Leftists Are About to Kill Millions of People Right Before Our Eyes

[Andre Jute]

I love it when conservatives catch up to what I've been saying for decades, that the religious weather fetish of left wing kills millions of defenseless people every year. Here's Kurt Schlichter with an update about a new tranche of forthcoming murders by the Donkey Party:

Leftists Are About to Kill Millions of People Right Before Our Eyes
https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2022/05/26/leftists-are-about-to-kill-millions-of-people-right-before-our-eyes-n2607820

That scum have killed hundreds of millions of women and children already by banning DDT for zero reason except to flex their muscles (which they admitted). They knew it didn't cause cancer in humans.

Andre Jute
This isn't mere carelessness, this is another pre-planned racist genocide.

[Tom Kunich]

On Thursday, May 26, 2022 at 7:59:45 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
> I love it when conservatives catch up to what I've been saying for decades, that the religious weather fetish of left wing kills millions of defenseless people every year. Here's Kurt Schlichter with an update about a new tranche of forthcoming murders by the Donkey Party:
>
> Leftists Are About to Kill Millions of People Right Before Our Eyes
> https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2022/05/26/leftists-are-about-to-kill-millions-of-people-right-before-our-eyes-n2607820
>
> That scum have killed hundreds of millions of women and children already by banning DDT for zero reason except to flex their muscles (which they admitted). They knew it didn't cause cancer in humans.

Just this morning i watched a video of Carl Sagan testifying before Congress on the sources of climate change. While his recommendations for nuclear energy were perfectly sound, the rest of his testimony was pure garbage.

1. He said that the greenhouse effect was extremely sensitive to the levels of CO2. Up to a certain point it certainly is - on the way into the atmpsphere the very narrow and very small levels of infrared radiation in the bands absorbed by CO2 are captured. But at about 380 ppm these wavelengths are entirely absorbed and no additional levels of CO2 have any effect. Ths is proven by the fact that during the last Ice Age there was 15 times the present levels of CO2. Does that sound like "very sensitive"?

2. He used Venus as an example of the "greenhouse effect" gone wild because of CO2. This was about the most stupid thing possible.. The atmosphere on Venus is 6 1/2 time denser than WATER on Earth. There is NO CO2 gas on Venus because at those pressures it has become liquified. Venus is hotter on the surface than the sunny side of Mercury because the heat cannot escape though an atmosphere that dense and a planet 29% closer to the Sun meaning that it receives 2 times as much solar energy as Earth does

3. The Sun's energy does not escape from the surface of the Earth via radiation because the levels of energy are nowhere near high enough to radiate. It excapes via conduction as you can see above a parking lot on a hot day the shimmering effects from heat conduction. All of the atmospheric gases conduct heat almost identically so that energy is conducted and NOT radiated into the upper Stratosphere where a very complex system operates where the gases in the Ionosphere combine with the Solar radition and escaping heat to radiate the Sun's enegy largely away from the Earth though some of it indeed is returned to Earth to go thorugh the same process and hence finally escape from the planet. This is what maintains the heat balance of the Earth and it has very little to do with the supposed "greenhouse effect".

Because you know a piece of a puzzle does not mean that the puzzle has been completed. The Earth is not 40% warmer than it would be without the "greenhouse effect" but because the speed of conduction in the lower atmosphere is much slower than the almost instantaneous radiation of energy.

What this means is that John with his brain of mush will Google this and repeat the same errors that Carl Sagan planted into the public psychy. And Frank, Russel and Flunky will agree with him entirely. Scharf has lately been learning to think before reacting so his response is unknown from this distance.

[John B.]

Nope Tommy. I'm not going to bother googling. Why? Well because
whatever effect humanity has on the climate is going to happen. China,
as a country releases about twice the CO2 as the U.S. but the U.S.
releases about twice the amount that China does on an individual basis
and we all know that USians just HAVE to have the two cars in the
yard, the big screen TV in the bedroom and all the other necessities
of life. So the CO2 level is never going to drop. So global warming
and climate change is a fact.

As for your arguments about the atmosphere of Venus? Would you care to
provide a tiny bit of proof as to your assertions? I ask as, your
history has been ~99% error and I want to se if you are your usual
ignorant self or (perhaps) you have learned something.
(Although the latter is extremely unlikely)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[pH]

Well, this certainly piqued my curiousity....but got a '404' error on the
link, though.

pH

[Andre Jute]

Just checked the link. It works.
https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2022/05/26/leftists-are-about-to-kill-millions-of-people-right-before-our-eyes-n2607820
-- AJ

[sms]

Try
<https://newrepublic.com/article/166069/ddt-ban-rachel-carson-silent-spring>.
Andre can educate himself at that site as well.

[Andre Jute]

>
Hokkay, so Slow Johnny agrees with Kurt Schlichkter and me and Tom Kunich and all the other thoughtful people who go to the source, and then do their own thinking. But suddenly Slow Johnny is too lazy to Google anything. That's one for the record books, but all it means is that Slow Johnny know Tom is right. Again. But Slow Johnny just doesn't have the willpower to resist a snide remark. What a wretched little man.
>
Andre Jute
And not a word about the unfortunates from the ranks of the most defenseless people in the world that Biden and his bunch of murderous incompetent are killing.

[Andre Jute]

Thanks, Scharfie, but after I finished educating myself about the DDT murders, you'll remember that I was the one that named Rachel Carson the Patron Saint of Genocides for here vicious lies. -- AJ
>
The link I gave works. I give it again:
https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2022/05/26/leftists-are-about-to-kill-millions-of-people-right-before-our-eyes-n2607820

[Tom Kunich]

Yesterday when I tried your link it didn't work. Today it does.

[Tom Kunich]

Slow Johnny is getting really old and approaching death and his release into hell merely by denying it. Just as with Frank, it isn't going to work. When you live by the sword of hatred, you die by it.

[Tom Kunich]

DDT is so poisonous to man that it is contained in RAID spray bottles to be used inside houses to be used on flies and other flying insects and also for killing ants. It is perfectly harmless to the mammals etc.

Now there is something to be said about wholescale spraying of DDT which WAS being used to spray on wetlands to abate mosquitos etc. instead of building human habitations away from those areas but use on farmlands was fair usage and the laws again use of it killed people through higher food costs and insect borne diseases.

I believe that at this point we can now refer to Scharf as "Beto" - nothing but a cheap politician attempting to find a crusade to join

[AMuzi]

doesn't display for me either.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[AMuzi]

Where's Margaret Sanger on that list?

[AMuzi]

DDT is not in home-use pesticides. Would that it were but
that ended years ago:

https://blog.lost-history.com/ddt-global-ban-myth

An exercise in raw cynical power. Or in the words of William
Ruckleshaus after his panel of scientists advised that DDT
was useful and safe, "If we can ban DDT, we can ban
anything." And so they have.

[Frank Krygowski]

> DDT is not in home-use pesticides. Would that it were...

Why? We're certainly not having excessive problems with insects here.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Tom Kunich]

I rarely had any need of fly and ant killer so the old cans I had still had DDT in them. But I have purchased new cans and I see that they now contain a poison that is deadly to children. This poison is so strong that the can contains only 0.2% poison and the rest carriers and chemical that precent the poisons from degrading.

THIS was the tradeoff that Silent Sping caused.

[Andre Jute]

No, you smug, vicious moron, but in the rest of the world, especially those parts of where world bodies under pressure from the Americans won't give any financial support in countries where DDT is used, the choice is between starvation and misery, and mostly just between starvation and starvation because they don't have the money without the aid to buy the necessary DDT. There are many things that make you hateful, Franki-boy, but your indifference to suffering, as long as it suffering of others, is surely one of the most obnoxious traits of Frank Krygowski.
>
I'm Andre Jute and I approve of this message.
>

[Andre Jute]

>Archived article, newly copied link:
https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2022/05/26/leftists-are-about-to-kill-millions-of-people-right-before-our-eyes-n2607820
>
It appears to be exactly the same link I've been giving, but perhaps you'll have better luck with this one. Sorry I can't be more help but this is baffling.
>
Andre Jute
Nothing is as unpredictable as certainty.
>

[Andre Jute]

That's a fair question, Andrew. For those left-wingers so badly educated that they don't know who Margaret Sanger was, she was the eugenicist who thought that abortion of unsuitable people, expressed as "the Negro Problem", but including the mentally subnormal (then why are there so many vicious idiots on RBT), the syphilytic, would lead to a stronger society. It wasn't only Hitler who was a eugenicist, so was Wilson and Roosevelt and a great many of the great and good, a very large swathe of left-wingers. Sanger was the Patron Saint of Roe and Parent Planning or whatever that coven of criminals is called.
>
It's a sickening business ranking genocidal do-gooders. We all know that Hitler killed 6m "untermenschen" (Jews) but he killed more Slavs any more Russians, and Stalin killed whatever Russian prisoners of war survived Hitler's camps (the British shamefully gave over about 350K prisoners of war they held in a resettlement camp when it was already known that Stalin would kill them -- and he did). Stalin is reckoned by some to have killed 3.5m Russian peasants in the great Kulak (rich peasant, defined as owning more than one jacket); his grand total is about 60m of his own and other peoples murdered, and Sanger marginally beats him with an estimated 60+m murders in the womb, partially out of, sometimes even wholly out of it (when it gets counted as infanticide rather than abortion). There's also Mao, whose grand total will never be known (according to a composer I dropped a dime on for a residency at a university, who was quoting his father, one of the most distinguished of the Chinese demographers). Pol Pot, who killed a measly 8.5m people, in this company is a piker, even Hitler doesn't rate much, though they're not likely to thank me for saying so in Tel Aviv.
>
But even Mao and Stalin aren't even in the ballpark when you look at what Rachel Carson, Patron Saint of the Genocides, with assistance from the environmentalists, Ruckelshaus and, surprisingly, Richard Nixon, set in train with that unnecessary, politically inspired, dickswinging (the purpose was explicitly to "show the politicians who's boss"). I stopped looking when I turned 65, a bit old for running food convoys across Africa as I did as a young man, but the last time I looked, there were 220m people, most women and children, dead of starvation in Africa for simple lack of DDT.
>
And now there's Biden and the New Greens creating havoc all over the world. Biden stands fair to become the greatest genocidal killer of them all. He'll someday have a Church of the Greenies, like L Ron Hubbard has his own church (Slow Jonny will look it up for the rest of you monkeys -- Mr Muzi and the rest of the decent people don't need a reference.)
>
I thus conclude at the end of this analysis in answer to your question, that in the first rank of genocidal psychopaths stands only Rachel Carson, and the likes of Stalin, Mao and Sanger are in a sparely populated second rank, with the likes of Pol Pot and Hitler and many other truly evil men lagging in the third rank.
>
Andre Jute
Listening to lute music by J S Bach, recollecting that after WW2 T W Adorno said that no one could write poetry after such and evil.

[Frank Krygowski]

More offensiveness in an attempt to gather interest.

We've seen so much of this. [yawn] It's still boring.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[pH]

Thank-you for the resend....I tried again w/ the same result.
Perhaps I'm being "protected" from reading scary things that might make me
need my smelling salts..
I did get a a page titled "Townhall", though....I'll do some poking around
there.

Thanks! pH

[Tom Kunich]

Kragowski is like ALL leftists and he couldn't care less about the misery and the loss of lives all over the world from his false beliefs. As I said before if he went to Poland and spouted the stuff he denies is communist propaganda he would soon end up buried in his ancestral home because Poland had "income equality" up to their ears and want no more of it or the communists who propagate it. He is a creature so mentally ill and so uneducated that he is a joke even among leftists.

[Tom Kunich]

It was nothing more than an article describing that cutting gasoline and natural gas energy sources leads to industrial losses that end up leading to losses of lives in rather larger numbers than suspected. Since Biden has been in office some 300,000 people have died from Fentanyl poisoning. These are a large percentage of those claimed to have died from covid-19. What do you suppose people do when they can't work?

[John B.]

For some reason it comes up loud and clear here. It seems to be a
rather frantic claim that because of the high price of gasoline the
world is coming to an end with zillions of Bangladeshis dropping dead.

And down to the bottom of the page is a genteel reminder to "
pre-order my next non-fiction book We’ll Be Back: The Fall and Rise of
America owns the libs as it discusses all sorts of terrible scenarios
that America might well face."
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Andre Jute]

If you can get Townhall, you're probably only two pages away. Go to the columnists and click on a column, any column, by Kurt Schlichter, and then on the page of the column click on his name, which will take you to a list of his recent articles where you can scroll down until you reach: Leftists Are About to Kill Millions of People Right Before Our Eyes. I'm embarrassed about giving a link with such spotty coverage, and an opening for that ward heeler Scharfie to slip in another link of lies, and can only think this is Google protecting you against the truth, again. -- AJ

[Andre Jute]

I feel sorry for you, Franki-boy, but you're probably right: you're not qualified to argue cases with me, and you don't have moral interest anyway, so you're probably right to stick to vapid generalities.
>
I'm Andre Jute and I approve this message.

[Tom Kunich]

Scharf is willing to promote any and every piece of garbage and pretend that he is some sort of expert in it. There was NO PROBLEMS with DDT and the outlawing of it which mindless twits like the Congress cause mass starvation in the third world. And Scharfie thinks that wonderful.

I finally used up my last bottle of RAID with DDT in it and bought a new one expecting the some ingredients. Andrew soon corrected me on that so I looked up the ingredients and it is a poison so powerrful that the entire contents of the large can is only 0.2% and the remaining 99.8% is carrier and ingredients to prevent degredation of the poison. One of the first things it says is "Keep out of reach of Children". And then tells you to take your childen to a hospital if they are exposed to it. This is what Scharf believes to be superior to the absolute lie about DDT spread by a person without ANY training in chemistry.

The absolute filth of the left simply cannot cleaned. Anything that they think they can gain the slightest power with no matter how large the lie, they will try. It has become an entire party devoted to the policies of Joseph Goebbels.

[Tom Kunich]

Franks touts communist propaganda in a continuous slather and then has the unmitigated gall to say that he isn't a communist. That SOB tells us that a poll taken RIGHT AFTER the school shooting gives an honest representation of people's beliefs in the 2nd Amendment. What do you suppose people would give for an answer about Gun Control if you informed them that more people were killed with knives than guns. But Frank will jump at ANY lie to support his idiotic beliefs.

Frank is NOT going to get his open theft from billionaires and he isn't going to get Gun Control because the founders of this country clearly SAW that people like Frank would come along and wish to disarm the population.

Let's not mention that the PEW research group reported that 47% of household have guns in them. But the police say that is a very large underestimate and that is why they ALWAYS treat honest citizens as armed and possibly deadly. But don't quote the cops to Frank. He can tell us that after a school shooting that you can get people to say that we should have stronger gun control even if those SAME people presuppose that it would not effect their ownership of guns.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 5/28/2022 5:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> What do you suppose people would give for an answer about Gun Control if you informed them that more people were killed with knives than guns.

Regarding the U.S.?? People would correctly say that Tom is a liar and a
fool.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/

Where on earth do you get your wild ideas, Tom?

--
- Frank Krygowski

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

113 other guns
203 shotguns
455 rifles
4863 firearms, type not stated
8029 handguns
13,663 total
1739 knives
7.86 to 1 ratio.
12.7% as many knives as guns.

I guess for Tommy that is pretty accurate. Overstating by 786%, for Tommy that is accurate.

[Andre Jute]

>
Except for Scharfie's hit and run link to a bunch of lies, which is just a more sophisticated case of the same incompetence, the RBT Scum seem incapable of discussing cases on a serious moral question, instead diverting the threat to their pointless perpetual bullying of Tom. Aren't these worthless wankers the ones who're always posturing as if they're morally superior?
>
I'm Andre Jute and I approve of this true message.

[AMuzi]

Mr Kunich is prone to conflating things. In this case knives
(or hands and feet for that matter) outnumber rifles for
homicide by a lot. But not more than 'all firearms'.

[Andre Jute]

Hell, I should be so lucky as to have so many earnest, dedicated, hardworking, unpaid research assistants as Tom has gathered around him with very little apparent effort. Why, one of Tom's research assistants was a professor of welding, another was an accountant, still another was mayor of some hick suburb out in Donkeyland aka California. That's heavy stuff, most admirable, even enviable.
>
Andre Jute
Hey, Tom, in my prime my research assistants wore miniskirts or hot pants.
>

[Tom Kunich]

I'm pretty sure that Scharf, Russell and Flunky wear hot pants and miniskirts. John would but knows what they do to those kind in Thailand. Frank would like to but being a college instructor can't figure out how to put them on.

[Tom Kunich]

On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 8:45:13 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> On 5/28/2022 5:58 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 5/28/2022 5:53 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> >> What do you suppose people would give for an answer about
> >> Gun Control if you informed them that more people were
> >> killed with knives than guns.
> >
> > Regarding the U.S.?? People would correctly say that Tom is
> > a liar and a fool.
> >
> > https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/
> >
> >
> > Where on earth do you get your wild ideas, Tom?
> >
> Mr Kunich is prone to conflating things. In this case knives
> (or hands and feet for that matter) outnumber rifles for
> homicide by a lot. But not more than 'all firearms'.

If you consider that most pistol homicides are suicides by a healthy margin and that rifles are included in nearly NO homicides, I made the error of not specifying "more murders by a large margin are committed with knives rather than rifles."

That pin headed Frank and his belief that "noboby needs an assault weapon" when he can't even define what an "assault weapon" is is maddening.

Everyone should be aware that the rifle that killed the most people in this entire world is a Kalishnikov (AK-47) and it looks just like any hunting rifle - very similar to an M1B.

Don't believe me, then listen to the FBI: https://dailycaller.com/2021/03/24/knives-kill-more-people-than-rifles-every-year/

[Frank Krygowski]

On Sunday, May 29, 2022 at 2:07:49 PM UTC-4, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> If you consider that most pistol homicides are suicides by a healthy margin and that rifles are included in nearly NO homicides, I made the error of not specifying "more murders by a large margin are committed with knives rather than rifles."

Benefits vs. Detriments, Tom. Why is that so hard for you?

No country on earth gets by without the use of knives by the public. Their benefits are many . Dozens of countries do far, far better than the U.S. without the use of AR style weapons by the public.

> That pin headed Frank and his belief that "noboby needs an assault weapon" when he can't even define what an "assault weapon" is is maddening.

Ah, Tom, if only you had a memory! Let's try again. Here's a definition:

"The term assault weapon is used in the United States to define different types of firearms.[1] The definition varies among regulating jurisdictions, but usually includes semi-automatic firearms with a detachable magazine, a pistol grip, and sometimes other features, such as a vertical forward grip, flash suppressor, or barrel shroud.[1][2] Certain firearms are specified by name in some laws that restrict assault weapons.[3] When the now-defunct Federal Assault Weapons Ban was passed in 1994, the U.S. Department of Justice said, "In general, assault weapons are semiautomatic firearms with a large magazine of ammunition that were designed and configured for rapid fire and combat use."[3]

The AR was designed for combat use. Look it up.

- Frank Krygowski

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

M1B?????? I did a search and did come up with variants of the M1 labeled C and D. They were fitted with scopes and called sniper rifles. Very limited production and use. But I don't think there is anything called an M1B. It was just the M1 Garand. Garand for the Canadian who designed the rifle. The M1 was the official US military rifle from 1936 to 1957.

Now, whether the M1 Garand and the AK47 and any hunting rifle look similar, well.........

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47
Typical hunting rifles are the Remington 700 or the Winchester 70.
https://www.remarms.com/rifles/bolt-action/model-700/
https://www.winchesterguns.com/products/rifles/model-70/current.html

Once again, we have Tommy talking out of his back side about something he is completely clueless about. Typical Tommy. Tell us Tommy boy, how many hunting rifles are loaded with a clip into the internal magazine? None? Do you even know what an M1 Garand is? I doubt it. It was the semi auto rifle used by the military in WW2 and Korea. It was loaded with an 8 round clip that was shoved into the internal magazine from the top. Through the open bolt. Semi auto hunting rifles use an external magazine. That is pushed into the rifle.

Your cluelessness is truly astounding.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

I doubt Tommy has the intelligence to look it up. But everyone in the world, except Tommy apparently, knows the AR-15 model was designed by Eugene Stoner at Armalite back in the 1950s. It was for a military contract, request, for new military rifles. The US military realized after WW2 and Korea that the M1 Garand was not ideal. The M16 was developed from the AR-15 prototype. And the M16 was adopted by the US military in the 1960s as its rifle. And has been used ever since. And is used by lots of other militaries in the world too. So it has seen some combat use.

[John B.]

Actually didn't the AK sort of influence the development of the AR?
And the AK was influenced by the German Sturmgewehr 44 (of 1944 :-)
(in fact that is where the name Storm-assault Gewehr -rifle came from
:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

When I was young the most popular deer rifles were surplus
M1 in .308.

[Tom Kunich]

Well, the M1 was a 30-06 of which the .308 is a shortened version which makes ejection of the spent round faster and allows a clip feed that can give you more rounds to fire before needing a new clip. This is used on the M1B.

Can you imagine the terror on Frank's face when he discovers that all of his attempts at defining an "assault weapon" fail miserably when confronted with a M1B which looks just like any semi-automatic hunting rifle?

[Andre Jute]

Nah, if one assault rifle looks like a hunting rifle and 999 hunting rifles look merely like hunting rifles, Franki-boy will smugly want to ban all 1000 rifles. That's because he's the sort of scum who always knows better than everyone else. That is a stain even John the Baptist with all the water in the Sea of Galilee can't wash off Frank Krygowski.
>
I'm Andre Jute and the NRA didn't pay me for this message.

[Tom Kunich]

I wonder what Frank is going to think when all of the illegals start being transplanted near him?

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

No. The M1 Garand was only produced in 30-06 caliber. .30 caliber Springfield 1906. Thus 30-aught 6. 30-06. Not 308 Winchester. Same bullet but different casing length and different power. 30-06 is a little more powerful than 308 Winchester. 63mm case compared to 51mm casing. The US Navy did briefly make a 308 Winchester version after WW2. The M1 Garand copied the 1903 Springfield bolt action rifle from WW1 for caliber. Bolt action 30-06 for WW1. Semi auto 30-06 for WW2.
https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/longgun_reviews_st_0302_springfield/100437
https://www.quora.com/What-caliber-round-does-the-M1-Garand-use
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand

[AMuzi]

WWII Garands are 30-06. The Army changed to .308 in the
1950s. Both are very available:
https://thecmp.org/sales-and-service/m1-garand/

[Andre Jute]

>
Hey, Seaton or Eaton or whatever your name is: Now that you're such a firearms expert and obsessive, will we soon see your name in the headlines as another ;school shooter, hoping to kill the grandchildren of the girl who wouldn't go to the school dance with you because you were such a grabby creep?

[Tom Kunich]

I don't think that is his sexual preference.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

No. The link you provided is for a company that makes new barrels for the Garand. In a different caliber. Sort of. .30-06 and .308 are the same bullet. But use different length casings with different amounts of powder. This CMP company puts different barrels with different gas ports in the original M1 Garand rifles. Thus making them compatible with weaker .308 rounds. But this CMP company is NOT selling you an original M1 Garand. The Army did not make 308 Garand rifles. The Army only made 30-06 Garands. The US Navy briefly adapted some M1 Garands to 7.62x51mm .308 caliber. But those are now collector items. The link below talks about the Navy conversion.

My original comment was based on your quote of "When I was young the most popular deer rifles were surplus M1 in .308." No. Not possible because the Army never ever made M1 Garands in .308. And did not sell the never made rifles as surplus. You said surplus M1 in .308. Which would imply surplus rifles from WW2. Or Korea. There were not any surplus rifles from the Army after WW2 in .308. They were all 30-06 surplus rifles. You could have bought one of these surplus 30-06 rifles and had it rebarreled and ported for .308. Yes. But generally surplus military rifles are bought cheap and used. Not rebuilt and custom barreled.

Kind of like buying Greg Lemond's custom built TVT carbon bike from his 1990 Tour. With Campagnolo C Record and Time Equipe pedals. But you are taller than Greg. So you have Craig Calfee fit new carbon tubes onto the bike so it fits you. And you like electronic and Speedplay. So you replace all the parts. Do you really have a Greg Lemond 1990 Tour bike?

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/m1-garand-in-308-win.212352/

[John B.]

Interesting that they bother to re-barrel the old things.

My impression, and I was on the "big-bore rifle team for a short time
was that there was a better solution.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Andre Jute]

We should be real sensitive and make a woke rule that everybody must declare their personal pronoun. We'll draw lots. Short straw explains to the RBT jerks what a pronoun is. -- AJ

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

Nostalgia. Looks, vanity. Reliving youth, the past. America was Great then!!!!!! Something like that.

Many of the 1960s Corvettes sold for $100,000. About the same price as a brand new 2020 Corvette. World of difference in performance.
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/price-trends/Chevrolet-Corvette-d1

[AMuzi]

The Civilian Marksmanship Program (CMP) is the official
outlet for US Government surplus arms.
https://thecmp.org/about/

Looking around a bit I think you're probably right, not sure
now.

[John B.]

Maybe (:-) Heavy, awkward, and the only rifle I ever fired that would
fight back, the famous "M1 Thumb", if you didn't load it "just
right".
--
Cheers,

John B.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

OK. Makes sense the government created a new department to handle selling old military rifles. Gotta keep unemployment low. And they do training and lots of other stuff too. Reasonable. But I find it a little odd that they offer so much custom gunsmithing service. Selling old Army guns. Makes lots of sense. But to rebarrel the rifle. Port it. New trigger? New stock? Glass beading. Etc. Why is the government offering that?

Sort of like the military selling its old junk Humvee vehicles. OK to sell them as junk or projects for the new buyer. After removing the guns and anything else very militaristic. But to sell the old Humvees and offer to rebuild the engine and rebuild the suspension and put a whole new good comfortable interior into the vehicle? Then I would ask are you really selling old military surplus or are you running a custom vehicle/gun shop? There is a difference.

[John B.]

The CMP originated in 1903 when: The Office of the Director of
Civilian Marksmanship (DCM) was created by the U.S. Congress as part
of the 1903 War Department Appropriations Act. The original purpose
was to provide civilians an opportunity to learn and practice
marksmanship skills should they later be called on to serve in the
U.S. military.

They are now described as "a U.S. government-chartered program
intended to promote firearm safety training and rifle practice for all
qualified U.S. citizens with a specific emphasis on youth."

And on their Web Site as "a federally chartered 501(c)(3) corporation"

And:
Section 501(c)(3) is the portion of the US Internal Revenue Code that
allows for federal tax exemption of nonprofit organizations,
specifically those that are considered public charities, private
foundations or private operating foundations. It is regulated and
administered by the US Department of Treasury through the Internal
Revenue Service. There are other 501(c) organizations, indicated by
categories 501(c)(1) – 501(c)(29). This discussion will focus on
501(c)(3).
https://www.501c3.org/what-is-a-501c3/
And now you know (:-)

--
Cheers,

John B.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

OK. They WERE a government established and sponsored program, department. But now are a 501c3 charity. So probably not government funded any more. Maybe they have to buy the old M1 Garands from the military for real cheap and then mark them up a lot. And offer lots of paid services to buyers. So they can fund themselves. And get some charity donations too.

[Tom Kunich]

I'm trying to understand that makes Russell believe his own bullshit. .308 and 30-06 had EXACTLY identical power. The casing is shorter but the taper to the bullet is missing. And the .308 was designed for faster burning powder that developes more energy. But I suppose when you're intent on being stupid nothing can stop you.

[Tom Kunich]

There were no Garands made in .308 or the 7.62 or whatever the NATO round is called. The AR14 was I believe made in that cartridge and was called the AR21. The question is, what does it matter. This is all some dumb ass comments between Frank who craps his pant at the word "gun", John who pretends to be an expert (the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round M2) and Russell who is attempting to look macho by looking up crap he knows nothing about and giving us a John Google message.

The good thing about Biden talking about throwing out the 2nd Amendment is that the entirety of America appreciates the 2nd Amendment save for a few people and every time he talks about it his popularity rating goes even lower. His advisors are so bloated with power they don't even notice it.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

No Tommy. You are wrong again. They are close in power. Yes. But the 30-06 is stronger and faster than the 308 Winchester. Not a lot. But stronger and faster. Click on the link below and compare the 308 Win at the bottom of the first page. And the 30-06 Spring at the top of the second page. If you compare the 150 and 180 grain bullets in each caliber you can clearly see the difference. 150 grain 308 has 2820 fps and 2650 ftlb at muzzle. 150 grain 30-06 has 2910 fps and 2820 ftlb at muzzle. 3% faster and 6% more power for the 30-06 over the 308. 180 grain 308 has 2620 fps and 2745 ftlb at muzzle. 180 grain 30-06 has 2700 fps and 2915 ftlb at muzzle. 3% faster and 6% more power for the 30-06 over the 308.

https://www.ableammo.com/catalog/ammo_charts/powershokcfrifle-chart.html

Tommy boy, do you get a thrill, excited, stimulated, being wrong 100% of the time?

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

There were M1 Garands made in 308 Winchester (7.62x51mm) after the WW2. Andy provided a link to some surplus Italian rifles made in 1952. At the beginning of NATO. NATO adopted the slightly weaker 7.62x51mm cartridge. They wanted to make a NATO compliant gun. And the US Navy after WW2 also made some M1 Garands in 7.62x51mm. But all WW2 USA Army M1 Garands were 30-06.

What you are trying to think of is the AR-10. It was Armalite's first attempt at a NATO bid in 1956. It used the 7.62x51mm NATO round. It was not too successful. But a few years later Eugene Stoner used it as a model for the AR-15 submission to tests. And it became the M16 military rifle.

Apparently Armalite did make a AR-14 in 308 Winchester. 7.62x51mm.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArmaLite
See the Products section of this webpage.

"(the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round M2)"??????
This is kind of funny. Tommy, don't you know the M2 is the 50 caliber John Browning heavy machine gun? But you think the M2 is a .30 pistol? The only pistol cartridges in .30 I am aware of are the 32ACP and the 380ACP. Both semi auto pistol cartridges. Please provide a reference to your Air Force pistol.

> The good thing about Biden talking about throwing out the 2nd Amendment is that the entirety of America appreciates the 2nd Amendment save for a few people and every time he talks about it his popularity rating goes even lower. His advisors are so bloated with power they don't even notice it.

Sadly tonight another mass shooting by a 2nd Amendment believer happened tonight. In Tulsa, Oklahoma at a hospital. Only 4 killed, so not too many I guess.

[John B.]

Old Tommy is getting as weird as Frank. The U.S.A.F. was the first
service to exhibit interest in assault rifles when General Lemay was
shown an AR-15 in 1960. He promptly ordered 80,000 for the Air Force.
but the order was turned down by the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of
Staff, and the Air Force had to wait until sometime in 1965, or
thereabouts before they were issued M-16's.

What Tommy is talking about is the M1 Carbine that was the official
firearm of the Air Force prior to issue of the M-16's.

>> The good thing about Biden talking about throwing out the 2nd Amendment is that the entirety of America appreciates the 2nd Amendment save for a few people and every time he talks about it his popularity rating goes even lower. His advisors are so bloated with power they don't even notice it.
>
>Sadly tonight another mass shooting by a 2nd Amendment believer happened tonight. In Tulsa, Oklahoma at a hospital. Only 4 killed, so not too many I guess.

Who seems, I read in the news, to have shot people and then committed
suicide. And I read about some 18 year old that apparently drove 200
miles to shoot Blacks in Buffalo N.Y.
Forget the guns... you have some very deranged people in the U.S.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

OK. I looked it up and maybe sort of Tommy is not completely wrong as usual.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine#Carbine.2C_Cal_.30.2C_M2

> >> The good thing about Biden talking about throwing out the 2nd Amendment is that the entirety of America appreciates the 2nd Amendment save for a few people and every time he talks about it his popularity rating goes even lower. His advisors are so bloated with power they don't even notice it.
> >
> >Sadly tonight another mass shooting by a 2nd Amendment believer happened tonight. In Tulsa, Oklahoma at a hospital. Only 4 killed, so not too many I guess.
> Who seems, I read in the news, to have shot people and then committed
> suicide. And I read about some 18 year old that apparently drove 200
> miles to shoot Blacks in Buffalo N.Y.
> Forget the guns... you have some very deranged people in the U.S.

Buffalo was two weeks ago. Old news already. We had the Texas school children murders a week ago. And tonight the Oklahoma minor murders. And a lot of other killing all over the USA too in the mean time. John, we can't forget the guns because those are used by the deranged people to kill lots of people. Deranged people trying to beat dozens of people to death with their fists isn't too much of a concern. Its a concern, but no one is too worried about that. I'm just averaged size, but I could fight back more than a little bit. And of course to hear our Tommy boy brag, he is the baddest, most lethal man on earth. No one messes with him. If any deranged person tried to assault him, he would put them down and away.




> --
> Cheers,
>
> John B.

[John B.]

On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 02:31:05 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"

Yes, as I wrote previously, "you have some very deranged people in the
U.S.".

--
Cheers,

John B.

[Rolf Mantel]

NRA: "It takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun"
Texas: "It takes 20 good guys with guns to stop a bad guy"
Oklahoma: "It takes 20 good guys in all schools and hospitals to take
out a bad guy with a gun"

What's the learning? Create millions of highly paid security jobs and
double or triple local taxes to pay for them?

[AMuzi]

We're a large diverse nation. We have one of everything.

[Sepp Ruf]

Rolf Mantel wrote:

> NRA: "It takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun"
> Texas: "It takes 20 good guys with guns to stop a bad guy"
> Oklahoma: "It takes 20 good guys in all schools and hospitals to take
> out a bad guy with a gun"
>
> What's the learning?

damnatio memoriae -- Stop making a shooter famous.

And until morale improves, feed the sharks: Consider dropping twenty
all hat, no cattle cops in the Gulf instead of ever paying them lavish
retirements.

[Tom Kunich]

This of course stems from the intense ignorance of people that are gun protagonists. Russel finds an M1C and then tells us that there isn't an M1B. What sort of mind is that?

John with his intense skill at Google is telling us that what I shot as an M2 was referred by him as an M1 carbine. Now a gun that fires a totally different round, a pistol round in fact, is going to be called the same thing as a million unit production weapon for the entre war in Europe?

Someone there tells us that a gun made is Italy with a different round is a Garand M1. Again, what sort of mind is that?

My wild idea tell me that Russell is a moron if he believes that a newer .308 isn;t both faster and more accurate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.308_Winchester#/media/File:30calCOMPAREdropMOA.png Exactly why would I even need to refer to anything?

According to FBI statistics files, more people are killed with hands, elbows and feet than with rifles. And yet Frank is shitting his pants over a rifle that has a heat shroud on it. More people are killed with knives and other sharp objects than with rifles, but because a couple of singular events that appear to be purposely staged to force gun control onto the American people you are being threatened with the lack of self defence. Staged? Why weren't the police allowed to enter as their training indicates? The BASIC training of a cop is to run toward gun fire. Why were they prevented?

Do you want to know what is causing gun crimes? Just listen to Dick Durban Gun Control Afficianado in Congress outlining why we should have gun control - In Chicago there was a rolling gun battle between two cars with an unknown number of occupants, 68 shots were fired with TWO of them .223 or from a rifle. They caught one of the perpetrators. The DA charged him with - A MISDEMEANOR! Chicago has the strongest gun control in the nation and they won't even enforce it.

Rolf I have hunted since being old enough to hold a gun on target. Guns are indeed dangerous - I think I said that I hunted deer with a .22 LR but looking in my old ammo supply, it was a .22 Magnum which is a slightly longer cartridge. EVERY game animal in the US including Grizzly bears and Bison have been killed with a .22, The Magnum is simply a little more accurate because it has less drop at 100 yards.We hunted dear from a "blind" which is a stand which would overlook game trails. It had to be far enough away from the trails that the prey can't smell you or be overly disturbed by the sound of your breathing. Humans are very noisy creatures.

I have no idea of the gunlaws in Germany these days but being directly adjacent to Russia it would pay to adopt laws like Swithzerland that has never been invaded for a reason.

[AMuzi]

Miranda Devine, a sharp immigrant to USA, sees it like this:

https://nypost.com/2022/06/01/where-are-the-men-of-courage-theyre-gone-thanks-to-toxic-masculinity/

[Frank Krygowski]

On 6/2/2022 4:04 AM, John B. wrote:
>
> Forget the guns... you have some very deranged people in the U.S.

If they weren't able to buy rapid fire guns, they'd be far less of a
problem.

Gun fetishists can't admit that.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Tom Kunich]

I am still of the opinion that this was little more than a stagged massacre to give Democrats more power to claim we need gun control. Even the cops on the spot say they were ordered to stand down.

Do you still believe that people died from covid that wouldn't have from the yearly flu?

Do you still not understand that the Democrats took the appearance of a mild illness to commit election fraud and attack thge American economy? Why did Pennsyvania just shut down a 400 year supply of natural gas? What do you suppose this will do to the cost of utilities?

[Frank Krygowski]

Oh, bullshit. There were plenty of killings where cops couldn't or
didn't react in time long before the phrase "toxic masculinity" ever
surfaced. Thanks to American gun culture, killings have been common forever.

The Uvalde police reaction was horribly inappropriate and incompetent.
But there's no way it was caused by fear of reprisal from bystanders.
The parents were begging the cops to rush in.

Andrew, you've complained about the extreme left "never wasting a
crisis." This is the same behavior from Devine.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

On 6/2/2022 10:44 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>
>
> I have no idea of the gunlaws in Germany these days but being directly adjacent to Russia ...

:-) Ah, geography! It's _so_ complicated! :-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

On 6/2/2022 10:24 AM, AMuzi wrote:
>
> We're a large diverse nation. We have one of everything.

We have way more than "one" mass shooting every year.

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting


In fact, we lead the world's developed countries in gun deaths, or in
gun deaths per capita. We're number one!

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2022-us-gun-violence-world-comparison/

(OK, if you include _all_ countries, places like El Salvador still beat
our gun deaths per capita. But hey, we're working hard at catching up!)

--
- Frank Krygowski

[sms]

On 6/2/2022 12:21 AM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:

<snip>

> "(the Air Force only issued the .30 caliber pistol round M2)"??????
> This is kind of funny. Tommy, don't you know the M2 is the 50 caliber John Browning heavy machine gun? But you think the M2 is a .30 pistol? The only pistol cartridges in .30 I am aware of are the 32ACP and the 380ACP. Both semi auto pistol cartridges. Please provide a reference to your Air Force pistol.

Perhaps he's thinking of the Smith & Wesson M2.0 but it's not in that
caliber and it was never issued by the Air Force.

[Tom Kunich]

I am told that ass Scharf believes that M2 refers to a specific weapon and not a model of a weapon There was an M1 machine gun. So why not a Model 2? Why do you suppose that idiot little Jojhn suddenly stopped posting? His Google finally hit the Wikipedia posting that told him what I was talking about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine#Carbine,_Cal_.30,_M2 We always test fired these weapons in semiautomatic since the idea was accuracy and not rapid fire.

The Air Force's job was to protect its aircraft and not to attack an enemy. A large segment of the 600,000 M2 carbies were issued to tha AAF and then the Air Force and the rest were issued to officers while the ground troops carried M1 Garand rifles.

As I've been saying, it is the idiots who know nothing whatsoever about something that continue to post about these things.

What we need more of is Frank who is a gunophobic to tell us more about guns.

[Sepp Ruf]

Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 6/2/2022 10:44 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>
>>
>> I have no idea of the gunlaws in Germany these days but being directly adjacent to Russia ...
>
> :-) Ah, geography! It's _so_ complicated! :-)

It is, especially whenever Poland is involved. Admittedly, though, a
hypersonic missile traveling from Kaliningrad to Berlin does not really
care who's administrating the corridor. ;-)

Cycling in Danzig/Gdansk, 1945:
<https://static.tildacdn.com/tild3337-6633-4064-a330-643365396133/-/resize/1600x/12---ShA-2-0404-03-9.jpg>

[Tom Kunich]

Only someone aqs stupid as Frank doesn't know that Russia is a major sea power and that they own the entire Black sea and that is leading into the Baltic. Frank complains that I don't know geography when he is so ignorant of the world that he doesn't know what "Made In China" means.

Sepp, what does Germany propose to do about passage of hostile Russian warships? Call them names? Germany has turned into a bureaucratic nightmare that is paralyzed by their own system. I suppose that is the natural outcome of all of the great leaders of Germany being eliminated and America protecting them so that none were needed for too long.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

No. In Texas it takes 20 or more good guys to stand outside the school and tackle and handcuff pleading parents while the gunman inside kills 19 kids and 2 teachers.

This is a timeline I found online. It very well could change again the next time the cops or governor talk. Maybe they will announce the evil mainstream media made it all up and everyone is happy in Texas wearing their 6 guns on their hips and parading around with their rifle on their shoulder. Who knows.
https://www.texastribune.org/2022/05/27/uvalde-texas-school-shooting-timeline/

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

John, you are alluding to the Republican talking point, excuse, of mental health. Crazy people. Yes, very believable. But how do you explain that the USA has such a disproportionate number of all the mentally ill people in the world? Why don't other countries have an equal number of mentally ill people? I would think mental illness is kind of widespread around the world. Its an equal opportune striker. American, Italian, Spanish, Mexican, Brazilian, English, German, Japanese, shouldn't they all have about equal mental illness? Within a few percent of each other. Within one standard deviation plus or minus. But none of these other countries report mass killings once per week. Or more often. Why not if they have an equal percentage of deranged mentally ill people? What is the reason? What could possibly be different in the rest of the world? Hmmmmmmm.

[AMuzi]

Mental illness associates with wealth and idleness. And also
with extreme stress, poverty,war etc.

Sociologists and psychologists have been writing on that for
years.

https://ourworldindata.org/mental-health
https://ourworldindata.org/mental-health

[John B.]

But Frank, There was a ten year period when Assault Rifles WERE banned
from sale.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Assault_Weapons_Ban
"The scientific consensus among criminologists and other researchers
is that the ban had little to no effect on overall criminal activity,
firearm deaths, or the lethality of gun crimes."

Your, as the saying goes, thesis is flawed.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Tom Kunich]

Russell is so mentally deranged that he seems to have missed the posting showing that although Mexico has NO GUNS allowed, they have twice the murder rate with guns than the US. This is pretty steady throughout Central America. Brazil is so rife with murders that they simply lie about it.

America doesn't have any higher rates of mental illness, it has much higher rates of diagnosis. But again the pure stupidity of Russell (the "accountant" that cannot accompish simple math) keeps him from actually thinking for one second about what he writes. Also in the US we invent entire catagory of mental illnesses that the rest of the world don't even recognize as an illness. https://borgenproject.org/mental-health-in-brazil/ Here, people like Frank, Scharf, Russell and Flunky would be easily classified as mentally ill simply by their postings on this group. JHohn who has admitted that the only reason that he is here is to argue is borderline. Anyone that would argue that the main weapon of the Air Force during Vietnam was an M1 carbine when it was an M2 carbine has either a very bad memory or has slipped into the realm of imagination.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 6/2/2022 5:21 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 12:39:17 PM UTC-7, Sepp Ruf wrote:
>> Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 6/2/2022 10:44 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have no idea of the gunlaws in Germany these days but being directly adjacent to Russia ...
>>>
>>> :-) Ah, geography! It's _so_ complicated! :-)
>> It is, especially whenever Poland is involved. Admittedly, though, a
>> hypersonic missile traveling from Kaliningrad to Berlin does not really
>> care who's administrating the corridor. ;-)
>>
>> Cycling in Danzig/Gdansk, 1945:
>> <https://static.tildacdn.com/tild3337-6633-4064-a330-643365396133/-/resize/1600x/12---ShA-2-0404-03-9.jpg>
>
> Only someone aqs stupid as Frank doesn't know that Russia is a major sea power and that they own the entire Black sea and that is leading into the Baltic. Frank complains that I don't know geography when he is so ignorant of the world that he doesn't know what "Made In China" means.

Tom Kunich: "... Germany [is] directly adjacent to Russia ..."

And Tom still furiously tries to pretend that's true. :-)


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

On 6/2/2022 6:58 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:

> Here, people like Frank, Scharf, Russell and Flunky would be easily classified as mentally ill simply by their postings on this group.

The Irony Meter just went deeply into its red zone! :-)

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

On 6/2/2022 6:28 PM, AMuzi wrote:
> On 6/2/2022 4:58 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:

>> ...   But how do you

>> explain that the USA has such a disproportionate number of all the
>> mentally ill people in the world?  Why don't other countries have an

>> equal number of mentally ill people? ...

>
> Mental illness associates with wealth and idleness. And also with
> extreme stress, poverty,war etc.
>
> Sociologists and psychologists have been writing on that for years.
>
> https://ourworldindata.org/mental-health
> https://ourworldindata.org/mental-health

Sounds like we're getting back to Income and Wealth Disparity as a topic!

--
- Frank Krygowski

[John B.]

The problem with all this hoop-a-la about the Texas shooting is that
the claims about "You din do that" are all made by people who weren't
there, who are sitting behind a desk with no chances of being shot and
killed.

Now, I have been in situations where there was, or I thought that
there was a very good chance of me getting killed and I can assure you
that the primary thought was, "how can I get out of this without
dying".

And yes I know, you are going to say "Yare but"... cops are supposed
to be brave. But in reality Cops are just people. If you know that
there is an armed shooter in that room and if you push the door open
there is a very good possibility that he will shoot you. Will you be
first to open the door?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

As we said just a few days ago: There were fewer mass shootings during
the time the law was in effect, a clearly significant difference.
Regarding other aspects of gun violence, evaluations differ somewhat
(and we can guess why).

But it's notable that the law merely banned the manufacture and sale of
_new_ rapid fire, combat-style guns. It did nothing about the millions
of such guns already in circulation, fondly cuddled by gun fetishists,
gang bangers and total whackos. IOW, the law temporarily stopped an
actual _increase_ in the supply of those guns and the profits made by
pushing them. It did nothing to actually reduce the supply.

And after the law expired, the supply soared even higher. So did the
number of mass shootings.

Why is that so hard for you to understand?

--
- Frank Krygowski

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

Tommy, your made up M1B is just fantasy. None were ever produced. It is possible the military made models for some purpose, but no production. Here is a quote from Wikipedia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand#Variants
"Most variants of the Garand, save the sniper variants, never saw active duty.[46] The sniper versions were modified to accept scope mounts, and two versions (the M1C, formerly M1E7, and the M1D, formerly M1E8) were produced, although not in significant quantities during World War II."

You seem to think all models, variants, must follow the alphabetical order. A-B-C-D-D-F-G-H-I-J, etc., etc. etc. Usually, sometimes, that is the way it works. But not always.

My name is spelled with two "L"s. Just so you know. I don't find my name very often. But occasionally it shows up. It is usually, almost always, with two "L"s. Rarely, rarely, rarely do I see it with only one "L".

>
> John with his intense skill at Google is telling us that what I shot as an M2 was referred by him as an M1 carbine. Now a gun that fires a totally different round, a pistol round in fact, is going to be called the same thing as a million unit production weapon for the entre war in Europe?
>

You used the term "M2" only when you talked about your Air Force rifle. You did not correctly state it was a M2 Carbine. You left off the most important part of the name. The Carbine. The M2 or M1 or M3 are simply the model numbers. Not the name of the rifle. Carbine is the name of the rifle. Just like the M1 Garand's name was the Garand. M1 was just the model number. Tommy, you have to, must, say the Carbine part of the name for people to know what you are talking about. As I correctly stated, when you say "M2", everyone automatically thinks of the Ma Deuce Browning Machine Gun in 50 caliber. Not the Carbine rifle. Kind of like if you said XLT for a Ford pickup truck. The XLT is just the model. But you really have to say which year and size the truck is. Not just say XLT. You're not a very intelligent person are you Tommy? Do you find it tiring to use your mind to think?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_carbine
The M2 Carbine came in .30 Carbine cartridge. 7.62x33mm. Please note the 30-06 is 7.62x63mm. The 308 Winchester is 7.62x51mm. The .30 Carbine round is a rifle round. Not a pistol round. Even though there have been a very very very small number of pistols to fire it. AutoMag made one. The company famous for making the 44 AutoMag that Clint Eastwood used in the movie. Tommy, please note that just because a few, very very very few, pistols are made for a caliber, does not make it a pistol round. There is one pistol made, or made past tense, that fired the 50 BMG. That does not make the 50 BMG a pistol round. Ha Ha.

Another example. The 45 Colt. Or 45 ACP for automatic used in Colt 1911 pistols. .45" bullet diameter. Pistol round. And a few rifles also fire it too. But the 45-70 Government is also .45" diameter. Its a 45 caliber. But its a rifle round. Big rifle round.

> Someone there tells us that a gun made is Italy with a different round is a Garand M1. Again, what sort of mind is that?

It was. Andy posted a link to it. Italy in 1952 made an M1 Garand to accept the shorter 7.62x51mm 308 Winchester round. They used M1 Garand parts and modified a few things. And they had a useful NATO rifle that accepted the 7.62x51mm cartridge being used by NATO. It was more or less an M1 Garand. But not an official made by and in the USA M1 Garand rifle. Kind of like you can buy a Ford 150 half ton pickup truck with a 3.3L V6, or a 2.7L V6, or a 5L V8 engine. And 5.5', 6.5', and 8' bed lengths. But no matter which options you choose, its still a Ford 150 truck. So the M1 Garand made in Italy in 308 Winchester caliber is still an M1 Garand.

>
> My wild idea tell me that Russell is a moron if he believes that a newer .308 isn;t both faster and more accurate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.308_Winchester#/media/File:30calCOMPAREdropMOA.png Exactly why would I even need to refer to anything?

But Tommy, the bullet chart I provided, clearly showed the 30-06 round is faster than the 308 round. Its a longer casing so has more gunpowder behind it to propel it faster. That is pretty simple science. I would think even you could understand that. But apparently not. I never mentioned accuracy. Is this another one of your attempts to change the subject and imagine what you wished people said?

For accuracy of bullets, cartridges, its a combination of speed, weight, and bullet shape. I do not know which bullet is considered the most accurate on earth. But its not the fastest, or slowest, or lightest, or heaviest. Or rounded or pointy est. Its some kind of combination of everything that makes it most accurate. They all help and hurt each other in accuracy. So you have to tweak everything to get it right for accuracy.

>
> According to FBI statistics files, more people are killed with hands, elbows and feet than with rifles. And yet Frank is shitting his pants over a rifle that has a heat shroud on it. More people are killed with knives and other sharp objects than with rifles, but because a couple of singular events that appear to be purposely staged to force gun control onto the American people you are being threatened with the lack of self defence. Staged? Why weren't the police allowed to enter as their training indicates? The BASIC training of a cop is to run toward gun fire. Why were they prevented?
>

We have already discussed that rifles are pretty far down the list of weapons used to kill people. Hands, fists, feet kill more than rifles. And shotguns too. But not pistols. Not sure where knives fit in the ordering. But Tommy boy, NO MASS KILLINGS, are carried out by hands and feet or knives. Its possible you could kill quite a few with a knife. Pretty quickly. But for some reason, basic logic, no one sets out to mass murder a bunch of people with a knife in their belt. They choose the easily obtainable and good killing rifle instead.

Tommy, did Fox News and Tucker call you up and tell you to say the killing of 19 little children and 2 teachers in Texas was staged? Is that the new Fox talking point? Staged!!!!!! By Democrats and liberals and Black Lives Matter!!!!!! Sounds good. Goes right along with mental health, guards stationed at every school, only one door into a school, video games, pop rock concerts, etc. Everything but the gun is to blame. Sounds good.

As for why didn't the Uvalde, Texas city police and school police force not going into the school while the murderer was killing kids? Good question. I expect we will have lots of speeches by Texas governor about how he is proud and ashamed and proud and ashamed and indifferent and likes and hates his police. Maybe he will say it was the fault of the Democratic governor over in Louisiana. Makes lots of sense. Maybe they were scared and decided to await for the arrival of the border patrol with machine guns and body armor and shields from 50 miles away. Makes sense. Easier to let someone else do your work than you doing it.

> Do you want to know what is causing gun crimes? Just listen to Dick Durban Gun Control Afficianado in Congress outlining why we should have gun control - In Chicago there was a rolling gun battle between two cars with an unknown number of occupants, 68 shots were fired with TWO of them .223 or from a rifle. They caught one of the perpetrators. The DA charged him with - A MISDEMEANOR! Chicago has the strongest gun control in the nation and they won't even enforce it.
>

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/murder-map-deadliest-u-s-cities/39/
Chicago is #28 out of the top 65 cities with greater than 100K population. 2019. Despite perceptions, Chicago isn't too bad, comparatively. Many are far worse. And no one talks about them at all.
Top ten were:
St. Louis, MO
Baltimore, MD
Birmingham, AL
Detroit, MI
Dayton, OH
Baton Rouge, LA
New Orleans, LA
Kansas City, MO
Memphis, TN
Cleveland, OH
Of the above list, only Michigan and Louisiana have Democrat governors. All the other murder capitals of the USA have Republican governors.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/16/upshot/murder-crime-trends-chicago.html
Another good article on murders in Chicago and New York. Not nearly as deadly as people think. Many other cities are far worse. But no one ever mentions them.

> Rolf I have hunted since being old enough to hold a gun on target. Guns are indeed dangerous - I think I said that I hunted deer with a .22 LR but looking in my old ammo supply, it was a .22 Magnum which is a slightly longer cartridge. EVERY game animal in the US including Grizzly bears and Bison have been killed with a .22, The Magnum is simply a little more accurate because it has less drop at 100 yards.We hunted dear from a "blind" which is a stand which would overlook game trails. It had to be far enough away from the trails that the prey can't smell you or be overly disturbed by the sound of your breathing. Humans are very noisy creatures.
>
> I have no idea of the gunlaws in Germany these days but being directly adjacent to Russia it would pay to adopt laws like Swithzerland that has never been invaded for a reason.

Switzerland has never been invaded because geographically it is pretty sealed off. The Alps kind of go in the center and south of the country. All the way over to the French side from the Austrian/Italian side. The Dolomites are to the south in Italy. And even southern Germany around Munich, or south of Munich, is mountainous. Disney's Neuschwanstein castle is located down there. Its impossible to get an army into Switzerland. And there really isn't much in Switzerland for an invading army or country to want either. It has some farmland in the north central part. So over a few years you could get money from that. There are no navigable rivers in Switzerland. So no benefit to trade. Its mostly mountains. You could open up mining operations I guess. And the new touristy skiing phenomenon is very recent. So that was not a money maker long ago. Switzerland is prosperous today. But its due to the people and government. Not anything a conquering army could plunder. So why waste money, men, time invading it for no gain?

[AMuzi]

Calling a small caliber lightweight semi an 'assault rifle'
doesn't make it so.

'Assault rifles' began in 1944/45:

https://www.19fortyfive.com/2021/04/sturmgewehr-the-stg44-was-the-first-assault-rifle/

But were effectively banned in USA since 1934:
https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/national-firearms-act

moreso in 1968.

[AMuzi]

On 6/2/2022 6:14 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 6/2/2022 6:28 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 6/2/2022 4:58 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:

>>> ... Â But how do you

>>> explain that the USA has such a disproportionate number

>>> of all the mentally ill people in the world? Why don't

>>> other countries have an equal number of mentally ill

>>> people? ...

>>
>> Mental illness associates with wealth and idleness. And
>> also with extreme stress, poverty,war etc.
>>
>> Sociologists and psychologists have been writing on that
>> for years.
>>
>> https://ourworldindata.org/mental-health
>> https://ourworldindata.org/mental-health
>
> Sounds like we're getting back to Income and Wealth
> Disparity as a topic!
>

Do a mental illness assessment in DPRK and let us know how
that turns out. Equal poverty sucks. Freedom to achieve
makes everyone in the society richer (in more than monetary
terms).

[AMuzi]

Todd Beamer, "Let's roll."

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 10:40:13 AM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 8:19:05 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
> > On 6/2/2022 9:38 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
> > > Rolf Mantel wrote:
> > >
> > >> NRA: "It takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy
> > >> with a gun"
> > >> Texas: "It takes 20 good guys with guns to stop a bad guy"
> > >> Oklahoma: "It takes 20 good guys in all schools and
> > >> hospitals to take
> > >> out a bad guy with a gun"
> > >>
> > >> What's the learning?
> > >
> > > damnatio memoriae -- Stop making a shooter famous.
> > >
> > > And until morale improves, feed the sharks: Consider
> > > dropping twenty all hat, no cattle cops in the Gulf instead
> > > of ever paying them lavish retirements.
> > Miranda Devine, a sharp immigrant to USA, sees it like this:
> >
> > https://nypost.com/2022/06/01/where-are-the-men-of-courage-theyre-gone-thanks-to-toxic-masculinity/
> > --
> > Andrew Muzi
> > <www.yellowjersey.org/>
> > Open every day since 1 April, 1971
> I am still of the opinion that this was little more than a stagged massacre to give Democrats more power to claim we need gun control. Even the cops on the spot say they were ordered to stand down.
>

Did Tucker and Laura and Qanon just send you some emails to say this? Its pretty much a copy of the Republicans saying it was Democrats dressed up as Trump supporters that stormed the Capital on January 6. I guess they like to reuse the same excuse over and over again. But they need to think up a new explanation. Just to keep their audience interested.

As for the cops not going in and standing down. Several different police chiefs involved. City police chief. School District police chief. Maybe even the National Guard or Border Patrol chiefs were involved too. So no one wanted to take charge in a bad situation if someone else could be blamed or assume responsibility. And none of the ones on the scene were motivated or forced to do anything. So no one acted. Easier to stand around. Especially when their is a murderer with a rifle inside the building. So time went by. Eventually the Border Patrol showed up with heavy duty gear. Lot more safety with heavy duty gear. And then they acted. After getting the Principal to unlock the door. And the shooter was killed, eventually. Lot of mistakes and errors were made. Maybe a lot of extra people died because of it.

> Do you still believe that people died from covid that wouldn't have from the yearly flu?

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html
Go down to Figure 2 on this link. It shows the deaths, hospitalizations, illnesses from flu each year.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
No yearly deaths. But go down to the table titled "Total Coronavirus Deaths in the United States" And it has a gold line showing the total death count for Covid. From 2/29/2020 to 6/1/2022. 1,032,646 dead total. Seems to me we are killing a whole lot more with Covid than with flu. But you believe what you want to believe Tommy.

>
> Do you still not understand that the Democrats took the appearance of a mild illness to commit election fraud and attack thge American economy? Why did Pennsyvania just shut down a 400 year supply of natural gas? What do you suppose this will do to the cost of utilities?

Mild illness? Over 1 million dead now. How many would need to die for you to consider it a major illness?

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

Thanks Frank. I missed that easy one responding to our Tommy boy.

[sms]

Well if Russia invades and takes over Poland then Germany would be
adjacent to Russia.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

Tommy, some model numbers become the gun itself after awhile. Such as the M1 is the M1 Garand. If you say M1, you are talking about the M1 Garand. And the M2 is the Browning M2 BMG. 50 caliber heavy machine gun. Still used today. Invented 1918. M2 means the Browning. No matter what other M1s or M2s are out there in the military, M1 means Garand. M2 means Browning.

Kind of sort of like if you say Ferrari. You mean the Testarossa or the 308. Testarossa from the second half of Miami Vice. Or the 308 from Magnum PI. There are of course lots of other Ferraris. But those are the two that come to mind when you say Ferrari. Or Lamborghini. You always mean the Countach when you say Lamborghini. Even though Lamborghini made lots of other models too. But the only famous one is the Lamborghini Countach.

[AMuzi]

Besides 800,000 dead mostly by machete in Rwanda,

https://nypost.com/2017/06/11/the-pink-knife-one-of-the-london-attackers-used-for-slashings/

Oh, and you forgot trucks. Our old friend was cycling just
inches ahead of the dead riders on this bike path:
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Eight+people+killed+in+New+York+attack%3b+truck+ploughs+into+cyclists.-a0512582587

Being a Federal eyewitness in a terrorism case is daunting,
disruptive and goes on for a very long time.

possibly a copycat jihadi operation:
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/2016-nice-terrorist-attacks

84 dead is not Rwanda but it's not nothing either.

Serious mass murders go for bombs anyway:
https://www.britannica.com/event/London-bombings-of-2005

https://www.britannica.com/event/Madrid-train-bombings-of-2004

examples abound. And not a handful per incident either.

[John B.]

On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 14:58:39 -0700 (PDT), "russell...@yahoo.com"

Nope, I have no interest in U.S. Democratic or Republican politics. I
was merely reviewing what I read on the U.S. news outlets. A 18 year
old, high school drop out buys two assault type of rifles. I look at
one site and these things sell for about $1,500 each? Spend $3,000
(where did he get the money) to shoot people? There are much cheaper
ways to do things. Another guy hops in his car (I guess) and drives
200 miles to shoot Niggers? A 2? 2-1/2? hour drive to shoot someone?
Another guy, in Tulsa, shoots a doctor because his back pain?

You write, " But how do you explain that the USA has such a

disproportionate number of all the mentally ill people in the world?
Why don't other countries have an equal number of mentally ill
people?"

I can't explain it, which is why I made the original comment that "you

have some very deranged people in the U.S.".

But, "The gun made me do it" is simply a delusion in itself, after all
there appear to be at least 133 million people in the U.S. that have
access to firearms, and how many shoot someone? I don't have up to the
minute data but the FBI reports 10,258 gun murders in 2019, that is,
apparently, some 0.0076% of those who had access to guns used this to
murder someone.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 4:21:15 PM UTC-5, cycl...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Thursday, June 2, 2022 at 12:39:17 PM UTC-7, Sepp Ruf wrote:
> > Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > > On 6/2/2022 10:44 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I have no idea of the gunlaws in Germany these days but being directly adjacent to Russia ...
> > >
> > > :-) Ah, geography! It's _so_ complicated! :-)
> > It is, especially whenever Poland is involved. Admittedly, though, a
> > hypersonic missile traveling from Kaliningrad to Berlin does not really
> > care who's administrating the corridor. ;-)
> >
> > Cycling in Danzig/Gdansk, 1945:
> > <https://static.tildacdn.com/tild3337-6633-4064-a330-643365396133/-/resize/1600x/12---ShA-2-0404-03-9.jpg>
> Only someone aqs stupid as Frank doesn't know that Russia is a major sea power and that they own the entire Black sea and that is leading into the Baltic. Frank complains that I don't know geography when he is so ignorant of the world that he doesn't know what "Made In China" means.
>

Tommy is confused again. Russia isn't really much of a sea power. They have very few ports that do not freeze over in the winter. The ones on the east over by North Korea are too far away from everything to be too valuable. And the weather isn't all that great over there in the winter. The ones on the north by Norway are on the Barents Sea and real close to the Arctic Ocean. They freeze over in the winter. Russia does have some ports on the Black Sea. Year round ports. And they stole Crimea from Ukraine in 2014 to give them more presence in the Black Sea. But Turkey is the dominant country in the Black Sea. Especially because the Black Sea has to go through Turkey to get out to the Mediterranean. Right by Greece.

Now as for the Baltic. Poor confused, stupid Tommy. The Baltic countries are Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania. They are way up north by Finland, Sweden, Poland, and Kaliningrad. Kaliningrad is the exclave that is part of Russia and has a port on the Baltic Sea. The Black Sea has no connection whatsoever to the Baltic Sea. To get from the Black Sea down south to the Baltic Sea up north. You would have to go through the Bosphorus and Istanbul (formerly Constantinople) and then through the Dardanelles and out into the Mediterranean by Greece. Then go way easy by Italy and Morocco and northern Africa until you get to the Rock of Gibraltar and go out into the Atlantic Ocean. Then go north by Portugal and France until you get into the English Channel. Keep going north until you hit the North Sea and Denmark. Then go into the Baltic Sea by going by Denmark, Germany, Norway, Sweden.

Tommy, you have proven once again that you do not know geography. I wonder how you even manage to get back to your own house after bike rides. Do the police on your side of the Bay just know that whenever they see you, to just pick you up and haul you home. Otherwise your wife, ex-wife, estranged wife, girlfriend, whatever you have, who knows, would file a missing person report every single day.

> Sepp, what does Germany propose to do about passage of hostile Russian warships? Call them names? Germany has turned into a bureaucratic nightmare that is paralyzed by their own system. I suppose that is the natural outcome of all of the great leaders of Germany being eliminated and America protecting them so that none were needed for too long.

I suspect Germany will allow Russian flagged ships to pass peacefully by their coast or outside their territorial waters. Sweden and Denmark own the islands and narrow passageways between the North Sea and the Baltic Sea. Russian ships would have to sail into their territorial waters to get out of the Baltic Sea. If everyone is at peace, then I see no reason for these countries to fire upon the Russian ships. If NATO and Russia officially go to military war, then things might change a bit. But hopefully that will not happen.

[John B.]

On Thu, 02 Jun 2022 19:35:27 -0500, AMuzi <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote:

>On 6/2/2022 6:14 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>> On 6/2/2022 6:28 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>> On 6/2/2022 4:58 PM, russell...@yahoo.com wrote:

>>>> ... Ā But how do you

>>>> explain that the USA has such a disproportionate number

>>>> of all the mentally ill people in the world?Ā Why don't

>>>> other countries have an equal number of mentally ill

>>>> people?Ā ...

>>>
>>> Mental illness associates with wealth and idleness. And
>>> also with extreme stress, poverty,war etc.
>>>
>>> Sociologists and psychologists have been writing on that
>>> for years.
>>>
>>> https://ourworldindata.org/mental-health
>>> https://ourworldindata.org/mental-health
>>
>> Sounds like we're getting back to Income and Wealth
>> Disparity as a topic!
>>
>
>Do a mental illness assessment in DPRK and let us know how
>that turns out. Equal poverty sucks. Freedom to achieve
>makes everyone in the society richer (in more than monetary
>terms).

Well Jeff Bezos employs, and thus might be termed to support, some 1,1
million in the U.S. and 1.6 world wide. I read that there, at the
moment, some 5.9 million unemployed in the U.S. so if Amazon closes
the doors the unemployment rate goes up ~20%.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[ritzann...@gmail.com]

Yes. Mental illness is widespread in the world. And is associated with everything probably. But my point was that mental illness combined with easy access to guns, leads to killings. Lots of other countries in the world have an equal mental health problem as the USA. But no, or few, mass murders because their mentally ill people do not have easy access to guns. Kind of like if you don't want people to get fat, don't give them any food to eat. Starving people aren't fat.