Shimano Recalls 1 Million Cranks
DSL
If you have an Altus, Acera or Alivio Crank made after 1993, get it
replaced. It's been recalled by Shimano because it breaks.
Wayne A. Rugenstein
Thanks for letting us know about that Troy, I have an Alivio set on my
wife's bike.
Roogie
--
Kansas City P&D driver, American Freightways, Inc.
Home Page: http://www.sky.net/~jsracer/welcome.html
PWC Page: http://www.sky.net/~jsracer/pwc.html
Patrick Rusk
DSL wrote:
>
> If you have an Altus, Acera or Alivio Crank made after 1993, get it
> replaced. It's been recalled by Shimano because it breaks.
>
> http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml97/97149.html
I got a postcard in the mail today from the LBS I bought my bike from
about this. I thought I'd be able to get a whole new crank, but, no, it
was the wrong model number.
Do you think I should take it in anyways?
--
Researchers have discovered that chocolate produces some of the same
reactions in the brain as marijuana. The researchers also discovered
other similarities between the two, but can't remember what they are.
Matt Lauer on NBC's Today show
Patrick Rusk
Amateur Graphic Artist/Computer Programmer
Portfolio and Resume at:
http://www.io.com/~patrusk
Be sure to remove the anti-spam tag in my return address.
Matt Larson
> If you have an Altus, Acera or Alivio Crank made after 1993, get it
> replaced. It's been recalled by Shimano because it breaks.
>
> http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml97/97149.html
Wrong.
Only certain serial numbers are being recalled. If your cranks do not have
the affected serial numbers, they're OK.
Matt
--
Matt Larson, Paramedic
GWGFD
tim chock
DSL wrote:
>
> If you have an Altus, Acera or Alivio Crank made after 1993, get it
> replaced. It's been recalled by Shimano because it breaks.
>
> http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml97/97149.html
This is so typical of Shimano. This recall is happening, but our shop
has yet to be officially notified of the details (dates, models, #'s).
We have only heard it as rumor from our GT rep (GT is the major Shimano
warranty service center) yesterday! I've learned more from this news
group than from Shimano!
Simon Gray
In article <33C549...@juno.com> Troy_...@juno.com writes:
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)
>Xref: cea.fr rec.bicycles.off-road:59311 rec.bicycles.misc:33181 rec.bicycles.tech:53596
>
>If you have an Altus, Acera or Alivio Crank made after 1993, get it
>replaced. It's been recalled by Shimano because it breaks.
>
>http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml97/97149.html
Have you noticed that it the cranks have only been withdrawn in America?
There are two possibilities for this:
1) There is no real problem, but US citizens are too litigous to take
a risk.
2) European consumers don't matter.
I think that (1) is true as the failure rate is so small - 0.06% in three
years. I suspect the company's attitude is (2). This also seems to be
shared by the US manufacturers - we have missed out on most of the Rock
Shox recalls. For my part, I will buy European while this attitude persists.
Campag is cheaper than Shimano over here, anyway.
If I see a press release announcing the replacement of Shimano cranks in
Europe I will take back the above.
Simon "why do we pat 50% more for worse service" Gray.
David Pottage
Simon Gray wrote:
>
> In article <33C549...@juno.com> Troy_...@juno.com writes:
> >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> >X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)
> >Xref: cea.fr rec.bicycles.off-road:59311 rec.bicycles.misc:33181 rec.bicycles.tech:53596
> >
> >If you have an Altus, Acera or Alivio Crank made after 1993, get it
> >replaced. It's been recalled by Shimano because it breaks.
> >
> >http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml97/97149.html
>
> Have you noticed that it the cranks have only been withdrawn in America?
> There are two possibilities for this:
>
> 1) There is no real problem, but US citizens are too litigous to take
> a risk.
>
> 2) European consumers don't matter.
>
> I think that (1) is true as the failure rate is so small - 0.06% in three
> years. I suspect the company's attitude is (2). This also seems to be
> shared by the US manufacturers - we have missed out on most of the Rock
> Shox recalls. For my part, I will buy European while this attitude persists.
> Campag is cheaper than Shimano over here, anyway.
Or possibly diffent manufacturing batches where sent to different parts
of the world.
I have a shimano Alivio crank made during the affected period, but the
part number is not one of the part numbers subject to recall.
Stop trying to find fault with shimano, this recal is costing them $100
Million.
--
David Pottage
1st Year Chemistry Postgraduate Student, University of Southampton,
Southampton SO17 1BJ, U.K. email: d.e.p...@soton.ac.uk
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Al Raden
David Pottage wrote:
> Stop trying to find fault with shimano, this recal is costing them $100
> Million.
>
Minor correction ... this recall is costing cyclists $100M. I'm sure it
won't come out of corporate profits, but will be passed along in future
(or past) prices. This is the real flaw in our litigeous society; most
corporations merely pass along the cost of these things - particularly
easy if the corporation has a significant majority of the market.
--
- Al __o
_`\<,
...(*)/(*)
Dave Holmes
The model numbers being recalled are:
FC C790
FC M290
FC MC12
-DAve
Patrick Rusk
Dave Holmes wrote:
>
> The model numbers being recalled are:
>
> FC C790
I believe that's supposed to be FC-CT90. I have a printed card right
here in front of me from my LBS.
>
> FC M290
>
> FC MC12
>
> -DAve
--
Fennelly
David Pottage wrote:
>
> Simon Gray wrote:
> >
> > In article <33C549...@juno.com> Troy_...@juno.com writes:
> > >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> > >X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)
> > >Xref: cea.fr rec.bicycles.off-road:59311 rec.bicycles.misc:33181 rec.bicycles.tech:53596
> > >
> > >If you have an Altus, Acera or Alivio Crank made after 1993, get it
> > >replaced. It's been recalled by Shimano because it breaks.
> > >
> > >http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml97/97149.html
> >
> > Have you noticed that it the cranks have only been withdrawn in America?
> > There are two possibilities for this:
> >
> > 1) There is no real problem, but US citizens are too litigous to take
> > a risk.
> >
> > 2) European consumers don't matter.
> >
> > I think that (1) is true as the failure rate is so small - 0.06% in three
> > years. I suspect the company's attitude is (2). This also seems to be
> > shared by the US manufacturers - we have missed out on most of the Rock
> > Shox recalls. For my part, I will buy European while this attitude persists.
> > Campag is cheaper than Shimano over here, anyway.
>
> Or possibly diffent manufacturing batches where sent to different parts
> of the world.
>
> I have a shimano Alivio crank made during the affected period, but the
> part number is not one of the part numbers subject to recall.
>
> Million.
>
They're just covering their butts. There is no altruism there, they
deserve no sympathy.
Fennelly
Simon Gray wrote:
>
> In article <33C549...@juno.com> Troy_...@juno.com writes:
> >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> >X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)
> >Xref: cea.fr rec.bicycles.off-road:59311 rec.bicycles.misc:33181 rec.bicycles.tech:53596
> >
> >If you have an Altus, Acera or Alivio Crank made after 1993, get it
> >replaced. It's been recalled by Shimano because it breaks.
> >
> >http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml97/97149.html
>
> Have you noticed that it the cranks have only been withdrawn in America?
> There are two possibilities for this:
>
> 1) There is no real problem, but US citizens are too litigous to take
> a risk.
>
> 2) European consumers don't matter.
>
> I think that (1) is true as the failure rate is so small - 0.06% in three
> years. I suspect the company's attitude is (2). This also seems to be
> shared by the US manufacturers - we have missed out on most of the Rock
> Shox recalls. For my part, I will buy European while this attitude persists.
> Campag is cheaper than Shimano over here, anyway.
>
> Europe I will take back the above.
>
> Simon "why do we pat 50% more for worse service" Gray.
Perhaps we should relate this new thread to the previous debate over
whether the new four arm cranks are better cranks or just better for
Shimano.
Chris Phillipo
In message <33C58A...@mail.utexas.edu> - Patrick Rusk
<pat...@mail.utexas.edu>Thu, 10 Jul 1997 20:19:33 -0500 writes:
:>
:>DSL wrote:
:>>
:>> If you have an Altus, Acera or Alivio Crank made after 1993, get it
:>> replaced. It's been recalled by Shimano because it breaks.
:>>
:>> http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml97/97149.html
:> I got a postcard in the mail today from the LBS I bought my bike from
:>about this. I thought I'd be able to get a whole new crank, but, no, it
:>was the wrong model number.
:> Do you think I should take it in anyways?
If it was a different year, then there is no recall on it. So no, don't
bother bringing it in if this is the case.
___________________________________________
Chris Phillipo - webm...@tread.pair.com
TREAD Publications - TREAD Online! Cycle Magazine.
http://www.tread.pair.com/ - http://www.tread.pair.com/bikemag/
Chris Phillipo
In message
:>
:>1) There is no real problem, but US citizens are too litigous to take
:>a risk.
:>
:>2) European consumers don't matter.
:>
:>I think that (1) is true as the failure rate is so small - 0.06% in three
Were these models sold outside the US ?
Chris Phillipo
In message <5q4m75$r3$1...@news.cea.fr> - gr...@amoco.saclay.cea.fr (Simon Gray)11
Jul 1997 07:09:25 GMT writes:
:>
:>In article <33C549...@juno.com> Troy_...@juno.com writes:
:>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
:>>X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win16; I)
:>>Xref: cea.fr rec.bicycles.off-road:59311 rec.bicycles.misc:33181 rec.bicycles.tech:53596
:>>If you have an Altus, Acera or Alivio Crank made after 1993, get it
:>>replaced. It's been recalled by Shimano because it breaks.
:>>
:>>http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml97/97149.html
:>
:>There are two possibilities for this:
:>1) There is no real problem, but US citizens are too litigous to take
:>a risk.
:>
:>2) European consumers don't matter.
:>
3) they were sold in the US.
Paskowitz
DSL wrote:
>
> If you have an Altus, Acera or Alivio Crank made after 1993, get it
> replaced. It's been recalled by Shimano because it breaks.
>
> http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml97/97149.html
I wonder how the heck Shimano plans on replacing 1,000,000 cranks. Do
you think they have stock or DO YOU THINK THERE WILL BE A HUGE
BACK-ORDER!?!!??
JMTaco
I wonder how the heck Shimano plans on replacing 1,000,000 cranks. Do
you think they have stock or DO YOU THINK THERE WILL BE A HUGE
BACK-ORDER!?!!??
Backorder isn't the word, my friend!
TACO
Chris Phillipo
In message <33CAE5...@sloanca.com> - Paskowitz <je...@sloanca.com>Mon, 14
Jul 1997 22:50:23 -0400 writes:
:>
:>DSL wrote:
:>>
:>> If you have an Altus, Acera or Alivio Crank made after 1993, get it
:>> replaced. It's been recalled by Shimano because it breaks.
:>>
:>> http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml97/97149.html
:>
:>I wonder how the heck Shimano plans on replacing 1,000,000 cranks. Do
:>you think they have stock or DO YOU THINK THERE WILL BE A HUGE
:>BACK-ORDER!?!!??
There's no way everyone will bring them back, but I think shimano is capable
of cranking (oops!) out that many in a relatively short time.
Frank
Chris Phillipo wrote:
>
> There's no way everyone will bring them back, but I think shimano is capable
> of cranking (oops!) out that many in a relatively short time.
Maybe, maybe not. They seem to have trouble thinking in advance.
Shimano sent the shop where I work 10 postcards and 7 cranksets to
start. I went into our database and pulled a total of 246 names and
addresses out of people who need the replacement. Shimano responded to
this by sending us another 50 postcards--no more cranks, yet.
Another problem: out of the 7 cranks we've got so far, two were Alivio,
two were Altus, three were Acera-X. Our shop's average bike is more then
$50 over the national average, which translates into mostly Alivio
bikes, for our purposes. I've only seem _one_ bike that needed the
replacement that was something _other_ than Alivio. They don't seem to
understand that.
Nor have they figured out what to do when a bike comes in that still has
all of the origional drivetrain parts--including a stretched-out chain
that won't mesh properly with the new chainrings. Unfortuneately, most
of the cranks have non-removeable rings.
And last but not least, the cranksets all have to be mailed back, but
Shimano has provided only a PO box for their return. That's going to be
kind of expensive for us to mail them back via USPS.
They're paying us $15 a pop to change them--it's almost worth the
trouble.
Chris Phillipo
at was something _other_ than Alivio. They don't seem to
:>understand that.
:>
:>Nor have they figured out what to do when a bike comes in that still has
:>all of the origional drivetrain parts--including a stretched-out chain
:>that won't mesh properly with the new chainrings. Unfortuneately, most
:>of the cranks have non-removeable rings.
:>
:>And last but not least, the cranksets all have to be mailed back, but
:>Shimano has provided only a PO box for their return. That's going to be
:>kind of expensive for us to mail them back via USPS.
:>
:>They're paying us $15 a pop to change them--it's almost worth the
:>trouble.
My mistake, they sound like they're really on top of things :) Sounds just
like Wester Digital, expecting you to replace everyone's hard drive out of
your own pocket and "We'll catch you on your next order". HAH.
Frederic Leroux
the following number are wrote on the arms
FC-CT90
FC-M290
FC-MC12
arms can be mount on:
diamond back, fisher, giant, marin, moongoose, specialized, scott, trek,
schwinn, bianchi, cannondale, raleigh, univega, merida, performance, iron
horse, jamis, kona, maxcycle, maxam, peugeot, proflex, research dynamics,
ross, signature, balance, caloi, crestone peak, dirt research, parkpre,
motiv, nashbar, novara, mtn tek, softride, terry precision, timberline,
alpinestar, oryx, mikado, huffy, murray, roadmaster and many other...
so check yours :)
for more info call shimano at 1-800-353-4719
=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>=>
E-Mail me back at: Eat....@usa.net
Check Out my web page at: http://www.er.uqam.ca/merlin/bb791582/
GO EAT SOME DIRT DUDES!!!!!!
<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=<=
Fishea
>Chris Phillipo wrote:
>
>>
>> There's no way everyone will bring them back, but I think shimano is
>capable
>> of cranking (oops!) out that many in a relatively short time.
>
>Maybe, maybe not. They seem to have trouble thinking in advance.
>
>Shimano sent the shop where I work 10 postcards and 7 cranksets to
>start. I went into our database and pulled a total of 246 names and
>addresses out of people who need the replacement. Shimano responded to
>this by sending us another 50 postcards--no more cranks, yet.
>
>Another problem: out of the 7 cranks we've got so far, two were Alivio,
>two were Altus, three were Acera-X. Our shop's average bike is more then
>$50 over the national average, which translates into mostly Alivio
>bikes, for our purposes. I've only seem _one_ bike that needed the
>understand that.
>
>Nor have they figured out what to do when a bike comes in that still has
>all of the origional drivetrain parts--including a stretched-out chain
>that won't mesh properly with the new chainrings. Unfortuneately, most
>of the cranks have non-removeable rings.
>
>And last but not least, the cranksets all have to be mailed back, but
>Shimano has provided only a PO box for their return. That's going to be
>kind of expensive for us to mail them back via USPS.
>
>They're paying us $15 a pop to change them--it's almost worth the
>trouble.
>
>
Call Shimano and work with them before you bitch. I called them and got
600 postcards sent my way as well as 15 of each crank with a promise that
more will be available as needed. As for what to do about worn chains,
sell them a new chain, a new cogset, and/or whatever else they may need.
It doesn't take an MBA to figure out that generally the people riding this
level of bike do not know that these things need replacing every once in a
while. This is your chance to educate your customers and maybe make a
little money too. Last but not least, read your recall info again (more
closely). Shimano is paying return postage on the cranks as well as
postage for the postcards you send. I would say this is one of the best
re-imbursed recalls to come our way in a long time. Remember the
seat-clamp bolt or the stem bolts of not so long ago?
Dan
American Red Cross
Fishea wrote:
> As for what to do about worn chains,
> sell them a new chain, a new cogset, and/or whatever else they may need.
> It doesn't take an MBA to figure out that generally the people riding this
> level of bike do not know that these things need replacing every once in a
> while. This is your chance to educate your customers and maybe make a
> little money too.
Well, this statement pretty much shows the integrity of bike shop owners.
Ream the customer while you've got him at a disadvantage. I have a new
bike with the recalled cranks. The rest of the components, except chain,
will not need to be changed. If Chris is my LBS owner he might take
your advice and rip me for mucho dinero.
I know LBS owners need to make a buck like everyone else. But the way
you make this sound like is 'they don't know what you're talking about
so sell them one of everything." Reminiscent of the auto garage
mechanic who tells you you need a new engine when the head cover
gasket is blown.
Now that you've educated me I'll know what to listen for when my
LBS owner starts talking about replacing my cranks.
DB
Fishea
In article <33CFDF...@at.com>, American Red Cross
<lar...@usa.redcross.org> writes:
If you had been following the thread, you would notice the words WORN
chain cogset etc. Worn stuff needs to be replaced. New chainrings with a
stretched chain and worn chainrings will slip. I am getting about sick of
everyone in this group being so suspicious of the LBS owner. I am not an
owner. I am an employee, and I would not sell you a chain and cogset if
your bike is brand new or even relatively new and these parts aren't WORN.
The original poster was mad at Shimano for not thinking about the problem
of new chainrings with a WORN chain and cogsets. The answer is to replace
the WORN chain and cogset.... not "ream" the customer.
MOST LBSs ARE NOT OUT TO REAM THE CUSTOMER. WE ARE HERE TO BE OF SERVICE
TO YOU AND TO HELP YOU ENJOY MORE A SPORT WHICH WE ENJOY. So please get
off the "All LBSs are out to screw you. Don't trust 'em." kick. Thank
you!
Dan
Chris Phillipo
:>>will not need to be changed. If Chris is my LBS owner he might take
:>>your advice and rip me for mucho dinero.
:>>
:>>I know LBS owners need to make a buck like everyone else. But the way
:>>you make this sound like is 'they don't know what you're talking about
:>>so sell them one of everything." Reminiscent of the auto garage
:>>mechanic who tells you you need a new engine when the head cover
:>>gasket is blown.
:>>
:>>Now that you've educated me I'll know what to listen for when my
:>>LBS owner starts talking about replacing my cranks.
:>>
:>>DB
:>
:>If you had been following the thread, you would notice the words WORN
:>chain cogset etc. Worn stuff needs to be replaced. New chainrings with a
:>stretched chain and worn chainrings will slip. I am getting about sick of
:>everyone in this group being so suspicious of the LBS owner. I am not an
:>owner. I am an employee, and I would not sell you a chain and cogset if
:>your bike is brand new or even relatively new and these parts aren't WORN.
All these parts are WORN the first time you ride it. Why should the consumer
be forced to replace a chain and cogset that is WORN but has at least another
few months to a whole season in it?
rich...@cruzio.com
Frank wrote:
>
> Chris Phillipo wrote:
>
> >
> > There's no way everyone will bring them back, but I think shimano is capable
> > of cranking (oops!) out that many in a relatively short time.
>
> Maybe, maybe not. They seem to have trouble thinking in advance.
>
> Shimano sent the shop where I work 10 postcards and 7 cranksets to
> start. I went into our database and pulled a total of 246 names and
> addresses out of people who need the replacement. Shimano responded to
> this by sending us another 50 postcards--no more cranks, yet.
>
> Another problem: out of the 7 cranks we've got so far, two were Alivio,
> two were Altus, three were Acera-X. Our shop's average bike is more then
> $50 over the national average, which translates into mostly Alivio
> bikes, for our purposes. I've only seem _one_ bike that needed the
> replacement that was something _other_ than Alivio. They don't seem to
> understand that.
Probably they're working on averages here. A crank owner can return
the cranks to any dealer, not just the one they bought the bike from,
right?
>
> Nor have they figured out what to do when a bike comes in that still has
> all of the origional drivetrain parts--including a stretched-out chain
> that won't mesh properly with the new chainrings. Unfortuneately, most
> of the cranks have non-removeable rings.
Probably should warn the customer about that and stock up on chains.
Sounds like normal wear and tear, and a chain sale to me. We used to
face
this on Kawasaki mc warantee work. Most (not all) customers understood.
> And last but not least, the cranksets all have to be mailed back, but
> Shimano has provided only a PO box for their return. That's going to be
> kind of expensive for us to mail them back via USPS.
What do you mean "have to be mailed back"? Why do they have to be
mailed back? Is your reinbursment for the replacement labor
contingent on the return of the cranks? I bet they are trying to
account
for the cranks that are removed, making sure they don't get "recycled"
onto someone else's bike.
>
> They're paying us $15 a pop to change them--it's almost worth the
> trouble.
Seems reasonable in the best case. Kawasaki warrantee flat rate
was always fine if the bike was clean and not too worn. Otherwise
it was not very fair compensation.
KB
________________________________________________
You see, wire telegraph is a kind of a very,
very long cat. You pull his tail in New York
and his head is meowing in Los Angeles. Do you
understand this? And radio operates exactly
the same way: you send signals here, they
receive them there. The only difference is that
there is no cat.
- Albert Einstein
rich...@cruzio.com
In article <5qqq90$8p2$2...@news.istar.ca>,
webm...@tread.pair.com wrote:
>
>
> :>>will not need to be changed. If Chris is my LBS owner he might take
> :>>your advice and rip me for mucho dinero.
> :>>
> :>>I know LBS owners need to make a buck like everyone else. But the way
> :>>you make this sound like is 'they don't know what you're talking about
> :>>so sell them one of everything." Reminiscent of the auto garage
> :>>mechanic who tells you you need a new engine when the head cover
> :>>gasket is blown.
> :>>
> :>>Now that you've educated me I'll know what to listen for when my
> :>>LBS owner starts talking about replacing my cranks.
> :>>
> :>>DB
> :>
> :>If you had been following the thread, you would notice the words WORN
> :>chain cogset etc. Worn stuff needs to be replaced. New chainrings with a
> :>stretched chain and worn chainrings will slip. I am getting about sick of
> :>everyone in this group being so suspicious of the LBS owner. I am not an
> :>owner. I am an employee, and I would not sell you a chain and cogset if
> :>your bike is brand new or even relatively new and these parts aren't WORN.
>
> All these parts are WORN the first time you ride it. Why should the consumer
> be forced to replace a chain and cogset that is WORN but has at least another
> few months to a whole season in it?
>
Chris - check out the bit about slipping...
If they are a little worn - no big deal. He's not saying sell everybody
a new chain just to get money out of them. If the thing fits onto the
new rings so poorly it pops out of gear, the bike's not safe to ride.
I think it's legit for the customer who has ridden the bike enough (and
it does take a bit of time on the bike too wear the chain and cassette to
that point) to pop for a new chain. They're due.
They could do the labor themselves if money's tight, or argue that they
should get a deal on it if they think they are getting ripped off. But
they did get the miles out of the old one. It's a tough call, because
it's Shimano's mistake making the bad cranks, but I think it's reasonable
that the big S shouldn't be on the hook for seriously worn drive trains
as well.
> ___________________________________________
> Chris Phillipo - webm...@tread.pair.com
> TREAD Publications - TREAD Online! Cycle Magazine.
> http://www.tread.pair.com/ - http://www.tread.pair.com/bikemag/
KB
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
Richard Kaiser
Chris:
With your tagline I would expect better. Running a chain until it
damages the rings and cogs is false economy. Typical service is 3,000
miles (+/- 50%), that a lot of miles on a bike for most people.
The bike shops wouldn't have so many gripes if they explained how to lube
the chain (selling some chain lube in the process), explained about chain
wear and how it can damage more expensive rings and cogs, and show the
bike owner how to measure chain wear with a ruler. This would generate
more frequent repairs or more sales of chains and maybe a chain tool.
(Maybe we could get every bike equipped with a tire pump, tire irons,
a spare tube, and a patch kit too.)
The perspecive of the bike owners is wrong. The big S is paying for the front
chain rings, labor on the rings, and labor on the chain, they only have to
pay for a chain and maybe a rear cluster with labor. They will be paying
half the cost for something that will have to be done in a few months.
This will also make the bike owner more critical of the big S's non-reusable
chain pins and riveted clusters that increase service costs.
Richard Kaiser
In article <5qqq90$8p2$2...@news.istar.ca>, webm...@tread.pair.com wrote:
>:>If you had been following the thread, you would notice the words WORN
>:>chain cogset etc. Worn stuff needs to be replaced. New chainrings with a
>:>stretched chain and worn chainrings will slip. I am getting about sick of
>:>everyone in this group being so suspicious of the LBS owner. I am not an
>:>owner. I am an employee, and I would not sell you a chain and cogset if
>:>your bike is brand new or even relatively new and these parts aren't WORN.
>
>All these parts are WORN the first time you ride it. Why should the consumer
>be forced to replace a chain and cogset that is WORN but has at least another
>few months to a whole season in it?
>
Chris Phillipo
In message <5qt552$njq$2...@quasar.dimensional.com> - rka...@dim.com (Richard
Kaiser)Sun, 20 Jul 97 13:51:10 GMT writes:
:>
:>Chris:
:>damages the rings and cogs is false economy. Typical service is 3,000
:>miles (+/- 50%), that a lot of miles on a bike for most people.
It's lucky I didn't say that then, isn't it ?
:>
:>
:>The perspecive of the bike owners is wrong. The big S is paying for the front
:>chain rings, labor on the rings, and labor on the chain, they only have to
:>pay for a chain and maybe a rear cluster with labor. They will be paying
:>half the cost for something that will have to be done in a few months.
It was my understanding that they are replacing the crank, with the rings, and
not the chain. So there is no labour on the chain or the rings. Just take
the crank off and put the new on back on. If the customer is lucky enough to
have one with removable rings, they should ask to have the old rings put on
the new crank and keep the new rings for later. Since, as you say, the cogset
and chain will both have to be replaced anyway a few months down the road.
The customer is expected to drag their new bike in and replace the entire
drivetrain? You just bought a new bike not too long ago and now you "only
have to pay for a chain and maybe a rear cluster with labour". Well I'm
sorry, but that's alot of money to be spending on an item you didn't plan on
replacing until a few months down the road. If I brought my car into the shop
for a recall on the starter and they told me that my battery was going to need
a replacment sometime this year, so they'll just go ahead and do it for me for
the price of a battery and labour, "I don't think so Tim." would be my reply.
A worn cogset and chain does not mean a worn out cogset and chain. It's a sad
fact that alloy teeth wear down and begin to accommodate their current chain,
this does not mean that the chain is in such bad condition that it will damage
the chainrings, which are often steel at this level.
I'm going to mow the lawn in a week, why don't I just do it now? Hmmm...
___________________________________________
Jeffrey Potoff
Richard Kaiser wrote:
>
> Chris:
> With your tagline I would expect better. Running a chain until it
> damages the rings and cogs is false economy. Typical service is 3,000
> miles (+/- 50%), that a lot of miles on a bike for most people.
>
> the chain (selling some chain lube in the process), explained about chain
> wear and how it can damage more expensive rings and cogs, and show the
> bike owner how to measure chain wear with a ruler. This would generate
> more frequent repairs or more sales of chains and maybe a chain tool.
> (Maybe we could get every bike equipped with a tire pump, tire irons,
> a spare tube, and a patch kit too.)
There are a lot of bike shops that do this. The problem is that some
people just don't listen. It's the same way with trying to explain to
someone why you can use a quick-release lever as a wing nut. In one ear
and out the other.
Jeff
>
> The perspecive of the bike owners is wrong. The big S is paying for the front
> chain rings, labor on the rings, and labor on the chain, they only have to
> pay for a chain and maybe a rear cluster with labor. They will be paying
> half the cost for something that will have to be done in a few months.
>
Thomas H. Kunich
In article <19970719034...@ladder02.news.aol.com>,
Fishea <fis...@aol.com> wrote:
>MOST LBSs ARE NOT OUT TO REAM THE CUSTOMER. WE ARE HERE TO BE OF SERVICE
>TO YOU AND TO HELP YOU ENJOY MORE A SPORT WHICH WE ENJOY. So please get
>off the "All LBSs are out to screw you. Don't trust 'em." kick. Thank
>you!
Well, Dan, most of the people who complain about bike shops
couldn't change their own flats.
Their opinions are typically worth what is behind them. Nothing.
Jim Frost
American Red Cross wrote:
> Fishea wrote:
> > As for what to do about worn chains,
> > sell them a new chain, a new cogset, and/or whatever else they may
> need.
> > It doesn't take an MBA to figure out that generally the people
> riding this
> > level of bike do not know that these things need replacing every
> once in a
> > while. This is your chance to educate your customers and maybe make
> a
> > little money too.
> Well, this statement pretty much shows the integrity of bike shop
> owners.
> Ream the customer while you've got him at a disadvantage. I have a
> new
> bike with the recalled cranks. The rest of the components, except
> chain,
> will not need to be changed. If Chris is my LBS owner he might take
> your advice and rip me for mucho dinero.
You're being pretty harsh, and I don't think justifiably so. Most of
the LBS employees I've met are not out to rip you off; it's not good for
business. Before I figured out how to do my own work I'd regularly have
them make suggestions as to the appropriate work, rather than just the
superficial or what I was asking for. Ever had somebody tell you that
you probably don't need the glitzy part, that the cheaper one will do
the job just as well? I have, at several different shops (Belmont
Wheelworks, Farina, Boot N Wheel). Most of the LBS employees and owners
I've dealt with are eminently practical.
These guys are in it because they like bikes, not because they want to
get rich. It's practically impossible to get rich in the bike business
even charging those horrendous margins we all complain about.
> I know LBS owners need to make a buck like everyone else. But the way
> you make this sound like is 'they don't know what you're talking about
>
> so sell them one of everything." Reminiscent of the auto garage
> mechanic who tells you you need a new engine when the head cover
> gasket is blown.
No, the comparison would be to tell them that they need a new bike
because the chain wore out. It is indeed the case that if you've worn
the chain out completely that you probably will want to replace the
cogsets and at least some of the rings; you can avoid it, but it'll skip
and grab. His advice is correct, and if he's really good he'll explain
that you can avoid this added expense in the future by cleaning the
chain and watching for stretch.
This kind of thing is certainly not useless profit-mongering. How much
do you think he'd make replacing the rings, chain, and cassette of an
STX-equipped machine? Ten bucks? Twenty bucks if there's a huge
markup? That's not get-rich money!
rich...@cruzio.com
In article <5qte8b$lf0$1...@news.istar.ca>,
webm...@tread.pair.com wrote:
>
>
> It was my understanding that they are replacing the crank, with the rings, and
> not the chain. So there is no labour on the chain or the rings. Just take
> the crank off and put the new on back on. If the customer is lucky enough to
> have one with removable rings, they should ask to have the old rings put on
> the new crank and keep the new rings for later. Since, as you say, the cogset
> and chain will both have to be replaced anyway a few months down the road.
>
> The customer is expected to drag their new bike in and replace the entire
> drivetrain? You just bought a new bike not too long ago and now you "only
> have to pay for a chain and maybe a rear cluster with labour". Well I'm
> sorry, but that's alot of money to be spending on an item you didn't plan on
> replacing until a few months down the road. If I brought my car into the shop
> for a recall on the starter and they told me that my battery was going to need
> a replacment sometime this year, so they'll just go ahead and do it for me for
> the price of a battery and labour, "I don't think so Tim." would be my reply.
>
> A worn cogset and chain does not mean a worn out cogset and chain. It's a sad
> fact that alloy teeth wear down and begin to accommodate their current chain,
> this does not mean that the chain is in such bad condition that it will damage
> the chainrings, which are often steel at this level.
>
> I'm going to mow the lawn in a week, why don't I just do it now? Hmmm...
>
> ___________________________________________
> Chris Phillipo - webm...@tread.pair.com
> TREAD Publications - TREAD Online! Cycle Magazine.
> http://www.tread.pair.com/ - http://www.tread.pair.com/bikemag/
I do not think it's accurate to say that anyone will have to drag
in a NEW bike and replace the drivetrain. The chain and cluster
will not be worn to the point thatthere will be a problem unless
the thing is pretty old and used. As long as the chain doesn't
skip off the front rings under load, which is not going to happen
if there isn't a lot of wear on it (not going to happen on a NEW
bike) there is no problem.
I ride different rings and cogsets all the time as a consequence
of switching development parts around on different bikes, and some
of these have a substantial amount of time and miles on them.
It is only the real used up stuff that ever gives any problems
with wear. None of it could be reasonably thought of as new.
If the chain is worn to the point that it's unusable on new
rings, it seems to me that it is reasonable to hit the customer up
for a new one. They got the use out of the chain to wear it
out to that point.
If you are saying that you think dealers will hit up the customers
to replace chains and cassettes without needing it, you are more
cynical than I am, and that's pretty out there.
Chris Phillipo
on them.
:>It is only the real used up stuff that ever gives any problems
:>with wear. None of it could be reasonably thought of as new.
:>
:>If the chain is worn to the point that it's unusable on new
:>rings, it seems to me that it is reasonable to hit the customer up
:>for a new one. They got the use out of the chain to wear it
:>out to that point.
:>
:>If you are saying that you think dealers will hit up the customers
:>to replace chains and cassettes without needing it, you are more
:>cynical than I am, and that's pretty out there.
Undoubtedly, the worn parts, although working fine, wil make some clicking
noises. Judging by the half dozen or so posts a week here complaining of
nearly imperceptible creaks and clicks that just can't go unchecked, people
will be distressed by this. Riding it will more than likely make the problem
go away, but of the five bike shops here, I wouldn't put it past a single one
of them to recommend a new drivetrain to solve the problem. Then again, only
one of those shops was here in the spring, and when the small business grants
run out, the other four will be back to flipping burgers or filling potholes.
___________________________________________
Chris "Cynical" Phillipo - webm...@tread.pair.com
John Stackley
Chains should be replaced on a regular basis, and it's the bike owner
who is responsible for doing so, not the shop. Very often custoners come
in complaining of shifting problems; we look at the bike and find that
the chain is all stretched out and the rings and cogs are into sharp
throwing stars.
The same thing is happening with the crank replacements. Only the Alivio
has replaceable chainrings, so Altus and Acera-X (why are they all
"A"-groups, anyway?) have to options except to replace their drivetrain.
And most of the Alivio owners are into upgrading anyway. If the owner
had been doing any kind of preventative maintenence, they wouldn't have
this problem. In any case, they're getting new chainrings for free, so
it's not that bad that they have to shell out $15 for a chain and $25
for a cassette... they should do it anyway.
Let me assure you that most shops aren't out to screw people--in fact,
many do a lot more than you might expect for customers.
We're going to be mailing out postcards to about 265 people who qualify
for the replacement in a day or two--we have about 10 cranksets on hand
right now. Go Shimano!
Nathan Tomerlin
> :>>If you have an Altus, Acera or Alivio Crank made after 1993, get it
> :>>replaced. It's been recalled by Shimano because it breaks.
> :>>
> :>>http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml97/97149.html
> :>
> :>There are two possibilities for this:
> :>
> :>1) There is no real problem, but US citizens are too litigous to take
> :>a risk.
> :>
> :>2) European consumers don't matter.
> :>
>
> 3) they were sold in the US.
>
> ___________________________________________
Part of the above info is incorrect, the affected cranks were only made
up until 1995, all 96 and 97 cranks at that level are fine. Also, not all
of the altus, acera-x, and alivio made during those years are defective,
only a few production runs.
rich...@cruzio.com
In article <5r3bmc$2v2$3...@news.istar.ca>,
webm...@tread.pair.com wrote:
>
> on them.
> :>It is only the real used up stuff that ever gives any problems
> :>with wear. None of it could be reasonably thought of as new.
> :>
> :>If the chain is worn to the point that it's unusable on new
> :>rings, it seems to me that it is reasonable to hit the customer up
> :>for a new one. They got the use out of the chain to wear it
> :>out to that point.
> :>
> :>If you are saying that you think dealers will hit up the customers
> :>to replace chains and cassettes without needing it, you are more
> :>cynical than I am, and that's pretty out there.
> :>
>
> Undoubtedly, the worn parts, although working fine, wil make some clicking
> noises. Judging by the half dozen or so posts a week here complaining of
> nearly imperceptible creaks and clicks that just can't go unchecked, people
> will be distressed by this. Riding it will more than likely make the problem
> go away, but of the five bike shops here, I wouldn't put it past a single one
> of them to recommend a new drivetrain to solve the problem. Then again, only
> one of those shops was here in the spring, and when the small business grants
> run out, the other four will be back to flipping burgers or filling potholes.
>
Yeah, you're right. But if the chain gets oiled and the rider rides
the bike a little, it goes away fast enough.
You are coming down a little hard on the shops. I know a bunch
of people who work in bike shops (really a bunch all over the world),
and they are not slime balls.
There are a few who are, and that's not too suprising. What industry is
not plagued? (Let's see if you want to take on the task of defending
popular journals in general and the MTB press in particular ;> ).
Laura (my wife) took my car in to have the oil changed, and the "service
writer" tried to sell her on a drive belt change for $270. I checked the
belt - no problems. I priced one - $25. I figured out how long it would
take to change and special tool requiremments - about 15 minutes and no
special tools (or knowledge) required.
Life sucks when sales people try to make money without actually adding
some value, but it happens. I'm sure it happens in bike shops. But
I don't think it takes that much to avoid getting taken. Publishing
drive train maintanence is a good way. Your mag could take that on,
right?
KB
> ___________________________________________
> Chris "Cynical" Phillipo - webm...@tread.pair.com
> TREAD Publications - TREAD Online! Cycle Magazine.
> http://www.tread.pair.com/ - http://www.tread.pair.com/bikemag/
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------