Road bike tire size--20c, 23c, 25c?
cc0015456
noticed quite a few riders with thinner tires 20c??? and was hoping someone
could tell me the best choice for "street" riding. Most of my riding is on
city streets or country roads, alone or with club rides. I don't race, TT,
or do anything other than recreational riding.
It seems logical that thinner tires would have less rolling resistance but
I'm guessing they'd be more susceptible to flats and would wear faster. Any
advice or comments about this would be helpful...
TIA,
Chuck
Qui si parla Campagnolo
>noticed quite a few riders with thinner tires 20c??? and was hoping someone
>could tell me the best choice for "street" riding.
Well made 23c or 25c is a great idea. 20c tires do nothin' and are more
'fragile'. Also make for a harsher ride.
Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
Sheldon Brown
> Most of the road bikes I've bought came with 700x23c tires on them. I've
> noticed quite a few riders with thinner tires 20c??? and was hoping someone
> could tell me the best choice for "street" riding. Most of my riding is on
> city streets or country roads, alone or with club rides. I don't race, TT,
> or do anything other than recreational riding.
>
> It seems logical that thinner tires would have less rolling resistance but
> I'm guessing they'd be more susceptible to flats and would wear faster.
That's correct. The difference in rolling resistance is minimal among
tires of similar construction/quality. Wider tires are a bit heavier.
You don't say what you weigh, but generally, for the type of riding you
describe, I'd recommend something in the 28 mm range, maybe 25 if you're
light.
> Any advice or comments about this would be helpful...
See: http://sheldonbrown.com/tires.html
Sheldon "Panaracer Roll-y Pol-y" Brown
+--------------------------------------------------------+
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| more courses in marketing. --Albert Eisentraut |
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Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
Phone 617-244-9772, 617-244-1040 FAX 617-244-1041
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B a r r y B u r k e J r .
How big are you?
I'm 6'1", 210 lbs., and prefer a 25mm tire. 23's seem to pinch flat on
me far more often.
Also, keep in mind that some 23's are closer to other manufacturer's
25's in actual size.
Barry
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cc0015456
They are Michelin Axial Pro's but seem wider than others 23's I have used in
the past...
Chuck
"B a r r y B u r k e J r ." <*barry_b*@snet.net> wrote in message
news:3DCD6402...@snet.net...
B a r r y B u r k e J r .
>
> I'm 5'10" and weigh 166 lbs. I ride a Trek 5200 with 700x23's on it now.
> They are Michelin Axial Pro's but seem wider than others 23's I have used in
> the past...
>
> Chuck
>
You'll be fine on the 23's, I don't thing 20's will get you anything.
I ride the same bike you do, and anything bigger than a Continental 25mm
tire will not fit on the rear.
Barry
E & V Willson
resistance over the wider types. I use 25's to 35's over the road and 35's to
45's on gravel paths etc..
In my opinion, whatever advantage the 20's have in lower friction is more than
offset by the increased potential for flats (punctures), much greater difficulty
in mounting the tube/tire on the rim, considerably harsher ride, higher
pressure required, and lower cornering force available from the thinner tire
(i.e. it more prone to slip on corners). On several occasions I have punctured a
new tube just mounting a 20 mm tire to a rim, because it got pinched. In
addition, if you are setup for wider tires, you may find that your pump cannot
develop the 10 to 120 psi required for the narrow tires. Hope this helps.
Ernie
E & V Willson
your rims can hold. Before you go and buy some extreme width (either narrow or
wide) you should verify that your rims are suitable to the new width. If the
tires are not the correct width there is a greater tendency to pinching, or
blowouts.
Although not important in this case, another issue is the brake caliper
clearance, which becomes important when fitting very wide tires.
Ernie
Steve Palincsar
> You will find that the 20c tires have a very very slight advantage in
> rolling resistance over the wider types.
This is not what Michelin said about its own 20 and 23's. Quite the
contrary. They said the 700x23s had lower rolling resistance (as well as
having a significantly more comfortable ride). The 20s might have less
wind resistance, but for recreational riding that's meaningless.
Steve Palincsar
> I forgot to mention in my first reply that there is a range of tire
> sizes that your rims can hold. Before you go and buy some extreme width
> (either narrow or wide) you should verify that your rims are suitable to
> the new width. If the tires are not the correct width there is a greater
> tendency to pinching, or blowouts.
>
> Although not important in this case, another issue is the brake caliper
> clearance, which becomes important when fitting very wide tires.
And unfortunately, some frames these days seem to consider that even a
28mm is "very wide" and won't fit it. That's a shame. For _general_
riding (all kinds of road surfaces including chip 'n seal, old blacktop
or concrete, a few tenths of gravel here and there as well as smooth
pavement) the best tire is often something in the 27-28mm width.
700x28s will generally fit on most rims that will also take 700x23, and
the additional volume will let you run at lower air pressure, which will
provide a more comfortable ride without risking snake bite flats.
Also - 700x23s really are absolutely lousy on gravel.
Matt O'Toole
"Steve Palincsar" <pali...@his.com> wrote in message
news:3dcda3d9$1...@vienna7.his.com...
Continental said their lowest RR tire was the Avenue, a 1.75" street tire
for mountain bikes. Having owned a pair, I can vouch for that -- they seem
at least as fast as the fastest road bike tires. Just for fun, I used to
ride into my driveway, and see how many circles I could coast around in
before stopping.
All else being equal, fatter tires have less RR because there's less strain
on the casing materials.
Matt O.
Andy Coggan
Since the differences in wind resistance are greater than the differences in
rolling resistance, then by your logic the differences in rolling resistance
are also meaningless for recreational riding...not that I would necessarily
dispute this conclusion, just pointing it out.
Andy Coggan
Pete Biggs
"Matt O'Toole" <ma...@deltanet.com> wrote in message
news:5Fhz9.11856$6g.40...@news1.news.adelphia.net...
> All else being equal, fatter tires have less RR because there's less
strain
> on the casing materials.
All else is not usual equal though, because thinner tyres are usually
pumped up harder.
~PB
Jon Isaacs
>on the casing materials.
>
>Matt O.
Fatter tires have to have thicker stronger sidewalls to handle the increased
stresses caused by the larger cross section.
This means that a thinner tire can have a proportionally thinner wall
thickness, assuming the same materials are used.
This means that the hysteris will be less and thus the rolling resistance can
be lower.
Jon Isaacs
Jon Isaacs
>rolling resistance, then by your logic the differences in rolling resistance
>are also meaningless for recreational riding...not that I would necessarily
>dispute this conclusion, just pointing it out.
Personally I do like 20's though mostly I ride on 23s. With a careful eye and
making sure that the tires are have sufficient pressure at all time, even a 230
pounder like me can ride 20's with little problem.
jon isaacs
Suzy Jackson
patch is smaller, therefore they are less likely to hit a given bit of
glass.
Of course, in order to avoid pinch flats, which are more likely as the air
volume in the tyre goes down, you have to run narrow tyres at higher
pressure, which means you'll get a really rough ride.
I'm 75kg, and can run 20c tyres without any problems. However on longer
rides I tend to opt for 23c, simply because they give a cushier ride. The
secret to running narrow tyres is simply to make sure they're properly
inflated.
Regards,
Suzy
--
---
Suzy Jackson su...@bigpond.com http://www.suzyj.net
Tim McNamara
joni...@aol.com (Jon Isaacs) wrote:
> Fatter tires have to have thicker stronger sidewalls to handle the increased
> stresses caused by the larger cross section.
>
> This means that a thinner tire can have a proportionally thinner wall
> thickness, assuming the same materials are used.
>
> This means that the hysteris will be less and thus the rolling resistance can
> be lower.
Except that most published rolling resistance tests have measured fatter
tires to have lower rolling resistance. 700 x 28 tires seem to be the
best compromise for rolling resistance, doing better than tubulars and
skinnier clinchers.
The tests by Avocet, Greenspeed and Greentyre (IIRC) are all available
online and readily found with a Google search. If you can read German
there are several others, ISTR.
Peter
found the 20's harsh, 25's slow but the 23's just right.
"cc0015456" <caaronmin~nospammers~@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:qSudnbBxBbp...@comcast.com...
Qui si parla Campagnolo
>wide) you should verify that your rims are suitable to the new width. If
>the
>tires are not the correct width there is a greater tendency to pinching,
>or
>blowouts.
Excpet that mavic says that IOpen pros are 23c maximum or maybe 25c, but I have
32c on my fixie w/o problem.
Frame and brake clearance is the limiting factor-
Dana Kilalps
45psi and as high as 160psi and everywhere between those extremes.
..
"Suzy Jackson" <su...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:dwkz9.6899$eX.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Steve Palincsar
My personal opinion on this is, once you get past feeling like you've sunk
into soft asphalt, yes a minute difference in rolling resistance is not
significant to me. Differences in comfort definitely are significant.
As for wind resistance, let's put this in perspective: compared to my
width and height, how much difference does a 3 mm width on the tire make,
anyway?
And what earthly difference does it make in the long run, anyway?
Recreational riders typically aren't in a competition, and there's nothing
to "win" by being a couple of seconds faster over a 25 mile distance.
Besides, it was Michelin's conclusion that the 23 was the better tire to
use. One has to presume that evaluation takes all three factors into
consideration.
It's all academic to me - I'd have to run a 700x20 at about 150-160 psi
based on my weight and the weight of the stuff I usually carry around,
compared to about 120 psi for a 700x23. 120's not unreasonable, but 150
plus is way over spec. And even if the result wasn't blowoffs, the ride
would be jarring and uncomfortable.
Andy Coggan
> compared to my
> width and height, how much difference does a 3 mm width on the tire make,
> anyway?
The issue is not the increase in frontal area per se, but the effect the
match/mismatch between rim and tire width has on the overall aerodynamic
drag of the wheel. As I said, this is more significant than any difference
in rolling resistance, so if you're picking your tire width in search of
speed, with only a couple of exceptions you should favor 18-20 mm tires over
23-25 mm ones. If you're picking your tires for other reasons - comfort,
handling, minimizing the risk of pinch flats - then a wider tire may or may
not make sense, depending on what you weigh.
Andy Coggan
David L. Johnson
> Most of the road bikes I've bought came with 700x23c tires on them. I've
> noticed quite a few riders with thinner tires 20c??? and was hoping
> someone could tell me the best choice for "street" riding.
It depends on your weight, but the only folks who ought to be
riding 20c tires for ordinary rides are pretty light. I think tires
really measuring 23mm are the minimal requirement for most of us.
> It seems logical that thinner tires would have less rolling resistance
> but I'm guessing they'd be more susceptible to flats and would wear
> faster. Any advice or comments about this would be helpful...
>
You will hear that the thicker tire, at the same pressure, has less
rolling resistance than a thinner one. This is true, but the truth
underneath that is that a thicker tire can be ridden with lower pressure,
makeing the ride more comfortable with protection against pinch flats.
At the same pressure, for the same rider, a thinner tire is more likely
to flat.
Go with a wide enough tire, and you will be more comfortable.
--
David L. Johnson
__o | "What am I on? I'm on my bike, six hours a day, busting my ass.
_`\(,_ | What are you on?" --Lance Armstrong
(_)/ (_) |
John Retchford
>
> Narrower tyres have less chance of puncturing, simply because the contact
> patch is smaller, therefore they are less likely to hit a given bit of
> glass.
>
to the tyre and its pressure. The area is weight/pressure and does not
depend on the tyre width.
> Of course, in order to avoid pinch flats, which are more likely as the air
> volume in the tyre goes down, you have to run narrow tyres at higher
> pressure, which means you'll get a really rough ride.
Agreed
>
> I'm 75kg
Please! A lady does not divulge her age or her weight.
John Retchford
Steve Palincsar
wrote:
> You will hear that the thicker tire, at the same pressure, has less
> rolling resistance than a thinner one. This is true, but the truth
> underneath that is that a thicker tire can be ridden with lower
> pressure, makeing the ride more comfortable with protection against
> pinch flats. At the same pressure, for the same rider, a thinner tire is
> more likely to flat.
When you say "thicker" do you really mean "wider", or are you speaking of
the thickness of the casing and the tread? From the context, I'd guess
you really mean "wider".
whitfit
> >
> >
> > I'm 75kg
> John Retchford replied:
> Please! A lady does not divulge her age or her weight.
>
>
In the past few weeks, I've noticed whenever a woman posts, she can
almost be assured of a response that is really quite inappropriate.
If you guys can't respond to a woman posting with out proposals of
marriage, comments on what is or what is not appropriate for "a lady"
to say, even if it is considered tongue in cheek by the poster, then
maybe consider not posting at all. Maybe you guys aren't used to
talking to women, but in these kinds of situations your adolescent
preoccupation with sexual differences/innuendo is pretty pathetic.
Whitfit.
Java Man
tpwh...@hotmail.com says...
posters are respectful and polite. What you've noted are the failings
of a few, but certainly not the majority of posters.
Rick
Qui si parla Campagnolo
>talking to women, but in these kinds of situations your adolescent
>preoccupation with sexual differences/innuendo is pretty pathetic.
Are you really calling for some sort of decorum on this or any NG??
Good luck
Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Route convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
Alex Rodriguez
caaronmin~nospammers~@yahoo.com says...
>
>I'm 5'10" and weigh 166 lbs. I ride a Trek 5200 with 700x23's on it now.
>They are Michelin Axial Pro's but seem wider than others 23's I have used in
>the past...
Some companies would mis label their tires to get them to appear lighter.
Company A's 23 was lighter than company b's because they re-labeled a
20 and advertised that weight.
-----------------
Alex __O
_-\<,_
(_)/ (_)