> all other books on wheelbuilding appear superficial, and although it
> was printed over 20 years ago, the bicycle industry has not yet caught
> up to this book.
I don't know who composed that paragraph, but "the Bicycle Wheel" is
entirely engineering in the first part so that readers will understand
how wire spoked wheels work and fail, while the second part is a
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Harry,
We're squabbling in another thread, but thanks for starting this
one--I can't resist books.
There are four left.
:-)
As payment, here are your calculations:
650 watts
bike + seconds_to seconds_to
rider 10_meters 5_meters
75.0 kg 2.4 1.5
71.8 kg 2.3 1.5
http://www.analyticcycling.com/DiffEqMotion500_Page.html
There is never any "jump" for the lighter bike, no matter how short
the distance or time, because the same force is used to accelerate two
masses that differ by only ~4%.
That ~4% is the maximum difference for their acceleration.
The equation is Acceleration = Force / Mass
http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/GBSSCI/PHYS/CLASS/newtlaws/u2l3a.html
Change the mass by 4%, and you change the acceleration 4%.
That's in a frictionless world.
As wind drag, tire drag, and transmission losses rise further down the
sprint track, the acceleration differences dwindle from that 4%.
What keeps fooling people is their belief that if one bike weighs 50%
more than the other (50%!), then it _must_ go like a bat out of hell
and accelerate with a noticeably robust thrust.
If you tip the bikes to the side, you can _feel_ the difference, no
question about it.
But the total mass is what matters, and it's something like 182 versus
175 lbs. The rider is roughly ten times as important in terms of mass
as the bike.
Put a 161 lb dummy on the two bikes and tip them to the side--now the
difference is only 7/182, ~4%, not 50%.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Jobst,
Best of all, a single copy of "The Bicycle Wheel" is available on
eBay, starting at $0.99 plus $4.99 shipping and handling--a steal if
some lucky RBT poster is the only bidder. Bidders who care can email
and ask if it's 1st, 2nd, or 3rd edition:
It will interesting to see how high the bidding goes.
Will it match the $15.58 that I paid to get "The Spoking Word"?
At www.bookfinder.com, I see a used 1993 copy at $18.99, including
shipping, while new 3rd edition copies are $28.98 including shipping
from Amazon.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
Martin Riddle
<jobst....@stanfordalumni.org> wrote in message news:486d9fec$0$17172$742e...@news.sonic.net...
Hi Jobst,
What is the current best bicycle repair manual? Years ago I had a copy of Glenns Complete bicycle manual.
It was very concise, and had laced up a few rims with it. I know its dated, but is there anything better?
Thanks
jobst....@stanfordalumni.org
> What is the current best bicycle repair manual?
I don't know, not being one to use a manual to maintain a bicycle, the
concepts having been obvious beginning with my first bicycles in grade
school. As I see it, there are people with a natural affinity for
machinery and they don't find maintenance a mechanical mystery. I was
maintaining my parents 1931 Ford in those days as well.
> Years ago I had a copy of Glenns Complete bicycle manual. It was
> very concise, and had laced up a few rims with it. I know its
> dated, but is there anything better?
I think the concepts presented in "the Bicycle Wheel" are typical of
my appreciation of mechanical objects, so I wrote it to assist others
for whom these things are less apparent. That is why it starts with
the technical aspects of how tensioned wire wheels work and how they
fail, before explaining how to put one together.
Jobst Brandt
SMS
> I'm not shilling for this book. I'm inquiring about it, for sale on
> ebay. And I'm not dissing Jobst by repeating what may be mistaken
> claims, below. It antedates the archive of this group. Or, I'm not
> trying hard enough.
Avoid it at all costs.
Tim McNamara
SMS <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
Why? I've never heard of this book before, so I have no sense of the
contents of the book.
Kerry Montgomery
<carl...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:m8br649l45f2ds20r...@4ax.com...
Carl,
It sounds like you may have read both "The Spoking Word" and "The Bicycle
Wheel". Do you have any comparisons you can share? I have a copy of "The
Bicycle Wheel" and think that it is very well done. Would I gain from having
a copy of "The Spoking Word" as well?
Thanks,
Kerry
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Kerry,
I don't have a copy of "The Spoking Word" yet.
It's supposed to arrive in about a week.
My guess is that most RBT posters wouldn't find it worth the ~$15
because most RBT posters don't have copies of the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd
editions of "The Bicycle Wheel" for quick comparison, don't any copies
of "Cycle History Proceedings," and don't argue about how much of "The
Two Noble Kinsmen" was written by Shakespeare.
:-)
Some men, to mangle Shaw, see books on shelves and ask why. I dream
about books that I don't own and ask why I haven't got them.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
travis...@gmail.com
Jobst :
I appreciate that your annoyance with the self-evident redundancy of
"friend of mine" was so great you repeated your entire reply in order
to incorporate that objection. "Friend of mine" has been a longtime
peeve of mine, as well. Indeed, who else's friend but the speaker's.
However, nobody else reading my inquiry mistook the words of the
writer and ebay seller, a friend of the author, for my own. Later on
in this thread we'll see an unqualified thumbs down for the book I was
asking about, Unqualified being double entendre.
Actually, a double entendre redoubled, including, unfortunately your
own thumbs, one to hold down interest and the other in the air to
declare that you were #1 and still are. It would have been gracious of
you to either sit this out if you are unfamiliar with the unpublished
book, or to inquire about it. Maybe the bookseller exagerates the
technical training of his friend, the writer, a "former Boeing
engineer."
I've neither read the book about which I inquired, not heard any of
Leonard Goldberg's music, which the blurb said he also composed. You,
however, have sounded exceptionally sour notes.
When I read reviews of scholarly work, including stuff in sciences, I
usually find deeper appreciation by people who have worked in the same
field.
Harry Travis
Michael Press
carl...@comcast.net wrote:
You probably did not know that Shakespeare invented the halloo-halloo jest
in "One Good Turn Deserves Another."
1st Gatekeeper: Halloo, Halloo. (some read Holla, Holla.)
2nd Gatekeeper: Who be there, by our lady?
1st Gatekeeper: Your arse, by the rood.
2nd Gatekeeper: Your arse be who, in sooth?
1st Gatekeeper: Your arse a stupid question, and methinks you will get a stupid answer.
3rd Murtherrer: Damn.
Or, mahaps, you did.
--
Michael Press
Ryan Cousineau
Bewarned. You'll end up like Umberto Eco:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umberto_Eco#Biography>
50,000 volumes and counting.
I can't find it yet, but I half-remember an anecdote about how is
library actually caused structural problems in one of his domiciles.
Perhaps he documented it in "Travels with a Salmon"?
--
Ryan Cousineau rcou...@gmail.com http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."
Pikachu
<f3e336b9-a396-41a5...@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
"travis...@gmail.com" <travis...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jul 4, 12:01 am, jobst.bra...@stanfordalumni.org wrote:
> > Harry Travis wrote:
> > > I'm not shilling for this book. I'm inquiring about it, for sale on
> > > eBay. And I'm not dissing Jobst by repeating what may be mistaken
> > > claims, below. It antedates the archive of this group. Or, I'm not
> > > trying hard enough.
> >
> > So does "the Bicycle Wheel". There was no ".tech" at that time. It
> > was all "wreck.bike" one big unhappy family.
> >
> > > From the description:
> > > This book was written and self published during the early 1980s by
> > > Leonard Goldberg, a former Boeing engineer, bicycle shop owner,
> > > inventor, composer and an altogether remarkable man. Leonard is a
> > > good friend of mine, which is how I happen to have some of his books
> > > on hand.
> >
> > What other Friends do you have besides "friend of mine", or is that
> > merely the long form of "friend"?
> >
> > <snipped>
> >
> > Jobst Brandt
>
> Jobst :
>
> I appreciate that your annoyance with the self-evident redundancy of
> "friend of mine" was so great you repeated your entire reply in order
> to incorporate that objection. "Friend of mine" has been a longtime
> peeve of mine, as well. Indeed, who else's friend but the speaker's.
> However, nobody else reading my inquiry mistook the words of the
> writer and ebay seller, a friend of the author, for my own. Later on
> in this thread we'll see an unqualified thumbs down for the book I was
> asking about, Unqualified being double entendre.
OT, but perhaps the foreword was written to differentiate between a
"friend of mine" from "friend of ours"?
See the last paragraph from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_men#Overview
In this sense, one should heed the embedded advice and not trust this
Leonard Goldberg person with the family truth of wheelbuilding.
jim beam
except for the wrong parts - you know, where anodizing is blamed for rim
cracking, where the tensiometer math doesn't account for spoke
stiffness, where stainless steel is mistaken for mild steel for strain
aging and fatigue, and where most notably a spoke load calculation is
mistaken for a wheel strength calculation.
> while the second part is a
> failsafe,
failsafe??? with spoke tension "as high as the rim can bear", that's
most definitely not true!
> step-by-step guide, with diagrams, on how to lace wheels of
> various number of spokes and cross patterns.
>
> There being no other attributions, I take it this is your "trying
> harder" to make the book seem like a ground breaker, which it is not.
> "the Bicycle Wheel" was first after many imitators popped up. Gerd
> Schraner's "The Art of Wheelbuilding" was the last:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/58ksmf
>
> The title is appropriate because it treats the aesthetic part of it
> well while not dispelling ancient lore.
and by not guessing, speculating, or straying into territory in which
he's not an expert, he doesn't make fundamental mistakes.
> It no analyses or stress
> computations, something that is not necessary for wheelbuilding but
> helps one understand "Why" various methods work and the causes spoke
> and wheel failure.
>
that's something you don't explain or have mistaken. "residual stress"
for instance.
jim beam
we look forward to your review once you've read it.
carl...@comcast.net
Dear Harry,
Thanks again for bringing "The Spoking Word" to my attention. My copy
arrived Monday.
It's a self-published book with no copyright date, but various
internet sites suggest 1984. There's a table of contents, but pages
run in sections A-N, so you have to count them yourself--my rough
estimate is 180+ pages. No index.
The book seems to be Leonard Goldberg's distillation of points that he
covered when he taught a class called "The Technology of the Spoked
Wheel."
Lots and lots of detailed equations, tables, diagrams, and
explanations about the loss and gain of tension in spokes when the
axle is loaded, when the wheel is accelerating, and when a lateral
load is applied--what you'd expect from a Boeing engineer who also ran
a bike shop going through how forces act on different specific lacing
patterns.
Lacing patterns, hi-lo hubs, and the effect of dish are his real
interest, so anyone curious about something besides symmetrical 3x
both sides may find some interesting details.
Nothing about butted spokes. Fatigue is covered with the comment that
eventually all spokes break. Tying and soldering is thought to add
some strength and even things out.
The brief section on the effect of tire inflation appears to be simply
mistaken, claiming that 80 psi on a 0.75" 27-inch tire produces the
same force as 36 spokes with a tension of 125 lbs. (The real effect is
much less is due to constriction, not an outright application of raw
psi, and can even go the wrong way if the effect of rim spreading
outweighs the effect of constriction.)
Theoretical spoke tension changes were checked by measurements when a
load was added to the axle.
The most interesting thing that I noticed was this graph, which shows
Goldberg's conclusions about calculated spoke tension changes as
spokes roll under the axle on a "rigid" rim (I colored it red) versus
a "soft" rim (black):
http://i34.tinypic.com/2vcx2di.jpg
If Goldberg is correct, more rigid modern rims may have a hidden
benefit, in that their rigidity reduces spoke tension changes as the
wheel rolls, which would reduce fatigue.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
jim beam
indeed. it's the failure to comprehend that the tension changes jobst
shows calculated in his book are in fact primarily rim deformation on
loading. and thus he leaps to incomplete conclusions with his
"standing" theory.
>
> If Goldberg is correct, more rigid modern rims may have a hidden
> benefit, in that their rigidity reduces spoke tension changes as the
> wheel rolls, which would reduce fatigue.
indeed.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Carl Fogel
travis...@gmail.com
> On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 20:36:34 -0700 (PDT), "travis.ha...@gmail.com"
Thank you for taking the time to describe the book and post some
comments.
Would you post here the address of Goldberg's friend and agent, for
anyone else who would wish to buy a copy or offer to publish it?
Last week's New Yorker includes a cartoon that reminds you of a
principal reason for those stiffer, aero rims, as they must contest
with rider unhappiness with their greater weight. An doctor stands
before the half-undressed fellow he is about to examine. He has on the
the sleeves, body, collar, and lapels of his lab coat as many
sponsors, pharmaceuticals and medical device makers, as deep aero rims
afford the team owners.
Harry Travis
carl...@comcast.net
[snip]
Dear Harry,
Ken Rasmussen, 6290 Ershig Road, Bow, WA 98232 may have some copies
left. Ken shipped my copy of "The Spoking Word" right away, no fuss,
no problems.
Of course, anyone who wants a book by mail order can always go to
www.bookfinder.com. I never bother to use anything else.
Right now, www.bookfinder.com shows three used copies for sale.
Here's the cover photo with the details about a reinforced hub with
all drive-side spokes pulling and all non-drive-side spokes trailing:
http://i36.tinypic.com/2udzt4o.jpg
The book also includes some calculations about how much a rim can move
sideways (change of dishing) as it winds up, due to the unbalanced
effects of the pulling spokes and original dishing.
Cheers,
Carl Fogel
kaya...@fidalgo.net
"friend of mine" was well taken, and I've corrected my ebay listing to
reflect it. When I wrote in my ebay description that all other books
on wheel building seemed superficial by comparison, I was wrong on at
least one point--I don't know exactly how many books there may be on
wheelbuilding. I haven't seen Gerd Schraner's "The Art of
Wheelbuilding". I'll have to look for it. I have read Jobst's book,
and for many readers it will be the better choice because it will
actually tell you how to build a wheel, which Leonard's book will not
do. Leonard didn't include that information because, in his words, "I
didn't want to insult people's intelligence. If you want to build a
wheel, you just build a wheel. There's nothing to it." I've spent a
fair amount of time with Leonard and there are a lot of things he just
does that nobody else can do. Just because he doesn't see the problem
doesn't mean there isn't one. That said, I found Jobst's book
superficial as compared to Leonard's because I didn't learn anything
when I read Jobst's book, and I did nothing but learn things when I
read Leonard's. I know a lot about wheelbuilding already, so building
traditional patterns is not news to me.
The sad part is that Leonard has revised "The Spoking Word" to take
rim and hub flexibility into account, but no one will get to read it.
The book more than doubled in length, and some of his recommendations
for selecting designs changed. The revised book is much better and
even more revolutionary than the published work. Leonard died several
weeks ago. I understand that he left some of his manuscripts to me,
including the second revision of "The Spoking Word" that he was
working on just before he died. I spoke to him two weeks before he
passed away, and he told me that he was analysing a number of the new
designs that have come on the market in recent years. He said the
work would never be completely done because new designs keep
appearing. I have the first revision, and I'm looking forward to
getting the second one when Leonard's estate is settled.
Unfortunately none of you will ever see either of the revisions unless
some publisher steps forward and offers to help. It is a sad thing
because the knowledge only exists in these manuscripts. Leonard also
has a very entertaining autobiography that only exists in manuscript
form.
best wishes,
Ken Rasmussen
jim beam
can you not "self-publish" to the net? set it up on blogspot. i'd be
interested to read it.
Michael Press
<f44df50f-330b-47a1...@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com>,
kaya...@fidalgo.net wrote:
> I felt my ears burning--I am Ken Rasmussen. Jobst's point about
> "friend of mine" was well taken, and I've corrected my ebay listing to
> reflect it. When I wrote in my ebay description that all other books
> on wheel building seemed superficial by comparison, I was wrong on at
> least one point--I don't know exactly how many books there may be on
> wheelbuilding. I haven't seen Gerd Schraner's "The Art of
> Wheelbuilding". I'll have to look for it. I have read Jobst's book,
> and for many readers it will be the better choice because it will
> actually tell you how to build a wheel, which Leonard's book will not
> do. Leonard didn't include that information because, in his words, "I
> didn't want to insult people's intelligence. If you want to build a
> wheel, you just build a wheel. There's nothing to it."
There is something to it for beginners, much to it.
* How to lace a wheel
* Importance of oiling threads and nipple seat
* Developing a feel for removing spoke wind-up
* How to raise tension and keep the wheel true
* Importance of keeping the wheel round while tensioning
* ....
> I've spent a
> fair amount of time with Leonard and there are a lot of things he just
> does that nobody else can do. Just because he doesn't see the problem
> doesn't mean there isn't one. That said, I found Jobst's book
> superficial as compared to Leonard's because I didn't learn anything
> when I read Jobst's book, and I did nothing but learn things when I
> read Leonard's.
Too bad. There is much to learn.
> I know a lot about wheelbuilding already, so building
> traditional patterns is not news to me.
Beginners need their hand held. After they are not
beginners anymore they can buy Leonard's book.
Sounds like a fine addition to my coffee table books;
it can prop up the uneven leg.
--
Michael Press
Tom Sherman
> I felt my ears burning--I am . Jobst's point about
> "friend of mine" was well taken, and I've corrected my ebay listing to
> reflect it. When I wrote in my ebay description that all other books
> on wheel building seemed superficial by comparison, I was wrong on at
> least one point--I don't know exactly how many books there may be on
> wheelbuilding. I haven't seen Gerd Schraner's "The Art of
> Wheelbuilding". I'll have to look for it. I have read Jobst's book,
> and for many readers it will be the better choice because it will
> actually tell you how to build a wheel, which Leonard's book will not
> do. Leonard didn't include that information because, in his words, "I
> didn't want to insult people's intelligence. If you want to build a
> wheel, you just build a wheel. There's nothing to it." I've spent a
> fair amount of time with Leonard and there are a lot of things he just
> does that nobody else can do. Just because he doesn't see the problem
> doesn't mean there isn't one.
Sounds like arrogance to me.
> That said, I found Jobst's book
> superficial as compared to Leonard's because I didn't learn anything
> when I read Jobst's book, and I did nothing but learn things when I
> read Leonard's. I know a lot about wheelbuilding already, so building
> traditional patterns is not news to me.
>
Nice bit of self promotion there.
> The sad part is that Leonard has revised "The Spoking Word" to take
> rim and hub flexibility into account, but no one will get to read it.
How could something so essential to the analysis of how a wheel works be
ommitted? Your sophomore engineering student knows enough that one has
to account for elasticity and moment of inertia when analyzing a
statically indeterminate structure.
> The book more than doubled in length, and some of his recommendations
> for selecting designs changed. The revised book is much better and
> even more revolutionary than the published work. Leonard died several
> weeks ago. I understand that he left some of his manuscripts to me,
> including the second revision of "The Spoking Word" that he was
> working on just before he died. I spoke to him two weeks before he
> passed away, and he told me that he was analysing a number of the new
> designs that have come on the market in recent years. He said the
> work would never be completely done because new designs keep
> appearing. I have the first revision, and I'm looking forward to
> getting the second one when Leonard's estate is settled.
> Unfortunately none of you will ever see either of the revisions unless
> some publisher steps forward and offers to help. It is a sad thing
> because the knowledge only exists in these manuscripts. Leonard also
> has a very entertaining autobiography that only exists in manuscript
> form.
>
It appears than Mr. Rasmussen has a serious case of hero worship for Mr.
Goldberg.
--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
“Mary had a little lamb / And when she saw it sicken /
She shipped it off to Packingtown / And now it’s labeled chicken.”
kaya...@fidalgo.net
bicycle trade, and I've been amazed by how little real information is
available regarding bicycle design and materials. For example, what
is the difference between one chain and another? Some cost $10, some
cost $100. Does one last 10 times as long? If so, why? If not, why
is there a huge price difference? And so it goes. We get a lot of
spin, we get a lot of hype, but we don't get much information. I'm
ready to admire anyone's research if it can increase my understanding
of bicycles and cycling. Much seems to be made of the fact that I'm
more enthusiastic about Leonard's book than Jobst's. I think that
misses the point. Jobst wrote a fine book that is bound to be far
more popular and widely read than Leonard's. It just happens that I
already know the subject pretty well, and there wasn't much in Jobst's
book that was new to me. Leonard's book was exciting to me because it
was filled with ideas I'd never encountered elsewhere.
I became acquainted with Leonard's work when I read an article he
wrote for Bicycling Magazine. It was fascinating. Later I noticed
that a class on the subject was being taught in my area, by Leonard.
It turned out that he lived in my town! I took the class, and Leonard
and I became friends. Shortly after that he published his book. He
gave me quite a few copies before he died, and that is how I happen to
be selling them on ebay. As a matter of course, my ebay description
of the book promotes the book. Since it is a book that I like and am
enthusiastic about, my description reflects that. That doesn't mean
everyone else will like the book. It is difficult to read because it
has mathematical content. It will never be a popular book, but it is
great that it exists.
Ken Rasmussen
jim beam
i'm interested to read it - please re-publish.
Michael Press
<7d9982c7-1a9c-49eb...@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>,
kaya...@fidalgo.net wrote:
This amounts to unsolicited commercial solicitations.
You have not addressed any of the responses to assertions
you made previously in this thread.
--
Michael Press
jim beam
of course, spiteful disingenuity is ok, but solicitation, on topic and
in context is absolutely out!!! tell us michael, have you ever
protested any muzi's posts on this basis? how about jobst brandt's?
qspc? mike jacoubowsky? no? then you have some other agenda which
you're not sharing.