Idiot Manufacturers

[Tom Kunich]

I can buy a new 12 speed Campy Chorus group than I can an older used 10 speed Record mini-group.

The particular insanity of this is that the new 12 speed groups have a rear derailleur that can shift up to a 34 tooth cassette while the 10 speed Record limits you to a 28 tooth or shoehorned in 29 tooth.

Now I'll be the first to say that Campy has really improved their manual shifters. But I HATE having to spend all of my time in the hills shifting through gears that give you no advantage on a climb and are too slow on a fast descent to pedal unless you're running a 53 and even then you have to really spin on most descents.

One of the advantages I had with the Di2 11 speed on two of my bikes is that I would program the levers to work the way I wanted them to work.

The outside or bottom or large levers I programmed to shift to a "faster" gear. On the right side that means dropping down a cog. On the left side that meant shifting into the big ring. It was a hell of a lot easier to remember that way since the inside/smaller lever was a little difficult to work with my large hands.

Which brings me to the point: I am considering changing the Di2 on the Lemond Zurich which is external, over to the Merlin. Then maybe I can do the same with the Colnago Di2.

One of the items I've been trying to sell is an external battery holder. The only extra things I would have to buy is an external battery and a bottom bracket wire harness. Everything else is interchangeable.

Then I could put the Campy gear on those bikes and they would sell cheaper so hopefully more readily. Lord knows that nothing is moving at all right now with the Biden economy just plugging along like Obama x -4.

I would say more about that demented idiot but he said everyone that could be said when comparing cleaning the election rolls to the civil war where over 660,000 union soldiers died to end slavery.

[Tom Kunich]

I've decided that since it is cheaper to switch to a Campy 12 speed than try to support my 10 speed stuff, that I will go that way. I have at least one guy interested in one of my for sale bikes. If that goes, the Merlin goes 12 speed Chorus.

[Tom Kunich]

Here I am meaning to price out the necessary Campy 12 speed parts (Chorus levers and Centaur derailleurs and a 12 speed cassette) and Amazon is off the air. This seems to happen rather regularly. I wonder why that is. Especially during working hours.

[AMuzi]

Nope.
CHR Ergo-12 with CHR or REC or SREC changers, not 11 speed
CEN changers.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[Tom Kunich]

With Amazon not working I can't look anything up.

[AMuzi]

www.campagnolo.com

[Frank Krygowski]

I don't think more churning is going to solve your problems.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Tom Kunich]

Tell me Frank, how many upper end bicycle do you own? Don't be afraid of telling us for fear that you'll be laughed at since you seem to think that you're a bicycle mechanic because you can fix your 6 speed freewheel touring bike.

[Tom Kunich]

Since you cannot buy their products off of that site and if you use their dealer networks you are hideously overcharged I don't use their website. Case in point: Asking a local Campy dealer how much Chorus levers would cost I got a quote of $637. The Amazon UK site is presently running and the cost of Super Record levers there is about that price. On the American Amazon I believe that the Chorus was $250 or so. With free shipping mind you.

[John B.]

"Upper end"??

And here you've been regaling us with tales about how you buy second
hand stuff cheap on ebay or other second hand sources?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

I don't churn. I don't have your problems.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Frank Krygowski]

<sigh> "I can't look anything up."

The website Andrew cited offers free information, direct from the
manufacturer.

You seem compulsively dedicated to maintaining your own ignorance.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Fri, 16 Jul 2021 11:55:20 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>With Amazon not working I can't look anything up.

Amazon not working?
<https://status.aws.amazon.com>
No sign of massive user complaints:
<https://downdetector.com/status/amazon/>

Maybe just search Amazon for Campagnolo stuff?
<https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Campagnolo&s=price-desc-rank>


--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[Tom Kunich]

And you seem dedicated to shooting your mouth off about absolutely anything and then when you are proven wrong you simply misrepresent what was said. Or perhaps you simply do not understand the English language.

[Tom Kunich]

On Saturday, July 17, 2021 at 10:46:35 AM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Jul 2021 11:55:20 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >With Amazon not working I can't look anything up.
> Amazon not working?
> <https://status.aws.amazon.com>
> No sign of massive user complaints:
> <https://downdetector.com/status/amazon/>
>
> Maybe just search Amazon for Campagnolo stuff?
> <https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Campagnolo&s=price-desc-rank>

So let me get you straight. After Amazon is off of the air for over 16 hours, you're "proving me wrong" because they are back on the air? There is really something wrong with you and it isn't getting any better.

[pH]

Hi Tom.
One thing I've noticed (and liked) about bicyclists is how they tend to be more individualistic than
your average bear. It *does* lead to lots of strong opinions,
of course.

But: I *love* my 6-speed freewheel touring bike with barcon
shifters, et. al.

I also love my old Morris Minor and keep it postitive earth
even though I get told all the time to make it negative--kind
of like the people who think I should convert from 27" to 700C
(that fad).

pH in Aptos

[Frank Krygowski]

I didn't misrepresent what was said. I quoted it. It's there in the
thread. Anybody can see it.

Tom, if you don't like what you said, you're free to say so. "Oops" or
"My mistake" or similar words will do.

It's so much classier than spewing more insults and deflections.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sat, 17 Jul 2021 11:49:34 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich

<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, July 17, 2021 at 10:46:35 AM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Fri, 16 Jul 2021 11:55:20 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >With Amazon not working I can't look anything up.

>> Amazon not working?
>> <https://status.aws.amazon.com>
>> No sign of massive user complaints:
>> <https://downdetector.com/status/amazon/>
>>
>> Maybe just search Amazon for Campagnolo stuff?
>> <https://www.amazon.com/s?k=Campagnolo&s=price-desc-rank>

>So let me get you straight. After Amazon is off of the air for over 16 hours, you're "proving me wrong" because they are back on the air?

The correct term is "back online" not "back on the air".

What I was demonstrating was:
1. Amazon was fully functional as of Saturday 10:46AM.
2. Amazon had no complaints of being offline for the previous 24 hrs.
3. Amazon has not had any reported outages for the month of July
2021:
<https://downdetector.com/archive/>
I use Downdetector quite often for determining is there is a problem.
I also use various "internet weather" sites to check on the ISP's. For
example:
<http://www.internettrafficreport.com/namerica.htm>
4. If Amazon were down for 16 hrs, I'm sure the media would have
reported the incident. The loss in revenue to Amazon would have been
substantial and quite newsworthy.

None of the aforementioned show any evidence of Amazon having been
recently offline. Therefore, I would conclude that either you
experienced a local outage (unlikely), experienced an Amazon specific
routing failure at your ISP (also unlikely), or you screwed up somehow
using your computah (highly probable).

I hate to mention the obvious, but troubleshooting is not your forte.

>There is really something wrong with you and it isn't getting any better.

True. I'm wasting my time keeping you entertained and should be doing
something useful.

[Tom Kunich]

Well I agree with you. I have a touring bike sitting in the back yard under cover with an 8 speed XT setup but bar-end shifters. I don't use it anymore but it is available. The last time I went from here down to Aptos and back the next day, everyone was so burned out that they couldn't ride for a week. We stayed at the motel at the overpass. Everyone had to race up to the grocery store up on (Summit?) and then they were all dead after that. I had some sort of problem, and pulled over to the side of the road and all 15 of them rode away. Without any sort term memory I had to ride over to El Camino and go north to Palo Alto. They had stopped at a cafe and had food and drink while I was taking the long way. We finally met up at the Town and Country mall and continued across the Dumbarton Bridge where most of them had rides waiting for them. Three others and I rode back to San Leandro and two of those were so burned out that they didn't know where they were. But since I was riding one of my road bikes I was tired but OK. Though I would have been better if I had been able to stop at that cafe.

[Tom Kunich]

Yes, I understand Frank. You do not read the English language well and don't know what quotation marks mean. That is besides the fact that you prefer to act stupid rather than to understand what is being said.

[sms]

On 7/17/2021 2:54 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

<snip>

> 1. Amazon was fully functional as of Saturday 10:46AM.
> 2. Amazon had no complaints of being offline for the previous 24 hrs.
> 3. Amazon has not had any reported outages for the month of July
> 2021:

Obviously San Leandro has a different Amazon than Boulder Creek.

[Tom Kunich]

Jeff, do you know how to find out when I posted that message? Please do not tell me that Amazon wasn't down when it clearly was. I tested it every 15 minutes for at least 12 hours and it had been down before I started and until after I went to bed. Your pretense that this was NEWS NEWS NEWS seems to miss the point that this happens regularly. For all I know it is scheduled.

[Tom Kunich]

How many purchases did you make from Amazon on Friday?

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 18 Jul 2021 08:00:04 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Jeff, do you know how to find out when I posted that message?

Yes I know everything. You have only to ask. From the message
header:
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2021 11:55:20 -0700 (PDT)
Your original announcement is at:
<https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/6vYL7JsVilE/m/9b_ErJ_vAQAJ>

>Please do not tell me that Amazon wasn't down when it clearly was.

Ok, I won't tell you. I'll simply point out that the Amazon status
report, status logs, and crowd sourced DownDetector history shows
clearly that Amazon was not down.

>I tested it every 15 minutes for at least 12 hours and it had been down before I started and until after I went to bed. Your pretense that this was NEWS NEWS NEWS seems to miss the point that this happens regularly. For all I know it is scheduled.

I'm not impressed with your troubleshooting skills. You did the same
thing over and over and over for 12 hrs and expected different
results. That doesn't work. I rarely rely on a single tool to do
troubleshooting. That also applies to bicycles, where I measure
things twice using two different measuring tools. Same with
troubleshooting web services and site. There are plenty of tools
available to help isolate problems. I have seen individual sites
disappear due to DDoS attacks, router misconfiguration, trashed BGP
tables, and load balancing anomalies. You can also have problems on
your own computer that will block a single site. For example, your
browser could have been attact by malware which uses a DNS redirector
to send all DNS lookups to the malware site instead of the real DNS
site. In extreme cases, malware might have added a few lines to your
hosts file sending any Amazon web page lookup into a black hole.

One thing I know for sure. There was nobody else complaining about
Amazon being down. Even a few minutes downtime on a major site would
get the attention of the internet news services. For example, on June
25, 2021 Amazon had a 1 hr outage that immediately appeared on
DownDetector with 6,200 complaints:
<https://www.reuters.com/technology/amazon-services-down-multiple-users-downdetector-2021-06-24/>
When you see a major internet site go down, you won't be alone.

Anyway, I suggest you do a better job of troubleshooting and
verification BEFORE you accuse someone of ruining your internet
shopping experience.

"How to check if a website is down"?
<https://www.google.com/search?q=how+to+check+if+a+website+is+down>

[sms]

On 7/18/2021 12:01 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:

<snip>

> Ok, I won't tell you. I'll simply point out that the Amazon status
> report, status logs, and crowd sourced DownDetector history shows
> clearly that Amazon was not down.

Some people don't understand that problems with their ISP≠problems with
Amazon (or problems with their computer≠problems with Amazon).

As you stated, Amazon was not down.

Jeff, you may have to travel to San Leandro to troubleshoot Tom's
computer or network.

[Tom Kunich]

On Sunday, July 18, 2021 at 12:01:52 PM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sun, 18 Jul 2021 08:00:04 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Jeff, do you know how to find out when I posted that message?
> Yes I know everything. You have only to ask. From the message
> header:
> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2021 11:55:20 -0700 (PDT)
> Your original announcement is at:
> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/6vYL7JsVilE/m/9b_ErJ_vAQAJ>
> >Please do not tell me that Amazon wasn't down when it clearly was.
> Ok, I won't tell you. I'll simply point out that the Amazon status
> report, status logs, and crowd sourced DownDetector history shows
> clearly that Amazon was not down.

Then WHY did you show the status of Saturday and not Friday?

[Tom Kunich]

Tell everyone here what my ISP is so that you can prove that you know anything about any of this.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 18 Jul 2021 14:38:49 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich

<cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, July 18, 2021 at 12:01:52 PM UTC-7, jeff.li...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Sun, 18 Jul 2021 08:00:04 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich
>> <cycl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Jeff, do you know how to find out when I posted that message?
>> Yes I know everything. You have only to ask. From the message
>> header:
>> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2021 11:55:20 -0700 (PDT)
>> Your original announcement is at:
>> <https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/6vYL7JsVilE/m/9b_ErJ_vAQAJ>
>> >Please do not tell me that Amazon wasn't down when it clearly was.
>> Ok, I won't tell you. I'll simply point out that the Amazon status
>> report, status logs, and crowd sourced DownDetector history shows
>> clearly that Amazon was not down.

>Then WHY did you show the status of Saturday and not Friday?

You're welcome. I guess it's more important to blame someone (Amazon,
the internet, Biden, various manufacturers, me, etc) than to determine
what actually happened. Please note that just because I try to help
you solve YOUR problem doesn't magically make it my problem. It's
still your problem for you to solve and I'm just here to help.

Hint: If you understand how things work, you can fix many things.

I didn't know when you had the problem, only when you posted your
accusation. I read you posting on Friday but didn't have time to
reply until Saturday. To cover the time span, I posted a link to the
Downdetector 48 hr outage history:
<https://downdetector.com/archive/>
When you looked at it on Saturday, it should have shown all reported
outages for Friday and Saturday. There were none shown for Amazon.

Link to a better Amazon outage history:
<https://downdetector.com/status/amazon/archive/>
Note that the list only include when the Amazon outage started, not
when it ended. That's because restoration of service is often in
stages, which includes partial restorations. Users also like to
complain that something is down long after service has been restored.

Is there anything else you would like to accuse me of doing to insure
that you look like a victim instead of a perpetrator, accomplice, or
enabler?

[Tom Kunich]

Is there anything else you would like to accuse me of since my ISP is AT&T and they had NO SERVICE all day Friday? The very FACT that they have an entire page to report outages shows that it occurs. Tell me, exactly why would I make that up? Oh, that's right, as some horses ass you're willing to believe absolutely anything. I suppose that is the cost of commenting on a bicycle tech group with people that know nothing about bicycles but want to act as if they did.

Tell you what you overwhelming piece of shit https://downdetector.com/insights/cloudflare-outage-takes-out-internet/ says that AT&T was out. So what does the shit in your mouth have to say about that?

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Sun, 18 Jul 2021 15:48:14 -0700 (PDT), Tom Kunich

No, not really. You did the difficult part by accusing Amazon of
being down and not bothering to mention that you had no internet
access of any kind. Knowing that you had no internet access would
have presented a very different picture.

>The very FACT that they have an entire page to report outages shows that it occurs.

Well, you did a truly impressive job of troubleshooting your problem,
such as pounding on the Amazon web site every 15 minutes for 12 hours
to see if they returned from the dead. I probably would have found
the problem on one of the internet weather sites, but since I was a
day late, that didn't happen. Like I said, you were more interested
in assigning the blame than fixing the problem.

>Tell me, exactly why would I make that up?

That's easy. You continued to blame Amazon so that you would have
someone to blame for your misfortunes. All you mentioned was that
Amazon was down. Only after you read about the Cloudflare outage and
discover that it wasn't Amazon's fault. You really can't fix a
problem without first assigning the blame. I don't recall any problem
that you posted for "help" in RBT that wasn't preceded by blaming
someone or some company and followed by nearly zero useful information
where someone else might deduce the cause and offer a solution. That's
another "why would I make it up"? problem. You want the credit for
solving the problem. By withholding all subsequent information, you
effectively guarantee that the problem can be solvable only by you.
Kinda like not mentioning that you had lost all internet connectivity.
I also recall the bottom bracket and cable routing problems, where you
offered a continuous deluge of opinions and speculation, but no
measurements, no photos, no specifics, and no numbers. People were
throwing numbers your direction in an effort to determine what you
were working with and you never even bothered to compare them with
your parts. So there you have it. You fabricated a crisis so that
you would get plenty of attention and so that only you had enough
information available to solve the problem. The bit about asking SMS
for the name of your ISP was proof that you weren't going to hand
anyone enough information to figure out YOUR problem.

>Oh, that's right, as some horses ass you're willing to believe absolutely anything. I suppose that is the cost of commenting on a bicycle tech group with people that know nothing about bicycles but want to act as if they did.

I should mention that making it up also gives you the opportunity to
insult people who are trying to help. Somehow, I suspect that might
be counterproductive.

>Tell you what you overwhelming piece of shit https://downdetector.com/insights/cloudflare-outage-takes-out-internet/ says that AT&T was out. So what does the shit in your mouth have to say about that?

Congratulations. You found the problem and likely culprit. Nicely
done. However, you did it by using information which only you
possessed (that your internet was down and not just Amazon) and you
finally realized that you had to solve the problem yourself.

Incidentally, thank you for including a link to the Cloudflare press
release. I think that might be a first.

[Jeff Liebermann]

Also see:
<https://www.att.com/outages/>
for AT&T outage information. Nothing showing for your zip code. No
history, which is typical of companies that don't like bad news to
linger.

Oddly, there's no mention of a Cloudflare outage on the Downdetector
site:
<https://downdetector.com/status/cloudflare/archive/>
I guess few individual users have any reason to contact Cloudflare
directly. Well, maybe users of their DNS service, which seem to
account for 83% of their recent complaints.

Looks like everything at Cloudflare is now up and running:
<https://www.cloudflarestatus.com>
Oh-oh. Maybe I spoke too soon. Something just happening in parts of
Africa and Middle East, where the status page shows a bunch of systems
are being re-routed.

You can also get some status and history at:
<https://www.cloudflarestatus.com/history.atom>
RSS feed software required.
Grumble. RSS only shows incidents on and before Jul 15, 21:16 UTC. I
guess I'll have to wait a day for Friday's (July 16) problem log.

Incidentally, welcome to my world.