Pedal crank extractor.

[Ian Field]

I have a crank "puller" comprised of a large threaded outer that screws into
the pedal crank, it has a threaded centre that screws in against the crank
spindle to separate the two.

Problem is; I noticed its not a very snug fit and often pushes out of the
thread in the pedal crank instead of pushing the crank off the spindle.

Its from an El-cheapo toolset from the Lidl discount store chain, so My
first thought is faulty tolerances - but are there "close but not quite"
different sizes?

For now the only way I can think of removing the pedal crank, is slacken the
retaining bolt, apply some WD40/GT85 and carry on using it till the crank
comes loose.

Thanks for any help.

[AMuzi]

Will you be using this crank again or is the removal just a
step in your new crank process? If you'll toss the thing,
warming the aluminum crank with a hand-held propane torch
works for that. Once warm, a tap on the back side does it.
Don't grab it with your fingers and don't heat a
nylon-coated steel crank; those catch fire before loosening.

General technique is: first clean the crank thread, install
tool fully and snug with a wrench, lubricate the tool thread
and then drive the crank off.

If you'll re use it, try mounting a known-good tool properly
and if that fails write back. There are various techniques
to remove a no-remover-thread aluminum crank, all with hard
choices about appearance, subsequent usefulness and/or cash.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[David Scheidt]

Ian Field <gangprob...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
:I have a crank "puller" comprised of a large threaded outer that screws into

Assuming a square taper BB and not something weird and modern, jacobs
chuck removal wedges work well. May require a spacer behind them with
long spindles.


--
sig 88

[datakoll]

we have shimano puller and geee whiz I love using it. the extractor is coated with hi linseed content anti seize as grease. Slimy.

all extraction are divided in 3 parts: prior penetrating oil pref PCBLASTER loaded into a brushed out entry, cleaned female threading, and heat heat heat.\

Jeeez what are nylon coated cranks ? backpackers in blackfly season ?

cleaning threads: visit Wal or your gourmand section in the superduper for a pacl o corn cob squeewers-ok spell check-bend a tip with needle nose p;liers then file into a flat chisel shape with point. Use this tool for scraping the female thread bottoms poss using a light dab of thinner on tip. There's alotta residual crap down there more or less unseen. REMOOOOOVE !

Heat the crank body before turning the already snugged tool. Having a puller does not allow cold pulls unless, off course, you have a nylon coated crank.

[thirty-six]

I'd just make it fit. Use a molybdenum disulphide lubricant on this
tool and you will direcly feel its superiority to "cycle
lubricants". Long spanner and bury the thread in the crank. Make
sure you take the bolt or not off the spindle first and back off the
inner part of the tool before burying the outer.

Oh hold on I misread, duh, well you can help it by dusting the
thread with rosin and wrapping string around it so as it stays
central, but I'd look to try one from a shop if you have the same
loose fit with the next crank. As you may be able to tell, my
extractor is generally a tight fit and I use a brass brush over the
thread before lubing and fitting to a quality/expensive crank.

If it's a pretty shitty crank they'll sometimes fall of with a glance
from a toffee hammer, but I'd go with a short ride with the bolt in
your pocket. It'll be ready when it falls off, save damaging the
crank taper.

[thirty-six]

Hmmm, install puller and heat puller. Dunno, could maybe work, but
I'm guessing the crank could be sinking the heat fast so it would
depend on the bulk of the tool and how fast one applies torque.

[datakoll]

WELL THEN USE HI TEMP RED LOCTITE ?

after surface prep

hard to that a puller duznot have 80+ threading.

[AMuzi]

The standard thread is m22 x 1, not a great choice for
aluminum and the loads involved but that's the world standard.

[James]

On 15/04/13 13:30, AMuzi wrote:
> On 4/14/2013 10:22 PM, datakoll wrote:
>> WELL THEN USE HI TEMP RED LOCTITE ?
>>
>> after surface prep
>>
>> hard to that a puller duznot have 80+ threading.
>>
>
> The standard thread is m22 x 1, not a great choice for aluminum and the
> loads involved but that's the world standard.
>

And another reason I loooove the Campag Ultra Torque crank set.

--
JS.

[Sir Ridesalot]

Ah, you atr completely removing the crank fixing bolt or nut from the crank spindle before screwing in the crank extractor? Also, is it possible you have the tool designed for a nutted crank but are trying to remove a bolted crank? When that happens the tool for a nutted crank will often go inside the bolr hollow of the crank spindle instead of putting pressure on the spindle.

Cheers

[Andre Jute]

Ian, I have the same toolset Lidl sold for Eur0 19.95 or maybe 29.95 0r 39.95. Except I paid Eur 90 or so for it from a reputable German dealer who had it on sale, down from 129.95.I bought it years ago, before Lidl brought its amazing marketing power to bear on bringing the unit price down. It's an excellent toolkit, and Lidl has brought it back several times. The crank extractor is particularly heavily and well made.

So, unless we're talking about different toolkits (the one I have is in blue fitted case about 12 x 12 x 2.5in, the Lidl ones were in the same case but black), the suspicion arises that the loose fit of your tool is the result of you having a non BSA thread on your cranks. See Sheldon Brown's site for a table of the various threads which are too close together to distinguish by eyes, and even a thread gauge to fit may cost several quid. If my suspicion is correct, your LBS will have the correct tool at the bottom of a box somewhere.

For a start, tell us the brand and model and whatever other details you can discover about your cranks, and especially their country of origin and where your bike was made. There are English, French, Italian and Swiss crank threading "standards", IIRC.

Andre Jute

[Ian Field]

"AMuzi" <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message
news:kkfaro$hbe$1...@dont-email.me...

> On 4/14/2013 4:59 PM, Ian Field wrote:
>> I have a crank "puller" comprised of a large threaded outer
>> that screws into the pedal crank, it has a threaded centre
>> that screws in against the crank spindle to separate the two.
>>
>> Problem is; I noticed its not a very snug fit and often
>> pushes out of the thread in the pedal crank instead of
>> pushing the crank off the spindle.
>>
>> Its from an El-cheapo toolset from the Lidl discount store
>> chain, so My first thought is faulty tolerances - but are
>> there "close but not quite" different sizes?
>>
>> For now the only way I can think of removing the pedal
>> crank, is slacken the retaining bolt, apply some WD40/GT85
>> and carry on using it till the crank comes loose.
>>
>> Thanks for any help.
>
> Will you be using this crank again or is the removal just a step in your
> new crank process? If you'll toss the thing, warming the aluminum crank
> with a hand-held propane torch works for that. Once warm, a tap on the
> back side does it. Don't grab it with your fingers and don't heat a
> nylon-coated steel crank; those catch fire before loosening.

All I've seen so-far have been steel, but I've used fire once or twice.

This time I decided to bite the bullet and fork out for a decent quality
puller - that worked.

Just as well I didn't destroy the old one, the 3sp one I wanted to fit
wouldn't go on the square end as far, it was so far out of alignment with
the 7sp sprockets that the chain wouldn't stay on.

Am I missing something here? - I was going to fit a 3sp chainwheel and get
around to fitting the changer eventually. Presumably the changer would keep
the chain on the selected chainwheel - but the misalignment was so
conspicuous as to not look right.

[Ian Field]

"James" <james.e...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:kkfv5o$mia$1...@dont-email.me...

All the ones I've seen so far were steel - the problem was dodgy tolerances
on the puller in the discount store tool set.

I bought a decent quality tool today - job done.

[Ian Field]

"thirty-six" <thirt...@live.co.uk> wrote in message
news:b4592f54-7605-4ebb...@j14g2000vbk.googlegroups.com...

> On 14 Apr, 22:59, "Ian Field" <gangprobing.al...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>> I have a crank "puller" comprised of a large threaded outer that screws
>> into
>> the pedal crank, it has a threaded centre that screws in against the
>> crank
>> spindle to separate the two.
>>
>> Problem is; I noticed its not a very snug fit and often pushes out of the
>> thread in the pedal crank instead of pushing the crank off the spindle.
>>
>> Its from an El-cheapo toolset from the Lidl discount store chain, so My
>> first thought is faulty tolerances - but are there "close but not quite"
>> different sizes?
>>
>> For now the only way I can think of removing the pedal crank, is slacken
>> the
>> retaining bolt, apply some WD40/GT85 and carry on using it till the crank
>> comes loose.
>>
>> Thanks for any help.
>
> I'd just make it fit. Use a molybdenum disulphide lubricant on this
> tool and you will direcly feel its superiority to "cycle
> lubricants". Long spanner and bury the thread in the crank. Make
> sure you take the bolt or not off the spindle first and back off the
> inner part of the tool before burying the outer.
>
> Oh hold on I misread, duh, well you can help it by dusting the
> thread with rosin and wrapping string around it so as it stays
> central,

Now I think about it, the only time this puller has worked was when it
pushed out at a slant and cross threaded itself - that didn't work on this
occasion.

The puller in the discount store tool set had dodgy tolerances - I've bought
a decent quality puller - job done.

[Ian Field]

"Sir Ridesalot" <i_am_cyc...@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:95891a13-9240-4a77...@googlegroups.com...

AFAIK - the puller won't actually screw into the crank with the nut or bolt
still in the way.

[Ian Field]

"Andre Jute" <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:17ac2fc1-60cb-44ab...@googlegroups.com...

I've just locked up the shed after using and putting away the puller I just
bought from Halfrauds and I can't be bothered going out there again to look.

Many of the tools in the Lidl tool set are very much mountain bike types -
so finding ye olde BSA puller among them would be quite a surprise!

[AMuzi]

Me too. A truly inspired format for a bicycle crank.

The development of the Hirth Joint in Luftwaffe engines (for
a second-place finish) was merely 'proof of concept'.

[AMuzi]

Crank designers have a wide assortment of variables
available to get proper chainline with a given spindle
length. The one you removed is obviously of different design
from the one you installed on the old spindle.

For example, classic era cranks are mostly flat across the
outside face and use relatively long, asymmetric spindles.
More modern square taper arms are curved inward from pedal
to spindle and use generally shorter spindles, almost always
of symmetric design.

Short answer: wrong spindle for that crank.

[Andre Jute]

Ha! I knew I shouldn't have quoted it from memory. Perhaps I'll be nice to Krygowski, and he can come pick up behind me... -- AJ

[Ian Field]

"Andre Jute" <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:cca7d379-f7f4-48ac...@googlegroups.com...

Were you thinking of British Cycle Thread? - allegedly this is still popular
on some larger fittings even though nearly all smaller fasteners have gone
metric.

[Andre Jute]

Thanks for helping me save face, Ian. But the truth is that, now that I'm fully awake and have ingested several cups of coffee -- even I don't know what I was confusing your problem with. Perhaps, after reference to Sheldon's site, with bottom bracket threads.

I used to restore old Bentleys, and turn the ones too far gone into sports cars. One of the many things you had to watch out for was British Standard (I hurl a nine-foot duke every time I hear "British Standard", an oxymoron if ever there was one) Whitworth threads. But I found a use for one of those expensive spanners now that I'm a cyclist. The Rohloff hub gearbox on my everyday bike has a tool for removing the sprocket that takes a 22mm wrench, the longer the better. A 7/8in BSW spanner is exactly 22mm, in fact fits better than a 22mm spanner from a reputable German maker someone gave me, and is fully 14in long, a real football hooligan's spanner.

And that is the only good thing I've ever found to say about "British Standards".

Rant mode off...

Andre Jute

[datakoll]

Field lives in England ? How are your tools fairing with English atmosphere water content ?

[Ian Field]

"Andre Jute" <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:3d529c5d-5c1a-4ca2...@googlegroups.com...

> On Monday, April 15, 2013 6:55:54 PM UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:
>> "Andre Jute" <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

<snip>

> Thanks for helping me save face, Ian. But the truth is that, now that I'm
> fully awake and have ingested several cups of coffee -- even I don't know
> what I was confusing your problem with. Perhaps, after reference to
> Sheldon's site, with bottom bracket threads.

Looking at all those tables of 'standards' for ancient cycle threads makes
my head spin - I still haven't recovered from the rim size tables!

For now, I bought a puller that works from Halfrauds, I actually bought 2 of
the Lidl tool sets and can't remember whether I've tried using the puller
from the other set (its at another location where its only used in
emergency). Someday I'll get around to finding out if the Lidl puller has
dodgy tolerances or an incompatible standard.

[Ian Field]

"datakoll" <data...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:50a0bc73-ad3a-4bc1...@googlegroups.com...

> Field lives in England ? How are your tools fairing with English
> atmosphere water content ?

The first thing I did with the new puller, is grease its threads.

Corrosion is only much of a problem with rarely used tools - my motorcycle
chain punch will probably need a good dose of GT85 next time I need it.

[Ian Field]

"Andre Jute" <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:17ac2fc1-60cb-44ab...@googlegroups.com...

> On Sunday, April 14, 2013 10:59:00 PM UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:
>> I have a crank "puller" comprised of a large threaded outer that screws
>> into
>>
>> the pedal crank, it has a threaded centre that screws in against the
>> crank
>>
>> spindle to separate the two.
>>
>>
>>
>> Problem is; I noticed its not a very snug fit and often pushes out of the
>>
>> thread in the pedal crank instead of pushing the crank off the spindle.
>>
>>
>>
>> Its from an El-cheapo toolset from the Lidl discount store chain, so My
>>
>> first thought is faulty tolerances - but are there "close but not quite"
>>
>> different sizes?
>>
>>
>>
>> For now the only way I can think of removing the pedal crank, is slacken
>> the
>>
>> retaining bolt, apply some WD40/GT85 and carry on using it till the crank
>>
>> comes loose.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for any help.
>
> Ian, I have the same toolset Lidl sold for Eur0 19.95 or maybe 29.95 0r
> 39.95. Except I paid Eur 90 or so for it from a reputable German dealer
> who had it on sale, down from 129.95.I bought it years ago, before Lidl
> brought its amazing marketing power to bear on bringing the unit price
> down. It's an excellent toolkit, and Lidl has brought it back several
> times. The crank extractor is particularly heavily and well made.

This one is branded Powerfix ARW - I've just used the chain/strap wrench and
the handle immediately bent almost 90 deg! It looks like mild steel and they
didn't even bother to temper it.

Mind you, it was a tricky job to remove the sprocket/freewheel assy, Right
from the start the powerfix pin spanner pins didn't reach the holes in the
bit that screws to the hub, so I waded in with hammer & punch - only to find
the bit with 2 holes in came loose & spun freely.

Having decided the freewheel ratchet was faulty & not worth saving, I welded
it solid so I could have at it with the chain wrench, even though I quenched
it with loads of freeing oil, the handle of the chain wrench just twisted
and bent before moving anything!

So far, the only tool in the kit that works as you'd expect it to is the
spoke nipple key!

[Andre Jute]

Most definitely not the same kit. My kit is sturdy and is or has been sold by many of the most reputable dealers, for instance by both Chainreaction and Wiggle, who would reject something as crappy as you describe; the same box has also been branded by XTools and others whose names I now don't remember. And it definitely is the same kit that Lidl sold; I handled it when it was on sale at Lidl. But Lidl sells bicycle tools or gear four times a year, so I assume that over time they've sold other kits. I've certainly bought some crap at Lidl (stand pump that didn't pump, multitool that flopped all over the place, cycling jacket with storm flaps so limp they continually caught in the zips, bike computer that died at Drop 1 of a light rain, etc). I'm not pretending these tools I bought in Germany are brilliant. I bought the box of tools as a fast way to start a toolkit, and then as my understanding and skills grew, and my bikes became ever more sophisticated, replaced each tool individually with a best quality tool to build up really decent toolkit, two in fact, one a minimum kit for carrying on the bike in a leather baggie, the other a maximum kit in a pilot's aluminium flight case with which I can, theoretically at least, do any job on the bike that doesn't involve machining. One of the tools from the original box that I've kept, because I haven't found a better one, is strangely enough the crank puller.

The Powerfix or Crivit brands don't tell us much: those are just Lidl house brands.

Andre Jute
Toolfondler

[Ian Field]

Sometimes the Lidl crap isn't *QUITE* as crappy as usual, some time ago I
bought a LED front light, it is a bit flimsy but should survive if not
mistreated.

Apparently there's an upcoming offer of the same lamp but with alkaline
cells and no included charger - although the lamp is identical to the
previous one has a connector to take the charger.

Its a serious possibility I might go for it just for the spare handlebar
clamp - if mine broke, the lamp I've got would be useless.

[Andre Jute]

On Wednesday, April 17, 2013 4:52:28 PM UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:
> >>
> Sometimes the Lidl crap isn't *QUITE* as crappy as usual, some time ago I
>
> bought a LED front light, it is a bit flimsy but should survive if not
>
> mistreated.
>
> Apparently there's an upcoming offer of the same lamp but with alkaline
>
> cells and no included charger - although the lamp is identical to the
>
> previous one has a connector to take the charger.
>
>
>
> Its a serious possibility I might go for it just for the spare handlebar
>
> clamp - if mine broke, the lamp I've got would be useless.

Back in the day, when good batteries cost an absolute fortune, and LED lamps were just a dream, about ten years ago, I built my own halogen lamps with MR11 and MR16 sealed shells glued into small Roma tomato puree tins. I used surplus batteries from power tools to light up this lot, and switches from a Swiss medical electronics maker (I had a collection paid for by a Japanese amp manufacturer for whom I designed tube amps and speakers) to dim the array or switch it on progressively if drivers were stupid, -- and for mountings I found that those of a cheap lamp set from the pound shop worked very well. I'd buy a few sets, and throw the lamps into the pound shop bin, carrying just the mounting hardware home with me. They probably thought I was a crazy man.

Andre Jute

[datakoll]

try linseed mixed with aluminum anti seize.

grease as oil/gas is lighter than water. water invade or resists protection. in facto, dialoque here strongly suggests grease is shipped with water from refinery as eliminating water from higher temp apllications is unnecessary, reports from Siberia and Canada are slow to surface as negative product factors. kinda frozen in...

the mix is super for seat post lube.

we are amsued at your intolerances with your central location to the spectrum.

thanks to japanese cycle industry standards !

BTW, Frank Berto is 81 ! YO FRANK ! Frank wrote a book delineating standardization.

[datakoll]

there's a #8 screw in my SU's.

advanced metallurgy

[thirty-six]

it can be socially acceptable if you have a madical diagnosees.
What's crazy IS society and the general acceptance of the madic circle
and their control on people's lives. They are now not only issuing
death sentences but carrying out executions under payment of UKcorp in
Britain.. Anyway the theft of land in N.America has been judged
unlawful and we have to hand over back to the natives. The European
and African descended populace will be squashed into enclosures
representing something like 2% of landspace of what is currently known
as uSA. Population needs to be cut as this land cannot support it and
so public health care is born in USA. Guess what comes next. USA
citizens only sure way of surviving in N. America is to become a nomad
and avoid getting pulled in to the enclosure , in which case you can
survive in the reservation. If you don't fancy that, get out, away
from the rule of UKcorp courts. Don't even bother with any of the
Commonwealth or old Empire

Why else do you USAins believe they want you ID tagged and steal your
guns? If you weren't spending so much on Eastern Europe internet porn
then maybe your government could have got a bit more land for you but
the thieving scum has been draining you for 180 years through "The
Bank of America" (and similar private banks) with it's offshore
businesses such as in the Caymen Isles.

Of couse the above is just my enthusiastic imagination and there maybe
no truth in any of it.

[Ian Field]

"AMuzi" <a...@yellowjersey.org> wrote in message

news:kkhaag$8j4$1...@dont-email.me...

In your opinion, is it worth trying the spindle from the frame I got the
chainwheel from - or is it just as likely to be too long between the
bearings?!

I was tempted to service the bottom bracket and lash it with "friction
modifier" grease, but when checked I couldn't feel any play at all (if it
aint broke - don't fix it).

[Andre Jute]

As it happens, Lidl, at least in Ireland, has the kit I have on sale again, from Thursday through Sunday this week, 35 Euro in a grey plastic box. This time it carries the Lidl "sports" brand, Crivit. Talk of coincidence! -- Andre Jute

[Ian Field]

"Andre Jute" <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:5dd907b9-cc15-49ee...@googlegroups.com...

Maybe they dropped Powerfix because it was 100% pure unadulterated crap!

[thirty-six]

On Apr 20, 4:28 pm, "Ian Field" <gangprobing.al...@ntlworld.com>
wrote:
> "Andre Jute" <fiult...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

Powerfix being their general tool range IIRC, including 3 x 8" pliers
for £4 Actually good enough for what I wanted (wrapping the ties onto
spokes) but I wouldn't expect them to be too conscientious with making
tools that needed to fit parts.

[datakoll]

pliers ? oh my....try grinding quality needlenose into small half round wire pincers

[Ian Field]

> Most definitely not the same kit. My kit is sturdy and is or has been sold
> by many of the most reputable dealers, for instance by both Chainreaction
> and Wiggle, who would reject something as crappy as you describe; the same
> box has also been branded by XTools and others whose names I now don't
> remember. And it definitely is the same kit that Lidl sold; I handled it
> when it was on sale at Lidl. But Lidl sells bicycle tools or gear four
> times a year, so I assume that over time they've sold other kits. I've
> certainly bought some crap at Lidl (stand pump that didn't pump, multitool
> that flopped all over the place, cycling jacket with storm flaps so limp
> they continually caught in the zips, bike computer that died at Drop 1 of
> a light rain, etc). I'm not pretending these tools I bought in Germany are
> brilliant. I bought the box of tools as a fast way to start a toolkit, and
> then as my understanding and skills grew, and my bikes became ever more
> sophisticated, replaced each tool individually with a best quality tool to
> build up really decent toolkit, two in fact, one a minimum kit for
> carrying on the bike in a leather baggie, the other a maximum kit in a
> pilot's aluminium flight case with which I can, theoretically at least, do
> any job on the bike that doesn't involve machining. One of the tools from
> the original box that I've kept, because I haven't found a better one, is
> strangely enough the crank puller.
>
> The Powerfix or Crivit brands don't tell us much: those are just Lidl
> house brands.

Just been in Lidl - they had a couple of Crivit toolsets left over from
Thursday, the picture on the cardboard sleeve shows exactly the same
selection of tools as in the Powerfix set, all clipped into compartments in
the plastic case in exactly the same positions as the Powerfix set.

If there had been some indication that the tools had come from a different
factory, I might have been tempted - as it is, it would have been fun to
watch them shove it where I think they should shove it.

[Ian Field]

"thirty-six" <thirt...@live.co.uk> wrote in message

news:03e18e76-9eaa-4609...@s9g2000vba.googlegroups.com...

I may have been wrong about the sprocket thingy extractor - I went into
Halfrauds and looked at the extractors they sold and bought the one that
looked as if it fit the shallow splines I'd encountered.

It fit the ones I'd already removed and put in the spares box, and the one
in the Powerfix kit looked much like the one I'd rejected in the shop.

That means its not a dodgy tolerances issue, and I now have 2 types of
extractor.

But that doesn't change the fact that the crank puller is undersize and the
chain wrench is untempered mild steel which bent in half first time I used
it.

[Andre Jute]

Maybe there's magic in the different color handles-- red or blue or black... Not that the fellow doing the shoving will find that much consolation! -- AJ

[Ian Field]

"Andre Jute" <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:920f0f28-8cd8-4f24...@googlegroups.com...

They didn't even bother to temper the pressed steel spanners - I've just
spent half hour grinding down a 15mm spanner to fit the flats on a wheel
bearing cone.

Its the right size across the flats, but too thick to fit the depth of the
flats under the locknut.

The pressed steel spanners fell into a box of parts - I didn't bother
fishing them out.

The �69 socket set they had this week looked tempting - but if the quality
is as shite as the Powerfix cycle toolset - no thankyou very much!

[Andre Jute]

On Wednesday, May 8, 2013 8:54:08 PM UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:

> They lLidl's supplier] didn't even bother to temper the pressed steel spanners - I've just

>
> spent half hour grinding down a 15mm spanner to fit the flats on a wheel
>
> bearing cone.
>
>
>
> Its the right size across the flats, but too thick to fit the depth of the
>
> flats under the locknut.
>
>
>
> The pressed steel spanners fell into a box of parts - I didn't bother
>
> fishing them out.
>
>
>
> The £69 socket set they had this week looked tempting - but if the quality
>
> is as shite as the Powerfix cycle toolset - no thankyou very much!

The components on a modern bio are so expensive, it just isn't worth working with doubtful tools even if you will use each tool only once or twice a year.

Andre Jute

[Ian Field]

"Andre Jute" <fiul...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

news:a90f1c1d-6ccb-4e86...@googlegroups.com...

I think Lidl are guilty of misrepresentation - What came in the Powerfix
(now Crivit) bicycle tool set doesn't qualify as tools!

[thirty-six]

On May 9, 3:29 pm, "Ian Field" <gangprobing.al...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
> "Andre Jute" <fiult...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

yes , well they give you a month (or is it 90 days?) to return
anything you decide you'd prefer not to have. Saves them getting into
costly legal proceedings, not that "trading standards" care a stuff.

[Ian Field]

"thirty-six" <thirt...@live.co.uk> wrote in message

news:cf46c777-8b42-4838...@g9g2000vbl.googlegroups.com...

The spoke nipple key works, the chain punch is decidedly dodgy - but useable
with a bit of effort, its really the plastic case that's somewhere to put
the decent tools I've bought since to replace the Lidl crap.

The tool for undoing the sprocket assy probably works - it just isn't the
right sort for all the sprocket carriers I've encountered so far.

[Nate Nagel]

what you want is either a Park brand cone wrench or better yet - a set
of metric "tappet wrenches." Unfortunately they're hard to find -
apparently not many European cars came with OHV (not OHC) engines and
solid lifter camshafts. Fortunately, I found a set at my local
Goodwill. Unfortunately, that helps you... not at all.

I actually lent my Park headset wrench to a mechanic because it was the
right size for a fan clutch on a BMW. It came back usable, which proves
something, I guess. I half expected the thing to come back all mangled
from abuse but I owed the guy a favor so...

I also have a 13mm "tappet wrench" that I made by grinding down the open
end of a cheap combo wrench because I needed one to adjust the sunroof
motor clutch on my old 944 and this was years ago before I'd acquired
the proper tools. No shame in making your own tools when you have to...
adapt, improvise, overcome etc.

Somewhere out there is a beat up old 944 that unlike all the other ones
still on the road has a perfectly functioning sunroof mechanism... but I
digress. If you have one, though, I'd be happy to set it up for you as
I now know that mechanism more intimately than I ever cared to, and can
get it right in a half hour or so with some new drive gears (the usual
failure, and they're readily available)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

[Dan O]

On May 9, 6:51 pm, Nate Nagel <njna...@roosters.net> wrote:
> On 05/08/2013 03:54 PM, Ian Field wrote:
>
>
>
>
>

> > "Andre Jute" <fiult...@yahoo.com> wrote in message

Not sure what you guys are talkign about fixing, but Park seems quite
good for the home garage.

(Of course, I have only bought one or two of their tools new - most
came in the epic deal big bucket o' tools with the workstand and
truing stand and parts and... oh, yeah - the ~mint '87 Stumpjumper
Comp.)

> I actually lent my Park headset wrench to a mechanic because it was the
> right size for a fan clutch on a BMW. It came back usable, which proves
> something, I guess. I half expected the thing to come back all mangled
> from abuse but I owed the guy a favor so...
>

That's the same wrench that goes on the fixed BB cup, right? With a
pedal wrench on the other end? If so - it's tough - I've hammered the
shit out of mine.

[Ian Field]

"Dan O" <danov...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:e7e588d8-d298-4d63...@tz3g2000pbb.googlegroups.com...

The pedal shaft flats are usually 15mm AF, I have a proper drop forged
spanner ground a bit thinner to get between the pedal and crank - I did
another 15mm spanner for the cone spanner needed to be even thinnerer and
wouldn't be strong enough for undoing pedals.

So far, I've never yet bought a made for the job pedal wrench that was
actually up to the job - even when I paid decent money!

[Nate Nagel]

No, it's just a thin flat piece of steel that looks like a great big
cone wrench, not the fancier professional-style one. For my pedals I
did not need a special wrench as my regular combo wrench worked fine so
I didn't buy a pedal wrench. Likewise for the BB cups, I bought the pin
tool but for the other side I think I just used a Crescent wrench (I try
not to buy tools I don't really need, because I have so many of them
already... unless it's a yard sale or a pawn shop that has everything
"priced right." Then I scoop up everything that I think might be useful
someday.)

[Radey Shouman]

Try Hozan: http://www.hozan.co.jp/cycle_e/catalog/C200.html

--

[Ian Field]

"Radey Shouman" <sho...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:87ehde7...@comcast.net...

The ground slimmer spanner I have works just fine without paying loadsamoney
for fancy tools.

[AMuzi]

Second that.
Hozan is easily the best currently produced pedal wrench.

--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

[thirty-six]

On May 10, 7:22 pm, "Ian Field" <gangprobing.al...@ntlworld.com>
wrote:
> "Radey Shouman" <shou...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>
> news:87ehde7...@comcast.net...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Ian Field" <gangprobing.al...@ntlworld.com> writes:
>
> >> "Dan O" <danover...@gmail.com> wrote in message

> >>>> > The �69 socket set they had this week looked tempting - but if the

Cobra are good and inexpensive, available from ceeway the
framebuilder's supplier. The long Cobra cone spanners I bought 25
tears ago also came with hex cutouts for wheel nuts. Not perfect but
handy to have that extra facility. Unfortunately the long type on
offer do not now appear to have that additional function.

[Ian Field]

"thirty-six" <thirt...@live.co.uk> wrote in message

news:89d61ca4-e14c-449f...@k5g2000vbq.googlegroups.com...

>> >>>> > The �69 socket set they had this week looked tempting - but if

The combination spanner I ground slimmer to fit pedal flats fits in the tool
case I carry and also does wheel nuts.

[John B.]

You seem to have an inordinate number of problems with tools. So few
special tools are needed to work on a bicycle that if a standard
wrench (for example) won't fit it is easier to just buy a single
special tool for the purpose. Without looking I probably have 8
special bicycle tools and two - Chain Whip and Pedal wrench - I made
myself. That is not a really expensive investment to make.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Ian Field]

"John B." <johnbs...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:rvmro8l73f48ebpkq...@4ax.com...

It is if you buy the tool set from Lidl - then have to replace each item
with ones that actually work!

[Sir Ridesalot]

Many years ago a bicycle repair book I read had the statement, "A cheap low-quality tool is a luxury no shop can afford." I too have come across the odd tool that seemed to be a bargain for infrequent use but that then failed on its first use.

Cheers

[Ian Field]

>>
>> > You seem to have an inordinate number of problems with tools. So few
>>
>> > special tools are needed to work on a bicycle that if a standard
>>
>> > wrench (for example) won't fit it is easier to just buy a single
>>
>> > special tool for the purpose. Without looking I probably have 8
>>
>> > special bicycle tools and two - Chain Whip and Pedal wrench - I made
>>
>> > myself. That is not a really expensive investment to make.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is if you buy the tool set from Lidl - then have to replace each item
>>
>> with ones that actually work!
>
> Many years ago a bicycle repair book I read had the statement, "A cheap
> low-quality tool is a luxury no shop can afford." I too have come across
> the odd tool that seemed to be a bargain for infrequent use but that then
> failed on its first use.

Tools from Lidl in the past have been "good enough" for the price - the
Powerfix/Crivit bicycle tool set is clearly not fit for purpose, which is in
breach of UK consumer law.

[Dan O]

On May 11, 9:03 am, Sir Ridesalot <i_am_cycle_pat...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> On Saturday, May 11, 2013 11:08:23 AM UTC-4, Ian Field wrote:

> > "John B." <johnbsloc...@gmail.com> wrote in message

>
> >news:rvmro8l73f48ebpkq...@4ax.com...
>
> > > On Fri, 10 May 2013 14:35:20 +0100, "Ian Field"
>

> > > <gangprobing.al...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> > >>"Dan O" <danover...@gmail.com> wrote in message

http://www.janegoodall.org/chimp-central-toolmakers

[Nate Nagel]

That is not only true of bicycles but life as well.

I still have tools of my great-grandfather's that I will use in
preference to newer versions of the same tool (most notably an old
electric scroll saw) - buy quality first and you don't have to buy it
again, at least not in your lifetime.

Sadly, *finding* quality is difficult. In tools there are still some
high end brands but they all have eye-watering prices... but in other
markets e.g. lighting (just had a long discussion about this on another
group) it's a quality race to the bottom because everyone's shopping
only on price and not considering things like CRI etc.

So you could just be like me and buy stuff that was made 20 years ago
but is still known to be good today at yard sales, pawn shops etc...

[Dan O]

On May 11, 3:52 pm, Nate Nagel <njna...@roosters.net> wrote:
> On 05/11/2013 12:03 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
>
> > On Saturday, May 11, 2013 11:08:23 AM UTC-4, Ian Field wrote:

> >> "John B." <johnbsloc...@gmail.com> wrote in message

>
> >>news:rvmro8l73f48ebpkq...@4ax.com...
>
> >>> On Fri, 10 May 2013 14:35:20 +0100, "Ian Field"
>

> >>> <gangprobing.al...@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> "Dan O" <danover...@gmail.com> wrote in message

Agreed - not just tools (though what isn't a tool of some sort... )
Buying used is the way to upgrade tremendously toward the higher end
for those of us who aren't named Rockefeller.

[thirty-six]

On May 11, 5:47 pm, "Ian Field" <gangprobing.al...@ntlworld.com>
wrote:

That might have meant something ten years ago, but I doubt you'll get
anywhere with it today in England.

[Ian Field]

"thirty-six" <thirt...@live.co.uk> wrote in message

news:eef8dff6-94c6-4fd7...@m2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com...

Trouble is; no one uses all the tools all at once, you use one tool and find
its crap but that on its own isn't enough to return the kit.

By the time you eventually discover that nearly every tool in the set is not
fit for purpose - its too late.

TBH, I figured at that price some of the tools would be a bit weak - and I
could replace those with decent ones as & when, but I can count on one hand
the number of parts in the kit that are any good at all!

[Ian Field]

>>
>> Many years ago a bicycle repair book I read had the statement, "A
>> cheap low-quality tool is a luxury no shop can afford." I too have
>> come across the odd tool that seemed to be a bargain for infrequent
>> use but that then failed on its first use.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>
> That is not only true of bicycles but life as well.
>
> I still have tools of my great-grandfather's that I will use in preference
> to newer versions of the same tool (most notably an old electric scroll
> saw) - buy quality first and you don't have to buy it again, at least not
> in your lifetime.
>
> Sadly, *finding* quality is difficult. In tools there are still some high
> end brands but they all have eye-watering prices... but in other markets
> e.g. lighting (just had a long discussion about this on another group)
> it's a quality race to the bottom because everyone's shopping only on
> price and not considering things like CRI etc.
>
> So you could just be like me and buy stuff that was made 20 years ago but
> is still known to be good today at yard sales, pawn shops etc...

If you applied that philosophy to bicycle toolkit, less than 30% would be
any use on modern bikes.

[Nate Nagel]

My bike - the one that I actually ride - was first assembled in 1984, so
not a problem for me :)

[Ian Field]

"Nate Nagel" <njn...@roosters.net> wrote in message
news:kmp84...@news1.newsguy.com...

I have a really ancient one (1960s I think) the headstock needs a complete
overhaul and although I've bought spokes and rim to rebuild the back wheel,
I never got around to taking the parts to the local shop for wheel building.

Now I've got used to 7 speeds, a 3 speed hub with significant friction drag
isn't so appealing.

Despite what I've spent on parts, I'll probably end up getting rid of it on
Freecycle.

[thirty-six]

On May 13, 1:31 pm, "Ian Field" <gangprobing.al...@ntlworld.com>
wrote:
> "Nate Nagel" <njna...@roosters.net> wrote in message

Molybdenum disulphide, where's the problem?

[Ian Field]

"thirty-six" <thirt...@live.co.uk> wrote in message

news:792a802e-6ea6-47ba...@k5g2000vbq.googlegroups.com...

I use that first to treat the metal surfaces and PTFE lube thereafter.

I vaguely remember hearing about Sturmey Archer making a hub with the BSA
brand on it which had needle roller bearings for the planet gears.

Whoever it was told me about it said the bearings didn't make any worthwhile
reduction in drag.