Netherlands wolves vs. cyclists?

[Frank Krygowski]

Lou?

https://road.cc/content/news/dutch-cyclists-terrorised-curious-wolves-297199

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Lou Holtman]

Yes that was ‘big’ news here. A few years back there were no wolves here but now there a more and more. There is a lot of discussion if we should allow them to increase in numbers. Farmers are not amused.

Lou

[Frank Krygowski]

Here we are overrun with White Tailed Deer. We've had as many as 13 at a
time in our yard, and the local forest preserve is suffering from
intense overpopulation of deer. They've cleaned out the understory
plants and greatly reduced habitat for many bird species.

We have some coyotes, fairly recent additions to our ecosystem. But
they're not doing enough to keep the deer population down.

I've wondered if wolves might help. But I can't imagine they'd be accepted.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[AMuzi]

On 11/10/2022 1:26 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> Lou?
>
> https://road.cc/content/news/dutch-cyclists-terrorised-curious-wolves-297199
>
>

Might only be shape shifter Mr Lieberman.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[AMuzi]

On 11/10/2022 2:03 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 11/10/2022 2:44 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>> On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 8:26:11 PM UTC+1, Frank
>> Krygowski wrote:
>>> Lou?
>>>
>>> https://road.cc/content/news/dutch-cyclists-terrorised-curious-wolves-297199
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>

>> Yes that was ‘big’ news here. A few years back there

>> were no wolves here but now there a more and more. There
>> is a lot of discussion if we should allow them to increase
>> in numbers. Farmers are not amused.
>
> Here we are overrun with White Tailed Deer. We've had as
> many as 13 at a time in our yard, and the local forest
> preserve is suffering from intense overpopulation of deer.
> They've cleaned out the understory plants and greatly
> reduced habitat for many bird species.
>
> We have some coyotes, fairly recent additions to our
> ecosystem. But they're not doing enough to keep the deer
> population down.
>
> I've wondered if wolves might help. But I can't imagine
> they'd be accepted.
>

Wolves are a powerful symbol or totem to urban office types,
hence 'restoration' policy. Rural citizens with farm dogs,
calves and three year olds view wolves differently.

I'm with you on those killer venison suicide bombs, but
wolves haven't made a dent here at all. Coyotes rarely take
deer.

Twenty miles from me, last week:

https://www.channel3000.com/motorcyclist-dies-after-hitting-deer-in-columbia-county-sheriffs-office-says/

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 14:06:59 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 11/10/2022 1:26 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> Lou?
>>
>> https://road.cc/content/news/dutch-cyclists-terrorised-curious-wolves-297199

>Might only be shape shifter Mr Lieberman.

Please be nice. They might be my relatives:
<http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/jeffl/jeffl-wolf.gif>
This is from 1997:
<https://members.cruzio.com/~jeffl/nooze/werewolf.txt>

Someone arranged to have US election day this year coincide with the
night of the full moon. It took me all day Weds to recover. Must be
a conspiracy.

Gone for a blood draw. Not exactly my idea of a fun afternoon.
Werewolves and vampires don't really get along.
--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Catrike Rider]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 14:13:05 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 11/10/2022 2:03 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 11/10/2022 2:44 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>> On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 8:26:11 PM UTC+1, Frank
>>> Krygowski wrote:
>>>> Lou?
>>>>
>>>> https://road.cc/content/news/dutch-cyclists-terrorised-curious-wolves-297199
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>

>>> Yes that was ‘big’ news here. A few years back there

>>> were no wolves here but now there a more and more. There
>>> is a lot of discussion if we should allow them to increase
>>> in numbers. Farmers are not amused.
>>
>> Here we are overrun with White Tailed Deer. We've had as
>> many as 13 at a time in our yard, and the local forest
>> preserve is suffering from intense overpopulation of deer.
>> They've cleaned out the understory plants and greatly
>> reduced habitat for many bird species.
>>
>> We have some coyotes, fairly recent additions to our
>> ecosystem. But they're not doing enough to keep the deer
>> population down.
>>
>> I've wondered if wolves might help. But I can't imagine
>> they'd be accepted.
>>
>
>Wolves are a powerful symbol or totem to urban office types,
>hence 'restoration' policy. Rural citizens with farm dogs,
>calves and three year olds view wolves differently.
>
>I'm with you on those killer venison suicide bombs, but
>wolves haven't made a dent here at all. Coyotes rarely take
>deer.

True. It'd take a several coyotes to bring down a healthy white tail.
I've seen coyottes run off with their tail between their legs being
chased by does with a fawn or two.

[Tom Kunich]

Male Wolves can roam 100's of miles from where you think that their range is. That was being denied by Jeff here when I reported that I watched a Wolf running across the side of one of the major park hills there. Finally Fish and Wildlife admitted that there were wolves in the Sierra Nevada mountains in California and that is 250 miles away from where I saw a male. Wolf packs are composed of females and young males. Older males are free ranging and usually not a large problem unless they are becoming tame from people feeding them and such. Wolf packs WILL grab children so allowing packs even inside of parks is not a good idea. Human's treat them as dogs and they most certainly are not. The Inuit (Alaskan natives) raise them from pups and train them to pull sleds but even growing up completely in captivity they never lose their wildness and you can never turn your back on them or they will attack you.

It isn't very far from what appears to be a single wolf following a bicyclist to a pack taking one down because they are instinctively attacking a food source.

[John B.]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 14:13:05 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 11/10/2022 2:03 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 11/10/2022 2:44 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>> On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 8:26:11 PM UTC+1, Frank
>>> Krygowski wrote:
>>>> Lou?
>>>>
>>>> https://road.cc/content/news/dutch-cyclists-terrorised-curious-wolves-297199
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>

>>> Yes that was ‘big’ news here. A few years back there

>>> were no wolves here but now there a more and more. There
>>> is a lot of discussion if we should allow them to increase
>>> in numbers. Farmers are not amused.
>>
>> Here we are overrun with White Tailed Deer. We've had as
>> many as 13 at a time in our yard, and the local forest
>> preserve is suffering from intense overpopulation of deer.
>> They've cleaned out the understory plants and greatly
>> reduced habitat for many bird species.
>>
>> We have some coyotes, fairly recent additions to our
>> ecosystem. But they're not doing enough to keep the deer
>> population down.
>>
>> I've wondered if wolves might help. But I can't imagine
>> they'd be accepted.
>>
>
>Wolves are a powerful symbol or totem to urban office types,
>hence 'restoration' policy. Rural citizens with farm dogs,
>calves and three year olds view wolves differently.
>
>I'm with you on those killer venison suicide bombs, but
>wolves haven't made a dent here at all. Coyotes rarely take
>deer.
>
>Twenty miles from me, last week:
>
>https://www.channel3000.com/motorcyclist-dies-after-hitting-deer-in-columbia-county-sheriffs-office-says/

New Hampshire records over a thousand motor vehicle - deer collisions
annually. Maine has 6,000 or so annually and Vermont has about 3,000
and this in states where there have always been deer and people do
know about the dangers.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Tom Kunich]

On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 12:07:00 PM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
> On 11/10/2022 1:26 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > Lou?
> >
> > https://road.cc/content/news/dutch-cyclists-terrorised-curious-wolves-297199
> >
> >
> Might only be shape shifter Mr Lieberman.

Wolves used to run from humans because they carried guns. Now people like Frank believe that is uncivilized and has never been further than a stones throw from a city. When he talks about Touring I get a very strong picture that he has never looked around himself. A large touring group might look like a pack to other predators, but guns were invented for self protection. Out on the farms close to San Francisco you can STILL run across Cougar and Coyote's. With the tendency towards "saving the animals" the wolves are returning as well as bears of all types. If you think that running across one of them while riding off-road without self defense of any sort, you're likely to find out the hard way what Mother Nature really is.

[Catrike Rider]

I see coyotes every now and then on my bike rides. I used to have them
in my woods when I lived in Wisconsin. We could hear the young ones
yipping for joy in the middle of the night when mommy or daddy brought
home dinner. I've never considered them dangerous to grown up humans.
They've always run off when they've seen me.

[AMuzi]

On 11/10/2022 5:00 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 14:13:05 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 11/10/2022 2:03 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 11/10/2022 2:44 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>> On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 8:26:11 PM UTC+1, Frank
>>>> Krygowski wrote:
>>>>> Lou?
>>>>>
>>>>> https://road.cc/content/news/dutch-cyclists-terrorised-curious-wolves-297199
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>

>>>> Yes that was ‘big’ news here. A few years back there

"know about the dangers"

I've 'known' about deer on the road as a danger since I was
a child. I've still hit a couple of dozen over the years.

40-second example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpXLGM2R63M

[AMuzi]

+1

They howl from both sides above the valley at girlfriend's
place but they are scrawny and not a threat to an adult human.

[Frank Krygowski]

I've seen them cross the road in front of me on local bike rides. I've
heard them howling in the woods a short distance from a friend's
backyard, and while I've never seen one in our yard, a biologist friend
who lives nearby hears them from his place and assures me they must have
been here.

He tells me they will take fawns. He's against hunts to cull WT Deer
(I'm strongly in favor) because he thinks the rising coyote population
will eventually cure the deer problem. But other biologists I know
disagree.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[John B.]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 17:39:43 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 11/10/2022 5:00 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 14:13:05 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/10/2022 2:03 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 11/10/2022 2:44 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 8:26:11 PM UTC+1, Frank
>>>>> Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>> Lou?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://road.cc/content/news/dutch-cyclists-terrorised-curious-wolves-297199
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>

>>>>> Yes that was ‘big’ news here. A few years back there

(:-) And here I thought you were a big city boy (:-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

I've come fairly close many times. A few years ago, I did barely hit a
buck who ran across in front of me. I think my left headlight lens must
have hit his rear hoof. The sound was quite loud, but there was no
visible damage to the car or the deer, from what I could tell. He kept
running full speed.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Catrike Rider]

Coyottes won't cure the deer problem. A pack of wolves might make a
dent in the deer population, but the problem is that the deer
population is thriving on the farm crops and there's just too many of
them.

[Catrike Rider]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 17:39:43 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 11/10/2022 5:00 PM, John B. wrote:
>> On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 14:13:05 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/10/2022 2:03 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>> On 11/10/2022 2:44 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>> On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 8:26:11 PM UTC+1, Frank
>>>>> Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>> Lou?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://road.cc/content/news/dutch-cyclists-terrorised-curious-wolves-297199
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>

>>>>> Yes that was ‘big’ news here. A few years back there

My daughter hit one last fall. Totaled her SUV. I never hit one, which
is a wonder since I commuted 30+ miles each way, mostly on country
roads.. I did see one get hit right in front of me.

[AMuzi]

On 11/10/2022 6:05 PM, John B. wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 17:39:43 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>
>> On 11/10/2022 5:00 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 14:13:05 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/10/2022 2:03 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>> On 11/10/2022 2:44 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 8:26:11 PM UTC+1, Frank
>>>>>> Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>> Lou?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://road.cc/content/news/dutch-cyclists-terrorised-curious-wolves-297199
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>

>>>>>> Yes that was ‘big’ news here. A few years back there

Grew up outside a small town. I have lived urban, but now
(past 10 years) rural again.

[AMuzi]

On 11/10/2022 6:10 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 11/10/2022 6:39 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 11/10/2022 5:00 PM, John B. wrote:
>>> On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 14:13:05 -0600, AMuzi
>>> <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 11/10/2022 2:03 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>> On 11/10/2022 2:44 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>> On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 8:26:11 PM UTC+1, Frank
>>>>>> Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>> Lou?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://road.cc/content/news/dutch-cyclists-terrorised-curious-wolves-297199
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>

>>>>>> Yes that was ‘big’ news here. A few years

That's a successful deer encounter.

[AMuzi]

+1
https://huntspot.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/deer-eating-corn.jpg

[John B.]

On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 19:20:01 -0600, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 11/10/2022 6:10 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 11/10/2022 6:39 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 11/10/2022 5:00 PM, John B. wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 10 Nov 2022 14:13:05 -0600, AMuzi
>>>> <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 11/10/2022 2:03 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>> On 11/10/2022 2:44 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 8:26:11 PM UTC+1, Frank
>>>>>>> Krygowski wrote:
>>>>>>>> Lou?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://road.cc/content/news/dutch-cyclists-terrorised-curious-wolves-297199
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> - Frank Krygowski
>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Yes that was ‘big’ news here. A few years

Something I've always wondered about is that if you see a deer
standing on the side of the road you can be almost positive that as
soon as you get close enough it will run out in front of the car. One
would think that it would run the other way to get away from that
monstrous thing that is frightening it.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Radey Shouman]

Mountain lions are what you need. I'll bet they lived there at one time.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 11/10/2022 8:51 PM, John B. wrote:
>
> Something I've always wondered about is that if you see a deer
> standing on the side of the road you can be almost positive that as
> soon as you get close enough it will run out in front of the car. One
> would think that it would run the other way to get away from that
> monstrous thing that is frightening it.

I think at least some of them just don't perceive cars to be a hazard.
One of my encounters (not really a near miss, because I was very aware
as it happened) was a doe walking across a two lane, 45 mph road. I saw
her in plenty of time as she crossed the opposing lane. Then she stopped
with her front feet on the shoulder, her rump well into the road in
front of me. I came nearly to a stop and honked the horn, and she
strolled off the road.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Roger Merriman]

Don’t think any animals do they don’t seem to be able understand the speeds
and mass.

Took a while to train my folks dog on MTB rides for that reason he’d stop
dead etc.

Roger Merriman