are these wheels any good?
Nate Nagel
about "one decent bike") anyway this one has 27" wheels with a 6-speed
freewheel, and despite obviously needing a full tuneup and some new
tires, actually rides and shifts better than it has any right to.
One fault that I found was that the rear wheel is both dished wrong (may
have originally been a 5-speed wheel?) and is out of true, all I really
noticed was that it was a Weinmann rim.
I see Harris and others selling wheels with both Weinmann and Sun rims
with "Quando" hubs for not a whole lot of cash in the grand scheme of
things, are those decent?
A quick search on Amazon shows a LOT of 27" wheels that just look too
darn cheap to be any good... but can they be? I mean, for $30 or less
I could have a new rear wheel...? no indication of what brand hubs
though...
If these wheels *are* decent, it might just not be worth it to even
investigate whether 700c's would fit. But something "too cheap to be
good" sets off warning bells at least to me...
nate
--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel
Tom Kunich
news:h81jr...@news1.newsguy.com...
>
> One fault that I found was that the rear wheel is both dished wrong (may
> have originally been a 5-speed wheel?) and is out of true, all I really
> noticed was that it was a Weinmann rim.
If you can straighten and dish the wheel correctly why buy another wheel?
New wheels probably need to be tightened, re-dished and straightened as
well.
RonSonic
>Picked up a new toy today (yes, I was the guy that made that comment
>about "one decent bike")
Glad to see you've come to your senses.
>anyway this one has 27" wheels with a 6-speed
>freewheel, and despite obviously needing a full tuneup and some new
>tires, actually rides and shifts better than it has any right to.
>
>One fault that I found was that the rear wheel is both dished wrong (may
>have originally been a 5-speed wheel?) and is out of true, all I really
>noticed was that it was a Weinmann rim.
>
>I see Harris and others selling wheels with both Weinmann and Sun rims
>with "Quando" hubs for not a whole lot of cash in the grand scheme of
>things, are those decent?
>
>A quick search on Amazon shows a LOT of 27" wheels that just look too
>darn cheap to be any good... but can they be? I mean, for $30 or less
>I could have a new rear wheel...? no indication of what brand hubs
>though...
>
>If these wheels *are* decent, it might just not be worth it to even
>investigate whether 700c's would fit. But something "too cheap to be
>good" sets off warning bells at least to me...
I'm not sure how cheap you can go on prebuilt wheels without crossing that
dreaded threshold. You don't say anything about the rest of the bike and that
would very much affect my decisions on it. For example if it isn't index
shifting only for some reason I'd be real quick to upgrade to a 7s cassette hub
and get the benefits of modern rear cogs and well supported axles. Oh, and the
one more gear in the same 126mm spacing.
Converting to 700c is an option, the thing to watch there is the brake reach.
In any case I'd try to sort the wheel out first.
--
Oh damn. There's that annoying blog. Again. http://dumbbikeblog.blogspot.com
Tom Sherman °_°
> Picked up a new toy today (yes, I was the guy that made that comment
> about "one decent bike") anyway this one has 27" wheels with a 6-speed
> freewheel, and despite obviously needing a full tuneup and some new
> tires, actually rides and shifts better than it has any right to.
>
> One fault that I found was that the rear wheel is both dished wrong (may
> have originally been a 5-speed wheel?) and is out of true, all I really
> noticed was that it was a Weinmann rim.
>
> I see Harris and others selling wheels with both Weinmann and Sun rims
> with "Quando" hubs for not a whole lot of cash in the grand scheme of
Quando hubs are low end, but acceptable with proper lubrication in my
experience.
Sun rims are considerably better than low end.
If your older Weinmann rims are NOT hook beaded, do NOT use high
pressure tires, as they will eventually blow off. If the rims are steel,
plan to replace if you will ride in the wet.
--
Tom Sherman - 42.435731,-83.985007
landotter
> "Nate Nagel" <njna...@roosters.net> wrote in message
And if they're pre-builts, they probably come with crappier hubs and
single wall rims that are no better than vintage 27" stuff.
Factory wheels are indeed not "finished off". That said--they are
cheap "wheel kits". I've been eyeing some Deore/A317s I found for 150
bux so that I can play with some Avid discs. However--I expect them to
merely be laced up, and in no way ready to ride.
Nate Nagel
well y'know what I spoke too soon. It is just out of true. I thought
it was out of dish because when I was playing with it on the porch I
noticed that the tire was closer to one chainstay than the other. But I
just went and looked at it again and here when I tightened up the QR (it
was loose and the handle was in the wrong place) the derailleur must
have pulled the DS of the wheel forward (dropouts are nearly horizontal,
facing forward.) False alarm. Which is good, because if it were that
far out of dish I'd be mad at myself for not catching it until I got home.
For the curious, it's an '84 Trek 620, appears to be bone stock except
for aforementioned rear wheel (original was Helicomatic - might be the
reason - although it'd be nice if the rims matched) SPD pedals (yay!
don't have to buy pedals) some hard suede covered saddle that I actually
quite like, although I probably would have chosen plain leather, and a
Shimano rear der. and indexed DT shifters. Not sure about the brake
levers, they look period correct though. The der. and shifters look all
plasticy and cheap but goshdarnit, the cables are all crusty and rusty
and the darn thing still shifts better than I remember anything from
back in the day shifting. (now if someone could find me some 6-speed
SIS all-metal DT shifters... that'd go a long way towards making this
thing less offensive to my sensibilities. I can't really see the der.
from the saddle so that doesn't bother me.) Oh, and some knucklehead
put a really kludgy quick release on the seatpost, I will have to fix
that (maybe this was someone's city beater at one time? but the inside
of the seat tube wasn't rusty, and the BB felt smooth.) Rings and cogs
look surprisingly unworn, and as part of my test ride I really honked on
it in a high gear coming up a hill and it felt just fine.
Oh, and it looks like complete hell. Dirty, paint all scuffed up, but
it still has the original rack and bottle cage and I can't find a real
dent on it. I don't mind the "patina" - hopefully that will keep the
uninitiated away from it.
It really appears to just need a good cleaning, aforementioned rear
wheel truing, some decent brake pads (they say "kool stop" but they're
black, and they don't stop like the KS's on my Cannondale by a long
shot) new cables and tires and some grease in the bearings. Actually
I'm just ASSuming on the tires part. Do bicycle tires have date codes
like car tires? The guy said he'd been riding it, but the tires are
some weird looking ribbed Kenda things, and I think I'd probably feel
better peace of mind wise if I got some new ones before putting any real
miles on it. I rode it maybe four blocks and felt right at home on it
as soon as I got on, save for the crappy brakes.
I may still try the 700c's that I have here, but I'm less motivated
since someone apparently got the 6-speed SIS quite well sorted out, only
700c's I have are 9-speed, and then I'd have to get new shifters,
possibly new rear der, don't know if the original chainrings would work
etc... I was originally planning to go the 700c route but it actually
works reasonably well as is.
Nate Nagel
I'll have to check. Only the rear is Weinmann, the front is still the
original Trek rim.
RonSonic
There should be a metal D ring on the pivot of the right shifter, turning that
will select between friction and 6s SIS modes. The old SIS stuff is very robust
and unfussy. It isn't hard to adjust at all. I haven't tried interchanging 9s
with other stuff much. I'm thinking the chain's a bit wide to work painlessly
with a 9s cog set. I do know that most everything else will work with a 9.
Enjoy.
Dan O
Hank
Nice! Reynolds 531?
Dunno how stock it is, though, since I think it still came with a
Huret Duopar back then. It may be an '85 or '86 if it's SIS stock, but
those had Al shifters. I'm thinking retrofit, since a bike that came
with SIS stock would not have had a Helicomatic rear wheel.
someone
wrote:
Not true. The Weinmann A124 is a narrow section rim that fits narrow
tyres, by definition are high pressure tyres, which I used with these
rims, they have vertical inner walls and worked fine with steel wired
tyres at 120psi. Only when changing to a folding tyre was there a
problem with tyre creep where the tyre 'bead' would lift creating a
bump over which must be ridden.
Nate Nagel
Right, I'm sure that the Shimano rear der. and shifters are an add-on,
but they work really well. I think you're right re: Huret rear der (the
seller was out of town for a week before I went to look at the bike
which gave me time to do a little online research) It still has the
original Shimano 600 cranks/chainrings though. Obviously I have no idea
if the bottom bracket is original, nor do I really care, so long as rust
flakes don't come out when I eventually service it. (I'm going to have
to buy some more tools; most of my tools are centered around basic
service of a more modern bike with splined cartridge style BB,
threadless headset, etc. so I'm missing a few wrenches)
yes, it is 531... I couldn't check the serial no. because of the
plastic cable guide on the BB shell but the color scheme is definitely
'84, not the more desirable '85, but on the whole I liked it enough to
buy it anyway.
Now here's the sick thing... I have half a mind to track down the
"correct" rear wheel, derailleur, etc. just to have it... but I'm
assuming that bikes really aren't like cars in that respect and that
nobody "restores" old bikes unless they're REALLY collectible, and this
one probably doesn't qualify...
Nate Nagel
OK, I just took a closer look. The rear hub is a "SOVOS" and the rim is
a "Weinmann 2115." Total crap, or serviceable with a true-up and repack?
landotter
By servicing the bottom bracket--I hope you mean that you'll just
replace it with a modern cartridge unit. You shouldn't need any
special tools to remove old loose ball bbs. Usually some channel-locks
will do the trick. That said--anyone who works on bikes should have a
Shimano spline socket for cartridge installation, about $13.
I'm a fan of the cheap RPM bottom brackets that everyone uses as OEM
these days, and that a few folks rebrand as their own. They're the
Tektro brakes of bottom brackets. At the same price as a cheap
Shimano, which is also just fine, you get an alloy left cup. The
Shimano plastic ones are technically smart--the squidge of the plastic
keeps stuff quiet, but they're ugly as sin.
http://shop.vendio.com/benscycle/item/975157028/?s=1252223762
> yes, it is 531... I couldn't check the serial no. because of the
> plastic cable guide on the BB shell but the color scheme is definitely
> '84, not the more desirable '85, but on the whole I liked it enough to
> buy it anyway.
>
Yes, it's steel. So be sure and lube that sucker up with grease like
an extra in Fellini's Satyricon. Stem, post, and all your little nuts
and bolts. Might wanna give it a framesaver treatment if your area is
rust prone.
> Now here's the sick thing... I have half a mind to track down the
> "correct" rear wheel, derailleur, etc. just to have it... but I'm
> assuming that bikes really aren't like cars in that respect and that
> nobody "restores" old bikes unless they're REALLY collectible, and this
> one probably doesn't qualify...
>
IMHO, the only commodity parts I'd fuss over from that era would be
high end stuff or something interesting like 600 Arabesque or Suntour
Superbe. What's interesting about the bike is the frame, and if you
use modern bits to make it tastier--why not?
That said, there are sensible ways to start--old deraillers of good
quality and levers will work great with a modern Hyperglide chain and
ramped cassette or even freewheel. Those machinings will still make
the chain dance, regardless of indexing. Old brake calipers, be they
Dia Compe or Mafac will still brake like champs given a fresh dose of
pads, modern lined housing,and cables. I find modern levers like the
Tektro R200A (campy clone) to be so comfy and outright cheap--that
keeping OEM is silly, unless, again--it's interesting stuff. So if
confronted with some sexy Superbe levers--I'd keep the little
bastards, and make the cockpit more comfy with a switch to better
bars, like some Nitto Maes, which look right on just about everything.
landotter
Rebuild it and see if the cups are worn. If it runs smooth--run it
into the ground. It's not an expensive hub--but perfectly fine if
you're not a clyde and keep it maintained.
The rims are of their era. If it wasn't crap single wall Weinmanns, it
was crap single wall Arayas. I remember all my bikes from the late 80s
ended up having pretty radically strange spoke tension, as I tried my
damndest to make the rims both square through abuse, and round with
the wrench. Don't let that dissuade you. In recent years, I've had
fine luck with single wall rims--you just have to build them up to
their tension limits. If you do that--they'll last a long time on the
road.
The one thing I wouldn't do is jump on the 622mm conversion bandwagon.
27" wheels are kinda neat in their humongousness, and decent tires are
cheap. There are still a couple high quality rims available in that
size--so no worries.
Nate Nagel
Thanks for that - that is actually helpful. I have determined that the
brake levers are not original and worse yet that there's something wrong
internally with the rear lever (it's pivoting on something other than
the intended pivot, as the pivot point is no longer attached to the
clamp.) NOS Dia-Compe levers are still available and cheap oddly
enough, but I might just do the ones you recommend as I'm not quite
enough of a retro-grouch to appreciate loops of cable housing on top of
the bars. That doesn't explain why the brakes suck so badly though -
the stock Dia-Compe cantis are still in place and I don't see anything
badly wrong with them. So I'm gonna have to get some new pads... (of
course, the ones I have laying around are all threaded, and these cantis
use smooth stud...)
Yes, I'm sitting here in my basement with the bike, making out a "get
'er going" shopping list in front of my computer. What else do you do
on a rainy holiday?
On the upside, the cheap fenders that I bought for my other bike and
never installed look like they will fit right on this one with no mods
whatsoever.
landotter
> landotter wrote:
[snip]
I know they're recommended ad nauseum, but Kool Stop Salmons are what
you want for cantis. The blacks are OK, but howl a bit more, unless
you toe them in pretty well.
FWIW--the old cantis will likely set up fine with fresh stuff--but new
ones are so dang cheap that it's worth considering--especially when
you subtract $10 off the price--as they come with the pads you'd need
anyway.
Tektro 720s are $25 per end and come with cartridge pads--never adjust
your pads again, just slide in fresh pads and rock n roll. As
cartridge pads themselves are $15--the cantis themselves are $10. They
use vee style threaded pads, which if you do need to adjust their
relationship to the rim, are a little less goofy than smooth studs.
Stock Tektro brake pads aren't Koolstop quality--but better than
Shimano and Avid, in my experience.
>
> Yes, I'm sitting here in my basement with the bike, making out a "get
> 'er going" shopping list in front of my computer. What else do you do
> on a rainy holiday?
>
> On the upside, the cheap fenders that I bought for my other bike and
> never installed look like they will fit right on this one with no mods
> whatsoever.
Well that's good. Plastic fenders are still overpriced bits of
polycarbonate--it's nice to get use out of them.
AMuzi
http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/WEINRIMS.JPG
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Hank
I've got a Duopar from when I first put a triple on my PX-10. Trust
me, you don't want it.
It shifted well enough, but the jockey pulley is completely exposed on
the spoke-facing side. So if your rear trim was off at all (and
remember, we're talking friction levers here), and you backpedaled the
cranks at all (at a stop light, going into a turn, whatever) the chain
would derail off the pulley, and you'd have to get off and reseat it
by hand (pivoting it back usually did the trick, didn't need to get
your fingers greasy) before you could pedal forward again.
That's the point at which I said, screw the period-correct stuff, I'm
getting Ergos.
Nate Nagel
That's the weird thing, that's what's on there - Kool Stop black.
They're not even broken in; I just disassembled/cleaned/greased the
front brakes since my last post. Maybe that's the problem - combined
with crap levers and maybe indifferent rim prep.
>
> FWIW--the old cantis will likely set up fine with fresh stuff--but new
> ones are so dang cheap that it's worth considering--especially when
> you subtract $10 off the price--as they come with the pads you'd need
> anyway.
>
> Tektro 720s are $25 per end and come with cartridge pads--never adjust
> your pads again, just slide in fresh pads and rock n roll. As
> cartridge pads themselves are $15--the cantis themselves are $10. They
> use vee style threaded pads, which if you do need to adjust their
> relationship to the rim, are a little less goofy than smooth studs.
> Stock Tektro brake pads aren't Koolstop quality--but better than
> Shimano and Avid, in my experience.
See above - I guess I will hold off on buying new pads and/or whatever
until I try them with clean rims and new levers and cables.
RonSonic
>By servicing the bottom bracket--I hope you mean that you'll just
>replace it with a modern cartridge unit. You shouldn't need any
>special tools to remove old loose ball bbs. Usually some channel-locks
>will do the trick. That said--anyone who works on bikes should have a
>Shimano spline socket for cartridge installation, about $13.
Why replace with something disposable that has a useful life approximately equal
to the service interval of what he's got? It isn't better. It just saves maybe
ten minutes of adjustment (if that) at the cost of $20.
The rest of this I can get behind. Now if he's got white brake lever hoods in
decent shape he needs to either keep them or trade them to me.
Nate Nagel
Hah. they do have white hoods. yours for the cost of a flat rate box.
The levers themselves are garbage of unknown manufacture - couldn't
find a logo on 'em anywhere. and as I mentioned, one of 'em has a
broken pivot.
I could care less about the color of the hoods except that I would
probably prefer gum or black given the choice. White looks too dirty
once it's dirty.
Clive George
news:7miaa5pob31o64vbp...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 7 Sep 2009 06:48:45 -0700 (PDT), landotter <land...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>By servicing the bottom bracket--I hope you mean that you'll just
>>replace it with a modern cartridge unit. You shouldn't need any
>>special tools to remove old loose ball bbs. Usually some channel-locks
>>will do the trick. That said--anyone who works on bikes should have a
>>Shimano spline socket for cartridge installation, about $13.
>
> Why replace with something disposable that has a useful life approximately
> equal
> to the service interval of what he's got? It isn't better. It just saves
> maybe
> ten minutes of adjustment (if that) at the cost of $20.
The splined BB interface is rather better than the old ones if you're not
obsessive about keeping stuff free - you can put an enormous amount of force
on it :-)
RonSonic
Then go with the Tektro, stupid cheap and good. If those white hoods came with
decent levers I'd trade a set. As it is I'll take you up on the offer.
>I could care less about the color of the hoods except that I would
>probably prefer gum or black given the choice. White looks too dirty
>once it's dirty.
Yeah, but they look so right on a nice 80s bike. White hoods and white bar tape
are for bikes what a white swimsuit is for women. Not all of them can wear them,
but for the ones that can ....
landotter
Kool stops come coated in majorly slick mold-release compound. Sand it
off.
Michael Press
Nate Nagel <njn...@roosters.net> wrote:
> It really appears to just need a good cleaning, aforementioned rear
> wheel truing, some decent brake pads (they say "kool stop" but they're
> black, and they don't stop like the KS's on my Cannondale by a long
> shot) new cables and tires and some grease in the bearings.
Replace the bearing balls.
Fill the cups with more grease than
they can hold and wipe the excess
after seating the cones.
--
Michael Press
landotter
> Nate Nagel <njna...@roosters.net> wrote:
>
> > It really appears to just need a good cleaning, aforementioned rear
> > wheel truing, some decent brake pads (they say "kool stop" but they're
> > black, and they don't stop like the KS's on my Cannondale by a long
> > shot)
The black ones stop fine, but may need to be refreshed with emery
cloth or a box plane.
someone
I cant imagine backpedalling for a turn. If stopped and raising foot
to start and the chain jumps off the guide pulley then it is simple
enough to lift the rear wheel and turn the cranks while correcting the
misalignment (with friction levers). With indexed, your stuffed. If
you have 1cwt of luggage on the back you may also find this
difficult. The frequency of this event and the simplistic nature of
dealing with it do not warrant an exchange unit.
Hank
>
> - Show quoted text -
That's the problem - with the chain off the pulley, the cranks won't
go forward. You're underestimating the frequency and overestimating
the ease of the fix. Have you ever used a Duopar?
And if you can't imagine backpedalling going into a turn, you lack
imagination. If you're coasting through a quick and sharp S-curve
while doing over 15mph, you'll need to do it to avoid pedal strikes.
You go through the first part, and backpedal 180 degrees to go into
the second. The reason I don't pedal forward in that situation is to
avoid toe overlap on the front mudguard. I do that maneuver at least
twice each way on my way to and from work.
someone
> That's the problem - with the chain off the pulley, the cranks won't
> go forward. You're underestimating the frequency and overestimating
> the ease of the fix. Have you ever used a Duopar?
No, I've had other mech's jam after chain coming off and although it
could be resistant at times, given enough force on the crank and
moving the gear lever at the same time a skill could be developed.
>
> And if you can't imagine backpedalling going into a turn, you lack
> imagination. If you're coasting through a quick and sharp S-curve
> while doing over 15mph, you'll need to do it to avoid pedal strikes.
> You go through the first part, and backpedal 180 degrees to go into
> the second. The reason I don't pedal forward in that situation is to
> avoid toe overlap on the front mudguard. I do that maneuver at least
> twice each way on my way to and from work.
Really
There's a simple solution, amputation of toe ends. Then get shorter
shoes and clips (if you use them).