Is CODA really Dia-Compe?
Joe Hair
several of their 'CODA' bike components. I've always thought that my
'CODA' brakes bore a striking resemblance to Dia-Compe's; but it
wasn't until recently that I took a closer look at my bike's
componentry and realized that all the 'CODA' parts seemed to have a
Dia-Compe equivalent. The CODA brake pads look just like Dia-Compe's
Gray Matter pads (only mine are black). The CODA 900M brake levers
look like Dia-Compe SS-5's. The CODA front hub looks like a Dia-Compe
Tsali. The brakes I've already mentioned. I've never seen a
Dia-Compe quick release, but I wouldn't be surprised if it looked an
awful lot like the 'CODA' one on my seatpost.
Does Cannondale have the guys over at Dia-Compe producing 'CODA'
parts for them? I'm confused as to why Cannondale would do this. It
can't cost any less. Hell, It probably costs more. Dia-Compe is a
more recognized brand name than CODA, anyway. Is this just some crazy
marketing guy's idea of how to sell more bikes? Can anybody else shed
some light on this, because I'm curious?
Nelson Loo
>
> Stuff Deleted
>
> Does Cannondale have the guys over at Dia-Compe producing 'CODA'
>parts for them? I'm confused as to why Cannondale would do this. It
>can't cost any less. Hell, It probably costs more. Dia-Compe is a
>more recognized brand name than CODA, anyway. Is this just some crazy
>marketing guy's idea of how to sell more bikes? Can anybody else shed
>some light on this, because I'm curious?
>
Yes, Yes, No, Yes and Yes.
I used to work in the industry as a buyer for one of the then startup
full suspension moutain bike companies. I later managed a shop which
sold Canondales.
I can tell you that having someone else who is already setup to do mass
production on a particular part is much cheaper than doing the R&D to
develop one yourself. Dia Compe/Suntour is the only major manufacturer
who was willing to work with small companies to help develop parts under
their own name. This gave the maker some "custom" parts at a production
price.
If I remember right CODA is an acronym for Cannondale Original Design
Application, or something like that. Yes it's a marketing scheme!
Here's my question to them. If you're going to have someone copy a brake
for you, why use the design that has the hardest to adjust brake pad
assembly in the whole wide world!?!
Nelson
Robert Horvatich
> Here's my question to them. If you're going to have someone copy a brake
> for you, why use the design that has the hardest to adjust brake pad
> assembly in the whole wide world!?!
Because it is very cheap and easy to do it when you are already tooled
for production.
Rob
email: |"You can't take life too seriously,
rho...@tbd.ford.com | you don't get out alive." Bugs Bunny
Sheldon Brown
>It's true: CODA stuff is relabelled Dia-Compe (and Sugino, etc) stuff. The
>secret is out. Cannondale has nothing to do with it- they don't have any
>guys over at Dia-Compe working on the components. They just have them
>manufactured with the CODA name on them.
>
>This is by no means an isolated instance. Do you think Trek designs and
>manufactures all those clothes, handlebars, and lights? How many Ti
>frames are made by Litespeed before rebadging by Dean or Maculu? The bike
>industry is rife with great examples. Cannondale does this for market
>recognition- think just how well designed a bike must be to come with
>brakes, levers, hubs, etc all custom made by the manufacturer. How trick!
Further examples include "Concept" (Lawee/Univega) "Avenir" (WSI/Diamondback)
"Advent" Service/Mongoose. I have heard that Specialized manufactures water
bottles, but that is all that they actually make themselves.
None of this is intended as a criticism of the companies involved. This is
just the way it is in today's bike biz. The vast majority of bicycles on the
market are not even built by the company who puts their name on the down tube.
One of the reasons that some of us remain fascinated with English Raleigh
bikes of the early '60's and earlier is that these were the only bikes made
basically completely in-house. Raleigh had a tight relationship with Brooks
(saddles) and Dunlop (tires). They owned Sturmey-Archer, who made the gear
hubs, and virtually everything else was made in their enormous factory in
Nottingham: spokes, pedals, rims, lugs, tubing, cables, brakes, handlebars,
bottom brackets, hubs, headsets, lights, fenders (sorry, mudguards!)...
I am not sure if they made their own bearing balls and chains, but they had
a level of integration unparalleled in bicycle manufacturing history.
Also, unlike many modern bikes, they were built for the purpose of providing
reliable transportation. Too many bikes now are designed primarily to catch
the customer's eye on the sales floor; what happens to them after they are
purchased is not as central a concern.
Sheldon "Raleigholic" Brown
Newtonville-on-Charles, Massachusetts Bay Colony
+----------------------------------------+
| Yet Britain set the world ablaze, |
| In good King George's glorious days! |
| --W.S. Gilbert |
+----------------------------------------+
Mark Chandler
>In article <46ibdc$a...@NNTP.MsState.Edu>, jh...@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu says...
>>
>>I have one of the higher-end Cannondale Delta-V bikes equipped with
>>several of their 'CODA' bike components. I've always thought that my
>>'CODA' brakes bore a striking resemblance to Dia-Compe's; but it
>>wasn't until recently that I took a closer look at my bike's
>>componentry and realized that all the 'CODA' parts seemed to have a
>>Dia-Compe equivalent. The CODA brake pads look just like Dia-Compe's
>>Gray Matter pads (only mine are black). The CODA 900M brake levers
>>look like Dia-Compe SS-5's. The CODA front hub looks like a Dia-Compe
>>Tsali. The brakes I've already mentioned. I've never seen a
>>Dia-Compe quick release, but I wouldn't be surprised if it looked an
>>awful lot like the 'CODA' one on my seatpost.
>> Does Cannondale have the guys over at Dia-Compe producing 'CODA'
>>parts for them? I'm confused as to why Cannondale would do this. It
>>can't cost any less. Hell, It probably costs more. Dia-Compe is a
>>more recognized brand name than CODA, anyway. Is this just some crazy
>>marketing guy's idea of how to sell more bikes? Can anybody else shed
>>some light on this, because I'm curious?
>>
>Some CODA parts are simply relabelled DiaCompe parts. Their brakes
>are DiaCompe 986s for example. This fact was verified for me at
>Mt. Snow where I asked the Cannondale booth about it. They probably
>want to offer a more complete line of components than simply cranks.
>The CODA brakes were on sale at the race for $10 for a pair
>of cantis including pads.
>I am pretty certain that CODA makes their own cranks though...
The wizzy, Pong-esque models are made by C'dale (including those
with the one-piece rings), but the loweend models (500, 300)
are made by Sugino.
>Dave Blake
>dbl...@bme.jhu.edu
--
Mark Chandler Concord, California m...@crl.com
Randy Gordon-Gilmore
>One of the reasons that some of us remain fascinated with English Raleigh
>bikes of the early '60's and earlier is that these were the only bikes made
>basically completely in-house. Raleigh had a tight relationship with Brooks
>(saddles) and Dunlop (tires). They owned Sturmey-Archer, who made the gear
>hubs, and virtually everything else was made in their enormous factory in
>Nottingham: spokes, pedals, rims, lugs, tubing, cables, brakes, handlebars,
>bottom brackets, hubs, headsets, lights, fenders (sorry, mudguards!)...
>
>I am not sure if they made their own bearing balls and chains, but they had
>a level of integration unparalleled in bicycle manufacturing history.
Raleigh didn't own S-A, surely? I thought that it was not until T.I. (Tube
Industries?) holding company bought Raleigh, Brooks, S-A, Reynolds (tubing)
etc. that they were all under the same ownership. And isn't/wasn't Renold
chain part of that conglomerate?
>Also, unlike many modern bikes, they were built for the purpose of providing
>reliable transportation. Too many bikes now are designed primarily to catch
Very true. But when men were real men, women were real women, and derailleurs
were something neither used, Sturmey-Archer also made some pretty studly club/
racing hubs. I would seriously like to find an ASC ("The only three-speed
fixed hub manufactured in the world today, 10% and 25% decrease from direct
drive") in servicable condition.
Randy Gordon-Gilmore
rgordon...@bio-rad.com
David Kohli
> On Wed, 25 Oct 1995, Nelson Loo wrote:
>
> > Here's my question to them. If you're going to have someone copy a brake
> > for you, why use the design that has the hardest to adjust brake pad
> > assembly in the whole wide world!?!
>
"EZ Set" brakes and displace DC's as the most tedious brakes to set up.
"EZ Set my ass!"
--
David Kohli
dlk...@students.wisc.edu
Madison Wisconsin
Thomas James Sleboda
--
Thomas J. Sleboda
Electronic Packaging Research Center (GT-PRC)
Georgia Tech, Atlanta GA, 30332
dean [the quest for the grail could continue] brunette
: Some CODA parts are simply relabelled DiaCompe parts. Their brakes
: are DiaCompe 986s for example. This fact was verified for me at
: Mt. Snow where I asked the Cannondale booth about it. They probably
: want to offer a more complete line of components than simply cranks.
how can their brakes be DiaCompe 986s when i have two complete
different sets of CODA cantilevers? one set is adjustable with
a 10mm wrench or a hex key, and had a curved canti. the other
is adjustable ONLY by the hex key, and has a canti with a sharp
bend in it.
-d
--
Dean F. Brunette | cyberPAGE(tm) - High Performance Client/Server Pager
Strategic Open Solutions | Software... keep everyone with a pager in touch with
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TIM...@news.delphi.com
deal. For example, Ritchey makes nothing himself- even on his frames he only
brazes the downtube/headtube joint. The rest of the frame is built up by
a custom framebuilder in Japan (I think there was an article about this in
_Bicycle Guide_ some months back). Ritchey seatposts are, I think, made by
Nitto in Japan; tires are probably by Chen Shing in China; etc.
Even the hallowed Sun Tour Superbe Pro parts were relabelled- the brake
levers, for example, were Dia Compe's made on spec for Sun Tour. Cranks were
by Sugino (same people who make Ritchey cranks).
Why not use the expertise of others, who can do it better and cheaper than
you can? The customer gets a better value that way.
Tim
Kristan Roberge
> I can tell you that having someone else who is already setup to do mass
> production on a particular part is much cheaper than doing the R&D to
> develop one yourself. Dia Compe/Suntour is the only major manufacturer
> who was willing to work with small companies to help develop parts under
> their own name. This gave the maker some "custom" parts at a production
> price.
What's this Dia Compe/Suntour stuff?!? Suntour and DiaCompe are
two seperate and distinct companies. Which is why Suntour sourced
their brakes and levers from DiaCompe (as does Ritchey). As far as
I know, the only parts suntour sourced for anyone else are the early
Rhino Derailleurs made for Dean by Suntour. Rhino being the parts
brand offered by Dean. In some cases this 'other divisions' stuff is
actually offering parts designed in house. RaceFace is a division
of Rocky Mountain for example, which makes its own parts (although
I suspect the handlebars are made by someone else, possibly Scott).
> Here's my question to them. If you're going to have someone copy a brake
> for you, why use the design that has the hardest to adjust brake pad
> assembly in the whole wide world!?!
Acutally, I've found the DiaCompe brake pad adjustment rather simple
to understand.
David Kohli
wrote:
> dlk...@students.wisc.edu (David Kohli) wrote:
>
> > Or may be they knew sooner or later Shimano would come along with their
> > "EZ Set" brakes and displace DC's as the most tedious brakes to set up.
> > "EZ Set my ass!"
> >
>
> Oh, you mean with those stupid plastic guides used to set the stradle
> cable carrier length and height on their low-profile brakes?!?
>
No, I wasn't referring to the "Pro Set" system, I was commenting on the
two addittions to all Shimano '96 cantis.
One is a plastic ring with a flat spring in it that is located between the
pad stud and the convex washer that is intended to maintain the relative
position of the pad when the fixing nut is loosened for adjustment. It
doesn't do much at all except make it impossible to guage the pads final
position without completely tightening the nut.
The other suposed improvement is much more evil. That is a set of four
little indents on the convex face of the convex washer which are intended
to reduce slipage between the washer and canti arm when the pad is
suposedly tightened properly (not a problem I have ever experienced). The
actual result of this treatment is to make it virtually impossible to make
small precise adjustments in the height of the pad and toe angle.
After setting three so equipped '96 bikes I began throwing away the the
plastic wring/spring thingies and filing off the four "teeth" on the
convex washers.
With these two impediments removed I have once again been able to become
one with the Shimano bikes I build.
Dan Zacks
Dan Zacks
Timothy J. Lee
|Relabelling products produced by other vendors is common practice and no big
|deal.
But that means that a careful consumer can get a good deal if the
same product with a different label is cheaper. Of course, telling
if the products actually are completely identical is not always
easy.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee tim...@netcom.com
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.
Sheldon Brown
>TIM...@news.delphi.com (TIM...@DELPHI.COM) writes:
>|Relabelling products produced by other vendors is common practice and no big
>|deal.
>
>But that means that a careful consumer can get a good deal if the
>same product with a different label is cheaper. Of course, telling
>if the products actually are completely identical is not always
>easy.
This is true. When we lived in France, I advised my wife to buy a CatEye
headlight. She went to a local shop, they sold her one that "was the same
thing" and looked very much like the CatEye.
However, the reflector was much inferior, and it didn't have stainless
steel contacts like the CatEye. It was a piece of used dogfood.
Sheldon "Euphemism's 'R' Us" Brown
Newtonville, Massachusetts
+--------------------------------------------------------+
| You can fool some of the people all of the time, |
| and those are the ones we're after! --Anon. |
+--------------------------------------------------------+
MO
is a cheaper one which ain't a 986 don't know what it is though.
MO
dilb...@gmail.com
> I have one of the higher-end Cannondale Delta-V bikes equipped with
> several of their 'CODA' bike components. I've always thought that my
> 'CODA' brakes bore a striking resemblance to Dia-Compe's; but it
> wasn't until recently that I took a closer look at my bike's
> componentry and realized that all the 'CODA' parts seemed to have a
> Dia-Compe equivalent. The CODA brake pads look just like Dia-Compe's
> Gray Matter pads (only mine are black). The CODA 900M brake levers
> look like Dia-Compe SS-5's. The CODA front hub looks like a Dia-Compe
> Tsali. The brakes I've already mentioned. I've never seen a
> Dia-Compe quick release, but I wouldn't be surprised if it looked an
> awful lot like the 'CODA' one on my seatpost.
> Does Cannondale have the guys over at Dia-Compe producing 'CODA'
> parts for them? I'm confused as to why Cannondale would do this. It
> can't cost any less. Hell, It probably costs more. Dia-Compe is a
> more recognized brand name than CODA, anyway. Is this just some crazy
> marketing guy's idea of how to sell more bikes? Can anybody else shed
> some light on this, because I'm curious?
James
--
JS
Sir Ridesalot
I've noticed a few very old threads getting replies.
Cheers
avag...@gmail.com
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