An unquestionable disgrace of American "Justice"

[Andre Jute]

An unquestionable disgrace of American "Justice" that no decent person will fail to condemn:

https://townhall.com/columnists/jacobsullum/2021/12/08/she-got-her-car-back-more-than-6-years-after-police-seized-it-malinda-harris-ordeal-shows-how-easily-the-government-can-take-innocent-peoples-property-under-civil-forfeiture-laws-n2600284

Andre Jute
Such things do not happen in civilized nations, never mind those self-elected as "exceptional"

[Tom Kunich]

One of the interesting things is that people often live in cities now and rent farmland to farmers who work the land for their profits and those of the people living elsewhere. It hasn't been unusual for edges not farmed to be used to grow marijuana by local youths and this gives the state or county a good reason to seize entire legally farmed acreage. Other problems are people using unused buildings on the lots to brew meth though that is somewhat limiting because they invariably burn to the ground from these processes sooner or later.

[Jeff Liebermann]

On Wed, 8 Dec 2021 08:30:16 -0800 (PST), Andre Jute
<fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>An unquestionable disgrace of American "Justice" that no decent person will fail to condemn:
>https://townhall.com/columnists/jacobsullum/2021/12/08/she-got-her-car-back-more-than-6-years-after-police-seized-it-malinda-harris-ordeal-shows-how-easily-the-government-can-take-innocent-peoples-property-under-civil-forfeiture-laws-n2600284

Yep. It's called "asset forfeiture", but should be called "asset
confiscation":
<https://www.aclu.org/issues/criminal-law-reform/reforming-police/asset-forfeiture-abuse>
The original logic behind the practice was that criminals should not
be able to profit from their crimes. The problems began when asset
forfeiture was applied to non-criminals and even "crimes committed by
property". An example of the latter was a local airplane owner would
rent his airplane out for most anyone with money. One such passenger
used the service to transport money allegedly collected through
illicit means across state lines. The police were waiting when they
landed. The police confiscated the money and airplane, and arrested
the passengers. When it was demonstrated that the money was legally
obtained, the charges were dropped, most of the money was returned,
but the airplane was kept as "evidence". It took about 2 years to get
the airplane released.

Yes, this totally sucks, but there's a problem. Asset forfeiture has
become a major source of revenue for law enforcement agencies. Many
of the items sold at "police auctions" were obtained via asset
forfeiture. As long as it's profitable, it's not likely to disappear.

--
Jeff Liebermann je...@cruzio.com
PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

[jbeattie]

Civil asset forfeiture goes back to the Old Testament. I guess Andre just woke up and found something new to complain about. Perhaps he should look out his window. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Assets_Bureau Holding property as evidence is a whole other thing.

-- Jay Beattie.

[Frank Krygowski]

On 12/8/2021 1:28 PM, jbeattie wrote:
>
> Civil asset forfeiture goes back to the Old Testament. I guess Andre just woke up and found something new to complain about. Perhaps he should look out his window. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Assets_Bureau

I don't see how Jute can stand living in that Irish police state.
Besides asset forfeiture, there's required proof of COVID immunity and
many other COVID restrictions, extreme gun control, carbon taxes, free
hospitals and doctors and dental care for the poor...

It's a conservative's nightmare! Yet while Jute whines about America, he
lives there. I'd wonder why, if he weren't so unworthy of attention.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Tom Kunich]

Jay, is there some reason that your legal training didn't kick in when it plainly showed that items were being seized both illegally? As a supposed defendant that opposes DA's one would expect you to have a vastly greater sense of responsibility. What the hell has gotten into you?

[jbeattie]

WTF are you talking about -- if anything? My simple point -- perhaps not simple enough for you -- is that civil forfeiture has been around forever. Andre is just stirring the pot with old news -- instead of perhaps writing some new and dreadful piece of bad fiction, or doing something at least marginally useful like polishing the bell on his Utopia Crackpot. In fact, Massachusetts has been studying its civil forfeiture law since 2019. It probably will modify the standard or proof (although that is yet to be seen), but more fundamentally WHAT THE F**** DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH BIKES? It's not even technical. You and Andre just want to spew political nonsense far and wide. STFU. At least try to write something remotely technical. Or just try factual to start. Small steps.

-- Jay Beattie.

[AMuzi]

+1
The actual circumstances went awry within a year of the law
but no one who can rectify it wants to. Abuses are serious,
numerous and of long history.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[AMuzi]

I am not a lawyer nor an expert but if I recall the Statute
changes from the late-1980s spurred abuses right away which
continue:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/981

[AMuzi]

Ireland is bad enough. He's probably happy not to be in
Slovakia:

https://www.conservativereview.com/horowitz-the-country-that-succeeded-against-covid-with-masks-has-the-highest-case-rate-in-the-world-theblaze-2655944084.html

[jbeattie]

Recycled from prohibition. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_forfeiture_in_the_United_States New and improved since 1984, almost 40 years ago. Some of the most conservative state legislatures have the most onerous state versions, e.g. https://newdrugpolicy.org/civil-asset-forfeiture-state-grading-map/ At the federal level, it was part of Reagan's war on drugs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comprehensive_Crime_Control_Act_of_1984

Civil forfeiture is being most effectively fought by your friends, the ACLU. https://www.aclu.org/blog/criminal-law-reform/reforming-police/supreme-court-didnt-put-nail-civil-asset-forfeitures And if we want to politicize this, it wasn't proposed by liberals, unless Strom Thurmond was a liberal.

-- Jay Beattie.

[John B.]

I remember back when he was keeping us all "up to date" on the
building of the famous "Electric Bicycle" and one of the excuses he
had for building it was the horribly excessive road tax for a cheap
motor scooter.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Frank Krygowski]

:-) "Inhumane." Some conservatives are so delicate!

"Look, they're wearing masks! Oh, the humanity!"


--
- Frank Krygowski

[Tom Kunich]

Again Jay, why are you ranting about this? The case in point met NONE of the legal grounds for civil forfeiture. While the son who was driving had a past record of drug use, no drugs were found in the car, there were no traces of drugs that might indicate that the car had been used to transport drugs, and the car didn't belong to the boy. The police actually stole the car and didn't notify the proper owner. Wake up rather than Woke Up.

[AMuzi]

Yes I was aware of that especially as regards drugs or
putative possession/intent/etc. Mistakes are/were made all
across the political spectrum and this is surely one of
overreach.

[Tom Kunich]

Frank, is there any manner in which you could possibly be further from the point? Why don't you start talking about Trump? No one could care less whether you wear a mask or not if you think it could help you. But your demand that children be forced to wear a mask that has been shown to damage children's health is stepping over the line. Mask have NO beneficial effect. But you are perfectly free to believe anything you like. But other people are free to believe what they like as well and government ordered mask wearing is nothing more than dictatorship. I have shown you the ACTUAL CDC papers saying that masks have no effect. So you have absolutely NO business telling others that they have to "protect YOU" by wearing a mask.

[AMuzi]

On 12/8/2021 5:01 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 12/8/2021 3:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 12/8/2021 1:28 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 12/8/2021 1:28 PM, jbeattie wrote:
>>>>

>>>> Civil asset forfeiture goes back to the Old Testament. I

>>>> guess Andre just woke up and found something new to

>>>> complain about. Perhaps he should look out his window.

>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Assets_Bureau
>>>
>>> I don't see how Jute can stand living in that Irish police
>>> state. Besides asset forfeiture, there's required proof of
>>> COVID immunity and many other COVID restrictions, extreme
>>> gun control, carbon taxes, free hospitals and doctors and
>>> dental care for the poor...
>>>
>>> It's a conservative's nightmare! Yet while Jute whines about
>>> America, he lives there. I'd wonder why, if he weren't so
>>> unworthy of attention.
>>>
>>
>> Ireland is bad enough. He's probably happy not to be in
>> Slovakia:
>>
>> https://www.conservativereview.com/horowitz-the-country-that-succeeded-against-covid-with-masks-has-the-highest-case-rate-in-the-world-theblaze-2655944084.html
>
>
> :-) "Inhumane." Some conservatives are so delicate!
>
> "Look, they're wearing masks! Oh, the humanity!"
>
>

These various punishments of the citizenry are not about
disease. They're about power.

[Frank Krygowski]

Honestly, Andrew, that view makes no sense to me. I have no evidence
that any of the doctors I've visited in the past 1.5 years (who have ALL
mandated masks) were throwing parties and laughing about "Look what we
made them do!"

FWIW, I've been very friendly with my family physician for decades. He's
a very smart, logical and competent guy. He's worn a mask every time
I've seen him since this pandemic started. He's required his patients to
wear a mask to see him.


--
- Frank Krygowski

[John B.]

Well Tommy, I've posted this before but Thailand, where you Must wear
a mask or be fined, as much as 20,000 baht ($600), has a Covid
infection rate of some 30,726/1 million and a death rate of
300/million. California where you live, and bitch about masks, has an
infection rate of 126,816/million and a death rate of 1,906. That is 4
times more cases and 6 times more deaths.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[AMuzi]

On 12/8/2021 8:00 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 12/8/2021 6:20 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>> On 12/8/2021 5:01 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>> On 12/8/2021 3:16 PM, AMuzi wrote:
>>>> On 12/8/2021 1:28 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
>>>>> On 12/8/2021 1:28 PM, jbeattie wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Civil asset forfeiture goes back to the Old

>>>>>> Testament. I

>>>>>> guess Andre just woke up and found something new to

>>>>>> complain about. Perhaps he should look out his

>>>>>> window.
>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Assets_Bureau
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't see how Jute can stand living in that Irish police
>>>>> state. Besides asset forfeiture, there's required proof of
>>>>> COVID immunity and many other COVID restrictions, extreme
>>>>> gun control, carbon taxes, free hospitals and doctors and
>>>>> dental care for the poor...
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a conservative's nightmare! Yet while Jute whines
>>>>> about
>>>>> America, he lives there. I'd wonder why, if he weren't so
>>>>> unworthy of attention.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ireland is bad enough. He's probably happy not to be in
>>>> Slovakia:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.conservativereview.com/horowitz-the-country-that-succeeded-against-covid-with-masks-has-the-highest-case-rate-in-the-world-theblaze-2655944084.html
>>>>
>>>
>>>

>>> :-)Â "Inhumane."Â Some conservatives are so delicate!

>>>
>>> "Look, they're wearing masks! Oh, the humanity!"
>>>
>>>
>>
>> These various punishments of the citizenry are not about
>> disease. They're about power.
>
> Honestly, Andrew, that view makes no sense to me. I have no
> evidence that any of the doctors I've visited in the past
> 1.5 years (who have ALL mandated masks) were throwing
> parties and laughing about "Look what we made them do!"
>
> FWIW, I've been very friendly with my family physician for
> decades. He's a very smart, logical and competent guy. He's
> worn a mask every time I've seen him since this pandemic
> started. He's required his patients to wear a mask to see him.
>
>

OK, I'll go one more iteration of my 19 month argument..

A cleanly shaven face with an alcohol wipe and a KN95 or N95
mask applied by someone else and properly fitted, changed
every hour or two, is a very effective thing.

A piece of t-shirt with ear loops is virtue-signalling,
ineffective, ridiculous and, in the case of children, snot
laden. They are not at all the same thing.

If one intends effective mask mandate rules, try making men
shave for starts and tackle the other larger problems in
turn. It won't go far with that course for effectiveness but
if one's goal is power the virtue signal is enough.

[John B.]

Re "power". Tell us about what taxes you pay and then tell us who
already has the "power" (:-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Tom Kunich]

The entire medical establishment is getting filthy rich off of what is little more than an extremely rare form of flu. And you don't think that is doctors rejoicing?

[Tom Kunich]

The breathing pores in an N95 mask are 300 nanometers or 0.3 micrometers. The covid-19 virus size is lied about by Quora and other so-called "fact checkers" and they all continually do this. The SIZE of the SARS-Cov-2 virus is 0.012 micrometers or 12 nanometers meaning that they pass right through not only the 300 nanometer breathing pores but the 100 nanometer paper pores. https://www.news-medical.net/health/The-Size-of-SARS-CoV-2-Compared-to-Other-Things.aspx What would lead anyone to believe that something that could pass CO2 couldn't pass just about any RNA molecule?

And as you point out, because of the moisture of the breath, the breathing pore rapidly clog up on the N95 mask and it requires replacement every couple of hours or less. Even those blue paper masks rapidly clog up and are of no use for breathing but still have NO effect on viruses.

While the claim from these lying "fact checkers" is that the viruses are carried in the moisture of the breath, that is NOT the case. Viruses are free forms that are hydrophobic. Because of their minute size, any moisture that could be on them almost immediately evaporates. The statements made by Scharf who has proclaimed himself and expert on these things shows just what length he is willing to go to support the fear mongering of the left. A large part of my life has been attempting to detect viruses and to hear the crap spread around by the media and the radical leftists pisses me off to no end.

[Frank Krygowski]

Right. All masks are not "the same thing." But that is not proof that
only the most precise masks are effective.

> If one intends effective mask mandate rules, try making men shave for
> starts and tackle the other larger problems in turn. It won't go far
> with that course for effectiveness but if one's goal is power the virtue
> signal is enough.

That seems to be a data-free assertion. And it seems that more and more
data validating mask effectiveness keeps emerging.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7883189/

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8

In any case, I remain astounded that such a simple measure is portrayed
as a horrible imposition. But I'm not surprised that the attitude
correlates strongly with political views.

--
- Frank Krygowski

[Andre Jute]

I this thread to test whether Tom is right, that Jay Beattie is now in the habit of contradicting everything Tom or I say. This is a subject on which disagreement automatically makes you an evil, unprincipled control-freak. If Tom is wrong, then it is like a hand of goodwill stretched out. It turns out Beattie, Krygowski and the Evil Moral Dwarf, Slow Johnny, reflexively batted away the hand of goodwill. Tom is right, these people contradict everything we say from reflex hatred, not reason.

Andre Jute
This is one of the things a competent polemicist does, Jay, test the mettle and intention of all parties.

[Andre Jute]

On Wednesday, December 8, 2021 at 7:28:30 PM UTC, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> On 12/8/2021 1:28 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> >
> > Civil asset forfeiture goes back to the Old Testament. I guess Andre just woke up and found something new to complain about. Perhaps he should look out his window. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Assets_Bureau

.
I must have missed this nonsense from Beattie. Do you know what judicial review is, Beattie? You should look it up. And the money confiscated from genuine criminals don't go into the Criminal Assets Bureau's budget or salaries. It's an altogether more salubrious operation than the cowboy thefts committed by hick policemen in the United States.

> I don't see how Jute can stand living in that Irish police state.

What police state? Policemen and women come to the door and leave there card and invite one to call them personally if they can help. I wrote yesterday or the day before about some policemen greeting me by name. Police deliver medicines to those housebound by the pandemic. Police go generally unarmed in Ireland because the crime rate is low and the populace appreciate them.

> Besides asset forfeiture, there's required proof of COVID immunity

How does one prove immunity, Krygowski? You witter on about "science" all the time and then you make such a kindergarten error? Hey, I know, you stick a COVID-infected needle into your bloodstream and if you don't die, you're immune.

In any event, proof of COVOD immunity is not Irish, that's EU regulation, and they've sent me a rather nice certificate of vaccination. However, I've never been asked for proof of vaccination. My neighbors trust me, and I trust them.

>and
> many other COVID restrictions,

Like what? You're pissing in your bicycle-helmet again, Franki-boy.

>extreme gun control,

Damn right too. There's nobody to shoot. Whatever makes you think I'm in favour of guns in inexpert hands?

> carbon taxes,

Eh? Where? My electricity comes at least in part from, by law, peat being burned, you dope. Do at least minimum diligence and look up the facts before you spray the spittle of your irrational hatreds over us.

>free
> hospitals and doctors and dental care for the poor...

What's wrong with that?

> It's a conservative's nightmare!

Whoever said I was a conservative, dickhead? I'm a Churchillian liberal, something of which you can never have any understanding because you;re a brainless berk, and totally intolerant of anybody who doesn't have your narrow Polish peasant outlook.

>Yet while Jute whines about America, he
> lives there.

Ireland is a safe, salubrious place to bring up your child, extremely cultured and welcoming to people talent.

>I'd wonder why, if he weren't so unworthy of attention.

This is the second time in two days you're written a long screed about where I stay, Franki-boy. I'm so glad you consider me "unworthy of attention, because it is a pain constantly having to correct a jerk who gets five facts wrong in every single sentence.
> --
> - Frank Krygowski

Unsigned out of contempt for a worthless jerk.

[Tom Kunich]

Frank, as I said before, you are free to believe ANYTHING you like. You are not free to claim that I have to take some sort of action to protect you. Especially from something that doesn't exist.

[Tom Kunich]

Actually what is going on with Frank and Jay is that the approval ratings of the Democrat are now at 28% and falling rapidly. Their mask mandates and requirements to get vaccinated and now demanding that CHILDREN get vaccinated have turned virtually the entire population against them and the locals who assisted in the election fraud of Biden now know that they will be watched next election and if they so much as hint at election fraud this time they will be shot or hung.

In a Democratic Republic it is possible to commit SOME election fraud - enough to make a difference when the numbers are close to 50/50 but at the levels that they will be this next election cycle it would be impossible without such massive fraud that it would be plainly visible to everyone. This is why so many Democrat House and Senate members are "retiring" and others actually switching parties in mid-term. It is likely that either this year's election or the next cycle the Republicans will have a super-majority in both houses and Biden will be prosecuted for his very public corruption and Obama who is presently the power behind the thrown will also be prosecuted.

The Radicals bit off so much more than they could chew that they are presently chocking on it and one of those coughing the loudest is Jay.

[jbeattie]

What is going on with me is that I have finally hit my limit with lunatics like you. It reminds me of teaching and always having to coddle the dope at the back of the class who has to blurt out some nonsense answer. One finally gets tired of saying, "well. Jimmy, I guess Jesus could have walked with the dinosaurs in Texas . . . " Now its "Jimmy, you're a f****** lunatic. You need serious mental health care. Go get that immediately." As Sir says, I should really just ignore you, but since I'm on a coffee break, what the hell.

So, in conclusion, STFU. At least try to post on a technical subject, and when doing that, don't spew nonsense numbers, made-up facts, speculation, etc., etc.

-- Jay Beattie.

[Andre Jute]

On Wednesday, December 8, 2021 at 8:16:15 PM UTC, AMuzi wrote:
> On 12/8/2021 1:28 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
> > On 12/8/2021 1:28 PM, jbeattie wrote:
> >>
> >> Civil asset forfeiture goes back to the Old Testament. I
> >> guess Andre just woke up and found something new to
> >> complain about. Perhaps he should look out his window.
> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_Assets_Bureau
> >
> > I don't see how Jute can stand living in that Irish police
> > state. Besides asset forfeiture, there's required proof of
> > COVID immunity and many other COVID restrictions, extreme
> > gun control, carbon taxes, free hospitals and doctors and
> > dental care for the poor...
> >
> > It's a conservative's nightmare! Yet while Jute whines about
> > America, he lives there. I'd wonder why, if he weren't so
> > unworthy of attention.
> >
> Ireland is bad enough.

It's a land of milk and honey if you can afford to live here. I never meet anybody who'd rather be anywhere else.

> He's probably happy not to be in
> Slovakia:

There are some places, no matter what your experience of looking after yourself in dangerous corners, you don't voluntarily take your family. Slovakia today is one of those place. Butler, the Irish essayist, forecast today's events before WW2.

I drove through Slovakia in the old days under the Soviets, a really beautiful country, though I was in too much of a hurry to take in such beauty. I'd been visiting people who risked jail sentences distributing my books as samizdat, self-typewritten copies, which was not explicitly illegal but seriously frowned upon, and could get you jailed by indirect application of other laws, and even if you weren't jailed, they'd break all your fingers so you couldn't use a typewriter. The secret police raided a reading and a couple and I crawled through a tiny window in the toilet and drove for the border. It wasn't much of an adventure as no one gave chase (that I knew of) and the only violence done was by me driving through a wooden barrier pole at what appeared to be an unmanned border post (I didn't stop to enquire if the soldiers manning it were absent or asleep on the job). I fixed up the husband with a job at my French publisher and his wife with a teaching position at a school of management a few blocks away, where she educated at least one French president and several premiers. On one occasion when I dined with them in Paris, they showed me the larger lavatory window they had installed, "just in case". My Paris lawyer, Maitre Olivier, tapped his waistcoat, which obviously wouldn't pass through even the larger window, and said, "Andre is a survivor. He'd leave me behind." Damn right I would leave behind a lawyer, regardless of how amusing he is, to delay the secret police, a bunch of really nasty torturers and rapists.

My experience, which of course I'd never admit to a publisher, even one who was there at the time, is that a lot of heroics are like that, anticlimactic. We were more nearly shot by border guards in the civilized west than by anyone on the Czechoslovakian side.

Didn't I once read here that you were an aficionado of the more sporting FIATs? That escapade was conducted in a FIAT 125 because it was a common enough profile as a Polski FIAT behind the Curtain in those days, and actually a pleasure to drive (if it was built in Turin and not behind the Curtain), pretty fast cross-country for a family car. I also at other times drove a FIAT 1500 (previous generation to the 125, twin headlamps high up under eyebrows, a nippy family car), one of the seven or eight Bertone 850 Spider with right hand steering (totaled by a fat woman in an old Holden in Melbourne -- the insurance, who thought they knew better than the owner, made me pay premiums for a Ferrari, and paid out as if it were a Ferrari after I explained the advantages of not making me into an enemy to their chairman), and a 130 Coupe, a fast, competent, luxurious four-seat (if the rear-seat two were not too tall) GT with a Ferrari-designed V6 engine, more reliable than the more expensive and, when it ran, even more competent Citroen SM with the troublesome Maserati V6 cut down from the perfectly reliable V8 (I had several in the three available engine sizes, and also the straight 6 that came before the V8, and never a moment of trouble from those sturdy, reliable engines -- it takes the genius of Citroen to bollox something that works that well). Today, if I could have any of those FIATs back, I think I'd choose the Millecinquecento, the 1500, which had superb handling and is fast enough for my roads,

Andre Jute
Die young and leave a beautiful corpse, if you must, but be sure meanwhile to stick your middle finger up the noses of the unholy..

[Tom Kunich]

By all means, come on down here and make me shut up. I would break your legs again and this time metal splints wouldn't work.

You and your radical pals are losing so big that even your election fraud will be insufficient to make the slightest difference. More and more Portland citizens are seeing people like you for what you are. Many of them are fleeing to Idaho but far more are going to vote Republican.

[Lou Holtman]

Ahh, I like the holiday season. Makes people more respectfull for other peoples views, meaning, political preference etc. I can’t remember that breaking ones legs is part of that. Tom, you go to church, no? WTF are you doing there?

Lou

[Tom Kunich]

Lou, you live in Holland and are perfectly happy with your government. Here Biden achieved office via election fraud and the swing states which cause this have been audited and sure enough, most of the Republican votes disappeared and Democrat votes appeared out of nowhere. When asked to SHOW these ballots, the auditors were told either than they have been destroyed (which in itself is illegal) or that these ballots could not be found or the one's that were were from people that did not exist on any records.

Biden is a demented old fool (and always was). He used to be the runner for Senator Robert Byrd who was a "Green Dragon" (a minor official) in the Klu Klux Klan. Biden OFTEN made strongly racist comments when ordered to do so either by Senator Byrd or President Lyndon Johnson.

In short - Biden has never for one minute been his own man in Congress and has always followed orders. For the first time in American History the citizens of this country have not the slightest idea of who is running it. Biden didn't leave Americans stranded in Afghanistan - he was ordered to do just that. American Aid workers were left to the mercy of the Taliban who have no mercy.

All of this has been supported entirely by the Democrats and Jay has been one of the loudest. Now I couldn't care less about what he has to say and he most certainly has the right to think and say anything he wants. But if he is going to tell me to STFU, he had better be willing to back it up or show himself as the coward he is. I am not kidding in the least when I say that if he tried to back up his words with actions it would be the last time he could walk and I would surely put him in a wheelchair for the rest of his life.

That might not be very Christian and especially at this time of year, but self defense is not a sin. Maybe you remember that Christ himself threw the money lenders from the Temple. Do you suppose that he did that with sweet talk or performed a miracle?

[John B.]

Ah, New News! Can it be true? this reported vast conspiracy
encompassing all the doctors, and one assumes medical staff, in the
whole U.S.

As Will Rogers commented, "It isn't what we don't know that gives us
trouble, it's what we know that ain't so."
--
Cheers,

John B.

[sms]

On 12/9/2021 10:18 AM, jbeattie wrote:

<snip>

> At least try to post on a technical subject, and when doing that, don't spew nonsense numbers, made-up facts, speculation, etc., etc.

You're tellinmg someone with no technical education, no technical
knowledge, and no technical experience to post on a technical subject.

How is that supposed to work?

[Tom Kunich]

Scharf, what is perfectly funny about anything and everything you have to say is that you know nothing and yet are willing to claim that my resume is false even though even Jay has made references to it. When a professor of Chemistry said that they could not have finished a project without my experience and knowledge your denial puts the lies to your own words.

It must really hurt you to know that with little official education I could be very successful and you couldn't even perform as a politician that requires only the ability to be liked.

[John B.]

On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 12:54:23 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich

Well, given that Bidden got some 7 million more votes then The Golden
Goose, the voter fraud was, one might even say "massive" and the
Republicans couldn't catch the Democrats in "in the act" so to speak,
in the perpetration of this gigantic fraud?

It seems to me that the Republicans must be a pretty stupid bunch not
to be able to catch the clever Democrats stealing 7 million votes.

From a bystander's point of view it would appear that going with the
smart guys is the best course to take.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Andre Jute]

Not to mention the Donkey Party-enabled crime and murder wave. Here are 12 Cities Smashing Annual Homicide Records, including beating records that stood for decades:
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/spencerbrown/2021/12/09/the-12-cities-smashing-homicide-records-have-this-in-common-n2600373
The one thing these cities all have in common is that they are Democrat-run.

For instance, quoted from the article linked, which, to be fair, does contain far worse examples in this Democrat race for the bottom, "In Portland, Oregon — where Democrat Mayor Ted Wheeler has been in charge since 2017 — there have been 72 homicides as of October 24th, the highest number since 1987." Let's see, that's more murders than in any of the 33 years since 1987. But Jay sputters on about "mostly peaceful" assaults and arson.

Isn't Mayor Wheeler (D) Jay's chum, who muzzled the police until his own home was invaded by a "mostly peaceful" lynch mob who wanted only to string him up on a lamp post, "mostly peacefully", of course? (See how woke I am?)

Andre Jute
Probably the most devastating thing the good people can do to the enemies of society is simply to count their crimes out loud.
.

On Wednesday, December 8, 2021 at 4:30:19 PM UTC, Andre Jute wrote:
> An unquestionable disgrace of American "Justice" that no decent person will fail to condemn:
>
> https://townhall.com/columnists/jacobsullum/2021/12/08/she-got-her-car-back-more-than-6-years-after-police-seized-it-malinda-harris-ordeal-shows-how-easily-the-government-can-take-innocent-peoples-property-under-civil-forfeiture-laws-n2600284
>

> Andre Jute
> Such things do not happen in civilized nations, never mind those self-elected as "exceptional"

[Andre Jute]

.
Once more you put your finger on it, Tom. Read as few as half a dozen of Scharfie's posts and you will discover the dominant element of all of them is Scharfie squirming lie a puppy dog to be liked,, and then pissing over you and your wife's favorite settee when you pick him up. --- AJ

[Tom Kunich]

His immediate direction of postings here became quite clear when over and over he made comments that were political in nature and not of any cycling nature. I agree with Frank on the point that we pay vast sums of money for a road network that spans this country like a spider's web. The idea that we would have more common use of bicycling if only we have more bicycle only roads or hard separation of traffic from bicycles is the lie shown when all you have to do it look at bicycle paths and notice that they are FAR more frequently used by people walking for exercise than cyclists. And those who are cycling plainly are not newcomers afraid to ride in traffic.

Comments from Scharf about bike paths only makes me think of a gravel trail from Los Gatos to dam and reservoir that supplies water to the town. This could easily and cheaply been paved over since this trail was used practically exclusively by walkers and then near the end of it rather than installing a proper ramp there was practically a step so steep that most people had to walk up it with a bike and most walkers wouldn't even try it. All of this would have been very easy and cheap to accomplish by the city council and would have been supported by the majority of people in that town who would have been not put out to pay the $5 per head to install such a system. So why didn't Scharf drive that? Rather he wants someone else to make a far greater and far more expensive system using other people's money.

So he simply shows that the talk of a politician is cheap and meant to be nothing more than to make him popular with others. Well, that sure as hell didn't work with me.

[John B.]

On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 14:33:52 -0800, sms <scharf...@geemail.com>
wrote:

Well, you get a piece of cardboard and make a sign and then stand on
the corner, holding your sign, and announce that the earth is really
flat, there is no Covid, or whatever your dementia requires.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Tom Kunich]

Lou, you are correct. I have tracked down Jay's email and sent him an apology. As I've said before, I appreciate the fact that outside mostly of our foreign members, that he is one of the few sports riders with the knowledge to be on this group.

[funkma...@hotmail.com]

Gee sparky, does your apology look something like this?:
"But Jay is not and his behavior is, in my opinion, completely out of line with his own education. I just have to wonder if he REALLY screwed a lot of people and his religious views are catching up with him and he is making the mistake of thinking that everyone did what he was doing?"

I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for a reply. Actually, no....please do.